Episode 861 - Get it Inter ya ...

0:23Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. This is a midweek post-game show. Arsenal were in Champions League action last night in Italy, away to Inter Milan at the San Siro, and made it seven wins from seven in the Champions League so far this season. Two goals from Gabriel Jesus, a goal from Victor Jacarez. After all the focus on our forwards, and in particular our strikers, Both of them made a big contribution last night. There was plenty more to talk about, plenty more to chat about, and plenty more to enjoy from last night.

1:06So we're just going to get on with the show. And with me, to recap the game, some of the individual performances, as well as talking about Ethan Wenaire's proposed loan move to Marseille, is Andrew Allen. Good morning, Andrew. Good morning. That was fun. It was fun, wasn't it? Because, listen, I don't want to go into the weeds of everything again, But, you know, there is such tension that comes with the Premier League. It's not that this wasn't a big game, but this is slightly distinct from the pressure of the Premier League and every weekend what we have to contend with as we look to win the title again.

1:39It's not that the Champions League will be completely stress-free. If you get to the knockout stages of the Champions League, you know, you're going to be feeling that kind of stress as well. But last night, you know, not that it was a free hit, but, you know, it was devoid of that, like, acute anxiety in the build-up, even within the game itself. And I think, overall, it was an enjoyable game of football. First half in particular, I think, it was quite a romp, a European romp, which you don't normally get particularly away to an Italian side. Yeah. I mean, you say it wasn't a free hit. In some ways, it kind of was.

2:16We just didn't treat it that way. I mean, I think pre-game with City losing to Bodo Glimt, we secured the top eight. And I guess with the game against Kairac coming up, there was a sense that, okay, we can secure top two, even if we didn't, you know, win in the San Siro. But I thought, you know, the team was really interesting. I thought the start was really interesting, just how aggressive we were. And it was quite clear that Arteta sent them out and said, take this seriously. Let's go and, you know, make a statement again. And, you know, he said as much after the game, I think he referenced the Bayern and the Atletico wins at home.

2:54But there's something about doing it away, which I feel like he really wanted this team to go to another level. So it was great fun, really. I mean, I think, you know, I don't think it makes you a hypocrite to be frustrated and to voice the frustration when you see us play as we do in the league sometimes, you know, particularly that Forest game the other day. It was just, you know, a real grind. And I did worry a little bit, I guess, at the, you know, this being the fourth of four away games in 10 days, which is, you know, that's a lot for these players. You know, they're away from home. They've got a lot on their plate, the travel, tiredness in the legs.

3:34But it was really professional. I was really impressed. I think your point about him wanting to beat Inter is a really good one. I think before the game, people would have been unsurprised if the Arsenal team had been stronger from the start in this particular game. And I think he puts quite a bit of stock in games like this as building blocks for confidence and belief and also, let's say, the reputation that Arsenal have across Europe, which is burgeoning, I guess, if not well established at this point. You know, having got to the quarterfinals in our first year back in the Champions League, and we went out to Bayern, by one goal.

4:18Last year, got to the semifinals, beating Real Madrid along the way, and we went out in the semifinal to PSG when we had nobody on the bench. And this time around, we've made it seven wins from seven, the first time we've ever won seven consecutive Champions League games in a row. We went to a place where last season we were beaten 1-0, slightly contentiously with a penalty. So there is, for him, I think, real merit to games like this, even if, as fans, we might say, well, it doesn't really matter because next week we're going to play Kairat and that will secure our either position at the top of the table or at least in the top two.

4:56But for Arteta, there's a bit more to it. And I think what's maybe most pleasing or perhaps one of the really pleasing elements of this is that he did make changes and seven changes from the team that started against Nottingham Forest. Christian Mosquera comes in. Luis Skelly comes in. Eber Echeiza is in there. Mikel Moreno starts, Bakayo Saka, you've got Trossard starting, you've got Gabriel Jesus starting up front. So there was this rotation that people wanted to see because we've got a big game coming up on Sunday, the likes of Rice and Odegaard, Gabriel left on the bench, but he put out a team that he believed could go and win this game.

5:35And the fact that they were able to put in that kind of performance and win it, I think is going to be a real encouragement to him and to the players who started this one. yeah I mean I looked at the team and I didn't go that's any weaker really you know I guess you know Declan Rice's absence always makes you you question yourself but there was an excitement to see what some of these guys can do because there's been sympathy for the fact that some of them have had to sit on the bench you know Lewis Skelly in particular hasn't had many big big opportunities um and you know i think it it was a game for those guys who maybe have been i mean they're not they're not even on the fringes of things but maybe haven't had the big game moments to go and actually go play you know to go and play against the best one of the best teams in europe and and show that they too are also capable of delivering a performance in personal colors and i i i think almost to a man they did that last night i think i don't think there was anybody who really played below their their level i really was very very impressed um and like i said like the the the aggression was on show immediately like the whistle went and what we had two shots blocked in the first minute there was another cross that came in in the second minute it was just um it was kind of like okay into show this is our we're going to show you our hand what have you got for us and um yeah i mean i i couldn't fault it and it just immediately i sat up in my seat and was kind of like, oh, okay, we're going to go for this then.

7:02And that's exactly what you want. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's, listen, I'm sure the intention for every game is to go out and play front, you know, on the front foot and to be aggressive and to maybe take control and maybe get the momentum early on. Football is weird. It doesn't always transpire that way. But I think last night, certainly we did that in terms of the energy that we showed in that opening period, in those opening few minutes. And ultimately that resulted in an early goal. I looked at this back and I looked obviously at parts of this game back this morning before we talked and William Saliba carrying the ball to the corner flag like some kind of giant winger.

