Episode 857 - Noni and two Gabis

0:23Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. It is a post-match pod today. We got back to winning ways after defeat to Aston Villa at the weekend with a 3-0 win over Club Bruges last night, making it 6-6 in the Champions League. 100 % record in Europe so far this season, and long may that continue. And it was a team which, while familiar in some places, was certainly a bit unfamiliar in others. Nevertheless, moments of brilliance from Nani Madweke or Nani Madwaki, as Martin Keown kept calling him on the TV last night.

1:05And also Gabrielle Martinelli helped fire us to a 3-0 win. So we're going to get into all of that in today's show. A couple of things just before we start, though. It is getting close to Christmas and maybe you're lacking the inspiration. You don't know what to get the Arsenal fan in your life. Well, we have you covered. or if you're an Arsenal fan and you want to suggest to somebody that they get you a particular gift, we've got you covered there as well. Every week over on Patreon, Andrew Allen puts together a really interesting newsletter, which is Arsenal content and football content links and videos and stuff like that.

1:41This week, however, there is a bonus edition listing dozens and dozens of Arsenal-related gift ideas from official stuff to bootleg stuff to loads of independent creators and creatives. And we have made that free to everybody. And you can find the link to that in the show notes now. So if you're looking desperately for something for Christmas, hopefully you can find something there. And hopefully as well, it helps support a lot of these independent artists and creators whose work we should be supporting in this day and age because it's valuable and it's important. And it's not just made by somebody typing in a prompt to some kind of AI bullshit that churns out an image that looks crap and is crap and has no inherent value whatsoever.

2:29So there you go. You'll find that, as I said, in the show notes and hopefully something that tickles your fancy or the fancy of somebody who might be buying you a gift for Christmas. On top of that, if you were impressed by the TIFO at the North London Derby, we gave a shout out after that on the Arsecast Extra to Dan Evans, who was a big part of that. But Dan, along with his mate Josh, you might remember, designed a very, very cool Bakaio Saka t-shirt a couple of years ago. We actually gave away a couple here on the podcast. Well, Dan and Josh are at it again. This time it is an Eberachi Eza Dragon Ball mashup t-shirt being sold through a store like 94.

3:10And later on in this particular episode, we will give you a chance to win one of those t-shirts. There's also a discount code if you want to just buy one. So stand by for that. That's all to come a little bit later on. Now, though, let's talk about the football and what was a very positive night for Arsenal, a 3-0 win over Club Bruges. Lots to get into, lots to unpack. And it is my pleasure to welcome back to the Arscast from CBS Sports. It's James Benj. James, good morning to you. Hi, Andrew. How you doing? I'm doing very well. You know, glad to get back to winning ways after the disappointment of Aston Villa last weekend.

3:44And, you know, Arsenal lost to Liverpool earlier in the season, went on an 18-game unbeaten run. Hopefully this is the first of at least 18 again last night in the Champions League. And a slightly familiar yet unfamiliar team for this one, which is, you know, a solid enough looking midfield. But in defence, you have Christian Norgard at centre-half, Myles Lewis-Skelly comes in, all change in the front three as well. So people were really looking for Mikel Arteta to rotate. for this one to really, really use his squad. Some of it was necessity. And I think some of them, some of the decisions he made were, you know, interesting to get some minutes into some legs who I think are going to be very useful over the coming weeks and months.

4:29Yeah, I mean, we can sort of assess his performance. I'm sure we will as we go, but I was really like positively impressed and surprised. I didn't see Norgard at centre-back coming at all. And that was the one where I was like, I see the logic here. you know I can't imagine it's much more than a break glass in case of emergency option but this was sort of something like an emergency and you know when you just sort of see you think of a player profile and you think yeah that will do what I need at centre back I've always kind of my worry about Norgaard has been sort of his ability to dictate tempo from a from a DM position well, I'm not so worried if he can't dictate the play Saliba style as the fifth, sixth choice centre-back.

5:15That's fine. I really like that. I liked, you know, I think it's pretty clear that like, well, it's very hard to know on Uri and Timber, isn't it? Exactly what Mikel Arteta, it's always hard to know what Mikel Arteta means when he talks about injury. The sense I have of sort of, this was much more of a, let's just kind of keep him out of the firing line was encouraging. I think Arteta sometimes gets in his head the idea that he has players that can just play and play and play. And it's certainly true that some players suit that way of management more than others, but it was nice to get him out of the team.

5:52Impressed to also just have the confidence to hold Saka back. To, you know, maybe say to Ebereche, if you're going to perform like that, you might need to have a sort of, you probably can't start the next game.

6:07when the end result of that as well is that basically Arsenal are all but guaranteed top eight it's going to be really hard now to not get top two as well that to me is is a great a very very good day yeah I mean listen you talk about holding Saka back and I get that but isn't this the exact sort of scenario that you bring in a player like Nani Maduweke for where this is a Look, on paper, a game Arsenal should win first against, it's weird to say it, first against 27th in the table, you know. It's a 36-team table, but Club Rouge are in 27th. So a fair gap between them. But beyond even, right, he's been out injured, we're bringing him back, we want to get minutes into his legs.

6:53this sort of, for want of a better phrase, a timeshare environment within the Arsenal squad as and when we have more players fit. I think that would become more apparent, but, you know, we've been a little hamstrung in that sense. But this, to me, is exactly the sort of fixture where you say to Bakayo Saka, listen, you know, we'll bring you back in for the weekend. It is Wolves, top against bottom in the Premier League, but this is the kind of game where we want you to score some goals and maybe get a couple of assists. So tonight is the night for Nani Maduweke to go out and show us what he can do.

7:26And to be fair to him, he absolutely did that. He really did. But I mean, I think my worry with sort of Mikel Arteta in past seasons in terms of rotation has been that I don't think he likes sort of leaving a job half done. But I think maybe the Mikel Arteta of last year and the year before, who admittedly didn't have the same depth of quality players, would have kind of looked at a game like this one and said, oh, you know, if we don't win this, we're kind of being dragged into the chasing pack. We're going to have to work harder against Inter then in January. We're going to have to work harder against Kyra.

