Episode 844 - Interlull 1 over

0:00James McNicholas: Who knew Walmart business could help a thriving office motivate their employees? Pamela knew. She uses Walmart business to get the assortment of items her team needs at the prices she loves.

0:08Philippe Auclair: As the office manager, it's my job to make sure my team stays on top of their game. I can get the basics like cleaning supplies and paper towels, but what they really care about, snacks.

0:17James McNicholas: And she can get everything they need when they need it. Greg loves wheat crackers, Brenda craves sour candy, and Max, oh boy.

0:23Philippe Auclair: He needs protein bars and milk and applesauce and jerky. Built for your business. Who knew?

0:55James McNicholas: Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Wherever you are in the world, I hope you and yours are safe and well, and that you've navigated your way through the first interlal of the season without any hassle or drama. And it's been quite a busy international break when it comes to the Arsenal players. Some of them have gone away and really delivered for their countries, and you hope that that is something that they can bring back to Arsenal now that the real football is back underway or is about to get back underway.

1:35James McNicholas: That, that, that, that is something. It's, do you ever just say something and it sounds really weird? That just happened there when I said that, that, I mean, it's fine. It works, but it's sort of like when you say a word over and over and over again, and it loses meaning. It just lost meaning there for me. Temporarily, I'm fine now again, just my brain being a bit weird so I'll have to have a word with it later on sit it down give it a good talking to and tell it that that's not something that it should be doing when I'm recording it's off-putting anyway we have plenty to chat about in this particular episode as I said we're going to talk about some of the Arsenal players that have been away and talk about Arsenal as we recommence the Premier League on Saturday against Nottingham Forest we're also going to talk a little bit about some some more general football stories because it's been an interlull there isn't a great deal going on from an Arsenal perspective.

2:28James McNicholas: So we do have some questions from our Discord members, and we've got a few of those questions about more general football topics, and who better to talk about those things with, Arsenal and other stuff. It's my pleasure to welcome back to the Arscast, Philippe O 'Clair. Hello, Philippe. Good morning, afternoon, evening to you, wherever you listen to

2:46Philippe Auclair: us from.

2:47James McNicholas: Yes, yes. It could be any time of the day or night when people are listening to this,

2:51Philippe Auclair: but it is yes it's always uh it's always 12 somewhere as uh i was told by a belgian friend who i was i could see uh hitting the beer quite early in the morning that was his answer he was

3:06James McNicholas: right of course well yes i suppose somewhere in the world it's always a beer o 'clock or cocktail hour who knows not for us yet unfortunately uh it's afternoon time afternoon time so look I did want to start by asking you about the international break and some of the players that were involved from an Arsenal perspective. I think after what happened last season, our senses are very heightened, aren't they, when it comes to injury. So going into this international break, first and foremost, you're looking for people just not to pick up any kind of injury. But it looks like it's been quite a useful international break for a couple of people.

3:46James McNicholas: We're going to talk a bit about Martin Odegaard a bit later on, and he had a nice time for Norway. But, you know, someone like Nani Maduweke, for example, as well, has come through this break with the kind of confidence boost that you would like him to have going into a run of games where he's going to be in the team deputizing for Bakayo Saka.

4:08Philippe Auclair: Yeah, deputizing, and you could even say competing. I mean, I know that sounds ridiculous to say such a thing, but he was absolutely terrific in that win over Serbia. Absolutely terrific. Not just what was a superb goal, which I think showed every single of his qualities, the intelligence of the run, even if it took a moment of genius for Morgan Rogers to find him, the directness of the play, the technique, the physical strength as well, and the coolness in front of goal. I mean, it demonstrated everything that he can do. I have to say, Andrew, I don't know if you're like me, but when I heard he'd been signed, I thought, yeah, good player.

5:00Philippe Auclair: But I wasn't entirely sure of what he could do beyond being, as you say, a very able deputy for Buke Osaka. And I have to say that what is shown with the national team, but what is also shown, I think, with Arsenal on both wings, has made me revise my judgment a little bit. And I've been actually very, very impressed by many, many things about him.

5:31Philippe Auclair: One of his things is that he's a player I like. is that a silly thing to say is that i like the way he behaves himself on the pitch i like his he's obviously got constant focus uh he's always looking for positive solutions um is again very direct he offers something different from from buka yosaka um you know He's not one of those cut inside, shoot with the left foot, Arjen Robben-like or Bukay Osaka-like. He's a different kind of player. He has more physical presence. And his attitude seems absolutely spot on in every way. And he seems to have also fitted in immediately, be it with the national team or with Arsenal, which indicates a player that has got, Well, you know, if you know how to adapt yourself that quickly to a new situation, it means that you've got a very solid football brain.

6:34James McNicholas: Yeah.

6:34Philippe Auclair: I mean, I also got the right kind of confidence and attitude.

6:37James McNicholas: I mean, I guess it helps from his perspective that there are other England internationals in the Arsenal squad who he already knows, you know, from his time there. And we saw the other night there were four Arsenal players on the pitch for England. Maduweke Rice and Myles Lewis Skelly all turning out the other day for England all in one go so that will make his transition a bit easier I mean the role as you said deputising for or providing competition for Bakayo Saka I think is quite an interesting discussion because on the left hand side and I'm going to ask you about Eberache Ezer now in a minute but you know when we signed Madiweke and when we weren't sure exactly of what else was going to happen in the window the idea of Eze on the left was like interesting because we don't normally play a left-footed winger on the left-hand side so that ability to stretch the pitch was was something that you know I spoke about and people were talking about a little bit but when you've got Eze when you've got Trossard when you've got Martinelli for the left-hand side it does seem like primarily that his minutes are going to come on the right-hand side.

7:52James McNicholas: This idea of competition or backup or whatever way you want to put it is a fascinating one when it comes to Saka because, you know, he's injured with a hamstring again. He had a big hamstring injury last season. It felt, you know, over the last number of seasons, that maybe he was sort of playing on the edge of the red line, you know, when it comes to fitness and you'd see him limp off and then he plays the next game and the next game and the next game. It's going to be very interesting to see how Mikel Arteta balances those two players over the course of this season, isn't it? Because it does feel like this is one of the aspects of his management that we still have to be convinced of, if that's a way of putting it.