7:39I mean, you don't normally see him there. Certainly not in the ninth minute of a game. Came back across the middle. Ebreche Eze actually is involved quite well in this as a nice combination, I think, with Leandro Trossard. Comes to Jury and Timber. Probably not the cleanest shot he'll ever take, but Gabriel Jesus is there, you know, to make sure that the ball goes home from close range. A kind of scrappy, but very effective fox-in-the-box kind of goal. Yeah, I mean, really well taken. I think what you say about Eze being involved and some of the interplay on the edge of the box, what we had there was like three or four players within about five yards of each other and a willingness to play.

8:19And, you know, I'm not sure we really saw that at all last weekend against Forest. It just wasn't the space and the, you know, maybe even the personnel to make that happen. And yeah, I mean, as for Jesus putting the ball on me, and it was just so instinctive. I mean, it's exactly where you want your striker to be, exactly how you want them to react. I mean, he looked so happy, didn't he? I mean, we know he's been through a lot, but he referenced it in his post-game interview about watching lots of Serie A football when he was a kid and playing in San Siro. And while he's played there before, Or, you know, it's nice for him to be able to tick it off his bucket list as a place where he's netted, especially with them about to knock it down.

9:01Yes. Well, I mean, we'll come back maybe to Jesus and his overall contribution because there's more to say about that. This game, you know, it played out a bit like a kind of one-off cup tie in a way that the momentum swung a little bit. You know, Inter got themselves back into it. There was some good defending, I think, from Mosquera at one point against Turam. And they had a moment and they had some pressure. Maybe there's a touch of good fortune in terms of the way that the ball breaks on the edge of the box. But, you know, they were causing us problems and they were stretching us, which kind of causes those kinds of opportunities to happen if you're the attacking side.

9:43I mean, it's a great hit. My one slight criticism of a player who, by the way, I thought was outstanding otherwise last night was Martin Zubimendi. I did wonder if he might go in for that a little more. I don't know if he was maybe anticipating the guy pulling the ball back inside him or whatever. But I think, you know, there's just a moment where I feel like he could do a little bit more to block that shot. But the finish is really, really good. It felt like if Inter got through our really aggressive high press, there was a bit of a gap there for them to exploit, right? And they charged forward quite a few times in the middle of that first half.

10:21I think that was sort of slightly a personnel thing, but also we needed to tweak something, which we certainly did in the second half. But, you know, you always wonder sometimes with Marino that if they get through him, you're not going to see him charging back at 100 miles an hour because he just doesn't really have that in the tank. And yeah, look, I mean, it was a goal. It was one of those ones where you kind of thought, oh God, you know, first proper effort and it's gone straight in the top corner. Here we go. You know, they didn't really change the momentum in the game. It kind of just felt like we both kept swinging punches at each other.

10:57And, you know, that was good to see as well. I thought, as you say, Mascara, even in the build-up to the goal, had made a really good block. I thought, you know, he'd actually, he just looked so comfortable immediately, given that this was, what, his first start in a couple of months since the injury. You know, we'd just throw him in the deep end at the San Siro and just say, go on then, here's a couple of top-class strikers for you to go to the Marshall. And it was quite, I think, challenging for Saliba and Mosquera at times because you could see maybe in build-up the way that we were trying to deal with the fact that they were playing with two up front, basically, Martinez and Turam, meant that the two central defenders were way further apart than they normally are.

11:40like if it's Saliba and Gabriel, maybe it's tailored to the opposition, but that was certainly a challenge for both of those guys. And I think Turam, before we scored the second goal, had a moment again where they broke over the top and it came to him at the back post. I think, you know, Mascara did quite well to sort of hold them up a bit and they didn't take advantage of that. But, you know, it's one of those moments where maybe the game swings the other way. A couple of minutes later, it is 2-1 to Arsenal. Saka drives into the box, gets a corner, takes a very un-Saka-like corner. I was like, what's going on here?

12:21He sort of lofted it to the back post. Leandro Trossard heads it back, hits the bar, falls for Gabriel Jesus, another poacher's goal. Yeah, I mean, the corner looked unorthodox, but finding trossard at the back post isn't unusual we've certainly used that before and scored from it i kind of vaguely remember was there you know it's fallen more at his feet rather than asking him to to kind of head the ball but he um he did i mean did an amazing job i did wonder at one point whether the ball had almost gone out on his side there because it loops so far they were claiming that i think yeah yeah and i mean i don't think there's any technology that would have been able to double check that they certainly didn't but i mean he um his effort actually sort of clips the bar, doesn't it?

13:04He sort of just brushes against the bar and falls perfectly into Jesus' path. And, you know, Jesus couldn't miss from there. It kind of, again, it's just about being in the right place, isn't it? Jokka has scored a not too dissimilar goal, didn't he? Just sort of being on the line against Atletico, I think it was, where it sort of came off his Johnson. Yeah, I mean, and again, you know, I found it funny with Jesus because the first thing he did was sort of turn to the assistant referee just to check, see if that was going to be allowed. And I think he did that with the first goal as well. He's almost like he's so panicked about the idea of running off and doing a Richarlison, only to find that it's been disallowed.

13:45So he, yeah, it was, you know, it's exactly what you want from him. It really well worked. I mean, I do find it amazing that we just keep finding different ways to score, you know, from corners. From set pieces, yeah. Keep finding ways to kind of compound like even really top class opposition, opposition that pride themselves on their defences. So, yeah, it's just such a great thing to be able to crack open a game with. Inter did have more moments. There was a break when we gave the ball away high up the pitch. And I think it's there right back. Luis Enrique, Henrique. He is he's quick, that guy.

14:23And he fired a shot not too far wide. Raya had to make a save as well, didn't he, from DiMarco. And we get to halftime, though it's 2-1. And, you know, this is maybe the second half, not quite as action-packed as the first half. There was a chance for Eze on his left foot, where maybe I thought he could put his laces through it. He tried a side-footed effort. He had one in the first half where he sort of dragged it wide. I think Trossard was involved. He dragged the shot wide. But this one, he just tried to place it, I think, when maybe he could have put his foot through it a little bit. I mean, what did you make of Eze in this game?

