Episode 847 - European rotation

0:23Tim Stillman: Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? I hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. We have got Champions League action, relatively uncomplicated Champions League action to get our teeth into today. For the second successive game in Europe this season, Arsenal came out on top. Two goals to nil. Winners, of course. After doing that to Athletic Club in Bilbao a couple of weeks ago, Olympiacos were the visitors last night to the Emirates. And it looked like it was a game we might kind of run away with a bit. But as ever with this team, with Olympiacos, things turned out to be not quite as simple as they seemed.

1:10Tim Stillman: While Arsenal probably should have done better in certain areas, there were moments of danger from the Greek side to David Ryan action. So we'll talk about all of that on today's show. I think there's some interesting conversations to be had about a couple of players in particular. and what last night told us about this continued squad depth discussion that has been part of the Arsenal discourse since the start of the season. But certainly over the last couple of weeks, it's come to the fore because Mikel Arteta has changed his team around and got results with those teams. And this is one of the areas I think when people were assessing the manager going into this season, they wanted to see him do this and they wanted to see him do it effectively.

1:53Tim Stillman: Early days still, of course, but so far so good, I think, in the grand scheme of things. I did enjoy, by the way, on TNT Sports afterwards, Martin Keown mixing his metaphors a little bit when he was talking about that Arsenal performance. Here's what he had to say. It was a game of chess, then it's a game set match to Arsenal. We cross now to the World Chess Championships with Magnus Carlsen about to serve. You can't be serious, man. You cannot be serious. That ball was on the line. Chalk flew up. Well, you know what they say. You've got to get your bishop to second base before you can birdie a hat-trick in the line-out.

2:35Tim Stillman: So, I think there's a lesson there for all of us. Right, let's get on with today's show and with me to look back at last night's 2-0 win over Olympiacos and more is Tim Stillman. Good morning, Tim. Good morning. I heard you on Arsenal Vision talk about how after the opening six games of the season, well, you know, including the or not including the Cup games, there was a level of complication to our fixture list. And you were talking about how you were looking forward to maybe this one being relatively an easier night. Let's say we could get a couple of goals and win this game relatively comfortably.

3:10Tim Stillman: It wasn't quite that, but also I think it's one of those games that when you're a good team and Arsenal are a good team, in the grand scheme of things, it sort of goes down as routine because we kind of do this a lot.

3:28Arseblog: Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the, I think we're just, because of the schedule and the fixture list, we're getting more games like this now that are just basically completely forgettable. It actually reminded me a little bit of the Port Vale game, maybe, in that we kind of went 1-0 up quite early. You felt like we were going to build on that and you thought, okay, this is going to be 3 or 4-0. It doesn't quite happen. and then you get that kind of anxiety that maybe it's becoming too easy and the team starts sleepwalking a little bit. And it was reasonably edgy until that late goal. And obviously, I think Olympiacos have a lot more quality than Port Vale as well.

4:11Arseblog: So I think it's just one of those games you're going to see a lot with this kind of increased Champions League. And because of the economic advantage a team like Arsenal has, they can make six changes and really they can still win at 70%. So they'll take that option. I don't think for one second Mikel Arteta told the team to do that. I'm pretty sure the plan was probably more, let's be two or three goals up reasonably early. Maybe then we don't even have to use players like Saka and Rice. We can perhaps reach into the bench for a Dalman or a Nuanieri or something. And I'm sure that maybe privately Arteta was not annoyed, but hoping not to have to use some of those players at all.

4:52But I just think this is kind of modern football now.

4:56Arseblog: And it actually, it really reminded me of, I was going to say, do you remember? I imagine most of the listeners won't even remember. We played Shakhtar at home like October last year and we won 1-0 and it was dreadful. And there wasn't really any real danger of us not winning. But while it's 1-0, it's a little bit edgy. and yeah this this is just one of those games that in two to three weeks nobody will remember

5:23Tim Stillman: and think about again because football is just becoming yeah so packed that you just you just get a lot of forgettable games now so funny what you're saying uh we played shaktar and immediately if my mind was a fishing line i was throwing it back fucking 15 20 years going which i know tim's got a brilliant memory for these games but like last year i can tell you um maybe this says something about me or it says something about that game or maybe both I don't remember it at all so that that will tell you that'll tell you something all right I mean he did make changes and I think this is one of the one of the interesting parts of the Arsenal discussion narrative however you want to call it this season is the idea that we have this big squad we have to rotate we have to to give players chances, however you want to prioritize those things, whether it's about wresting players out of a game, whether it's about keeping players on their toes with competition, whether it's about opportunities for certain players, whatever it is.

6:29Tim Stillman: This has been like a thing that people have often spoken about with Mikel Arteta and his apparent preference for using a very, very small group of players. Personally, I think it's been more a case of circumstance than actual preference. I mean, last season, he didn't really have anybody. He talked about that in the press conference afterwards saying, you know, we had academy kids who'd never played professional football, let alone Champions League games. Previous seasons, you get to the business end of things. I understand slightly the desire to stick with what might be perceived your best 11 or your best 13, 14 players, because literally the stakes are so high.

7:13Tim Stillman: You're going for a title. You're going for a championship. So in the context of that discussion, how have you viewed not just last night where he did make those changes and played, for example, Martinelli on the right. Mikel Moreno comes into midfield and does the Declan Rice job, so to speak. You know, I think these are exactly the kind of team selections we should see. Ben White, Miles Lewis-Skelly coming in. Absolutely. This is what we should be doing. Over the course of the opening weeks of the season, do you think it's been effective? and in terms of last night, you know, it produced decent displays from some of those players.

7:55Tim Stillman: And, you know, as we look forward at what's to come, this is something he's going to have to maintain, isn't it?

8:04Arseblog: Yeah, definitely. This to me is like the final stage, really, of the kind of evolution of Arsenal under Mikel Arteta, where the team gets a bit better, then the bench gets a bit better. And now we're at a stage where we've got guys sometimes who can't even get on the bench who are really, really good players. And I think the biggest kind of testament you can pay to that is some of the players we've been missing in massive games in the first kind of six weeks of the season. And it barely warrants discussion. It's barely discussed that we're playing like a team like Liverpool without Saka, for example, like the hardest fixture of the season.

8:43Arseblog: no Saka no Havertz which is a position we were in last season and look at the players that were sometimes having to step in um in those scenarios and and like missing a player like Erdegaard who I know we'll talk about like I think that's been under discussed undervalued how much we miss a player like that because really good players come in and you look at someone like you know we we had a discussion on Arsenal Vision over the summer looking at Mikel Marino and we were like if there aren't injuries. Is he going to play? Is he going to get on the bench? I always thought he'd have a role to play, but he's had quite a big role to play.

