Arsenal Women Arsecast Episode 179: Gunners earn their spurs

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1:34Hello and welcome to the Ask the Women, Ask Ask and Askblog.com with me your host Tim Stillman and ladies and gentlemen I appreciate that this might be the first time some of you are listening in six weeks or so, for which we don't really blame you. But sound the klaxon. Arsenal have won a football game and they've won a football game in the WSL. And this is a momentous occasion. And I think that was reflected in the celebrations at the end. And I have to say the last few weeks, rather, the post-match press conferences have been difficult and annoying. and you know the podcasts haven't been roses and sunshine either so this one feels like uh especially like a weight lifted and here to talk with us about the lifting of that weight at least for now as ever as our co-host jamie spanger jamie we won a game it happened i thought it

2:35Jamie: might never happen again we are so back our north london neighbors doing us a favor our little sibling always helping us out dr tottenham we'll see you now uh tim we're back there's a smile on my face uh we'll talk about the game but the result is enough to to have me grinning so i'm excited for this one for the first time in a long time tim i do love your company but not that much yeah yeah and actually in terms of like um the game the events the tactics and all that i don't think there's an awful lot to say in this game i think this really was just a case of getting the result um but before we kick off in earnest i'm just going to a bit of a health warning audio wise very very windy in the uk at the moment and where i record is near my porch and we have a dehumidifier and when it gets really windy it rattles a little bit so you might get a little rattle in the background at some points that's what that is there's nothing i can do about it that's kind of what a dehumidifier is supposed to do.

3:36It's supposed to let a little bit of air in and we are kind of expecting monsoon conditions in London at any time now as we saw yesterday. So you might hear some weather-related kind of howling and whatnot in the background. But that aside, Jamie, let's start with the starting lineup for this game. So Arsenal had a week to, well, six days to prepare for this game, a full training week for the first time in a little while. And this felt like a very back-to-basics kind of starting line-up to me. So Steph Catley came in for Lotta Wubamoy. Taylor Hines came in for Onabadje. That's two right-footers out and two left-footers in, in the left side of defence.

4:22I also think Onabadje and Lotta Wubamoy, neither of them covered themselves in glory with the Birmingham goal last week. And then a very interesting selection, which I don't think many of us foresaw, was, well, Russo in the 10. I think we all saw that coming. But Olivia Smith up front, Kaitlin Ford starting on the left wing. What was your thinking when the lineup dropped?

4:44Jamie: I was excited, Tim, because you're right. It is a back-to-base six lineup. But I also think Renee had no choice but to rotate in this game. She had absolutely no choice. There had to be risks, had to be taken. Taylor Hines in left back was the bit I was most excited about. I think I loosely mentioned it on the podcast last week. Like we're isolating a player that really, she was phenomenal for Liverpool. Don't get me wrong. Like a lot of people are hyping her up, obviously a vice captain there, but she came to Arsenal and we didn't really know what her starting position was, but we saw a lot of really reliable performances from her last season.

5:13Jamie: And it felt like Arsenal have been crying out for a player like that. That's not fancy. She's not going to do crazy things in the left back position, but she's going to be, she's going to consolidate the defense and she's going to play a role. And she's always been trustworthy at Arsenal to do that. I can't really think of a Taylor Hines performance that's let us down. So that was one that was exciting, not only because of, you know, consolidating the defense, but she's a left footer, Tim. We're crying out for that and we're crying out for that just output. And there's only so much we can do when Steph Catley's in there as well.

5:40Jamie: I was really pleased to see Steph start in the centre-back position. Lota, I don't think, yeah, like you said, she didn't play great last week, but we needed that because of the way that Tottenham press. They're very, very aggressive up front and you need a quick outlet. You need to be able to move the ball on and having a left foot is important. So those are the two I was excited about. But Caitlin Ford, historically, I think it's so easy for me to say, oh, I saw this. I didn't. I just think she's always been very good against Tottenham. She scored the most goals against like a quarter of her WSL goals have been against Spurs.

6:06Jamie: So that's a player that knows how to play an off London derby. And also when you're going to be playing against a team that are fast on the transition, you kind of need a winger that's just going to get back and defend. And that's what Caitlin Ford does. The Olivia Smith one was exciting. I didn't know how this was going to work out. I didn't know what we were going to see from it. But again, I was like, Renee has to take a risk. And that's what it seemed she was doing. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really good point about Tottenham pressing as well and just having players who perhaps aren't shifting the ball from foot to foot and getting a kind of swift outlet.

6:39And I didn't think of that point on Caitlin Ford either, that she tends to score quite a bit against Tottenham. I felt, I'm with you, I didn't predict that it was going to happen. But when it did, it made a lot of sense because it's a North London derby. It was raining a storm. We didn't have Mariana or Kim Little and Tottenham press hugely aggressively. This was never going to be a pretty game. This was always going to be. Lots of fouls from Tottenham as well. Lots of pulling shirts after the ball was gone. They wanted to take this game to the street, I'd say, a little bit. make it physical, make it very demanding, which I understand because Arsenal are very low on confidence and that's a part of Tottenham's game anyway.

7:28And if you're going to have a scrappy game, then I think you want Caitlin Ford because she scraps with the best of them, really, and she presses and she doesn't mind the collisions either. And there were clearly going to be a lot of collisions in this game. But yeah, Olivia Smith up front. Interesting, interesting. I think that perhaps says something about where Steena Blackstenius' form is as well. But Olivia Smith, she's also an aggressive player. She also doesn't mind physical contact. She's good in the duels, perhaps better than Steena. I think this was a team, Jamie, that was there to fight, basically, or that understood that this was going to be a fight at the very least.

8:09So I liked a lot of it. I felt it simplified things for the players. we'll talk later we've got lots of questions about it about like how much is this a way forward long term and I don't know the answer to that at the moment but Arsenal are not in a position to think about the long term at the moment they had to get the result and that was the end of it and for me that just meant you know simply the stuff we've been talking about simplify it just get the stabilizers on for a couple of weeks kind of what Man United have done under Ava Ollid a little bit They've halted things a little bit, got some results, and they'll go from there.

