Episode 845 - Bilbao

0:00Could AI help you do more of what you love? Workday is the AI platform for HR and finance that actually knows your business. We help you handle the have-to-dos so you can focus on the can't-wait-to-dos. It's a new Workday.

0:41Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog, Arsecast, right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. As you can probably tell, my voice is not in tip-top condition. You might think it's because I was away carousing around Bilbao, having a great time at the game and in the city in general. But really, that's not what it is. It's almost entirely down to the fact that we spent about 20 minutes singing the Gabriel Martinelli song after he opened the scoring for Arsenal the other night. You know, the song, the 20 pound song. That's the one.

1:20It rang out for a long, long time. It really did. And a consequence of that for me is the fact that I sound like this now. But, you know, first world problems and all that. I'm not here to complain. Not one bit. It was a fantastic trip. Brilliant to see Arsenal win. Great to experience. Not just the city of Bilbao, because if you're a regular listener, you will know it is one of my favorite places. I've been there a few times before, but I've never experienced the footballing side of Bilbao. And Tuesday morning, the day of the game, from early on, all you could see were their fans, the shirts everywhere, the flags everywhere, and the experience of the game, the way all the fans got on together, walking to the game together, standing around outside the pubs.

2:10Some of their fans looking a little bit bemused at some of the songs the Arsenal fans were singing, but it was all in such good spirits. It was just really lovely, heartwarming. I don't want to get a bit soppy or sentimental or anything, but when you spend a lot of time online, as many of us do, you get the impression that the world, and it is true to some extent, is an incredibly divided and contentious place. But this was a great example of how people just come together via the game that we all love. They want to experience the best of what football has to offer. And I think that's what we got.

2:49So I feel very lucky and very privileged to have been there. I know it's not like that every time Arsenal go away from home, particularly in some places in Europe. It's much more divided. But this was everybody together, the red and white, the Arsenal fans, the Athletic Club fans, the songs. Maybe communion is going a little bit over the top, but it's close enough, you know, just everyone in real life getting along. And maybe that's not something to take for granted. I got back to Dublin yesterday evening, a direct flight that took about 90 minutes. I was talking to people who were flying to places like Barcelona, they were flying to Milan, they were flying to Prague in order to get back to London.

3:37And that is a sign of the commitment of the traveling fans and what they are prepared to do to get to a game and also to get home from a game. So all of those Arsenal fans deserve a lot of credit. And I'm sure all of that travel feels worth it when you go away from home and you come back with a 2-0 win in the Champions League. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about that game now and talk about some of the players who stood out on the night. With me to do that this morning is Phil Costa. Good morning, Phil. Good morning, Andrew. Are you all pinchot, tortillered and ham on out?

4:12I mean, I'd love to say yes, but if you put some in front of me right now, I would be very tempted. Very tempted. It's such a great city, you know, it's small. The people are great. The food is amazing. You can just go from this place to the next place, a little bit here, a little bit there. Amazing. I do get the sense that from talking to people, you know, not just Arsenal fans, that everyone seemed to enjoy themselves in Bilbao. And look, the Athletic Club fans will obviously be very disappointed to lose the game, but it was such a big occasion for them talking to some of their fans before the game.

4:53It was really great, actually. The way that the fans mixed and mingled in the sunshine going up to the game, before the game, after the game, was really, really great. You don't get that in every European away game. that's for sure but it was really really lovely just to sort of be there but there was a sense of occasion for them because it was so long since they'd been in the Champions League this was their first time I think playing Champions League football at the the new San Mames Stadium and yeah a lot to like about the trip and about the city and about how everything went down you I do have a story because one of the themes of the week was like Arsenal fans making the trip to Bilbao in all kinds of ways, right?

5:41So I talked to people who took the Eurostar to Paris and then took like an eight, nine hour bus to get to Bilbao. People who flew to Mallorca, slept on the floor of the airport to get there. and they just made their way from everywhere. But here's a story. I was talking to somebody in Bilbao yesterday as I was waiting to, not waiting for my flight. My flight was much later in the day. So I was in a bar and I was having some pinchos, as you do, got talking to another Arsenal fan. And he had come from Brussels. And apparently there was a flight to Bilbao from Amsterdam that got cancelled. And there were two Arsenal fans in their shirts going like, what the fuck do we do now?

6:26And they got talking to a guy who paid for their flights from Amsterdam to Brussels and then onwards to Bilbao. No way. Yeah. Or just out of the goodness of his own heart. Absolutely out of the goodness of his own heart. It turns out this man, this man is the dad of one of our players. I'm not going to say the name, but he facilitated those Arsenal fans getting from Amsterdam where their flight was cancelled to Brussels to Bilbao so that's kind of the vibe of this whole trip was like people people having a great time together and people looking out for each other so that's kind of cool isn't it that's amazing yeah and actually to be honest Athletic are a great club a historic club and you know obviously during the 90 minutes it would have been war and I think we saw that during the game that there was a few drops of blood shared and some sweat and some tears and everything else in between.

7:25But they're an amazing club with great values, great history. I'm quickly expecting a use arse blog for a 20 % discount when you go through the Bass Tourism Board because this is just like the best propaganda they'll ever receive. But yeah, it's amazing. It's an amazing club with so much history. And even afterwards, they did a little video saying good luck to Arsenal for the rest of the campaign and stuff like that. So it's nice, right? Instead of getting chairs thrown through local restaurants, which has happened in the past and stuff like that, you know, it's just nice to be in a good environment with good food.

7:59You would have been there in the September sun as well, which is not so intense. Yeah, very jealous. It's an amazing stadium and it's one that's definitely on my list as well. Oh, I have to say, like, if anybody has the good fortune to get to an athletic club game, you should really take that chance. The stadium is brilliant. Like I was saying to you or to somebody the other day, the first time I went to Bilbao, I was like, I've got to get into that stadium and see a game at some point. So my plan, you know, was to come to Bilbao and watch an athletic club game. But, like, it's fantastic. The stands are really, really steep, right?

