Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 177: Where do we go from here?

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1:34Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Women Arsecast on Arseblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman looking back at Sunday's 4-2 defeat away at Manchester City. If it feels like it's been a long time since we've done one of these podcasts after a victory it's because it is because obviously we didn't do one after the Kyrgyz game, which is only one of Arsenal's two victories this season. So it's been literally a month since we've done one of these after a victory. And a bit like last week, that probably means this one's going to be a little bit heavy. We keep promising therapy. I think maybe we've come out the other side of that, maybe into delirium, quite possibly.

2:17But here to kind of pick over the bones, rake over the coals, however you want to phrase it, of Sunday's game. And a bit more besides, I think, as ever, is our co-host Jamie Spanger. Jamie, how are you?

2:29Jamie: Tim, I'm in the fourth stage of grief. Is that grieving? Is that sadness? Is that where I am right now? I've gone past denial, that's for sure. Yeah, I'm past denial. I'm no longer angry. I'm very sad. Daylight savings has ticked over in Australia, so the game was at 2.30am, so you can imagine my state. I since watched it back today, even worse the second time, I may admit. But Tim, I don't really know how to feel anymore. I'm a bit sad. I don't think this is therapy for the listeners or us. I think this is more of a humiliation ritual. But I'm here to serve and we're in this together because, yeah, let's do it.

3:07Yeah, let's start there. Usually we kind of start with the lineups. But I think there is a bit of pretext to this match, really, which is both René Slager's missing the post-match press conference in Paris on Wednesday, which was going to consist of me and Sylvain, basically. I mean, seriously, that is it. And, you know, at the time, it is a little bit kind of confusing. obviously these things happen very quickly and i'd initially said she was too disappointed to do it had some conversations and it was clear that that was actually about anger rather than disappointment uh renee's subsequently said in a friday press press conference and i think spoke very well and very eloquently about how she made the decision to be with her team instead and aaron dantino came out and did the post-match press conference.

4:01I mean, what did you make of, let's say, let's take it from Wednesday night and Renee deciding not to face the media through to her slightly more rallying Friday press conference?

4:13Jamie: Yeah, I think this is a difficult one, Tim. There's a lot to speak about here because I think when we look at football, we like to have a broader conversation. The conversation I deeply believe in is the managers, the people behind the scenes, the players, they are human beings and we go through emotions after results. And I think that's a really, really important element to break into and say, look, like she was obviously angry and we had the penalty call as well and make of that what you will. I've tried to watch a million times over and see what I make of that. So you can understand from a human point of view, why she was upset and why she wanted to be with the team and her players in that, in that circumstance.

4:47Jamie: I think it's a little bit hard for me to look at it impartially because of someone that's been in the media and been in a press conference and been a journalist and a traveling journalist, it's frustrating because at the end of the day, I don't think you or Silvan wanted to be in that press conference either. Like there's a lot, there's a lot from a two Arsenal points of view as well. Like you don't really want to be asking those tough questions. And I, I, I very much doubt that either of you were ready to be piranhas in that instance, but like a part of a manager's job is you have to do the press conference.

5:17Jamie: You have to do the media. Alessia Russo fronted the media and did the broadcast after the game. and she had to speak very rawly and honestly. And obviously she was also having a tough time kind of digesting that result. So I think it's not a good look from Renee's point of view. It's part of the job as a manager. You have to go to that press conference under UEFA rules, but also that's just part and parcel of the game. And I think we're at a point in the women's game as well, Tim, now where we want to look at the game and be like, we don't want to infantilize it. You're going to go through dark patches.

5:45Jamie: You're going to go through really hard slogs. And unfortunately you have to be the one in that position that's going to speak after the game and kind of talk about it. And it's not like you have to go into a deep dive and say everything there is to say. And obviously there's going to be anger, but from a fan's point of view, like from a journalist's point of view, I think she has to be there. From a fan's point of view, I want to hear from the manager after a game. Like we want to see you upset and we want to see you angry. If that's what you're going to deliver, that's okay because we are as well.

6:11Jamie: So I was disappointed that Renee didn't front the media, I think. I don't think it was a great look. And I think as a fan, you're looking at that and you're thinking, where's the light at the end of the tunnel? it's not really there if the manager's not even going to face the problem head on. So I can see both sides to that instance, Tim. I can see why she wasn't there, but I personally think you have to be. It's part of the job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think from my perspective, it's not about the journalists themselves. It's not about me. I was paid to be there, right? The invoice is the only acknowledgement I need personally.

6:44It's about like the word is media, medium. It's about speaking to fans not not necessarily to journalists journalists are just there to to relay that I mean personally I think Aaron is is a perfectly fine person to send out like there are assistant managers and there are assistant managers and this is not a guy who just puts out the cones like he's very heavily involved in game plan tactics coaching from the sidelines and and all of that I think in that moment it obviously made her position look weaker and I'll be honest I hung around in the mix zone because i wondered if she'd resigned and i was trying to i was trying to speak to people um both inside and outside the stadium to like to really bottom out whether that had happened because i thought it might have happened um it quickly became apparent that it hadn't um i but i what i will and and leslie russo it's always so awkward as well like because you ask for players and I think the reason Lesley had to do the post-match broadcast was because I basically asked for her in the mix zone afterwards and that's usually done before full time so at the point that I asked for her we were tuned we might have been 2-1 up and that makes it a very different interview and it's really awkward because you kind of know the players don't want to talk it's all very raw I experienced it as a fan as well it's a bit raw for me so I think Lesley was put up for post-match for broadcast because I'd asked for and it was like let's limit the pain let's like one player is just going to take this and we won't ask anyone else and you know Arsenal were very good they made sure that Lesley spoke to me and I don't think anyone else other than like the broadcast which they had to do so however I did I do think Rene galvanized things quite well in the Friday press conference so for people who don't know haven't heard she asked to start before the question started and she kind of apologized and explained um why she missed it and i thought that went over really well and you know if we're to use social media as a barometer i think broadly most people felt quite galvanized by what she said that you know she wanted to be with the players everything's been super constructive we can go into that a little bit later so i felt quite galvanized coming into it I kind of thought okay and one of the questions I asked her on Friday was you know we were told you were too angry to do the press conference did the players see that did the players see you angry and she said yes and I thought good like good like it's you know this we're in a situation now it requires a little bit of a change of energy so I came into the game Jamie quite galvanized and I had a feeling for us in this game not least because I've watched City closely recently.

9:36I think they're quite open. They give you chances, which we saw in this game. However, the line-up came out. There's been some stability in the line-up recently. I think that's quite deliberate. So we had the same midfield three for three games, the same front three for the last three games, the same full-backs. Lee has been there, Lott has been there twice and Steph once. So quite stable except for the goalkeeper. What did you make of the line-up? And I guess the goalkeeper slight rotation thing that's happening at the moment.

10:11Jamie: Yeah, in terms of the lineup, Tim, I actually wasn't surprised at all. I thought stability is the best thing that Arsenal could have gone for going forward. I also think when you play two WSL games back-to-back against Chelsea and Manchester City, you're almost always going to see a similar pattern because the opposition plays in a similar way. They're two dominant teams who aren't going to sit in the low block. And if you look at the Chelsea game in the first 30 minutes in isolation, it was a great performance. So the front three made sense to me. Playing the higher midfield with Kim in a little bit higher made sense to me as well because it worked.