8:46Nevertheless, early on, I said before the game, I wasn't sure if Spurs would adapt their approach and low block it. They had conceded 12 goals in their previous two games, but they did and they didn't. They pressed very aggressively, but once two or three seconds had passed, they got into a low block. But I didn't like the first 10 to 15 minutes because I felt Arsenal looked nervous. There were lots of turnovers in possession. I watched it back last night, Jamie, because particularly with North London derbies, I'm so emotionally involved that I'm very harsh. But I watched it back and I was very enthused to hear Jilly Flaherty's commentary because she was just saying it on the BBC in the UK because she was just saying all the stuff I was thinking at the time where passes were being turned over and I felt Arsenal definitely looked nervous that first 10, 15 minutes.

9:44Jamie: Yeah, it was frightening to be honest. I think obviously we've been haunted by the last couple of weeks in terms of sloppiness on the ball, time to get rid of the ball as well. And I think that evolves across the 90 minutes drastically. But in the first 10 minutes, we were, yeah, it didn't look good. It didn't look good. I think Lisa Baum was a really energetic player and her hunger to get the ball is really, really impressive and vital to this Arsenal team. But in saying so, I think often she can get quite excited at the start of the game and she turns the ball over a couple of times and we look a little bit shaky through the midfield in transition.

10:15Jamie: And I think that this midfield partnership and the three of them have actually played together a lot now. So it is working a little bit. But then when you've got rotating fullbacks and centrebacks, it's kind of hard because then you're in a position where Stanway and Kyra Kuni Kross are the lowest midfielders at the base. But then they don't really know where they're dropping because Steph Catley plays differently to Lotto Obanmoy does. And I think this was like a teething period in the first 10 minutes where no one really knew which zone they should be in and how to kind of manage the press. And I think Spurs did a good job at being aggressive.

10:44Jamie: I don't think they were clinical and I don't think they looked like a better side than Arsenal. They just looked like a side that have been playing the same system for the last seven, eight games and the players are hardly rotated. So, yeah, it was nothing more than I think nerves and adjustment, but I think there is a lot to be said about when the positions around those midfielders change. sometimes we still look a little bit vulnerable in the middle third. Yeah, definitely. I don't have that same feeling of security. And I do think missing Kim and Mariana, I think they organised very well. Not perfect, but I mean, Arsenal had the best defensive record, all the best defensive statistics in the WSL last season, and those two played nearly every game together.

11:25And the only time that dipped was when Kim Little got injured. so we're missing Kim I think in terms of that sense of organisation we got a question about that in the second half but then Spurs take the lead and it comes from a turnover again giving up the ball under no pressure which was especially annoying because there were lots of times we were under lots of pressure on the ball so it's like definitely don't give it away when you're under no pressure because that's not happening very often there's a misplaced pass, Tottenham counter they get a corner and then Tamberg scores the header. I mean, I guess I haven't looked in technical detail at the defending of the set piece, but there were like three players around Tamberg and she wins the header.

12:12And to me, that just speaks to a hunger, I think, to get the ball that probably just wasn't quite there, whether it's down to nerves or low confidence from the Arsenal players in that moment.

12:23Jamie: Definitely. I also think there's something to be said that we're just horrible at set pieces, like defending them and attacking them. It's just, it's the weakest part of our game right now. And that's something that we know, like watching the men's team, obviously it's completely different because there's so many aerial threats. The crosses of the ball are some of the best in the world. However, there's, there's no chance where Arsenal have a corner or defending a corner where I ever feel security or hope on the other side. So that's something that I think is frustrating. With the Tambor goal, this is a really impressive striker.

12:50Jamie: Like this player is a really, really exciting prospect for Spurs and they got her at a very good time when she was coming back from an injury. So her market value wasn't very high. And she came in and hit the ground running last season for Spurs. And this is like her first full season where she's that upfront presence. And this is just the best run as a forward. Like she's attacked the ball. She doesn't stop moving. Her momentum drives her forward. Like this is brilliant from the Spurs player. However, I couldn't agree more like Arsenal is static in this corner. And it's funny because it looks like, like obviously it's Pilova and Vinberg on the short corner and it looks like there's going to be a lot of movement to read that play from the Spurs team they look like they're going to be moving inside the box and the Arsenal players don't really pick up on that and Tamburg is their aerial threat that's the player you need to be following and I think when you've got a player just in terms of physics and football in general you've got a player her momentum's running towards that header and three Arsenal players standing there kind of chasing the ball backwards like that's a great finish but it's it's lacklustre and offending and I think my feeling in this moment Tim was oh my god it's happening again it's that grit it's that like determination and the hunger for the ball that we've been crying out for that we've not been seeing it's haunting us again so yeah this was frustrating I sighed very deeply but yeah not good and I think definitely regardless of the positive result there's a lot to be unpacked in terms of that corner yeah definitely and that's one of the things about dropping Lotta she is one of our better defenders in those scenarios I'm a bit confused as to why Leah Williamson is on the goal line and not one of the players marking Tanberg like because Leah Williamson is going to be one of our better aerial players so why she hasn't been assigned to track one of Tottenham's better aerial threats and why she's on the goal line I don't really know to be honest it does speak to a lack of organization there but like you said it did feel like it was happening again.

14:43But I think a quick response was really needed. And this is where your big senior players step up. And this is a lovely goal as well. This is not the goal of a team that are low on confidence. This wasn't like just scrapping a set piece or someone, you know, like Olivia Smith's equaliser against Birmingham. That wasn't like a team goal. Do you know what I mean? That was a very talented player smashing it in the top corner. and they will count and you need to be able to do that. But Taylor Hines, I think just earlier in this move, she thinks about putting a cross in and she doesn't do it because there aren't enough players there.

15:20She kind of takes a beat, lovely reverse pass to Russo. Russo holding that up and seeing the run of Stamway, I think is just world-class. And then Stamway shoots first time, which is not something Arsenal have been doing. that this was a really nice equaliser and I think it had to happen quickly Jamie.

