Episode 839 - "It's only pre-season"

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1:28Tom Canton: ArseBlogArseCast Here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Preseason continued yesterday evening with a 3-2 defeat to Villarreal. Results at this time of the season don't really matter that much, but performances when you're just a little over a week away from the start of the new Premier League season do matter a little bit more. And I think it's fair to say that on that basis, There are some interesting talking points from last night's game, particularly when you put them in the context of preseason in general, all the games that we have played so far.

2:10Tom Canton: So that is what we're going to delve into in today's show. And of course, there is another game this weekend against Athletic Club, Athletic Bilbao, taking place at the Emirates on Saturday. It's the Emirates Cup game. And I hope that when Mikel Arteta comes to picking his team for that game, it is in the ballpark of the team that he's going to pick for Old Trafford. Because I think throughout this preseason, the selections, for obvious reasons, you want to give players minutes, et cetera, et cetera, have been a bit hodgepodge, mix and match. And I don't know that we've seen anything close to what is or should be our first 11.

2:49Tom Canton: So we'll see what happens in that regard. and I think that might also be a bit of a talking point when we look at the VRIL game. So let's just get on with today's show. And with me to look back at last night's game from the Gooner Talk TV, it is Tom Canton. Good morning, Tom. Hello, mate. How are you? I'm good, thank you. I'm good, thank you. Listen, discussions of pre-season always have this, it's only pre-season, caveat to them, which I think we all understand. But at the same time, we're looking at these games, we're looking at what happens, we're looking at performances, we're looking at individuals, we're looking at the collective, and we're trying to assess our readiness for the new season, right?

3:25Tom Canton: So last night against Villarreal, you know, Hong Kong, Singapore, it's humid, it's hot, the conditions are difficult, you're looking for an Arsenal performance. It's maybe slightly different from those ones. I'm not quite sure how to put this. If you're a glass half full person, your half full glass is not any more full after last night. But if you're a glass half empty person, Your half-empty glass is a lot more half-empty, if that makes sense. Can that work? Do you know what I'm saying? Your pessimist dream is what you are. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. I think that I went into the game excited to be back at the Emirates again.

4:07I went into the game hoping to see, because I'd always said that kind of the two games where I was more expectant of what I might expect to see from Arsenal would be in these two Emirates games, more so than on the tour in Asia, which for me was more about fitness and giving minutes to players and maybe trying a couple of things here and there. But it felt more like a continuation of the tour more than it did kind of a key preparatory game for the Premier League. And I feel as though if we'd have played the way we played yesterday against A Man United, we probably won't win that game. So yes, you look at it through the lens of its pre-season and I certainly am doing that because I've seen Arsenal teams that have been very successful have pretty dour pre-seasons in the past, to be fair.

4:51So I have to look at it in that sense. But my problem is, Andrew, that I see issues that aren't issues that have cropped up in pre-season. I'm seeing problems that I feel have been ingrained in the way we have played and certain players in particular have played over the last few seasons that are still here and are still problems for us that we need to try and overcome. But again, it is just pre-season.

5:17Tom Canton: Yeah, listen, you can have a great preseason and win every game and score a load of goals. And your first Premier League game is a different beast entirely. And you can go through preseason struggling a little bit and trying to find fluency and trying to find your rhythm. And then it sort of clicks when the games become competitive. And I think we have to acknowledge that there is a very significant difference in terms of the mindset of players when the games are competitive. Right. That's just powerful. of the course. You cannot ignore that aspect of it. So I want to try and be fair and I want to try and, you know, I don't want to be overly pessimistic.

5:55Tom Canton: I don't want to be overly optimistic. I do want to talk about some of the things that we've seen and some of the things that maybe give me a little bit of pause for thought rather than cause for concern, right? That's the way of putting it. So I feel like Bukayo Saka, Victor Yacarez, and Gabrielle Martinelli is a midfield trio that is, or a forward trio rather, that is going to start quite a lot of games for Arsenal in the new season, right? The midfield trio that we put behind them last night of Christian Norgard, Mikel Moreno and Ethan Winery is probably not going to start a lot of games together in the Premier League.

6:37Tom Canton: So how do you view the need to bring in a new striker for the team to get used to him, for us to get used to the way he plays, and then to put, I don't want to say, like our second choice midfield behind them. It feels to me like, I understand, you need to give players minutes, you need to give them opportunities, you need to include them, etc., etc. But as you're sort of working towards that first game at Old Trafford, I found it odd last night that when Victor Jokeres came off, Martin Odegaard came on. We've talked so much about Martin Odegaard, and where his form has been in the last little while.

7:16Tom Canton: And one of the arguments, if you're looking for mitigation, is that for a long part of last season, we didn't have a centre-forward. So you bring in this new striker, you're thinking, who would benefit from a new striker? Well, if you're Martin Odegaard, if you're a creative player, having that centre-forward who makes those runs, oh my God, that would be amazing. And if you're a centre-forward and you're looking for somebody to feed you, to give you the chances, is you're looking at someone like Martin Odegaard and thinking, yes. Now, Victor Jokeres has only been here a week. It's very, very early days.

7:50Tom Canton: Did it strike you at all as strange that there was no time on the pitch for those two together or for that front three, what could be ostensibly a first-choice front three, to play with the first-choice central midfield that we assume is going to be Zubamendi, Declan Rice, and Martin Odegaard? So, yeah, I'm kind of caught in this one because I'm caught between two minds. The fan in me wants to lose my head a little bit and be like, yeah, why on earth wouldn't you want to give Jochores as much exposure to a partnership with Odegaard as feasibly possible ahead of the Premier League? And then the other part of me is thinking, if Kai Havertz was fit, he would have started today's game, I think, over Jochores.

8:29I think Jochores started this game predominantly because Kai Havertz wasn't there. After just 20 minutes, you know, in Hong Kong and very little time to train and very little sessions, I think they would have more gradually eased him, but because of Havertz's unavailability, Jokeres started this. And I think that Jokeres probably would have come on with Odegaard if Havertz was there. So that's where my kind of journalistic side has gone to, if you like, and more reasonable and less emotive side has gone to. The surprise I did have was that Odegaard didn't come on earlier, perhaps at halftime, with Zubemendi, for example, and then allowed kind of a crossover between Odegaard and Jokeres being on the field.