8:40So the noise, I've never been in a stadium that loud, ever, ever. At one point, they were whistling about something. I can't remember. Maybe it was one of our players was down. Maybe it was when we scored. Maybe it was when we had possession in their final third, and they were trying to whistle. But it was like literally, oh, my God, I kind of have to cover my ears for a little bit here. The stadium is brilliant. It really, really is. something to check out if you're able to do that at any point i would really really recommend it and the sort of pre-game anthem and the the singing and the scarves and the jumping it was really really impressive you know and everyone sort of around me in the away end was like oh this is actually very cool you know the way you're sort of preconditioned to be like wankers what the fuck are you doing you know yeah exactly to the opposition fans i mean there was a little bit of that but mostly there was just a lot of admiration for for their fans for the the pre-game display for the way that they were so welcoming and open to the Arsenal fans throughout and and what's you know something that doesn't get talked about a lot I think people know it but it doesn't get talked about a lot is their their Basque heritage and how in comparison to every other football club in Europe, their talent pool is tiny because they only choose players of Basque origin, born in the Basque country.

10:09And I think maybe of Basque parents, is that, does it stretch that far? It can stretch to lineage as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you think about our squad and where all of our players have come from and all the other teams in the Champions League, to sort of be there in that competition with That philosophy is really something a bit special. I'm not getting choked up here. It's just that my voice is gone from a bit of shouting and singing, of course, over the period of the 90 minutes, in particular after the first goal. It wouldn't be an away day without a croaky voice the next day, Andrew.

10:47But yeah, it's amazing. And the fact that they are able to meet these standards, to produce the players that they do. obviously real sociedad do it in a slightly different way their their borders are a bit more open should i say but only only up until recently did that law change so it's it's incredible obviously a big player as well missing nico williams who's another another one of their academy products so yeah just an amazing club um a really great history as well um so yeah look this was a fight on the pitch but i'm glad that you enjoyed it and had a nice time around the game as well because that makes the trip as well, right?

11:24To be comfortable and to enjoy yourself. For sure. And lots of great Arsenal fans out there. So hello and thank you to everybody that I met over the course of the weekend in various states of inebriation. Them mostly, not me. I was quite well behaved for the most part. Two lads I met on the walk home on Tuesday night were trying to get me to go to some nightclub with them. I was like, lads, you go ahead. you've got a few years on me you can deal with that I'm I know when my race is run let me say um so let's let's get into it then and talk about the football and talk about the game I was expecting just a little bit more rotation from the team going into this one but I'm guessing Mikel Arteta was looking at Tuesday to Sunday as a relatively short or relatively long period between games so rewarding or sticking with the players who did so well against Nottingham Forest might have been his plan.

12:24Were you a bit surprised there weren't a couple more changes? A little bit. I mean, we'd spoken about it. Oh, sorry, Andrew. I think my bloody door's gone again. Oh, no. We have doorbell music, though, so go for it. Right, I'm going to bolt one second.

13:08we're back so girlfriend ordered some boots so as you can imagine this is important stuff Well, yes. Are the boots safe and sound now? They are. They are in my passage and they are safe and ready to be worn. Okay. There's some phrasing right there, Phil. Anyway, we were talking about team selection and possible rotation. I thought maybe we might rotate a little more. Maybe we might see Wuneri play. Miles Lewis-Skelly could come into the team. And after what he did at the weekend, maybe Trossard would get a start on the left. But Arteta kept faith more or less with the team that played against Forrest.

13:47Yeah, we spoke about it before, didn't we, that there might have been some potential rotation in the team. A few players have had a busy schedule over the last couple of weeks, especially with the international break. Could we have seen a change at left back? Maybe someone else in place of Martin Odegaard. That's not me, Marino. Someone even on the left, potentially. But this, it became clear very quickly that this was a very European away game that we've come to know and love with the referee whistling every two minutes and the opposition falling down every two minutes. And just the general stop-start game in general that none of us like to watch, you know, very bitty, stop-start, lots of fouls and free kicks.

14:28And I think you could see by the lineup what we were trying to do or what Mikel Arteta was expecting from Athletic because he maybe knows them better than any of us about what they were going to give, what they were going to do, try and press us, try and be physical. And I think the first few minutes they sat off a little bit. We tried to figure them out, bait the press potentially, but they were quite solid and settled in their shape. And then all of a sudden after the first five or 10 minutes, they really had a go. They were sprinting about all over the place. I thought their shape was excellent.

15:01They were really doing a good job to close down the passing lane. So having seen that opening period, I thought, ooh, maybe it's not a bad thing that we've gone for a bit more experience, a bit more know-how. Obviously, Mourinho will have known this team as well. Mosquera will have known the team. Zubemendi will have known the team. So in the end, my initial feeling was leaning towards rotation. But then I thought maybe this is just the way to get match day one out of the way because it was a contest. It was a fight, right? And I think we went with some more experienced soldiers, if that makes sense.

15:35Yeah, it does. I mean, my personal preference might have been Winery in the Marino position, but I understood Marino as well because you are talking about, you know, well, that occasion that I mentioned and the fact that there is a little bit of rivalry, of course, between Arteta, a Real Sociedad man, Zubimendi in there as well, Mikel Moreno in there just adds that bit of experience and the flavor of the stadium. Am I right? I can't remember if I dreamt this or if I was talking to somebody. Zubimendi had said after the game that he'd never won there. So that will tell you, you know, just what a challenge it was for this Arsenal team.