15:41Jamie: Certainly this goal and it's just escaped me now it happened earlier in the season I'm almost certain it was at the Emirates but I spoke a lot about how Russo's in a deeper position to receive the ball and it forces the other players to kind of storm the box and that's when we got an equaliser I want to say it was against Crystal Palace and that's what happens in this game like Russo has been forced into a deeper position Taylor Hines it's a great ball to kind of just open up and split Tottenham open and that's what it should be that's what it should be and there's so many times where Riso's at the top of the box and our players kind of tend to run away from her and let her get possession and they it's almost like she's like when you try to put two magnets together and it's just not working but in this game she's she's found the deep area and like that's just the move in the past that she plays to Georgia Stanway is something that you can't teach footballers like this is a player with such a high IQ and we've spoken about this a million times and Alessia Russo's spatial awareness when she's playing football is so superior to so many players in the league and in the world and this is what you see here because I'm not even certain she even knows where that's going but she knows there's going to be a run into the box because there there has to be a run into the box and then the finish from Stanway it's funny like watching this game because watching pull over and watching Stanway they're not necessarily similar but they love a shot from distance and it's so frustrating to watch when that happens and it's getting hit into the stands and we knew what we were kind of getting with Georgia Stanway similar to freedom on them like that kind of player that is going to have these shots and she has one earlier in the game as well and she kind of just tets lights a cop a bit and make sure that she's a little bit nervous and I think that that happens in this game as well because the Spurs players are really really drawn out she takes a takes a massive shot one touch is insane Tim to put that top right corner so that's the Georgia Stanway we wanted and that's the Lionesses link up that we kind of were speaking about in the summer but this is a beautiful goal from Taylor Hines to Russo to Stanway yeah this is Arsenal and this is what this is what we needed to see yeah definitely I think the fact she takes the shot early as well Lisa Kopp gets her hand on it but um if she'd taken a touch a the shot probably would have been blocked but even if it got through the goalkeeper sets herself and probably saves it anyway it's it's the type of shot we haven't seen enough of and then I think after that Jamie the game calms down a little bit maybe I just calmed down a little bit but I did watch it again and I did think you know some of our in that first 15 minutes excuse me I was I was crying out for some of our more experienced players like Lear like Georgia Stanway like Alessia Russo you know there were a lot of unnecessary passes into pressure and I was very much like just pass it from side to side for a couple of minutes and you know let Tottenham call off here because it was a very physical game and you know it's not just the pressing and the collisions tottenham leave it leave it in after the ball's gone as well they pull shirts they pull arms they push they trip when the ball was gone like it is very physically demanding um and i just felt like you you've got to calm this game down and i think that did happen after the equaliser.

18:43I think those players I'm talking about did get on the ball. I've done the analysis piece on Taylor Hines. There's a couple of lovely moments where she's under pressure on the edge of her own box and is just very, very cool on the ball. Very, very calm. And it kind of calms down from here. And even though, like you, I still didn't love how we looked sometimes when Tottenham countered, we didn't create a lot. But I felt like after the equaliser, the game started to go at least a little bit more in our direction, even if not emphatically so.

19:21Jamie: I couldn't agree more. The composure on the ball is the biggest thing that happens after the equaliser. Like you said, they look a lot more calm. I think defensively as well. We look so much more. We just look consolidated. And I think Martin Ho, something that he probably got wrong in this game was starting Matilda Wimberg on the right wing. And she's a left winger naturally. and that's worked for Tottenham a lot because she has played there this season more than she did under Willeham and more than she did under Ho last season but I think he expected on a bad day to play because there was there was a lot of room for her to exploit and there's a couple times after the equaliser where they they filter out they're trying to target Arsenal's left like they've probably practiced all week in training and rather than kind of set up in a spread out back four where you're covering the whole zone Taylor Hines is almost right next to Steph Catley because she knows as a left-footed left back that she can show Wimberg the line.

20:09Jamie: And Wimberg keeps trying to come in onto her left foot, but she can't because there's no space. And Hines and Catley do a fantastic job at clogging that area. So then Wimberg has to take the line. And Taylor Hines almost wins every single one of those battles because she's a left footer in her body angle. And we spoke about that last week. She's not turning the wrong way. She's showing her the line and she's winning possession. Or Wimberg has to recycle and go backwards. So I think one thing that Slager's got right and whether this was we need to change everything and kind of we have we just something has to give or whether it was I know that Tottenham are probably going to target that weakness and they tried to we won out that duel because of it because Wimberg was almost redundant the last 20 minutes of that first half because I think Taylor Hines just did a phenomenal job at saying I'm just going to stand next to Catley if you want to go down my left try me and she did so defensively I think we looked much stronger I think Emily Fox's recovery pace showed itself as as why it's so valuable as well in this last 20 minutes because every time that Tottenham tried to get another bite and say, okay, we'll go again, we'll go again, we'll press.

21:03Jamie: It was just getting cleaned up by those fullbacks. So yeah, I was impressed by the way we composed ourselves in possession. But for once I was saying, hey, we've got a lot of structure here at the back. And that was making me quietly confident for the rest of the game. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think Arsenal saw that coming, that Tottenham are going to try and do that. I picked out a number of examples of Vindberg trying to take tail Heinz on and not really being able to do it and all of the examples I picked out when I decided to kind of analyze Heinz's performance very few of them are attacking other than the equalizer like she did largely kind of stay put and I think that was deliberate as well that was like we're really locking this side down we're not getting done down here today and and you're right Vindberg doesn't usually play there and that tells you that Martin Ho watched the Birmingham game and what they did with Hertra and Arsenal kind of, I mean, when I say saw it coming, that's probably venerating Arsenal too much because it's a weakness they've had and now teams are directly picking on it.

22:07In fact, on the first game of the season, Brighton picked on it as well because they have a Spanish manager who said afterwards he knows honour well and they hit CK a lot. So there's a long-term issue about how we solve that and maybe we'll touch on that a bit in the second half. But I think you're right for this game. Arsenal saw that coming. They had time to prepare for it and they did. So halftime, the second half starts and Arsenal do start on the front foot in the second half. And then there's a chance Caitlin Ford, Stanway, lovely ball out to Ford on the left. She finds Russo, looks for all the world like Russo's going to score, but it's kind of straight at Lisa Kopp because the ball comes on her left foot and she can't do a lot else with it.