9:10That was kind of my, if I had a criticism of the changes for a pre-season game, it would have been that. The other part of me is also thinking to Saturday and also to the first team that we're facing on the following Sunday as well, next week. And that is around, is Arteta the type of guy that would do a lot of his preparation outside of these friendlies on the training field to not give Man United much of a glimpse at what we're going to try and do against them. And I think that he is that paranoid in moments where he wants to do everything within his power to be misleading or to just kind of give exposure and minutes and collaborations between players purely from a pre-season perspective and not really anything tactical or something that gives Man United any...

10:01If we were playing Leeds at home in the first game of the season, I think we might have seen more of those starting figures playing. I really think that Arteta takes into account and is really somewhat overthinking in moments. From a press conference point of view, putting questions to him when he misleads you in certain ways and doesn't give you those answers because he doesn't want to give much away. I think there's such a pressure on him in some ways about this season in particular, that everything that we do, every decision that's made, every lineup that's given, even in these preseason friendlies, is meticulously thought out on multiple levels that includes how much information we give to our opponents ahead of a new season.

10:39And I think that you're most likely to see our starting midfield play on Saturday with Jochores, with Saka, maybe with Maduweke instead, on the left-hand side, I'm sure we'll come on to later. I think that if Arteta can limit as much information as feasibly possible to Ruben Amarim and Man United, he will choose to do that within the realms of how you best prepare for a new season and still have work to do on the training field. I don't know if that's conspiratorialist or anything, but that's kind of where my head's gone with it.

11:09Tom Canton: Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, I think your point about Havertz is a good one because if he had been there, I think he would have started. And I think there was probably part of him thinking, well, I can't start Mikel Marino up front in a preseason game. Having gone out and bought the striker, it might have suited him, for example, to start Marino up front, do something a little bit different in midfield, and then bring Jokeres on with Odegaard, as you said. But I think the optics of that in preseason, maybe not great. Yeah. So, you know, is it then incumbent on Arteta when we look ahead and I know we're here to talk about the game against Villarreal, but it's sort of impossible to discuss it without the context of preseason in general and what we're looking for on Saturday.

11:57Do you think it's really important that we see something as close to our first team on Saturday against Athletic Bilbao in order to provide a little bit of continuity?

12:11Tom Canton: You know, I know we still have some issues whether Gabriel can play or not, whether Timber can play or not. They just came back and we might touch on them in a moment. But that midfield trio feels like it can start games. And you've got Saka and you've got Havertz or Jokeres. to start up front, Martinelli or Trossard or Madweke to start on the left-hand side. But as a way of building a kind of cohesion and fluency, it feels to me like we need to get as close to our first team as possible on Saturday. And whether that gives Ruben Amorim the nod or not, I don't think you need to be an expert. This is not really top-secret stuff.

12:55Tom Canton: You can more or less pick the team anyway. One way or the other, there's, it's not like Amorim on, on Sunday when the team sheet comes out, goes, good Lord, what's this? I had no idea. You know, so I think, I think we do need to lean into producing the best that we can out of our, in inverted commas, first 11 or the players best suited for that first 11 this season. because I think there are some physical issues with one or two of them. Gabriel Timber, as I mentioned, even Jokeres, who hasn't trained properly, he's been in the gym, etc., but hasn't done team training because he didn't turn up for sporting.

13:32Tom Canton: Madweke, who was away for most of the summer, has got to get back into it. I'm not saying they're unfit, but properly 100 % match fit. Those are things that he's going to have to take into consideration. Yeah, it's sharpness, isn't it? It's the sharpness and understanding. And I think you're absolutely right. We do need to see probably the team that will start on paper, Old Trafford, starting on Saturday and allowing those players in a match scenario to build those collaborations and those relationships again and find that familiarity between one another so that we are best prepared as feasibly possible to start the Premier League season with a victory.

14:13And I think that we've seen some players lack that sharpness, lack that zip. It's the system that is often kind of spoken about at the moment. We talk a lot about Arsenal's left-hand side and the drawbacks there and how it's a little bit unbalanced and a lot of the emphasis is down Arsenal's right instead. If you can structure the team in a certain way, if you can select certain players for these games, it can sort out some of those issues. And so that's why I think it is really important that we start with the best team possible on Saturday. I think we did it. I think we have done it for the last few seasons in preseason where that last game of preseason tends to be the 11 that we do see on the opening day of the campaign.

14:53So, yeah, you mentioned the preparedness of some players. Joachim Reyes has been here for a week, just over a week. You know, he's got 80 minutes of football in his feet now. And I expect another, you know, 45 plus from him again at the weekend. I think Havertz should be back from the sounds of things. Arteta said it was just a matter of days, you know, the way he was absent, they just didn't want to risk him. So I imagine he'll still play a part of it. If he does start the game, I think that's our best indication about who might be starting at Old Trafford. But I sincerely hope that it is Jokeres who starts, because I think the more opportunities we give him out of a competitive context to learn this system and learn his teammates and the movement and his expectations is important also for his teammates to understand.

15:33Because I think that was one of the frustrations about the performance was there were just so many moments I felt with Jokeres that he made runs, he made movements that weren't found. And I don't want to start making comparisons with previous players too soon. But one of the things that I always felt about Lacazette in particular was that Lacazette would make run after run after run after run and never be found. Now, I think Jokoriz is a level above him personally, and I think he will bring us more. And I think his movement is better than him. But there was always something about the system under Arteta that was about progressing the ball up the field in possession as players rather than quick movements of the ball through half spaces or into wide areas that quickly went into the box to catch opposition defenders out.

16:19And I worry that we aren't doing that enough so close to the Premier League's start.

16:25Tom Canton: Yeah, I, you know, we heard a lot before the game about how Arsenal understand they need to adapt their game to the strengths of Victor Jacarez, right? And it takes time. Like, you can't sort of have four or five training sessions and all of a sudden everything is perfect and everything clicks. But I'm completely with you on that. There were moments yesterday in the first half where I felt, oh, maybe we're just not adapting to Victor Jochores. Maybe we're just sort of going, we've got a lovely, big, shiny new signing up front. He'll fix all the problems. And I don't think that's the case. And I don't think it can work like that.