8:37Philippe Auclair: Yes, and I think they probably have reviewed the contribution of the players on an individual basis. And you will remember there was one point when Saka seemed to be playing basically every game there was to be played, which was asking an awful lot from a young man like him. And unlike you, I think that it's very much a matter of finding out the right kind of burden that you could put on Saka's shoulders or perhaps more aptly on his hamstrings. And normally, Arteta seems to be somebody who is not that keen on turnover for the sake of turnover or hasn't been until now. And the turnover choices he's made in the past have generally been for players who were not absolute certain starters or didn't quite have the same influence on the team as a whole.

9:41Philippe Auclair: And when it comes to his big players, it's been very simple for him. If they're available, they will play. And is that a sign that this might change? That you might see happening at Arsenal something that Pep Guardiola, when Manchester City was winning things, ha ha ha, or Jürgen Klopp or Arna Slott have been doing on a very regular basis. and which is, you know, they have never hesitated to rotate, especially in attacking positions. So if that were the case, and to be honest, seeing that the wealth of players we've got who can play on either wing, it seems that it's quite natural that this will happen.

10:25Philippe Auclair: And also what is fascinating is that the picking order is not quite established yet. Because if you look at Madweke, to come back to him, When he was at Chelsea, he played mostly on the right, but he also played on the left on quite a few occasions, but not at all with the same level of performance in terms of the numbers. And I looked a bit into that. When he was on the right wing, which was most of the time, I mean, four times more often than on the left. Okay, that's a lot. But he scored 11 goals and provided five assists. When he played on the left wing, he provided zero assists and did score a single goal.

11:09Philippe Auclair: So it's pretty obvious which side is his favorite side. But you can imagine Arteta shifting the cards as well. The one I'm, of course, a little bit concerned about, both from a collective point of view, but also for him, is Gabriel Martinelli, who seems to have enjoyed the confidence and trust of Arteta, including in the beginning of the season. but given his performances and given the competition there is now, you think, okay, he's gone down in the pecking order. But other than that, you know, okay, you can see Leandro Trossard more as a kind of impact sub who can play more or less everywhere alongside, you know, the front line.

11:46Philippe Auclair: That's fine. But then when it comes to the starters, I wouldn't say we have a problem. We don't have a problem or we have a lovely problem. Because if Bukayo Saka, does that mean if Bukayo Saka is fit, you play him on the right and you play is a on the left or would you try to actually play with classic wingers who actually play on the side of their the stronger foot which is something which is very unfashionable these days yeah as crazy as it sounds so i i think it's very much a a i'm not absolutely sure that michael arteta has the answers to all of these questions yet because some of the transfers i wouldn't say were forced on him by what happened to the rest of the squad and the injuries we've had and so forth but it feels like okay we have identified we think they can do this kind of job but it's only you know what 3d games in the season no european games yet so we're going to see this is not something on which i have a definite answer but i'm not absolutely sure that michael arteta himself has got a definite answer no it's something that might develop yeah and which actually is not a bad thing in itself because there has to be an element an element of competition within the squad.

12:55James McNicholas: Yeah. So, I mean, on that left-hand side then, is it too simplistic to say that Mikel Arteta needs to find a way to get Eze, Declan Rice, and Martin Odegaard into the same team behind the striker, whether it's Victor Jokerez or El Goliador, Mikel Moreno, or Kai Havertz when he's fit, you know? Is that too simplistic a way to look at it, like simply get your best players on the pitch at all times. And I want to sort of frame this in a slightly different way because the idea of Arsenal being a bit predictable, I think, is down to the fact that we had such a small group of players to choose from last season.

13:39James McNicholas: The injuries and suspensions, etc., made us predictable because Arteta did not have the options. And I always felt like, and this is not a slight on Myles Lewis Skelly at all, but more the system that Mikel Arteta plays, that what we ask of our left back is and has become a bit predictable over the last couple of seasons, from when Sinchenko went in there. We know what role Mikel Arteta wants that player to carry out within the team. So let's say you've got Eze on the left-hand side. You've got Declan Rice and Martin Odegaard, either side or the other side of him, rather. You've got Zubomendy holding.

14:16James McNicholas: You have that left back who can invert, as people say, into midfield. But who's it going to be? Is it going to be Ricardo Calafiori? Is it going to be Myles Lewis Skelly? Is it going to be Piero Incappier? We don't quite know, which in itself lends a bit of variety or unpredictability to everything. But it feels like if you're playing Eze on the left-hand side and he's coming into central areas where he is most effective, you've got a big space on that left-hand side that somebody's got to fill. You don't want it to be Declan Rice, do you? Because he's more effective centrally too. So is there scope for change in the way that we play with our fullbacks, whether it is in Capier or Calafiori or Lewis Skelly, that we might start to see Arsenal left backs be a bit more traditional in the way that they operate, getting up and down the line a bit.

15:10James McNicholas: You know, maybe it would have been very nice for Kieran Tierney to play with someone like Ezzel on the left-hand side, you know, where he could be where he does things best. But is that something that has occurred to you and sort of going back to the as a question, that Rice as a Odegaard thing? It feels to me like that is a small puzzle that he has to put together.

15:31Philippe Auclair: Yes. If you start from the point of view that what happens on the pitch is also built around the relationships and to have, for example, the relationship that you had on the right hand side between Bukayosaka and Ben White, for example. That's the clearest. if you take an example in you know arsenal's recent history that's the clearest one and if you want to have an overlapping fullback in the old sense you would say i would probably say that kind of fury for me is the most obvious candidate for that kind of role that's the way i i feel at the moment one of the reasons being that when it comes to hincapier First of all, I don't want to be one of those pretend nerds who say that they know everything there is to know about the player because I have watched some by Oliver Kusin, but I haven't watched enough of it.

16:23Philippe Auclair: And I have watched a little bit of Ecuador, but mostly highlights from the qualifiers. And by the way, well done to them. Absolutely phenomenal what they've been doing. And he's been an essential part of that. And to the point that I was actually wondering, because in Capier, the other thing that he provides is that he is also a centre-back. and he will provide the cover that we need for our main pairing. And maybe it's a little bit unfair as well in my Louis Kelly because we don't really know what he's capable of doing in that more traditional role because the instructions have been very clear so far.

16:56Philippe Auclair: When he was receiving the ball, because he's a midfielder by training, that's how he started, and he's got this technical ability, he can go past players in fairly tight spaces going into the middle of the pitch. that's what's been asked of him by Arteta. So in a way, the answer to your question is what the setup is going to be, because we don't know yet. We've had some very, very paradoxical games so far. If you look at Manchester United and Leeds and Liverpool, three totally different kinds of games, not all of them extremely satisfying. We're not going to go back on that. but we don't have quite a sense.

