Episode 871 - 1-0 to the Arsenal

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0:56Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on arseblog.com. Thank you very much indeed as always for being here. I hope you're all well. We are in Lisbon and I'm in a hotel room with Andrew Allen. Good morning to you, Andrew. Good morning. What a privilege it is to be here with you. Thank you. It's slightly odd as well at the same time, I must say. Yeah, yeah. The whole face-to-face recording thing is like... Yeah, it's different. Yeah, it is a bit different. But we're here because Arsenal were in town last night and came away from the stadium with a 1-0 win over Sporting, which is, I think, a moment that this team absolutely needed.

1:41We might get into the nuts and bolts of that in a minute now, but let's start with the team, I guess. There's no big surprise about the starting lineup we had. Declan Rice, Martin Zubimendi, Victor Jokeres, Nani Madueke, all back in the team. Gabriel Fitt, Leandro Trossard back after the game against Southampton. Obviously quite a number of changes. Yeah, and I think much needed as well. I think almost people forgot that we had all of these players after the two defeats and were panicking. And there was a certain level of calm restored, especially seeing Raya back in goal, I have to say. And yeah, I mean, as you say, I don't think there was really any surprises there.

2:24I mean, there might have been some people asking for Max Downman to start again off the back of the weekend. But I think, as you mentioned in the blog the other day, he's so young, he might need to protect his legs a little bit. And he does get kicked around. But yeah, I imagine he was hoping Victor Jokras would be particularly pumped about being back at Sporting as well. And no bad thing to give Havertz a little breather as well. So in terms of how it all began, And there was obviously a fairly good chance for sporting early on. In the opening six, seven minutes, I can't remember. Araujo, I think is the guy's name, Maxi Araujo, who I noticed people talking about in terms of some of the fouls that he made last night.

3:11Apparently, no player has made seven fouls in a Champions League game and not got booked for 900 years or something like that. This is quite an interesting one because I certainly heard around me a little bit of frustration at how apparently easily Arsenal were cut open in that moment. And people were looking maybe at Ben White because it's the fullback and Araujo ran off the back of him. I genuinely think that is a sensational pass from the centre half whose name I can't remember. It's an unbelievable pass. And I think any fullback and centre half, because it's William Saliba alongside him, would find that almost impossible to defend.

3:57If you can execute that pass as well as that guy did, you're going to give your forward or your runner a real chance at goal. I don't think it's bad defending. I think it's actually just brilliant play from the opposition. Yeah. Am I right in saying it was with the outside of his foot as well? I mean, it was pretty spectacular. and we were definitely caught kind of slightly flat-footed I think but I mean great run and it was a bit of a heart and mouths moment for everyone in the away end when that ball was rocketing towards goal you were thinking oh god and then yeah I mean off the bar but it was very hard to tell what actually happened actually there you know certainly from where we were we didn't know that that had been saved I think it was you looking at your phone reporting back to everyone that there were fingertips involved Yeah, I had the live blog.

4:44Lewis was doing the live blog. And he sort of obviously saw the replays and saw that it was a save from David Rye. I mean, it's one of those really faint touches, but I think without that, that ball is probably going to go in under the crossbar. But it was a kind of heart and mouth moment that early in the game. And, you know, considering we were looking for a performance and a response from Arsenal to the last two defeats. But, you know, obviously Raya, who we'll talk about a bit more later on in terms of what he brought to the team, the importance of that save at that moment, at that juncture in the game is huge.

5:18Yeah, I wouldn't have enjoyed the rest of the game if we'd gone down so early there. I think there have been a lot of agitated voices around us. And no, I mean, we survived. I think that was the important thing. Arteta obviously kind of steeled the team for a quick start. And I mean, sometimes you just need a moment like that to go your way. to be honest like it didn't feel like we were really going to do anything in those opening few minutes we really felt like we were on the back foot I mean they were pretty composed you know their crowd was very very into it big kind of TIFO before the game and all the rest of it and yeah I have to say I was nervous but it's that sort of first leg nervousness where you're never completely like it's going to be game over no matter what happens really here so I was um Yeah, relatively OK, but God, it's a moment.

