Episode 864 - Looking for the spark

0:23Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog, Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? I hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Today we're going to talk about Arsenal's 1-1 draw with Brentford on Thursday evening, a game in which I think we fell below expectations, and that's obviously disappointing, but on the other hand, it's a game that perhaps we might have returned to North London with zero points because, listen, Brentford made it very, very tough for us. They had some chances towards the end of the game. And despite an opportunity for Gabriel Martinelli to win it, Arsenal really didn't do enough or didn't create enough chances to go and win it, to respond to the fact that Brentford equalized after we'd gone ahead.

1:13So in equal measure, maybe not equal, actually, disappointment on one hand, relief on the other, which is the bigger hand? Is it disappointment? Is it relief? It's probably disappointment. But I think you have to recognize that we came up against good opposition. We didn't play well. Both of those things can be true at the same time. And the gap that was briefly nine points last weekend over Manchester City is now four points tighter than we would like, but still a decent position. So lots to talk about, lots to unpack and lots to discuss from this game and maybe what this game feeds into, how we've experienced this Arsenal season so far, some of the worries that I have and maybe you have as well.

1:59And with me this morning to discuss all of that and much more, I'm delighted to welcome back to the show the co-host of the Stadio podcast. It's Ryan Hunn. Good morning, Ryan. Good morning, Andrew. How are you? I'm okay. I went to bed last night feeling a bit down, I have to say. It took me a while to get to sleep. I woke up feeling a bit down, and I'm sort of trying to separate what I know intellectually with kind of how I feel emotionally, right? So I can look at that game of football last night and think, actually, the way that played out, Brentford with a long throw in the last couple of seconds of the game, which had sucker punch written all over it, to come away from a difficult away game with a point.

2:45You know, I can see how that's all right. I was glad of the point come the end of the whistle, but based on pregame expectations and what I was hoping Arsenal might do, there's an element of disappointment, obviously, because we're so hyper aware of the gap. We're minding the gap and the gap appears to be closing. And then this is not the first time that's happened this season where the gap is closed. And then in a couple of weeks, it all feels a bit different. So I'm a bit sort of all over the place. I don't know how you're feeling about it or what your experience of last night was, sort of a mix of like, ooh, and ooh, and ooh, and ooh.

3:24And then you come out with a 1-1 draw. Yeah, I think the difference between the hope and the expectation is interesting because the hope is that you win and it's six points still and everyone's fine. And it makes the next, what, eight days or nine days until the derby a little more chill. the expectation of the game and how it played out was exactly how i expected it to play out i thought it was a pretty grim game in general tough to watch not particularly enjoyable and just one of those nights where you look at the opposition and you you look at the way that arsenal are playing in the game and you look at a couple of lineup changes and i texted you tonight at halftime just a bit it's completely has nothing to do with anything but something always goes off on my radar when i'm aware and awake it and in addition to the awake it they have a an alternate an alternate sock or short combo and i'm just like this has got bad vibes read all over it do you remember that that run that arsenal had where they used to wear red shorts with the way i was just like no no no no no no hard no please like navy or something like that fine sure it's just an inbuilt thing where i'm like something bad is going to happen with this this kit comp it's too it's too unfamiliar and then when you have am i right in saying that they said it was the first time that back four is played together that specific combination of back four i think yeah quite possibly yeah and so with that all that kind of said all that happening i was just like yeah this kind of played out exactly how i expected it to play out yeah i mean listen i i thought this was going to be tough i thought brantford were going to make it very difficult for us with the structure and the intensity with which they play.

5:10They're really, really disciplined. I think I lost count of the amount of times that Arsenal had the ball in the Brentford half. But because of the efficiency or the organization of the Brentford press, we end up going back to the goalkeeper, which, you know, I get it. You recycle possession. I understand. But I think that was something that certainly Mikel Arteta would have been aware of and would have expected from Brentford. And I think you can say that Brentford did exactly what we thought they were going to do. But at the same time, particularly in that first half, Arsenal were nowhere near at the level we had hoped they would be at.

5:49So let's, I mean, let's talk about the team because Muscara, Christian Muscara came in for William Saliba, who was ill apparently. And on top of the absence of Kai Havertz that we learned about during the week. That's a bit of a blow. I think Mascara, you know, did really well, generally. But, you know, when you don't have Saliba and Gabriel together, there's, it feels less foundational, right? So you're worried about that kind of stuff. Matueke on the right, Trossard on the left, Jokeres up front, Eberache Eze in midfield ahead of Declan Rice and Martin Zubimendi. So, I mean, it all looked more or less what you would expect, but in terms of performance levels or what we got from the team in that first half, it really wasn't enough.

6:37I think, I don't know how you, I don't know how you view it. I mean, I was looking at this one, I was going to maybe leave Eza to a later point, but I think seeing as we're on him and it's the first half where he only lasted 45 minutes, it might be worth talking about him and what we're getting from him this season. And I don't think he did anything particularly wrong, but I looked at the touches at halftime and he'd had 17 touches of the ball. Jokeres had had 14. He's usually, for obvious reasons, the lowest touch Arsenal player, but everyone else is in the high 20s, the 30s, some of them in the 40s.

7:18So it kind of felt like it passed him by, like he was peripheral. and I don't quite know how, whether that role isn't right for him or whether we need to put him in the team with different players. How do you view what's going on with Eze so far this season? My honest answer is just I don't really know. I can't fully figure it out because he's so gifted and we've seen glimpses of his brilliance this season. I wonder if there's a little bit of a confidence issue that hit him after the Villa game. And also because it felt like quite a public taking out of the team that from Arteta. You know, like everyone knew why and everyone, I feel like that plays on the, that will play on a player's mind for sure.

8:10Especially when, I think especially with a transfer like Ezes where it was so emotional, it meant so much to him, it meant so much to the fan base. and there was nothing but positivity around that entire transfer. It was a no-brainer. It was the kind of transfer that as fans you want to experience as often as you can, right? It was the whole unity around the transfer was unbelievable. Yeah, I think you were on the pod. I think yourself and Musa were on the pod. Yeah, we were talking about it, yeah. And then you throw into the mix the hat trick in the North London derby at home. and it's a historic hat trick as well.