10:39Jamie: Like, to be honest, Tim, my attention was already on the 60th minute and how that was going to play out. And we'll definitely come into that later, I'm sure, pretty extensively. But, yeah, I wasn't surprised. And I think I was also pleasantly pleased with the lineup. I think that there was a lot of positives that come out of the Chelsea game, like I said. I'm just going to copy and paste what you have said this week in terms of the goalkeeper, Tim. This is not my thought. This is not an original thought. The Annika Borba thing made sense to me. I think you pointed out across social media and also a little bit on the podcast last week in the Chelsea game that she's stronger in the air.

11:10Jamie: City like to enter the box high. They have Bunny Shore as a high nine who's so good with her head but also just airily dominant but can get the ball to her feet. And I think it just made sense. Like Arsenal were going to have to sacrifice a little bit of possession in this game. Mises obviously the stronger goalkeeper in that and Annika Borba is really good at coming out. And she does it a couple of times in this game and it works really well for Arsenal. So, yeah, that is a Tim Stillman thought that's been echoed by Jamie Spanger. However, I was content with the lineup, Tim. Yeah, I was more than content with it.

11:39I think on the goalkeeper rotation thing, assuming I am right about that, I mean, she's played away at City and away at Chelsea. I think it's a safe bet. And I think that makes some sense. I do also think if you have a world-class goalkeeper, you just don't do that. And like the men's team, did they do that with David Raya? No, because he can do it all. and I do think we've been here before perhaps with goalkeepers that have specific attributes but ultimately if you've got one of the best goalkeepers in the world they do it all and that would probably be a better position to be in and maybe Daphna when she comes back is more that goalkeeper but you know these games Jamie the last two games last two times this fixture has been played Arsenal have lost 3-2 and won 4-3 so that tells you what kind of game Man City Arsenal tends to be but the first 30 minutes were quite I wouldn't go as far as to say cagey but reasonably cagey and I think it continued a bit of a theme where Arsenal do generally look okay for the first kind of 30 minutes of games not amazing not pulling up any trees but we look solid, looks like everyone knows what they're doing.

12:55And that's kind of what I got from the first 30 minutes that both teams are kind of feeling one another out.

13:02Jamie: 100%. I think the best thing from the 30 minutes from an Arsenal point of view was our shape and our press. Like we looked really good. Manchester City struggled to play out. And also I think we looked really organized. And a couple of times we did have some early chances and they came from City errors at the back. And I think that comes from the fact that we were really, really disciplined in the press, press, which is good because when you're not seeing a lot of positives in a side, like that is something that I think when you're worried about discipline and you see teams start consistently like that, it gives me a little bit of a hope at the end of the tunnel, Tim, because we are, we are looking really confident when we come out.

13:33Jamie: And I think a lot of that again, comes from Lisa Baum. Like we'll probably speak about her a couple of times, but she gave Niamh Charles hell for, for the 60 minutes that she was on the pitch. But a lot of our errors came from that right side. It was Baumann and Fox doing a really good job. And I think one positive that we can take from this first block is that right side partnership is looking really good. And I think they're getting to know each other a lot better as well. Like when Fox comes down the line, Lisa Baum's doing a lot better to drop into the midfield or drop into more of a nine, kind of like a hybrid 10 role and give Fox that wing.

14:02Jamie: And I think that's something that looks really positive, but at the same time, Fox knows when to invert. So I think that looked a bit clunky in the first couple of weeks because they didn't really know each other yet. We also didn't know what side Baum was going to be playing on and now she's predominantly that right winger, Tim. So I was positive with that because it looked like there was a little bit of getting to know. I think Georgia Stanway did a good job in that kind of triangle as well. And I like Kim Little in the high roll for this first 30 minutes. I think we'll speak about that for the rest of the episode as well.

14:28Jamie: But the press was good and I think City struggled with it. I don't think this is City's strongest lineup as well. I know that Wamsa has become their kind of right back, which has dislodged Kasperi a bit. And then Niamh Charles has kind of left as the only natural left back. And I think that's going to be a really big point of weakness for City. It wasn't in the last 30 minutes, but at this stage it was. and I think, yeah, Arsenal did good to not, we didn't lose our call, but the press was impressive and I think it's the one positive I can take from the first half. Yeah, definitely and I think we've seen City maybe in the Champions League against teams like Bayern and Real Madrid have found that their openness, maybe their slight susceptibility to pressing, that tends to get punished more by those teams, but Arsenal do take the lead and for the second week in a row, you really had the feeling that if Arsenal were going to score it, Lisa Baum was going to have a lot to do with it.

15:18But maybe not in the manner that it actually happens. Russo gets a good cross. Lotta still up from a corner. I don't really know what the point in Arsenal having corners anymore really is. I think we should just give the ball back and restart play with a goal kick. But Lotta still up, heads it on. Lisa Baum kind of brushes it in. I haven't actually, I've seen a lot of suggestion this was offside. And I'm not convinced by that. But anyway, Arsenal take the lead. And I felt coming into the game, Jamie, Arsenal start games reasonably well at the moment. City are slow starters and strong finishers.

15:58And this goal felt pivotal to me in a way that actually proved not to be in the end.

16:06Jamie: Massively. I honestly thought as soon as Arsenal take the lead, City have to go forward. And if anything, City going forward to me felt like a positive thing because I don't think they're actually great at the back. Like, I still think that's always going to be their downfall, and it has been for a couple of seasons. Obviously, last season they ran away, but it was close in the end, in the final weeks because of the fact that they have frailties in the back. So as soon as Arsenal go ahead in this game, I think the more City have to push forward, the more Arsenal can go forward. This goal made me happy because it's Alessia Russo in a high position, and she's really, really good in this first 30 minutes because, in the first half in general, because she's not clogging the midfield.

16:40Jamie: And so many times this season when she's not getting the ball, she's clogging the midfield, she's coming into the 10, but Kim Little playing in a high role makes and forces Alessio Russo to kind of stay in that final third. And she goes and she works hard, but she's picking up the ball in a wide position, which is nice because watching the game back and watching the Chelsea game back, so many times it's quite weird when a wide player has the ball. Because Alessio Russo's in there, for some reason, our play is back right off the goalkeeper. And when the ball falls in the area, it's Russo versus three defenders.

17:08Jamie: She's either getting the ball and turning and smashing it into legs or the defenders are picking up the ball. But as soon as Russo's in the wide area, the players decide, oh, no, we can actually also score. Like we can be strikers, we can flood the area. And this comes from the fact that City are a bit of a shambles. There's too many Arsenal players in the area. Lott is obviously there. Mariana's quite close as well. And then Baum gets the tap in. So that's something that I just think needs to be analysed because the players want to get out of her way for some reason in Russo. And I don't really know why that is because she needs support.