9:20Arseblog: Even players like Trossard and Martinelli, who a lot of us, I think understandably, were ready to write off. Players we've had for a while. We've bought new attackers, new shiny attackers that we really like, which we had to do and was overdue. But players like Trossard and Martinelli, they're still highly involved in this team. And I think that's one of the things that Arteta's managed really well is that kind of gentle rotation piece, that kind of, we'll change two or three players and nobody will really talk about it because we can do that. And we'll have different substitutes for different games.

9:55Arseblog: And like even Nguyen-Eri not getting on the bench against Newcastle, I'm sure the conversation there was, well, actually, we've got Marino and Erdegaard on the bench and this is a tough away game. so frankly we probably won but there'll be another game in a week or two where we can and because that's the skill of it as well it's not just the resting players and promoting competition and things like that it's it's also about making everyone feel involved and and it feels like at the moment that everyone is like i'm not looking at any players and thinking oh like that player just can't get on the pitch.

10:32Arseblog: It feels like everyone's involved. It doesn't feel or look like we've got players who just can't even get off the bench. So it's really, really healthy. I think Arteta would have wanted this for a long, long time. It's just it takes a long, long time. You can't fix all of your problems at once. Sure. This is, like I said, I feel like the final stage. And I know James has made this point on the Ask Cast Extra as well. it almost feels like this is probably as good as it's ever going to be depth-wise because we'll probably get really really good players who are a bit like I could probably start for most teams every week but I can't here so I you know I think I think one of the things maybe Arsenal did last season was just underestimate what the Champions League expansion meant going to the Carabao Cup semi-final I think in hindsight was terrible for our season we didn't have the squad to manage those games I don't think I think we do now if we got to a Carabao Cup semi-final pretty much whoever we played I'd feel comfortable going with players like Marino and you know Hinkapi and you know all those kind of depth players who I just wouldn't bat an eyelid if they were starting games

11:48Tim Stillman: yeah there was a great shot in the towards the end of the game on tv you probably wouldn't have seen it um but in the tunnel Havertz, Madueke, uh Incapier, Gabriel Jesus you know these guys uh who are out and not available even to be in the squad and then you look at the bench last night you're thinking fuck that is a hell of a bench that is not the sort of uh double-barreled academy kids uh bench that we saw you know too often last season and actually the the academy has made our

12:19Arseblog: squad a lot deeper as well because in the last year we've had three kids come through who've made that squad even bigger that we haven't gone out and bought and yeah a couple of them are probably ahead of schedule as well so that's like someone like max downman um for example

12:36Tim Stillman: that's made the squad deeper too sure so look let's talk a little bit about the game before we circle back around to some individuals and some players and performances and listen we should have been ahead much sooner than we were gabriel martinelli had a great chance one of those where he goes with his head it sort of came off his shoulder and went wide but an interesting move interesting piece of movement from him you know typically he's deployed on the right hand side but there's been this discussion about him in central areas what can he do in central areas and it's not just about let's say bombing down the middle of the pitch being set free against the defense that's pushed high i thought this was interesting movement from him i think he should of scored.

13:17But he did get the goal and it came from Martin Odegaard playing a pass through to

13:23Tim Stillman: Victor Jokeres. And it's a good pass, but I also think you have to give a lot of credit to Jokeres for the persistence, for the strength, for the power that he showed to hold off two defenders, two fairly decent defenders too, because he got another buffeting last night. I think after the game he played against Newcastle. He's going to have some bruises, I think, this weekend, but I get the sense that that's kind of the game he relishes. You know, there's a sort of bull in a china shop element to the way that he plays the game. He got a shot away another night that just sort of trickles over the line and it's a goal for Jokeres and we're talking about him, but it didn't hit the post.

14:06Tim Stillman: Gabriel Martinelli alive, aware in there just to stick it on from close range.

14:11Arseblog: Yeah, I think what we're seeing, and we did see this, I think, a little bit at the end of last season when Saka came back from injury. We saw him taking up much more central positions and coming in off the line quite a bit more. And I think we're seeing that in Martinelli as well. If you look back at the move where we win the penalty that is then overturned against Newcastle, like Saka's up front when that ball comes over the top. Like he's way away from the right wing. And, you know, we saw Martinelli take up those positions last night. I don't know if maybe the right-hand side has a bit more freedom to do that than the left.

14:44Arseblog: I'd have to look slightly closer at that. But then, like, when Trossard's been playing on the left, like at Newcastle, I could really see... I thought Lewis Ambrose's piece was actually brilliant on that Newcastle game, and it really showed why Trossard was selected to kind of come infield and almost act as another midfielder, rather than keeping the game out wide, which is, I think, certainly happened to us against Newcastle a few times last season, but maybe happened too often last season where everything was just going down the touchline. And it feels like players have got a bit more freedom, maybe, to come in off that line.

15:20Arseblog: But also, I think Jokeres is a big part of that because what I loved about his last two performances, you know, we've talked a lot about how we get him in on goal and how we get him goal-scoring opportunities, which is a very valid discussion. But I think what we're starting to find out is that he can draw defenders to him. That, you know, get the ball up to him and he's like a sponge. He'll absorb, you know, he'll absorb some physical punishment, but it will take two guys with him. So you can go and run off him. I think that's maybe a penny that started to drop with some of these players. It's a bit like, okay, we can post up to this guy.

15:58Arseblog: We can feed him, as it were, and then he's going to have two defenders all over his back, and that means there's one less defender on me type thing. And that's the thing that I think we're really beginning to work out with Jocarez up front. And one of the things I remember saying when Havertz got injured was that maybe the advantage here is that we learned to play with Jocarez much more quickly. Not to say that that was going to happen straight away, but now where he's had five six seven games back to back like the the speed with which the team understands this player is probably like this is probably we probably would have come to this stage maybe a month or two later if him and Havertz had been rotating which I still think would have been preferable but it's been like one of the advantages I think and I think what you're really beginning to see with the deployment of the wide players is you know Arteta's treating this squad like a toolbox um you know so it's like sometimes it's one area that comes on sometimes it's merino sometimes we want someone to play in off the line a little bit so it's trossard sometimes we really want to stretch so it's martinelli like it feels like arteta's team selections are very driven by attributes um actually which which is a really positive space to be in yeah i mean while we're

17:16Tim Stillman: talking about joker as i was gonna discuss him a little bit and i have to say in the last couple of games you know when we when we signed him and when we were talking about signing him all the discussion was that he's not a hold-up guy he's not a guy who plays with his back to goal he's a guy who you want to get running through on goal and i think obviously that is the preference right that is what you would like him to do more often than not but uh i've been quite, not surprised, but impressed a little bit by his holdup play in the Newcastle game. Listen, we know what they're about. They're a big, big physical team and they'll whack you.