16:15And, you know, from where we were, we were right behind the Arsenal goal in the first half. And what you could see very clearly was that Athletic had done their homework on how Arsenal play, how we try and move the ball through the lines. And they were set up in a really, really structured way to stop us making progressive passes into midfield. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, honestly, my opinion is that some of the narrative about this game was formed about our win against them in preseason. where we won 3-0, stress-free, Jocheres scored his first goal on a nice summer evening at the Emirates and everyone went home happy.

16:54But this was never going to be like that. Tuesday night was Athletic's first time in the Champions League in over a decade. It was only their third ever time in the competition and they were centre stage on opening night at home against one of the competition favourites. So this was never going to be easy and I made the mistake of calling it a once-in-a-lifetime occasion for their players because the Liverpool fans, Andrew, boy, did they find me. But I really meant it. I mean, this was a big night for the group with none of the starting 11 or anyone in the matchday squad, for that matter, making an appearance in the Champions League before.

17:28And you could see the way that they were playing, fighting, pressing, what the atmosphere was like, which I'm sure you can attest to, that they were up for this. And it's clear they'd done their homework. Valverde is a very competent coach. They will have seen how Arsenal like to play, how they like to progress the ball, which side they lean towards, obviously going towards the right. So I didn't get some of the initial frustration with how we were playing because obviously we weren't vintage Arsenal, it was not free-flowing fluid Arsenal, but there are two teams playing in a game of football, not just us.

18:03And sometimes you have to understand and respect that, that they will have a game plan as well. So, you know, I felt very early on that, oof, we're in a game here and it's not because of where they are in the league or that we should be beating them. They have their own motivations for winning a game. And especially when you're away from home, you have to accept that you won't be the protagonist for 90 minutes. So I was really impressed with them actually in that opening period. Maybe we weren't at our best. I thought a few passes went astray. We maybe weren't quick enough on the ball. We held onto it too long on occasion, but they had a game plan.

18:40They were looking to really fill out that middle area of the pitch. Zubimendi couldn't get on the ball. And from that point onwards, we were really struggling. So we only had one out ball, really, and that was to Madueke. So it was just a bit patchy, a bit bitty, but it was clear that they'd done their homework for sure. Yeah, 100%. You know, it was not a good first half. It wasn't much of a spectacle. It wasn't a great game. There weren't too many chances. But I think that was a consequence, as you say, of us not being at our best. And also athletic really making life difficult for us because of how hard they were working.

19:16There are only two chances that I can really remember in the first half. From an Arsenal perspective, there was Victor Jocharez who was sent through. And I was sort of in my time at the airport yesterday just noodling around. I saw some analysis of that moment from Thierry Henry saying that his touches have got to be better in that situation. where do you stand on that? Because I thought it was fascinating. I thought it was really interesting what he was saying that like, okay, your first touch has got to go here. All right, but if your first touch doesn't go there your second touch has got to go there.

19:53And I thought it was good analysis but it was also a little bit of Thierry Henry analyzing Victor Jokeres as if he was Thierry Henry in that position. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think Jacarese is quick, but he ain't Thierry Henry quick. And I sort of do recognize the point he's making about the touches that you take and how you make life more difficult. But I also think he's sort of applying standards of velocity to Jacarese that aren't really there. For sure. And this is not the first time he's done it either. And I think this is why maybe his managerial career hasn't gone incredibly well, because I know he's won the Olympics and he's had a few other big jobs.

20:42But this felt very Thierry Henry in that he looks at people and players and situations through the prism of his own talent and ability, you know, and that's a once in a generation player. player. He had, he had, if you were going to build a footballer, you'd build Thierry Henry. Tall, strong, quick, could finish off both feet, had an aura, a swagger about him as well. He could do the flare stuff. He could do the, the biting back when someone was getting into his ear. So this is, this is like build a player. Perfect. Sliders all to a hundred. So when he's analyzing Jocarez, who, who is, you know, one of the better forwards around in Europe at the moment has an unbelievable goal record.

21:23I don't think he does a whole lot wrong it's just of course would he have liked to have run across the defender a little bit yes but it wasn't always possible and to be fair the defender does well to get back and close the angle he closes the lane very quickly I think it's Vivian who was a bit a bit jumped up during the game to be honest he was always looking for a few bits and pieces but he did very well in that situation so i thought the touches were fine um we know that yokarez is a very hard runner he looks to get in behind the lot he's very intense he's very relentless but you're right he's not mbappe on re levels of quick because who is who is yeah like it's just not it's not normal so if i was going to have an issue with one of the touches it would probably be the last one because I don't think he quite gets the angle right for the shot to get enough power behind it.

22:18But either way, he's the one that made the chance, to be honest, with his movement and the sprinting in behind. So I can't be too grumpy with him, but obviously Thierry Henry will analyze it through the prism of his own talent. Sure. I mean, can you clarify for me, because the timeline is a little fucked up in my head, was that chance before or after the clash of heads? before was before okay all right well that was a an issue as well in that first half was um the nasty cut that he received to the back of his head when gabrielle tried to head him and the ball into the net i mean listen big gabby is solid as we know if there's one player in the arsenal team that you do not want to get loafed in the back of the head by i would say it's him there were a few head collisions in the game um but that one was a nasty one and i didn't initially see what happened it just looked like two players got in each other's way it was actually a an okay opportunity maybe for gabriel if your carist didn't didn't try and challenge for the ball but then you see them both go down gabriel's doing the old rubber the head and then you see yorker and he moves his hand slightly and there's just a massive gash um um open split completely split and you know I could almost feel that you know they were doing the staples on the pitch the headband came on as well so it's perfectly normal to be affected by that I think he obviously came back on it wasn't a concussion injury or anything it was more an impact injury but anybody would be affected by that that's a big man with a lot of weight and a lot of power coming towards the back of your head with his forehead so it's entirely normal that he would be affected by that.