17:38Jamie: So her being the crosser works to Arsenal's advantage. And Baum's just, she reads the ball so well. The goal that she scored against Manchester United is the same. Like she reads the flight of the ball really well when Leah Williamson crosses it in. She does the same thing here. She's there to tap in the remains. She's a player with a high IQ, Tim, and you can't teach that at a young age. You can teach a lot of things, but if a player doesn't have that, then you really struggle to kind of work it into their game. So, yeah, a great goal. But the positive for me was, yes, Alessia, stay high, get the ball, And yeah, the forwards need to be in there.

18:10Jamie: And they were. So yeah, I was happy. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons Lot has picked for this game is because she's probably stronger in the air than Steph Catley. And that matters against City. But we made that matter in City's penalty area. And at this point, you're just thinking, hold this lead for a bit. You know, like really grow into this game with the lead. Start to dictate it. Get through to halftime. and obviously that doesn't happen um a bit of a i think some bad fortune in mariana going down um she blocks a pass and it instantly i was quite near it instantly she she does the the fingers to the bench i've got to come off so she instantly feels something in that hamstring um a minimum that's a pull and three weeks but maybe uh we're yet to find out it could be worse than that but you know so she goes down um I mean to be fair one of the weaknesses in Arsenal's performance to this point had been that she'd lost the ball quite a lot on that left hand side I don't know given the nature of the goal how much difference her being back would have made um Bunny Shaw unfortunately not for the last time in this game holds the ball up well Lauren Hemp comes in deflected in off Emily Fox I mean do you have any issues with anyone or the way Arsenal defended that overall?

19:39Jamie: Initially, when this goal goes in, like if I'm looking at this goal in isolation, I just think like you said misfortune and that's what it is. Like the deflection's rough. I think Lauren Hemp like is a name I'm probably going to say 500 times during this episode, but like that's, that's a strike that comes off Emily Fox really, really, it's an unlucky goal. I don't have a lot of issues with the fact that Bunny Shore is a really, really good player. Like she's a great nine that can hold the ball up well. I'm going to have issues in about 15 minutes when we come on to the next couple of goals and the fact that that keeps happening because I think the centre-backs and there's a lot to say about the midfield as well in this scenario fail to fail to kind of capitalize on the fact that it's a very obvious part of her game like you need to be on her back but this goal in isolation I think the thing that annoys me Tim is it's so deflating like it takes the wind out of our sails because you got 1-0 it's it's a 1-1 just before the stroke of halftime like the players are then going like this is a team low on confidence Tim and when this happens just before halftime against Man City like that's that's tough to swallow and I can imagine that was a hard halftime conversation if it was a team that was coming off five wins it's different it's like okay we brush that goal aside we go again in the second half but yeah this was for me Tim more of a okay this is going to be a different kind of game in the second half.

20:51Yeah and it's Caitlin Ford who comes on for Mariana on the left wing any issues with that changed there was Olivia Smith was on the bench as well I mean those were the two obvious options

21:05Jamie: I guess the Olivia Smith thing's a bit of an interesting one in the last couple weeks which has made me a little bit question if there's a knock if there's not a knock if she's just not being used can I be honest like I think I've said the last couple weeks on this podcast I haven't been the biggest cheerleader for Caitlin Ford but I think the way Arsenal play this opening 45 minutes is the high press. And to be honest, she's probably the winger I'm putting on to replace in this instance. She's going to be the one that's going to be doing the chasing and the tracking back. So yeah, maybe fans won't agree, but I think this is probably the right decision.

21:39Yeah, I'm with you. I think this fixture, City away, you've got to chase back, get into your shape. The other option it gives Arsenal, which they do use later in the game, is that Caitlin can play at fullback as well. So it gives you the option to move her into a more attacking fullback role later on, which Arsenal do, not hugely effectively, it must be said. But halftime, 1-1 can happen. You know, this is going to be a very, very difficult game. And then there's a really pivotal 90 seconds or so in the second half. And we've got a question about this in the second half. I do think Arsenal have had some bad luck as well in the last couple of weeks.

22:22I'm not saying I think that's a factor. I don't think it's the overriding factor, but I think they've had some stinky luck, a little bit like on the equaliser. However, they get a really pivotal 90 seconds quite early in the second half. First of all, Bunny Shaw looks like she's going through one-on-one and takes a heavy touch, and Annika Borba is out, and that doesn't happen that often. I almost felt like that was perhaps too easy for Bunny Shaw. You see that a lot with strikers where a chance can sometimes be too easy and your brain skips ahead a little bit to the celebration and you don't concentrate on the basics.

22:59So they get a let off with that. And just as unlikely as Bunny Shaw messing up a one-on-one like that, Yui Hasegawa giving the ball away in her own area, that doesn't happen very often. But again, to your point, Jamie, that's down to really good pressing as well. You've got kind of, I think it's Kim Little really, really on her. Really, that's a forced error. It's not an unforced error. Russo takes a shot, sticks it in the far corner. And again, my feeling at that point was finally it feels like something's gone for us a little bit here. And we really have something to build on. Russo, such a streaky player sometimes, two goals in two games.

23:42and at this point again, Jamie, I did have that, here we go, it's coming now kind of feeling.

23:48Jamie: The Paris FC goal for Russo was absolutely imperative for her heading into the international break. Like I'm not saying she's not going to score against Man City in this game had she not scored against Paris, but we know she's a confidence player and the fact that this is a confidence goal. This is like you're turning and you're having a ping and it's a fabulous finish. Like Yamashita is a great goalkeeper, but she's not saving this if she wants to. It's a great touch. She knows where the goal is. I just don't think this is a shot that Russo would have taken against Chelsea a week ago. And that's really, really important.

24:17Jamie: And if you're going to take a positive out of this game, it's the fact that that goal goes in and she's heading into a camp with England knowing that she can score again because it is really as simple as that. But I couldn't agree more. Like this is exactly that. It's luck. And I think what would have killed me with that Bunny Shore goal is City's goals are almost always within the area. Like it's when the teams are dropping a back and defending and they're really, really good in tight spaces. so what would have hurt me is they're scoring a goal in transition, it's over the top and their striker is running in on goal.

24:46Jamie: That would have hurt because that's unlike them and that's unlike how they score goals. Bourba does a fantastic job at sweeping, regardless it's a heavy touch. She's there to make the save, which is important because sometimes we've seen her stay back on her line a little bit too much and then, yeah, it's a classy finish, the feeling in this moment and I want to give a massive shout-out to the Arsenal fans because on the broadcast at least it feels like we're in an Emirates Stadium crowd and the fans are incredible And at this stage when Russo's scoring it, I thought, okay, the team's got their flow.

25:13Jamie: I'm still kind of nervous heading into the 60-minute mark and what we're going to do with these substitutes. But, yeah, a great goal and I'm happy for Alessia Russo. But, yeah, we'll talk about what happens next. Yeah, yeah, a good point on the travelling support as well. Two and a half thousand travelling to the game. There's just no team in women's football that comes near that. United might because of the locality and they do have a big fan base, but I'm not even sure they'd bring that many. So Arsenal do get into a 2-1 lead. They do get those fine margins you need in these big games. We know the opposite to Arsenal, City are good at powering up from the bench.