17:55Tim Stillman: And if you're a centre forward and you've got two central defenders coming through your back, it's tough going, you know, because you're getting elbows and knees and all kinds. It's a tough gig. He did well at Newcastle, I think. And I think last night as well, there were moments where he did receive the ball either in the channels or with his back to goal slightly. There was one moment, I can't remember if it was first half or second half, where, I think it was second, where we played the ball down the left-hand side and he held it up in the box and then played this really smart little flick to Trossard, who tried to cross to Martinelli at the back post, overhit the cross.

18:33Tim Stillman: But that sort of subtlety in his game, I wasn't necessarily expecting. And there are elements to his game which are not at all subtle. Let's be clear about that. You know, like I said, there's a touch of bull in the china shop. But what I think I am taking from the last two games, the last two performances, is a player who understands his role maybe a little bit better. And the players around him, as you said, understand what he brings a little bit better. And we're starting to see relationships build. and obviously we'll bring this around to Martin Odegaard now in a minute, but we're starting to see connection between him and the rest of the team where perhaps in the opening weeks of the season, you were looking at him as this kind of, he was almost distinct.

19:24Tim Stillman: It's an Arsenal team with a striker, a real striker. How do they combine? And it's not to say we didn't in those opening games, But I think what you can see over the last two performances is that it looks a lot more natural than it did in some of the early weeks.

19:43Arseblog: Yeah, definitely. And there are a couple of reasons I liked this signing. And I've seen a lot of, again, really valid discussion about the player online, maybe some of his weaknesses. And, you know, is this, and I completely understood and maybe even felt myself a little bit of that kind of Lacazette anxiety, that kind of like this feels a bit like Lacazette as a signing who wasn't a terrible signing by any means but just wasn't quite that elite level striker and you could kind of see why he hadn't been taken out of Ligue 1 a little bit earlier but we just got to a stage where we had to buy somebody up front and it felt like that's what happened this summer we just got way past the stage where we could be very picky about it it's like we have to sign someone to play in this position and if they're not perfect we kind of have to eat that a little bit so there are definitely rough edges to his game and there was definitely risk in this signing but i i think it all comes down to what's going on around you and i think in this team we can we can absorb some rough edges because we don't really have them elsewhere i don't think i think we're technically like such a proficient kind of team full of you know ballers as it were and we bought a couple of others to go in the attack this summer so i kind of think we can use a battering ram who perhaps yeah like there were times last night you took on a shot when he should have passed there are times perhaps with his finishing where you think maybe you don't need to like belt the back of the ball and you can maybe finesse it into the corner but But we've got a lot of finesses.

21:23Arseblog: So I feel like we can absorb a bit of a battering ram who perhaps doesn't always have the perfect touch, perhaps shoots when he should pass. I feel like we almost need that. And you can see it in the profile of the attackers we signed this summer. We signed three attackers, and they all have that in very different ways. They have that directness about them. So you can see that Arteta has seen what we all saw last season, that we lacked that a little bit. We lacked a little bit of that directness. We lacked depth, definitely. And that we needed guys who can get through defences in other ways. He's definitely got a lot of rough edges.

22:05Arseblog: He's not perfect. I think if we'd signed him like five years ago, for example, maybe when we weren't as good a team, then maybe I think this is a signing that might not have worked but I feel like this is almost like a final jigsaw piece and I think when Havertz comes back by the way I think there'll be like a pretty firm rotation between those two players I think there are games Jokeres has played in the last few weeks that he wouldn't have started if we'd had Havertz as well like I do see those two as a bit of a combo in terms of again picking for attributes for certain games but I feel like we just needed that profile somewhere and I think we could swallow the fact that maybe you don't want to pay that much for a 27-year-old who's come from Portugal and doesn't have the perfect touch and all of that.

22:59Arseblog: Sure.

23:00Tim Stillman: I mean, I think you're absolutely right about Havertz because if Mikel Arteta is at this point prepared to rotate William Saliba and Gabriel for Christian Mosquera, there's no question that he will rotate and keep things fresh with Havertz and Jokeres, not least because they do different things and bring different qualities. And I think that's another aspect to the summer business. When you look at the profile of attackers and not just attackers, some of the defenders as well, there's a profile there that gives you different qualities for different game states or different opposition, whatever that might be.

23:34Tim Stillman: Again, really early days. But is there, can we connect the dots a little bit between Martin Odegaard's best performance in an Arsenal shirt for quite a while and the fact that we have a striker like Jokeres who is prepared to run the channels in a way. I'm not being critical of Havertz. He just plays the game a little bit differently. He's not the guy really who will run in behind, although I say that and I can remember that brilliant goal he scored against Chelsea doing exactly that. But, you know, the stylistic comparison, if you want to call it that, between him and Jokeres is quite different.

24:17Tim Stillman: It was a brilliant pass from Odegaard to put Jokeres through down that inside left channel. I've already talked about the one that led to the goal. It was a great pass from Odegaard there as well. But that sort of deep pass around the defender, maybe this is one of those where you're saying he took the shot when he could have actually squared it for Martinelli for a tap-in. But strikers, as we know, are greedy. And we've often bemoaned Arsenal attackers who get into positions and then cut back and try and find the perfect opportunity for somebody else. So that balance is an interesting thing. But I do think there's something to that combination.

24:56Tim Stillman: you know if you're a creative player like Odegaard if you've got the vision and if you've got the ability the quality to make those kinds of passes having a player like Jokeres who you know can come deep and hold the ball up but is also really really looking to get behind defenders and stretch the game um listen it's it's sort of one great game between the two of them but I feel like that is a combination that will really start to bear fruit for Arsenal if we can get them on the pitch together on a consistent basis.

25:26Arseblog: Yeah, absolutely. And again, that's the beauty of Jokeres as well. Like he can pull players away from Odegaard, you know, because you've got to follow that run and that gives everyone else a little bit more space. And I think one of the interesting things that we've been doing this season, maybe not so much last night, but it feels like we've gone a bit more kind of 4-2-3-1-y, if that makes sense. It's like kind of Rice and Zubamendi's taking on, in some games, like more of a double pivot feel. And it feels like we're playing with a slightly more defined 10 because I was watching Erdegaard last night and it didn't feel like, particularly because at the Emirates I sit at the side, I sit in the East stand.