17:01Tom Canton: And I don't think there's any suggestion that that's what Arsenal think, right? We just put this guy up front and everything's going to be better from an attacking perspective. I don't think that's it. But I do think your point about how quickly we move the ball is really, really important. There was one moment I can remember where Myles Lewis Skelly picked up the ball just, you know, inside our own half. Jokeres made a run down the left-hand side. It wasn't that a pass would have set him free and sent him in behind, but the pass would have stretched the game in a way that we don't do often enough.

17:38Tom Canton: And that sort of stretching of space and stretching of defenses allows room for other players to move in. But instead, and I think whether it's habitual or whether it's something a little bit with Miles where he does like to hold on to the ball a bit and he can be very, very good at it. There are times where I think he could move the ball a little more quickly. I think those are the moments where players and obviously the manager and the coaching staff have to recognize that this is where we can do something a little bit different. So when you see him make that run, try and make that pass. And maybe it doesn't come off and maybe you give the ball away and people will moan and groan.

18:18Tom Canton: But at the same time, we're playing with a guy who thrives in transition, who thrives with space in behind. You cannot have space in behind if you are passing the ball around on the halfway line and the opposition are organized and set and it's impossible to get the ball in behind without something ridiculously Bergkamp-esque in terms of a pass, which I don't think we have in this team anyway. Sometimes Martin Odegaard can do it, but we haven't seen a lot of that of late. You know what I mean? So it's those moments, and it's not to single out Miles in any way because I think others are going to have to do this as well.

19:01Tom Canton: Like, I don't want to say we're risk-averse. I don't want to say that we're not willing to take chances, but I do feel at times there is a cautiousness to the way that we play, which has become our default. Do you know what I mean? Well, if you won't say it, I will. I think we are risk averse. I think that there is such an emphasis on control and dominance and keeping the ball and at times almost creating a high-level XG chance, for example, that gives you the best opportunity to score that we never quite get to that chance because we end up playing the wrong ball at the end of the move rather than the right ball or taking a touch earlier or looking up sooner or playing a more riskier pass when the opportunity presents itself.

19:55You talked about the Miles Lewis-Kelley example. I think there was one with Martinelli as well where he ended up getting fouled and got a free kick when he drove forward. Jokeres makes a brilliant run through the left half space and Martinelli just drives with it and runs with it forwards rather than looking up, seeing the player running ahead of him and playing. because it's such a basic of football. The ball can move faster than we can run and we don't utilize that physics enough. And it seems so frustrating at times when you see the play open up and you can see the moves as if it's like you're playing a video game and you're sitting there with your virtual controller in your hand going, they're not passing it, but I'm pressing pass on my controller.

20:32Triangle, triangle, triangle. And it's that frustration sometimes watching Arsenal where you see the move, but they don't. And obviously it's easier from the perspective sometimes as a supporter looking from, you know, meters and meters in there. High up, yeah. And with that advantage that you can see things that they necessarily can't see and they're on the ball and they have to make loads of decisions and they've got Arteta barking at the sidelines and they have Arteta in their minds from the training session the day before about what the expectations of them are. But, you know, sometimes I just wish that the players were given maybe a little bit more freedom and that there wasn't as much maybe rigidness about the expectations of each player's role and how the shape's meant to be in certain zones and certain phases of play and arsenal have been very good at dominating games and very good at controlling games and coming out of a game going well we had all the possession there and we had all the chances there but we've not won the game and that's because and we saw it yesterday in some ways like you look at Villarreal's goals their first goal comes from a shot from outside the box that hits the post and eventually leads to a cross that Pepe puts in.

21:38Their second goal is an excellent ball that takes three players out of the game, down the left flank, before they eventually get the board into the box. And again, it forces a good save, but there's a rebound that they score. And the third goal comes from a moment that I wish Arsenal would create more often, which is where a quick ball goes in behind, catches a high line up the pitch, and Dan Juma finishes excellent. It's an excellent finish, but he gets into that position. And we now have a centre-forward in Jokere who I feel will thrive in those moments. And my biggest fear, you know, I remember we've done a few shows on each other's channels talking about the centre-forward role before we signed that player.

22:10And I always leant towards Sesko because I felt as though that his profile was perhaps better suited to the way that we currently play and that it would be easier to bring in a talented young player that's still got room to grow and develop into a system that maybe is better suited to them. But by bringing in Jocheres, who I'm delighted that we've got him, it's not a complaint that we've signed him, But by bringing in a Jokeres at 27 years of age, who has less kind of ceiling to grow into as a player, less adaption as a player, that we are going to have to change to him. Now, Arteta has changed his style over the last five years, I think, from when he first came in and adopted that 3-4-3 system and became more rigid defensively to solve those problems and then gradually broke out into more of a control-based dominant side that would break the scoring record and the winning records in 23-24.

22:59We have done that. But now we have a traditional number nine. It's almost like we've been playing with false nines, with Havertz and to a lesser extent, Jesus as well, that we have to play differently now, that we have this more traditional spearhead type number nine. Until we've learned how to do that, we won't see the best from him or the players around him as well.

23:23Tom Canton: Yeah, no, I think that's right. I think that's absolutely right. His game demands that you play to his strengths. You know, it just seems mad that you wouldn't consider that. And I'm sure it is, of course, something that they have considered. And look, he played an hour yesterday and 15 minutes against Spurs in Hong Kong, which I don't think he can read much into beyond the fact it was like, get him on the pitch. You know, here he is. And let the fans welcome him on. Whereas I think we're in the sort of the business end of preseason now. It does take time for things to change. You know, the question people will have is like, because of the pursuit of control and the fact we're very good at control, people will say or people will ask, you know, is Mikel Arteta open to that kind of change?

24:21Tom Canton: Is he willing to change his game plan? Because I think a lot of what we saw in preseason and certainly yesterday felt very, very familiar to a lot of people. It felt like last season, right, where we sort of huffed and puffed. I looked at the stats. We had 17 shots yesterday. Didn't feel like it. No, it didn't. Same with the Spurs game in Hong Kong. We had 16 shots. It really didn't feel like it. So statistically, if you look at the numbers, do we need to sacrifice something of quantity for quality when it comes to the chances that we're making? And how do we go about that? And is that something Arteta is willing to do?