8:50Not a lot of players have done that and you think, right, it's kind of clicked. And I think if you, it's obviously easy to do this in hindsight, but if you step back and think about probably the most fun or fluid parts of the season from an Arsenal point of view, it was around that time, I think. Maybe that combined with the Bayern game. I know the Chelsea draw came soon after, but around that time, it felt like and this has been a common I'm deviating from Eze a little bit here but I feel like I'm not sure if I'm wrong here but it feels like sometimes Arsenal stumble on their more interesting moments when they're backed into a corner a little bit in terms of selection or trying to figure something out sometimes Mikel tries something and it works and it works for a little bit and then we have to move on from that and I think that was around did that also combine with the Mikel Marino having to go up front temporarily bit as well well yeah that's I was going to ask you about that because I don't want to make this a thing about Victor Jokeres, right?

9:51Because I think that's a kind of separate discussion. But I do wonder if Eze, in the position in which he's asked to play last night, is better suited to play with somebody like Marino, who's much more technical. Someone like Havertz, for example, who's a bit more technical. Jesus even, who is a bit more technical. So it feels like there is a distance between him and Jokeres because of how Jokeres plays and because he's not the most technically gifted player or the most technically secure player. And this isn't me saying Eze didn't play well because he's playing with Jokeres or it's Jokeres' fault.

10:29But I think if you're looking, and Arteta talks about this all the time, if you're looking for combinations and relationships on the pitch, it feels to me like he doesn't have much of a relationship with Jokeres. Whereas when he has played with Mourinho, that seems to be a bit more natural to him. And I sort of feel like if we're looking forward to get something more out of Eze, is it about playing him, I don't know, with Odegaard, have another technician around him? I don't know. Yeah, I think there have been probably games this season where you could have used Eze a little more. And also I think this leads into the, maybe like how sometimes Arsenal just look a bit stodgy.

11:11I've used that word a bit, but it just feels like there were games like last night where you just think, yeah, it's kind of, Arsenal don't really look like they have. When that initial plan doesn't work, sometimes it feels like there's not another option and Arsenal don't look too fluid. I think with Eze, Eze has been a victim of, I think, the injuries this season has stopped him from having maybe a settled, coming into a settled side and being able to build those relationships. A lot of people, I think, put him down as a bit of an individualist or a quote-unquote flair player, which I don't think does him the full justice.

11:48I think he is a relationship player. I think the reason he was so good at Palace was because he had relationships with the players around him. and that squad looked quite settled and they replaced certain players who left really well. And I do think that there's an element to Arsenal, because they're such a physical side and even the technicians are kind of units in a way. When you have players like Havertz or even Marino going up front, having that focal point at the top of the pitch that almost plays with like a midfield mindset, I think it really seems to unlock something in this side. Whereas I think Jocarez, you're now seeing him kind of how important confidence is, right?

12:37He's started scoring goals. His goal record recently is really, really good. His confidence has grown. And I think he's been much more effective and you're seeing a much more dangerous player in that Arsenal side. However, I do think that there are certain games where even if Jocarez is fully fit, you can try something else because I think now and we and Brentford are a great example of this Premier League defences are so good like if you compare them to a lot of other leagues around Europe they are so so good it's such a physical uh athletic technical league in a way that just having a unit up front who's a target man doesn't doesn't always work and I think that's why you've seen sometimes when Gabriel Jesus has come back in just how wriggly he is can unlock something and I think maybe Ezez needed a little bit more of a relationship but like for example my gut feeling is that he'll be fine and I think next season fingers crossed if you have you know he's had one season under his belt he's used to the surroundings a little more hopefully Arsenal win something big which I think will unlock a lot in that squad anyway and I'm hoping that he can build relationships with people like Havertz and actually get to play with people like that regularly.

13:56And maybe you'll see a different dimension to his game. Because I think at the moment he's just, he looks like a player who's maybe aware of everything a little bit too much. And that never lets you play freely. Yeah, maybe so. I mean, I think it's also fair to say that we can expect a little more from Eberachez. Like he has the talent, he has the ability. I'm not saying you know it's too easy to say go out there and impose yourself on the game I wonder if going back to what you said about you know maybe being taken out of the team after the Villa game does he feel inhibited you know like he switched off he made a small mistake which allowed Matty Cash to score and that can happen and to be fair to Arteta last week he was asked about it and said well look that can happen in football but I do wonder if the exacting demands of this manager might lead him to play a kind of safety first game at times where Ezzard is best is a bit more risk-taking, you know, and this is a team perhaps that could do with a bit more of that as a mindset.

15:00But look, it didn't work for him in the first half, and the first half kind of just happened. There wasn't a great deal going on from either side. There was a chance for Brentford after Raya rolled it out to Rice, except not Rice, straight to a Brentford player, and then had to make a very good save from Igor Tiago. It's a very good save. Maybe the last 10 minutes of the first half were better from an Arsenal perspective, played a little bit higher up the pitch, played a little bit with a bit more intensity or a bit more intent. But ultimately, you know, you got to halftime and you were thinking, well, I'm not at all surprised that a change is being made here, that Eze is the guy who's coming off, and he decided to put Martin Odegaard on at the break.

15:49Not the first time he's made early changes. Not four this time, obviously, but one is still a halftime change. It's an admission that something isn't working, and it's not just Eze that wasn't working. I think collectively, you know, the team performance was not where we needed it to be. Yeah, 100%. I feel like this has happened a few too many times this season. And I think it's probably the main issue I have with this Arsenal side is that one of their biggest strengths, so the defence, I think sometimes leads Arsenal to be a little too casual going forward. I think when you're that comfortable in a defensive sense or you're that confident in your back four, maybe you don't take as many risks.

