Episode 842 - Depth

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0:57ArseBlog.com right here on arseblog.com. I've forgotten what I say next. You would think after all these episodes, I would absolutely have that damn pat, but no, I've completely forgotten. Something, something. Thank you for being here. Hope you're well. What the hell? My mind has gone completely blank. That's ridiculous. I guess I could just go back to an old one and listen. But you know, hey, maybe we need a bit of variation around here. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe we haven't had enough intro variation, Not enough depth in introductory areas. You know, like Arsenal, who's going to play on the right wing for Arsenal?

1:35Well, Bakayo Saka. Oh, yeah? But now it's like Bakayo Saka or Nani Madweke or Max Downman. Who's going to play on the left for Arsenal? Well, it's going to be one of Trossard or Martinelli and that's it. Oh, but now it could be Nani Madweke or it could be Ebrecheza after he signed. I'm just following the trend here. That's all like some kind of, you know, sheep or lamb or confused goat who thinks it's a sheep. Maybe got hit on the head. Who knows? And they're all like, Steve, get away from those sheep. You're not a sheep. You're a goat. You belong with your own kind in goat town. There's actually a place in Dublin called Goatstown.

2:20It's not renowned for its goats. Anyway, the point is, welcome to the show. I'm glad you're here. I hope you're well. We've got lots to talk about. Arsenal are in action this weekend against Liverpool. That's something to look forward to. There's also a few days left of the transfer window. There might even be one more player arriving before the end of the window. And of course, there's going to be some focus on, well, can we get some players out before the end of the window? We're going to talk about all that. We're going to talk about what we have done in the transfer market to this point, which has been pretty impressive and has left everybody feeling good, squad depth, tactical variety, some players who have captured the imagination already this season.

3:06So we might as well just crack on with today's show. And I'm delighted to welcome back somebody who you will know from his work on Arsenal.com and, of course, a former gunner. It's Adrian Clark. Hi, Adrian. Hello, Andrew. You all right? I am good, thanks very much. You know, I'm trying to remember when I looked at an Arsenal squad and didn't think, you know what, we could just do with this guy or that guy. Can you, in your long memory, remember a squad quite as in-depth, if that's the right way of putting it, as the one that has been assembled by Arsenal so far this summer? No, no, absolutely.

3:48I can't, no. And it's exactly what we needed because last season we were obviously stretched to the max. And that's where I think ultimately we did fall down. So the mission this summer was definitely to beef up the squad. And when you look at the options now in each position, it is incredible. What I'd say the big change is that the drop from first choice to backup has shrunk in terms of impact greatly. And that's what you can ask for from Arsenal, really, to address that. So, yeah, really excited. I just hope we don't need the flimmin' squad depth as much as we did last year because, I mean, the way it started with these injuries to key players is a bit of a nightmare.

4:35So hopefully our bad luck ends here. Well, I think it does speak to how comfortable people are feeling about the squad depth when we've got maybe four or five injuries on paper. We'll wait and see what happens with Martin Odegaard for this weekend. But Odegaard, Saka, Ben White missing, Christian Norgard missing, and there's one more. Kai Havertz, of course. And people aren't freaking out going into a game this weekend at Anfield. I mean, I think everybody would prefer if those guys were available, but I think there was a time when, you know, if you missed those players, you'd have brown trousers at this point thinking about Sunday, right?

5:14So on that basis, the squad depth is second to none, I think, maybe in terms of the Premier League or even, as I said, what we've seen at Arsenal. And there are aspects to this I'd like to delve into with you. Let's start with a really positive aspect that it does give you the ability to deal with injuries, absences, suspensions, as we've seen. but it also allows a manager to widen or perhaps expand the tactical variation that he can use throughout the course of the season. So beyond it being a way of having a safety net for players who got injured, and we know how much that impacted us, Do you think there's a secondary or maybe even the primary driver for this kind of squad depth is that it gives Mikel Arteta options from front to back?

6:11Yeah, it's just as important. Definitely. And it's the reason why Mikel Arteta wants to sign multifunctional players. I mean, most of the guys that he's brought in since he's arrived at the club can play in two or three different positions. He's not really a manager that's focused on a position. He prefers skill sets, doesn't he? And what he's got now is a real vast array of them. And the big positive, the big positive, and I think we're starting to see it with those really early days, is that you now can't second guess what he's going to do in terms of the formation, in terms of who's going to play where on a game-to-game basis, which is great news for us because opposition managers don't know.

6:58They don't know what to expect. Previously, it was kind of, you knew. You just knew what the team would be. You know where everyone would play. Now, we've got a 4-2-3-1 instead of that 4-3-3. We've had last season a 4-4-2 at times, which worked pretty well. We've seen wingers play on both sides, which is a new development. Rice playing in different roles as well. So, yeah, there's lots of changes. And I think we needed it. And, yeah, I'm excited to see how courageous Mikel Arteta will be this season in terms of chopping and changing the way we play. You know, it might be difficult to sort of go from one thing in one game to one thing in another game.

7:44It requires a lot of work on the training ground. And as we know, as the season goes on, And your time on the training ground becomes less and less because basically you're playing, recovering, playing, recovering when you get into the nuts and bolts of the Champions League and stuff like that. But is it easier to implement small tactical changes when you have players who are adaptable? Like you have your specialists, like Victor Jokerez is a striker. And look, he has played on the left in his career, but I don't think that's where Arsenal are going to play him. But around that and behind that, you do have players who can play, as you say, in multiple positions.