15:01He came off after, what, about an hour, just a little bit over an hour. Didn't look particularly happy at coming off. But I think on reflection, my initial view of his performance was, I'm not quite sure he was involved as much as I would like. But I think he was more active than I had first thought, having watched stuff back. I was a little bit surprised given the schedule, given how little he's played, given the fact Zubimendi's starting again, that maybe he came off at that moment. Was that a bit of a surprise for you? It wasn't a major surprise. I think I was maybe not expecting it. I thought maybe if he was going to be replaced, he'd be replaced by Erdegaard.

15:46I think that was where my surprise lay. you know I think with Eze we're still sort of coming to terms with who he is in Arsenal shirt and understanding that who he is with us is different to who he was with Palace you know you always watched in the highlights videos of Palace he's always on the ball and he's always dribbling he's taking risks and he's sort of taking shots and he's obviously just not on the ball nearly as much at Arsenal and he's not I guess taking many as many risks but I think maybe that's kind of to do with who we are as a team. Arteta is not a manager who wants his players to take unnecessary risks.

16:24He wants players who sort of understand when probability are in their favor, you know, when a risky pass is worth it and, you know, when it's not. And I think Eze is learning the rules at Arsenal, which is when he needs to retain the ball, when he needs to recycle possession. So we're seeing him kind of balance the old version of himself that wants to make things happen and the new version of himself, which is learning the ropes at Arsenal and trying to be that version contained within a set of parameters that the manager absolutely forces upon all of his players. So, you know, there is no room for a total maverick.

17:06But when, when Isaiah gets it right, you know, when he's really vibing with the team, we'll get a Spurs performance out of him, you know? But some days I think the space just won't be there because not everybody is as ropey as Spurs. There's an understatement. I think there's a certain, I think we can rightly sort of look at maybe the Jack Grealish City situation and kind of go, okay, there is a loose, brilliant, skillful player who's gone to work in a much more technical system. You know, how did that work out? Well, actually, he was very, very effective and they won a lot of trophies because you get some magic moments out of them.

17:47It did take a while though, didn't it? It did take a while. The first season was not particularly effective for Jack Grealish, whereas the second, I think maybe it was the second or the third season, he really got to grips with what Pep wanted from him. I think maybe we're seeing a little bit of that with Eze. At least I hope so, because he hasn't just become a terrible footballer. And I don't believe that it's a confidence issue with him. I feel like it's a processing issue. He is balancing old versus new. And I think we'll get there. I mean, I think he's a fine player. And I think in this second half of the season, I'm really expecting to see a bit more of him.

18:26Fingers crossed. Big chance for Bukayo Saka, set up by Gabriel Jesus with a lovely pass. He just delayed the shot. He should have taken a little bit earlier. That could easily have been a goal for him. But it gives us a chance to talk about both of those players. Let me talk Saka first. I thought he was relentless last night in terms of trying to make things happen. And the way he drove down the right-hand side, I think he put in nine crosses slash cutbacks last night. You know, that tells you, you know, what he was trying to provide for others. I see people talk about Bakayosaki and say he's too selfish.

19:06He tries to score all the time. There's a chance where he burst through and shot with his left foot. Didn't get the curl on it, put it wide. but I don't think you can ever accuse Bakayo Saka of not wanting to create for others and create chances for others. There's a good reason why in the last few years he has been our top assist maker, season after season. It is because A, of where he plays, but B, what he tries to do from those positions. I thought he was really excellent last night. I thought DeMarco had a tough time with him, particularly early on. Looked like they've got to grips with him a little bit.

19:41and then all of a sudden he's drifting in field. He's moving into more central areas. You know, they doubled up on him on the right, so he moved inside and became effective there, as this chance showed, which I think, you know, if he had it back, he'd take that shot a bit earlier and probably will score. So I really enjoyed Saka's performance. I know the numbers, you know, haven't been where we need them to be or want them to be, but I maintain that there is an influence that he brings to this team that few others really can. I thought he was superb. I mean, I think I messaged you towards the end of the first half and said, I'm getting Henri tormenting into 304 vibes.

20:21You know, he was a guy who was really enjoying himself, wanted the ball, didn't matter whether he was going to cut inside, go outside DeMarco. Like, he just knew he had him on toast. And they looked nervous around him. I think, you know, they didn't really know how to deal with a guy who was being so direct. But, you know, you watch Saka in that mood and this is no disrespect to Noni Mariewaki, who's been really interesting to watch, I think, since he came in the side. But like, it's the consistency with which Saka does stuff. You know, every time he gets on the ball, something happens. Okay, the ball may not end up at an Arsenal player's feet in the box when he puts in a cross, but the cross might deliver a corner.

21:03The cross might, you know, make it into a dangerous area. you know he's just he's relentless and i thought last night again it was another feather in his cap you know there's a guy who goes on to the big big stage and stepped it up a little bit i think i think he really enjoyed that as he did at the you know the burn about last yeah last year you know he just took it to another level and said i own this game um i haven't checked the stats but does does he end up the game with an assist yes he does he gets an assist you know that was the I mean, it says something about, you know, the stats, doesn't it?

21:36That he did all of that and the assist ends up being something he didn't mean whatsoever and knew nothing about. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it was really impressive from Saka. And, yeah, I mean, I think he's obviously, I think he really trusted Jesus to be in certain positions as well. There were certain, like, you know, moments when he was like, okay, I'm going to force this. I think he'll be there. I think he'll be there. And Jésus seemed to really enjoy it. The only two players who had more touches of the ball last night than Bakao Saka were Martin Zubomendi and William Saliba, which, you know, for a winger tells you a lot.