25:02Tom Canton: You could argue as well, you could say the flip side of that is by virtue of signing someone like Jokeres, by virtue of signing someone like Nani Madweke, who is a high-volume final third guy who is, for want of a better word, I don't want to say greedy, but he wants to dribble, he wants to shoot, he wants to cross, he wants end product in his game. For better or worse, sometimes decisions could be a little bit better. So some will say the fact that he's actually signed those players or those players have been brought into the club suggests that that is something that he wants to do and something that he wants to implement.

25:42Tom Canton: and therefore we need a little bit of time to see how those things can come together. Yeah, I think there's a really good point about the 17 shots feeling like it wasn't 17 shots because I feel that was a story of a lot of last season. The amount of press conferences that I was in where Arteta himself would reference, you know, XG, would reference the domination, would reference the control and perhaps allude to his surprise that we'd not won games. and if you you know often one of the things i do after a game is i'll go on to x and go on to xg philosophy's account and see what our xg was compared to the opponent and most of the time we have a higher xg than our opponent in every game but that's mainly because we create a high volume of low quality chances and those add up throughout a game and so your xg adds up and so So you eventually, most of the time, will have a higher XG than your opponent.

26:38And the oppositions are having lower XG. The PSG, you know, Clash is a great example, you know, last season, where we ended up with a better XG than them. And Arteta ended up calling, you know, Donnarumma the man of the match across the two fixtures. But the players of the game were the players that finished the chances for PSG across those two legs. You know, be that Dembele with his chance in the first game, be that with Fabian with his volley from outside the box in the second you know these were chances that were not necessarily high in terms of xg but they were taking their opportunities they were taking the chance to have a shot from outside the box

27:13Tom Canton: they weren't high quality high quality finishing versus high quality chances yeah and now we have a player who can finish with quality and we have others that can do that as well in bakaya saka if we can get them into those positions to be able to take those chances we've got them perhaps in a young player coming off the bench who can get into those positions. Ethan Winery is one of the best finishers from outside the box I've seen in recent years with some of the goals that he's produced for us. But there's that age-old saying, you know, whenever we sign a player, there's almost a joke that it's, oh, well, that'll be coached out of them soon.

27:47Because that's almost how it feels at times. That they don't take these risks. They don't take these moments. And I want to see more invention and I want to see more exuberance and flair and maverick nature from our players sometimes.

28:01Tom Canton: Well, that was my big takeaway from yesterday's game. And I know Ebereche Eze is kind of on everybody's mind and he is, you know, sort of held up now as the solution to Arsenal's problems. I'm not sure, you know, how much interest there is. If Arsenal are looking for a left winger, I really don't think it's going to be Eze at all. It might be a different player if we get another player in. I'm not sure if that will happen, obviously, between now and the end of the window. But my main takeaway from that game was this is an Arsenal team that in central areas really needs a bit more creativity, a bit more craft, somebody to burst between the lines, somebody to not just make a final pass, but to beat a man.

28:50Tom Canton: and I don't know that we've got that particular player in the team, certainly in that left eight position. I think Declan Rice does a very, very good job. We know that he's a great ball carrier. When he gets going, he's like my lovely horse running down the wing with his fetlocks flowing in the wind, and he's brilliant, but he's not really the skillful guy, right? I think he's done a really good job at left eight, But you look at the other guys, Mikel Marino, you know, decent player, but he's not going to give you too much of that. Kai Havertz, if he plays there, you know, he's more of a link man, isn't he?

29:30Tom Canton: He's somebody who slots in there. He's not going to beat people with a dribble. And my takeaway from yesterday's game, and actually from, I guess, last season as well, and what we've seen in preseason so far, is that there is room for somebody else in those central areas to add something different to this Arsenal team. Yeah. And you know what we often end up doing is we often end up comparing ourselves to City and Liverpool because they're our main two contenders. and I watched a bit of Liverpool the weekend, the other days on Monday against Athletic Club and what I found really interesting is with the signing of Florian Wurtz, you know, before he joined Liverpool, I was a really big fan of Dominik Zoboslein when he was at RB Leipzig and previous to that of Rebel Salzburg and we were linked to him quite heavily at one point and I was really kind of hoping that he might sign for Arsenal and when Wurtz signed for Liverpool, I was thinking, I wonder now what happens to him because Wurtz is an attacker midfielder, yes, he can play in forward lines as well but he's going to offer them a lot in that final third as a midfield option.

30:31Does this mean Zoboslai gets demoted to the bench? Well, against Athletic Club, Arnaz Slott has moved Zoboslai into a slightly more number eight position to play with Wurz and have Gravenberg behind. And if anything, I saw more from Zoboslai in that game, in that role than I had for him playing slightly further upfield. And that's a really big worry as an Arsenal fan, that that new structure of the Liverpool midfield uses Wurz and Zoboslai to attack. And, you know, when Rice arrived at Arsenal, I was like, okay, we might have finally signed our Rodri. We might have signed our number six as the anchor to our midfield to be the number six going forwards.

31:09And I'm not saying he can't be an eight because I think he's a good eight. And I think he's a really good player in that position. And he plays that role really well. And every season he's been at Arsenal, he's scored more and more goals. He's trending in an upward trajectory. But there's still this nagging part of me that thinks that if we had Odegaard and a genuine goal-scoring midfielder alongside him with either of Rice or Zubemendi, who is an excellent number six, and I cannot wait to see what he brings to this team as well, then Arsenal could potentially go up another level with what they've got in midfield, which is why the Eze stuff, you know, and potentially adding him to a midfield, not in place of Odegaard, but more so in place of Rice actually as kind of an extra attacking central figure in this team excited me.

31:52Now, if you were to say to me, if you're a better man, would you say Eze's going to come? My honest answer is at the moment, no. No, I'd agree with that. I don't think Eze will end up at Arsenal this summer. And I know that may come as a surprise to a lot of Arsenal fans because it feels like all of the noise, all the whipping up of the stories. You know, I'm guilty of it. I produce content every day around transfers and we talk a lot about Eze as a result. So it's not me white knighting this or anything like that. It's just there are aspects to transfers when it's kind of like there's three parties involved.