6:08It's a moment, yeah, and it doesn't settle you down when the opposition crash went off the bar that early. But I do think what we did then, when Arteta was talking before the game about wanting his team to show their identity, you can look at that in all kinds of ways, I think, or you can project your own kind of, what you want Arsenal's identity to be in that context, right? So maybe people are saying, right, our identity is an attacking team. We're going to go. For me, it was just about finding a way to control games again because we didn't really control the game against Manchester City in the Carabao Cup final.

6:49We didn't really control it in the way you would like against Southampton because it was more open. And I think you've got to look at the team selection and maybe some of the players who played in that, some of the unfamiliarity played a part in that but for me the identity that Arteta was looking for was that control was about what we did in the first half of the season where people couldn't get a shot on target right that kind of thing people's mileage on how exciting or exhilarating that is will vary but I think what that that was what he was looking for so in the aftermath of that chance then from sporting I think I turned around to you at one point and said they've barely been in our half since and and that was I suppose from the manager's perspective will be a pleasing aspect of how we played the game there wasn't a great deal going on from an attacking perspective but we didn't let sporting near our our goal at all yeah I mean there was four players there who I think really make a difference.

7:53You know, you've got Zubamendi and Rice, obviously, but Odegaard willing to drop deep and come and get the ball. And I thought Califuri as well was really excellent. So a combination of that kind of foursome alongside, you know, a more established defensive partnership and Raya, obviously, in goal, who's able to calm things down and look comfortable with the ball at his feet and beckon players onto him before making a pass, absolutely made a huge, huge difference. and yeah I mean I guess we kind of just strangled the game a little bit right I mean it was loud and all we had to do was kind of keep the ball for a while and kind of calm it all down you know you you do want to see this team push forward a bit more on occasions but perhaps in a first leg away from home in a Champions League game actually it wasn't as important as that you know it was that wasn't the kind of be all and end all in this instance.

8:50Can you tell I'm a bit tired today? Yeah, just a little. Yeah, that's fine. Words are a struggle, yeah. Yeah, it's good for a podcast, isn't it? Words being a struggle. Yeah, that'll be the margaritas and the late night. Yeah, I mean, it was a perfectly kind of normal Arsenal performance, I would say. Would you say it's like a normal European performance at this level of the Champions League, regardless of whether it's Arsenal or not, I think the first half of a first leg away from home, you know, the last time we came here, for example, we ran out 5-1 winners. And I do wonder if there was an element of expectation around that again.

9:31I think it's a very different dynamic. Obviously, a group stage game, especially in the extended group format that they have now, the league table format that they have right now is very, very different from the first round or the first knockout tie in away from home, two legs. So this was kind of what I was expecting, that sporting might try to start fast, that Arsenal might then try and exert some control and strangle the game a bit. I mean, I do think there is an argument that you want to see a bit more from Arsenal in the final third. But as a sort of first half with zero injury time, by the way, because not much happened in that first half, really.

10:14It felt like, right, this is what happens at European level. You know, you sort of have to adjust your mindset a little bit to the way that the game is played when you get to this stage of this competition. Yeah, I think there's a maturity about the way the team deals with this level of competition now. I mean, three years ago when we were back in the Champions League, maybe we were a little bit, you know, raw and youthful and prone to the occasional mistake. But this was controlled. I mean, it looked like a team who were favourites to win the tie doing what it needed to do. I'm not going to say going through the motions because they had to work hard.

10:50You know, this sporting team were on a 17-game winning run at home and, you know, they clearly fancied their chances. But, you know, I also looked at their team and noticed in moments that they maybe didn't quite have the cutting edge and the quality that you might kind of fear at this level. I mean, obviously, last year we were playing Real Madrid and, you know, the ball was being played forward to Kylian Mbappe and you're panicking a little bit. But this time I didn't look at Luis Suarez, the Jocares replacement, and particularly think that he was going to have one over Gabriel and Saliba, that's for sure.

11:23No, I mean, he barely got a kick all night, to be fair. There was one shot, wasn't there, late on before I got down to save. But yeah, he was on scraps. Yeah, which I guess is what Arteta would have wanted and what the players would have wanted from this game. After the break, maybe a little more lively, a little more, not quite end-to-end, but there was a little more action. I think Trossard had a shot, didn't he, early in the second half, pulled it wide. There was a cross, I think, from Madueke that Gabriel almost got on the end of. I mean, he did hit the bar, didn't he, in the corner? Yeah, again, in the first half, from where we were, through the net, it was very difficult to see precisely what had happened because it was up the other end.