17:42Philippe Auclair: We're very much tactically, I think, a team in transition because you could also say the impact of the arrival of Zubimendi and how it impacts on Declan Rice in particular is another question. You can carry on. So this is very much a work in progress. Like you, I would like us to be able to offer on the left-hand side what we have been offering on the right-hand side. again, historically, when Ben White was fit and playing at Full Fitness with Bukay Osaka, where so much was happening there. And with an understanding that will take some time to develop anyway on the other flank, but which we have missed on the left hand side, particularly since Gabriel Martinelli is not that kind of winger, or he's not that kind of winger any longer.

18:30Philippe Auclair: and so it's been we've we've stalled i was going to say on the left flank we haven't used it as much as we probably should have and uh including this season by the way where i think we genuinely and i know people are very angry at me saying that but we missed the trick against liverpool

18:47James McNicholas: for that for me we really missed the trick i mean you were advocating for the the uh the use of of Eze from the start, right? Yes, absolutely. I mean, and is that where you see his role within this team right now? As we're looking at it, you know, we know things develop over the course of the season.

19:06Philippe Auclair: But Eze can also play as a number 10. He offers, you could think of a team in which you would have Madweke, Eze and Saka playing all of them together. I mean, it's possible. And I think that's what the new and exciting thing is, that we do not quite know what is going to happen, which creates a problem for the manager, but it creates a problem for the teams that we're going to face. As you say, unpredictability is back, especially since the player who've come in, I'm thinking in particular of Eze and Madweke here, are players who are very proactive, do take risks in the way they run with the ball, in the way they try to pass the ball in their runs and so forth.

19:51Philippe Auclair: They're very, very positive, proactive players with bags of technical ability and actually fairly decent finishes, especially Eze as well. So that is new. And it's, again, we go back to this thing of a work in progress, but we don't actually even know what the end work is going to be. So I still don't know today, and of course, we're very early in the season, what this Arsenal team is going to play in 25-26, despite 270 minutes on the pitch already in the Premier League. I still don't know. But there is now, there are the ingredients to actually offer a far more varied type of attacking and probably with more incisive players, naturally incisive players,

20:49and with a rebalancing of the axis of play,

20:53Philippe Auclair: which has tended to be very right heavy. Sure. And which now, you know, can be extended to both flanks. And that will create problems for opposite defenses because obviously suddenly you don't have just, you know, 30 yards to defend on your left-hand side. You've got to worry about the other side as well.

21:10James McNicholas: Yeah. I mean, on that, we had a couple of questions from our Discord members about Martin Odegaard, who had a very good night. Well, Norway had an amazing night, didn't they, the other night against Moldova. 11-1 winners. Martin Odegaard played the full 90, which I'm sure Mikel Arteta will have been very impressed by, given the game was one at halftime and he went into the break with an injury. Nevertheless, maybe it tells us that there's not much to worry about when it comes to that little shoulder problem that he had. I think he got a couple of assists and also got himself on the score sheet.

21:42James McNicholas: So on that, Roe says, Odegaard is one of my favorite players, but I'd like your thoughts on his level at the moment. When we loaned him in from Real Madrid, he stood out with his quality and brilliance. Now that the squad has slowly been improved and the ceiling has been raised, has Odegaard's level stagnated? Or is there just too much expected of him, which could hamper his undeniable talent? And I think there were some mitigating circumstances to his form last season. and the white Jay-Z asks about all these through balls and assists. He's provided more key passes through balls and assists than any other player in UEFA World Cup qualifiers.

22:22James McNicholas: Where has this kind of form been in the last few competitive games for us or is it just a matter of time before Odegaard Diokerez becomes the new Kevin De Bruyne to Haaland? And I think that's...

22:33Philippe Auclair: Do we want this to happen, by the way? I'm not sure. Well, if they can provide that many goals, yes, we do.

22:39James McNicholas: But you know what I mean? Is it a case of, you know, I think you kind of have to look at last season in some kind of weird isolation, right? And I think Odegaard would be the first to say that it wasn't his best season. Now we're looking at players building new relationships. We have players who are bringing different things to the team. you know as much as those players have to get used to us our existing players have to get used to them as well um and i sort of cited the the moment i think in the liverpool game when odegaard played this really lovely reverse pass and jacquez wasn't expecting it you know he was trying to stay on side and wasn't expecting it and maybe now you know after more time together he will expect those kind of things from odegaard but but you know is it you know are you confident a that he can sort of recapture the form that we've come to know from him and B, that maybe taking some of the creative burden off him via those other players that we've just talked about might be very useful.

23:38Philippe Auclair: I do think so. And I think last season, like you, I wouldn't, I wouldn't pay too much attention to it, but it was a very strange one as far as he was concerned, because he'd only started the season where he had when he had this ankle sprain which made him miss you know seven premier league games he also missed a number of champions league games in the group stage and then after after that you play catch up he actually only started playing mid-november when you know the the season was already in full flow he didn't have time to settle in he was always playing catch up catch up catch up catch up and there were some better performances than others but yes he was not quite at his usual level that was also due to the fact the team was also affected a lot by injuries and that the balance was not quite right and we know we've gone through all that so I don't have any concerns about that one of the things is that he's what I what I love the Martin the guy when I love him the most is he's a very busy player isn't he you know when he I love it when he receives the ball in pure wets and is able to to put two two defenders beside him or past him simply by by altering his direction extraordinarily quickly, and then delivering those through passes, which, by the way, when he played against Moldova, even though it was only Moldova, it's not only the assets, he actually created far more chances than that.

25:14Philippe Auclair: It was recital, he created, I think, a total of seven so-called big chances, which should or could or should have led to goals, which is just crazy in an international. And he has this ability. Developing a relationship with the new center forward especially Jocheres, who seems to be a bit of a diesel of a player. That's going to take time. Remember the beginning of, if you were talking about De Bruyne and Holland, remember the beginning of their so-called relationship. There was no real relationship at all. Most of the time, Holland was running into dead ends. He was not exactly where his teammates expected him to be, He didn't do the runs where his teammates expected to be, especially Kevin De Bruyne.