22:53Then from the corner, a lot goes on here. It's not a great corner from Kyra Cooney Cross. Leah Williamson does excellently to kind of keep it alive. Lisa Baum hits the post, and I didn't see this clearly at the time, even though I was very well positioned for it, but the ball is cleared onto a Spurs hand by a Spurs defender. Now, when I saw the replay in the press box, I was like, okay, that's a handball. The player's arm is up above their head. Apparently, and I didn't know this, IFAB changed the rules so that if it comes from your own player, you can't give handball for that. Jamie, as a percentage, how much do you think I care about that?

23:36Jamie: Zero, mate. Lower.

23:42but but Jamie I have to say as well one thing I did like because in because there's no Kim there's no Mariana like we have a lot of good penalty takers and Georgia Stanley takes the ball under her arm but then Russo takes it and generally speaking I am a let the best penalty taker take the penalties um I used to take penalties when I played and that was that was very much my give me the ball I don't care if you're the striker and you want a goal I'm good at penalties gimme gimme gimme however I do like that Russo stepped up here particularly having

24:16Jamie: missed a chance like 30 seconds earlier yeah I was nervous though can I be honest I was too yeah I um Georgia Stanway in general is a penalty taker that makes me quite nervous I don't really know why because she's very historically good for England at taking penalties um but I just think yeah she's very fired up in this game and I just foresaw it going over the bar and that's me not trusting a player that definitely 99 times out of 100 would have put that away but I couldn't agree more like this is the time when you're gifted a penalty and I didn't know that was a new rule as well I thought you can't have your hand like if you're blocking a clearance with your arm that's a penalty and I was really confused about the discourse so whatever I'm not up to date I'm I'm sorry about that to any non-arsenal fans that might be listening because apparently people do credit to them.

25:00Jamie: But I think that this has to go to Alessi Russo. This is a time where she had a really good international break. She's had a hard time for Arsenal. She's had a hard time finding the net. She obviously misses, I'm not calling it a sitter because it's across her body with her left foot. It's a great cross from Caitlin Ford, mind you, the cutback like five minutes earlier, but she has to take this penalty and she has to score it. And I think the way that she ran to the away fans, the passion that she shows, this is a very humble footballer that doesn't often show a lot of like arrogance and it wasn't an arrogant celebration but it was this is we're here now when we want to show you that we want to win and she ran straight to the fans and I think that needed to happen so for a confidence thing the best thing in in these scenarios for any football team has to be just put your striker on the ball let her stat pad just put the ball in back of the net and and that she did yeah and and actually I I might be wrong about this I think she usually puts them in the other corner I I kind of have that in my mind I might be wrong about that but she really slots this.

25:56It's a really, really good take. Arsenal 2-1 up. I mean, from here, I have to admit, I was expecting, oh, we've got Olivia Smith up front. We're 2-1 up now. Tottenham have been pressing. They're going to be very, very tired. I was expecting us to pick them apart on the break. That didn't really happen. I don't think Tottenham threatened a huge amount either. but again this had the feeling to me whether this was by design or whether what the players just felt they had to do it kind of felt like we just closed it out from here yeah certainly that's

26:38Jamie: exactly what it was and what it needed to be there's like three or four times where georgia stanway just hacks the ball as far as she can and that is what we spoke about last week where sometimes it just needs to be desperation and like players need to not leave room for error and to Tottenham's credit, I don't think that they looked like the better side at all. I think Arsenal looked like the side in maybe greater control and maybe that's giving us a little bit too much credit, but I think Spurs still had some moments, especially in midfield, where I thought there's a lot of space for them to exploit there and I think Tottenham are a very young side and it's actually really unfortunate that it's a Tottenham team because I really like the way Martin Ho goes about it and I think a lot of those players are really exciting to watch.

27:17Jamie: So I hate that they're Spurs players, but this is, I think, a difference of experience versus youth. And that's what I saw in the last 30 minutes of this game was Arsenal have a lot of experienced players that have played high-pressure, high-stakes games where they need to close it out. And sometimes that doesn't look good. And it doesn't look good when it's pouring rain. You've just got to get rid of the ball. And I think Spurs, they panic. And there's a lot of youth in this team like Gobsett and Vinberg. And even when Ella Morris has to come on as well, Like there was just an imbalance of experience.

27:48So I'm glad that Arsenal kind of took the ugly way out, Tim,

27:52Jamie: because I didn't see it being liquid football and I didn't see a third goal coming. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do. And I feel like Arsenal for several weeks have been in, get a result and go from there because nothing, whatever this manager wants to do with this team, none of it is happening with confidence at these levels. they had to just they had to grind it out it it reminded me a bit obviously it's not the same tactically but it just reminded me a bit of when man united came to the emirates they'd just they'd had a real slapping they'd had a bad start and they just went you know what we're blocking it like my philosophy and my ideas can wait because we just can't lose again and it was kind of similar to that and then at the end of the final whistle um you know very far away from me relatively speaking but it immediately becomes apparent Leah Williamson um kind of charging towards the away and uh her family was actually sat behind me during the game um you know exchanging glances throughout and um yeah and the celebration at the end Rene said they decided to do away with the usual post-match huddle they moved I believe the shooting practice the players do usually that happens on the other side of the pitch at Tottenham but Arsenal decided to move it next to the away fans and Renee talked she talked before the game about how the thing they talked about was doing this for the fans they immediately go over to kind of connect afterwards and celebrate with them and from the outside Jamie I understand that like people are going to take the piss and say oh looks like you won the league and all of that I felt this was a bit more calculated than that I I felt like energy is low, confidence is low, and I feel like they almost deliberately hammed it up because they just needed to feel that joy again.

29:49And I think those players deserve to, and those fans deserve to feel that as well.

29:55Jamie: Certainly. This is completely strategic. And I agree, like reading back and watching back Renee's pre-match press conference, a lot of it is about the energy and the fans. And then you go into this game and like I say this every week, Tim, we go on about it, but the away fans in this game are incredible. Like it's all you heard on the stream the entire game. And to sell out the away end, 4 ,000 fans, obviously the travel isn't massive for this week, but it's huge to take that turnout to a North London derby. And that's what the fans do. And I think the Leah Williamson thing is the most important thing that could have happened.