8:19That includes our defenders. It includes our midfielders. So if you do want to do something a little bit different, is it easier for a manager or a coach when he knows he has players who are not going to be taken out of their comfort zone by being asked to do something slightly different from one week to the next? Miles better. Yeah, it's miles better for the manager, isn't it? Of course it is. Yeah, no, I wouldn't advocate going from one style of play to a completely opposite of the next. I think it's incremental. But the main thing is really, it's in-game. And I think if you could level a criticism at Mikel Arteta outside of the sort of silverware aspect, it probably is, has he impacted enough matches and turned them around enough times during his senior?

9:08Luckily, we haven't been behind loads of times because we've been good sparse starters. But when we have fallen behind at times, we haven't turned that ship around have we but by having these adaptable players by being able to make a little tweak here and there without it freaking the players out yeah i do think we now he he now has the tools to just modify things in game yeah and i think that's what all the the great managers are able to do they see the picture they make the change it turns the game on its head. And I think that's the next phase, isn't it, really, for him as a manager? Yeah, that's kind of what I was going to ask you next was that in-game aspect.

9:50And I remember being at the Villa game last season when we were 2-0 up and Villa brought it back to 2-2 and you were looking for something from the bench. And ultimately, I think Mikel Arteta brought Raheem Sterling on with about eight minutes to go because he had to do something, but that was basically all that he had at his disposal. I know it's a big if that we might have everybody fit, but even without that, you're looking at a squad where when you look at the bench, when you look at what you might be able to do and how you might be able to change the dynamic of a game, particularly with some of the players who I think this season, and we'll talk about Eberache Eze in a second, but I think he, Nani Madweke and Victor Jocherez are players that you wouldn't 100 % have associated with Mikel Arteta in the way that he is perceived to want the game of football to be played.

10:51So these players, I think, are quite interesting in that they are, they're sort of, I don't want to say they're pushing him out of his comfort zone, but their presence demands that you do things differently, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I think we're on the same page here. I think a lot of Arsenal fans recognise the change. I mean, these guys are runners. They cause a little bit of chaos by being unpredictable. I mean, Jokeres makes runs down the right, down the left, down the middle. You know, he offers something different. He's a maverick and I love that. By the way, he can come off both sides and he's really unpredictable.

11:28So, yeah, it's what the team needs because, let's be honest, nothing's ever perfect. but our off-the-ball work isn't bad, is it? I mean, we have a very, very good defence and, you know, arguably one of the best defences in the world. I don't think we should shy away from that. So if you've got that in place, you don't really need to worry too much about it moving forward. It's like, right, we've got that platform. How do we get better in attack? And the obvious answer is to bring in different types of players. Sure. And that's what he's done. And I'm so happy with the players that we've got. I mean, they're not always going to have blinders every week.

12:08There'll be dips. Ezza, we all love him, but he'll have flat spots this season. But over the long haul of the season, these new guys, I'm really confident they can improve us. Yeah, me too. I want to talk to you about Ezza in a second, but just sort of going back to the squad depth, there is then, if you have that depth, the need to use. And I looked at the EFL Cup draw and I thought, great, I'm not taking anything for granted against Port Vale, but it is the sort of fixture where the manager can feel comfortable changing it all around at the back, for example, and giving a break to Saliba and Gabriel, which he wasn't able to do at times last season, and give players minutes and keep them involved.

12:55Is it going to be difficult for him to keep everyone happy? Because as fans, we're all happy now because we've got this massive squad. But footballers want to play and everybody wants to play. Everybody feels like they're good enough to play. And I think there's a very good case to be made with this Arsenal squad that pretty much everybody, there's one or two, three positions where you go, okay, we've got like absolutely, absolutely, absolutely first choice players here who are a step above who's behind them. But generally speaking, a lot of these guys are going to want to play. Is that going to be a challenge for him?

13:28Or is that the sort of good problem that people talk about a manager having Like you'd rather have that as your problem than the problem of, well, I haven't got anyone. Yeah. Well, did you see our bench at times last year? I'm sure. Yeah, I know you did. You know, it was really stretched, wasn't it? So, yeah, we can't get too ahead of ourselves. But yeah, definitely he can do it. It's a test. It's a test of his management. It's a test of his people skills. What I will say is that he's not got many egos in the dressing room. I think the guys that you would consider to be backups, and that can obviously always change because there's not a lot between them.

14:08Most of them are in their early 20s, aren't they? Or teenagers somewhere at school. So I think those kind of players, they don't mind. They can accept their part where they are in the food chain, I guess. but having these hungry players in reserve is infinitely better than having an Aubameyang or a Lacazette or a Mustafi or whoever in reserve because senior players are much more likely to get disenchanted, fed up, disruptive, etc. So yeah, it'll be a juggling act, but he can do it. All right, let's talk about Eza. I have a sort of tactical question here from one of our Discord members that I want to put to you.

14:57But like, how did you experience last week? How did you experience that whole thing within the context of what I think anyway was a pretty good window from Arsenal? That it was hard really to complain about the level of investment. You might, everyone has their own opinion on who it should have been or who this signing should have been. But you couldn't really argue against what the club had done in the summer in terms of bolstering the numbers and bolstering quality in certain areas as well. And then this sort of romantic story of a player who'd been released by Arsenal, his back full circle.

15:35I mean, you were in the academy. You must have seen guys who felt the disappointment and the heartbreak of trying to make it at a club you support, a club you love, and then going and coming back. It's very, very rare for something like that to happen, isn't it? And for that player to be as coveted, I suppose, by Arsenal fans as well. It's not like, oh, we're signing this guy. He was in our academy. We'll just throw him a bone here. It's like, we want this guy. So, you know, from your Arsenal supporting head, you know, how did you experience last week and the weekend? I was absolutely buzzing.