26:03Philippe Auclair: And so it took quite a lot of time, I mean, months and months, actually, before, despite goals coming quite regularly, for those partnerships to develop. And some would say that, actually, they never totally fully developed to the extent that Pep Guardiola would have hoped them to develop to start with. Never. and in this case he's a he's a little leprechaun isn't he uh he's he's unpredictable um he's an incredible he's got incredible drive and energy but for that obviously he needs to be fully fit all of the time and which is comes back to this question i've had about him actually for quite a while when is the last time you saw a fully fit martin de yard play for arsenal well i mean it was a while ago it was a while ago because there's always been those niggles all these things having to catch up coming back from injury not finding your rhythm immediately other problems coming in and so forth it's it hasn't been plain sailing to say the least it's been very choppy and because of that we've only seen what he could do uh against uh you know what he did against Moldova with Norway is, in a way, we should forget about it.

27:21Philippe Auclair: It was an 11-1 game is always a one-off game. The guys, there was nobody left in front. But we have seen flashes. We have seen, we haven't seen him perform at this kind of level for a sustained period for quite a long time. And I do think fitness has been a problem.

27:44James McNicholas: well yeah i hope he can get a run of games now because you know there are um five six seven maybe six games in the next little um run uh before the next international break let me just have a quick look here one two three four five six yeah six games between now and the next international break where you know for one or two of those you would expect him to be rotated a bit um you know certainly the the efl cup game it's a chance for some other players but Yeah, get that fitness under his belt. And hopefully, you know, the fact that he did 90 minutes going into that international break with an injury suggests that the shoulder isn't as bad as we had potentially thought.

28:25James McNicholas: But yeah, that next little trench of games is going to be, it gives us a bigger, how would you say, sample size for Mikel Arteta in terms of what we expect to see from him and how we expect his team to play. because I think there are certain games where you look at Man City, you look at Newcastle away. Man City's still a very difficult game. Newcastle away has been a bit of a bogey team for us. You know, there are other games, though, where you're looking at, you know, Forest, with all due respect to Athletic Bilbao, where we go next week in the Champions League. Not an easy game by any means, but certainly one where you would look for Arsenal to express themselves.

29:05James McNicholas: Olympiacos at home, West Ham at home, even though that tripped us up a couple of years ago. You know, there are those games where you're looking to see what way he's going to send his team out. You know, how have you viewed this ongoing discussion about Arteta's, is it preference? I don't know. But that discussion over caution and whether or not he now needs to sort of just let the handbrake off a bit and let his players play because he's got a great midfield, he's got great defenders, and he's added very good attackers. Is it now, you know, the time for him to really trust in that? Yep, and I think you should already have done it.

29:52Philippe Auclair: But there you go. That's me. I'm very, I suppose, you know, I expect too much. I think the recruitment has been excellent. I think there is, he's not Rafa Benitez, we shouldn't exaggerate because we've seen Arsenal being able to produce quite fluent and quite seductive, appealing attacking performances in the past. But yes, the time has come. I think we all agree on that. If we want to just go this extra step and to be honest, which is why I'm so frustrated about that Liverpool game is that Liverpool are also a team in transition and far greater transition in many ways than Arsenal is. and that they have got some weak spots.

30:37Philippe Auclair: So we've got to make the most of that. And to be honest, if you look around, there isn't going to be an awful lot of extra competition. Manchester City have had a very, very difficult start to the season. Chelsea are Chelsea. And you carry Tottenham are definitely Tottenham. So you carry on like that. You think, well, okay. So it still should be a mano a mano between Liverpool, the champions, and the guys who finished second in the league last year. but you do feel that the arsenal that he has at his disposal is far stronger than the one he had before and that also the players that he's brought in would make you think that he would favour a more proactive more perhaps less risk averse approach to the games you know if you bring in players like Madweke and Ezey you certainly want to hurt your opponents it's a very clear signal It's like, okay, yeah, we've signed some very, very proactive, forceful attacking players.

31:37Philippe Auclair: Now we want to use them to their maximum. So it feels, yes, it is the season where we actually go one stage further in the development, you know, when finally that very, very sturdy caterpillar metamorphosis gets out of the chrysalis and turns into this beautiful butterfly, red and white butterfly. And the weapons, the arguments are there. so it's entirely up to him but i would say again i come back to that the recruitment itself makes me think that yes that's what he wants to do yeah same then yeah and and and he he also obviously has got to fight against his own instincts he will have also to reformat reboot in in some ways players who have become accustomed to a very um i mean very easily identifiable and style which hasn't varied and doesn't vary much by the way according to the uh proponents we have in front of us except we know when they decide to give us tons of space like real madrid did but that won't happen every day no um so it is the moment is right and again i'm quietly confident that this will happen during the season what i hope is that it happens quickly enough.

32:56James McNicholas: Sure. Sure. Me too. I think it is, it's time, you know, I sort of understood a little more of the caution around the Liverpool game than maybe you did or I was more forgiving of it, let's say, than you were perhaps. But I do think it is really time to lean into the strengths that we have and you build a brilliant defensive platform and you build a really good solid midfield and you look at the players and the options that he has there and you have to allow some of those players further forward to express themselves and to show us what they can do in the final third. So let's hope we see that soon.

33:37James McNicholas: Moving away a little bit from Arsenal with sort of some wider football discussion on this episode, I do want to ask you about Chelsea. You will have seen that Chelsea have been hit with 74 charges. historical charges I think you can describe them as related to breaches of agent regulations these are between 2009-2022 when the club was owned by Roman Abramovich Chelsea have released a statement saying that they have unlike perhaps another club demonstrated unprecedented Transparency, they say. I mean, is this, you know, and these breaches, by the way, I think were self-reported by the new Chelsea ownership.

34:23James McNicholas: So they've given the FA all of this information. I mean, the impact that Roman Abramovich has had on football continues to this day. I think he is a Pandora's box for many of the ills that beset the game at this moment in time. What do you make of these charges? What do you expect to come of them? And does Chelsea's unprecedented transparency, is that a way for them to sort of mitigate any punishment that might be handed out? Should clubs operate like this? Do we have to give Chelsea any credit whatsoever for at least not obfuscating everything through legal means and otherwise?

35:05Philippe Auclair: Okay, so we're going to take a very deep breath. and we're going to say yes actually chancy have done the right thing they've done the right thing in many ways they've done the right thing in ethical terms uh in as much they've held up their hand they haven't taken that bogus defense that oh it was not under you know our control at the time so therefore we shouldn't be responsible for you know what happened in the past when Roman Abramovich was in place. But in fact, what happened is that when they were doing their due diligence, it's their own accountants who came across those irregularities and particularly incorrect reporting of agent payments.