8:04You know what? I know I maybe shouldn't, but I'm just going to give Bakaio Saka an hour here. Hopefully we'll win the game and he'll come off and we know what would happen. in one of those games. Give him an hour. Don't say it. Don't say it. And so, I mean, I don't know how much Mikel Arteta of 24, 25, 23, 24 would have done this if he'd had a player like Nani Madueke on the bench. But I'm really encouraged that he does it. And I, boy, did Nani Madueke vindicate that decision. I was, from day one of the links. If I was spraying graffiti, it would have been like, give Maduweke a 10-year deal. I was very high on Nani Maduweke.

8:52And I will keep saying that because I feel very vindicated about the whole thing. Well, it was an amazing goal to put us ahead. I think, you know, what we saw here was decisiveness. We saw strength. We saw dribbling ability. We saw a player unafraid to produce as Arteta. spoke about afterwards, a sort of moment of individual brilliance, the sort of goals that we don't maybe score enough of, like the Martinelli one as well, which is not necessarily a goal you associate with him in a big way. And we'll circle back around to that. But I think he started talking about this stuff, if you remember, after the Bayern game, where we lost 1-0 away from home after that first leg.

9:39and he talked about maybe just lacking those individual moments, the guy who can unlock a game with a dribble, with a pass, with a finish, you know, something special. And that was certainly a very special goal from Nani Marueke. Not only did he do all the hard stuff of taking the ball, beating the man, getting to the edge of the box or just outside the box, unleashing the shot, the fact that it went in off the underside of the crossbar makes the goal officially 25 % better than it would have been if it had just gone top corner. Oh, I mean, what it needs to do then, I think, is bounce back onto one of the posts.

10:15And that is just simple aesthetic. But that is, you know, that's hang it in the Louvre stuff there. In fact, that's hang it in the Louvre, and it gets stolen from the Louvre, and they return whatever it was they took last time. Can we swap this for Nani Madaweko's first goal? Keep your fucking Mona Lisa. We want this. um i i one of the things that that i think this is generally true of like arsenal's recruitment throughout the summer ever actually as it is it does similar things but these are players that that take shots that get into dangerous areas and sometimes they get into dangerous areas in a way that for a team like arsenal that like to have their their rest defense set that like to make sure that if there is a turnover in the attacking third they're snuffing it out to an extent madame AK shouldn't be a player that fits with that.

11:05But that's kind of why you need him. That's what the value of him is, is that he's someone that will be falling over and go, well, I'll still dribble at these two club bridge defenders. And that we'll take a swing where, you know, not just Erdegaard, but Saka, maybe even players like Kai Havertz just wouldn't really do that. They wouldn't have a go. He takes so many shots. I think that was true of his Chelsea career as well. And I know this isn't the Chelsea cast, but I was watching their game last night, the night before, and I was really struck by Chelsea need a guy like Madueke, someone that will run at defenders and beat them and get the ball into the penalty area.

11:44And their crosses might be a bit inconsistent and as players, they might be inconsistent. But that almost is the challenge for defenders is it's a lot harder to know what they're going to do. And sometimes it's someone like João Pedro who just drops off and cycles possession around. And I think that sort of gambling instinct is something that Arsenal have really added to the squad with Maduike, Eza, and I suppose we're attempting to add with Jokeres. I'm not sure we'll come on to. It's interesting, isn't it? Because you would sort of put that at odds with the way Mikel Arteta's brain works. like Arteta's brain feels strategic minimize risk at all times but I think maybe he's not opened up to the idea but you know he's been here for six years now and has learned that there are ways and there are things and there are things that you can't control when they go against you so maybe as as a manager you kind of have to embrace some of that not lack of control but but the ability to inflict those moments onto other teams like where you say well there are things we can control like if a guy beats a couple of men and smashes it in the top corner from 30 yards what can you do about that really you know apart from make a foul maybe you know but you're you're still not legislating for that player to sort of smack it top corner but now you have that a bit more You have that, as you said with Esa, you have it with Matuweke.

13:17I think we have it with Bakayo Saki, even though we haven't seen it a great deal. We saw it a bit from Martinelli. One of the things that I think has been quite interesting about Martin Odegaard in the last couple of games is the shooting. I don't know if it's like a team edict or if he's saying, well, look, these guys are doing it. I've got to do it too. Almost the first thing that Arsenal did in the game last night was an Odegaard shot from just outside the box, which the keeper pushed away. He had some attempts against Villa at the weekend, which obviously didn't go in the back of the net. But I think there is maybe more within the ethic or within the team structure itself, a desire for everybody to contribute in that sense.

13:58That it's not just down to the Maverick guys that you bring in. it's about making more of those opportunities on the edge of the box where I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Arsenal have been at times a little bit shot shy in the past. Absolutely. I mean, I think actually kind of almost if you take that to the other end, it's probably the case that Arsenal got counted on a lot more than they would have liked last night. And I think they gave up, you know, an awful lot of shots, an awful lot of chances. Some of that was rouge playing quite well i thought but i think some of it is that arsenal are like scurrying back more than they're used to and that they're a bit more chaotic but maybe that's not a bad thing you know arsenal can be the team that that plays with the handbrake on but it's very controlled but they can also be the sort of the team that like cuts the brakes on this game and sort of says well we're at the top of the hill we're going down like do you fancy yourselves in this do you fancy to emerge from the wreckage of this game.

14:55And I thought this was quite that sort of game. And you just back your finishing quality, you back your forwards, and you back your defenders at the other end who are not perfect, but you can kind of trust they'll be better. How much do you put last night, for example? Because I think this is a game that probably needs to be looked at in isolation rather than as concurrent with most of what Arsenal have done this season. And part of that is the context, maybe. the fact that Arcelor, top of the Champions League table, were top of the Champions League table and could not take it easy, but this was not a high stakes encounter.