16:12I could barely sleep that night when the Ornbaum dropped. Genuinely. I was just buzzing. I told my little kids, they're nine and seven, but they're mad Arsenal fans. They were buzzing because everyone knows that Eze is a great player and just a lovely player to watch. I think he's most people's favourite individual outside of the club that they support just because he's fun to watch. So, yeah, that was great. Being at Emirates for the unveiling was fabulous. Definitely got that sort of tingly feeling and a little bit of a shiver as that happened, which because I think it was because the outpouring was so unusual, but also so was his charisma and smile.

16:59And you could just see that he was a little bit like, whoa, this is even better than I thought it was going to be. And it's nice to see that sort of human side, isn't it? So, yeah, I love the whole process. And obviously the fact that we sort of pinched him from under the nose of spurs just yeah just makes it so much sweeter doesn't it so yeah i never gave up on it i went on certain i went on a few podcasts just in the days leading up to it and talking to transfer experts was on one on talk sports youtube channel ben jacobs who does a lot of work and and we were talking about it was like who if it's not going to be sa which is not going to be now obviously who's it going to be and and and he went through all the options and at the end of it I said I still want Ezra like why can't we make this happen and obviously we did in the end however it came about it doesn't really matter and I do like the fact if it's true that Ezra called Arteta yeah I do also think that that is a brilliant sign of his character because he just thought I've got nothing to lose here this is what I really really want takes a lot of courage to phone up a manager and say, you're absolutely sure that you don't want me because, you know, I will come to you if, if you do, you know, that takes, that takes balls.

18:19Sure. He's sort of big on that. He's big on that, isn't he, Mikel Arteta in terms of, you know, the player's desire to want to be at Arsenal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. Why wouldn't you be? Yeah, exactly. And, and that's why I think your career is over. Seshko was, had to be done because Seshko felt like, The money was more important to him. And Jokeres, it was all about, no, I want to be the difference maker at Arsenal. And yeah, so, and I'll tell you, as a big feels kind of guy, I do think that even though he's quite structured in his football at times, he is quite big on personality and vibes.

18:59And I think he would have got off on the fact that the fans are so into it and that that connection from the academy is there. it would have certainly played, you know, a 5 % part in the interest. You can't imagine Victor Jocares, for example, being 10th to take a penalty in a shootout, can you? Oh, yeah, that was a bit of a bottle job, wasn't it? I mean, didn't he show a lot of confidence, did he, in his own ability? No, I mean, yeah, I mean, if there's one thing Jocares can do, he can smash a penalty. Yeah, it's funny. I had a look at Sesco's penalty records this morning. He's taken 11 penalties in his career and scored them all.

19:39So who knows what was going on there, but very weird, you know, but it's sort of, no, not great. The optics aren't great anyway. There might be more to it than we know, of course, but it doesn't look great. So look, we had a question from our discord, AshRichards90. He says, as the tactics guru, does Adrian think Eze will allow us to tweak our current 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1 with Eze more of a 10 behind the striker? I've seen so much discussion of where is he going to play? What role will he have? Will it be a fixed position? Is he going to be somebody whose versatility is used throughout the season?

20:17So how do you see his pathway into the team on a regular basis, where it might start, where it might end up? And are there things maybe that we don't quite expect from this player or from the way Mikel Arteta sets up his team? Yeah, it's a really good question. I think that there are probably three positions that he can specialise in. If you were to ask him, I reckon he'd like to play number 10. And in my eyes, to my eyes, we have more of a number 10 this season with Rice alongside Zubemmendi, with Erdegaard, definitely a bit more central. I mean, Weneri was absolutely more central when he came on for him the other day.

21:00So I think the 4-2-3-1 is kind of here. but obviously the captain play is there so that that is a slight issue um so i would imagine in in arteta's first choice 11 he he's the left sider but and that's where he played at palace kind of left side number 10 didn't he so what if you look at his heat maps or touch maps for crystal palace i'd say more than half of his touches are really wide really wide so you can he's comfortable doing that. A lot of them are inside his own half because Palace were quite a defensive team, a counter-attacking side. So he has to get involved in and around the halfway line a lot.

21:41So he can do that. But what he's brilliant at is obviously just ghosting in and taking up those sort of infield pockets and carrying the ball. Sure. Or actually not just carrying the ball. If you look back at a lot of the goals or assists he got for Palace, He makes powerful runs beyond defenders as well to get into the box. But I would urge anyone, and I'm writing a piece for the Premier League at the moment ahead of the weekend game, and I might include a graphic of his shots and chances created last season. And what you'll see on it is where they are. And they are almost all within the widths of the goalposts.

22:23And that's for a player that plays on the left. Sure. So what he's great at is getting in and around the D to do something. And I think that's what the team needs. Now, for the balance of the side, that's the concern. That's my only concern was like, oh, we haven't got an overlapping fullback, really. How's that going to work? Well, Califuri's kind of doing that, isn't he? I mean, he's doing his best impression of an overlapping fullback or certainly a buccaneering one. and obviously we've been linked with Hinkapi or Hinkapé, I'm not sure how you pronounce his name, but he's kind of of that ilk as well.

23:00So it's pretty bad news for Myles Lewis Skelly that Eze will be on the left, you know, moving forwards. But that just might mean that he ends up being Zubimendi's sort of competition. Well, yeah, I mean, there's Christian Norgar as well. I mean, I was going to ask you about the left back and whether Eze on the left has an impact on how our left back plays. Because for me, it's been one of those interesting aspects of the last couple of years when Zinchenko started in there. And then we had other players who couldn't really do that job, for example, Kieran Tierney, Jakub Kivior were asked to do it and couldn't do it.