35:49Philippe Auclair: And this happened during due diligence. And they made the right decision, which is to immediately go to the FA, not wait for the FA to do something of their own bad, and say, listen, we found this stuff. That's not good. but we don't like it. We're reporting it. We know that we're in for punishment, but we're going to collaborate fully with you. And because of that, the number of charges in many ways is immaterial. Some of those charges will just be multiple examples of the same maneuver or illegal or fraudulent, or whatever you want to call it, or dishonest. so the number of charges doesn't really mean anything the detail by the way we're talking at the moment when it's still breaking news so we do not have all the background information that perhaps will be you know available in in the hours and the days to come so there's a part of it which is speculation but the fact that they've got 74 charges you know it could be 74 it could be 37 it could be six i don't think it's material at all what what matters is that we have a fair idea of what the charges are about and these are irregularities, they don't seem to mean like they're huge breaches comparable to what some of the clubs have been doing.

37:11Philippe Auclair: And we also know that the FA, if we look at what is going to happen now, the charges have been brought and the club has been cooperating, remember that Nottingham Forest were able to, I would say, go off lightly, but some people would say that because they too made the right choice, both in terms of what is right, ethically speaking, and what is right for their own good to collaborate fully. And you provide all the documents and you don't put any obstacles in the way of the investigators, as has happened for some of the clubs. and therefore you can expect a lighter punishment than what you're going to end up with.

37:55Philippe Auclair: Because if Nottingham Forest hadn't cooperated, they could have ended up with a very serious points deduction, which would have changed their fate maybe somewhat two seasons ago. So instead of which, they had a brilliant season and ended up in Europe. So Chelsea deserve some credit for that. it doesn't mean that they deserve credit for the other things they're doing and i'm really very much looking forward to what's going to happen with uefa not with the fa but the uefa when it comes to associated party transactions and some of the i would say less savory deals they've done with themselves to try and put their accounts into order in order to fulfill financial fair play regulations.

38:51James McNicholas: Do you mean in terms of moving players around between Strasbourg?

38:55Philippe Auclair: Moving players around, selling the women's team to themselves, selling hotels to themselves, car parks to themselves, at prices which honestly have made many people in the industry go, really? So yes, and UEFA should actually have, will be much stricter than the EFA the Premier League will be in this particular occasion. So yes, the big headlines are going to be 74 charges against Chelsea, but I don't expect anything other than a pretty big fine and an acknowledgement by the FA that Chelsea had actually collaborated with the investigation from the start. And in fact, we're the ones who triggered the investigation by reporting the irregularities in their own books.

39:42James McNicholas: Speaking of associated party transactions, there was a story obviously this week about Manchester City and the Premier League coming to an arrangement over the dispute as it was labeled. You know, I feel like I couldn't really care less about that as long as, you know, the other big Manchester City Premier League legal situation goes on. And I'm trying to remember when we were talking last about this. And I genuinely can't remember, Philippe, if it was, let's say, earlier this year and we talked about, well, they're going to have to make a decision before the season starts. Or if it was early last year, because it feels like that's how long it's been going on.

40:34Philippe Auclair: Yeah, yeah. I remember the date. I remember the day because I looked at it. Because I was asking myself exactly the same question. When did we last talk about that? And we actually even said that there were rumors that since the panel of independent judges had come to conclusion, their first conclusions, a verdict could be expected in the spring. And it was February 2025, to be precise. Okay, well, I'm glad you remember. Well, I didn't remember at all. I've just been checking it, to be absolutely honest. But it could as well as being, you know, 2024, because the whole caboodle started in February 2023.

41:23Philippe Auclair: So we're on our way to the third anniversary of the Premier League putting those charges Manchester City's way. And absolutely nothing has filtered. and nothing will filter. That is clear. One thing on which all the parties have agreed is that there would be no briefing whatsoever to anybody. Nobody knows what's going to happen. So again, what we're doing is speculation and reporting what is being talked about in the kind of football ecosystem. The last I heard about it was that we could expect some news in October. Right. That's the last i heard but again last february we heard we would have some news in march yeah and what's happened with the other dispute which was entirely of manchester city's making by the way because you will remember there was a first ruling about apt rules uh in october 2024 and then everybody said they had won the premier league said they'd won the case Manchester City said that they'd want the case and so on.

42:34Philippe Auclair: And the Premier League changed a few things in the APT rules, particularly when it comes to loans which are provided directly by the owners. And then Manchester City decided, you know what, we're going to make them pay some more money to their lawyers because we know that they're basically having problems financing their legal department. And so they started a second procedure, which is the one which has just stopped.

42:59James McNicholas: Yeah.

43:00Philippe Auclair: And you're wondering how much haggling there's been behind the scenes. Because one thing which is totally unacceptable, by the way, in the statement that was published on Monday by both Man City and the Premier League, is that they said they would provide absolutely no detail about the deal and that they wouldn't make any further comment about it, which I think is quite astonishing, considering that Manchester City had basically started legal action against fellow clubs and that Manchester City is a shareholder of the Premier League. And that's absolutely unbelievable. But you can't help thinking that the two cases are obviously linked.

43:37Philippe Auclair: One way they're linked is because Manchester City, as I understand it, and my apologies if I'm not quite right, but I don't think I'm wrong, Manchester City is able to finance the absolutely exorbitant bills, invoices of their lawyers because it's taken that they're paid by their holding company. So not by the football club itself, but they're paid by the holding company, which is the City Football Group. So this means they have access to almost unlimited funds. The Premier League doesn't. The Premier League has to pay out of a provisional budget, which is set up every year and which which puts aside a certain amount of money for legal purposes.

44:23Philippe Auclair: And the estimations we have is that the Premier League have put aside something like 40 or 45 million pounds towards those costs, which sounds like an awful lot of money. And if it sounds like an awful lot of money, it's because it is an awful lot of money. but it seems that the legal spending contributed for most of the extra, I said extra,£81 million which were spent in 23-24 for operating costs by the Premier League. That's a colossal sum.

44:59James McNicholas: Yeah.

45:00Philippe Auclair: And the season before that, it was£44 million. So when you put all those figures together, and you think, okay, it will have carried on in 2024, 2025, you're looking at well over 200 million quid spent on legal costs, most of which, I mean, some of them were related to the Everton case and the Nottingham Forest case and perhaps lesser cases as well. But the bulk of the costs will be attributable to what is going on with Manchester City, which is also another thing which is scandalous, that they are basically literally holding the Premier League, of which they're a shareholder, to ransom. and that the money that they are forcing the Premier League to disgorge because they have no choice is money that should have gone to the clubs themselves.