15:32There was also obviously the absence of Gabriel, of Saliba, of Christian Mosquera. You're playing a defensive midfielder at centre half. You're playing Piero Incapier, whatever you want to call him, the dog driving the car, which is still a brilliant analogy. But I watched him last night and was like, I if I was a center forward I would absolutely hate to be playing against Piero and Capier because Martin Keown was on commentary for TNT sports and Martin Keown's nickname back in the day was rash because he was all over the opposition player when he was you know very often asked to do a man marking job and it was literally man marking to the nth degree he would follow him around the pitch, he'd be all over him in every challenge.

16:18There were elements of that to Incapierre's game. But I think, you know, you're sort of missing the running power of Declan Rice. You're missing your defensive solidity at centre half. So I think when you look at the chances that Club Bruges had, and they did have chances, and I think maybe an underrated player in this game is David Raya, because they had seven or eight shots on target. He had to make seven or eight saves, a couple of them pretty good saves. But I think it was more about what Arsenal missed in terms of connections and cohesion than the sort of game plan itself. Yeah, I felt like this was a game that no one needs reminding of Declan Rice's qualities.

17:03But when you have Declan Rice in that left eight position, there are so many occasions where the opposition think, oh we're getting away with one here we're gonna get and then he comes slamming in uh wins the ball back and arsenal suddenly have dangerous possession in the attacking third and you know we'll talk about depth for all through this season it may well be the story of a successful season and what was the difference but like you can't have a depth option behind declan rice you know there is no alternative to that michael marino was absolutely fine no no problem with that but what he can't do is, you know, warp the field.

17:41Like Declan Rice can. There's maybe only half a dozen players in the world that can do that. And I think kind of then everything becomes more difficult from there. I think it's a lot easier, again, for like Hinkapie to go with his attacker when Declan Rice is there with the sort of instincts for, okay, Hinkapie's gone. I've got the running power and the defensive knowledge to cover. And I do always think, you know, this was a, what, 18 shots, one and a half or something, say, XG game for Club Bruges, I think if you put Rice in this team, you take those shots down to 12. Raya doesn't have as much to do.

18:20And, you know, I think that's fine. That's no worry. It helps as well, doesn't it, that you have one of the best goalkeepers in the world in those circumstances. So, like you say, it's a game to sort of not sort of get het up with the systemic problems because the systemic problems come from the fact you can't name your best players yeah I mean I think your point about Rice and the way he covers the there was a moment late in the first half when Stankovic beat the offside trap I was I was convinced he was so far beyond the last defender I was absolutely convinced he was offside and somebody on Blue Sky sent me a screenshot where I think it's Christian Norgard playing him on by a mile but he goes running through but in one of the replays you can see Mikel Marino sort of chasing back going like Jesus trying to get back desperately to cover for Incappier and it was one of those saves that Raya made and I think you know fair play to Club Bruges after we went ahead the momentum shifted a little bit and they did have chances there was another one Stankovic I think from the edge of the box just curled wide and there was a moment wasn't there I can't remember first half or second half where the ball broke to, I can't remember which player it was, but it broke to him in exactly the same way as it broke to Emi Buendia at Aston Villa.

19:42I was like, oh, fucking flashbacks. But he didn't quite apply the same sort of finish. But, you know, there was stuff for Arsenal to deal with defensively in this game. Yeah, it's the nature of Champions League football. And I know by all accounts, Club Bridge are not having the best time of it. But you play teams that kind of spend most of their time, you play teams in the league phase that spend so much of their time as front-footed teams. They don't really see the logic in going 5-4-1 for Arsenal. They don't know how to play it and they won't be playing it for any games other than these ones.

20:21We should also say, like, Club Bruges scored three goals against Barcelona. They're clearly not a bad team. and I do think that you know that sometimes brings out a more chaotic side to the game I mean even if you go back to sort of the 7-2 against PSV Eindhoven PSV had far more chances that's why they got two goals they had far more chances than the most Premier League teams that would kind of come and nick a point against Arsenal and you know I think that it serves to sort of maybe heighten the sense that like you say Christian Norgard is not a man that is used to the offside trap. He's hardly sort of a Tony Adams type.

21:00Myles Lyskele looked rusty, which is to be expected because even though he's getting more minutes of late, it's not week in, week out, starting with Gabriel inside of him. I thought they were, especially in that period before Maduweke's goal just sort of killed them a little bit, even a little bit after the third goal. I thought they played some nice front-footed football and sort of showed that, you know, against this Arsenal, you can make some chances for yourself. Yeah, so look, I guess their halftime message would have been, hey, we've had some encouragement. Let's keep that up, guys. Don't give anything away early in the second half.

21:39I don't know if they switched off. There was a weird moment where there was a throw into Arsenal and the ref had a word with Jokeres about it. So Jokeres was complaining and he called Odegaard over and had a word with Jokeres. I don't know if they were distracted by that, but the ball came to Martin Zubimendi, who I want to ask you about before we just unpack the goal. I want to ask you about Martin Zubimendi. He sort of took it beyond the defender. Beautiful cross with his left foot. And the defenders and the goalkeeper just watch it go over their heads. Nani Madweke, good movement, back post, simple little header for him to make it 2-0.

22:17And that would have taken the wind completely out of the Club Bruges sails. Oh, completely. Yeah. You know, I've watched the goal back three or four times and I don't, like you, I don't really understand what went wrong here. Just sloppy, isn't it? And maybe, maybe I don't want to like blow the Arsenal trumpet too much, but maybe we look at this and go, what on earth has happened here? We don't ever see this in football matches, but you know, we mostly watch Arsenal. like we don't see errors we don't we don't see defensive errors and we normally see the other team drilled to within an inch of their life to sort of try and cling on in the game yeah it was i mean i think the thing though is huge credit to madowake that he he's gambling on that and um i think that gambling instinct is something that other big money forwards in this team could could learn from.