23:38So he had to modify it slightly, but obviously bought Calafiore. Miles Lewis-Galley made his breakthrough last season. is that one of the areas you think that maybe Arsenal have become slightly predictable? Even if you look at Calafuri and go, I'm really not quite sure what he's going to do or where he's going to do it. There is that chaos factor, unpredictability about him. But the left back role itself, as a way of identifying if you're the opposition or you're their analysts, are you looking at that and thinking, okay, we kind of know pretty much what Arsenal are going to do and how they're going to build up in that area of the pitch.

24:17Is that an area where something different might be required or useful to take the team in a different tactical direction? I do think so, yeah. But no one could tell me that Calafuri, Lewis Skelly, or a new player could adapt and be more of an orthodox fullback and keep the width more. I mean, they're all capable of doing that. So it's just what the manager wants. There's no doubt in my mind that every opposition manager now targets the left-back area. They do. You saw it, didn't you, in Bervo? I mean, how many times have Man United switched the ball to in Bervo because Califuria was caught out?

24:59It's not always his fault. It's like he's being bold, but then Arsenal lose possession cheaply. And bosh, they don't even look. They go switch it straight over to that side. Luckily, Gabriel's very good at covering, but he can't always do it. So yeah, no, I wouldn't say it's a weakness, but that strength of the unpredictability, the plus side of being chaotic and creating space for others has a negative. And that's definitely that opponents are going to target that area. And of course, against Liverpool, Mo Salah down that side, I do think potentially for one game only, Arsenal have to temper that enthusiasm a bit.

25:43I'm not saying stop it, but if any team's going to punish us from that, it will be Liverpool. So I'm desperately hoping that Mikel says to Calafuri, if he starts, pick and choose a little bit more carefully in terms of when you go forward. Yeah, I mean, it is an area where Mo Salah has hurt us and hurt lots of teams. And, you know, from Zinchenko to Lewis Kelly, we've seen him be really really effective I mean is it difficult for a manager to say to a player like Califuri I've brought you here to be this kind of buccaneering swashbuckling left back left center back left a whatever you are you know I brought you here to do that but today I want you to sort of not quite do a Martin Keown and stick to Mo Salah because I don't think Califuri is quite quite that guy.

26:39No. But is it difficult for him to sort of say, listen, you know, today we're going to Anfield, it's going to be really tough. Liverpool are the champions. Maybe they haven't been that impressive, but, you know, at the very least we want to come away from here with a point and not get turned over, not lose to Liverpool. The psychological aspect of that. You know, is there a risk-reward element with how brave you are or how cautious you are? Yeah, there's always Well, it's always a risk and reward, isn't it, when you push defenders on. So I don't want him to stop it completely because I do think it helps everybody else.

27:17But you have to have something in place. So, for instance, what you'd say is, look, maybe don't go there as a matter of course, but if you see something on, go for it. But then you say to Declan Rice, as the left-sided centre midfielder, right, Declan, when you see Calafuri go, I need you in at left back. I just need you to slot across and help us in that position. I know that we don't always worry about that, but in this game, we have to. That kind of message maybe would be better. I don't really want to handcuff Calafuri to Salah the whole game, but it would be crazy, I think, to maybe play the way we did against Man United because Liverpool would definitely make us pay.

28:07No doubt about that. You mentioned Myles Lewis-Gelly as somebody who there might be bad news with Calafiore and Incapier coming in maybe if Jakub Kivior goes to Porto. There's depth, there's competition. But what about Gabriel Martinelli now? If Eze is coming in, maybe to play off the left-hand side, We've seen Nani Madweke start there ahead of him already this season. Leandro Trossard has signed a new contract. How's he feeling now? How's he going to react or how should he react to, you know, the competition that's ahead of him or the challenge that's ahead of him? You know, from last season, look, he shared his time with Leandro Trossard quite a bit, but obviously started a lot of games for Arsenal last season.

29:04As a player, how do you react to that sort of shift in the dressing room dynamic where you go, like if you're Kai Havertz and a striker comes in, you know Arsenal are going to buy a striker. You're like, well, season's long. There's going to be lots of game time. I'm ready to work with this guy, but I'm also ready to challenge him. But if you're Martinelli and you're going, well, they've brought him out and everyone loves him now. New signing Madweke is there and Trossard is the experienced senior guy who's going to want to play, who's going to push to play. It's an interesting one to think about.

29:41Definitely, yeah. And maybe how he reacts to that defines what Mikel Arteta does with him. As in, if he doesn't react well to it, if he's upset by it, if he's put out, you know, feels overly disappointed, which is understandable, then maybe it's time to sell. You know, because, but what he's hoping, and what I hope, because I don't really want to lose Martinelli, and not unless it's for a big, chunky fee, I want to see him double down and work harder at his game so that he can get the end product that will get him back in the team. Because that's the only reason he's not in the team. stylistically fits the team brilliantly, but you need more goals and you need more assists if you're going to be Arsenal starting left side forward.

30:32You just do. And he will know that in his heart of hearts. Martinelli knows that his numbers haven't quite been good enough for the last couple of seasons. So he couldn't have been shocked that Madureka and Eze have come here. But every person's different, aren't they? Hopefully it fires him up and he works even harder on the training pitch. But if it goes the other way, then it may be, there'll be a part in other ways. I don't know. I've got no inside info on that. Sure. But I do think if we do lose one biggie, he's probably the current fave, isn't he, I guess? Yeah, I guess it depends who's out there and who's looking and who's available.

31:13I was going to ask you about outgoing, so we might as well talk about that while we're here now. I want to come back to a couple of young players, one of whom might be in school at the time of recording. You know, the incoming business, I don't think anybody can really argue. Nobody can argue that Arsenal have not shown ambition, transfer market efficiency. They've put their money where their mouth is, and you can all see what it's about, right? It's about taking that final step. But there are players who get left behind in situations like that. So people will look at Andrea Berta as the club's new sporting director and say, what a great job he's done in terms of the incomings.