45:43Philippe Auclair: I mean, when you think about it, it's absolutely crazy. Will the fact that they've come to an agreement for this other litigation, will it have an impact on the 130 charges and the way they deal with that? Perhaps. did the premier league raise the white flag and tell them you know that that's ridiculous we cannot spend carry on spending money on that we'll just close the matter and that would be it

46:11James McNicholas: it it feels like it's sort of aligned with you know that that quote that's attributed to sheikh mansoor you know about uefa where he said he'd rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers and sue uefa for the next 10 years than accept any punishment for the financial breaches which you know, UEFA found, but there was sort of, what's the statute of limitations issues with any punishment on those? So it is like just, it's obstructionist, isn't it?

46:37Philippe Auclair: It is. It's also comparable to what billionaires, oligarchs do when they want to crush a journalist or a publisher or a magazine or anything. It's that even though they're wrong, and they might be found wrong in the end, they can afford it, whereas the people they're attacking cannot. Yeah. And because of that, they hope to bully their way to a settlement that will not reflect the seriousness of the charges and the infractions.

47:14Philippe Auclair: Yeah, I think it encapsulates the current state of the world, to be absolutely honest. Bullying by billionaires, you know, what's new?

47:23James McNicholas: Yeah.

47:24Philippe Auclair: Well, it is new, actually. It is very much one of the defining traits of our age. And you wonder how long the Premier League can hold on. I mean, yes, they've got some money. And I would imagine the other clubs, or most of the other clubs, are absolutely furious at what is going on. Absolutely furious at what is going on. And they would like nothing better than seeing Manchester City punished really, really hard. And to be honest, I think most of us would like Manchester City to be punished really, really hard. If, of course, let's be legal here, if, of course, they're found guilty of those breaches.

48:01Philippe Auclair: If they're not, too bad. But you wonder if this process, if the two processes are not linked. That's one of my concerns. Sure. I think that if the Premier League has decided to come to an agreement with Manchester City on APT rules, could they use that almost like a kind of precedent? for coming to an agreement with with manchester city for example you know which could be a a points deduction which they don't care about because it's fallen unseason only unless it of course it put them in a relegation zone and a vast amount of money to be paid in in fine as fines or fines which they also won't care at all about because they've got more money that you know more money than anything any other club perhaps on the planet yeah so whichever way you look at it It's not exactly a cheerful prospect.

48:56James McNicholas: No, it's the idea that they might come to an arrangement or that this APT thing is linked to that in some way when they haven't been in any way transparent about the agreement they've come to. I mean, because of the profile of this particular case, there's surely no way that they can just say, you know, we've come to a letter. We've come to an agreement over this. We won't be making any more statements. And surely the time, the energy, the money that's gone into this, and as you say, money from the Premier League that could go elsewhere, you know, the other Premier League clubs will want complete transparency and visibility on whatever deal or whatever punishment is made, right?

49:36Philippe Auclair: Yeah, especially if you're Everton or Nottingham Forest, for example. Yeah. You will say, look at what happened to us. It actually endangered the status of our clubs and the presence in the elite. and it was resolved pretty quickly. And now, of course, the amount of documents that the lawyers have got to go through and charge thousands of pounds per hour for is not the same. I think in the case of Everton, we're talking about 50 ,000 documents, something like that. And in the case of Manchester City, the estimates I've read about from people I trust is about 10 times that, 500 ,000. Oh, Jesus.

50:20Philippe Auclair: I know, 500 ,000. Makes me think of the terabytes of data which was seized by the FBI at FIFA in 2015, which we've never seen, by the way. We're still waiting for those terabytes of files to produce anything other than the few things that we've seen happen immediately after the event. But we're still waiting. We don't know what they found. It's like one of those movies. I'm not sure they found it. They're still looking for it. Well, I hope so. Maybe they're not, actually.

50:49James McNicholas: No, I doubt it. But, you know, this is like one of those movies where it's like a small law firm taking on the big, gigantic corporation. And then all these trucks start pulling up outside with box after box after box of documentation. They just swamp people and give them so much that, you know, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. But we'll see what happens there. Another question from our Discord members, Mr. Snrub asks, is multi-club ownership the unfortunate future of top football clubs? There are reports of Liverpool considering it and with Chelsea clearly in an advantage now. Is this something KSE have to do at some point as there's likely no chance regulators, be it FIFA or UEFA, will step in and do the right thing?

51:34James McNicholas: And, you know, do you think this is something we've spoken about it before? And obviously the City Group are an example of a multi-club model where, you know, players move and money moves. And we can see it with Chelsea, with Blue Co. or whatever they're calling themselves. You know, is it a case of keep up with the Joneses or is it, you know, is there still the possibility that for the sake of the game them for the sake of sporting integrity this is something that could be cracked down on or are we just you know like with Chelsea and Man City that you know we're closing the stable door after the

52:14Philippe Auclair: the horse is well and truly bolted well I think the pack of horses has bolted you you were talking about Liverpool Liverpool is is already in MCO land because part of the the holding company FSG one of their investors is Aris, the Aris Fund. And the Aris Fund also was one of the main creditors behind John Texter. And Aris has got loads of fingers and loads of pies already. What we're seeing is a kind of multi-club ownership by stealth. What you have is those funds. It's actually quite good. I find fascinating. I could talk for hours about that. It's one of my favorite subjects because it's a revolution happening in plain sight.

53:00Philippe Auclair: and this behemoth has come on the scene, and everybody is giving in to the bully. Absolutely everybody is giving in to the bully. And the best example of that is what happened with UEFA. UEFA, not that long ago, under Platini, but also under Cheferin, had a fairly strict policy towards MCO, and certainly was saying, the discourse, the message was, MCO is not a good thing. the same owner shouldn't have several clubs and if those clubs are to compete in the same competition well, too bad they won't be able to do that but what has happened is that on one hand Cefarin has opened the door and I remember I was in the room when he said that and I remember thinking at the time it was in Lisbon last year or maybe even in 2023 and I thought when I heard that that we basically, he said that it's not a good thing, but we've got to take into account there's a new model happening and we've got to think of ways to deal with it.