12:05I thought the corner had been cleared to Odegaard, who pulled his shot wide, but obviously it hit the bar. It was like a very Erdegaard shot that kind of slightly snatched from the edge of the box. It was, yeah. There was another one. He had a shot with his right foot as well, didn't he? Was that first half? I think a shot with his right foot. It was on target. But, you know, I mean, he's certainly been trying his luck because, I mean, he had a few efforts against Southampton as well. But, you know, he always looks like a player who needs to be in the groove with this shooting and sometimes goes through periods where it just looks like he's not going to.

12:37Yeah. Yeah. Barn door with a. he's not in the groove at this moment in time with the shooting. But, you know. Yeah. I mean, look, as a whole, we did not create much last night. I think the XG was pretty pathetic. For both teams. Yeah, for both teams. I mean, it was a real stalemate, right? And I think had it stayed that way, neither of us would have really complained. No. I mean, it would have been a bit underwhelming. But, you know, I think you can all logically, objectively look at a nil-nil away from home in a first leg of a European tie and say, you know, listen, that's not the worst result in the world.

13:12It could be better, but it's not bad. You don't want to come back to London on the back of a defeat, obviously. The ball was in the back of the net about midway through the second half. Martin Zubimendi curled it home nicely, but Victor Jokeres offside in the build-up. I mean, I even felt when we were celebrating that goal that it was, I looked at it and thought, I think he's offside, you know. Yeah, there was a certain kind of willingness to celebrate, but a sort of immediately looking around going, well, that's going to get VAR'd, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they don't have big screens in the stadiums and they don't really communicate any of the VAR stuff at all.

13:53So we were kind of in the dark until again, you were checking the live blog to find out what had happened. Yeah. Yeah, quickly, obviously, it was ruled out. And I think the players knew. But it was also, I was surprised the shot even went in, actually, because, you know, from where he was, the goalkeeper looked a bit weak being beaten at his near post there. It was one of those where he sort of dived under it. And I wondered whether that was because he just sort of knew it was going to be offside or the build-up or just bad goalkeeping. Not sure. Yeah. Well, that was a bit of a disappointment, obviously.

14:25Mikel Arteta did make a change. Odegaard went down. I don't really know, still don't really know what exactly happened there when Odegaard went down and we were, you know, looking at him. Someone said, oh, he's just lost his boot. So he's just sitting down to tie up his boot again. But you could sort of see by the way he was sitting that he wasn't happy or comfortable. He went off and got some treatment and stayed on for a little while and then was replaced by Kai Havertz. I think this is maybe an interesting aspect of how the game or how the final stages of the game played out because Havertz had a huge impact late on, obviously.

15:04But again, much like the first half, I thought we were very much in control, playing the game, a lot of the game, in their half. And while he wasn't particularly incisive or crafty, wasn't making chances for anybody. And listen, I think it was a very difficult game in which to make chances for both teams. When Odegaard went off and you put Havertz on in that position, you lose possession. You lose a guy who gets on the ball because Havertz obviously plays that quite differently. So I'm not saying it sort of lets sporting back into it, but immediately it sort of changed the momentum, but maybe the dynamic of the game where it was being played a little more in midfield, a little more in our half than it had been previously.

15:50Yeah, I mean, I love Kai Havertz as a player and it's really interesting to see Arteta, I guess, experimenting with him again and using him more as a midfielder than an out-and-out striker. I mean, he clearly has something to offer there. We'll get to the goal, obviously, but he's a very neat and tidy player and I think, you know, automatically when you see him kind of moving around the pitch, he wants to be on the ball, but he's not going to go so, so deep to go and get it. And, yeah, he linked up play nicely. I mean, I thought, you know, in the grand scheme of things, all of the substitutions were actually quite, you know, they were quite ambitious substitutions, I thought, you know, to take off both wingers and put two wingers on and, you know, including old young Max, old young Max.

16:34Old young Max. He, yeah, it just showed a bit of intent, which I, you know, I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd gone, you know, more defensive, I'd say. Right. Well, Havertz came on and then I think Trossard and Matuweke. I mean, I think Matuweke was more impactful than Trossard. There were moments, I think, when Trossard was... He doesn't look right to me at the moment, Trossard. Yeah, it doesn't look like he's moving particularly well. The version of himself in the first half of the season, just after signing the pay rise. So you're saying give him another pay rise? Yeah, just bump him up.