23:14Okay. Let's talk about Zubomendi because week on week, I get ever more impressed by him. And I think what we saw in this game was a creative element, which people don't necessarily associate with him. Six key passes in this game, which for a DM, a number six is quite good going. It's fair to say. The cross for Madiweke was delicious with his left foot. But what I was just so, and every week I watch him, I get more and more impressed by what's obviously real football intelligence. And that's sort of like a buzzword that gets thrown around sometimes without any real meaning or with any real context.

24:03But when you watch Zubimendi, you can see it, not just with what he does with the ball, but where he positions himself in our half, in the opposition half, when we've got the ball and when we don't have the ball. I think his adaptation and his integration and becoming such a fundamental piece of this Arsenal team so quickly is a real credit to him. I'd love to sort of go back and watch a game that he played with maybe an Eza Rice midfield straight after this one. because you know like you say on game intelligence i have this feeling that he understands the profile of the players around him and what is then required of him so when it's eza when it's rice that's two players that are going to really look to force the issue up the tempo drive past players and his job is probably to cycle the ball around the attacking third to sit a little bit deeper and just kind of control the tempo a little bit more.

25:06Be, you know, the classic DM. Last night, you know, like you say, six chances created. I think in the attacking third, he was kind of the loosest in possession. I think he gave the ball away more or like we had the lowest pass completion percentage of anyone in that Arsenal team. And I think that's a function of him understanding that, you know, I'm not here to sort of debate or criticize Martin Odegaard, but the Martin Erdegaard is maybe not the guy to accelerate the speed of play. Mikel Moreno, similarly, probably not. I don't want to, again, it's not a criticism, a player that might just keep things moving.

25:47And with those two in front of him, maybe what Supermendy could do most effectively is to play the slightly more high risk, high reward passes, gamble a little bit with possession and see what comes of it. and I think for a lot of players I would just be skeptical and I'd be like well no they maybe just didn't pass the ball very well but with Zubimendi I have long since got to the stage where I'm just going to believe he understands the game so well that what's the most complex answer it might well just be that that's what he was trying to do here because yeah the speed of his adaptation and understanding of like how you play Premier League football and how you play for an English team right you didn't get this from rodri you didn't get this from granite jacker you didn't get this from almost any sort of midfielder you care to name i'm i'm blown away by it um and you see it every time he sort of picks someone's pocket in the other half right now i i yeah i'm in awe of the guy i i think it's the one of the best pieces of business that michel that we've done in the michael arteta era um i think he is kind of up there with rice saliba and gabriel it's like i just couldn't do without him oh absolutely big game um and the knowledge that he will quite quickly read the circumstances of the game and just run it the way he needs to is something really invigorating for when you think about what might be happening in April and May.

27:22Yeah, for sure. I mean, he completed 46 of 57 passes last night. Nine of the 11 misplaced passes were forward passes in the opposition half. So that tells you exactly what you just said, you know, that this was about trying to make things happen. It's not about carelessness. It's not about coughing up the ball laterally in midfield in areas where, you know, you You expect him to make a pass. He's trying to make things happen. They didn't always happen, but it happened enough, obviously, with the goal and the other chances that he created. So, yeah, I'm with you. I think he's been absolutely vital.

27:58I suppose, you know, I'm not saying it's a downside of last night, but the injuries, the fact that Norgard had to play at centre-half rather than in midfield probably meant that Zubimendi had to do 90 minutes when ideally maybe you wouldn't want that. Perhaps this weekend, though, if there are players back and there are more options available to Mikel Arteta, Wolves at home might just be the kind of fixture where he can look on from the bench. And if we need him, we need him. If we don't, we don't. He has a nice little rest then before the next game against Everton. Martinelli, a case of, well, anything you can do.

28:39Because, you know, as I said earlier, this is not the kind of goal you normally associate with Gabriel Martinelli. I have a vague recollection of that. Remember that blistering period where he first came into the team and started scoring goals, that there were maybe one or two like this back then. But generally speaking, these are not the kind of goals that he scores. You know, 25-yard curlers from outside the box. I don't have too many recollections of him doing that, But it's a lovely little string to add to his bow, isn't it? You know, beating a man, cutting back, curling in the shot, into the top corner.

29:17If Matueke can score a banger, so can I. And Arsenal's two, in inverted commas, second-choice wingers. And I say that just because Trossard has been in such good form. Saka is Saka. But Martinelli, five games in a row in the Champions League, he scored for Arsenal, first player ever to do that. and maybe this is the best of the five goals that he's got so far this season. Yeah, we always got the sense, didn't we, that he was learning from Gabriel Jesus and Jesus was vital to him. These are two guys that it's just like they hear that music and it's the Ronaldinho licking his lips meme, isn't it, when the Champions League music plays.

29:57They light up. I mean, I can't remember one. I'm like kind of scratching my head. It was, you know, against Forrest in the EFL Cup under Emery. I feel like he scored two goals and there was a header and maybe the other one was good. Obviously, part of this is we don't see that because really Martinelli, before this sort of more recent run of games, hadn't very often been getting into those attacking midfielder, sacker on the other flank positions of a license to cut inside. He was the chalk on your boots winger, hold it wide. and we wonder why he's not sort of scoring 15, 16 goals like he was in that first title challenging year.

30:37Well, he's dribbling down the wing. And I do think he, I sort of be intrigued to get a sense from Arteta if this is deliberate, if this is just where the games have taken them to an extent like you have, especially like when he had Calafiore playing against Bayern, like Calafiore has been a bit more willing to go down the flank on occasion and that opens up this space inside. But yeah, from there, it's a lovely goal that I want to just be very clear from the outset. You know, my heart is with Nani Maduweke's first goal. You know. I'm not asking you to choose. It's not like you're asking you to pick your favourite children here, James.