54:03And I thought, okay, basically,

54:05Philippe Auclair: you're going to let them in, aren't you? And this is exactly what UAF has done. Because if you look at the crazy circus, which has surrounded, for example, Manchester United, Ogesedis and Lausanne with Radcliffe, or with Olympiacos and Nottingham Forest with Marinakis, and you realize that those guys would have been able to field several of their own teams in the same competition because they had used this mechanism which is called blind trust where you i in my view ficticely fictitiously yeah transfer the ownership and not the ownership but the management to a third party which does it independently and therefore you know your hands off for one season whilst we are in this competition well let's say Nottingham Forest would be put would be transferred to a blind trust Olympiacos remains the property of Evangelos Marinakis but Nottingham Forest goes on to this trustee who then does as the what they want and but at a hand you know at an arm's length from the main owner which of course is to use a technical term complete bullshit because the owner The owner obviously still has handled that.

55:21Philippe Auclair: But this is exactly what Marinakis did. This is what Radcliffe did with Ogsenis and Lausanne Sport. This is what Marinakis did with Nottingham Forest. This is what Manchester City did when, remember, Girona and Manchester City were in the Champions League together. They all used the same mechanism, the blind trust mechanism. And do you know who actually devised this blind trust mechanism? It's UEFA themselves. It's UEFA themselves. I did a long piece in Yozema about that. We found out that the main architect of this scheme was Sunil Gulati, the former head honcho of American US soccer, who came up with this idea.

56:09Philippe Auclair: And then they proactively went to the clubs, which were in an MCO situation, telling them, you know what? One way of going around our own regulations is to do this. So you think, OK, all right. FIFA has nothing to say about it. I think the only way that something could happen, which is, by the way, the only way anything can happen in football, I think, is if it goes to a different authority and a different authority looks at it and says that can't go on because it actually violates competition law, which is basically the European Union. And we've seen the European Union being far more active. Sorry, I use this word a lot.

56:52Philippe Auclair: In trying to right some of the wrongs of modern football, they're about the only power that we can turn to hoping that something will be done. UEFA won't do anything. FIFA won't do anything. And so the private investment funds and the multi-club owners will carry on them every way. And the phenomenon is just growing and growing and growing all of the time. You will remember that Mikel Arteta himself actually mentioned that and said that we might have to go that way ourselves if we want to carry on competing. We might have to go down the MCO route, which is, you know, fairly depressing. It is depressing.

57:33Philippe Auclair: I'm afraid, you know, it's, yes, the horses have bolted and they're, you know, just running everywhere.

57:41James McNicholas: They've got, yeah, they've taken over the field and they do what the hell they want. It is depressing to think that UEFA have basically enabled this, despite, you know, it very clearly being against any kind of sporting integrity. and I guess as well, you know, the other side of it is not the on-pitch stuff, but as we see and we've spoken about before is the way players can be moved around and the way that it allows money to be moved around as well. Yes, very much so. Which is, yeah, it is an issue and maybe a longer one that we can get into another day. But there is one more thing I wanted to talk to you about and it is UEFA adjacent.

58:22James McNicholas: And again, it is this idea of games being played in different countries on different continents. And UEFA are meeting today to discuss La Liga and a request to move Villarreal versus Barcelona, which I think is due to take place in December. For that game to be...

58:43Philippe Auclair: I was going to say, Andrew, I was just interrupting you, but I think it might be beginning of next year instead. Right. We'll check it. Okay. In the next few months, I think is correct.

58:54James McNicholas: All right. Villarreal versus Barcelona, not in their stadium outside Valencia or in the small town, not in Barcelona. Ceramica. But yes, I've been there. But in Miami, is this another one of those stable doors that once opened is going to absolutely change the landscape of football as we know it?

59:19Philippe Auclair: Yes. perhaps not in the same way or to the same extent though. One thing which is noticeable is that the reaction of supporters groups throughout Europe has been incredibly strong and actually reminded me a bit of what happened when the doomed Super League project was announced and you will remember that he died a death within three days. i don't think it's going to be as dramatic as that but there is a genuine movement uh happening there is actually a petition which has been started uh by uh football supporters europe which i will send you a link to and i'm sure that you will be very happy to put it on our blog so that for sure fans can sign it um there has been a lot of reaction against that uh there has been reaction as well from i mean this is very much internal politics you will have seen how just for once real madrid and la liga are not exactly in agreement about what should happen what a surprise yeah but it's something that's been going on i mean if you look back in the history of of this idea it goes back well over 15 years uh we all remember the uh the famous 39th game which was for for England.

1:00:46Philippe Auclair: We should also remember that there were lawsuits which were instigated by this American company called Relevant, which organizes these kind of fake competitions in the US in pre-season. And they wanted to delocalize a genuine domestic league games and not just European games. I think there was an example of a game from the Ecuadorian first division, which they wanted to stage in California to appeal to the, obviously, the Ecuadorian community there. And every time this has happened, UEFA have stepped in and said, and FIFA, who have the ultimate power in this, to say, no, it's not going to happen.

1:01:26Philippe Auclair: It's not going to happen. It's against our statutes. If you do that, you're basically in breach. You can't do it. And what we have seen, despite what some headlines would make you think is that again, UEFA has opened the door. There was an interview between Alexander Cheferin, the president of UEFA, and I think it was Politico, in which he said the headline was, I don't think it's a good idea. And that's what he said. And the headline became, Cheferin opposes staging of league games abroad. Well, he didn't because he said, unless there are exceptions. I thought, that's fantastic. Yes, of course, Alexander, there will be exceptions.

1:02:15Philippe Auclair: I don't think we're going to stage the whole of the Premier League or La Liga somewhere else. I don't think it's going to happen. But he's opened the door and, you know, there is also this belief that UEFA themselves are looking to delocalize some of the Champions League at some stage. So you can understand that in a way, UEFA are protecting their own interests by pretending to be opposed to something that I wouldn't say they support, but that they're willing to tolerate, let's put it that way, as exceptions, which is exactly what the people involved want. They don't want to stage a whole of La Liga.

1:02:52Philippe Auclair: Villarreal and Barcelona, they don't want to stage the whole of the league. No, no, no. Because, no, what they want to do, it would be great if you had a game, Just the way like the Supercoppa in Italy or the Supercup in Spain have been delocalized to Libya or to Saudi Arabia. And the French Trophée des Champions goes to Doha and all these sort of things. So that's fine for this kind of non-competitive games. But what they want is to open competitive games, to open that possibility for competitive games. And I'm pretty sure that they will get what they want. And which, of course, is a complete, utter, shows total, utter disrespect for the fans of the clubs in question.