16:39And it's weird because you should take a few more risks, I think, when you're defensively solid. But I feel like they're waiting for the moment so often. They're just like, look, it'll come. We're probably not going to concede. We'll get a moment. That'll be the goal. And that's where I think a lot of that opening games up with set pieces and stuff and being so defensively sound maybe just look it it feels like arsenal just there have been too many first halves where i've where at halftime i've just been a bit like like what really was was the point just just to kind of chill in that first half and keep it tight like i'd rather i miss i kind of miss arsenal and i do wonder whether like last time it was either last time i was on or maybe the time before we were talking about i think throw-ins as an example right how I would love to see or we were talking about maybe the next evolution of this Arsenal side would be I would like to see quick throws and keep the ball in possession and speed the game up a little more and I would actually quite like to see Arsenal just go at teams a little more in the first 10 minutes and then if it doesn't work then back off a little bit and get more of a sense of the game because I think that teams are expecting a certain thing from Arsenal now and Premier League teams learn quick and I think a side like Bremford the way that Arsenal played in that first half just kind of suited them pretty they were pretty comfortable I thought maybe bar one moment maybe that's the second half but yeah just overall like a sense of like okay this is a half that happened yeah game that's probably just going to happen and I feel like that's happened a few too many times I mean I think what would the discussion has often been about how Arsenal have been really effective in the first 15 minutes of second halves which is a thing, right?

18:21And you can look at the goals that have been scored, but that also tells you that what we've done in the 15 minutes after halftime is a step up from what we did in the first 45 minutes. Like, I know it's a bit of, you can win a game in the first half. You can absolutely win a game in the first half or put yourself in a position where it becomes much easier for you to win a game by virtue of what you do in the first half. But I will say that I thought whatever was said at halftime, the change of Odegaard-Fereza had an impact, but the way we played was different. And there was, you know, much more intent, much more intensity.

18:59We were popping it around in good areas. There was an improvement in the way that we played in the opening stages of that second half in particular. I think Odegaard was good until he picked up that little knock. And I think he did have a positive impact on the way that we played. Nevertheless, the opportunities were scant, I guess you'd say. There was a shot for him, wasn't there, from the edge of the box, which he skied over. There was some nice combination play, but we weren't forcing Brentford into last-ditch defending. Cuevin Keller didn't have to make too many saves. You could see on the sideline they were getting Pakaio Saka ready to come on, and then all of a sudden, Nani Matueke scores what I think is a very good goal.

19:50A really, really good header. The first touch and cross from Nkappie is excellent. The header from Matueke is very good. I think Keller has caught a little bit. His weight is just on the other side. the ball loops in 1-0 and from there that should be a good position for Arsenal to go on I want to give you some stats so from halftime until we scored Arsenal had 75 % possession in this game we had five shots to Brentford's one score the goal we go 1-0 up there's two ways of looking at this right one is that okay you're in a good position just step it up a little bit and use that advantage to go on and maybe score a second goal you can also say look the opposition are going to try and react to that which is fair as well because they have to react they have to come out and they have to try and find a way to get themselves back into the game.

20:50But between the time we scored and their equalizer, our possession went from 75 % to 27%. We had no shots and they had four shots, one of which ended up in the back of our net. It is a discussion I see quite a lot. Is that Arsenal score and then go into their shell? this might be like the as a question how do we explain that how do we how do we try and parse that is it a case that we feel as a team that goals are they feel hard to come by which is kind of ridiculous because we're only what two goals or three goals behind manchester city in terms of goal scores yeah second top goal scores in the Champions League?

21:41It feels though like goals are hard to come by. So is there maybe a sense that, you know, on the pitch, it's like, right, we've scored, we're good defensively, let's protect what we have rather than go out and really try and score a second goal and capitalize on the advantage that you've created? I mean, my initial feeling is that it has to come from the manager, right? Because it's a collective thing. So not like 11 players on the football pitch aren't going to all of a sudden all think the same thing all the time after scoring a goal. It must be something that's either communicated or maybe it's a thing of taking the foot off the pedal a little bit and trying not to concede.

22:27But I think the problem with that is, there's two things. I think the first thing I wanted to highlight was the goal. Because I think too many times in this game, Arsenal floated kind of hopeless crosses into the box it felt like and the Hincapié ball I thought was such a good example of how to destabilise a defence like Brentford's if you're going to cross the ball in driven, pace, quite a bit of curl on it and I think the ball is the thing that causes Kelleher to kind of shift his weight because it's such a good ball that I don't think you'd expect the header to come back the other side. And I think that that to me is a real example of how Arsenal can switch up a little bit.

23:13It feels like we float crosses a little bit too often. And I think against big defences, it doesn't really work. I also think that, look, a side like Brentford, what are the main threats? It's going to be set pieces and long throws. The long throws are the thing. And it caught us for the goal. And it's a thing that everyone knows them for this season. Why not, once we've scored, push for a second and keep them penned in? Because we've shown in the game that we can do it. We've shown in the game that we can keep the ball and keep them in their half. It's going to have to be a hell of a long throw from their own half to cause us a problem.

23:50And I think that sometimes that's the most frustrating thing sometimes, I think, from an Arsenal point of view, is that, look, we know we can do it. We've proved against multiple opposition this season that we have different ways to beat teams. Because I think if you look at the ways that Arsenal have beaten teams of various oppositions this season, sometimes it is fairly different. Sometimes it's set pieces, but sometimes it's in transition. Sometimes it's with shots from distance. You have Declan Rice and Martin Zubimendi on the pitch who are great at shooting from distance. And I think that there's maybe a 10-minute period after the goal where Arsenal just have to keep Brentford in their own half.

24:35And I think if you do that, you maybe get an opportunity. I know it's all ifs, buts and maybes. And Arteta was asked something about this after the game about, and he was just, I remember him saying, just like if, if, if. And it is a little bit like that, but that to me is a much more effective strategy than inviting a side who is very dangerous from set pieces closer to your goal. Sure. I mean, there will be people who say this is a mentality thing, right? that it is a question of, I don't know, feeling insecure or you score and then you immediately go into your shell, which is a sign that mentally you're weak or whatever it might be.

25:15I mean, is there another discussion to be had about that this is a technical issue, that your technical competence or your ability to keep the ball in midfield and keep the ball in key areas is a part of how you can do that. Does this team, let's say, not feel as technically secure as it should? Like if we play the ball to the centre forward, is it going to stick? And it did stick with him a few times last night in a way that I haven't really seen it before, but there were other times where it just didn't. But Bakayo Saka came on the pitch for Nani Matueke and really did not look anywhere close to being fit.

26:03I think he had five touches of the ball in 25 minutes, which is so unlike Bakayo Saka. And it's not just about Saka. I mean, I think you can critique his individual performance, but I think you also have to look at why Arsenal weren't able to get Saka on the ball. So is there maybe a combination of this, okay, mentality? Not that we're scared after scoring a goal, but like we don't really want to push on because we're afraid of conceding or something. I just don't quite know what the right answer is in that sense. I think Mikel needs to figure out one more solution this season. And I think that could be the difference between Arsenal winning a lot or nothing.