24:06But then there was the other chance as well, the diving header, which was also before the clash of heads, I believe, which I thought was a good effort, actually. I thought it was a good crossing by Yuri and Timber, where some people might have a few questions about his end product, but he put in a good ball for Declan Rice against Forrest. And this was another excellent ball in as well. I thought Jokorish showed good determination and movement to get on the end of it. He just couldn't quite get the right angle on the header to kind of divert it towards goal. But I liked that. I liked the bit of movement and the desire to get there.

24:42It's not his natural game, I would say, but he had a few headers in this game that he didn't make the most of. But I was happy to see him in those positions as well, because some people maybe had a couple of questions about him and his heading ability coming into the club. But I think he's shown one or two bits that show he is capable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. there was a header in the second half wasn't there as a free header, which he sort of put wide. I think he was just trying to direct it back towards the, the far post at that point. Of course he had a big bandage on his head and who knows, you know, you say there's not concussion and I, you know, I get it.

25:15There probably wasn't, but at the same time, I imagine he was playing with a bit of a headache, you know, having, having been involved in, in that collision, the chance for athletic came right at the end. They had, they had a shot wide down Timber's side. Timber was up the other end, giving out to the linesman because his boot came off and he ran down the pitch complaining to the linesman that he didn't have time to put his shoe on or put his boot on again. I don't think there is a protocol to stop the game when a player loses a boot. So I'm not quite sure what he was complaining about there. It went wide and that's halftime.

25:54And in the second half, I think you could see we got Nani Matuweke into the game a little bit more. It was a point of discussion, you know, Eze on the left-hand side. I'm not saying he struggled, but he didn't really influence the game in the way that you might like, in part because of, you know, how well Athletic dealt with Arsenal when they came into central areas. But what we started to do a bit more in that second half was get the ball wide to Matuweke on the right, The end product wasn't always there, but he did start to cause them a few more problems. Yeah, definitely. You're right to say that Eze wasn't overly involved in the game.

26:37I was watching on TNT Sports and Fletch in particular was making such a big deal about Eze playing out wide, how he wasn't effective there, how he wasn't getting involved and that he usually plays more centrally for Palace. But I went back to watch some of the game over the last couple of days and he was actually taking up some good central areas. So I don't think that was an issue. I just don't think he played well on the day. And only some brilliant last ditch defending stopped him from scoring as well. So there was one moment in the first half where Arteta was screaming at him to stay wide to get back out to the touchline.

27:14And I think people saw that and kind of extrapolated that towards the rest of the game. But this is where he was playing for Palace as well, starting on the left with the ability and freedom to drift inside. So that's what I saw yesterday. I didn't see someone chained to the touchline. It just so happened that he didn't play very well. And I think for sure in the second half, our emphasis went towards Madueke. Berenguer, who was doing an excellent defensive job in the first half, maybe was slacking a little bit early on in the second half for that first 5, 10, 15 minutes. And then Madueke was able to isolate himself against the fullback, who by all means was doing a good job.

27:53But Madueke is showing that he can beat people, right? From a standing start, when he's running in behind, he can go to the byline, he can come inside. So there's real variety in his game. And I think we've been missing some of that in wide areas. So as well as the left back had done, I think his name was Adama, Madueke did get the better of him on two or three occasions in that second half. I think, yes, there was one in particular where all he had to do was just knock it across goal with his right. And he tried to do something with the outside of his left foot. And Unai Simon put a big hand out to stop it at the near post.

28:29There was another one where, again, hard along the ground. And he stood it up to the back post and it missed everyone. So that's where we'd like to see some improvement, just finding the right ball, knowing which type of pass to play and when can you pick someone out instead of just putting something in an area. But in terms of creating danger and getting Arsenal into good, dangerous goal scoring positions, he was the one, again, that was doing it for us. So that was certainly a point of encouragement for us in the second half. Both managers made changes. Athletic made a couple, I think, before we did.

29:07Trossard came on for Jokeres, and then it was Martinelli who was on for Eze, was it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So 30 seconds, 36 seconds, I think it was, after Martinelli came on, he opened the scoring with what I think is a really good goal. It's not like one of those perfectly, brilliantly worked goals. You know, you have possession for a while. I think they had a goal kick or Unai Simon launched the ball. Mosquera read it really well, as he did all game. And we're going to talk about Mosquera in a minute. If we can contain our excitement, we'll do that. He headed it forward. Rice flicked it on. Trossard flicked it over the top.

29:51And Martinelli, who has had a difficult time of late, there's no two ways about it, has the opportunity to make something happen. And part of the reason people have been a bit frustrated with him is that not necessarily in these moments, but in other moments, he hasn't quite capitalized on the opportunities he has to exploit space behind the opposition defense. On this occasion, I think his first touch is all right. His second touch is absolutely brilliant. It really is a brilliant touch because the ball is ever so slightly behind him. He gets it out in front of him. He could potentially square it for Nani Maduweke, but I think you want a player, once he's got himself into that position, to back himself, to take the shot, to put the ball in the back of the net.

30:46It's not the most convincing finish. It doesn't matter, though. I think it's the right thing to do for him to shoot. squirms under Unai Simon into the back of the net 1-0 to Arsenal a big moment in the game of course but a big, big moment for Gabriel Martinelli too and you could see how much it meant to him and how his teammates reacted I think was really, really instructive Calafiore just sort of grabs him and he's pointing at his shirt he's looking up at the way end and pointing at his shirt it felt like a really big moment for Martinelli on a personal level You know, I'm very happy he scored the goal from an Arsenal perspective.

31:26It puts us 1-0 up. But I think for him, he really, really needed that. Oh, yeah, he needed it for sure. And we needed that as well in that moment of the game because we were just beginning to sort of develop or play into this lull. We weren't really creating much. Athletic had made a couple of changes that gave them something a bit extra. And I thought, okay, Mikel, now it feels like the time for us to do something. I think we need to give the game a different impetus and energy. It wasn't quite working with Eze. Jocheres had sort of run his socks off. He'd been smashed in the back of the head.