30:24Jamie: And I don't want to take away from the authenticity that she would have felt in that moment, celebrating as a childhood Arsenal fan, winning another North London derby. Because I know that this is a player that rarely shows passion. And this is not a player that will do things for the media. and do things for the kind of the image. She is someone that is very reserved in her celebrations. And you can see that this is authentic and it had to be her. And it was really nice that it was her. It was really nice that she shared that moment with the fans, but the away fans were incredible. And I think when you have your players after a couple of weeks, it's been really, really bad.

30:57Jamie: You feel disconnected from the team. And that happens in football to have your players come over and celebrate their way they did. And even social media means nothing, but even sometimes after the game players, I think it was Taylor Hines, Liv Smith maybe, saying this was for the fans and it was. And I'm glad that connection needs to be there and the Arsenal fans will never waver. But it's nice that the players kind of acknowledge that as well. Yeah, 4 ,000 of them in that corner. Not nice weather. We're not in good form. Unfortunately, the scheduling decision from this, the BBC, was a disaster.

31:30I felt, I don't know what they're thinking, scheduling this. So it clashes with a men's home game. and when Spursmen are away at Chelsea and we're recording on Sunday, this day perfectly free for that. I know they've got the Manchester derby as well, but I felt the scheduling of this was very poor and took quite a bit off the crowd. I don't think it was a great crowd overall other than the away section. And I'd really like broadcasters to think quite a lot more about that stuff when they make these decisions, to be honest. But yeah, absolutely. and and i think you're right about leah i think um you know there was something that went around this week she's like finally deleted her twitter account like hadn't been on there for a long time anyway um i think she has decided to you know almost consciously like take that little step back as it were in terms of like public image or whatever you want to call it um and you know concentrate on being her own player and everything and kind of blocking out noise but I think that was very authentic um at the end and it was quite funny as well Misa Rodriguez was really trying to get them to do the joined hands um type thing and I think it was Jesse Parker Humphries when we were talking in the in the waiting for the press conference afterwards they kind of said to be fair Misa's probably never won a derby before having played for Real Madrid like that is so good So, given Real Madrid's record in the Clasico against Barca.

33:05But yeah, look, I think Arsenal lent into the intangibles here. I kind of think they had to do that. I think if there's one game where you can do that, it's an away North London derby. Don't think it's a long-term strategy, but I think Arsenal were not in the land of long-term strategy here. I think they had to get the result and they did. And now we can start to think about some of those things again. let's take a break there and we will return in part two with your questions submitted on Blue Sky right after this

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36:11Jamie: Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. No new tools, no extra logins. Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Make work less work. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Okay, welcome back to the Arsenal women ask cast and askblog.com looking back on Saturday's 2-1 win away at Tottenham at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on a very kind of wet and windy but ultimately victorious day for Arsenal and the first question I've picked out from Blue Sky Jamie is from Hannah O 'Kane at Pocket Hannah how happy are you not to have to talk about disappointing result for the X time in a row I am so happy Hannah I'm so happy this is refreshing and look we're probably going to get into the nuts and bolts of it with these questions because there's plenty to say about the fixture despite the result but I think we just need to take three points and run no one needs to think too hard about it we'll think hard about it next week not right now yeah absolutely and and like you said I think we have got some kind of good meaty questions to get into because I think everyone recognizes what this was which was maybe a bit of a one-off maybe not in terms of how we set up and everything like that.

37:36But let's start light and we'll get into some of that. But this one's from Callum at C. Tindall. Just one to keep it light. Who was your favorite player in the match? And was there one moment from them that really stood out for you as something to build upon?

37:51Jamie: I've spoken enough about Taylor Hines, so I have to say Caitlin Ford. Like, this was awesome. This was awesome. And it was exactly what we've been asking for, just hunger and grit. Like, sometimes it didn't look pretty. but sometimes it did. I actually think she worked the ball really well. I mentioned when Russo kind of missed the left-footed across the body, that's a great cutback. She's opening up the space for Russo for the equalizer as well when she kind of drags herself out of that hole. This is a really intelligent performance, but at the end of the day, it was just hunger. She kept running, and the moment for me was in like the last five minutes when she comes back and chases back, tracks back.

38:25Jamie: I don't know if it was pullover or which player it was, but just a great sliding challenge to get the ball back and stop the counterattack. So Caitlin Ford, this is the kind of player she is, and this is who she's been for Arsenal. This is exactly what we needed. And yeah, I think she was almost flawless. Yeah, for me, I'll pick out a Taylor Hines moment that was in the analysis piece, but an obvious one where she makes the tackle in the first minute. Basically Tottenham break, like the very first minute in the exact area where we've been very, very weak and Tottenham target it immediately and immediately will look vulnerable.

39:01And Taylor Hines sprints back, sliding tackle, plays it off the Spurs player, goal kick. And I felt like for her, that was probably very important as well to build on in terms of her performance. Because after that, I don't think she went to ground again. After that, I think it was all very controlled and very restrained. But I feel like maybe, I don't know, maybe she did, maybe she didn't. It felt to me like that set the tone for her performance as well. and set the tone for some of the stuff we've talked about in terms of locking down the left-hand side. Do you have a question?

39:33Jamie: I do. This one is probably the overarching theme of the game. This is from good friend Adam Salter at AdamSalter4. After her earlier success in repositioning players, Mariona Catley are the examples Adam has provided. Do you think Rene has become guilty of taking this too far this season with too many players played out of position, creating unnecessary confusion? Today we saw more square pegs in square holes which think helped the team. Yeah, maybe. I feel like that probably refers mainly to Onabarche at left back because I can't think of too many other kind of players. And we play Olivia Smith up front in this game.

40:13I think it's been more about just like lots of pieces changing and lots of big pieces changing. I think particularly that central midfield, which has been so defined by Kim Little and Mariana and moving away from that, which we do have to do, I think has been very difficult. So, you know, we play Olivia Smith up front. She's played there before, but that's a little bit out of position. I feel like that mainly refers to left back most likely. And listen, I think Taylor Hines should keep her place. Basically, I think she's performed really well there. And it clearly helped having a left footer there.