31:56No arguments here. No, no. Brilliant. Can we properly judge a sporting director based only on the incomings or is there a need to look at what he does from an outgoing basis? and do you have let's say you're the sporting director now would you feel in any way like you had not a poison chalice but a difficult job to try and move some of the players that he's being tasked with moving you know Zinchenko on big wages Rhys Nelson Albert Sambi-Lukonga Fabio Vieira there isn't and doesn't appear to be a great deal of interest in those guys There is some, and we're hearing Rhys Nelson and Palace, Stuttgart were reportedly interested in, Fabio Vieira.

32:44Beyond that, it's been relatively quiet. So do you expect that to sort of ramp up in the final few days of the window before it closes on Monday? And when you think about what Andrea Berta has to do, do you have some sympathy that, you know, he's... The fun bit is signing players. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we can all do that. getting rid of players that are sort of out of favour is the less glamorous side of that gig isn't it so he's done the fun stuff straight off the bat got a great reputation with the supporters and yeah it's just part of it yeah it's definitely his role and it's difficult because Arteta doesn't know whether he's going to have these guys or not so he has to keep them motivated and has to keep them in the fold but ultimately you also maybe have to make kind of hard decisions.

33:32And I think sometimes, like with Vicky Vio, we haven't seen him on the bench, have we? He was on the bench for Leeds. Oh, he was, was he? Yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot about that. But sometimes that's a way of getting an indication who's been left off the bench, because you're sending a message to the player that, you know, quite far down the pecking order. Sometimes, yeah, it's not so subtle hints, I guess. We all know why it's hard to shift these players. They love Arsenal, they don't want to move. they're in London they're loving life they're on great money and no one ever wants to leave Arsenal honestly you just don't you want to you want to be a starter at Arsenal and all these players are good players but yeah you'd like to think that two or three of them would think right my time's up I need I need to to move on and yeah I just think Arsenal might have to make some financial sacrifice to smooth the process sure we all know what that means it's sort of subsidising a little bit of the remaining wages just to get that fee in for players that are on such good money.

34:40So, yeah, I think the players that you mentioned, personally, I think they all really need a fresh challenge for their own careers. I agree with that. But to what extent is it the responsibility of the player to say, okay, listen, I like it at Arsenal. The money's good. Life in London is good. It's a brilliant city to live in. The facilities are great. The people are great. I love it here. But I have to play football because I'm 28 and this is maybe my last move. I don't want my career to sort of dwindle away into nothing. Or if you're someone, for example, like Reece Nelson, who I think we still kind of think of as a young player, but he's 25 and might be 26 on his – well, definitely will be 26 on his next birthday.

35:27You know, his career, so promising at academy level, has been punctuated by injuries. And that, I think, might result in a bit of caution from clubs who could otherwise be interested in him. But from his perspective, like at this age, surely you're desperate to go somewhere and play and perform and show everybody what you can do as a footballer. because you're halfway through or, you know, a good chunk of the way through your professional career at 25 years of age, as ridiculous as that sounds. Yeah, well, look what happened to Dele Alli, you know, beyond 25, nothing. You know, so you think players sort of peak at different times as well.

36:10You know, some players' best years are 18, 19, 20, and then it goes downhill from there. It's just the way it goes. Now, yeah, look, from my end, yeah, I'll never forget Arsene Wenger When my contract was running out and he said, look, you're approaching 22. You've had a go in the first team. You did all right. That's before my time. But hand on heart, I've got other players now in your position. You're down the pecking order. At your age, you need to be playing. You don't want to be playing reserve football. And going on loan is a funny life as well because you never really feel like you fully belong.

36:51So, yeah, I absolutely think these guys should go. And do you know what? I think most of the players themselves, in their heart of hearts, would want to. But it's playing the game, unfortunately. There's so much money at stake now, and agents are in the ears of players, and it's like, hold tight, hold tight. We'll get you a better deal, you know, if you sit tight and don't make a fuss. Do you know what I mean? I just think that there's a lot of outside interest that maybe clouds things. Players, it's horrible. I had it a couple of times in my career. It's horrible. When you've been a starter and then suddenly you're not, and you're actually not even on the bench, and you train a week, and it doesn't matter.

37:35If you're the best player in training all week, you know it doesn't matter because the manager's made their mind up. You're not involved. It's soul-destroying. Sure. and you take it out on your loved ones because you're like you're miserable you get home and you're just frustrated and that's not that's no way to live is it let's be honest even though you might be picking up a great salary so yeah these guys hopefully they can all come to an agreement with Berta with the club to accept sort of terms of not of release but you know what I mean sure accept some sort of way out so they can get their careers going again it would it would It would help everybody.

38:14It would help them and it would help Arsenal. And, you know, we can all live happily ever after. Yeah. I mean, we're in a position, I think, where if nobody leaves, there are going to be players who aren't named in the squad. And we had that situation, if you remember, a couple of years ago with a couple of very high-profile players. And I don't mean to say that any of these guys are quite as high-profile as someone like Mesut Ozil, but that is not a healthy situation for player, for club, for teammates. you know it sort of felt like right we've got to move beyond that um so it is really important for for andrea berta to to sort of solve this particular puzzle yeah we've got we've got to get better at selling we've got to get better fees obviously it's a but but i think sometimes we we we've been guilty as a club of just letting things drift a little bit and being maybe a bit too nice the one sale that really stands out to me as one that I fully endorsed at the time not because I didn't like the player but it was because we struck while the iron was hot and that was Joe Willock Joe Willock he did alright for us he had some good moments but he went on loan to Newcastle didn't he and scored loads of goals and the temptation would be you know let's use him more But really, I didn't want to use him.