25:54They'd left Kasparaj on the bench, played Bamza instead. At right back, they'd bring Kasparaj on at left back. And if it feels like something went for Arsenal, again a slight margin here going against them bunnyshaw again holds the ball up on the edge of the area really well her intended pass to lauren hemp hits the back lauren hemp's heels and they've just brought on a right footer at left back and the ball falls perfectly onto kirsten casperi's right foot it's a great finish but it's one of those i was kind of behind it the second it dropped to her again your brain skips forward a couple of seconds and you're like i know I know what's happening here.

26:35I know where this ball's going. And again, just so dispiriting having really got that lead again and in what's quite an even game at this point and a bit of a margin goes for us, which just doesn't feel like it's been the case. And I think you could see after this that maybe the players had the same feeling I did, which was, oh no, here we go again.

27:03Jamie: 100%. I think we need to speak about the opposition in this moment as well, because what Andre Yegler does with these three substitutions, it changes the game for Man City. You're bringing on Imam Benny, Mary Fowler and Kirsten Kasparai. To be honest, Benny's a fantastic winger. I don't know enough about her versatility, but in terms of Mary Fowler and Kirsten Kasparai, those are two players that are hybrids. They can play their position, but Kasparai is a fantastic assister. That's what won them the league, I'd say, last season. Like her and Bunny Shaw, they were incredible. But the fact that she can come on in the left and still make an impact, and she does for the remainder of the 30 minutes that she plays.

27:40Jamie: Mary Fowler plays on the right, but she's a player that comes into the midfield. And as soon as those three substitutions are made in the lead up to this goal, Lauren Hemp's in the 10. Yui Hasagawa's playing higher than Lauren Hemp, almost next to Bunny Shaw, and she's a CDM. Kirsten Kasparai's obviously on the left, and they're playing triangles, and it happens almost immediately. And the fact that you can bring on this caliber of players, which obviously they're big names, but they're also players that the team just knows exactly what they have to do. And that's something I think that is so foreign to Arsenal right now.

28:08Jamie: Like you bring on players, not even in their preferred positions and they are coming around and they're playing triangles. They're dropping into spaces. Lauren Hebb knows exactly where she needs to be. She's playing in every other position on the pitch. She then gets the ball. She comes in on the wing and then she gets the touch in for Kaspar. I like City just look like a different outfit as soon as these substitutions are made and you have to kind of credit them and that's why they're the best team in the league and I think you can say a lot about Arsenal in this final 45 minutes but at the same time this is the team to beat and it's the team to beat when your players who are your second string players technically are coming on and performing like that they were playing Dutch football like they were outdoing Rene Slagers at their own game so yeah it's a really really unfortunate one for Arsenal it's like you're putting a pin in a balloon and it's kind of making a looney tune sound like really really sad and slow and long and kind of hilarious for everyone else but us.

28:54Jamie: But yeah, Manchester City look completely different and kudos to Jäglertz. He knew what he had to do when that Russo goal went in. Yeah, I think there's a strong psychological element from here where City, they keep winning games late. They keep coming from behind. They came down from 2-0 against Bayern. They came from behind to beat Liverpool at home. They come from behind to draw with Real Madrid and they've got that confidence of being able to rescue things and Arsenal have got the opposite at the moment and Arsenal subs just seem to confuse things. I think it happens again here. I don't know, like at Stamford Bridge last week and in Paris, I thought the substitutions directly contributed to losing a foothold in the game.

29:39I kind of think maybe taking Georgia Stamway off here, maybe you could say that. I do just feel this was quite a lot. This was about confidence. the second the City equaliser goes in and it doesn't take long before City are in the lead. Lauren Hemp loses Emily Fox on the back post and this goal, there's no misfortune about this. There's less a sense of Wales City are really good. This was just quite a poor goal to concede and I think I could see the light had gone in surmise at this point.

30:12Jamie: Yeah, yeah, this is disappointing. You know the game's over in this stage. you don't really see Arsenal scoring again, especially how the last month and a half has gone. I think the Georgia Stanway substitution actually made a huge difference. Can I be honest? I don't think she was great on the ball in this game. I don't think any of the midfielders were, but there's an instance in the first half when Lotta goes up the left with the ball, loses it, and immediately she turns around and Georgia Stanway's in centre-back, like pointing to Leah Williamson telling her where to be, and she's dropping into that centre-back role.

30:41Jamie: The second Georgia Stanway comes off, I can't actually remember, I've forgotten now if it's the hemp goal or the later goal from Bunny Shore, but it's like Lotta's on the left wing. Again, she's up high and Kyra Cooney crosses just nowhere to be found. She's tracking back and running away from the ball. So I think that the Georgia Stanway one for me is like a massive one. And that's happened a couple of games now where she's come off and our midfield just look easy to run through. So I'm going to credit her and say that I think defensively she knows exactly where she needs to be when we're out of possession.

31:07Jamie: I don't think we look the same defensively when she's off the pitch because she's so good at coming next to Williamson when she needs to. whether it's Steph or whether it's Lotta. So I think that changes the game. And I think this isn't a substitute I would have made. I wouldn't have taken Lisa Baum off regardless of whether she's tired. I don't really care. Like this is, again, your best player on the pitch. I don't care that she's 19. I don't care that you think she needs match fitness. Like time and time again, we get in winning positions and you take your best player off and suddenly there is absolutely no hope going forward.

31:36Jamie: But for me, these are the two best players. Whether Stanway's good on the ball or not defensively and midfield again, a shot the second that she comes off. And yeah, I think that's the, that for me re-watching it, I didn't notice it at 2.30 in the morning when I was going to bang my head through a wall, but I did notice that this afternoon on a fresh, on a fresh mind that I think Stanway is so, so important to that midfield. Yeah. I wonder if one of the things they'll review over the international break is maybe saving Lisa Baum to come on in the last 30 minutes and playing Olivia Smith because Olivia Smith hasn't been making a great impact from the bench I wonder I know I know that might be slightly controversial that uh you know put your one of your best performers on the bench but I do wonder in terms of us continually disintegrating in the final 30 minutes whether it might be good to have a fresh Lisa Belm um during that final 30 minutes and listen Olivia Smith is is perfectly good enough to start football games and it's quite concerning that nearly all of our attackers are losing form at the same time I don't think that's a coincidence and again here we get I guess some Hail Mary substitutions Smilla Holmberg comes on for Emily Fox I think you can understand why that might happen Churchy comes on for Onabarche I you know it's a Hail Mary sub isn't it really it's let's get our best crosser and our best header of the ball there are three number nines on the pitch you know we take the left back off it all feels a little bit desperate.

33:12Arsenal completely lose their structure and cohesion. One of my friends was in the away end. I travelled there and back with him. And when City equalised, he just messaged me and said, Bunny Shaw hasn't even scored her goal yet. So, I mean, look, the fourth goal, we're going for it. We're in a back three, I think. Or maybe Caitlin Ford's the left. I can't honestly tell you what the formation was at the end. It wasn't really clear to me. And it's 4-2 at the end. And again, no Geraldine Reuteler for, what, the sixth time in seven games now? You were talking, Jamie, about people not joining the striker in the penalty area very often.