17:11Just give him another few quid, he'll get some gold. And he's just, he's not quite getting into those positions anymore. And yeah, he definitely looks like someone who is playing because he's nursing an injury. And I do wonder with some of these guys at this point of the season, how much that's affecting them, especially when you know there's a World Cup on the horizon as well. Yeah, it's tough. It's sort of frustrating because you know what he can give you, but we just haven't seen him in and around the box taking opportunities like he was in the first part of the season. I think the best moment that I can remember from Trossard, apart from that shot that he had early in the second half, was a first half when I think he sort of ended up in the space you expect Odegaard to be in that kind of right inside right channel.

17:59And it was Calafiore who made an overlap and he played a nice ball to Calafiore. But that was our left side just completely shifting over to get involved. So I don't think the left side worked particularly well from an attacking perspective. But look, he did make the change. Maduweke was lively enough, had some moments, was fouled a lot by Araujo, who didn't get booked at all. Which is, Lewis kept going on about that in the live blog. So it's on my mind. And it wasn't something that in the stadium I was like, oh, come on, this guy's got to get a yellow card. Well, hard to tell which player were which through the thick, thick netting.

18:37Yes. Well, that is an issue. And we'll talk about that when it comes to the goal, actually. But yeah, I think you're right. You know, you're putting on a 16-year-old away from home. Max Damman, I think the youngest player ever to play in a Champions League quarterfinal game. Martinelli, whose record in Europe this season has been very good. And so I did wonder if he might start, but I think if you've got the Matuweke-Jokerez components in that front three, I understand why he went with Trossard for a bit more technical security, if that's the right way of putting it. But, you know, Martinelli is...

19:17I mean, his highlights package in this season's Champions League is extraordinary. You know, if they want to move him on at some point, you know, everyone can just point to him doing what he's done at the highest level this year in this competition. And you don't often see him create exactly like that. No. It was an unusual sort of dart and move, but it completely depends on someone making that run for you. And obviously that run was coming from midfield. It wasn't just someone standing in a static position trying to pin a defender and then make the run. And it was really, yeah, I mean, so it was a lovely, lovely moment.

19:55When you do these away games, you definitely don't want to lose. And I'd kind of made my peace with the idea of a draw. You know, it was sort of like, well, we don't want to be standing here for an hour and a half after the game and being penned in by the police and all the rest of it miserable. A draw will be fine. And I just was so happy for the goal because it just gives you that moment to cling to, you know, the memory of the trip suddenly just, oh, it's there. Absolutely. And I mean, listen, I'll come back to Raya because I think it was about five minutes before the goal where he made a brilliant save down to his left, it would have been, at the near post.

20:35Yeah, I mean, he made a double save, didn't he, at one point? I think it was Luis Suarez. And then there was also a header, a diving header, I think, that he had to get down to as well. So, yeah, I mean, he's genuinely been the difference maker for us this season, you know. Well, I said I was going to come back to Raya, but seeing as we're talking about him now, we might as well give him his flowers. He was man of the match. We saw him being interviewed by the TV people below us, and we saw him being given his man of the match award by the UEFA people as well. discussion you know around us was about Raya's credentials for potentially being Arsenal's player of the season and I think he's got a very good shout for that because of the consistency of the performances I think I saw maybe someone on Blue Sky I'm not sure but they said no goalkeeper has had more clean sheets than David Raya this season I think he in the Champions League and 15 in the Premier League.

21:36So, you know, last night, first half, brilliant save, double save. And then that save actually down at his near post, because it's close range, I think it has to go beyond. Could be Gabriel, somebody, before he gets side of it. It's just such a... I mean, you sort of expect him to make it because he's so good, but that is not an easy or a sure save, I think. I think it's just a really great piece of goalkeeping. I think because he's almost he's so present in the league you almost start to take him for granted a little bit and the last few weeks having Kepa in goal has kind of just shown the difference in the level that there is between the two players and that's not to do Kepa down really I mean but Raya's I think this is why so many people were so frustrated that he didn't start the Carabao Cup because there we were you know obviously going for a trophy and he's so integral to everything we do you know he's the first line of defense and he's the first line of attack you know he's genuinely just undeniably one of the most important players in the squad and yeah I'm delighted that he's he's getting the the attention that he deserves on an international you know doing it in Europe especially given that he's not actually Spain's number one goalkeeper I mean I think there must be people around the world wondering how on earth is this guy not getting into his national team ahead of is it?