26:11Arseblog: So particularly when we attack the North Bank, I see Erdegaard all the time because he's always on that touchline below me with Saka. whereas last night maybe like someone's got an average position map or something that totally proves me wrong it felt like he was everywhere basically it felt like it felt a bit more i mean i think erdegaard at his best is pretty undefinable as a position he's not really a 10 he's not really an eight he's not really a city like he's all of those things at the same time simultaneously somehow and and you do sometimes get like with erdegaard you always get the fundamentals you always get leading the press the work rate you know receiving the ball not giving it away like even last season when erdogan was way below his own personal standard he was very far from like a nightmare or anything because his his fundamentals are just always very good so you always get basically a six out of ten but every now and then you get a game from him where he's feeling himself a little bit.

27:14Arseblog: And I think last night was one of those games. And I think I just sense like maybe a determination in him because like, and it's too early to say like, he's going to have a brilliant season or whatnot. It's like, it's one game. But I was never really worried that last season's form would come into this season. I always felt like this is a serious guy, Erdegaard. Like, you can see why Arteta likes him, because I kind of think there may be peas in a pod in that respect. They're both very serious, professional kind of guys. And I always felt that he would know better than anyone that he didn't really do it last season and that he wouldn't talk, he wouldn't say anything, he'd just go away and kind of work on it.

27:58Arseblog: And I just sense a bit of a determination there from him. And I think he's been so missed in this early part of the season because he's such a unique player for us because he does both sides of the game brilliantly. And I feel like when he's not there, we end up with a kind of a binary choice between someone like Marino, who has his fundamentals, but not his creativity, or someone like maybe Nguaneri, or even Ezzer who has his creativity, but maybe not his fundamentals. And I think Havertz is very similar as well. And I kind of think missing both of them at the same time was a real problem for us, actually, in the early weeks of the season.

28:40Arseblog: But yeah, Erdegaard was exceptional last night. And he was exceptional when he came on at Newcastle. Even Eddie Howe said afterwards, like, he changed it, basically. And he really did.

28:53Tim Stillman: No, I completely agree. And I think there is, listen, football fans, and it's not to be critical, often have short memories. A player, and you mentioned Martinelli and Trossard, for example, players who were, if not being written off, certainly pushed to the fringes among sections of Arsenal fans, but over the start of this season have demonstrated their value and their worth to the squad. And I think Odegaard's another one who didn't have his best season by any means. But when you look at the numbers and you look at what the lack of consistency that the team suffered from, particularly in the Premier League in the, let's say, the last quarter of the season, I think it's very much linked to Odegaard's lack of consistency as well.

29:47Tim Stillman: making up for lost time you could say as well because he missed games and he missed games last season but also you could say rising to the challenge that there are other players who can play in his position now I think this time last year the choice was it was Wuneri or we fudge it a little bit with Marino but Marino was injured a little bit as well so now you've got Wuneri you've got Eze You've got Declan Rice who can play there. You've got Michael Marino who can play there. There are options. And I do think, you know, one of the aspects of this big squad is who are the players who are going to rise to the challenge, if you like?

30:32Tim Stillman: Who are the players who are really going to thrive on that competition and demonstrate, right, this is fucking my place. I want it. I think Odegaard is one of those. You know, it was always far too reductive to say because he had a bad season, this is the end of Martin Odegaard. Because based on what you've seen from him over the duration of his Arsenal career, a real case of form being temporary and class permanent, I think.

31:05Arseblog: Absolutely. And what you were talking about there, like players striving to keep their places, that works the other way as well. Like I think Martinelli has been brilliant the last couple of weeks and, and his attitude, it would have been very easy, I think for him to go, Oh my God, like signed Eza, signed Madueke, that maybe that tells me something. And maybe I don't really have a place here anymore or my role is going to be reduced. And, you know, he always talks well, Martinelli, like he's another one who could just comes across as a really, really good professional and lots of players. I remember Declan Rice when he first came to Arsenal saying like, oh, in training, Martinelli is the guy that works the hardest and he's the biggest kind of beast in training.

31:51Arseblog: But what we're seeing on the pitch, I think, backs up kind of what we heard from him in interviews, which is, okay, that's the situation. Fine, I'm going to try and contribute and I'm going to try and fight my way in. And I think that if you told a lot of Arsenal fans four or five weeks ago that Martinelli would be featuring this often. I think a lot of people would probably be quite surprised, even at Newcastle. He came on for Saka when we were losing with 20 minutes to go. That in itself is significant, but Arteta was willing to do that, like losing pretty much a must-win game 1-0 away from home.

32:27Arseblog: And he was comfortable taking Saka off, but that's also because he was comfortable putting Martinelli on. So I think that's going to be the case for a lot of players. I look at someone like Lewis Skelly as well, who's kind of, you know, he's played this game in Port Vale, obviously not playing as much as he did last season, but like he's 19, he's got a lot of time and perhaps he's competing with someone who's been injury prone as well. But even, and I wrote about, I've written about this for the column this week as well, that competition at right back between White and Timber, like Ben White has done literally nothing wrong.

33:03Arseblog: It's just, Juri and Timber's just been amazing and we can't take him out for the big games. It's like that's when you've got proper competition in a squad. Not when you're not dropping players. Ben White hasn't been dropped. Like he's done nothing wrong. It's just, I can't not select this guy. And I think we've got a lot of that going on around the pitch. It's the same at left back. It's like Myles Lewis Skelly has done nothing wrong. It's just Califuri has been so good in these first few weeks of the season. And it's just kind of like that all over the pitch. Even someone like Mikel Marino, who is a player maybe fans struggle to appreciate.

33:41Arseblog: He reminds me a bit of Mason Mount. I think he's like a coach's player, you know. But even him, like, I think he's had a – because there's been so much debate around him and maybe what he does and doesn't represent, which I completely understand. I still think he's played a really, really strong role in the first couple of weeks of the season. And again, I wasn't sure I could see that five or six weeks ago. but all of this to me is just so positive because everybody's involved and so like Declan Rice at Newcastle one of his best games for Arsenal ever like I don't even know where he was playing at some points like he was he was literally just everywhere and when we've been chasing goals in the last two league games Arteta's gone to three defenders and a big part of that is because Declan Rice will run back if they counter yeah yeah you think of that one uh was it Jacob Murphy

34:34Tim Stillman: that he blocked out. Yeah.