33:58And that's kind of her specialty. And I think it's, you know, look, Selena Churchy, she's almost like Gem Beattie. re-imagine we stick her on in the 82nd minute put her up front and whack long balls at her when we're desperate I don't think that's a good basis to sign a 26 year old international forward Reutel is not even getting that um you know Friedem Mornem doesn't come on in this game I think there are a lot of concerns over those two summer signings at this point not necessarily about their quality because we haven't really seen them but very very clear that the manager I think is telling us what she thinks.

34:37And that's just a waste of two signings in a season where you have to improve in an attacking sense and two of the attacking players that were brought just can't even really get on the pitch when things are like this.

34:53Jamie: It's really frustrating the way this game ends because you do this in seasons. It's fair enough. Sometimes you have no idea who's playing where and what's going on. this shouldn't be happening every week. Like your players should not be coming on in the 80th minute when you don't really know what role they play every single week and your signings are confused, your like positions don't make sense, your formations. This Hail Mary can't be happening every single week. And like that is the problem at Arsenal right now. Like I've been trying to rack my brain. I still don't have any answers, but like the biggest concern for me right now is players have no idea what their role are.

35:28Jamie: And like whether that is the signings are coming in and not knowing how they fit in the team, whether that's a fact like someone like Freedom Mornham who's been in the squad for so long is being not used because still our most trusted 10 now is no longer Alessio Riso. It's Kim Little. Like she is the starting 10 now who is someone that we said three seasons ago, Tim, oh, will she play another year? Like we were getting nervous that it was the end and now she's our starting player against Chelsea and City in a position that she played 10 years ago. Like this is concerning. This is really, really concerning because these players don't have an identity right now.

36:01Jamie: Alessio Russo's in the 10 and then Steen is in the, in the nine, but then Cersei comes on and it's just so confusing as a fan to watch this and see these players look completely lost. And we saw it against Chelsea where no one really knew where they were playing. And Kim Little was like, am I in the six and Russo was on the wing and everyone was confused, but this is happening week in and week out now when you can't, you, this is not sustainable. We're 10th in the WSL. Like that is ludicrous to think. Like I was pinching myself on Monday morning when I woke up and was like, there is no way we're 10th in the WSL heading into the international break.

36:34Jamie: Last season, at this point, we had scored 12 goals. This season, we've scored four. Like in the opening two games alone, obviously, I think there's actually a lot to be said about the fixture run for us has been very difficult. And we need to speak about that as well. That's fair enough. We also didn't score any goals against Crystal Palace, which is ridiculous. Like last season, it was 4-1 against LCL, 5-1 against West Ham, nine goals. We've scored four. Victoria Pilova has scored more goals than Arsenal women have this season. Like I am really, really struggling to like comprehend what is going on right now, but it just seems to me, Tim, like it's panic.

37:09Jamie: Everyone's panicking. Everyone's confused. And the international break is coming at a great time. But for me, there's not even like a little bit of a skeleton of an answer of what they're going to work on on the international break because, yeah, this is another you've conceded six goals, you've scored four, we're 10th in the WSL. All these players are confused. And Searcy and Reuteler, I feel bad for them. I feel bad for Reuteler. Why are you signing them? What is the, this is your second full season in charge now. Those are the players that you have control over signing. I just think there's an identity loss at Arsenal right now and they need to go into bootcamp.

37:44Jamie: I don't know if anyone's watched Pitch Perfect 2. If that's too niche, there's definitely an audience for that reference though, where like the Bart and Bellas are really confused and they go on a boot camp and they really sort it out. That's a trope in every movie I know. But go and swing for some ropes and get in a bear trap or something. I don't know. Pull them all from the international break, Tim. I'm panicking. Yeah, it's just a waste. And I think it's just a really bad look in recruitment if we're continually signing players who are regretting signing for us. And some of the drawbacks of having this bigger squad as well, I don't really think they've worked out how to use it.

38:21yet and obviously when you don't have the results anyway it contributes to potentially to some bad air if you've got everyone's a bit miserable because we're not winning and then you've got players who aren't playing taylor heinz doesn't make the matchday squad again she's not in the england squad it's a world cup year um i'd say look out for that one in january if that doesn't change um january i think across the league will be busy anyway just because of the world cup and players will kind of move around due to their futures. There's a weird situation with Chloe Kelly at the moment where she's not in the England squad and there's a suggestion she's got a hamstring issue.

39:01But at the same time, Serena Viegman, as Serena tends to be, quite kind of direct and forward, like no football decision, which doesn't feel great, to be honest. But I guess before we close, maybe the longest part one we've ever done um you know i have to ask you about renee's future i had to ask renee about her own future whether she was definitely going to come back after the international break that is not a nice question um to have to ask she went over to the fans at the end i think credit to her for that she was asked about that afterwards and said you know um i didn't know how they'd react but i had to go and say thank you we're not getting them the results and i didn't want to hide um to which fair play but again she said she's definitely not in the mood for resigning the the noises are very much that the club is still behind her I mean do you think it's time for a change at this point

40:00Jamie: ah I hate that we're having this conversation it's so necessary um I just think that the way that we are right now there is no kind of positive that I can say no we just need to get through this rough patch. Like I am struggling to see an instance where we get back from this international break where almost every player in the squad is away on that international break. And we immediately pick up form. And right now, like it's, it's dire. It's not like ride it out. We're fifth. It's, it's ride it out. We're 10th. And there are some real big champions league contenders in the WSL this year. Like Spurs looked great to, to be honest though, Tottenham fans that are not listening.

40:40Jamie: They've not played anyone and they did on the weekend and we saw what happened to them. London City Lioness is a squad that I think have really high ambition and they will this season. But the top half of the WSL table, if we're not getting a win up against Crystal Palace and this is how we're performing against the big teams, like this is a really concerning spot. And right now it's like something has to change. This is not a club that can be finishing sixth or fifth. Or like this is a squad that need to change. And I think with that, like I'm going to be honest, Tim, maybe I'm being reactionary, but I don't see a world in which we continue playing the way we do this season under Renee Slagers and it's going to be okay.

41:15Jamie: And I think the club is too big in stature to say, let's write this season off and trust her again next year. I just think like, if I'm looking at this right now, I'm saying, yeah, I think her future needs to be heavily questioned in the next couple of days because we're not a team that can just say maybe next year, like it's not good enough. Yeah, we've done that too many times and this isn't the first time we've been here under Rene it's been very peak and trough I think um I mean I think whether you make the change now depends on first of all I think you only really do that at this stage of a season if you really think she's lost the players don't think she has yet and if you're confident there's someone else out there um you know maybe they'd be looking at the Damo Svensken and NWSL ending in a month or two, see how the next block goes.

42:12But like Arsenal, they've got to start getting points on the board because they're seven points behind LCL at the moment and they're playing Tottenham, they're playing LCL in the next block. I mean, if they don't win those games, I've stopped looking at the title, that's gone for sure. What we're in is a bun fight for third place and that makes like Tottenham, LCL, that makes them massive games that Arsenal have to win really to correct the table. And if they don't and they wait to make a change and they don't do it, it's probably too late for the top three as well. And that's a really concerning position.