22:18You know, they can often be very effective but low-touch players, certainly in comparison to central midfielders and central defenders. So it tells you quite a lot about, A, how Saka played, and B, how Arsenal played and what the focus was on getting the ball forward to him. So, yeah, the assist for Jacarez, which we'll come to now in a second, yeah, a little bit accidental, but, you know, one in the eye for all those people who say he hates Jacarez and never passes to Jacarez. I mean, look, you could see the celebration. I'll come to that. But you could see in the celebration that, you know, this is just online garbage, really, you know, pop psychology stuff that has no bearing in reality.

23:04But Arteta did make more changes. There was a really interesting battle at the back, I guess, when Inter made a change. They brought on this guy, Esposito, who really challenged Christian Mosquera for about 15 minutes. And it was quite fun to watch because you wouldn't have seen it. But on Premier Sports here in Ireland, they had Gary Breen doing the co-commentary and he's a central defender and was talking a little bit about how Mascara was just too tight to Esposito, particularly around the time where he got that shot away in the box and it just went wide. But I thought it was a really fascinating kind of battle between two fairly raw young players, two 20-year-olds, right, who are learning the game that was fun for me I kind of enjoyed that aspect of it I know we're 2-1 up but I kind of like seeing those individual battles develop over the course of a game Mikel Arteta decided okay I need to put this young guy in his place so he brought on Gabriel to buffet him around a bit and I think as soon as Gabriel came on this guy's effectiveness diminished in a big way as you would expect but that little battle between Mascara and Esposito was fun Yeah, I suppose Kivri probably chucked on Esposito and said, go and ruffle a few feathers.

24:30And Muschera immediately went, I'm not having any of that. And the two of them, I mean, there were maybe two or three times that Muschera went straight out the back of him. I think he was possibly lucky not to, you know, get a booking for one of them. And it was at that point that maybe Arteta made up his mind and said, we're going to send on big brother. And, you know, Gabriel was asked to go and fill in for the last 15 minutes and just marshal things. But, you know, as I said before, I'm just so impressed by Muscara because on the ball, there's such a willingness to hold and to set the tempo and to kind of assess his options.

25:09He's never really worried about being under pressure. And I think that really brings a level of authority and calm straight away in a way that, you know, maybe some other, I put back up in inverted commas, centre backs in the past maybe haven't been able to do that. He does have that authority. And I think he's going to be an absolute monster when he fills out a bit because he still looks pretty skinny. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, the, the battle with Esposito, I mean, I, I did wonder whether they had history. It was so kind of like violent, you know, they really went at each other. But I had a little look and it doesn't look like they've played against each other, even under 21 level or anything like that.

25:49But yeah, I mean, great to have Mascara back. And I imagine we'll see quite a bit of him now because, you know, with options slightly tight there at the back, rotating people in and out over the coming weeks is really, really important. So fingers crossed he stays fit. He had the best pass completion of any Arsenal defender last night, which goes into what you're saying. And when you're playing alongside William Saliba, by the way, that tells you a little bit about the way that he performed. And Jesus, we already talked on, we're going to get to Yacarez now in a second. But Jesus, was this the kind of performance that plays him into the team for Sunday?

26:31Because beyond the two goals, I think his overall performance was really, really impressive. The way the ball stuck to him, the way he was able to keep control of it in tight spaces, bring others into play, created that chance for Bakayo Saka. like people talk about you know rotation a way of resting players but it's also an opportunity for players it's an opportunity let's say for a player to come in in a position where we've been having some issues this season I don't think it's unreasonable to say that that's the case and to really stake a claim with a performance that gives the manager confidence let's say going into a big game against Manchester United, if he's done that away at Inter, what can he do when we play Manchester United at home on Sunday?

27:19Is this a... I mean, it felt a bit like the Jesus of old. You know, that kind of beautiful three-month period in early, what was it, 2022, when he first came in and was outstanding. Really, really outstanding before he had that injury at the World Cup and everything else. it was a bit of a throwback to that for me. And look, it's one game, don't want to over-index it, don't want to say he's back and this is what we're going to get from him every time. But I think if Mikel Arteta was looking at this game and saying, right, I want him to give me a problem, I want him to give me really something to think about when I pick him against Inter, he did exactly that.

28:02Yeah, I mean, look, he looks like he's playing with some freedom since he's returned from the injury, almost as if he's been given a second chance, In all the interviews, he seems to sort of frame it that way almost, as if he kind of genuinely did wonder whether he'd ever get back to this level. The way I look at Jesus is like almost every time he scores, it's like someone flips an hourglass. You can almost see the relief, like the clock resets and it buys him time. It buys him the freedom to be who he wants to be on the pitch. But that freedom never lasts, right? You see the sand going down and down and down.

28:45And the only way to preserve that freedom is to score another goal to kind of reboost the confidence, leave it too long. The pressure returns into every part of his game. He tightens up, he clams up. So if he could just keep scoring, we've got a real player on our hands. But I mean, I would 100 % start him against Manchester United. I think we saw that last year, right? Well, it was probably actually the end of 24, wasn't it? When he scored the hat-trick against Crystal Palace in the Carabao Cup out of nothing. And it was the classic Arteta sort of stuck him in against Crystal Palace a couple of days later because he was in a good emotional state.

29:23I think we 100 % have to take advantage of that because he's just flipped the hourglass. And, you know, he's feeling a little bit free right now. Let's put him in. Let's put him in, see how he goes. I think the only caveat to that is kind of balancing the load going through his body, right? Because we obviously don't want him to have a relapse or anything. But I'd definitely be tempted to play him against United. I felt like the sort of extra few minutes he got last night when he could have come off, let's say, around the time of Ezeo or around, you know, 60, 65 minutes. I think it was 75 minutes when he came off.