34:36Arseblog: But then, like, we didn't start him against Forrest. We didn't start him last night. So it's a bit like, you've done a game and a half's worth of running at Newcastle. We've got the players to sit you down. But for me,

34:47Tim Stillman: that's part of the value of Mikel Moreno. That I get, like, why people are not excited by him or enthused by him in, you know, in sort of creative terms or whatever. But he showed his value at Newcastle with a great goal. Nobody made more chances against Olympiacos last night, apart from Martin Odegaard, than Mikel Marino. And what Mikel Marino allows you to do is sit Declan Rice down. So you don't have to play him game after game after game after game. And that for me is the value. And when you're winning games, it's just sort of like, okay, that's fine. It's when you, let's say, lose a game with Mikel Marino and the team that sort of changes the direction of that discussion, which I think is a little bit binary.

35:28Tim Stillman: But for me, I can see the value in a player like that. And look, when you look at the squad and the contribution so far over the course of this season, the two players with the most goals and assists between them are Martinelli and Trossard. Four goal contributions. Jokeres has three. Eza has three. I think Calafiore has three. You know, this is what you build a squad for. Nights like last night and games like Bilbao are what you build this squad for. You want all of these players. They're not just like safety nets. They're, as you say, tools in the toolbox that you can use to elicit results and performances.

36:08Tim Stillman: And which in turn, let's say, when you go into a game this weekend against West Ham, means that you put Rice out and you can play him from the start. And Odegaard's played himself into the first team. And Trossard had a game, so he doesn't mind sitting down because Eze is going to play on the left. All of those things, I think, are really interesting. Saka, another one, for example, who only played a little bit last night. Let me circle it back around to the game because it looked like it would be routine for Arsenal. Having scored early, we were on top. But Champions League football is quite tricky.

36:43Tim Stillman: Ask Manchester City about last night, for example.

36:49Tim Stillman: Olympiacos, I think, I don't know if we underestimated them or didn't give them enough credit, to be honest. They caused us some problems. I think the delivery from their right back, by the way, Costinha, the consistency of the delivery he put in the box last night made me fucking, I don't know anything about him really, but I'd be like, if I was a scout, I'd be going, that guy's got something. One of those deliveries resulted in a chance for Daniel Podence, which David Raya saved. And at the time I looked at it and said, that's a fucking great save. and then I saw the replays and I saw other replays and it was even better every time you watched it it was better so these are the fine margins of Champions League games you've got to stay on top of the opposition you've got to take your chances if you don't take your chances you've got to be prepared to defend well and if you can't defend if you've got a goalkeeper as good as David Raya is then you give yourself a great chance to keep clean sheets and keep the opposition at bay you know the we can talk about ryan a sec if you like but but what olympiacos did in the first half was cause us a few problems and then in the second half they pressed much higher we found it much more difficult to play through the lines our tether made changes and actually i think one of the the best moments we had in that second half was a trossard chance but it came from declan rice if you remember, like holding off about three players and then playing the most sort of pinpoint pass to Odegaard in midfield who brought it forward.

38:31Tim Stillman: Trossard had the chance. Keeper actually made a really good save. But that's how difficult it was for us to cause them problems in that second half. So I think they do deserve quite a bit of credit for making life that tough for us.

38:44Arseblog: Yeah, definitely. And like when you play in the Champions League as well, you're playing teams who are used to dominating teams. So Olympiakos, you know, win the Greek league every single year. I think they're top at the moment. Like they're used to dominating games. So they know how to attack and they have like, so yes, they will have a right back. It's probably quite attacking because that's what they need. Like 95 % of the time. Sure. And, and, you know, you look at kind of without sounding disparaging, like clubs like this in the champions league, one of them always ends up with like a 50, 60, 70 million.

39:19Arseblog: player that ends up somewhere like they they've they've all got at least one or two players you know um and and actually it's it's it's quite interesting i watched the galatasaray liverpool game uh on tuesday night and it's actually one of the things i really enjoy about like watching a turkish team is the like because obviously i don't watch turkish football but you watch a champions league game with a turkish team and it's like oh i forgot about him yeah yeah it's like it's like lucas torreira and davidson sanchez and it's like oh it's like a 2018 premier league kind of fantasy team or something and and and you get a like so i saw like daniel podent last night and i was like oh that's the guy that played for wolves like i forgot about him yeah so so you get like a little collection of those players but then you'll get a player you know like costinha for example where it's like oh actually he looks like he looks like a player and like it feels like he might go somewhere in the premier league next season i know that's like that's a very premier league centric way of looking at it but that that is just the reality of the economics of football in 2025 so all of these players will have players that can play they will have goal scorers that know where the net is you know look we bought one right we played one last night who played for sporting Lisbon last season so you do you know even if you play within yourself a little bit like they'll they'll know they'll know where the goal is and you know they'll or they'll have someone who can whack one in from 30 yards given the chance and actually our record at home to Olympiacos not very good before this game I think we've lost the last two times we played them at the Emirates so and and like the save from raya i mean i feel like he does this a lot was it the leeds game did he make a really good save either nil nil or one nil yeah yeah yeah which like i can't even remember it now because like he made the save and we went and won like five nil so it's fine like but i feel like if you stop and think about it that happens quite a lot and one of those qualities I think that really marks out top goalkeepers is that kind of, I might only have one save to make, but it's going to have to be a worldie.

41:30Arseblog: And the save Ryan made, I mean, it was down, I say down my end, I'm slightly more towards the north end. And that was like, I tried to watch it back, but I couldn't find the angle properly because it feels like Ryan must've started diving before the connection with the ball. because I just can't get over how quick his reflexes were. Not just the athleticism to do it, but the anticipation. I feel like he must have started diving before the guy even hit the ball because I don't understand how else he'd have got there. I think with Raya, obviously there's a lot of focus on his distribution and things like that, which I think is absolutely right.

42:11Arseblog: And it was amazing last night, by the way.

42:15Tim Stillman: His passing was superb.

42:17Arseblog: herb yeah absolutely and i and i think it's the variety of his distribution as well and again lewis wrote about this in his piece about the newcastle game about how he didn't hit any medium passes because like obviously arsenal had a plan like don't put the ball in their midfield because it's you know it's like a chipper in there basically like your ankles will get hacked off so all of his passes were either very short or very long and and that's just like the versatility he gives you in distribution as well in that he can do both things very very well and obviously a big part of why we signed him is him how he takes crosses and things like that but it feels like every few games he makes a world-class save or double save or something and often it's the only thing he really has to do in terms of making saves to be fair he's very involved and maybe that helps the fact that he's almost like another midfielder sometimes or another center back and he gets a lot of touches maybe that kind of helps sure in keeping his focus shot but i think um i kind of think it's almost like a good thing and a bad thing like we don't talk about him and i feel like we should but i also feel like you know cliche alert a good goalkeeper is like a good referee like you kind of they should just be there yeah you shouldn't have to talk about them and because you're just like it's not a discussion point you know yeah no i know what you mean um

43:46Tim Stillman: I wish we'd have some referees that we didn't see and talk about, but that's a pipe dream, really. It was the Forest game, I think, when he made that good save. It was Chris Wood who chested the ball over him, and he made a fingertip save for that one. But yeah, I mean, he's absolutely fantastic. And second half, he made a very good save as well. The speed of his reflexes are amazing. The game was tight, and when it's 1-0, you're never quite sure how it's going to pan out. And as you say, we've had some tricky moments and some tricky late moments, people will remember, against Olympiacos in previous European games, all being in the Europa League a few seasons ago.