26:47I think there's one more solution that he needs to figure out because there seems to be a certain game state that Arsenal struggle with. And, you know, I was looking at it afterwards last night and I was thinking, right, what, obviously hindsight is amazing, but what changes would I have made? Obviously, you would probably, everyone would, even Mikel would probably make different changes knowing the outcome. But I feel a little bit harsh saying this because he linked up really, really well for the Martinelli chance at the end. But I would have maybe taken Jokeres off instead of Madueke and moved Trossard into that kind of central role, which we haven't seen a lot of him this season.

27:27That's true. I was thinking about, you know, what changes he could make as well. And my sense was that Jokeres played the full 90, not because he was having a great game. I think it was fine. but I think what he was there for was to provide presence and height from set pieces because we didn't really have it. You know, we didn't have Havertz, a Marino to slot in there in that position. And, you know, I think that was important. We'll talk about their set pieces now in a minute. But I did wonder, like if Saka's not ready and he came on the pitch and looked not ready, it was a miscued clearance which led to a throw, which, you know, ultimately led to their goal.

28:08and that's, you know, that's not to blame Saka for the goal. But, you know, I think a fit Bakayo Saka doesn't slice that ball out for a throw. He hooks it up the field, as you say, and they've got to throw on the halfway line or somewhere beyond that. But I did wonder maybe if you have to keep Yacarez on for that height and for that presence, can you A, maybe leave Maduweke on? I found him a bit frustrating last night and I understood why they were thinking of the change, but then he just scored. could you just leave him on or could you play Gabriel Jesus on the right? This is the thing so I think that the only reason I get the Jokeres thing and obviously look I'm not a professional football manager Mikel Arteta knows a hell of a lot better than I do but it just felt that I think we had enough physical presence for set pieces without Jokeres anyway just because of the guys at the back going up for it you know you have Mosquera, Gabriel and then Capier in the box that's pretty decent and I felt like we weren't getting we weren't really winning the physical battle Brentford are very very physical so we're not going to win it in the air and in a physical sense we needed to break the game open a little more and we needed to pull them around a bit more and I think that potentially keeping Maduweke on maybe bringing Gabriel Jesus on for Jokeres and keeping Trossard there it's just something different it's a little bit different than just relying on height and physicality because bremford deal with that really really well um again hindsight's amazing right but i just feel like sometimes that's probably the only thing that i i think i i think i might have said it on on the arse cast maybe last year where there's a there's sometimes there's moments sometimes and it happened last season where this side the reason this side needs to win something so badly is because sometimes they need reminding how good they are.

30:08And you see it in games like this, where it just gets a bit like the fear kicks in and there's like the arrogance and the swagger that you saw early on in the season. There was a period where the only side in the league, the reason why Arsenal went on that amazing run, I think, and went from way behind Liverpool to being out in front, was there was a period where they were pretty much the only side in the league who could control games. And the swagger that Arsenal were playing with, even when things didn't go well it was just like there was an air of inevitability about us and it's not there at the moment it's gone and it went a bit ago and i think that sometimes they need reminding and i don't know whether that comes from the manager or it comes from maybe just having getting a big trophy over the line but it feels like actually yeah you don't need to just you're really good at set pieces you don't need to just rely on them let's play football like Sorry, I know that's a bit like...

31:00No, I know. Do you know what I mean? We can also play in combination and keep the ball and break the lines and all this kind of stuff and pull defences around. And that's the only thing I would love to see a little more of us is just have that. Because we have the squad that is quite multidimensional. And I feel like sometimes we don't play into that. There was a moment just before their goal where we potentially could have made it 2-0. Martin Odegaard pressed high, won the ball. drove towards the box played it towards Declan Rice I've watched this about 10 times this morning to see like what could we do a little bit differently there and I've seen people say well there's an early pass to Jochores but Jochores doesn't make any kind of move to say to Odegaard give me that ball now I want that ball he just kind of continues to jog Odegaard takes it into the box I don't think he does anything particularly wrong by playing it to Rice I think maybe if it's slightly a little less pace on the ball.

31:59It's there for Rice to potentially have a shot, but I think he's made his mind up to try and play Jokeres before he even thinks of having a shot. And actually, you know, there's a fresh air kick from Jokeres, but it's a really good interception. I think it's Coyote who comes across and makes a very good interception. We saw a couple of those later on from Arsenal players. So that's a sort of not quite a sliding doors moment, but again, another moment where if we're a bit more decisive in the opposition final third, we could be 2-0 up, and then I think you're in a much better position. The goal we concede, I mean, I have to ask you about, you know, Brentford and set pieces.

32:40It looked like some kind of Roman orgy in there, the way players were sort of grappling and writhing and holding onto each other and falling over, legs akimbo. It was like Caligula rather than the Premier League. You know, but it was very deliberate from Brentford and it was designed to unsettle Arsenal. And it did in this moment. And I need maybe to separate that moment, because if you don't deal with it once, you get punished. Right. But generally speaking, I think because of how chaotic it was in there by design from Brentford, I do feel like in our misery this morning, we need to maybe give some credit to the defenders.

33:25and to the goalkeeper, who I think, you know, had a couple of moments which weren't there, but still made a couple of very important interventions from set pieces where we dealt pretty well generally with what I think was extraordinarily difficult circumstances because you could see Keith Andrews, former set piece coach, how do we rattle Arsenal? Like, I'm not complaining, by the way. I don't think, you know, Arsenal are in any position to complain about how another team tries to unsettle the opposition from set pieces. but that long throw is a very, very particular weapon, isn't it? And we're beaten to the first header.

34:02Keane Lewis Potter gets ahead of Odegaard. Odegaard tries to clear the ball, hurts his knee. I think hyperextends his knee in the process. And it's 1-1 not long after we've gone ahead. Yeah, I've seen a lot going around this morning of being, of, you know, kind of taking the piss out of David Raya for complaining about what's going on in the box. And I'm like, yeah, fair. I think that it's felt like the most extreme set-piece threat we've had this season that we've played against. And yeah, like you say, I think Arsenal coped with it pretty well. I don't have any complaints about teams doing that at all.