30:03It felt to me a little bit like, okay, we're going to look and see and see if we can get some more minutes into him, see how far we can push him a little bit here. But he did make those changes. Gabriel came on. Victor Jokeres came on. And Jokeres scored the third goal. I mean, this is an outstanding pass from Gabriel Martinelli. Inter had a corner. I think it came to Martinelli in the box. He took it on, like absolute credit to Jacarez as well, by the way, who made an instant run from just outside our box and looked for that ball and looked for the pass. And boy, oh boy, did Martinelli deliver that pass with the outside of his foot and in a weird kind of shape as well.

30:45It didn't look like he'd be able to get the power on that pass to get it over the halfway line. And Jacarez took it on, maybe unselfishly looked for Saka, sort of clipped Saka's heels, broke nicely for Jacarez. And the finish is really good, slightly disappointing. The keeper gets a hand to it, but I don't think you can argue too much about, you know, what he did with that moment. It's sort of instinctive. It's exactly what you want a striker to do in that position. Yeah, the finish was lovely and he really, really enjoyed it. I mean, I think if he's been slightly reticent to pull out the mask celebration with some of the goals recently, there was absolutely no hesitation this time.

31:26It was like straight on, right, running straight to the corner flag in front of the Arsenal. I mean, he absolutely loved it. And, you know, his teammates really, really enjoyed it as well. I think, yeah, there was something very Yokeres about this little cameo. It was almost like everything about him in the 15 minutes, right? There he was attempting to make the pass to Saka and it didn't quite come off. But then he found an instinctive finish. And then obviously he had another chance to score and he made the space and he blasted it over the bar. And it sort of popped the bubble a little bit. There you were thinking, oh, he's found the magic potion and hasn't.

32:03It was kind of back to Messi with a Y rather than Messi with an I, wasn't it? But he's an intriguing player. You really want to like him. But you also, your eyes don't really deceive you. I mean, he's sort of, he's just, he's a real, he clashes style-wise with so many of the players in that team. But look, I think I said, and many of us said, if he can get 15, 20 goals this season, we'd probably call that a success. And if those goals happen to be against smaller sides, so be it. Well, I think he's on nine now, you know, so heading towards double figures. And this is the thing about this goal.

32:52You know, I was critical of him at the weekend against Forrest and I don't think that was unreasonable criticism. But I also think, you know, credit where it's due, the run was good, the finish was excellent. and I think there's something more because people were saying to me, oh, did you forget about his goal and assist against Chelsea? And it's like, no, I didn't forget about the goal and an assist against Chelsea. But the goal against Chelsea, look, he's in the right place, but it's a howler from the goalkeeper and he has to put it over the line from three inches or whatever it is. And the assist, yes, it's a nice layoff in the box to Martin Zubimendi, but Zubimendi does a lot and the finish is great.

33:30It's not like Phil Foden putting it on a plate for Eber Echeza, let me tell you. So, you know, I don't mean to dismiss what he did against Chelsea, but I think this goal for him, not for me or you or anyone listening, I think this goal for him will be far more beneficial than a scrappy tap-in against Chelsea or the assist against Chelsea because it is away from home. It is against Inter, who are, what, Serie A leaders, right? it is on the big stage in Europe Champions League everyone's watching he's come off the back of a poor performance against Nottingham Forest and then he's delivered that and I think you're right you know to say about the way he celebrated that goal meant more to him than the goal against Chelsea you know I know it's a semi-final it's a cup competition etc etc but I think for if we're looking at things that will benefit him in terms of his own confidence his own belief and hopefully his own performance levels that's another one where where you've got to sort of take the maximum from that particular strike, right?

34:38Yeah. I mean, there's very clear and obvious room for improvement with Jokeres. And I guess when you throw him on as a substitute with 15 minutes to go, you're laying down the gauntlet to him and saying, what can you do for me? And in this instance, he proved that he can do things. And I think Arteta did reference, he's had two very good away performances in a row. So I guess the 15 minutes here and the game against Chelsea, that's something to build on, I guess. That's the challenge for him now is to see whether he can maintain that. And the funny thing is, he may not get another start at the weekend.

35:18He may have to come off the bench and be that guy because of Jesus' performance. performance but if the two of them can keep willing each other on to another level while Havertz is also getting up to speed I mean that is exactly exactly what we wanted you know I'm not saying that it was done to you know we were deliberately timing things so these guys would all be back for the for the run-in as it were I mean we'd been hoping for more from Jokeres from the from the outset of the season we didn't expect Havertz to be out all this time but But, you know, we need goals in this final bit of the season.

35:56We need everyone firing and we need to take chances. And this can only be good for the team. Yeah, 100%. I thought it was nice as well for Jesus, you know, on a night where the spotlight would have been well and truly on him, you know, to take a moment to acknowledge the goal for Jokeres and that, you know, this is a goal that could do him good. For any striker, goals are the currency, right? and if you haven't been scoring, then people are going to be on your back. And when you do, things get quiet. So let's hope it's really, really quiet in terms of that kind of discussion about Jokeres and Jesus and Havertz.

36:31Speaking of which, before we just sort of address the wider implications of this win, I did wonder if last night might have been an opportunity to get 15, 20 minutes into the legs of Kai Havertz. because he has been out for so long and he does need to get match fit and he does need to get up to speed. And we can talk about the benefit for Jokeres in scoring that goal, but you could probably make an argument that, you know, given how much football we could contend with between now and May, if you were planning a sub, Havertz rather than Jokeres might well have been the one to go with if you're taking Jesus off because you can get those minutes in.