44:30Tim Stillman: And they did put two strikers on, and we did lose Gabriel, which again, in previous seasons, when you see Gabriel go off, you start to worry a lot. But credit to Christian Mosquera, he came on and did a job. He was asked to come on and defend, and he did that. He wasn't really on the ball, but he got involved defensively. And then we make the game safe very late. I think your point about Martinelli drifting into positions that you don't normally see our right winger in is certainly evident here as well, because Bakayo Saka's in the sort of inside left channel. I think he took a shot, it rebounded out, Odegaard plays a pass, and the finish may be a bit unlucky, a bit unfortunate for a goalkeeper who had been very, very good.

45:16Tim Stillman: But Saka, a great example of, you know, if you don't buy a ticket, you don't win the lottery, pull the trigger. How many times have we talked about that in the past about Arsenal players and the need to, you know, at least just try. You just never know what might happen rather than looking for that sort of Goldilocks opportunity in front of goal where everything is just right. Here's a great stat from Orbinio. Bukayo Saka has 17 goal involvements in just 19 Champions League appearances for Arsenal, 11 goals and six assists. And I'm pretty sure I saw a stat somewhere that said only three players have more European goals for Arsenal than Bakao Saka, which is insane.

45:56Arseblog: Has he surpassed Robert Perez or something? Yeah, I think so, yeah. I read this morning. And that's incredible. And again, we don't really talk about it. It's just like so normal for Saka to score, even when he only gets a few minutes.

46:09Tim Stillman: And he's sorry, just level from James Bench on Blue Sky. He's level with Robert Perez for Champions League goals. It took Perez 63 games. And this is his 19th game for Arsenal. So I mean, it's good company. When you say we don't talk about it, I'm not saying any of us take Bukayo Saka for granted because, you know, how can you? But at the same time, the level of output that he has had over the course of his Arsenal career, albeit with a couple of fallow little spells because of the injury last season, etc., etc., it is remarkable, isn't it?

46:47Arseblog: It really is. And it's like, it's almost like remarkably unremarkable, basically. Like, it's the same deal. like just talking about with Raya, like we just expect it. And again, I wrote about this a couple of years ago, I think. There is something about Saka that just kind of washes over you. Like he's such a, he's such a like, I don't want to say functional player, but like there's no real bows or whistles. Do you know what I mean? Like there aren't like step overs or he doesn't bash people about, like everything's just like efficient and smooth. and you almost don't notice it basically because what he's doing is not like doesn't look like really big physical it's almost like that you know the analogy of the swan right just like gliding across the lake you look under their legs their legs are going like the clappers and that's that's what Saka's like he's like a swan it's just it looks so easy that we take it for granted but I think the other thing that was really interesting about the goal though and um again where I sit I I can see Arteta a lot because kind of directly opposite where I sit.

47:58Arseblog: And he's often waving his arms about and stuff. So often like catches my eye, but he swapped Saka and Eza very, very quickly after they came on. And again, he was frantically like kind of, you know, waving his arms about to swap them over for the last few minutes or so. It would actually be really interesting to understand why he did that. I mean, like it worked and, you know, Saka scores from the left basically. But I think that's something to keep an eye on, potentially, because we, again, we never saw that before, really. We never saw like, it was always like, Saka is on the right, is on the right, is on the right.

48:33Tim Stillman: Yeah.

48:34Arseblog: And as well as it looking like he has a bit more freedom to drift, you know, with 10 minutes to go against Olympiacos, they decided that Arteta decided to swap Jimenez over. And I think that's quite an interesting development. Maybe it's something that only happens in this game. maybe they just saw something in, you know, the Olympiacos right back or whatever, but it's something to put a pin in. And I mean, the idea of Saka on the left wing for me, fine with me, fine, I'd be fine with him as a number 10. Like he's just, he's such an incredible player. And like, he is like the franchise player, you know, like he is, I think the player more than anyone else that all our hopes and dreams are pinned on.

49:18Arseblog: and I await that contract signing an announcement with great relish.

49:23Tim Stillman: Yes, me too, me too. I mean, I've got recollections of Saka scoring goals from that position before going across the goalkeeper. So it's not uncommon for him. And obviously he played left back in the past and he has played on the left in the past as well. But again, if we're talking about variety, if we're talking about unpredictability, putting players in positions where the opposition don't expect them to be is certainly part of that. So maybe it is something that we'll see over the course of the weekend, I was going to say, maybe the weekend, but hopefully over the course of the season. So look, I think overall, professional, solid, 2-0, three points, clean sheet, and in this sort of elongated Champions League format, that is just kind of job done territory, isn't it?

50:11Arseblog: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think as well, like we know in terms of the Champions League that there are harder tests to come and probably like a more difficult test behind us as well with the game at Athletic. I think it was really important to start with those kind of six points. A bit like last year when, you know, we had those kind of early games and we knew Inter away was coming. I think we started Atalanta away last year, probably very similar to Athletic. Then PSG at home kind of took them apart. But we knew there was Sporting away, there was Inter away. I think it's similar this time.

50:50We know that there's games where we could drop a couple of points.

50:55Arseblog: We might lose one of them. And I think a lot of elite clubs will be getting to grips with what's needed in the league phase. I think it was a real unknown last year. And maybe now they know a little bit more, even just when it comes to like the extra games in January. And, you know, we've got that last one, that last home game, which if you've never been to the Emirates and you've never been able to get a ticket, you and 10 friends will get a ticket for that one. Yeah, put the date in your diary for Kairat Almaty. Yeah, like that, you know, that's, I mean, I hope that has a real Europa League feel because we're through and we've done what we need to do.

51:37Arseblog: But you kind of, with all due respect, stick a pin in that one and kind of say, even if we need points, you know, we ought to be able to do that. So I think there's a real kind of rhythm emerging with these games. I even think someone made a point in Jest that I saw online, maybe on Twitter, where like Galatasaray had put up like, you know, the English language accounts of a lot of these European clubs are very like banterific and all of that. You know, they'd had a pop at Liverpool and someone kind of made the point that there's this weird dynamic in the Champions League now where you don't play those teams twice.