39:37He had other things in mind. So it was like, even though he's done brilliantly there, I've made my mind up. He's not the future. And we sold what, at the time, I thought was a good price for Joe Willock. We've been guilty, I think, with others of maybe just letting things drift. And with all of these guys, the longer it goes on, the value depreciates, doesn't it? So, you know, that's been our failing, I think. but hopefully moving forward. Like Chelsea don't mess around. Like a player can be in their first team, big part of the furniture, they just have a little bit of a bad run, fall out of favour and then they're sold.

40:16Yeah, or they're left out. And then they get sold for good money because people know that they've recently been in Chelsea's first team. But I mean, hasn't or shouldn't the perception of Arsenal have changed in that regard that the sort of rising tide lifts all boats, et cetera, et cetera, that, you know, maybe we're not trying to sell players who were necessarily first team players, But, you know, Zinchenko was and, you know, he fell off, but Zinchenko had a big positive impact at Arsenal. I can see why there might be difficulties with some of the others. But, you know, generally speaking, we haven't really been able to capture that value in players.

40:50I mean, what Chelsea do is sort of interesting as well because they isolate players they don't want. And they very publicly isolate those players. is that a tactic that you think is counterproductive in a way? Like if you're a player and you don't know like from one day to the next if you might be sent to Coventry, metaphorical Coventry, not necessarily Frank Lampard's Coventry. I've been there, don't worry about that. I've been to Coventry.

41:25Yeah, no, that's what I said. Sometimes we've been a bit too nice. and yeah and and i love the fact that we're nice we we are we're a great club we try and do things properly we have always had a bit of class and you know i've had i have experienced that at kind of uh stevenage where they tried to force me out a manager was you know i was a regular first teamer but the manager came in he wanted full-time professional so it was a bit different he made training in the daytime and i had a job at this point so he kind of ostracized people like me that couldn't go and train in the mornings and and and basically wanted me to cancel my contract and you know they made me train on my own wasn't allowed to see the players on the match day a personal trainer looking over my shoulder with the most brutal uh program ever to make sure i was doing it you know they did everything that they could to make me go you know what i'm done yeah i'm out and that's what chelsea do that's what a lot of clubs do and i don't think we also do that and I kind of like the fact that we don't.

42:24I just think there are other ways. Just probably Berta being in the job now, a big part of his role would be to sort of try and negotiate moves away for players. So, you know, he can't go on holiday just yet. No, a few days. A busy couple of days. But look, for the next time, for January or next summer, I'd like to think he would have planted some seeds with teams. Just to say, look, this is one that maybe is not a big part of the plans. What can we do? We'll wait and see. Obviously, the window closes on Monday. I have to talk to you about Max Damon. It's this weird thing, Adrian, where I guess as a club, Arsenal would like to keep the lid on hype and expectation, but the reality of the situation is completely at odds with that.

43:21Like, how can you keep a lid on it when a 15-year-old is coming on in a Premier League game and doing what he did and doing what he did in pre-season? What struck me is that, like, we've had players break through at a young age before. And I'm thinking, you know, someone like Bakayo Saka, for example, when he broke through, and I mean this as no disrespect to Bakayo Saka whatsoever, the club wasn't necessarily in the best shape certainly wasn't in the shape it's in now and we certainly didn't have the squad available to us then that we have now does that add another layer to to this does it put him in a like I always think of Cesc Fabregas as a 16 year old coming into a team with Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Perez, Saul Campbell, like these incredible players who had achieved so much in the game.

44:17And a 16-year-old Cesc Fabregas comes in and looks the part. Is there a sort of parallel, let's say, between Max Down and being able to make a breakthrough when the Arsenal squad is in the shape that it's in right now? Yeah, yeah. Cesc is the only one comparable, yeah, because he came into a really strong team and looked instantly as good as everybody else, didn't he? So, yeah, I remember he, I was blown away the first time I saw him or the first few times I saw him. I was like, whoa, how can he be 16? And obviously, yeah, with Vakayo and Smith-Rowe and people like that, they come in at a time when we were really struggling.

44:54So that's hard because the team is poor and therefore you're not winning games. It's, you know, the players around you aren't as good. So it's not, you know, not that easy for youngsters to come in then. but that's normally how you get your chance. With Dalmas, for him, we've just been talking about how amazing our squad is, the best depth maybe ever, and he is legitimately challenging all of them for game time. So, yeah, he is on another level an absolute phenomenon, somebody that is destined, I think, for greatness, really. he just it's hard to think of anybody else that I've ever seen that's as good at that age he's not even started year 11 at school he's about to start it I mean he's not going to spend much time there is he but he's just I can't get my head around it and we've all seen him with our eyes he's as good as everyone else what is the big challenge for him and what is the big challenge for Arsenal Well, you know, as a 15-year-old and look, you were playing academy football and looking to make your breakthrough.

46:10I was playing park football and drinking cans of Bulmers in the park with my friends at the weekend. You know, everybody's got their own memories of what they were doing at 15. I think the idea for, you know, to see a young guy like that be where he is at that point is remarkable. It is extraordinary in every sense of the word. But for him as a young footballer, what is the big challenge? And for the club, what is the challenge in terms of managing his development, his expectation, his mentality, his character alongside his undoubted talent? Yeah, it is a hard one. It's complicated. He's got a lot going on.

46:52He has to complete his education. So there's a lot going on outside, which is probably good, actually, because he doesn't get swept away. I think it's really important that his family avoid the temptation to get too many sort of endorsements. Things like that, you know, stuff outside of football. You really need to just concentrate on football and education and try and just block out everything else. I think these days they have a lot of safeguarding people in place, don't they, to look after youngsters.