31:18You know, you can love them both. Choose your favourite child and someone answers a bit too quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him, that one. Oh, shit. Yeah, no, it's a great goal. And it gave Arsenal the cushion they needed to go on and control the game pretty comfortably. It also allowed Mikel Arteta to make some changes. And I suppose the most interesting change, notable change, was the return of Gabriel Jesus. After 333 days on the sideline with a really bad ACL injury, they didn't expect him to come back this quickly, which is why he wasn't previously included in the Champions League squad. but injury to Max Dowman meant that he could be registered in time for this one.

32:01And an interesting little cameo from him as well. It struck me when I looked at some of the positions that he got into, and I think I should caveat this by saying it's later in the game. He's got fresh legs. The defenders are a bit more tired. The game is a bit more open, a bit more stretched. But it just struck me that if we could combine Gabriel Jesus' ability to get into those positions with the sort of power and ferocity of Victor Jacare's finishing, we would have a hell of a player on our hands. We need a gejesurus. I don't know. You know, I think Jacare's struggled to really make an impact.

32:48I don't know that he got a lot of service as well. So that's fair to say. and he is only coming back from injury. But, you know, the sort of contrast between him not necessarily getting in the positions, but then Jesus getting into those positions and the finishing just lacking that kind of power or clinical nature that you expect from Jacare when he certainly gets into those positions or got into those positions with frequency for Sporting Lisbon a bit more than Arsenal so far. It'd be a hell of a player, but listen, We've all watched the new Frankenstein and it just doesn't turn out that well.

33:26Can I sort of go back in time as well and give him Kai Havertz's availability prior to 2025? Yes. Why not? Why not? Yeah, I mean, I think I'm firmly of the view of like anything you get from Gabriel Jesus this season is a bonus. I think it's kind of worryingly, worryingly feels like his knees have just given up the ghost. But, I mean, it's always seemed to me that, you know, if Mikel Arteta could have anyone, maybe even in world football, lead the Arsenal line beyond the sort of very best, it would be that prime version of Gabriel Jesus that they had in the summer of 2022, in the autumn of 2022.

34:15Just a player that can... What struck me, the thing that I know a few people didn't like about Jokic was maybe when he was coming to the ball. There wasn't that, there's the strength but maybe not the ability to knock that first pass and then get things moving. And I thought you got that really nicely from Jesus. He's a lot stronger than people think, or at least he is until something happens to him. And it was really notable to me that he can move, he can bring defenders with him, still win that duel, pass the ball nicely and Arsenal are going, and he's free to roam a bit further and a bit wider.

34:54I really, really like that profile of striker. And I think there are going to be a lot of games where that would be the ideal way for Arsenal to build their attack. I mean, you kind of saw like even Mikel Moreno when he was playing up front was giving Arsenal a bit more of that. I'll drop out of the front line and make this space that Calafiore can fill. that I'm mad that I go to Calafuri before I go to any of Arsenal's actual attackers. Calafuri can feel that Martinelli, Trossard, whoever. And I think it makes Arsenal a bit easier on the eye. It makes them a bit more unpredictable. The trade-off then is that, like you say, the Jesus shots end up being a lot of side-footers from the edge of the box.

35:37Whereas the imagined ideal of Jocarez that we were seeing before the injury, on occasion is the guy that's hanging around a little bit that might only get 12 touches in the game but one of those is to absolutely leather the ball in from six yards out um and i think it will be a horses for courses thing in the ideal world where where jesus can play havertz can play and joker has can play they're they're all such they're all relatively unique profiles and there There would be games that call for all three of them. I mean, I know it's not going to happen, but, you know, man can dream. Well, yeah, because of the inevitability of an Arsenal injury depriving us of a player.

36:20Is that what it is? But I do think it's a fascinating thing to think about because for me, Jesus, listen, I think Jokic is different from Havertz, is different from Marino, but I can sort of see a through line between the three big guys, if you like. And that is the presence that they give you in the box. But what I think with Jesus is you have a level of skill and craft and an ability to turn a technical level that's really, really, really high. And that just gives him that little bit, I don't want to call it X factor, but just a little bit of something different for the Arsenal attack. So I think it would be hugely beneficial if between now and May, we can keep him fit.

37:02He can start some games. He can come on in some games. we know he can also play in the wide areas too that we have those decisions to make or Mikel Arteta has those decisions to make which as you said horses for courses it does feel like let's say magically all those players are available and approximating 100 % fit at some point in the new year I think it might depend on the opposition it might depend on the form it It might depend on who else is in the team around them. Like who's behind them in midfield? Is Eze there? Is Odegaard there? Is someone not there? Do we need more of a blunt force instrument?

37:44Do we need a bit more crowd? You know, I think there will be really interesting decisions for Mikel Arteta to make. I mean, it feels like so often this season in particular that the ability to demonstrate his decision-making when it comes to players in certain positions has been stripped away because there is no decision. You only have Jokeres at the start of the season because Jesus is out and because Kai Havertz picks up an injury. So Jokeres has to play all the time. And then when Jokeres is not there, well, you have to play Mikel Moreno. But when you can choose between A, B, C and D, that's where I think it'll start to get very interesting for Arteta.

38:24And for us as spectators, looking to see how he not only manages the squad, but attempts to win games in different competitions with a schedule that is going to be really, really hectic. and I think what's so frustrating about the fact that we've kind of seen Arteta forced into this position of just like hammering away Victor Jokeres's ankles until they go pop and you know you know having to feel like feeling compelled a bit to run Declan Rice as to run Declan Rice ragged is that actually when he's in a position to do this to be a bit more rotational I think we've seen a little bit of growth there and a real sense of like he knows the weapons to use and when you know the athletic Bilbao game is of course the one that stands out where Arsenal had sort of ground uh ground them down brought them out a little bit as well and it was just like bang Trossard Martinelli let's win the game that way um you know against teams like forest as well he had a good sense of like this is the moment to bring jokeres in to attack with you know how they want to use mad awake all those traits were being displayed pretty encouragingly and it just they just don't get the chance to do it more yeah it was is there a game i remember where he just threw in mascara as well at the back I might be making that last one up.