52:16Arseblog: So someone like Galatasaray can have a bit of a laugh at Liverpool because they're not going to play them again.

52:22Tim Stillman: Well, until potentially later in the competition when that shit might come back

52:27Arseblog: to bite you in the arse, you know? Well, absolutely. But yeah, like even just having that kind of, oh, we don't play these again. Like, so we move on to completely different opponents. Yeah, I think there is like a real kind of rhythm emerging around some of these games. And last night I think was really useful for us as well in terms of maybe switching our mindset to a different phase of the season where we should be looking to pick up points. And again, just like routine, some routine home wins that are quite forgettable. Like we've kind of got to get into that mindset now after a really difficult start.

53:03Tim Stillman: Yeah. I mean, the next Champions League game is Atletico Madrid at home. Tough fucking game. Look at what they did to Real Madrid at the weekend. So yeah, it does make this group stage quite interesting. but you know the sort of tough games like Atletico, Bayern Munich at home, Inter away, sandwiched between games where on paper you expect Arsenal to go and win and do well. So we'll see how it plays out. A couple of quick things to sort of just get us out of here. You mentioned the contract for Bakayo Saka which we all hope is close to completion. I don't know that it is exactly yet but hopefully there are no complications in that regard.

53:45Tim Stillman: But we did officially get the announcement of William Saliba this week, putting pen to paper on a new deal. Spoke really well, I think, about what he wants to achieve at this football club and that he never considered the idea of leaving because he hasn't won anything here yet. and I do think that's really interesting and I made this point maybe on last week's pod and certainly in the blog about how when a player like Saliba is committing the best years of his career to your club then that tells you what kind of shape your club is in and what kind of shape your team is in and what these big, important, world-class players think about their chances of winning things but I've completely forgotten the point and the question that I was going to ask.

54:32Tim Stillman: So I don't know what's going on there in my mind. This is like forgetting Shakhtar.

54:36Arseblog: Let's just talk about William Saliba signing contract good.

54:39Tim Stillman: Yeah, it is good. There was a wider point I was going to make, but fuck it. It is just great news, isn't it, for Arsenal? And I think what I was going to say was, you know, we've lived through eras where our best players, we were always worried about them going somewhere else because I think we could always see that however much it might hurt, there was probably a footballing justification for these really good players to say, you know what, if I want to win trophies, I got to go somewhere else. And that's a painful thing to come to terms with. And maybe the player gets the brunt of that because you're sort of shooting the messenger, as it were.

55:25Tim Stillman: but now Gabriel Saliba signing on the young players, hopefully Saka to come. That's a change and a really, really positive change.

55:37Arseblog: Absolutely. And look, part of it's down to economics as well of the Premier League, like the days of Real Madrid and Barca being able to buy your players. It's not that easy anymore. Real Madrid, they're doing free transfers now. Like, I don't worry about a bid from them for Saliba because I'm not sure they could get to the number that would make us even remotely consider it. The fear there was, is he going to run down his contract and are they going to get him on a free? Like Barca can't buy him. So some of that external threat is gone. And so there is the question of where do you go? Like, where would you go to guarantee trophies?

56:14Arseblog: Like maybe Man City, but like we're competing with them. Bayern or PSG, I guess.

56:20Tim Stillman: But those are empty trophies anyway, aren't they really?

56:23Arseblog: Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, okay, you can go and win. And maybe someone like William Saliba might like to win Ligue 1 at some point, but it kind of feels like he could very much do that later in his career if he wanted to. But so there is kind of that question of, well, where would you go? That's like more of a certainty than Arsenal. I'm not saying we're a certainty because we've not really done it yet, but there aren't many greater certainties. But I think also what it kind of shows is for all the external noise around Arsenal, some of which is very tiring and frankly and quite difficult to deal with, these young guys who aren't online 24-7 and surprise, surprise, actually the way you communicate with some of these guys and the way you get their buy-in is probably not the same way that you get buy-in from people.

57:20Arseblog: you spend all day on the internet. You know, say that again. It shows you as well that for all the external noise, it shows you what the internal perception is. Yeah. And actually, I think it's a great credit to the manager who has nearly been here six years now. It's a long time he's been in charge, but his message is still getting through and it's still resonating. And Saliba's been here longer than most of the team as well. so if like guys like him and Saka who basically you know Anu Saliba went out on loan and stuff like that but have been there longer than most of of the team are still brought in are still you know on board with his message sure I think that says a lot about Arteta not just as a coach but as a communicator and again for the external noise around it it shows you the people who spend the most time with him and under him are trusting him with their careers yeah absolutely

58:17Tim Stillman: I think academy players aside, Saliba and Martinelli are the two longest serving players at the club right now. They both arrived in the summer of 2019, didn't they? So, yeah. Yeah. So there you go. Well, one final thing, and this is a quick point I want to make, and I'm sort of happy to make it in the context of Arsenal winning at Newcastle and refereeing and refereeing decisions. not being sort of used, not used, but like if you talk about refereeing decisions, people will say, well, you're making excuses. You've got to go and win the games. That's what champions do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

58:56Tim Stillman: But, you know, that shit is out of your hands. And it was out of our hands on Sunday against Newcastle. My firm opinion is that Arsenal should have had a penalty. I don't believe the justifications for not giving the penalty from PGMOL and Howard Webb stand up, particularly when you see some of the explanations and videos during the rounds of Howard Webb explaining different decisions, which seem to like directly contradict the sort of process, if you like, of the decision-making that we saw at St. James's Park on Sunday. And I think another thing to say is that when we discuss refereeing and refereeing standards, we ought not as much as possible to apply them only to Arsenal.

59:43Tim Stillman: So when we see bad refereeing in other games, as much as it might amuse us to see Manchester United get a penalty but not see the opposition player sent off for a very obvious denial of a goal-scoring opportunity, we can laugh at that at the time. But we have to say that is really bad refereeing. It's terrible for the game that decisions like that take place, For example, when a Chelsea player kicks a Brighton player in the head, in the box, and they somehow don't give a penalty, we have to say that's also bad refereeing and bad decision making. But the sort of wider point I want to make is that if rules and actual rules are being applied on a consistent basis, you could look at the Victor Jokeres incident on Sunday and say, well, I might think it's a penalty.