40:54It clearly helped having a slightly more orthodox left back. I don't know what that means for on a Bache long term. Then maybe you get stuck in a, God, is this ever going to work? Like if it's never going to work, we've kind of wasted our time because we already have Emily Fox and she's on a new contract. And I don't think you can keep maybe the best two right backs in the world, like happy in the same team. I'm not sure you can really do that, particularly when you've got Smilla Holmberg as well. So maybe long-term there is a balance problem there. It does feel like they have to try and make Onabarche at left-back work because it doesn't really make sense at right-back unless you move Emily Fox over or something like that.

41:36But I think, I kind of feel like that can wait. And for now, Taylor Hines should play on Wednesday and we should go from there. And it should be, you played really well, you gave us something, play again Wednesday, keep your place. and on a Barche like any other player we'll have to fight our way back in and she's good enough to do that like this might be one of those short-term conversations that in a couple of months we're not having but we are now because we have to wait and see so I do think having Steph Catley at left centre-back as well having a left footer there I think that did help like I think maybe everyone except Lisa Baum was right-footed against Birmingham I guess not including the goalkeeper.

42:20We're a very, very right-footed team. Again, you look across to the men's team, Mikel Arteta. Quite often, the men have more left-footers than right-footers on the pitch. It's usually about equal, though. I think that's very deliberate. I think it's harder to do in women's football, though. I don't think there are as many good left-footed players around, or at least not enough to make a kind of half-and-half team. But I feel like this question really relates to left-back, and I do think Taylor Hines should keep her place and we go from there and everything else can fall into place from there. How about this one then?

42:57This one's from at Rebar. Happy for the win, but still a lot to fix. Agreed. Do you think Kim goes back into the double pivot when she's fit or will Rene persevere with Kyra and Georgia? Still feels like the midfield needs defensive stability. I think we just managed to hold on today. So we talked about Kim is probably, or certainly our defensively best player. So I do kind of feel like we need her. But at the same time, Kyra and Georgia have played four or five games on the bounce together. And if you're looking long-term, there's a lot of questions here, Jamie, I think about how we balance the short and long-term.

43:40But let's say Kim is fit next weekend, which I think is a possibility against Liverpool. Do you think she goes back in yet?

43:50Jamie: Look, this is, yeah, like you said, it's kind of hard to talk about this in isolation. For me right now, and I really think my overarching opinion on this Spurs game was we still didn't look defensively solid in the midfield, and I still think we're giving up possession a lot. I think Cooney Cross's decision-making in this game wasn't actually that great. She was probably one of our weakest players on the ball, whereas last week against Birmingham, I thought she was one of the strongest players. And I think when you look at that in isolation, you're looking at the way Spurs play compared to Birmingham.

44:17Jamie: It's two different oppositions. So then it's a broader conversation of you have a lot of midfielders in your armory and you need certain things from different players. And in this game, I think if Kim's fit, you play Kim against Spurs, but maybe against Liverpool, although they are a lot more attacking than they used to be, but definitely drastically less so than Tottenham. I'm looking at more of a Kyra Kuni cosplayer. So I think it will be opposition dependent. And that's what we're going to see for the rest of the season. God forbid we drop out of the Champions League after Christmas, but we're going to see a lot of rotation.

44:45Jamie: For me, though, I still think there's too much vulnerability in that midfield group, and I think I would put Kim in for Kyra and still play Georgia Stanway because I think Stanway offers a lot in this team right now, and as does Kyra, but Georgia's one of our most senior players right now, and I think that's really important. So not to kind of take the easy way out, I do think it's opposition dependent, but I still think if we don't get that penalty in this game and this ends 1-1, then we're saying Kim needs to play in this game because not only is she defensively sound, but she's great at progressing the ball.

45:13Jamie: So my answer is yes, I think she comes in, but I don't think it will be a case of Kyra loses her spot permanently. I think it's going to fluctuate. Yeah, definitely. We're in Champions League group phase. Like there's midweek games. There's a lot of games at the moment. I think there'll be minutes for everyone. And Georgia and Kyra have had a good run together, which I think helps. Do you have a question? I do. This one says, this one's from James M26. There's two similar questions I'm going to read out too. James M26 says, do you think we will see more of Heinz and Ford together? After teams targeting our left-hand side, we see much more balance today.

45:50Jamie: I thought both were outstanding. And then Nick's clip says, cohesion on the left has been one of our biggest issues. Enter Heinz and Ford for their first starts of the season, and it looked like they'd played every match together. The best performance from both for a long time. Should Rene be brave and continue to start them together, even if it means Badge and Smith play less minutes or in different positions for a few matches until we really find our groove? yep I had these two grouped together uh absolutely yeah so I think I've already answered the Taylor Hines one I think she should stay in until such point there is a reason to take her out the the thing about Caitlin Ford um I think that's that's really interesting because on the balance of it she deserves to be rewarded for that performance by keeping her place in the team.

46:39I think that would be a really justified thing to do. I think, again, Mikel Arteta does that quite a lot. If a player plays well, they tend to play the next game, even if they're not a total tactical fit. However, where you've got to balance this is this was a very specific type of game and a very specific type of game that Caitlin Ford really excels in. Is Benfica going to be like that on Wednesday? Is Liverpool going to be like that next weekend? To be fair, I don't really know how Benfica play that well so I'd be surprised if they were a really aggressive pressing team like Spurs but I don't know to be honest I'll look into that in the next couple of days Liverpool game you know well Liverpool do play with a bit of a high line so maybe there'll be space in behind but I think that one's a bit trickier to be honest and I do feel like we're going to be playing a little bit more low block football most likely and in that scenario I think I'd rather have Olivia Smith back on the left hand side and I do think that you know obviously Liv and Taylor Hines have that connection from having played together at Liverpool as well so I think I'd probably be inclined to go back to Liv and Taylor Hines on the left and see how that balance works because I do think the left back helped a lot in this game but that said I wouldn't I wouldn't think it was a terrible decision if Rene says Caitlin you played really well I'm going to reward you with another start and then that becomes an example to the other players you play like that you'll stay in the team type thing yeah Taylor definitely but I feel like Caitlin Ford's performance maybe wasn't so much about us looking brilliantly balanced although we did look quite well balanced obviously Caitlin comes back and does her work in the other direction really well as well and I don't know if that's going to matter as much against Benfica so I'd probably put Olivia Smith back on the left against Benfica have Caitlin come on involved in the game hopefully when we're a goal or two up and there's space to exploit but yeah I thought that was a really interesting question there's a lot here about balancing what worked on Saturday and will that necessarily work in other games and I don't think we have a lot of clarity on that at the moment how about this one from At Han Solo did our lack of ball security early on stop an entrenched low block game state from happening or did our starting lineup changes throw Tottenham off so a question really here about Tottenham's approach were they perhaps planning on being a little bit more defensive and we gave them some encouragement um you know we talked a little bit about how I think we threw them off on our left hand side but what do you think in terms of Tottenham's approach and how Arsenal's setup might have changed or might not have changed what Tottenham were planning to do?