34:42I think that it's, I think it's just where the Premier League started to move a few years ago and it's moved, it's just kind of, you know, They've gone turbocharged this season. And, you know, Arsenal aren't the only side doing it. Brentford aren't the only side doing it. I think that teams lean into certain extremes a little more than others based on who they have. And, you know, I think like we've seen with the long throw thing with Brentford be very, very effective. We've seen Arsenal try it a few times and it just not work. Because we don't have anyone who can do what Coyote can do, which is like it's maybe the best long throw I think I've ever seen.

35:20and we endured and suffered some fucking Rory DeLapp in our times when he was playing for Stoke. There was one in the first half, maybe quite early on in the first half, where he just launched it towards the near post and it went wide. He just threw it straight out for a goal kick. But the speed and the height, the trajectory, the distance he got on that, it is absolutely ridiculous. And I can, you know, I'm not a professional footballer. I would rather defend 100 corner kicks than one of those. Yeah, it looks terrifying. It's like Roberto Carlos' Le Tournoir free kick, but in throw-in form. I just don't know how you do it.

36:05It's wild. And if you have it, and I think this is the thing, look, is the Premier League stylistically my favourite league to watch at the moment? Not at all. It's in a really weird place, I think, the Premier League, because of the quality and what's, you know, what that then leads to in terms of style and entertainment and what have you. But like, if that is there and that's the way the game's going and you've got someone like that who can do it, like what an amazing tool to have. And I think it's been, I think it's a similar thing with the Arsenal have had on set pieces, right? Is that it's quite, there's a lot of like myth building that goes with that stuff.

36:44quite more often than not it's not even necessarily the quality of the delivery that is going to cause the problem i think it's the psychological thing of the impending set piece here we go again oh my god like and and that creates like you have the physical chaos that's going on but then you have the fear of the impending set piece which creates some kind of like mental like confusion as well and it's it's all part of the same thing and when you have you know guys who are like that big and that strong and that physical and that athletic it's just it just honestly man like premier league boxes on set pieces look like some of the like least fun places to be you know just like and i if i was if i was a player at the moment in the Premier League I'd be like can I why don't I just stay up just just I'll stay up you know yeah yeah maybe it'll distract them or something you know I mean do you want to maybe expand on that a little bit in terms of before we sort of finalize the discussion of the game and what happened in the in the final stages I mean on the Premier League itself we were talking just before we came on air that Arsenal have this season played really well and performed against top-quality opposition in a way that they can't do in the Premier League for the most part.

38:16And I'm talking, obviously, what we do in the Champions League, when you go to Inter and win, when you get Atletico Madrid at home and you smash them 4-0, when you get Bayern Munich at home and you beat them 3-1 and it could have been more. There have been some really convincing, encouraging, positive Arsenal performances this season, which I think because of the virtue of how often we play in the Premier League, they kind of get forgotten or they become a little more abstract or slightly to the back of our minds because for the most part, we have not played or been able to play like that in the Premier League.

39:04And that could be us. It could be the way the opposition set up. It could be a combination of both of those things. But the Premier League feels like the most difficult place in the world to play football right now. Yeah, it's an absolute slog. It's just every... I think, so the thing about the Premier League, which is really interesting, is that you're now, we're now at a point where you've had so much investment and so much money has come into the league that you have teams who get newly promoted, like newly promoted teams like Sunderland, could go and get the players that they, if you go and look at some of the players that Sunderland signed for the season and where they were at before, it's kind of wild that a team going into the league for the first time, like for example, if Schalke could get promoted next season, into the Bundesliga, they're not going to go and take someone from Villa.

40:02They're not just going to be like, oh, actually, we're going to go and take Villa's, we're going to go and take Matty Cash because we just, you know, that's just not, it doesn't happen. But it happens with the Premier League. And what that creates is that, you know, it is a bit of a, the best league in the world thing, I think, is true from a purely playing personnel perspective and a finances and a resources thing. and it goes so deep down the league that it all kind of just cancels itself out. There is like a, the Premier League I think has become fairly homogenous in terms of like it's become very physical, it's become quite reliant on set pieces, I think like goals from open player down.

40:37Hugely tactical, discipline, organisation, yeah. Very tight and if you look at the dynamic of a lot of sides, like there isn't as much variety as there has been in the past right now that also follows trends right you know everyone a lot of teams build up in the same way or a similar way you know I'm not going to kind of offend proper tacticians and analysts by saying that everyone does the same thing because they don't but there is a general trend in the Premier League that I think is is the reason why for example Spurs will fire Thomas Frank for being 16th in the Premier League but they've made it through to the automatic knockout phases of the Champions League fairly comfortably actually and I think that's why Spurs can finish 17th last season and win the Europa League where you have the 16th and 17th sides in the Premier League in the Europa League final so what that means is I think that it's just it it doesn't create the biggest spectacle in my opinion I think some of the best games that we've seen in the Premier League this season bar the odd few and maybe it's just recency bias and maybe it's not that different to a historic trend but i feel like the the most fun teams to watch in the premier league or the most fun games tend to happen with like between flawed teams i think because it creates that that like variable if you like um and i think that's why you've seen arsenal do so well in the champions league and that's why i kind of push back a little bit on the like look i don't think arsenal quite as boring as everyone makes out, I think they're conservative in the Premier League specifically because I think it is just, you have to be.

42:21I think the Premier League has turned slightly conservative in terms of like stylistically. But no boring side, like fundamentally boring side goes and does what they've done in the Champions League against those sides, you know. So I think maybe that's also why some of the Champions League stuff felt just, again, it's all kind of confusing, right? Because you're like, well, do the league phase games really mean that much in isolation? But also they're quite fun because it's like, oh, we can go and play a little bit more expansive. So, yeah. I know exactly where you're coming from. It feels like the sort of collectivism has come at the expense of individualism or freedom of expression.

43:07And I don't think that's just applicable to Arsenal at all. And I think where your point really sort of resonates with me is that you see teams, for example, and it's not to say Arsenal should be like Bournemouth, but you see them, Celso Menno, who's gone on to do, unfortunately, very well at Manchester City. but they bring in a guy like Ryan who's come in and just looked, oh, look, he's playing, or Eli Jr. Kruppi, and they find these talents, and these talents have that leeway to express themselves, perhaps because the stakes aren't as high at a club like Bournemouth as they are at Arsenal. But I do think it's an interesting discussion.