32:01He'd missed a couple of chances. So how can we change it? And I think what was the main narrative going on in my mind was that we left it too late at Anfield. Let's not make the same mistake again. And I think we saw that. Two perfect players to come on in this particular game state, I felt. Trossard, a different player to Jocheres, someone who likes to come deep, drop deep, link with other people. He's a lot more comfortable receiving the ball with his sort of backs to the defenders and everything. Whereas Martinelli, bang, energy, likes to run in behind. And we saw that exact combination for the goal.

32:34So it was an incredible moment for him. Like you, I thought he'd messed it up a little bit. The ball looked to be stuck behind him, but just that little, that little flick, that little nudge away from the defender really took him out of the, of the game. He could then break into a, into a sprint and nobody was catching him at that point. I don't know if, if the pass was ever on, to be honest, I know Madueke was there in support, but if he'd squared that, I would have been screaming at my TV for him not to take that shot on. So yeah, a really good moment for him. Um, a good moment for Trossard as well, who just keeps scoring and assisting.

33:09He's just an end product machine and we can touch on him afterwards as well. But you know, this was a real, a real moment for Martinelli and one that we've seen a few times in Europe. You know, he scored against Madrid at the Bernabeu. He scored a similar goal against Sevilla. There was another moment where he nearly scored an unbelievable goal against Sporting in the Europa League where he ran from well inside his own half and was just stopped at the last minute by the Sporting defender after he rounded the goalkeeper. So this type of environment, this type of game state, I think, suits him a lot.

33:43Whereas from the start, it's a bit difficult because you need to be a bit more associative. You need to link with people. You need to find ways to stand people up. But when there's space, when there's tiring legs, when there's high lines to exploit, he's the perfect sub. The perfect opportunity for us to get in behind, add a new thing to the game. And of course, he's been disappointing. But this is why we have a squad. Well, yeah. Competition does things to people. For sure. I mean, I think it's a case, you know, when a club signs a player and it's mad. I said, we're going to talk about Muscara and we will.

34:20But like I saw literally people saying after Muscara's first couple of games, you know, maybe Saliba goes to Real Madrid. It's not the worst thing in the world. And I'm like, by the way, Kate, with Saka. Exactly. What the fuck is going on, people? You know, we all love the shiny new toy, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And when it comes to Martinelli, you know, I think criticism of his performances, his form, that's perfectly valid. You know, it all depends how you talk about a player. You can be critical and not coat them off like, you know, some people do. And I think it's, you know, it's not unreasonable to say, hey, is Gabriel Martinelli the player we thought he was going to be?

35:03Like a couple of years ago, has he developed into that player? Probably not. But does that mean he's like a completely busted flush that we have to just get rid of because we've got Jokeres now or we've got Eze or we've got Madoeke? Just no. You know, what I think you have to recognize is you can build depth and depth is really good and really important. But within that depth, you need variety. And I think Martinelli is basically the only player in our squad, apart from maybe Madoeke, who can score that goal because he's got the pace, right? So you look at Yacarez and Havertz. They're two different center forwards.

35:42Matuweke and Bukayo Saka play that right wing role differently from each other. They're very different players, you know, very capable, but they do things differently. Eze and Trossard, you can see that there might be some similarities with them with their technical ability, the way that they can drift into central areas and hurt opposition players. But Martinelli is a different option on that left-hand side. So you can't just, because you've got a new thing, discard the old thing as completely useless. And I think the evidence of that over the last two games is right there in front of everybody's eyes.

36:19Martinelli scored and got an assist. Trossard scored and got an assist to add to the assist that he got in the game against Forrest. You know, we need these players. We can't just because a player is in a bad run of form or he's the wrong side of 30 in some people's minds. You know, what use would have 20 million euros been to us on Tuesday night without Trossard? You know, we need these guys and we're maybe right to expect a little bit more from Martinelli, but let's recognize the fact that he came up trumps for us in this game. Got the opening goal, got an assist for Trossard. First time ever that two players have come off the bench to score and assist each other.

37:08This is what a big squad is and this is what you should hope to get from a big squad. You know, these players are responding and delivering, and I think they deserve a lot of credit. Arteta, you know, played it down, inspired substitutions, however you want to put it. He bigged up the players. He bigged up Trossard. He particularly bigged up Martinelli, who I think probably needed it because, you know, he's been peripheral after being so important. Again, that's not me being emotional. It's my voice going. But, you know, I was really, really pleased for both of those guys. Definitely. And it goes back to squad depth again.

37:47Last season, we didn't have this ability to power up, to change the dynamics of our attack towards the end of games because we were A, broken by injury, but then we had Raheem Sterling, Ismail Kavya and Jack Henry Francis on the bench. And none of that was their fault. Sterling has had an amazing career and I'm sure the other two will go on to do good things as well. but there's levels to this like trossard i know you spoke about what good would 20 million pounds have done from turkey i i would have actually been fine with him leaving this summer for the right price not for any price for the right price but he's been an output machine since signing for arsenal only saka has more goals and assists than him in that same time frame and this was another tangible impact from him i can't argue with his record because whenever he's asked to contribute he usually does, whether that's from the bench or the start.

38:39And every successful squad or every successful team needs a player like him. I mean, the flick to set Martinelli away was great. Then he showed good composure in the box for his goal. I know there was a big deflection, but he's always been someone comfortable in those tighter areas with people around. He can always dig out a shot. So look at his movement actually to receive the ball from Martinelli. He goes, yeah, he pulls back. He goes one side of the defender, then pulls back just to have the space. Yeah, and that all needs to be done in a split second. You know, Martinelli's done really well to beat his man.