32:25You know, there's the two clubs and then there's the player and the player side. And each of those three parties have desires around the moves and what they want to do. And that could lead to stories. That can lead to, you know, information coming out. And I think that from an Arsenal perspective, the sense I get is that the focus right now is on outgoings and selling players. And then we see what happens with that. And then we may move for somebody else. I think in particular, you know, Leo Trossard's future is a big part of that and what we do in the time that remains in this window. And if he goes, I think that could spark something.

32:57I also think pre-season has had an impact on, you know, you get to know your squad, you get to see what's available to you, you get to know what you think you need. I think Wernary and you have to say Max Downwind's performances, I think will be in the mind of Arteta as well. And I think that that shouldn't necessarily be, initially you'll be like, oh, it's like a new signing. That classic saying of, you know, players coming into the team is like, but they are players that you have to have a thought process of and have thought about. And we all, I mean, most of us would have said going into this window that beyond the centre-forward role and beyond defence midfield, which we knew were two areas we were going to need to strengthen in, we knew the left-hand side was an area that we wanted to see a player signed in.

33:33And if we're honest, and I love Eze, and I think he can play in a left-sided role, but he isn't a left-winger. Like, that's not what, he's not a left-winger. And so if Leo was to go, I'd be interested to see what Arsenal do. The other, there are two other names that have been predominantly on the list with them, and that's been Rodrigo and Anthony Gordon. I'd also be very surprised if either of them two ended up, you know, at Arsenal this summer. But there's still part of me in my mind that thinks that there's another attacking signing there for Arsenal this window that I think would make this a very successful window.

34:08I think it is a very good window so far. We've made six really good signings. And it almost feels greedy to be like wanting a seventh after you've signed six with too many close to spent. But there is a sense that if there is an area of this team right now that just isn't quite giving us what I think we need to win a title or a Champions League, it's probably on the left wing, to be brutally honest.

34:31Tom Canton: Yeah, no, I agree based on the squad that we have at our disposal right now. I think my personal preference, and it's just that, my personal preference would be to have someone like Eber Echeze in that left eight position with a Rice or Zubamendi sitting in behind. But I don't think when you've got Rice, when you've signed Zubimendi and you've signed Norgard, Rice has to play in that left eight because he's£105 million signing. and we have seen over the course of Mikel Arteta's tenure that he likes a particular profile of player in that left eight position for better or worse whether it's Granit Xhaka being redeployed there whether it's Declan Rice whether it was Kai Havertz who we think was bought to play there but repurposed to good effect by the way as a centre forward Mikel Moreno you know they're similar look at them all tall three of them are left footed And, you know, that's what he wants in there.

35:41Tom Canton: He wants presence in there. He wants somebody crashing into the box from that position. Personally, again, I like a little more craft, a little more creativity. You know, it's not to say that those guys can't be effective there, but it's just my own personal preference. Like if you have a six like Zubimendi, I think that gives you the perfect platform for having two eights or two tens or whatever you want to call them, left and right of him in midfield. And I feel like that's kind of where we're missing something. But based on the squad that we have right now, if we are looking to unlock something, if we are looking to do something a little bit different, then the only real scope we have to do that is on the left wing.

36:26Tom Canton: That's where I think we are with this. And that's easier said than done, I think, based on who's available, who's in the market, the players that we have right now people will say sell trossard sell martinelli it's all well and good saying seldom but to who and for how much like is the market there for those players maybe trossard doesn't look like there's anybody really interested in in martinelli and then it's a question of replacing him so there is i think a little bit of of work to do from an attacking perspective i want to move away from this though because i did want to go back to what we were talking about with regards control does it worry you a little bit that for all of our focus on that we have looked a bit defensively uncertain because i think it's been the platform for two seasons now defensively we had the best record in the premier league last season the problem was we did not score enough goals for reasons we all understand right but if we are focused on control and we're also a bit shaky defensively is that a worry or is this just sort of again pre-season getting things right you know player can make a mistake here here there you know it has been a little bit of a feature of pre-season that defensively we haven't looked a hundred percent yeah I think that's fair I think uh you know you mentioned last season you know we didn't score enough goals but we also lost too many points in winning positions, you know, by conceding goals.

37:57And that really cost us, probably cost us a title, arguably, if you know, if you're able to hold on to your leads, you're picking up a hell of a lot more points. That sounded a little bit Michael Owen. But you know, you are picking up a hell of a lot more points and making sure that you don't have games like we did against Aston Villa where you're two new up and you concede two goals. You know, they're big moments, especially when it could be as fine a margin as it was in the 23-24 season for example so I think that a lot of it has to do obviously the absence of Gabriel for the majority of pre-season I know ironically we did concede with Gabriel on the field but that was really his first appearance in a official pre-season game rather than behind the closed doors game against Watford which he played 45 minutes in we had a very high line for that third goal it's been something about Myles Lewis again and it's always hard when you talk about players like Lewis because we were talking about an 18 year old player who's still got so much more to mature in his game so much more to learn and he's playing a role where Arteta's kind of seen him as a midfielder in the youth team and also as a left back as well and then saw that he got potential to play this role because it inverts into midfield for him a lot in his system but it does mean that he gets caught out and he and I think he gets caught out and he's positioning at times that ball in behind definitely saw us get caught out and it was kind of played in between the the left center half gabriel and lewis skelly and there was not really any chance to get back and I think kepper's positioning was also a bit off for that goal as well.

39:17He probably should have come and I think Rea may have been a bit more aggressive and further up the field and probably got there instead and that's why they can play that high line because Rea plays up but then if you lose the ball, even though I thought it was a foul against Spurs, then you can get punished with a chip shot over the top. So defensively, I look at us and I think we've got a bit of a trade-off I think this season because Partey out, Zubemendy in. Zubemendy is less of a defensive kind of work rate type number six as opposed to what Part A was. You know, I think that Part A offered a lot of progression, obviously.

39:52But I think defensively, you can say pretty fairly that he was offering more defensively than what I think Zubemendy will. But the argument is that because Arsenal are a possession-based team, we'll have more of the ball. So if we have a better possession-based number six in Zubemendy, we'll have a higher upside on that side of things than on the other side. But I think we're going to have to accept that there are going to be moments where we are turned over this season and we are punished and concede as a result of that. We've just got to hope those upsides of having, say, Zubemendi in that role and what he brings from an offensive standpoint outweighs significantly what we lose, perhaps, in the defensive shielding from what we've lost.