23:01Uno Simon yeah but yeah he's fantastic and he's so understated so laid back so calm you never see him getting angry really with anybody you know and I think that just radiates throughout the rest of the team the team looks so much calmer with him in it whether he's on the ball and obviously these moments I mean there's been so many this season where a game might have turned from a win to a draw or a draw to a loss because of him and yeah it's hard to put a kind of points tally on it but yes as you say with all those clean sheets I mean it speaks for itself right yeah Arteta said he didn't have the adjectives to describe how important Raya is and listen I don't want to sort of drag up the Carabao Cup final again but I completely get what you're saying you know it is he is a fundamental part of of how we play he is as you say integral to how we play and you can ask somebody to replicate it but it is a bit sort of like well when you don't have William Saliba you've got upholding and as willing and as game as anybody is to to fill that role if you don't have the you don't have the quality to do what that other player does the team is is going to suffer for it you know and i know in in that particular situation for example there wasn't a choice really that was a that was inflicted upon us by injury um and this was a different thing but listen i I think Raya, yeah, he was absolutely fantastic last night and deserved his Man of the Match award.

24:40And when we come to the end of the season, maybe somebody goes on a goal-scoring run that gets them over the line. But if David Raya wins player of the season for Arsenal, he'll have earned it, I think. When was the last time a goalkeeper won player of the year for Arsenal? I don't know.

25:01I'd be guessing a kind of David Seaman one year maybe who knows possibly the year we made the cup winners cup final but lost because you know he made the saves against Sampdoria in the it could have been something like that but I don't know it's hard I mean they so so rarely get major attention I just wanted to say on Brian he's getting better You know what I mean? Most goalkeepers, they make their mark and then you see that sort of steady decline. But at the moment, he really is kind of reaching peak, the height of his powers, I think. And I think the experience of playing at this level, I mean, he spoke in the press conference pre-game about obviously being at Southport and Blackburn and the grounding that he had in non-league football and how much more he appreciates the opportunity to play Champions League football now and you can kind of see that coming through.

26:00He seems like a bloke who really doesn't want to let this opportunity slip and after the game last night, he was asked whether or not Arsenal can win the Champions League and he just said absolutely. He seems to have absolute full belief in himself and the team that can go and do that. When you're coming from a club, he's never done that before. It's quite something to hear. No, it really is. And yeah, listen, he's been absolutely brilliant. Let's talk about the goal again then because two minutes of injury time went up. It seemed a bit short based on the fact that there was an Odegaard stoppage.

26:33There was some treatment for him for the injury and then there were some subs from both sides. So I thought we might get like three, possibly four. I mean, UEFA stoppage time is a complete enigma, right? I mean, it's as if it doesn't matter what happens in the first half, you're going to get a minute at most. And in the second half, you know, it's always, I don't know what the percentage is shorter than in the Premier League where they seem to add on time for everything and games are consistently running into 100 minutes now. But it seems like a weird idiosyncrasy in the game that one competition can treat that type of thing so differently when time on the pitch is obviously absolutely vital to how a team might go and win or lose or draw.

27:14But anyway, yeah, I thought there definitely should have been more. There should have been, but it was still enough time for Arsenal to go and win it. And I think we were standing there two minutes and you're thinking, okay, we'll take the 0-0 back to North London. That's not a bad result per se. But then the ball comes out to Martinelli. He gave the defender a little bit of a two-step shuffle. I don't quite know what you call what he did there. It was a bit of like running on the spot. Cut inside. I think this is probably the best assist Gabriel Martinelli has ever got for Arsenal because you sort of expect him to be on the end of things.