39:59But I think there's a will from Arteta.

40:06He doesn't want to coach the way he is, but sometimes there's a load of impact injuries. And a lot of it, we have to say, has been impact injuries. It's been weird things that happen on the pitch that you can't coach out of a squad. so I I hope this these sunlit uplands of Jesus, Havertz and Jokeres marauding around the field I hope we just get it for our month yeah whatever happens that would be nice it would be lovely wouldn't it and some lovely scenes at the end I think you know with Jesus having been out for so long and players understand how hard that is when you don't play and you've got to go through the rehab and the pain and like I saw his interview post game where, you know, he was, he's obviously a religious guy and he was talking quite a lot about God and how he gives all the thanks to God for saving his life is basically what he said.

40:59And he intimated, he went through some very, very difficult times, but ultimately he's the guy who's got to do the rehab and do the work and do the training. And he's got to see his mates go out and play every week and he can't be involved. And that is for any footballer, whether you're professional or amateur or semi-pro, whatever it is, if you can't play and you're looking at all your mates, it's the worst. It's just the absolute worst. So the scenes at the end with, you know, Ben White, with Kepa, big hugs from Kepa and those, they knew what this meant to him and how hard he's had to work to get himself back onto the pitch.

41:36Yeah. I mean, several of them like Ben white have had fairly similar experiences sadly i i think what's credit to jesus is i mean you sort you've seen this kind of in some of the interviews that he's given with the brazilian media as well there is there's always that escape route for him i think he's such a high profile player in his homeland and everyone's sort of known that like while this recovery in december was earlier than arsenal expected that he'd be kind of in a position where if he wanted to he could go back to brazil finish off his rehab there play for a palmeiras or another team and kind of win his world cup spot in the brazilian league go back home call it a day and realistically in the summer if a brazilian club had come along and said we'd like to take jesus off your hands arsler not gonna say no he's still only 28 though you know i know i mean but and that's the thing he He didn't give up.

42:34He wasn't like, this is me done now at the top European level. He sort of said, you know, I'm going to keep playing for this. He said right along, hasn't he, that he's got this contract until the end of next season. He'd like to see that out. And I mean, you know, I know some of that is also a function of the fact he's very well remunerated for playing for Arsenal. But it's really clear when we sort of spoken to him after previous comebacks, he bought into that project from day one. He was entranced by the idea of making this contender, having been parachuted into one at City. And I don't think he feels like his business is done or will be done until he's played a part in Arsenal winning the biggest prizes.

43:17Well, fingers crossed he can do that. Nice little cameo from Ethan Winery, a player who hasn't maybe played as much as people might like, certainly not as much as he would have liked. I think that's true of both him and Myles this season. I think as well, it's a function or a consequence of having this big, deep squad that your minutes as an 18-year-old become a little more limited. But, you know, he could have put Ezza on. He didn't. He put Weneri on. And he was lively and bright and did, I'm sure, apart from put the ball in the back of the net, denied by a good save from the keeper. You know, he did exactly what Mikel Arteta would have wanted him to do in that situation.

43:56The game was won. you could coast about for 20 minutes if you want but he was really trying to catch the eye but not in a you know sometimes with young players they're like oh I've got to do something I've got to like score the goal I've got to make the dribble I've got to you know this is almost like a selfishness to it I don't think that was the case with Weneri there were a couple of nice combos with Myles Lewis Skelly helped the team get high up the pitch I was impressed by that And I know it's a positive night. We're probably taking all the positives and amplifying them a little bit. But why not?

44:29Why not? We've come off the back of a weekend where the negatives were certainly amplified far and wide. And I understand that. So why not do it the opposite way? Yeah. I think what I liked about Nourneri is he just came on and played his game. It was, like we sort of said about Madueke, it was aggressive in possession. But not like I've got a point to make here aggressive. It was, this is how I play. I'll pull the trigger. If there's a chance to pull the trigger, I'll have a go. Really nice, like good eye for a pass. Was not gambling with possession, but was pushing Arsenal up the field. I don't know how often we'll get to see that over the next few months.

45:08I suppose the worry is a successful season for Arsenal is probably one where it's relatively unsuccessful on an individual level for Nournary, but, you know, needs must. Who knows? A debut as well, right back for 16-year-old Marley, Salmon, worth noting as well, given how very, very young he is. He only turned 16 in August. Again, a consequence of defensive absences and injuries, but a great moment for Hayland, another player coming through, another very highly rated young player as well. So yeah, there's a nice little icing or a little cherry on the cake, I guess. I saw a stat which I can't quite remember, so apologies to opt if i butcher this but i believe it's sort of there've been three english players 16 or younger to have played in the champions league and they've all come through hail end so that would be wilshire max diamond and uh marley salmon wow and i mean owen hargreaves i think made this point after the game on on tnt the guys just come in and they look utterly at ease with the situation it It doesn't, you know, there's nothing skittish about his seven minutes.

46:20And I know that seven minutes when you're 3-0 up against Club Bruges is not the sort to discombobulate a young professional, but he looked like an Arsenal player. It's pretty nice to see. Especially because if Arsenal can get an academy graduate through their defence, that's the first in, well, other than Lewis Skelly, in 20 years. Who are we talking now? We're talking Justin Hoyt? Hoyt, yes. That is 20 years now. I mean, he's invincible, adjacent. Adjacent, yeah. Wow, yeah, it is hard. It is hard to make defenders. It's hard to make strikers and hard to make defenders. What happens is sometimes your attackers become defenders, as we saw in the shape of Lewis Galley, you know, as an attacking midfielder or a midfielder.