40:31So I think there's things that have been out of our control, like Gabriel's absence, like Timber's absence, but there's still issues that have persisted from the previous campaign, even when we had Gabriel and Saliba. Saliba last season had moments where he didn't look as short. But I actually think he's had a pretty good preseason, Saliba.

40:49Tom Canton: No, I agree. I agree. I mean, I will just say that I think with regards to the change at No. 6,

41:01Tom Canton: Partey's defensive qualities were, for me anyway, a little bit overrated. You mentioned that Aston Villa game last season. I think he was poor in that game for both of those goals. and I think Zubimendi is a different kind of defender. It's not that he can't defend or doesn't defend. I think he is a different kind of defensive midfielder in terms of how he operates. I think Gabriel and Timber coming back is a positive from yesterday and I think we have to acknowledge that. Whether they're ready for the start of the season, we'll have to wait and see, but it's good to see them back. Those were their first minutes of preseason.

41:33Tom Canton: Timber had an ankle operation. Gabriel, we know, had that big hamstring operation and he looks to be on his way back. It's a big decision for Mikel Arteta, and one we can talk about probably next week with regards who he starts and who's going to get the nod at Old Trafford. But I do want to talk about a real positive, and I feel sort of slightly ridiculous talking about a 15-year-old in this way because we all know the age. We all understand that that has to be a consideration in terms of how we view the player, how we discuss him, and what we can realistically expect from him, right? But when a 15-year-old comes on in every preseason game and is certainly up there with your best and most impactful players in those games, you have to sort of sit up and take notice and realize that you're seeing something.

42:36Tom Canton: i don't want to use this word lightly but it is extraordinary like extraordinary it's it's not normal for a 15 year old to come on and do what he does yesterday he came on i think within a couple of minutes he'd done a shimmy over on the right hand side and you could just hear the like from the crowd because it's it's fun to watch he's fun to watch he makes things happen he makes the team better, which is mad. It's completely mad that we're talking about a 15-year-old in that way. And again, I'm trying to find the balance between respecting his age and the duty of care that Arsenal have to a 15-year-old, but also what we are all seeing with our own eyes.

43:26Tom Canton: Because we can all have our differences about football, right? We can all have, you think this, I think that, you know, we can argue the toss about this player, that player, that move, this manager, that manager. There would probably be something in the, as close as you would ever get to consensus among Arsenal fans right now about Max Dahman and what we're seeing from him in that it is slightly incredible, slightly ridiculous and very, very fucking exciting. Yeah. You know, one of the things I was most looking forward to yesterday was just the roar from the crowd when Jokeres came up, his name was announced.

44:02The Raw, when Downwind's name was announced, was as loud. And that's staggering. Like, that is mental, really, when you think about it. Like, a guy who has sold more shirts than anyone else since signing for the club and breaking those records, and then a 15-year-old comes off the bench and gets the same reaction after just making some substitute appearances, people seeing clips of him playing for the youth team. There is an excitement there that there was obviously excitement about other young players, like Pakai Saka, obviously, but he kind of broke into things more 17, 18 type of age bracket.

44:40He wasn't doing it at 15. And the reality is, I think, of football is that football overall as a sport in terms of youth development has evolved. We are seeing players break onto the senior stage at a younger age, at a ridiculous level in a number of positions. Sure. like William Saliba as a centre-half. It's not been normal to see a defender that young be that good and that consistent over a number of years. You know, we're seeing it a little bit with Dean Howzen, I think, now who's got that move to Real Madrid at 19 for a centre-half. I think there's context to different positions in age as well on fields.

45:15And then, obviously, there's the Laminya Mal thing that gets brought up. It just gets brought up because it's impossible not to bring up because you're talking about a player that did break into Barcelona's first team at 16 into the Spanish national side and win a Euros at that ridiculously young age. And it normalizes it for a lot of people. And it's a case of, well, if you're seeing it happen over there, why can't it happen over here? Sure. And the thing about Downman and the link with Arteta in particular, and I think I mentioned this before on the show with you, is that there's times where I'll ask Arteta a question about that area of the field, and he'll bring up Max's name without provocation.

45:52He'll talk about him without being prompted. I remember asking him a question about the depth that he has to Martin Odegaard's position after loaning out Vieira and not bringing in a player. And he would say, well, we've got Odegaard, we've got Ethan, and we've got Max. At that point, he'd not played a senior game. He'd only trained with the first team. And to be bringing his name up in context like that is... And I think if it was up to Arteta, he'd probably prefer the hype was less, but it's his fault as well to an extent to be, you know, so open to talking about him, but also utilising him so much.

46:27He also mentioned after the game yesterday that he said that he's going to have a bit of a break and he needs a holiday. So I don't know if he will be involved at Old Trafford. I think he'd be mad if he wasn't really in the squad.

46:35Tom Canton: I think I agree. Like, you know, based on what we've seen so far in pre-season, he has earned a place on the bench, even if that means leaving a more senior player out. I think what's fascinating about this and what you say about Arteta and the way he mentions him and clearly what they've done in this pre-season is demonstrate to this player, we believe in you, we trust you, we are willing to give you minutes in games, albeit preseason games against senior opposition. It is a precarious situation for Arsenal because he is 15. He cannot even sign scholarship terms until the end of December. So in that kind of timeframe, there are always sharks circling, right?

47:23Tom Canton: There are other clubs who will look at Max Damon and think, whoa, yeah, we'll have a bit of that. And when a player isn't tied down to a contract and when they're that young, you really have to work hard to sort of keep them and to show them that there is this progression and pathway. And I think Arsenal have been very, very obviously doing that with Damon. And I think the story about Jack Wilshere coming back as the under-21 coach is interesting in that context, too, because there was some reporting around… Disappointment that he left. Yeah, I think your mileage might vary on whether or not that was newsworthy at the time.