47:26Arteta really has got to respect his talent. because if someone is good enough, then you need to use them. He wants to get results. If Max Downing is the right sub to bring on to help us score a goal, then Arteta has to use him. I think the big challenge comes, and I sort of, I guess, found this out, is when you get your first setback. It's your first big, big miss or mess up, you know, red card. big miss, open goal, stinker, you know, whatever it is. Sure. You know, you give away a pin. I don't know what it might be. It's how you react to that. And I think that's when he really needs the arm around the shoulder and sort of just to take him out at the firing line and just not put too much pressure on him.

48:21Yeah. It is a hard one. I don't know. This is such an unusual situation, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. yeah we just i mean the truth is if he carries on like this he's he's your male territory isn't he he is you're sort of the next world you know among the next batch of world stars you know that's that's kind of how how good he yeah has potential to be and we don't want to ruin that do we so but i don't think because it hasn't happened before how do you know what what's right and what's wrong really and each individual is so unique so i think he's been prepared for this moment for quite a while um i think the club will have worked with him and his family i'm sure um to yeah to to maybe give them an idea of what's about to explode yeah and that it's not going to be linear is it it's gonna it's gonna go up and plateau a little bit and and that's normal I think for young players even if he's not a normal young player in inverted commas An injury you know heaven forbid he could have a bad injury you know and that sets him back but it doesn't mean that his career can't still get to the heights we expect so look we've just got to we've got to just say I think it's it's not a cliche but you literally have to take each day as it comes with down man yeah because this isn't normal no who knows what the right thing to do is you've just got to go with what you feel and what you what arteta sees i guess yeah day to day um but i mean i'm blown away with him i i'd heard the name quite a way back i'd seen a few clips but to see him and the speed of his dribbling and you know the confidence of him yeah it's it's scary really um yeah love to see it it's fantastic it's amazing story and then And, you know, what it does, it allows us to talk about a grizzled veteran in the shape of 18-year-old Ethan Weneri, who I did want to ask you about because he came on against Leeds and I thought his performance was really interesting.

50:33Because last season when Martin Odegaard got injured, Mikel Arteta didn't view Ethan Weneri as ready for that position. I think I'm right in saying he came on at 0-0 or was it 1-0? Maybe it was 1-0. I can't quite remember. Yeah, it was close to, it might have been nil now. Yeah, it was quite early, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Anyway, regardless, he is being entrusted with that role. I'm just looking it up now. Yeah, I think it was after the goal. Yeah, just after the timber goal. So it was 1-0 when he came on. But still, you know, Premier League game where we're not leading convincingly and he's been brought on to play a very specific role.

51:12And we understand how tactically important and astute Martin Odegaard is in this team. and the way that he sort of leads the manager's tactical instructions, et cetera, et cetera. What did you make of Wenaire's performance on Saturday against Leeds and his readiness for that role now as a sort of deputy in some ways for Odegaard or an alternative to Odegaard in some ways is very interesting, isn't it? I liked it. I didn't give the ball away for a start. Yeah. Like literally didn't give the ball away as in 100 % pass accuracy, City, which is pretty good when you're on for about an hour. Yeah. So his decision-making was pretty good.

51:54Okay, he might have run into trouble a couple of times, but you want a player like Wan-Ari to have the confidence to still dribble with it. You don't want to take that away from him, do you? So, yeah, he's not going to get everything right. No, he's definitely, I think he's ready. But, you know, that's, Eze's arrival is sort of a setback for him, but it makes it harder, doesn't it? because I think if a guy's injured, if I was Mikel Arteta, I'd probably turn to Eze in that role. So yeah, it's going to be harder for him, but he can play as the 10, he can play a right side, box to box, he can play right wing.

52:33I reckon he could probably play left wing if he needed him to. And Eze can do the same, can't he? He could play that left eight where Rice plays, play the 10, play left wing. So, yeah, they'll all get their chances. I think Wannery's going to have a really good career. I think he's a fantastic young footballer. He had a really good preseason, really graceful. And physically, when you see him at the game now, he just looks a bit more solid. Yeah, more mature. He definitely looks solid. He's growing into his man's body now. Yeah. And that will help elevate him as well. Yeah, when he signed the new contract, he said, I'm ready to play anywhere across the front five, which I thought was interesting.

53:20Is that something that they will have discussed? You know, when they were negotiating a new contract, there was this story, well, there were no guarantees of game time, because I'm not sure you can really apply that. But you can certainly discuss with a player the role that you envisage for him within the team and within the squad and where he might play, right? Would that have been part of that and that versatility that we talked about earlier, his ability to play in multiple positions? Arteta even talked about him being a nine at one point last season. So, you know, is that something that we might see as the squad rotate?

53:56Yeah, I want to see him as much as possible. And that's why if we sold a biggie like a Martinelli, and I still really have a lot of time for him, I would see some upside. And you can see some upside there maybe for him as well. You know, it just sort of gives him another opportunity, one area, to get more game time. This guy can shoot. Yeah. He's brilliant. He's got a fantastic left foot. and he's shown that whether it's the Champions League, the League Cup or the Premier League, he can score goals. So you want players like that in and around the team, don't you? So what he's got to do is prove to the manager initially, I can come off the bench and impact games.

54:40And then that happens so often and then you earn new starts, don't you? But again, it's so hard for him because he's got the captain who plays his position. His second best position is the best player, but Ko Saka. You know, so it's pretty hard. And they've bought Madweke and Max Dillon is breaking through. Yeah, exactly. So sometimes you've just got to take your medicine and back yourself, really. And look at 18. He's still got ages, hasn't he? Yeah. He's got three years, really, to fully establish himself as a starter. And he's good enough to do it. But look, as I know, as countless players, former players know, So you've got to be seriously good to stay at Arsenal for the long term.