47:07Ashley Cole as well was an attacker who moved back to left-back. So, listen, you know, all in all, a very good night for Arsenal. and the European form, six wins out of six. You know, there's been a remarkable and probably underappreciated consistency to Arsenal's group stages in the Champions League since we returned to the competition a couple of years ago where, you know, last season was really, really impressive. Season before as well, I think. This season, no defeats, you know. Sometimes it can take a club or a team a little while to get used to the top level of European football again. And I do think it is worth appreciating just how good and how consistent Arsenal have been in the group stages of the Champions League.

47:59It's sort of like, yeah, of course, Arsenal won again. And it's not easy. I mean, it's really not easy. I'm fascinated. Do you think it will matter to Mikel Arteta at all that Arsenal could be the first team to have an eight win from a league phase? Is that something that like, I mean, it has to end. It's a bit like, you know, in the in leagues like, you know, in the NBA, was it 10 years ago, the Golden State Warriors went 73 and nine. there was a new win record right and they didn't win the championship so forever was like well they did all that and they didn't win anything but like it is it's a it's a way of i mean at the very least i think if you were to go eight eight wins from eight you are stamping your authority on this competition you are saying to the rest of europe as you did against bayern munich look we're the best team we're we're the ones you're going to have to be you know every road to the the trophy probably goes through us.

48:59The sort of curio side of it, my suspicion is like, everyone in the fan base will be like, if you can do that without risking a minute of Saka, Gabriel, Saliba, more power to you. I think it will matter to him in the sense that he is a guy who wants to win every game. I think he is also somebody we know, maybe it sort of doesn't get remarked on much anymore because of how long he's been at the club. But I think part of what drives Arteta is to change the perception of Arsenal. And that has been a key to everything that he has done. I always go back to this, and I mentioned it before. Do you remember the game against Man City before he took over?

49:46And, you know, it was, yeah, I try not to as well. But this moment always sticks in my mind where City, they win that game 3-0, I think. They don't have to get out of second gear. And there's Mikel Arteta sitting on the bench, looking around, and you can see he is thinking, this is just not good enough. It's not good enough for Arsenal Football Club to get turned over, however good Manchester City are, for the apathy that was within the fan base and inside the stadium. And that's not me being critical of that. That was a build-up of years that brought Arsenal to that point. And I think when Arteta looked around the stadium that night, he looked at Pep and he looked at what was happening at Arsenal.

50:33And fundamental to everything that he's done has been to change the perception of this football club domestically and in Europe. And it's been a process and it's been part of it. And I think it doesn't win you anything if you win eight in a row in the group stage and you finish top of the table. It might help you get a more favorable draw. But I also think that when other clubs are looking at Arsenal, if we win eight from eight and finish top of the Champions League group and you've beaten Atletico Madrid and you've beaten Inter, which, you know, is no easy task if we can manage to do that. You've beaten Bayern Munich.

51:09You haven't conceded a goal apart from so far, I think the game against Munich is the only goal Arsenal have conceded in Europe so far. You've got clean sheets against, you know, teams who are decent. I think that is something that he would absolutely want without saying, this is our goal. This is our ambition for the season. I just think it's all part of what he wants to do. It's what big clubs do. And I think, you know, it's really interesting you mentioned that because right the way through the story and remembering, I was thinking that Arsenal were a sort of big club in name only. They didn't act like a big club.

51:48They didn't recruit like a big club. They couldn't energize their fan base. I mean, obviously the biggest clubs just sort of like lurch Real Madrid style into chaos every few weeks. But I mean, I think the sort of value of this Champions League phase, if they get top, aside from all the seeding and the home draw and all that, is that you've just sort of said, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we're not just back. We are, you know, prime Arsenal here. We are like the best team in Europe, or at least we can lay claim to that title before it's officially crowned. And I think that, like you say, I think that matters for the Arteta project.

52:33So we'll wait and see. Obviously, there are two games in January to run out the Champions League group stage. I did want to ask you before we go, James, about the FA Cup. The draw was made this week. Arsenal away to Portsmouth. Hasn't been the kindest competition for Arsenal. I think this is another fascinating thing. I'm so... Oh, there's another thing I want to ask you about before the end. I'm going to write it down here so I don't forget. But the FA Cup, right? The win in 2020 probably gave Mikel Arteta a kind of security that he might not otherwise have had during a period where we were building, developing and went through a really bad run of form.

53:17And, you know, at other clubs, he might have been given the P45. But the FA Cup was sort of like this security thing for him because he'd won it in his first season. But ever since, Arsene have been subpar. Yeah, okay, fair enough. A bit shit in the FA Cup, right? And I'm fascinated as to what he thinks about. I'm also fascinated as to sort of what the wider fan base thinks about the FA Cup, because there is this pressure on Arsene to deliver trophies. And there will be people, if Arsene win the FA Cup and that's it, will say, well, that's not good enough. That's not enough to win the FA Cup. We want more than that.

53:57And obviously, the aim and the ambition and the way we've built this squad is to win the Premier League and the Champions League. But the FA Cup remains important. It remains important to maybe people of my generation a bit more than some of the younger generations, which is absolutely fine. And I'm just curious to know how much you think in the second half of this season, Arteta will focus on the Cups, but prioritize the Cups. A lot will depend on the draw. Obviously, if you get a nice draw, you get sort of Portsmouth and Chesterfield and Altrincham and all that. It's great because he can just play a heavily rotated team, but that's not always the way it goes in the FA Cup.

54:42and the last two times we've won it has been Man City in the semifinal and Chelsea in the final. So you have to beat the big boys along the way somewhere. But do you think there's any chance that in the midst of a title race, he can overlook the importance of winning the FA Cup? We're still in the EFL Cup as well, let's not forget. So the Cups are a sidebar, obviously, to the main events this season. is there a risk

55:17I think like you say I mean we should start with it's a pretty it's a pretty favorable draw Portsmouth in the relegation zone in the the championship so it allows you to do what games against I mean we've had Liverpool City United in the last few years don't allow you to do in the third round when you're running probably running on steam anyway it's just rest a few players you know you would think against Portsmouth it will be whoever needs minutes in their legs and that that's final I mean I think what we also need to like remember is in those years with Arsene Wenger when Arsenal won the biggest prizes or were in the mix for the biggest prizes they would sometimes I might I might be misremembering some of these, but I certainly remember games in the double winning seasons where Arteta went unduly, sorry, where Wenger went unduly weak and just found a way through.