48:08Tom Canton: What the Max Damon camp or family thought of Jack Wilshire leaving Arsenal to take up an opportunity at Norwich to get some more senior experience under his belt. Is that the kind of thing that should be in the news? but it was and it is and it suggests that there is a connection between Daman and Wilshire and look he's pushing for first team minutes but he's also 15 and 6 years below the under 21 age limit as well so he's way ahead of schedule for most 15 year olds it does feel like there is going to be under 21 football in his season right we hope to see him in the first team but he's got to develop still there are things that Arsenal have a duty of care as I said you know physically he's got to mature and grow up and and there is experience that you can garner from playing under 21s football as well because you're still way above your your your age group right so Wilshire coming back in there as as part of that you know obviously we all hope Jack is is great for the under 21s he loves the club he's an Arsenal man and he's gone and got more coaching experience so we hope it all works out in in that regard but you know sort of going back to down and going back to old trafford like i think you give yourself a better chance of winning that game with a squad that has max down and in it based on what we've seen not just from him but from some of the other players so far this preseason who haven't been quite as on their game as you might like.

49:47Yeah. I think it's important also to look at Lewis Skelly and Wineri's volume of appearances for 121s because they didn't play for them many times. They mainly went from the under 18s into the senior setup.

50:00Tom Canton: But at 17, 18 rather than 15. Of course. Of course. But the point being obviously that under 21s football is not necessarily a necessity to go from the under 18s and then jump from that level because players that are playing in the under-18s that are of a special calibre do go very quickly into the senior setup. And Daumann, I expect, will have that. If it's a case of he's on the bench and doesn't really get too many minutes, for instance, because Arsenal win games, you know, are dominant and Arteta doesn't necessarily want to risk playing him. I think the argument that we don't play him as much because we're scared of exposing him to the world is a stupid argument because there's not a club in the world that doesn't know about him.

50:45There's not a scout in the world that doesn't appreciate him. There's not a club that hasn't been made aware of that talent that isn't going to be on the edge of their seat if an opportunity arises to potentially steal him away from Arsenal. So he's known. The hype is there. I'm sorry, Mikel, but you're not keeping... It's not a case of still turning the jack in the box. It's out. You know, and you may as well now do everything within your power to showcase that pathway, to showcase that opportunity, to showcase that Arsenal is the place where you need to be. And I think that a lot of work has already happened prior to him breaking through with Wuneri and Lewis Skelly and Saka and Smith-Rowe and Ketia.

51:30You know, players that have got plenty of opportunities that have been rewarded with very, very favourable contracts as a result of their progression and integration into the senior setup. but yeah the world's kind of max his oyster you know at this stage really and yeah he can really do whatever he wants and I imagine that he will but it's exciting that again Arsenal have produced a very exciting young player and that is the record of the academy and you have to give credit of course again it's important to give these people their credit you know Adam Birchow of course and the under 18s coach and Per Matazaka the head of academy and the other people involved with that they do deserve credit for the work that's gone on in helping to develop produce and and look after you know at that age it's a lot it's not just about the football it's about the off-field stuff as well looking after these players they still have to go to school yeah they still have to be yeah they have to be educated they have to learn about the world like they're not adults and the mentality i mean i'm trying to put my mindset to back when i was a 15 year old you know it's just those years between you know i'm speaking you know i'm coming out as i used to be a teacher obviously before i was in journalism so i've kind of got that that safeguarding kind of head on and thinking about like the development of what children go through from a young age to adulthood you know having taught year sevens all the way through until there were six formers the development of a person through those years is massive you change more in those years than you will do from 18 onwards because those years are massively formative in how you develop your personality and who you are as a person so it's a credit to arson football club i think not just with downman but with all of their youth players, how they look after them.

53:04Tom Canton: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, they do have those obligations. You know, 15, I was sitting in a park with my mates drinking cans of Bulmers. You know, I wasn't anywhere close to playing first team football for anybody, let alone Arsenal. So yeah, it's a remarkable story. What we're witnessing is something a little bit special, a little bit different. So let's see how it plays out. A couple of quick things to finish us off. We got a first glimpse of Nani Madweke, who came on on the left-hand side. Mikel Arteta talked afterwards about how he is a player who he sees as able to play on both sides. I did think it was quite interesting.

53:41Tom Canton: You know, Dowling came on first, came on for Saka, which is where he is impressed during preseason. But that left that other change on the left-hand side with Madweke coming on for Gabriel Martinelli. He hasn't had a lot of training. He's had sort of an extended summer break. We know he cut his break a bit short to get down to training at Arsenal because he wants to be ready and he wants to start early days. But, you know, did you see bits and pieces that you like from him beyond obviously missing the penalty, which was about the most predictable thing of all time in the penalty shootout? I was like, oh, he's 100 % going to miss this after everything that's been said.

54:18Tom Canton: But, you know, there were bits and bobs, weren't there, in terms of how he plays and what he can bring to the left-hand side that is different from Trossard, that is different from Martinelli by virtue of the fact he's a left-footed player, He's quick, direct, wants to run at people. It's not always going to work, but, you know, lean into those qualities and you might get some reward. Yeah, no, it's refreshing, I think, is the word I'd use to have him in the side, you know, as a left footer on the left flank. You know, I think a player like Jokeres will benefit, you know, from that. Because especially if we're a player on the transition, as we've been talking a lot about, it's much easier to play a left-footed pass on the left side through the lines to an on-rushing centre-forward than it is a right-footed pass from the left-hand side.

54:59Because you typically tend to have to either play it with the outside of your foot, which is a lot more difficult, or you have to cut back, slow down, and then hit it with your right foot through the lines instead, unless you're really talented, which these players are, of course. But it's basic. It's easier to play a left-footed pass from the left side. But I like the fact that he got into those positions, was trying to get low-driven balls into the box, or he tried a cross as well, which Mourinho hadn't caught up because he's very slow and hadn't yet got into the box for that particular cross.

55:27And I think it ended up going up to down and on the right-hand side and we ended up getting a corner from it anyway. But it's just that difference. The word I've wanted, there's two things I've wanted from Arsenal this season that I want to see changes. And that one is the word variety. I want to see variety in how we attack. I want to see differences in how we attack opponents. I want us to be less predictable. And the other element, and this isn't a plug for the athletic, but I'd like to see the handbrake come off. I'd like to see us take the handbrake off. And I would like us to really just go for teams.