37:16And so it does make me wonder a little bit if Kai Havertz isn't quite as ready as people might hope. People have put a lot of stock in his return and what he might bring to the team. But I do think based on what we saw last night, there's probably quite a bit of caution being paid to his return, managing his load, managing his ability to ease his way back into action, shall I say. And his presence in the squad is probably about that kind of reintegration, reintegration of a character, a popular guy in the team, rather than somebody who is absolutely ready to play and play significant minutes at this point, you know?

38:04Yeah, I mean, I think I heard someone say pre-game that if Arsenal made the final of every competition they're in, plus the Premier League, it's a 65-game season. And yesterday was game number 34. So there is a lot of football ahead, right? And there's a World Cup on the horizon. And Kai Havertz is definitely going to want to be at that World Cup with Germany. And I think given that we tried to get him fit for the start of the season, and he ended up suffering a load issue that went through the knee, I think we are being deadly cautious with him because there's a lot on the line for him, right?

38:42It's not just short-term minutes for Arsenal. It's his international place as well. And I know that Arteta wouldn't frame it that way because he doesn't want the players thinking about a tournament that isn't anything to do with us. But I think he feels responsible for easing the guy in. And with Jays, who's playing well, and, you know, Jokeres has grabbed a couple of goals now, it does maybe ease that pressure a little bit as well. So it's not an issue at the moment for me. I think there will be plenty of minutes. You know, we've got Kyra next week. I mean, I think that's got Habert's name all over it, right?

39:18And we can start to build him up from there. So, yeah, let's see how we go. I mean, I'm sure he's absolutely chomping at the bit to play regular football. But I think there's a long, long way to go. a lot on the line, trophies, everything. So we'll see Kai Havertz. I'm sure he'll play a part this season. No, for sure. But, you know, I just thought, it just occurred to me that that was, you know, an opportunity to give him minutes and maybe he's not quite as ready as we would like him to be yet. But like you say, a long way to go. Would you reckon maybe send him out on loan for the second half of the season?

39:56No, I can't see that happening, to be honest. We will come to that. Obviously, there's a player around whom there is that discussion at this moment in time. I did want to just sort of touch on maybe what we referenced earlier and Arsenal's European stature and the perception of this Arsenal team around Europe right now. Leaders of the Premier League, out in front in the Champions League, seven wins from seven in the tournament this season. And it means that we have secured, at the very least, a top two finish. And because of the way the new format works, that means that we would get a home second leg in every knockout game all the way to the final, if we make that kind of progress, which is a great advantage.

40:51but just sort of coming back on that has our European prowess surprised you you know did you think it might take a season or two or maybe a bit more there might be a bit more fluctuation in form like I know in this new league format you're you're not always playing brilliant teams but we've gone away to athletic club we've beaten Atletico Madrid we've beaten Bayern Munich we've beaten Inter away. You know, those are some big names. And look, you don't get anything for winning all of your group stage or league stage games. But it does help you set down a marker about, you know, how you are perceived as a team, your seriousness, your quality, all of those things, which go back to what I was talking about with regards to Mikel Arteta and the way that he would approach a game like this, understanding that he needs to and wants to make some changes and to keep some players fresh for the big game on Sunday, but at the same time desperate to win away at Inter.

41:56You know, it's one of the big clubs in Europe. It's one of the great grounds in Europe, even if it is falling down a little bit or is due to be knocked down, as he said. But, you know, there is probably a perception of Arsenal right now in European football that, you know, maybe many people wouldn't have expected at this point. you know having only been back in the tournament there's only our third season back in it I think the thing that's really impressed me the last two seasons in the group phase has just been the consistency like the ability to in midweek turn up and put in a very very decent performance right I mean but I think some of that comes down to the fact that the players are really really enjoying this tournament this competition and the oppositions that they go up against right like if the day-to-day stuff is a bit of a grind, there definitely seems to be more enjoyment that comes going up against rivals who fancy their chances of taking Arsenal 1 in a different style, right?

42:57That European teams play against us differently than Premier League teams do. There are many Premier League teams. I'm not saying they don't show us the same level of respect, but I think in the Premier League, we've got to a point where there's so much money, there's so many quality players, tactically managers are very, very astute, even the, you know, everything foundationally from the sports science upwards, the Premier League is on another level at the moment. And while you're always going to get some surprise results like Bodo Glimp beating Man City, by and large, Premier League teams with their money and their expenditures should be dominating and they have been.

43:30And I think what we're seeing is the strength of the Premier League is playing into a reset of where we kind of like sit in the grand scheme of things, right? We were so used to rolling over the middle and lower teams in the Premier League 25 years ago and then going into Europe and struggling because the level was different. But now what we're seeing is the Premier League is so competitive week in, week out, that when we go into Europe, we're actually finding that some of these opponents maybe aren't quite as good as their league table position in their own looks. And yeah, I mean, it's, I think Arteta has done very, very well at drumming that into the players, that if we can be top of the Premier League by seven points, when you go into Europe, you are top of the best league in the whole of Europe.

44:24So you are the best team. You know, you should go and win this. Go and show people you should win this. and that's really quite something I think you can see the process we've been on, like I felt the first year back in the Champions League, bit of a free hit, really enjoyed the group stage, fell down against Bayern Munich because we didn't quite have enough, we didn't have a big enough squad really last year obviously we didn't fantastically well to get to where we did given the injuries but I think in retrospect you're able to kind of frame all of those injuries and show to the players, look how well we did with kids on the bench at the end, Kieran Tierney at left wing.

45:05We were in the semifinals of the Champions League. I mean, Inter were in the final of the Champions League last year. And it's so frustrating that we could have, you know, we were the width of the post and Donnarumma's arm from facing them in a final and probably winning the Champions League, right? So I do think that the fact that Inter were in the final and lost to PSG, got hammered, whatever it was, there was a little bit of us being able to go, okay, well, we've beaten the finalists now. This is what we couldn't want. So, yeah, we're looking good. You know, Liverpool were looking fantastic this time last year as well.