49:57Jamie: I think this is a really interesting question because you can make the argument that Arsenal dominated possession for the last eight WSL games and that's amounted to nothing. So obviously you're handing a handbook to the opposition in that respect. But I think Tottenham's way of playing, and obviously they suffered a big defeat against London City and they didn't really change their approach against Chelsea. And that obviously really, really hurt them. I think that Martin Ho is looking at this young side and he knows he's not going to win the league with this side, but he knows he's trying to instill a round of football into these players.

50:28Jamie: And there is a style there. And I'm quite envious of that because you can see what he's trying to do. And you can see even with the recruitment, the players they brought in, it's a lot of attacking players that are playing higher up the pitch. And I think that that is impressive. So I don't think that this is a case of Spurs were going to sit back and Arsenal looked a bit shaky and then we invited that pressure. I do think they were always going to do that. But in saying that, I think he kind of prepared for both because the double pivot of Drew Spence and Evelina Somonan is super defensive. That's a really defensive pivot and they're players that like to control the ball.

51:01Jamie: Somonan is a really strong player on the ball as well. So seeing her and Georgia Stanway in the same midfield, I thought was going to be interesting. Georgia Stanway definitely won that battle in my opinion. So I think that Martin Ho came to this game to say we're going to have to kind of adapt to Arsenal just as much as they have to adapt to us while also playing his playing style. So I'm not going to say that we had the upper hand and they kind of thought, oh, look, they're vulnerable. Let's bite now. I do think Spurs came with that intention to play. What was the second half of the question, Tim?

51:32Yeah, it was about, what was the second half of the question? I've just deleted it and this is where my short-term memory is going to be exposed. yeah about like whether what arsenal did kind of with their starting lineup through tottenham off

51:46Jamie: a little bit yes and i said that earlier i definitely think it did because they're looking at targeting the the right hand side for them the left hand side for arsenal uh summon and spence again talking about those two defensive players they play the ball they break the lines a long ball is a big part of this team and pulova's role is to almost play super high but then she has to drop back and help and i think that's where she flourishes i was kind of watching her over the last couple of weeks obviously she's been scoring but she's playing with a lot of freedom that in her last season with Arsenal she wasn't being given and I think that that's exciting for her but I totally think that Rene expected Martin Ho to say we need to go down that left side so I think that that was kind of a chess move and it's not like a power move because it's not like Rene saying hey I've outclassed you it's saying I know that you think I'm weak and I'm going to try to band-aid that up so I think it's a bit of both but I don't want to discredit the way that Tottenham play football because I do think they're trying to instill an identity in the way that they play And I just think Arsenal did a good job at fixing themselves rather than trying to exploit the opposition, so to speak.

52:43Yeah, I mean, I had a little bit of a dig about like stuff happening, you know, after the ball was gone. Nothing like sickeningly violent or anything, but just lots of like lots of wrestling kind of going on. But I think Tottenham have been a soft touch in the past and they're certainly not now. and you mentioned earlier about fans of other teams listening to this podcast. I've got a feeling that number is going to drop for this episode for any Spurs fans listening, which I don't think are going to be many, if any, but if Arsenal people are slightly rattled by your approach, that's a good thing, I think, and much better than the alternative.

53:27I think something I'd read about Tottenham earlier this season is that their midfield was very open. And I think when you play Drew Spence and Suleman in front of the defence, that's, you know, you know what you're going to get there. I do think Suleman was fortunate not to be sent off, actually. She had a yellow card, which was, I mean, in its own right, probably a yellow card, but the referee indicated it was for persistent fouling. And then she had, in the second half, where she pulled Georgia Stanway's shirt after the ball had gone. And I think the referee just didn't want to deal with it, basically, because that was an absolute stick on yellow.

54:08We know Drew Spence is highly combative. I believe she equaled the record for WSL appearances yesterday. Someone we've had run-ins in with the past, I think. But again, someone who's got over 200 WSL appearances. So even though Tottenham are a very young team in general, I think they did that quite deliberately, particularly for a game like this where they wanted to be a bit combative and where it's a North London derby so I do think there were things that Tottenham probably would have done anyway I think the left side is the main thing and and yeah maybe we encourage them by giving that space in the first minute um and turning the ball over but I do think they were they were pressing very aggressively from the first few seconds so um yeah um yeah do you have a question we'll maybe

54:57Jamie: do one or two more each yeah i have this one from shane thomas at token bg is renee in the same position she was when she first took the job on an interim basis looking no further ahead than preparing for the next game and will that impact her team selections and then in a similar light at fever bitch says the similar thing about consistency in the changes but finishes off the question with how do we strike a balance between consistency and unpredictability? Yeah, definitely. I think that's the million dollar question from this game, to be honest. And like I said, it's very similar to Manchester United, who kind of put things on ice a little bit in the interest of getting results.