39:10I think you could see he was confident in that moment, playing a bit more on instinct. But this is what you need, especially in Europe, where games are draining. They're physical. You need to make any moment count, any chance count. And they did. And I know people have issues with Arteta being a bit corny at times. But I do think there's value in the finishers line because people have asked, how will he keep everyone happy? there's a big squad to rotate you need to keep them involved motivated present with the group and little things like this matter i think it seems a bit cringy from the outside but when you're in that environment every day in the squad training feeling like you can still contribute regardless of your standing in the squad where your form is at it must be assuring and i know Trossard's got a bit of a reputation for being a bit grumpy and a bit moany.

40:02But I would rather have that than people who are just happy to collect their wages on the bench every week or in the squad or not even in the matchday squad. I think people should have a fire in their belly. And if you're a professional footballer that's not playing, you're not happy. So this is how you make your opportunities count. And that's how you get back into the team you score goals and you assist goals when you've come onto the pitch so this this is just what it's like to be an elite team you need to be competitive you have to show things when you're on the pitch you can't coast through games and whether or not we think they will start at city they have given their cases no harm so that's the main thing for me in terms of where we are and in terms of where athletic are this is a game arsenal should have won but there are there are other factors that you need to consider i mean over the last two seasons they've only lost five times at home in all competitions including this game which is an unbelievable record they had the best defensive record in la liga last season you know they conceded 29 goals one fewer than than atletico madrid who we consider one of the best defensive teams in europe you know so they're no mugs and we had to fight we had to battle it wasn't pretty we were stodgy but then we had the game changers on the bench when we needed them.

41:23So this is the main thing for me. We need to show different faces. We need to have players who offer us different things. We need to be able to charge up. And I think I saw all of that in the second half. You know, it's still early. It's so early on in the season. We've still got people to figure out, automatisms to fix, you know, and some people have drawn parallels to the Lons game that we lost two years ago in very similar circumstances. It was their first group game, the first time in the Champions League. Everybody was up for it. And I think that's a really good comparison. Yeah. But we lost that game.

41:54Well, I was going to ask you, do you think this is like a sign of the growing maturity experience of this team? Because, you know, on paper, you look at this and it's like just the perfect away European day. You know, you're strong, strong defensively and you have the quality to nick the game. And it feels like the sort of performance and result that clubs that are perceived as like the big clubs and the successful clubs in Europe, they manage to produce season after season after season after season. And I think that's basically what we got from Arsenal because you're away, you deny them really any opportunity on goal.

42:35They didn't threaten really. And you have the quality, I'm not going to say to nick it, but you've got the quality to win it late on with changes from the bench. If you'd offered every Arsenal fan that before the game, I think they'd have taken it. Who wouldn't? You'd be crazy not to take that. that so this is a this is a long old season and there's a lot of games in the Champions League we're gonna have to play uh opposition and teams from different countries with a different level but this was a tough one this was a difficult game and I'm absolutely sure that they will take points off people at home this season so to get out of there with a few a few bruises and a few knocks and some blood you know from a from a head clash or whatever that's fine put the three points in the bag and we move on and and we've got stuff to do we've got games to win we've got city this weekend um there will be chances for players to get in but that was the team that he chose we we we found a team for the occasion it was a physical one it was an experienced one did it look great no did we play that well not really but we did enough to get over the line and that's the most important thing for me it's match day one you know it's not match day six where i'm looking for a bit more of a sample size in terms of how we're going to play, how we're going to look for the season.

43:55I'm just happy to get the points. We've got a huge game on the weekend. So that was my main focus. Sure. And I think one thing to point out is it's another clean sheet for Arsenal. You know, five games into the season in all competitions, we've conceded one goal and that one goal was an absolute worldie of a free kick from Dominic Soboslai. And apart from that, we have not conceded a goal this season. And that, I think, is a point of discussion for this and obviously brings us back around to, let's say, Christian Mosquera. But the defensive quality and stability that we have in this game, like I know it wasn't a great game, but I was looking at the two fullbacks from the stand and thinking, yeah, Calafuri, very good again.

44:41There was one moment he made just a brilliant interception in our box to snuff out any danger. Timber really good. Before we get to Mosquera, what can we say that hasn't already been said about Gabriel? Because this guy is an absolute colossus of a defender. And the consistency that he plays with is unbelievable, isn't it? And it's just, I don't know, it's off the charts how good he is week in, week out. Yeah, I do want to talk about Mascara, but just a word for Gabriel before we do that. He's brilliant. He's absolutely brilliant. And I think Arsenal being good at defending is nothing new, but I really think it's overlooked and bizarrely used as a criticism because of how strong we are as a team.

45:30And I think with Arsenal fans in particular, I'm not talking about other fans, we've we've become too too normal normalized with this too familiar with how well we defend and i think some of that creeps into gabriel as well because he's just every week he is perfect like in the air amazing defending wide areas amazing organizing the back four amazing screaming at everybody and their grandmas amazing physical when he needs to be physical careful when he needs to be careful his distribution is improving week on week like he's so good on the ball now genuinely compared to what he was when he first arrived he was nervy he had a bit of the bozo gene he's so steady so secure i love the role the kind of leadership role he's taken in the team now he was wearing the armband on tuesday of course and it suited him very nicely um he he's he's he's brilliant he's absolutely brilliant and i think for all of the good things that arteta has done at this club gabriel might be his biggest success story both in terms of the the transfer fee i know he wasn't directly involved in that but um he would have been part of the decision to sign him but the development the physical the mental the tactical development of this player has been nothing short of exceptional.