45:39So I don't think you can take anything for granted in this competition. We could get a tough draw. You know, the home away stuff, I'm a bit kind of take it or leave it. It's nice in that I think it may be, I can't remember, I think someone said something like the games, the way they fall now mean that after away games, we'll have a home game in the Champions League. Sorry, on the domestic front. So that's quite good. But anything can happen with the draw. We just need to keep balancing things. I mean, the good thing is we don't have to worry about the Champions League now for a few weeks. I mean, obviously the Kairac game, we can play the stiffs.

46:14We can find any. I don't think there are any stiffs at Arsenal. And then, yeah, we've got other matters to attend to before the knockout stuff. Yeah, and hopefully make it eight from eight. And that's the kind of record that Arteta will be looking for and demanding. I think he will make a lot of changes for that Kyra game. It'd be amazing if we lost to the bottom side in the last game at home. No, that's not who we are anymore, Andrew. Well, you know. We can't accept that. We can't accept that. So look, you know, it is, I think, slightly under the radar a little bit, you know, what Arsenal have been doing.

46:51The consistency that you mentioned is, you know, is a big, big thing. And this is, you know, this is sort of bringing it back around to how people feel about Arsenal right now. You know, this is the objective evidence that Arsenal are a really fucking good team, right? Where we are in Europe, who we've beaten in Europe, what we're doing in Europe and what we're doing in the Premier League at the same time. while also, by the way, making it to the semifinals of the Carabao Cup, which felt like something that impeded us last season. And that hasn't been the case this time around. So it's very, very encouraging.

47:26I enjoyed this from, I'm guessing it was the coverage on Amazon, Wayne Rooney talking about Mikel Arteta after Mikel Arteta had obviously come out and spoken to them. He's got an aura about him, and he's scary. You used to say that. You look at him and you know he's on it. With every player, every single day, he will be on it and wanting the best out of them players. So he's got that aura about him, and I hope he does well and wins. He's high energy. Quite funny, I think, that Wayne Rooney, who played for so long under Alex Ferguson, is looking at Mikel Arteta and saying, he's scary. like very different characters from between you know obviously Arteta and Ferguson but that transmits in a post-game interview where Arsenal have won 3-1 away from home and Wayne Rooney standing there thinking this guy's actually scary he's so intense he's so driven you know it's hard to look beyond that as the reason or at least one of the main reasons why Arsenal are where we are right now and we're as good as we are, you know, like I just said, in Champions League, Carabao Cup and Premier League.

48:43Yeah, it amused me because obviously Wayne Rooney has been a manager recently, you know, and I think he was maybe looking at Arteta and realising the gap between where his managerial career has been so far and where Arteta's is at the moment and kind of going, oh shit, like this is where you have to be to drive performances out of a team every day, every week, every game, you know. But, yeah, I mean, Arteta is scary. I think anybody who's sat in a press conference with him and seen those eyes narrow when he gets a question he doesn't like and he sort of holds the stare a second longer and then he gives a very sort of short, pithy answer.

49:25And then smiles at you like he's been waiting in the shadows for you to come around the corner. Exactly. Although having said that, I do think he won some hearts and minds last night. He was asked a question in Italian, replied in fluent Italian. That was pre-game. Yeah. Pre-game. And after. Oh, after as well. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, he speaks a lot. He speaks Spanish, Catalan, Uscara, which is the Basque language. He speaks French from being a PSG, speaks Portuguese, speaks Italian, speaks English, can also speak Scottish as well from his time out. He's found more languages to bollock players in, hasn't he?

50:02Yeah, absolutely. The vocabulary at his disposal is incredible. No wonder Rooney finds him scary and intense and that Rooney could barely master English. Anyway, look, a good night for Arsenal. And, you know, I think the kind of result and the kind of performance that if you are going to play a midweek game ahead of a big, big game at home at the weekend against Manchester United. It's exactly what you want. It's exactly what you want. Tuesday gives you that extra day or so to rest as well. And we can turn our attention towards Manchester United a little bit later in the week. I did, before we go, want to talk a little bit about Ethan Warneri because yesterday there was a report from David Ornstein that Marseille were interested in taking Ethan Weneri on loan.

50:54Mikel Arteta was asked about it in his post-game press conference last night. This is what he had to say. Well, we certainly have to assess the situation. Obviously, Ethan is not playing the minutes that probably he deserves and needs at his age. So we're going to sit down this week, address the situation, give everybody's opinion. And at the end, we will make the decision that we believe is the best one for the player because we have a massive talent there and we really need to look after it. Interesting there that he said he's maybe not getting the minutes he deserves or needs. And I think that's probably the bigger issue, isn't it?

51:28Minutes that he needs at 18 years of age. David Ornstein's reporting suggested that there is a stylistic fit with Marseille in terms of the football that Roberto De Zerbi plays and kind of maybe how they want to develop Ethan Wynary and what kind of a player they want him to be. At the same time, you know, people look at Marseille and look at some of the players there and some of the characters there and think, is that the right environment for Ethan? Any thoughts on that? Is that a big consideration for you? I mean, surely it's something that the club have thought about, you know, and haven't dismissed that potential move because of any concerns they might have in that regard.

52:13I guess it's a balancing act really, isn't it? Because you need to send him to a place where you think he's going to get minutes and it needs to also be competitive. It needs to be at a level where you think he's going to learn something. I think under Roberto Deserbe, you've got a guy who, you know, likes a high press, likes intense football, likes fast transitions. there's a you know i can see stylistically how that would that would be appealing and um i don't i don't i don't worry too much about the other characters in the dressing room because really you know it is what it is right you get you can go and play anywhere and find that there are all in in the dressing room i mean who's he got he's got neil mopay he's got he's got pierre-america Aubameyang.