43:46Yeah, I mean, just on that quickly, in your opinion, I don't know if you agree, but I'm saying the most fun, literal like proper fun iteration of this Arsenal side was probably the first half of that first title run because we were allowed to play in transition quite a lot and no one really expected Arsenal to play that way and we caught a lot of people on the hop and then in the second half of the season it kind of fell off a bit because people figured out how to defend against us and that was it. Well that's it you are you know you are a victim of your own success in inverted commas or your quality.

44:27And of course, the way teams set up against Arsenal is very different to the way they set up against other teams. And that's a compliment, but it's also something that we have to contend with. As for the final stages of this game, I mean, Arsenal had one shot on target and that came right at the death. It was Gabriel Martinelli set up by Jurian Timber, who, you know, listen, I don't even want to get into that discussion quite now, But why is it Victor Jokerez hooking a ball over the top for Jurian Timber to run on to in our centre forward position? I feel like part of our issue this season, I don't have the explanation for it or the answer for it, is that we have defensive players in forward positions a little too often, when maybe, you know, you're better served by having forward players in forward positions.

45:14I think Timber, if he's not absolutely knackered or jaded because he's played all the time and we're in the 93rd minute, I think if he takes that on and goes outside the defender, he's got the ability to take a shot on, but his touch isn't 100%. And he plays it to Martinelli. Maybe there's a first-time shot to be taken. But Kelleher gets there and makes a good save. And, you know, there's a lot of focus on that afterwards from Mikel Arteta about how you've got to be ruthless. You've got to take that chance. But I think it's too heavily weighted because it's about the only chance that we had in the final stages of that game.

45:51Whereas at the other end, it did feel, as I alluded to at the top of this conversation, a bit like we were hanging on. You know, Igor Tiago got ahead of Muscara who made a brilliant tackle, by the way, a really brilliant piece of recovery play there. Like it sort of looks like a mistake from Muscara and maybe it is, but it's actually a really smart little flick from Tiago to knock the ball as Muscara is about to play it. Tiago just gets there first, but it's great defending from Muscara to get back. Thiago had a shot, which Raya saved. There was another shot from a tight angle, which he put over the bar, which I think you expect him to do a little bit better with.

46:29A brilliant intervention from Declan Rice. I think it's Damsgaard who's about to pull the trigger as Brentford threatened again. That long throw in the last seconds, as I thought, I'm not the most visual guy, but I could see about 50 ways in which that ball ended up in the back of our net. So, you know... That slow motion with opera playing kind of thing. Exactly. It's a tragedy. Exactly, yeah. Oh my God, that's perfect. That's exactly the way it went. But I mean, is that inevitable when you're playing a team like Brentford or is there something to be worried about that Arsenal couldn't in the last 20 minutes, having brought on Calafuri, having brought on Martinelli, having brought on Saka, We couldn't really find a way to get the goal that we wanted to get.

47:22I was going to say the goal that we needed, obviously the goal we needed to win the game, but it just felt a little like we were hanging on for a draw, which is why at the end of it you feel like, I'm disappointed but also quite happy to get the fuck out of Dodge with a point. Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think it's a little column A, a little column B, right? I think it's concerning that Arsenal don't start turning the screw and really applying pressure. Because it's a really important game and three points would have been massive and it would have been... I actually said earlier in the podcast about it being 10 days to the North London derby, but obviously we've got Wolves next week.

48:07I'd have completely forgotten about that game. Yeah, we've got Wigan on Sunday and Wolves in midweek. And Spurs have nothing. I mean that's so so yeah I think that you look at that and you're like well actually just this is a tricky game this is probably on paper the second most difficult away game that Arsenal have got left in the league I'd agree with that and what a statement it would be just to get it done with three points and it would be a bit of a like it would be a bit of a blow for Man City as well I think I think I think Man City and Pep would have expected Arsenal to drop points last night.

48:46And I think if Arsenal can come out of that with three, then it doesn't have quite the same effect as their win at Anfield, but it's not far off it, I think. Is the counterpoint to that, though, that in not doing that, we have emboldened them or played into the anxieties or the doubts or the discussions that happen around Arsenal and our ability to get it over the line. Like not for the first time this season, there's been an opportunity to sort of make a little bit of a statement and to get the points and to sort of respond to what City have done or what other teams have done. And it's not that we've not done it every time, but there have been other times where we haven't quite capitalised on the opportunity, if you call it that, to extend the lead at the top of the table.

49:39Yeah, I think what's happened is that There have been a few moments this season that maybe don't even fall under the opportunity to capitalise. There have just been a couple of sloppy moments from Arsenal where they've dropped two points or three in games where you're like, it was actually just a bit unnecessary. And the thing that happens, like those games in isolation are what they are, right? But I think that they then give you less wiggle room for games like away at Brentford. So that's where you really start to feel it. I think that the biggest effect that this has, or the group of people that this has the biggest effect on, are fans.

50:20I don't think it affects the players quite as much as it affects Arsenal fans or opposition fans, because I think that they are probably a little more aware of the context that results happen in than we are. you know they might have been more aware of like oh shit actually like Bakayo wasn't fully fit and we brought him on and uh yeah actually we do miss Kai Havertz but he'll be back in a couple of weeks or they they're a lot more aware of their physical level and also the plan behind the scenes and what because they they're not just mapping out for Bremford they're mapping out like selections and stuff like that a few games ahead I think that Pep will just be like yeah this is fine actually this I don't think Pep this result last night means that Pep is now going right lads we're going to win the league because arsenal have drawn at bremford i think pep is deeply worried about that game at the etihad i think he's i think pep knows how good arsenal are pep hasn't played like they played at the emirates as man city manager i think like ever no never it was a bit of a there was a touch of it maybe in the season they won the champions league but not to that degree I think that if I could lend an encouraging note and I don't think it's everyone's so like neutrals and the wider football media landscape is so like narrative is the thing that they need they need the clicks they need the interactions impressions all that kind of stuff so they're going to ramp the title race and they're going to ramp the pressure on Arsenal but I think the thing to remember as Arsenal fans is that the person who is probably scared of Arsenal the most as Pep.