55:34But it's so hard to know because there's merit and there's downsides to both approaches. You can keep it the same and get some results and go, right, okay we're building something but then when do you start trying to change things again you can kind of get stuck in that washing machine or you can you can kind of try and go back straight away and ultimately the only thing that tells you what the right approach is is the results and again apologies for this I'm going to hark back to like Mikel Arteta and Arsenal but when he first took over he moved Arsenal to a back three because he didn't have the players he wanted and obviously that was never how he wanted to play but when he took over it's like I've got to do this for now just in the interest of making us more solid the difference there of course is Mikel Arteta didn't have the players he wanted presumably Renee Slager should have the players he wants by now she's been in charge for two years we just had a big summer transfer window and so on a bar chair at left back for example Reuteler doesn't get on again in this game and I think again that probably tells you that she doesn't trust this player yet that in game for her life where if we lose she's probably going to have to go it feels like we've said that quite a few times though managers show you who they really trust in these moments and so there are some kind of more long-term things that haven't gone away because of this result and they are going to come up as discussion points again because they'll have to because if we keep this team this i mean we won't but let's say we keep the basis of this team the same and we win the next four games we're still going to have the discussion about well okay what are we doing with on a barche what are we doing with geraldine reuteler like what what's happening with these players um what are we going to do at left center back like all of these questions still kind of come back up and they're going to have to be addressed one way or another sooner or later um I do still feel like that can wait for now I almost feel like getting up to the November international break is maybe a good point to say let's not disturb things too much let's rack up some wins and then we can kind of think about that later um I should also correct myself earlier I said we were playing Liverpool away next weekend we're playing Aston Villa at home I got confused because the men are away at Liverpool next weekend and then the women are away at Liverpool the weekend after that so yeah I guess if I was gonna if you're gonna put a gun to my head and tell me to answer this question directly I'd say maybe get up to the November international break don't disturb too much and then use that time to really think about some of those longer term questions speaking of well not necessarily longer term questions I think this is a shorter term one all of a sudden we are quite short in midfield with some of the injuries we've got and this is from Laura Brady at Braids 13 towards the end of the game both Stan White and Cooney Cross were on yellow cards and this was an issue because it took away the option to break up play that's a very good point I hadn't thought about that I didn't I didn't entirely think about that at the time with Little and Caldente out injured what would our backup options be in the double pivot?

58:55So we kind of only really have got Kaya and Georgia Stanway. Any more left field suggestion? I mean, Geraldine Reuteler is there. It feels weird that that feels at the moment like some kind of outlandish option. But I mean, I guess what would we have done if we'd had to have taken one of those players off?

59:17Jamie: This is a horrible situation that we've been posed with you. I'm actually quite at a loss for words because you look at everyone in our squad list and there's not a lot you can do. I think maybe a formation change is the option in this scenario where you have to play three centre-backs, two wing-backs maybe, and then you have less security in the midfield. Like maybe you play Leah, Catley, Fox, and then you put Smiller and Hartens, like pull them back a little bit, almost play a back five. I think immediately if we're talking if one of those players got sent off in that game, you have to shuffle around the formation rather than the personnel, or you bring on Elisa Diomeda, keep on Steph Catley, and maybe just put Leah in the six for the last 20 minutes to kind of grind out.

59:59Jamie: But that's not a great thought to have, I guess, which is good that Kim Little is nearing the matchday squad because we've kind of always spoken about, oh, we have all these players. We don't have a natural CDM, but we have a lot of players that can play that role. And this isn't the game where you're bringing in Geraldine and saying you need to play a defensive midfield role because we don't actually trust you in your natural position at all. So, yeah, that would have not been a great situation. I think, Tim, that goes to say what's Renee using, like she utilising the squad and is she kind of planning for these circumstances because it's all well and good for her to not have these players in the squad and not getting minutes and that's fine because we don't really need them.

1:00:34Jamie: But there are going to be situations where you're forced to hybrid your team and kind of put circles in squares and that might have happened. It didn't. But, yeah, I would say a formation change and maybe you just have to bring on another centre-back and put Leah in there to consolidate, but I don't like that. Yeah, centre-backs are what we've got though. So you could put Lotta or Elisa Di Almeida in. I thought it was interesting she came on at the end as well. I think there was one time maybe Steph Catley got done for pace a little bit and Spurs brought on Kirstie Hansen and Shakira Martinez and I feel like Steph's still kind of coming back up to full fitness.

1:01:13She was excused the last Matildas game because of that. But I also think that perhaps they just thought, OK, they've brought their runners on and we need a faster centre-back. That was an interesting kind of decision. And again, Elisa Gialmeyda made a really good tackle actually on Shakira Martinez soon after she came on. And I think that helped actually as a substitution and one that maybe flew under the radar a little bit. But yeah, I wouldn't have another suggestion other than putting Lear in midfield and bringing either Lotta or Elisa J. Almeida on because that's where our resource is at the moment.

1:01:48And obviously we've got quite a few injuries in there. Should we do one more and we'll both have a go at it, if you've got one? I haven't got any more actually.

1:01:57Jamie: Yeah, I haven't got any more either. Okay, yeah. I had one about what we make of the players going over to celebrate at the end, but I think we covered that in part one. And it's interesting. And this is entirely human nature. Like the number of questions when we win, like really, really goes down. And it's the same with like the comments. Like I think we had like over 100 comments on René's quotes after Birmingham last week. And I think we're about five or six. And that's, I've been making football content a long time. That is just what happens. There is more to say about defeats and draws than there are victories.

1:02:39so I hope you'll forgive us this perhaps being five or six minutes shorter than usual after what kind of is a bit of a celebratory pod but I think we also recognise there's quite a lot of work to do. I also thought there are just some really clear themes that came out of this game like short term versus long term and actually that's what a lot of the questions focused on and I think everyone came out with a very very similar feeling and And it's going to be really interesting to see how some of that unpacks itself over the next few weeks. But Jamie, thanks as ever. Lovely to talk to you after a win for once.

1:03:19Jamie: It's nice to see you smiling, Tim. Hopefully this carries on against a scorned Aston Villa side next week. But yeah, let's keep on this train, please, please. Yes, absolutely. And we will have all the usual coverage we always do around the Benfica game on Wednesday. Rene and a player will be doing their press conference on Tuesday afternoon, which we will be across and we'll be at the game and at the Aston Villa game and at the Liverpool game and at the Barcelona game if my flight leaves, which I wouldn't bet money on actually, given I'm flying on the day of a general strike, but we'll see. Thanks for experiencing that with us.

1:03:59It was nice to talk to you all after a win. like I say I think the audience is going to go down for this podcast because there won't be many Chelsea and Manchester City and certainly any Tottenham fans listening on this occasion but thanks for being with us we'll have another podcast after the Aston Villa game next weekend until then take it easy and we will speak to you again after that

1:04:58Jamie: Thank you. Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash Workspace with Gemini.