42:50I don't have a strong feeling about whether it should necessarily happen now if the players haven't been lost. however would I bet money on Rene Slagas being in charge of the first game next season no no and I think if Arsenal end this season without a title challenge which they are going to do I mean at that stage at a minimum at that stage you kind of have to say we've got to go in a different direction so it does feel to me pretty inevitable at the moment it's it feels like a case of when and not if which is unfortunate i like renee i like um a lot of the things she's trying to do um i really really want her to succeed not just because i want any arsenal managers to succeed although i do um you know i i like her i like a lot of her ideas but um you know you can't come into the season saying the aim is to win the wsl which it should be and then for that to not be a possibility in the first weekend of October that that's not good enough um it's as simple as that anyway um on that cheery note we'll take a break here we'll come back in part two with your questions we might do slightly fewer this week just because I think we've probably covered quite a few things that people have asked but um nevertheless we'll take a break here and we'll be back with some questions in part two right after this

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46:43Okay, welcome back to part two of the Arsenal Women Ask, cast and askblog.com with Tim Stillman and Jamie Spang are looking back at Sunday's 4-2 defeat away at Manchester City. And I think it's fair to say looking back on more besides because there are some pretty big picture questions here. I'm going to start with this one Jamie from at Becca Darby on Blue Sky who asks I think in the spirit and in the I'd say knowledge at this stage that that there isn't going to be a change during this international break and Becca asks as manager where would you go from here keep consistency of starters which we've seen the last couple of games and playing structure and trust form will come around or do you give it a big shake up and give a chance to players like Reuteler, Churchy, Hines, Holmberg from the start who haven't got much time to show what they can do?

47:39So in the words of Axel Rose, where do we go now?

47:44Jamie: This was the question I had teed up for you first as well. This is existential. Let's get into the real stuff straight away. I think that you have to shake it up. Like I look at this from an angle of our starting lineup is our best lineup and that's completely true, but there's no way going forward without changing that because we can't have 11 players every week. And that's what we have. Like we have 11 players, everyone else do your best. Like it's like the maze runner. I don't really, the hunger games is what I meant to say, not the maze runner. It's like, go in and try your best. May the odds be in your favor.

48:13Jamie: Like I don't, I don't, I don't see a world in which we can be sustainable with a starting 11. And I think it's so disappointing for the players that aren't getting a shoe in right now, because there's no role for them to play and it's not working. Like you can't play 11 players for 90 minutes. So you need to make changes. And I think what's so frustrating is like, we've seen the talent of these players. Taylor Hines is, is one that I think actually irritates me more than even the Sirsian Roy Tiller one, because I think we've seen a reliable player. She's not world-class. She's not your best player on the pitch, but it's almost as if we've signed a name and on a and said, we need to play her every single week.

48:46Jamie: And I'm not saying that she shouldn't be because she's fantastic, but sometimes you've got a natural left-footed left-back who's shown you what she can do defensively, like just put her in, put her in for a game. Like there's no reason why she shouldn't be playing against Crystal Palace or there's no reason why she shouldn't be playing against Paris. Like this is a player I think that's really upsetting because that's probably a future gone at a club where she can have a role. And that's what irritates me when you look at your Chelsea's and you look at your Man City's, like there's a lot of rotation, especially in those fullback roles.

49:14Jamie: Like Kirsten Kasper, I was other than Bunny, other than Bunny Shaw, their best player last season. She's not starting because they've signed Niamh Charles and who's I would say a significantly less talented player than Kaspar but she's still there to play a role and it's the same it's the same thing with Chelsea like they've got a lot of heavy rotation when they're signing players and I think that that's that's frustrating to me like there's a lot of players here that can play a role so I'm saying shake it up like if anything you have to throw a Hail Mary but you may as well do it with system like stop doing it when we're losing games let's start seeing what we can do and it's like it kind of baffles me Tim because I'm like what is the tactics during the week are we are we watching the video and like are we doing the analysis because okay this isn't working what can work let's look at the players that can can make a difference here so I understand with the do we kind of operate under more structure no the structure is not working it's time to not just completely change the starting 11 but look at what is what you how do you want to play and then therefore what players fit into that but how do you want to play in stages and that's something that I think Rene needs to re-find in herself because that discovery was the best part of the interim period was how does she manage games?

50:18Jamie: She was so good at that. And I always look back at the Real Madrid game when we came back at the Emirates. That was, she was problem solving on the go and she's no longer doing that. So Becca, I am with you. Great question, but I'm shaking it up. I'm saying if the manager's the same, then the squad needs to be reintroduced and maybe that won't happen under Rene, but it needs to start happening. Yeah, fair enough. For me, it's about sorting out the substitutions. That's where everything kind of falls apart. Do you have a question? Yeah, this one is from Dickie Byrne. This is a midfield question.

50:54Jamie: Is Kim playing the last three games a clear indication that Rene is sticking with trusted players over creating new partnerships and dynamics with this team, but is that detrimental to the progression of the squad? Yeah, it probably is. And that's the thing. and this is similar really to Becker's question and the answer to that is Rene's in the washing machine here. That's where there aren't clear answers. Going back to Becker's question, for example, if you keep the team the same and it doesn't work, that's stasis, that's not having ideas. If you change it up and it doesn't work, that's confusion and throwing things and hoping they stick.

51:37It's just so difficult and it's the same with the midfield. like how far can we or do we look to the future at this stage in that kind of phasing process I don't think we can afford to at the moment because we need results and if you look at like Manchester United for example and I'm not necessarily kind of vouching for what they've done or what they're doing at the moment but they got into a really sticky patch and Ava Ollid is basically thrown out what she really wants them to do long term like they really nick a dirty ugly win against liverpool they play long none of the stuff she really wants to do in the long term but i think she's prioritized okay let's go back to like what these players know let's get some results but that that still doesn't necessarily justify that approach because then you're just delaying the kind of but at some point i want them to play my football and when do i do that and have i lost the players in doing this like because i've got to try to build the belief in what i want them to do and does sacrificing that in the short term impact that and that's exactly the same with this with arsenal and kim it's just like um you know particularly with her playing kind of higher up as a number 10 it's like it's like we we really do need our pillars at the moment to try and like get a foot on the mountain but at the same time yes that does compromise the the long term i do think perhaps there is a value in that sense in her playing the number 10 because she's kind of coming away from where we used to her as like a stabilizer at the base of the midfield and let's face it the number 10 position has been a mess for years now nobody's ever claimed that so it's not like she's taking someone's role there because no one's had it for years no one has had that role since like probably Jordan Nobbs um we're probably going back that far like Viv played there and I don't think that was amazing like it's a very long-term problem so maybe you can say actually her playing number 10 kind of takes her away from the area that she's been in I do think Georgia Stanway and Kyra Cooney Cross is one of the few like really kind of positive points out of the last couple of weeks being able to play that kind of role at the same time has that contributed to Arsenal being a little bit easier to run through in recent games like against Paris and Man City particularly when we start to take players off in midfield so yeah I think we're just we're fully in the washing machine and for me it's just about results beat Birmingham beat Birmingham if it's 1-0 or 2-0 and it's a bit you remember when we beat Brighton last season off the back of a off the back of a dodgy spell and we beat them 1-0 and it wasn't amazing and we probably saw a lot of similar issues to what we'd seen but we got the points on the board and we kind of went from there I feel like so much of this is about confidence as well and just by hook or by crook I think results is the only thing I think we've got to get the results first and then kind of think about this stuff afterwards to be honest sorry that was kind of a response to both Becca and Dick at the same time but I think they were like quite similar questions I'm going to pose this one because I think it gives a slightly different perspective which I think is always valuable and bear with me because it's is from Helen M at HXM829.