51:58I genuinely think that because I think he knows how good the side are and I think he knows how good a coach Mikel is and I think he's probably just relieved as opposed to galvanised. I think he's like okay, that's two points that maybe we're closer than we would expect to be. But I think that the only other thing I'd say is that I'm not any more or less worried about Arsenal's chances of winning the title than I was before kickoff. That's very interesting because I am a little bit, I am a little more worried. I'm a little concerned that the team for a couple of reasons is too predictable. I agree with that.

52:46And also just one thing, sorry to jump in. I'm also not saying if people are worried that they should. No, no, no, no. I get that. I know there's been a lot of like feelings police going on with. Sure. Yeah, exactly. Everyone can feel it. I mean, you've made your point. My point is I'm a little worried. I think in February when I see a team that lacks attacking cohesion, again, recognizing that we've scored a lot of goals, we don't have an attacking player or players who are really tearing it up. We don't have that. And I don't know that you can win the league without that. At least one player getting on a run of form, a run of goal scoring form, a run of creative form, whatever it is.

53:35But then I think maybe that puts a little bit too much onus on one individual or two individuals to produce. I think there is a collective effort as well. And I just worry a little bit about that. I mean, I did want to sort of touch on the Havertz thing and to what extent, A, his absence might be a hindrance. and B, what his presence maybe told us or taught us about what we need to do for this final run-in in the season. There's 12, is it 12 games left now? 12, 13? 12 games. So I think if you look at it objectively, Kai Havertz had a very positive impact on this team when he played. Do I think it's because Kai Havertz played brilliantly in all of those games.

54:24Now, I think, you know, as I said, in one of the games, I think he completed just seven of 14 passes. Statistically, you know, that doesn't look great for any player, but there's no question he had a positive impact. And where I'm sort of going with this is that I think Havertz, and I wish we had him, and I think maybe last night It might have been a bit different if we did have him. Havertz had such a positive impact because he changed the dynamic of the team. The team was not as predictable. He popped up in areas where nobody else really pops up or does things that other players don't really do.

55:09And without that, we've sort of reverted to this quite predictable setup or approach. And I wonder if is now a point in this season where Mikel Arteta has to kind of stick or twist a little bit? Is it a case that he goes, well, listen, we've come this far without Kai Havertz for most of the season and we've done well. I can't really risk changing anything now. Or is there a need to acknowledge that in games like last night, we were found wanting a little bit in the attacking sense and that if you go for it a little bit more, and I know that's just a platitude nearly, right? Just go for it. Just go with some gold.

55:53But you know what I mean? In terms of like if you just keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, it's going to get you results quite a bit of the time. I don't know. No, it's one of those difficult ones where if he tries something different and it doesn't work, people will go, well, what are you doing? Does he get any grace or leeway if he decides to change things up tactically? It does feel to me, though, Ryan, that just something has to click or we need to light a fire a little bit in order to sort of propel ourselves towards the Premier League. Yeah, he needs his Mikel Moreno as a number nine moment for this season.

56:33That's what they need because that was an experiment that they were forced into and it worked and it saved Arsenal for a period of time. And it was also unexpected and it created a completely different dynamic for opposition analysts because they were like, oh my God, this is just different. And I think that the reason why Kai Havertz is so effective in this Arsenal side is because I think he essentially combines the standout attributes of maybe two or three attackers that we have into one player, I think. Like he has the physicality of Jokeres. I think he has the link-up ability of Trossard or Jokeres and potentially Gabriel Jesus.

57:13But his sense of space is, like, I always refer to this. I went to, when COVID was on and they had the ghost games, they called them in Germany, Leverkusen played Hertha in the Olympia Stadion. There was no one there. And I just, I think it was the last season before Kai Havertz went to Chelsea. And I just watched him for like 15 minutes, just him. And he was never not in like three yards of space. Like his sense of space is unbelievable. And I think that that is his biggest attribute to this Arsenal side because it just, what that creates around him is such a positive. Now, I think that we have to maybe adjust our expectation of, we need to find, or Mikel Arteta needs to find something that we can go to in case that we don't get to see him much this season.

58:08the Marino injury is a big one because that takes another potential option out and who is that like what is that I think there's two things that I would like to see personally I would love to see the attempted like almost the word like comeback of the Ben White Martin Odegaard Bakayo Saka triangle on that right hand side because I think Urien Timber has been unbelievable at points a season and he's like he's like a player that I don't think I've ever seen before however he's looked tired at some points and I think he's been he's been so good that I think teams are trying to figure out a plan for him and I think that Ben White's physical like added physicality and also just creative I think he's under underappreciated in terms of like his creative brain I would like to see that because I think it would be a new dynamic that we haven't see much of this season.

59:06And I would like to see an experiment up top somewhere. And this isn't a slight on Jocheres, but I think we've seen Jocheres really, really come alive when the game's been broken or in the later stages of games. Against Tide defences, he's brilliant. You know, like when he came on against Inter. And Leeds. And Leeds, yeah, for sure. Does this also then lead on, I know this is a lot of hypotheticals but is this maybe the way to try something new with Eza? Like, is it a front three of Saka, Trossard and Eza in a combination? Because like we've said before, like in the Premier League, teams are kind of fine with just a big guy, you know, unless you're early in Haaland, right?

59:53And no one really has another Haaland. So is it the kind of the interchanging, changing like Zubamendi has has proved that he's really good at running from deep does Eza's like kind of withdrawn central role up top maybe bring that in I think that's that's the kind of thing that we we might need to see or if we don't if we don't we're just it's just going to be an absolute like grim struggle fest to the end of the season and we're going to just crawl over the line I think it's not going to be fun there was a thing was it um James said it on here he said that those on the Ask Us X show. Did he say, was it James where he said Arsenal might win everything and everyone's going to hate, like no one's going to enjoy it.

1:00:35Yeah, maybe. Maybe so, yeah. Like that's the feeling that I've got this season, you know. Yeah, I mean, listen, if that's what it comes down to, I'll take it. I'll take it, absolutely. You know, I think we all would. It's just, again, I think an example of how fraught this season is and how we're all feeling. And I think your point earlier, by the way, about how we feel about it, how the players feel about it is spot on. It's very different. And they might be able to compartmentalize a 1-1 draw. You come off the pitch having faced that against Brentford. There's a brilliant picture on Arsebog News.