1:00:36Tim Stillman: But based on this and based on this and based on the actual rules of the game, I can see why that was not a penalty. but when the rules appear to be different from one season to the next from one game to the next or the the rationale in the mind of officials and the head of the official uh the pgmol like yeah you have to ask questions about that because rules are they're either rules or they're not rules or they're vibes so what how is that how are games being officiated and decided on

1:01:11Arseblog: Yeah, it's take this kind of back to the beginning of Howard Webb kind of taking the role at PGMOL. And I understand I never shared this view, but there was a big view that under Mike Riley, there was no communication from PGMOL. It felt very ivory tower and all of that. But personally, I didn't. I mean, it was like that. But I think personally, I think that nobody actually wants to hear from referees. So I think Howard Webb has clearly come in thinking, okay, I'm going to change that I'm going to be more public facing, we're going to communicate about this stuff and all of that. However, what I think it's veered into very quickly is, you know, that TV show he does with Michael Owen.

1:02:02Arseblog: Not exactly Jeremy Paxman there, is it?

1:02:07Arseblog: If you just reattune your head to the idea that the point of that show is that Howard Webb is on TV, then you kind of start to feel maybe not better about things, but that's why it exists. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, that's why it exists. So I'm of the opinion that even if it was erudite, educational, that there was a genuine move to say, actually, I can see why people disagree with this, but from a referee's point of view, maybe he was thinking this and all of that. And I think there could be a use for that. But largely, I think fans don't want to hear it. And I think that's kind of on us as well.

1:02:45Arseblog: We're a bit intransigent. So if we think we've been screwed by a ref, and even if the head of PJM world does come up with an erudite explanation, which he hasn't in this scenario and very seldom does, but I just kind of think we don't want to hear it. It's just like we had a penalty, you took it away from us, go away. That's our kind of point of view. And I think we're difficult to communicate with anyway. However, what this kind of this communication has turned into and i think it's very very clear from most of howard webb's kind of innovations they're about centering referees they're about centering himself he clearly doesn't see officiating as a support structure an incredibly valuable one like you don't get a game without a referee um but he doesn't see it as a support structure he sees it as central to the drama to the narrative to the plot and i think he's hanging referees out to dry a little bit like Like, thankfully, we haven't seen it at all.

1:03:45Arseblog: But, like, even that kind of thing they were going to bring in this season where they were going to do, like, time, how long goalkeepers hold on to the ball for. And there was supposed to be something like a hand signal from the referee, like, imitating a clock. It's like, who wants that? And least of all, which referees want to be doing that? Because you'd look stupid, which is probably why it hasn't happened. but also it's just like what's already a very difficult job he seems to be piling more and more on them and it's like right now now you've got a really crackdown on time wasting you've got crackdown on this you've got crackdown on that on stuff that I actually don't think that many people really care about like even when Arsenal are on quote-unquote the wrong end of it when the opposition goalkeeper catches a cross or something in the last minute and we need a goal I don't really care that they hold on to the ball like i kind of check out at that moment it's like oh goalkeeper's got the ball this is probably going to take 25 seconds like i kind of accept it so i don't really understand because we do it yeah exactly i want my i want david ry to do it and he does um but it's like i i kind of accept that as part of the game and it's like so what where's this crackdown coming from who's asking for this and and the kind of occam's razor conclusion is just that Howard Webb is a bit of an egomaniac and he wants to be on TV.

1:05:08Arseblog: He wants to be a very central character in this Premier League drama. And I kind of think he's putting that on referees as well. And I don't know how much the referees themselves actually want or appreciate that.

1:05:18Tim Stillman: Yeah, I was going to ask, well, I was going to say, you know, I think the idea of referees announcing their VAR decisions over the PA in a stadium is clearly part of that. Yeah. How many referees want to stand there and the whole place goes silent and then you have to wait for your mic to come on and go, well, after the review, I am no foul. And everyone's like, you fucking fucker. Fucking fuck you. Anyway, listen, there are issues and there have been issues. We're not going to solve them now and we don't have time to solve them anyway. So we better leave it there for now. Tim, as ever, a pleasure to talk to you.

1:05:54Tim Stillman: Thank you very much indeed. My pleasure as always.

1:06:00Tim Stillman: Thank you very much indeed to Tim. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at, what is he at? Tim-Stillman.bsky.social Tim-Stillman.bsky.social Of course, he's part of the Arsenal Vision podcast crew. You can find his new column on arseblog.com a little later on today, Thursday. Maybe it's even out by the time you're listening to this. And of course, Tim and the team bring you the best coverage of Arsenal women that you will find anywhere over on Arseblog News. Right. That is just about that for today's show. Thank you so much, as always, for listening. We will look ahead to the West Ham game in a bit more detail tomorrow over on Patreon.

1:06:40Tim Stillman: Quite an interesting game to preview this one, given the last couple of results at home against West Ham and some of the things that we have to improve on in this season ahead. So myself and Lewis will talk about that and much more over on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash Arseblog. It is just$6 a month to get access to all of the content that we do over there, as well as supporting everything that we put out on Arseblog and Arseblog News. Don't forget the Arseblog apps for iOS and for Android have recently been updated. So if you want to get on board with those, go to the appropriate app store.

1:07:14Tim Stillman: I was going to say convenience store. That is not where you get apps. Maybe they could sell a few more if you were going in for like a newspaper, a Snickers and an Arseblog app. Anyway, there's an idea for somebody. You can have it. I don't need it. Anyway, patreon.com forward slash arseblog for all of that. For now, take it easy, folks. Thank you so much, as always, for listening. And we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:07:59Thank you.

1:08:51Tim Stillman: Welcome back to Talk Shite. radio talking shite about sport 24 hours a day. This week it emerged that Mikel Arteta's unconventional training ground methods had included a visit from the RAF in order to improve communication amongst his players. It's not the first time Arteta has tried something new. You remember the story about pickpockets. But do these methods actually work on players? Jamie O 'Hara, veteran of six Premier League games with Spurs or thereabouts, What's your take? Well, it's just really stupid, isn't it? Because, like, what does a fighter pilot know about the offside rule? To be fair, Arteta said this was about improving communication on the pitch.

1:09:36Tim Stillman: Yeah, but it's just really stupid, isn't it? Because what does a guy from the RAF know about the offside rule? But split-second communication on the pitch could be the difference between creating a goal or not letting a goal in. So do you see any benefit to this at all? Well, I've thought about this a lot, you know, and I just think it's really stupid, because what does a guy who flies planes know about the offside rule? I'll be honest, I think we could do with some improved communication around here. Maybe we need to get somebody in to talk to you. Like a fighter pilot? I was thinking more of a remedial teacher, but we'll take whatever we can get at this point.

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