55:24And I completely sympathize and empathize with Helen because it's kind of long and rambly, but we're all in long and rambly kind of territory here. Regarding Reuter and Churchy getting limited minutes, do you think the difficult start contributed to this with René wanting to play it safe with established players? And could it be like a Cooney Cross situation last season? She was struggling for minutes, but now she's a nailed on starter but a broader perspective question are we catastrophizing we won away at Brighton historically a difficult game for us Rene arguably coached a win against Palace but our strikers forgot how to shoot United was a low block we still scored a goal but had a stupid individual defensive error Kerger was a low block we did scrape the win and since then we've had three hard games on the bounce where stupid individual errors have cost us.

56:19And then we've played away at City and away at Chelsea. My point being, yes, René has made some questionable choices, but I think there is an element of a perfect storm of shite all coming at once and it's been hard to stop the slide. So how much is on René and how much is on the universe just dumping a steaming pile on us?

56:40Jamie: That is fantastic. Let's get Helen on the pod. let's add a third co-host to the mix. Starting with the questions about Cersei and Roy Tiller. They weren't in the match day squad in the first game against Brighton. And we kind of said, there's a lot of players. I personally think if like two of your biggest signings of the summer window in a relatively non window, other than Georgia Stanway, should be in your squad immediately. Otherwise, why are you signing squad players? And I think that's another, that's another issue that we've always had. We're signing squad players. We're not signing world-class players.

57:15Jamie: We're not signing game changes. They're not raising the ceiling. If you're signing two players and they're not in your first matchday squad, they're not exactly making a statement. You win against Brighton, they're still not in your matchday squad. And then you don't win again. And then it's, they're still not there. Like I am, yeah, I don't think that that's a case of like, give them time. I think that's the case of these are two players that Rene doesn't even think are going to make an impact off the bench and they're your big summer signings. And that irritates me. In terms of the universe, I think like I mentioned earlier, it's been a really, really tough fixture list, 100%.

57:46Jamie: Like I can understand you play really like it's a dense fixture before the first international break. Some teams land on their feet, a.k.a. Manchester City, and Chelsea had a really early scare on match day one at the bridge against Villa, but they recovered. We're not recovering and we won the first game and I think that that's not good. Drawing to Palace, had that happened when they first came up two seasons ago, it didn't. We smashed them. I don't think that this is a case of Arsenal should be saying this is a hard fixture list. Are we kind of being drowned in the misery? I do think, yes, that's an element of it.

58:23Jamie: And you also need to look at it and say, okay, we lost the City away last season. These are results. The Chelsea one is difficult. It was 1-0. We beat them last season at the bridge, but that's difficult. So there is a part of me that's like these points will be made up. as other teams then have to go and play Chelsea and Man City, they have to play each other. Like they've also, they've not had the fixture list that we've had. So I can understand. I don't think the gap is always going to look this big and this drastic, but for me, that's not the problem. It's not the, it's not the results. It's the nature in which we're losing and the way that we're playing.

58:55Jamie: That is really, really making me stressed. Like I understand kind of giving them a little bit of a let off, but I think a lot of it is on the manager. Like the way that we're playing is on the manager. The recruitment is on the manager. There's so much to be said about the fact that the guidance in the back rooms isn't enough and the fact that we're entering the market and not being as ambitious as our counterparts in the league title races is a massive thing as well. But for me right now, it's the way we're losing it. We're lacking identity. I'm like, I'm beating a dead horse here. The horse is not even dead.

59:23Jamie: It's like ashes. But I just think the way that we're losing is pretty torrid. And yes, I do think we'll make up those points. But the Man United one was unforgivable for me as well, because last season they were kind of scraping results. But this season they had come off the back of two drastic losses and they looked really good against us. And I thought this is a time for us to like show who we are. And I don't fall for the argument that's like Man United were always going to be tighter against us. And they were and they did a really good job at that. But Arsenal still shouldn't be losing. If you look at these two squads against each other, it's absolutely unforgivable that we didn't come away with three points.

59:56Jamie: The Palace one is unforgivable. We have some of the best people in the world in the women's game on paper and they can't score against a newly promoted team who have since been quite pathetic in the WSL. So, yeah, I can understand the empathy side of it, but for me it's the nature in which we're losing is we're really, really blind right now in our direction, and I think that that is what is beating me up rather than the results. Yeah, I think there's truth in what Helen says. I think everything she says in the question is kind of true. At the same time, and, you know, you can say, look, we've got our two hardest fixtures are out of the way now but like no one wants to hear that because we've come into the season expressly saying we we want to win the league and we're talking like a mid-table team you know like oh well Chelsea and Man City are like you want to win the league those are games you you go and win or you get results like you don't go oh well we had narrow defeats in those two games so they're out of the way now um you know um so I I do I do think there's an element of that I do you know I did the Guardian pod this morning and obviously you you look more widely at the WSL and one of the conversations we had was actually the table feels quite false at the moment because like for example LCL who do look really impressive don't get me wrong they haven't played United, Chelsea or Arsenal yet although how difficult is a game against Arsenal at the moment like Everton as well like they're up in fifth but they've played all the newly promoted teams and they've only scored four goals like us and you know what I mean like I think there's a quite a bit of false positioning but I think what we need to be unfortunately looking at is that City and Chelsea are over the hills and far away and we've got to be looking at LCL that's what that's who and what we're looking at I think at the moment um and yeah uh I understand why people aren't excited about that.

1:01:59Do you have a question? Let's do one more each. I do.

1:02:03Jamie: This one's an interesting one. This is from Joe Lewis-Monte at Jolo Moco. Do you think it could be true that this is easily the deepest squad of talent we've ever had, but not necessarily the best team we've ever had? From last season, is a non-left-footed left back helping us more? Is splitting Kim and Mariona's partnership an improvement? And is losing your best presser and creator and big moments wide forward for a 19 year old a definite or at least big enough improvement to the attack that felt like it most had room to improve as long as it has been the case we were better off signing nobody except two or three top class ceiling raising forwards so I guess yeah we have a lot of players but are we the best we've ever been yeah I think what Joe's getting at here is what did we I mean it doesn't look like we raised the ceiling at the moment but it feels like the kind of intention was to to raise the floor rather than the ceiling and i watched man city real madrid on thursday night and like real madrid had uh schrader and linda kaisado and man city had bunny shore and lauren hemp and i was looking at that going you know it was like yeah it doesn't feel like we have individuals on that level I think Russo on a good day definitely kind of comes into that.