1:01:16I think it's the quotes roundup post that Andrew put together after the game. and the picture that he's used for that article, I think just sort of sums up that game. Again, it goes back to my sort of Caligula reference earlier. This is just like bodies everywhere and arms and legs and torsos and contorted faces. Like that game was hard work for Arsenal and for those players. And I think when they come off at the end of a game like that and they think, we're like, Jesus, okay, we've got a point away from home. Let's put that to one side. We've got FA Cup, then we can focus on Wolves. and then the Derby, you know, I think they will think about it a bit differently than we do.

1:01:56But everything that doesn't go right for Arsenal this season also feels like a kind of a tragedy in a way, right? Yeah, because everyone's expecting it. So it just feels like your fears are being confirmed, right? But can I ask you a question? Do you have a feeling or an expectation of what Mikel might do or whether he might change something this season?

1:02:25my feeling is that he is a guy who will much more easily stick than twist i think he'll play the odds you know he'll go with the percentages he won't take what he considers to be unnecessary risks or chances and I think it would be easier for him to try things if he had a fully fit Kai Havertz, a fully fit Mikel Marino, a fully fit Bakayo Saka. These guys are key players, pivotal players for Arsenal and they're not at their best right now or not available right now, which inhibits what you can do. So I think it sort of plays into, if you want to call it conservative or safety first or just assessing the odds and thinking, what's my best team to go and win a game or get a result?

1:03:25I think that's the way he'll go. I'd like for something to change or for something to just be a little bit different, for somebody to find a spark. And if that comes from the manager or if it comes from just somebody, even something like, I know it's been mooted time and time and time again, But like, is there a role for someone like Martinelli as a nine in a team like this? Like, he's not going to do it. I know that. It's a bit like, why don't you play Zinchenko, you know, in midfield? And he's like, I'm not doing that. Just put your in timber up front, man. Yeah, exactly. You know, he's up there anyway.

1:04:05So you might as well just...

1:04:10I just, my gut feeling is that something needs to click or spark or reignite the team in terms of confidence, in terms of attacking cohesion. Because I just think we play too many games on the margins. And I think it's physically grueling and mentally grueling for these players on top of all the other stuff that they have to contend with in terms of the expectation and the pressure and the outside, the external noise, if you like, about Arsenal doing it. this has got to be the season that Arsenal do it, which I kind of, I don't want to agree with that, but I kind of feel like we're, this is a tipping point season in a way, right?

1:04:57And that is a lot to contend with. Yeah, I mean, look, they've got the best squad when everyone is fit in the league, Arsenal. They've got the most complete squad. The problem is that they haven't really ever had a good run with everyone available. So it's been constant changing or constant trying to figure out stuff. And that's the reality of a Premier League manager. A lot of other teams have had, I mean, like, I know, sorry to do it, but one of the things that has cost two Spurs managers now has been their injury. It's all very well and good bantering, but the injuries have been wild. A lot of other teams have had injury problems.

1:05:38but I think that it I think that's what if I was going to be like why would Mikel Arteta not have like take a chance on something I do think it's because he's a bit like well I don't really have the stability in terms of like having Calafuri for 10 straight games or you know everyone else is fit in an attacking sense um I do think it is a little bit like I feel like the Premier League now is more it's like it's almost like an F1 season right and you can't like teams in F1 can't go throughout a season without any upgrades. And in a Premier League sense, or in a football sense, that's not just transfers in January.

1:06:14It's attacking combinations or tactical tweaks. And I do think Arsenal have one more in them. And I think, if I'm going glass half full, I think that might be enough. But I also think that this lead or this gap at the top is going to expand and contract again and again for the rest of the season. And I think that's probably why, going back to my point before, I think the reason I'm not any more or less worried than I was before was because it was the Manchester United game that reset my worry level. That was the one that stung the most for me. It was the biggest kind of like, that's the most concerned I've been all season.

1:06:56I think also, just really quickly, I think that like, it would have been, I don't know, you can't change it. But for example, I think I've also been a little bit unlucky that the Leeds game was then followed by Sunderland at home and Brentford away, which are just like real, real slog fest. If maybe Wolves now, I think, are slightly different. They're starting to lose morale, I think. After like a few months after Rob Edwards has come in, I think the Wolves game happens after the Leeds game and you get a little bit of momentum, potentially. It maybe feels a little bit different. but yeah, it's going to be tough, man.

1:07:34It sure is. I mean, winning stuff isn't easy. No, that's it. Who said it was going to be easy? Sometimes I miss the days of just being seventh and being like, do you know what? No, I don't. You got Europa League, great. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, this is, it comes with the territory. That's the alternative, isn't it? Exactly. That is the alternative. It comes with the territory. Nobody said it was going to be easy. And listen, have Arsenal ever done things the easy way? Maybe once or twice, but generally speaking, when we do it, we make it a challenge for ourselves and that's definitely the case this time around.

1:08:03Anyway, we don't have any of the answers but it's good to talk to you as always and we'll catch up soon. Take care, man.

1:08:21Thank you very much indeed to Ryan. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at RyanHun.BSky.social, at RyanHun.BSky.social. And, of course, the co-host, along with Musa Okwonga, of the Stadio podcast. So that is just about that for today's show. There is FA Cup action, obviously, this weekend against Wigan. A chance, probably, for Mikel Arteta to rotate a squad a bit. And also for us to escape the pressure of the Premier League for just a few days until it all kicks off again next week with a trip to Wolves and then, of course, the North London Derby next weekend. But look, hopefully the FA Cup can help us find a bit of spark and hopefully get some minutes into legs who need them and some end product and all of those things.

1:09:08So, listen, last night against Brentford was not brilliant. I don't think it's the end of the world, but certainly there is room for improvement, things that we need to do to get ourselves going for the final couple of months of this season, the final 12 Premier League games of this season, if we are going to go on and win it. But we'll find out more about that next week. All right? As ever, thank you so much, as always, for being here and for listening and for subscribing and for being with us all the time. We really, really do appreciate it. Wherever you are in the Arsenal supporting world, look after yourselves.

1:09:41Have a great weekend. You can join myself and James on Monday for an Arscast Extra. For now, though, take it easy, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:10:22Thank you.