27:52But this was a really incisive, creative bit of play from him because he spotted the run. He executed the pass perfectly. I still think there's quite a bit for Kai Havertz to do, but obviously doesn't happen without Martinelli's determination to try and make something happen. at a point in the game where, having watched Arsenal in this game and this season, if that ball went backwards to the centre-halves and we passed it around until the game finished 0-0, I would not have been in the least bit surprised. So it was really pleasing to see that level of endeavour. After the goal went in, there was a moment on the sideline where Martinelli, we could see Martinelli and Arteta having a moment, a big moment there on the sideline between the two of them as the players made their way back to the halfway line so I think that was huge for him huge for the team huge for Arteta the touch and finish from Havertz are perfect and we talked about the net and how difficult it was maybe to identify certain players at certain moments I thought when the ball went in the back of the net that it was Zubimendi who had scored the goal and I was going oh that's a very tidy finish and James said exactly the same because James was next to me and he said, oh, I thought that was Zubimendi who'd scored.

29:15And there was something about the tightness of the touch, I think, and the quick, you know, the way that he kind of stroked the ball with his left foot that was very Zubimendi-ish.

29:27Beautiful. I mean, again, just to go back on Martinelli, I mean, a couple of weeks away with the Brazil squad, he's surrounded by hugely talented players who were playing in his position, coming in off the left flank there. And he scored off the bench for Brazil, didn't he? I mean, his impact, his ability to kind of get into a game really, really quickly is, I mean, almost second to none. I mean, that's the third goal this season that he's come off the bench in the Champions League and been involved in. I mean, there was the two... Yeah, there was one in Bilbao. In Bilbao, because he obviously set up Trossard in Bilbao as well, wasn't he?

30:02And he scored. Yeah, it's quite, it's a very handy knack to have. You do sometimes wonder for a player who does that so regularly off the bench, does it make the manager always think, well, I'm going to have to put you on the bench because I know that you're a better finish than some of the other players? Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, just excellent and good to see just some forward momentum there. and brilliant from Havertz, just such an incredibly tight touch and the decisiveness to just then slot the ball home. I mean, there's this sort of split second moment there these days where you kind of go, was he offside?

30:41Was he onside? But there was no danger of that. I mean, he really enjoyed it. I mean, went to the corner flag, gave that a good kick. Everybody was all over him. Arteta was going mad. Gabriel Heinzer on the touchline was telling everyone to calm down immediately, but he always does that in the most manic way that makes it impossible to believe that anyone could be calm in his presence. Exactly. Imagine Gabriel Aynes are telling you to calm down. Oh, dear. But yeah, just a fantastic moment. And yeah, the sporting end emptied out almost immediately and the Arsenal fans just went absolutely ballistic for a good few minutes.

31:17Yeah. Really, really, really great. Yeah, exactly. Because at that point, you are sort of saying, right, just don't lose it. Whatever happens, just don't lose this game. So to get the winner at that moment was absolutely amazing. And like you say, in the stands, it was brilliant. Yeah, I mean, I said last night, it's the first time you, me, James and Tim have ever watched a game together. And only the second time I've been in a stadium next to you in a game. And it's a weird thing because we've worked together for, what, 15 years or something. It's sort of ridiculous. But yeah, it was just a really fun moment.

31:53A really, really fun moment. It was great. There's lots of lovely people around us as well. Of course, yeah. It was great to spend time in their company as well. I think the fact that the referee somehow found a bit more injury time after the goal. Just to make it interesting. It was a little bit frustrating to me because it was like, oh, two minutes and we scored, you know, and then there was just more time. Yeah, they added on a minute and a half for a celebration there, having not added on anything for any of the other stuff that happened in 45. They did get the ball into our box a couple of times.

32:27There was one, I think Ben White cleared it up the line. I was going, yeah, ref is going to blow now. You know, the ball has been cleared. He let the ball come back in. They put a cross in. I think Raya collected the cross, after which there was a very muted sort of final whistle because we were all sort of there going, come on, come on, come on, come on. And then all of a sudden it was sort of over. We didn't hear the final whistle from where we were, but obviously a huge moment. I mean, Martinelli, Champions League, 10 games, 6 goals, 2 assists. Martinelli, Premier League, 25 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.

33:07What's that about? I don't know. It's hard to reconcile that, isn't it? Maybe it's the style of football that you play or the style of teams in the Champions League. But, you know, I think sporting, much like Bayer Leverkusen did in the previous game, played in a way that you would probably associate more with a Premier League team than a European team. You know, the first leg away at Leverkusen was quite attritional, wasn't it? And the first half, certainly, we touched on. But, you know, this was the first leg where Sporting were absolutely not going to end up on the wrong end of a 5-1 or anything like that again.