1:03:20Lisa Baum looks like she can. Olivia Smith looks like she can, but they're both quite young. I'm definitely with Joe here. I'd have preferred, you know, perhaps like Lisa Baum, your young project signing, right? Definitely do that. And then with a view to perhaps Baum and Smith being your future, rather than signing Reutler and Churchill, I'd rather have just spent some big money on someone like Schrader. or someone like that or um who else went this summer um i'm trying to um oh who else which other player am i thinking of who moved this summer um uh salma that's it like do you just go there and just go rather than sign two players who frankly we're not really going to use do we just spend the money on one player who's going to play most games and really lift us and And yeah, I think in attack, you should always do that.

1:04:16Attack is such a crucial position, generating chance. You can't go anywhere as a team without that. And you look at Manchester City at the moment. I think if you analyse Manchester City with a cold tactical head, there are issues there. But they've got a brilliant attack and they score loads of goals. And so a lot of them, frankly, don't matter. or they matter a lot less. Ultimately, tactically, I think you can be an amazing structured team. I'm not saying we are at the moment, we're not. You can be an amazingly structured team, but if you haven't got that player who sticks the ball in the top corner, it just means less.

1:04:59And that's why attackers go for more money, because they win you games. And I think a lot of our low block issues are personnel issues that we don't have that player. I do think Chelsea have got something similar, by the way. Chelsea had 21 shots against West Ham. Three of them were on target. They all went in. But I think that that's going to trip them up. And I think Man City are going to win the league again, largely because they have Bunny Shaw. You know, and I don't think Chelsea or Arsenal really have that player. Let's do one more. And this is more of a tactical question. And I like this because I hadn't really thought of this myself.

1:05:38but it's from at ndmw29. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Kim and Mariana being moved up a line with KCC and Stanway preferred at the base of midfield. Even if this may be a contributing factor to the team's short-term struggles, have you seen enough promise to justify committing to this double pivot as a look for the future? So it's a really interesting thought. I hadn't really thought of. You've got Mariana kind of playing on the left wing but really you've got Mariana and Kim Little as dual 10s at the moment with Stanway and Cooney Cross behind them. And I do think that's contributing a little bit.

1:06:17But do you see a future in that?

1:06:20Jamie: I think this is a really interesting question. If we had come into this episode off the back of a few wins, I think you're looking at this as, oh, really, really good because Rene Sagers is trusting Cairo Cooney Cross in the pivot. Like there's the future. Instead, we're looking at it because we're not scoring goals and we look really lackluster going forward as Kim Little is the preferred 10. And I am a victim of that. I'm looking at that and being like, who are the attackers that we want to play? We don't have any. Rather than had we been winning games, I think we're a lot more positive in this and like, okay, there's a younger CDM in the mix there.

1:06:52Jamie: The pivot is a look towards the future and this is a really good succession plan. And maybe as fans, we are losing sight of that a little bit because maybe that is the thinking. It's not necessarily who's going to do best going forward. It's okay, let's kind of regress the age in the defensive midfield pivot. And that's really positive. And I really like this point from this question because maybe we need to kind of look at it from that angle. But at the same time, I think when you look at Friedemann, I'm not getting any minutes. Roy Tiller not getting any minutes at all. It is a case of Kim Little and Alessi Russo are still the preferred midfield 10s.

1:07:23Jamie: I don't think it's necessarily, oh, let's really progress this pivot. However, I do think that that is a succession plan. And I'm excited by it. Like I said, I think Stanway has a lot of promise in the CDM. I think it's interesting looking at fan reaction after a loss because I think players always get kind of blamed and new signings are obviously the ones under the microscope. And when you have someone as excellent as Lisa Baum and this exciting young forward, you then look at the other signing in Stanway and kind of say, you're an experienced head. Why aren't you saving us like she is? I think Stanway's done a really competent job and I'm praising her for this block because of her defensive efforts.

1:07:57Jamie: And I think that that pivot is one that progresses the ball really well. They both have a really good long pass. defensively, I think it's a lot more sound than what we've had in the past. And in transition, I think that's going to be helpful for us. The centre-backs are something I don't think we've spoken about enough. I'm still concerned about that. Like we've not paid any attention to them because of how bad we've been in general, but that's still not working for us at all. Leah and Lothman don't go together, do they? I think they're too similar, to be honest. Like they're too similar. They don't work well together.

1:08:24Jamie: Steph is not good enough anymore. Like there is so many holes in those centre-back positions right now. And I think Leah's overcompensating for Lota because they're so similar and I think they get confused. So then you lose Leah Williamson in the way that she's so good at passing the ball because she thinks she has to drop back and be more defensively conservative. So like to ramble on about an area we're not even speaking about, I think that yes, the pivot is something I'm excited by. I'm still really, really concerned about the midfield going forward because of the fact that we don't have a 10 that Renee trusts and I don't think it's working.

1:08:56Jamie: Kim will work in the 10, but right now results-based, like it's not actually getting us results. It'd be different if we're scraping points. So I'm going to answer that question a really, really broad way and say I'm excited for the Chiron-Stanway pivot. I think that there's a lot of promise there, but I think the liabilities around them are still too many and the gap in quality is still there. So yes and no. Yeah, it's difficult to consider these things in isolation, isn't it? Because there's just such an overall picture around it that's affecting all players. Like the idea that players just lose form exactly the same time just doesn't wash with me.

1:09:33That means that there's something a lot wider and that, you know, this kind of overhaul, this rethink of the team, which did have to happen, it's just not burrowing any parsnips at the moment. And Rene is going to have to, and the staff are going to have to think very, very carefully about what they stick with and what they don't in the kind of coming weeks and months. And we will talk about all of that in the coming weeks and months. I'm going to level with you. We are not going to do a podcast during the international break because I think everyone needs the time off, us included. And I don't think there'll be any appetite from it from anyone for us to do anything during the international break.

1:10:16So I can say very firmly, we will talk to you after the Birmingham City game, after the international break. and in the intervening time, I think we will all just forget that any of this is happening. You know, perhaps just do something very, very different. My wife and my sister have gone to Dusseldorf this week to go and see the Backstreet Boys. And to be honest, I wish I'd have gone with them. That might have been a nice thing to do to get my mind off of all of this. But yeah, personally, I'll do the newsletter, but going to take a little bit of time off. It's been a bit heavy the last few weeks.

1:10:55But again, I said this last week, if you were listening to this one, well done. You're one of the soldiers. And hopefully next time we talk to you, it will be after a win. But Jamie, thanks so much as ever. And hopefully the next one is not therapy again.

1:11:13Jamie: Thank you, Tim. Thank you, listeners. Go hug a loved one, have a pint, cup of tea, go for a walk, whatever makes you happy. just remember there's there's meaning to life outside of football i'm telling myself that every every day it's like i look in the mirror and say it so we're all going to be okay um i'm glad you don't have to hear my voice for a little while i don't want to hear my voice anymore yeah go and listen to the backstreet boys or something um anyway um yeah um we will be back uh after the birmingham game thank you so much and we'll speak to you again very soon

1:11:50Thank you.