55:58And I think Maduweke's style in which he takes players on and he's got a great record at, you know, take-ons. You know, I think he ranks in... I was looking at the statistics the other day in terms of successful take-ons. Martinelli ranks in the 54th percentile for successful take-ons in Europe's top five leagues. Leandro Trossard ranks in the 33rd percentile for successful take-ons in the top five leagues. Maduweke is in the 74th. It's not the 80s, 90s, but it's still more. But he ranks in the 99th percentile for progressive carries per 90. He takes the ball forward. He's in the top 1 % of players for that statistic in Europe's top five leagues.

56:36And in particular in those wide areas, we need players that can take players on, can beat a man, get a ball into the box, but also be a little bit more urgent in how they play and get the ball into the box sooner and not have to drive to the byline before doing that. He can do that very well. But yeah, Arteta was asked after the game, Harry Simu from BBC Commentary London said, asked him whether he will be playing on the right or left, and Arteta said both. He's like, he can play both, and that's where he'll be using him on both sides.

57:01Tom Canton: All right. We'll obviously wait and see because there's a long season to go, and I don't think the idea of Maduweke playing on the left-hand side 100 % precludes any kind of new arrival, by the way. I just think it is an option that he has available to him. not the most notable thing but I did take note of the fact that Rhys Nelson was not in the squad yesterday he was out there on the tour he did play in the tour there was talk of a move to Fulham and he came on against Spurs in Hong Kong and people were like what's going on? why are you playing him? but he wasn't in the squad yesterday maybe it's a little knock maybe it's something else but certainly one of the players along with Fabio Vieira Albert Sambi-Lukonga as well who should be looking to depart over the coming weeks.

57:50Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's been quite well documented now and long-term, the interest from Fulham, Marco Silva, to my knowledge, is a really big fan of Rhys Nelson's. But the logistics of the deal, the discussions that are going on about a potential deal, Arsenal will obviously, as an absolute preference, would prefer a permanent sale of the player. Obviously, the player's injury record leans into Fulham being somewhat cautious and wanting more so alone with an option, you know, so that they can kind of like vet his availability over the course of a season before a permanent move. But maybe there'll be some middle ground eventually found between all parties on that front.

58:26Nelson, I think, to my knowledge, will be very open to the move. He enjoyed his season there. Last season was guided when he got that injury because he was having a good season, I thought, for them, actually. Vieira is an interesting one. We've heard recently about Stuttgart and interest from them and talks over a potential. If Arsenal can get, you know, maybe perhaps slightly over half what they ended up paying Porto in 2022 for him. I think they've probably done quite well if they end up getting over half, but let's keep those fingers crossed. Laconga, I think, is one of those. I remember when he left the loot, and I think it was on the last day of the window a couple of seasons ago, not the Sevilla loan, the one before that.

58:56I imagine something similar will probably end up happening with Laconga. So, I mean, Sevilla had an option of around£10 million to make that permanent. They didn't take that option. And, you know, he's also suffered with injury issues through his career as well. He's a decent player, but he's just one of those transfers that's not worked out but I know Arsenal need to try and move him off the books. Carl Heine as well, but he's got a thumb injury, so that has affected, I think, his potential prospects, but there is interest in him as well. From Spain, I believe, yeah. Yep, so we're hoping that Arsenal get, and if they do succeed, and then there's the Leo thing as well, but if they succeed in moving some of those players on, we might, maybe we'll see a late potential recruit come in.

59:37But again, as I said earlier, I'll be surprised if it's Eze, I'm afraid.

59:41Tom Canton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, listen, I've said it before and I'm sure people know I love the player. I think he's fantastic. Is he exactly what we need on the left wing to make that difference? I don't think so. Not for me anyway. I love him in central areas, not so much out on the wing. But look, who knows what might happen between now and the end of the transfer window. For now though, we better leave it there. Tom, as ever, thank you very much indeed. Really appreciate your time. Yes, absolutely. A pleasure as always, mate.

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1:02:07Tom Canton: That's the place to be. Right, just before we leave it today, I do want to give another plug to our Fantasy Football League, which is available exclusively to our Patreon members. We run this with good prizes. You can win€1 ,000 in cash for first,€500 in cash for second, and there's also€250 for third place, as well as€250 for the winner of the cup competition. If you finish fourth, you get an Arsenal shirt and the now famous fourth place trophy. We also have a prize for finishing last as well. So if you fancy doing that, you can get on board with some spot prizes throughout the season as well.

1:02:46Tom Canton: And if you're a Patreon member, you also get access to all the extra content that we do throughout the season, a preview podcast for every game. We have the 30, which is our Premier League Roundup podcast and lots more besides. You can sign up at patreon.com forward slash arseblog for more details, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. It costs$6 a month or equivalent, plus VAT, where applicable. That is out of our hands. And it also goes a long way to supporting everything that we do on Arseblog, our ad-free websites and apps, our coverage of Arsenal, women, all the free-to-air podcasts, et cetera, et cetera.

1:03:20Tom Canton: So if you feel like supporting that, being a Patreon member is exactly how you can do that. Right. I'm going to leave it there. Have yourselves a great weekend. Very curious to see what happens in the game against Athletic Bilbao on Saturday. That is something that James and I will discuss on the Arsecast Extra on Monday. For now, though, thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here and for listening. It's hugely appreciated. Take it easy, folks, and we will catch you on the next one.

1:04:08you

1:04:32Thank you.

1:05:02Tom Canton: Sky Sports news and there was controversy in the Premier League after Arsenal fielded four-year-old Tony Basil McCringleberry in a game against Manchester United at Old Trafford. The youngster came off the bench to score the winning goal for Mikel Arteta's side, but the controversy is not about the fact a four-year-old is playing men's football, but his interview with Sky Sports after the game. Asked about his impact from the bench, He told Patrick Davison, and I quote, You are a big poopy head with a head full of poop, and your poop has poo in it, and you drink your own wee. Quite how he knew those things remains to be seen, but Sky Sports are taking this very, very seriously.

1:05:49Tom Canton: We will uncover the mole within our organization. We won't be beaten by a four-year-old. Unlike Manchester United. it. We're going to take a quick commercial break now. When we return, Granit Xhaka insists, yes, he did know that Sunderland was a real place.

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