33:46So they were going to make it really, really difficult. So I don't know if it's just a slight quirk of his season or a slight quirk of just how it all plays out. But certainly there is a big difference between what he's delivered in the Premier League and the Champions League this season. I mean, when you look at those numbers on the surface, I mean, there was a lot of discussion, wasn't there, earlier in the summer about whether it should be him or Trossard leaving. But, I mean, you just can't really deny the impact that both of those players have had on our season. And actually, if you'd got rid of either one of them, you'd have had to spend a lot of money finding a player who could actually get those numbers, even though there is no denying in the Premier League Martinelli's numbers are weirdly off.

34:28But if he takes us all the way to a Champions League final because of these goals and these assists, then, you know, no one's going to be complaining. I think, you know, he'll earn his legend status, that's for sure. I do, I just, I do really like him as a player and as a, you know, I love his temperament. Like he has always, always been all about Arsenal since he got to the club. He's never really edged. You know, he could easily have agitated for a move at some point when he sort of dropped out of the team. And, you know, this season, the way that he's been treated by the manager more as a finish than really as a starter is interesting.

35:02And I wonder, like, if Arsenal win something this year, it'll all be he'll probably be absolutely fine with it. But I wonder what will happen next year if he wanted, you know, would he accept the same situation? I think that about a lot of players, actually. Like, I think Arteta's managed to formulate a sort of collective attitude towards it's all about the team and we have to win something this year, which is going to be hard to kind of replicate year on year on year with the same group of players. I think there's probably going to be some churn, right? But right now, he's doing absolutely everything that we could ask of him.

35:37Yeah, and a big, big contribution and a big moment that I think, you know, the team needed. Like, you know, as I said, we could objectively say, nil-nil, fine, second leg, do the job. Same as Bayer Levy-Kusin was, 1-1, come back, do the job at home. But I think after what happened in the last two games, this, you would hope, is something that's really beneficial for the players. Like, you could see how much that meant to them when we scored the goal. It's not just about the late winner. There was something a bit more to it than that. There was a bit more to the way they, I don't want to say celebrated, but acknowledged the traveling support last night when they came over at the end of the game.

36:23Like Declan Rice was fucking pumped up, like properly pumped up in the way that he reacted to that. So I think you have to look at that as ahead of the game against Bournemouth on Saturday and what remains of this season. sort of like the jumpstart we needed again after those two defeats. Yeah, I mean, this team doesn't have many crisis moments, but it does have them. And when they happen, they're quite big meltdown moments for everybody involved, particularly the supporters. And this felt like an absolutely necessary changing of the chapter or turning the page or whatever you want to call it.

37:04We needed this so much to change the mood around the team going into Saturday, which is absolutely vital. I mean, look, from a very, very personal perspective, and I said this after the game the other day on Blue Sky, that the FA Cup was a bit of a distraction as far as I was concerned. And as annoying as it was to lose to Southampton and to lose in the way that we did, everything for me has to be about the Champions League and the Premier League and going for those two massive, massive trophies. And it's almost hard to forget that the last kick of the ball in the Premier League put us nine points clear, you know, down and rounding the goalkeeper and the ecstasy that everybody felt in that moment.

37:46And to have two weeks, two defeats in different competitions, and you'd think the whole world had ended, and it really hasn't. But, you know, this team is having to cope week in, week out with that level of kind of rollercoaster emotion coming from all angles. You know, everybody asking, you know, have Arsenal blown it? You know, not really. We haven't done anything different in the league in two weeks. You know, we're still nine points clear as we were two weeks ago. We haven't blown it. So I get the criticism and I get the frustration, but I do think the players are, they have enough in them to do this this year.

38:21How much do you think that exists internally as opposed to externally, shall I say? Because, you know, you're absolutely right. When we beat Everton, when Downman had that moment, when Joachim Reyes scored the goal and then it allowed us to have that Downman moment, which was something a bit special. At the same time, Dinos Mavropanos scores for West Ham and they hold Man City to a draw. It felt amazing. It felt like not a real step towards the title, but you could feel that door properly opening up for Arsenal. And then the two cup defeats. Would it feel as bad, let's say, if we lost the Carabao Cup final to Liverpool or Newcastle?