46:53And when Saliba is out, you know, that's one thing, but he is just the glue in that back four. And beyond Van Dijk, beyond Virgil Van Dijk, I couldn't tell you a defender that I think is playing at a higher level than Gabriel at this moment in time. Genuinely. Yep, that's fair. That's fair. But let's talk about a young man who's really, really impressed over the last couple of weeks, and that is Christian Mosquera. I think there was a time not too long ago at all when Mikel Arteta would have risked William Saliba for this game. He was in the squad. He was on the bench. He was warming up. But Arteta felt like he could trust Mosquera.

47:38And that trust was absolutely rewarded with a fantastically assured performance from a 21-year-old player playing his first Champions League game, I guess. It would have been, yeah. You know, and again, away from home, the occasion, difficult opposition. He does have good players around him, and that helps. You know, you've got Timber one side of you, Gabriel the other side. But this guy is confident. You can see the way he moves, the way he communicates on the pitch. I was watching a bit of that because we were talking about the other day what a talker he is and the way that he moves around and the way that he is able to read the game at such a young age, I think is absolutely sensational.

48:23And it was a real point of discussion among the fans in the stand on Tuesday night, just like, whoa, whoa, this guy is something. And look, you can jump the gun, you can get ahead of yourself. The sample size is small, all of those things. I sort of expect Saliba to come back into the team on Sunday. But if he's not quite ready and Mikel Arteta decides to go with Mosquera, it's a testament to what we've seen from him so far that I would feel pretty comfortable if he had to play against Man City. I think, you know, obviously I prefer Saliba because Saliba has just been as good as Gabriel, basically.

49:10His consistency is incredible too. But we have to give flowers to a young guy when he comes into the team and performs at that level. What do we have here, Andrew? How exciting. In amongst all this, there's a sense of finally, because William Saliba is out and our season isn't hanging by a thread. So already, big tick for the checklist. but for this guy to come in at Anfield in the fourth minute and look so settled right to play so flawlessly against Nottingham Forest and then drop into this cauldron I know he's played there before but he's alongside new players new partners and breeze through again like that it's it's unbelievable really and I watched a little compilation of his performance again this morning and everything looks so easy granted he'll have tougher tests and I think when you join a new club there's always this kind of honeymoon period where you're floating a little bit people haven't figured you out yet we haven't seen your your mistakes or any flaws in the the little flaws that exist in your game but there was some really good stuff in possession his defensive fundamentals are excellent you know in terms of body shape body positioning coming across on the cover easing people off the ball so good so good and there was one moment in the second half where he was isolated in a in a 2v1 after timber was caught upfield but he did that thing where you sort of slant your body to the side to cover the man on the ball but also the passing lane for the player in support and they ended up messing up the the attack because they they got caught in a bit of a halfway house between making the pass and the player going inside but that was all because of mascara he he managed that situation perfectly he came away with the ball and off we went again and that was such mature defending and the amazing thing is he wasn't a secret this isn't someone we've just plucked from South America you know he was playing regularly for Valencia since coming into the team what was it two years ago now more or less he'd started 70 of a possible 72 league games so he's young in terms of his actual age but not that young in terms of his football age and I think that makes a big difference yeah he just plays with a with a maturity with a confidence and you remember how we took advantage of some financial issues at malaga to pinch santi cazorla yeah this reminds me a bit of that you know that one year left on his deal valencia was struggling a little bit we came in we convinced the player and thank you very much 13 million pounds that gets you nothing these days nothing you know maybe even maybe maybe even a backup goalkeeper can cost you that and we've got a you know a spanish quality spanish international quality defender comfortably in my mind so the fact that we feel comfortable with him already is a testament to him testament to the impact that he's made and you're absolutely right about sunday by the way if saliba is not 100 or he can't make it i would have no issue with with him being in the team.

52:14And that is a sentence I'd never thought I would say so quickly. Yeah. I mean, thank you to Peter Lim for his haphazard ramshackle way of running Valencia that they've lost a player like this for so little. We did take big advantage of that situation, but you know, that's what you got to do. Football is a ruthless game. I mean, the defensive side is obvious, right? When you see his positioning, when you see his reading of the game, as I mentioned, what What I liked as well was Christian Mosquera on the ball. No Arsenal player made more passes on Tuesday night than Christian Mosquera. No Arsenal player successfully completed as many passes.

52:5695 % pass completion. And Timber, Gabriel, around 85%. Zubimendi, 89%. You know, that tells you with that volume of passing, just how good he is on the ball. And there was like one in particular, I think it was second, it was second half where he sort of won the ball. He looked up and he just sort of like almost like a slingshot played this pass into Declan Rice into midfield. And that was such a brave pass because there was probably an easier option for him to take. but his willingness to make that pass, the bravery on the ball and the vision to see it as well is so impressive. Yeah, really good.

53:41Really, really good. And it's funny because when I was doing some research on him, I went through the numbers and the data. I watched a lot of him as well before we spoke about him on the New Player pod and in the article as well. But he felt quite safe and steady in possession. He was quite happy to play the short passes. He would go out to a fullback, to a defensive midfielder, you know, nothing overly ambitious or impressive in terms of his distribution. Just very safe. That was the word I would use. I think he had a 92 % completion rate last year, which obviously deserves a lot of credit anyway, regardless of what kind of passes you're playing.

54:18But I didn't know he had this level of distribution in his game. And maybe that relates to what's around him now. maybe he's playing with a with a renewed sense of confidence but you're right in in all of the games that he's been in so far I think there have been one or two moments or one or two passes where you you think oh where did that come from you know there'd be like a a pass that went out wide to the left winger or a pass that was fizzed up the line to timber another one into rice and what I like about him as well is that when he's clearing the ball or making a challenge or looking to intercept the ball it's never just whacked clear there's always an idea or an intention behind it you know and i think we saw that against forest there was one interception that he made and he just curled a lovely little a lovely little pass out to ezer with his left foot and i think yesterday there were a few more of those where even the header that led up to the goal it wasn't just boshed away you know it went towards a player in space so it shows that he's thinking about that as well really good really really really good and I think you need to credit the scouting you need to credit how we got in there and managed to convince the player to come in and be sort of involved in this squad which might not always be an attractive prospect for for young players because they know that they've got two titans ahead of them so all of this deserves credit Arteta the scouting team Andre Berta but sometimes players can just surprise you and he is absolutely doing that I I don't know if anybody at the club would have envisaged him coming in and playing at this level so quickly and so comfortably, but very happy with him.