1:03:38Philippe Auclair: Of course. I mean, you know, what are Villarreal fans who were looking forward? Because, you know, as well, Villarreal against Barcelona is a bit of a derby game. Yeah, it's close-ish. Or less the same part of Spain. It's close enough. And, you know, you would like to have this at the Ceramica. and you don't want basically bless them tourist fans cheering on their teams 6 ,000 miles away from home. It's totally unaffordable. If you're a season ticket holder, it's also you think, fuck's sake, man. I bought my ticket for this game. What am I supposed to do now? Pay a fortune to go to Miami?

1:04:24James McNicholas: Well, the president of Villarreal apparently has offered to fly season ticket holders to Miami for free, which is really nice of him. But, you know, there's a difference, isn't there, between going to your local team in the town, the small town that you live in, to see a game and then going home the same day and having to go to Miami, stay in a hotel, whatever it is. It's crazy. And I just was looking at the relevant website there. Coincidentally, in 2025, Relevant won a landmark mandate to represent UEFA men's club competitions, global media and sponsorship rights for the 2027 to 2033 cycle. So, yes.

1:05:06Philippe Auclair: Yes.

1:05:06James McNicholas: Anyway.

1:05:07Philippe Auclair: I think we can leave a pregnant pause here. Correct. And let that sink in. Yes. But there is a chance, though, because I have to say the mobilization of fans throughout Europe is real. And I've talked to a few of the guys who are trying to organize a common European response to that. And again, they also have got in touch with the European Commission, the European Union. and this proposal won't meet with much sympathy at European level, I can tell you that. It won't. Okay, well, let's see what happens.

1:05:51James McNicholas: Before we go, because it's been a little bit on the depressing side talking about this aspect of football, so I did want to maybe just ask one more quick one before we go. Corgi Skateboard says, in relation to all the sort of bad stuff about football, He said, what brings you the biggest joy still about the game? He said, when I saw Ian Wright interview Aberacee, it seemed like everything I believe in as a person and in sport, it struck me, you know, in spite of all these trends that take the life and joy out of it. You know, there's still things that that capture us and capture our hearts in a way.

1:06:30James McNicholas: So, you know, you deal with a lot of this stuff and the work that you do with Yosemar is amazing and can't be easy to put together, you know, to be sort of so focused on all this bad stuff. So what is it, you know, within the game that still brings you this, you know, the moments of joy and happiness beyond, you know, Arsenal winning games, obviously?

1:06:51Philippe Auclair: well arsenal winning games and and to see the women win the champions league my goodness that was an out-of-body experience um i think it's the players uh i think that what we have to do is strip what this this horrible theater of nightmares um the the scenery is awful the theater is awful the ticket prices to get in are far too expensive but the players my good self my good you know my goodness what we are given can still be absolutely astonishing um i have to say i i i one of the reasons i really uh love the uh women's euro is that it it it was really about joy it was really about joy and also distress sometimes and suffering but it was genuinely a wonderful human experience and some of the football was also absolutely terrific um when i see grimsby doing manchester united oh my goodness my goodness i mean what what a night that was that was just magnificent in so many ways and you know it's not well i was going to say branches to match united supporters i don't think many of them get stranded in that particular cave that we're speaking with right now but it was magnificent in so many ways so there is still an awful lot of joy and this is also always what i come back to is that despite all the the that we have to deal with and the appalling way that this very ugly late capitalism um the the way it's impacting our game makes us perhaps realize why the game is worth saving from them and football is far too beautiful a thing to be left to those bastards and which could be i think an apt motto for my attitude i still love football people often ask me a question how can you still watch a game of football so when i get watch a game of football i what i watch is football i i don't watch ugly owners appalling investors uh crooked organizations i watch players who quite clearly still share that love for that game uh still clearly care for what they're doing and also offer us a spectacle which at times can be uh can be magnificent and also be horrible but even the horribleness is part of the experience so that's what i love about it that's what we all love about it so let's defend it

1:09:31James McNicholas: Perfect. What a way to go out. Save the game from those bastards is absolutely right. I had better let you go. As ever, I really do appreciate your time. Filippo Clare, thanks very much. Thank you very much, Hentuck.

1:10:12Philippe Auclair: We'll see you next time. It's Walmart, built for your business. Who knew? Hi, I'm Nick, co-host of The Best One Yet. You optimize your workouts, your portfolios, and that rando startup idea that hit you in the middle of the shower.

1:10:24James McNicholas: But if you're not hydrated, you're already playing catch-up. So we keep a stash of Liquid IV in our studio. One stick mixed into 16 ounces of water is clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone with three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting the best business news ever, liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

1:10:54James McNicholas: Thank you very much indeed to Philippe. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at philippeoclaire.bsky.social, at philippeoclaire.bsky.social. And Yossi Maher is a publication we've mentioned before. It does a lot of great investigative journalism. That's not easy to say, by the way, involving football, the business of football, the shadier elements of the game, and lots more besides. If you're interested in that, you will find a link to Yasimar in the show notes. So look, that is just about that for this particular show. But if you want a bit more, if you want something else to listen to tomorrow, you can join us on Patreon for our Premier League preview podcast.

1:11:35James McNicholas: We will look ahead to the game against Nottingham Forest on Saturday afternoon, along with all the other Premier League games as well. But obviously the focus is on Arsenal, on the team Mikel Arteta might pick to do the job. We'll have injury news after his press conference tomorrow. So we'll have that for you tomorrow afternoon, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. And then big news, we are doing the Arsecast Extra on Saturday night. I'm not going out clubbing. I'm not going to any parties, no fancy restaurants. I'm not hanging out with all the cool people I hang out with on a Saturday in the VIP room.

1:12:16James McNicholas: Can you really describe your own kitchen as the VIP room? I guess you can. It's pretty exclusive. Nobody else really in there. Barman's a twat, though. Anyway, listen, we are going to be doing the Arsecast Extra on Saturday night. So we'll have that for you then. If you're similarly at a loose end, you can expect that to drop around 10 o 'clock there or thereabouts. If not, it'll be there for you on Sunday. So please do join myself and James for the Arsecast Extra. Hopefully a very goodly Saturday evening can be had by all of us after a good result against Nottingham Forest. For now, though, take it easy, folks.

1:12:55James McNicholas: Thank you so much as always for being here. Hope you enjoyed the show and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye bye.

1:13:15I'm out.

1:14:02Philippe Auclair: We'll be right back.

1:14:03James McNicholas: They really care about snacks. And she can get everything they need when they need it. Greg loves wheat crackers, Brenda craves sour candy, and Max, oh boy. He needs protein bars and milk and applesauce and jerky.

1:14:14Philippe Auclair: Built for your business. Who knew?