56:19The United game where he doesn't start on rate, that's the invincible season. That's the invincible season, yeah, I think so, yeah. So there's always a risk to it that ultimately only pays off if you win the biggest prizes. But in the end, I think Arsenal are so well-placed to win one or two trophies that really, really matter at the moment. If Mikel Arteta were to draw Man City in the fourth round and just went, nah, not having it. I think at this, even if at the end of the season, Arsenal end up with nothing, people are saying, you should have gone for it, Mikel. I think I would sort of park the criticism of not taking the FA Cup seriously I presume I would also have to have a lot of criticism for whatever's gone wrong that means Arsenal haven't won anything sure but yeah but I it's it's 21 years I you know I'm not going to tell people how old I was when Arsenal last won the trophy I'm still just about at the age where it will annoy them and it's you know forever since they've won the Champions League I think this year of all years when it looks like there's a chance at least one of them you know you can sort of I think you can tolerate a little bit of indifference to the FA Cup when they've won them I'm going to be like standards treble now let's go for that it is raising my expectations Mikel Arteta I'm going to need to see a treble yeah one treble please it is it's one of Those things where people say, I don't care about the FA Cup.

57:53And then their reaction if Arsenal get knocked out of the FA Cup doesn't necessarily marry with that previous contention. It's a tricky one. It is a challenge trying to balance all the competitions that you're in. So we'll see how that goes. The final thing I wanted to ask you, and I would love for somebody to ask this of Mikel Arteta. I wonder, do you have an answer or an explanation or a theory on this? Why do Arsenal insist on taking long throws when the long throws that we take are not sufficiently long to cause the kind of danger that long throws should cause? What is happening here? Because, listen, valiant effort from Christian Norgard last night.

58:42Calafiore is like half decent. Rice, half decent. And I feel sorry when I see Myles Lewis-Galley trying to throw a long one. That's not his strength at all. But it seems to be something that we continue to do. And I think from one of them last night, they broke upfield and had a good shot on target. So what's your best guess at why this is a continued element of Arsenal's play this season? are you pushing the the opposition back into their penalty area and thinking well maybe there's more bodies in there something will happen like that is all i've got because you know it's they're rubbish they're not very good yeah they're not very good and i don't know that you can train to be good at or in your mid-20s that you can train to be good at throwing a football really far No.

59:40Or, I mean, I'm sure you could sort of take Declan Rice out of training for two weeks and do some sort of, you know, boot camp for him to become able to throw the ball far enough. Only able, like... Not naturally, not like a natural ability like some of the guys have. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it just doesn't work. It just isn't it. I mean, maybe also a short throw is of so little value that maybe you just kind of want to see if like someone flicks it on and something happens. But yeah, rubbish. They're really rubbish. I think what it is, is that they're easy to defend. You know, that's the issue for me is that they're not, they don't go deep enough and they don't go flat enough.

1:00:24It's a high looping ball outside the near post, which I think at this level of the game, pretty much every defender is going to feel, right, that is mine. and I'm going to win that and render this nonsense redundant, basically. Maybe they're just going to buy Michael Coyote. Maybe so. Just setting it up. Imagine. All right, listen, we'll leave it there. James, as ever, a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks very much for being with us. Thanks ever so much.

1:00:57Thank you very much indeed to James. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at jamesbenge.bsky.social, at jamesbenge.bsky.social. Right. I did tell you we were going to have a competition for you, and it is the aforementioned Eberache as a Dragon Ball T-shirt, which you can get from a store like 94. You will find a link to the T-shirt in the show notes. There's also a 10 % discount code, by the way. If you want to just go and buy one, you can get 10 % off by using the code FINALPEACE, capital letters, final piece, P-I-E-C-E. That will give you a 10 % discount from a store like 94 on this t-shirt.

1:01:37Nevertheless, if you would like to win one, all you have got to do is answer the following question. Against who did Eberacea Ezez score his first Arsenal goal? So the first Ezez goal in an Arsenal shirt. Who did he score it against? Simply send your answer, please, to competition at arseblog.com. That's competition at arseblog.com. We've got a couple of t-shirts to give away. We'll give you the winners on next week's show. No need to send size or anything like that. If you win, I'll be in touch and we'll get all your details and get the t-shirt sent out to you. And thanks to Dan and Josh and a store like 94 for the prizes.

1:02:13And you can go have a look at the t-shirt in the link, which I already mentioned. And I think that is just about that for this week's show. We will have a preview podcast for you tomorrow over on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. Remember as well, if you're really, really stuck for a gift, you can gift somebody a year of Arseblog Patreon. You also get a 10 % discount if you sign up for the year. The link to that is also in the show notes, our gift link, which will give that lucky person access to everything that we do on Patreon, our preview podcast, The 30, ad-free Arsecast and Arsecast Extra and Arsenal Women Arsecast, Discord chat, and lots more besides.

1:02:53Okay, that's it. I am out of here. As ever, I want to thank you so much indeed for listening and for being with us. Hope you enjoyed the show. For now, take it easy, folks, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:03:29Thank you.

1:04:16some decent build-up play down the right-hand side there from Arsenal nonny madwacky combines with victor gaiukares trying to pull the defense apart here martin supimendi looks for the opening plays it back to madwacky oh that was very very close indeed some might say he even mad whacked it over the bar not me though i'll leave that to the likes of Fletch. Goal kick is taken long and, oh, intercepted very well by Ben White.

1:05:03But he's offside.