53:04He's got Mason Greenwood, obviously we know about. There's Hoiberg who was at Spurs. I mean, they've got some kind of, they've got some big names, some controversial names, but I don't really think any of that is going to massively matter. I think what matters is that Ethan gets some playing time and that he learned something new. I mean, he's been in and around the Arsenal football team, first team for what, three, four years now? I mean, it's crazy. He's sort of 18 and a bit. He made his debut at 15. He was training with the team before then. I don't think it's a bad thing to go out and experience something new.

53:41Get out of your comfort zone. He'll certainly be out of his comfort zone in Marseille. The fans are absolute nutcases. The atmosphere will be incredible. They are, I think, about eight points off the top. Lon's a leading, PSG a second. So Marseille have got some work to do there. I mean, he could make himself a hero if he goes in there makes a real impact. They're just about to sign Jurian Timber's brother, I think, as well. Yeah, he's had enough of Robin Van Persie, so decided to leave. So I think it's a good move for Ethan. I'm really curious to see how he does. I mean, you just hope it makes him rather than breaks him, because I think if he went there and something, you know, for whatever reason, it didn't work out, he ended up on the bench and he didn't play and then he comes back to Arsenal, then suddenly you get another layer of questioning about, okay, well, he still needs to go out and get some more game time.

54:34But is that not just the trajectory that you have to undertake as a young player and as a fledgling footballer? He's standing too high. Yeah, exactly. The cream has to rise to the top and this is the challenge for him now, right? The standards have gone up. He had to prove that he can cope. Yeah, I think, you know, I think obviously William Saliba can tell him a bit about Marseille as well, having spent time there. I think Arteta will be really big on two things. first of all is playing time and getting minutes. And if he's going to play in a system that allows what they think the best qualities of Ethan Weneri are to develop, then regardless of who else is in that dressing room, I think it's a good move for Ethan.

55:14And he needs to play. And there's no point in him playing a few minutes here or there for the rest of this season when he could go out and develop. The other thing I think Arteta will be really big on, and I'm quite curious about this, and maybe it might be something that somebody asks him in a press conference. You know, Arteta is a kid who at 18 years of age decided to leave Barcelona to go and play for PSG. And he's, you know, as we said, he's been back in Spain and then he left Spain to go to Scotland, you know, to play in the SPL for Rangers before coming to England, etc, etc. So I think Arteta will be really big on the life experience for Ethan Wannery, to accept that right now in this team, there are so many good players that his playing time at a really early stage in his career is not going to be where he would like it to be.

56:06and now the challenge is go somewhere else and play and learn and develop and maybe learn the language a bit and learn about being away from home as you say out of your comfort zone and you know dealing with a different kind of pressure from different fans who you know are not backwards about coming forwards when they want to those Marseille fans so if it goes through I think it could be a really really positive thing for Ethan Ranieri so we'll see how that develops Yeah good luck to him All right, we better leave it there and get this pod out to everybody. Andrew, thank you very much indeed. My pleasure.

56:40Lovely to chat. Speak soon.

56:44Thank you very much indeed to Andrew. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at aallensport.arseblog.com. That is at aallensport.arseblog.com. So there you go. Arsenal in great shape in the Champions League. Attention will turn this weekend, obviously, to the Premier League and to Manchester United at home. That is a game we'll talk about a bit more over on our Patreon on Friday. We do a preview podcast for every Premier League game, and you can sign up for that at patreon.com forward slash arseblog. You get access to that and everything we do on Patreon, as well as supporting all the stuff that we do on arseblog that we give you for free anyway, including the Arsecast, Arsecast Extra, Arsewomen Arsecast, the daily blog, the columns, the news site, all of that.

57:29It can't operate without your support, and we really do appreciate those of you who are on board already. If you fancy signing up, like I said, it's just$6 a month plus VAT or sales tax wherever you are in the world where that's applicable. And if you do have any questions about any of it, you can always get in touch by email. Of course, you can find contact details on the website. There's a contact form there that you can fill in and the email address is present there too. So I think that's just about that. We should get this podcast out to everybody to have a listen to. As ever, thank you so much indeed for being here, for listening, subscribing, downloading, sharing.

58:02And please, if you have two minutes and you'd like to give us a review on whatever podcast app you choose, whether it's Pocket Casts or Apple Podcasts or all of the ones that have the facility to provide a review, we would be very grateful for your five stars if that's how you feel about us. If you don't feel five star, that's okay. You just don't have to give us a review. But if you'd like to give us a review, we'd appreciate that very much indeed. Like I said, preview podcast on Patreon on Friday. For now, though, folks, take it easy and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers.

58:34Bye bye.

59:18Coach 보여 or whatever you think, I've been quite really excited that there is a coming

59:47Welcome back to Holy God FM, and what a fascinating interview that was about Greenland. Who knew that it was of such strategic importance? If you ask me, I think the only fair solution is a one-on-one fight. Mano a mano, so to speak. Let your man go to Greenland and fight a polar bear. And if he wins, well, fair's fair. We have a letter here from a listener who says, Dear Holy God FM, I couldn't help but notice last night that Arsenal won in the Champions League in no small part to Gabriel Jesus. Could it be coincidence that he is named after one of the archangels and indeed the Son of God? Does the man upstairs take note of such things?

1:00:33And if so, does this augur well for my own professional footballing career? Yours, Joseph Mary, Holy Ghost Heaven Well, Joseph, I wish it did work like that. But God, as we know, much like some random woman that Bono saw and wrote a song about, moves in mysterious ways, which would explain why Steve Devil is the leading scorer in the Lithuanian Premier League this season. Nevertheless, we wish you all the very best in your own footballing career. Now on Holy God FM, one of Ireland's great poets, Michal Muggerly, with a brand new work entitled The State of the World Right Now. Over to you, Michal.

1:01:25simply breathtaking