55:24You just have to. So there's no guarantees of any of the players. You've just got to keep it going. You've got to keep improving. But yeah, he'll be fine. I was really chuffed that he signed that contract because he's a player with crazy potential. Yeah, probably not in that downman stratosphere at the moment. We don't view him like that at the moment. It's not to say that he couldn't get there because he's still only 18. you're not really supposed to be to have had this much experience at our team. So yeah, he's got a chance. Almost into double figures for goals last season, playing a role off the bench a lot of the time and obviously deputising for Bakayo Saka when he was injured.

56:05Very finally, aside from the stuff that you do on arsel.com and the Premier League and other places, you've recently started a YouTube channel. So I want to give people a flavour of what they can find over there if they want to go over and do the old like and subscribe thing yeah yeah thanks Andrew yeah um yeah just people have been saying to me for a long time you need to do you need to have a youtube channel and I never felt like I had the time but this summer yeah I just thought okay let's let's go for it but I'm learning as I go along but I've been blown away by the reaction I mean yeah like I'm only about eight videos in ten videos in and some of them have been getting over 40 ,000 views.

56:46One was over 60 ,000. So, you know, so much support there, which is brilliant. What can I expect? My aim really is to bring the breakdown back. Obviously, a lot of people might remember me doing that for Arsenal for many, many years. I think it was 11 years. I'm basically going to do that after matches. Not exactly the same, but, you know, proper analysis of the games. Ahead of matches, I'll tell people about the opposition, what we can expect, you know, what we need to do as a team. So like previews and reviews and then in between, there's always something to talk about, isn't there? I might do some Q &As and things like that.

57:28You know, just when I get a bit more comfortable at the moment, I'm doing it all on my own. I'm no producer. I'm no graphic designer. It's all a little bit basic. but people seem to like the content, which I'm chuffed to bits with. So yeah, fantastic. Well, we'll put a link to that in the show notes so people can go and find it and subscribe. Very final quick question. You can answer this quite quickly. It was from the Discord, from Kevdo. He said, speaking about the breakdown, what's your process for when you go about analyzing a game or break it down? Do you watch the full game back? Do you take notes during?

58:03Or I guess it's a combination of both of those things, right? Yeah, I try to, yeah. so i do co-coms um for all the games with dan roebuck and yeah during that during the game i will would jot things down that stand out and then yeah when i used to do the breakdown for us so i would watch the game back but watch it really slowly um to sort of really nail down on patterns and stuff like that i can probably do it slightly quicker these days um but and i don't that was mainly because you needed the clips um now it's more about freeze frames because i can't course yeah yeah can't use the video so um yeah it's yeah you have to be thorough because if you if you want the analysis to be enlightening if you want people to understand stuff that maybe they missed first time around and that's really what i'm trying to do because we all watch a game and we think we've seen something but then it's good to think oh yeah i missed that i didn't realize that so that's hopefully what i can provide people um over time and i'm not a coach yeah i'm not someone that speaks like a sort of like a coach in sort of technical terms hopefully just put it in layman's terms so everyone can understand simply why something worked why something didn't work and what we can do to improve so yeah um yeah i love doing it i love doing it so um i'm yeah now that i've now that i've taken the plunge i'm quite excited to see what i can do with the the new version of the breakdown on youtube all right well we're all looking forward to it it was such a good feature on arsel.com for so many years.

59:34Looking forward to seeing you back. Adrian, thank you so much indeed. Really appreciate your time. Oh, no, thanks for the invite. Cheers.

59:43Do you keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're Acast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at Acast.com slash advertise.

1:00:21Thank you very much indeed to Adrian. Really interesting stuff in there. and you can find him on Blue Sky. He is at adrianjclark.bsky.social and, of course, on the aforementioned YouTube channel, which you will find a link to in the show notes. So if you want to go over and watch Adrian's stuff and subscribe to his channel, the link is in the show notes. So that is just about that for today. We will, of course, be looking ahead to the Liverpool game in a bit more detail in our Patreon preview podcast, which we'll have for you tomorrow afternoon. Once Mikel Arteta meets the press, we get a better idea of some of the team news.

1:01:01It looks like Bakayosaka is going to be out, but will Martin Odegaard be fit and available? He was named in the Norway squad for the upcoming Interlouge, so that might be a clue that he is going to be available for this game. But the manager will have something to say about all the injuries and how we're going to approach this game at Liverpool. You can join myself and Lewis Ambrose. We'll look ahead to that game and all the weekend's Premier League fixtures as well over on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. $6 a month is all it costs, plus VAT where applicable, and you get instant access to everything that we do on Patreon for that$6.

1:01:36So give it a thought. If it's for you, great. If not, myself and James will be here on Sunday evening, an early Arsecast Extra. This week we'll be recording not long after the game at Anfield, so please do join us for that. In the meantime, fingers crossed we all have a great weekend, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:02:27I'm just kidding.

1:03:00Hello Benjamin, it is me, a Manchester United coach of indeterminate origin. That part is not important. What's important is we need you to take a penalty. Can you please take a penalty in this penalty shootout? No. How about now? Can you please take a penalty? Uh-uh. Can you take a penalty now? I cannot. What about now? Is now a good time for you to take a penalty? No. We paid 80 million euros for you. It would be very nice if you could take a penalty now, please. Now is not the time for Benjamin. Okay, now we have Harry McGuire about to take a penalty. So if you could take a penalty instead, I feel a bit more confident about our chances of winning the shootout.

1:03:42I believe in Harry. A little while later. Okay, everybody has taken a penalty now, including Sir Alex Ferguson. We got Ryan Giggs. Had to pull him away from his brother's wife. You know how difficult that is. Please, can you take a penalty? No. Can we get our money back on this guy or something?

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