55:55I think he's done an amazing job. Yeah, brilliant. And, you know, a really good collective way to start our Champions League season, 2-0 away from home. Tuesday night, we're not playing on a Thursday like Manchester City, playing tonight against Napoli, which, you know, I don't know if it gives us a huge advantage when it comes to Sunday, but it's certainly going to be a factor. And I think Pep Guardiola will have to think a bit more about his team tonight versus the team he wants to play on Sunday. So hopefully that's something we can take advantage of. We will take a closer look at the Man City game in our preview podcast on Patreon tomorrow.

56:34Just briefly on the English teams in Europe this week, a bit of a mixed bag. Chelsea obviously beaten by Bayern Munich. That's good. and one of our upcoming opponents beaten by Liverpool, who yet again find another late goal to win a game. It's sort of absurd at this stage, isn't it? Yeah. Whatever voodoo is happening in that stadium or whatever Arna Slott's got on the bench, if they're spraying some magical powder on the goal lines before the games, I would like it to stop if possible because that's now, I think, five games this season where they've scored goals in the 85th minute or later, which again, depends on how you see it.

57:20It could be lucky, could be something positive, the sign of champions, the mentality of champions to keep going, to find a way to break through. But at some point, at some point, regardless of where you stand, this can't continue. No. Can it? No, it can't. I don't know. I think, you know, there is a point where it just doesn't happen. It was interesting. I had the radio on this morning when I was making breakfast and they had Andy Robertson on and he was talking about, yeah, that's great. You know, the character to win games late, that's very good. But, you know, they were 2-0 up. And he said, he made the point, we have to stop letting teams back into games.

58:00That was the bigger issue for him because I think players recognize and understand and managers as well, they know that the last minute winner won't always come. And that can be damaging. And hopefully it starts to happen soon for them domestically rather than in Europe at this point. Diego Simeone sent off in that game as well. He said he was being insulted all game from behind the bench. So, Tayo, you know what to do when we're playing Atletico. I mean, come on, Diego. This isn't your first rodeo, mate. and I think you more than anybody will know what it's like to give a bit of stick to people.

58:42So yeah, that just felt like a heads gone moment. They've conceded a late goal having worked so hard to get back into the game. But yeah, I mean, I looked at the team, I looked at Atletico's team and I know they were missing Julio and Alvarez. But there is a real lack of quality in that team, considering when you think about who's been in their team in years gone by when they've pushed Barcelona and Real Madrid to the final day for league titles and they've been involved in the Champions League up to the wire as well. I looked yesterday and I thought, who are some of these guys? You know, just really, really disappointing.

59:18Javi Galan at left back, Pablo Barrios in midfield, you know, Nico Gonzalez in the wide area, Simeone as well. I don't know, I was a bit surprised at their lack of quality. But yeah, Liverpool find a way again. It's three points. It's a winning start to the league phase. So yeah, a bit disappointing, but at least Chelsea gave us a more positive note. Caicedo with an excellent performance playing attacking midfield for Bayern. A real influential performance and a great assist for Harry Kane as well for his second goal. So yeah, not a good afternoon for him. And someone just needs to take Cole Palmer out because every time he plays, Chelsea seem to do something good.

1:00:02But yeah, early days, early days. But I think we'll back ourselves here considering the fixtures we've got. All right. I don't think my voice is going to stand up to too much more. So let's leave it there for now. As ever, Phil, thank you very much indeed. Nice one, mate. Go and get some honey and lemon tea.

1:00:26Hi, I'm Nick, co-host of The Best One Yet. You optimize your workouts, your portfolios, and that rando startup idea that hit you in the middle of the shower. But if you're not hydrated, you're already playing catch-up. So we keep a stash of Liquid IV in our studio. One stick mixed into 16 ounces of water is clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone with three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting, the best business news ever, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you.

1:00:54So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you. Could AI help you do more of what you love? Workday is the AI platform for HR and finance that actually knows your business. We help you handle the have-to-dos so you can focus on the can't-wait-to-dos. It's a new Workday. Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops, Like when someone brings donuts into the office, or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds.

1:01:35Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you, so you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications. Individual results may vary.

1:02:19croak something out so apologies for that nevertheless i do hope you have enjoyed the show and the discussion about our our win over athletic club we will look ahead to the big game at the weekend against manchester city over on patreon tomorrow myself and lewis ambrose will have our usual premier league preview podcast for you if you want to get involved in that it is patreon.com forward slash arse blog that's patreon.com forward slash arse blog and once Once again, our Arsecast Extra is being recorded pretty soon after the final whistle on Sunday. So there will be an Arsecast Extra for you on Sunday.

1:02:55Hopefully it's another goodly evening. Hopefully we can continue our great defensive form and find a couple of goals or even just one goal against Manchester City to win the game and take all three points. Fingers crossed for that, right? I'm going to leave it there for now. Thanks as always for being here. Really do appreciate you downloading, listening, supporting the podcast, however you do it. For now, take it easy and we will catch you on the next one.

1:04:03This message is brought to you by Cologuard. If you recorded songs off the radio for a mixtape, it might be time to scream for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is non-invasive, requires no special prep or time off, and you start screening right from your home. It's just three simple steps, set up, sample, and ship. If you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your doctor about the Cologuard test, available by prescription only. Learn more or request a prescription at colaguard.com slash podcast.