39:04Would it feel quite as bad? Is it because it was City? Is it because when we lost to Southampton, Man City were battering Liverpool 4-0? Those are fears that I completely understand from a fan perspective because we have experienced things in the last number of years at the hands of Manchester City, which have been very, very painful. So it's easy to let your mind go that way. But that's our experience, right, as fans, as supporters, as people who are invested in this team and really badly want to see it succeed and get over the line in this campaign. I just wonder if within the group itself, the meetings that they have, the priorities that they have laid out, like they want to win every game we know that etc etc but you know it is premier league it is champions league far more important like i think they're probably better capable or more able to compartmentalize those cup games they still have to respond and react which they did last night in the end you know there's a another another aspect of this is to say that arsenal you know maybe didn't create a huge amount in this game nor did sporting but we kept going right to the end and And that shows the kind of character that, you know, winning teams will display in these big competitions.

40:29So I just wonder, do you think that is something that as fans we have to reckon with more than the players? They just sort of have the disappointment of those games, but realise that there's, you know, a big opportunity there for them still. Yeah, look, Arsenal haven't won a league title in 22 years and we've never won the Champions League. We haven't won the League Cup since 1993. and you know the talk of the quadruple stuff is really just of course it's a it's a fantastic thing to chase but it was a it was never really going to be a reality it wasn't even it wasn't even our reality it was like a construct because we had made progress in all these competitions it's a media construct in as much as anything else nobody else has done that you know won a quadruple and plenty of other teams have challenged quite late into a season looking to win a quadruple and they don't end up with nothing they inevitably end up with something and i think the players you know the carabao cup final you could almost write it off as a one-off it happened over there city played out of their skins you know i don't i haven't met a city fan who didn't say that was their best performance of the season by a long long long shot and they were given a gift Yes, yes, there was that as well.

41:47The FA Cup, I just, I genuinely believe that the squad, while they want to win every game, probably didn't genuinely believe that they could win everything. You know, it just doesn't make sense. Football is a game of luck as much as it is about anything else. And small moments can go against you in any game. And that's that. The whole season changes. So, yeah, I think they've done very well to compartmentalise things. And, you know, we've had the crisis with the Wolves away result. We had the crisis with the Manchester United defeat. We've had this mini wobble here, but we do bounce back well.

42:29So you have to hope now that this is the start of the run that gets us over the line in the Premier League. And then you just see what happens in cup football. you know we could potentially be going up against an incredible two sides in the next two rounds if we can get through against sporting next week yeah yeah i mean there's tasty potential fixtures aren't there if we win that second leg or draw that second leg we're through um i mean how great it is to be in this situation i mean it's just a fantastic thing we're on the verges of being in the semi-finals of the champions league for a second consecutive year for the first time in our history well that's it that's that's exactly it you know I people listening will know this and you know this very well because we talk all the time and we've been covering Arsenal through ups and downs and middling bits like the idea that a few years ago we would be potential Champions League semi-finalists you know and people say when you haven't been in that tournament for a long time and we were what six seven years out of the Champions League we had our Europa League we had our fallow year where we weren't in Europe at all to come back in the first year and reach the quarterfinals I think that was a solid step to get to semifinals last year and look at the look at the players we had available to us or didn't have available in the games against PSG you know who obviously went on to win it and and were you know the best team I think but you look at who we didn't have in those games and a few moments as you say I'm not going to say it's luck but you know there were there were chances in those psg games where the goalkeeper was really really important for them at moments in the games where it could potentially have taken on a different dynamic and here we are again now going up maybe against barcelona or atletico madrid in the semi-final if we get through against sporting you know this team has really properly established itself in in europe now and i i get criticisms of style or whatever it might be but you cannot I don't think people respect us yeah you can't criticize the effectiveness of this team whether you like it or not is a different matter but the sort of the ability to grind and to to sort of get results is listen I think it's underestimated and I think there is maybe a little too much focus on style when when football as everyone says is a results space business but you know to to to be where we are now as a team in Europe as the sporting coach said last night top class opposition is how he referred to Arsenal you know and we were watching a game on Tuesday night here no Monday night I got in on Monday we were in a bar and we were watching Benfica play I think the team who are second from bottom in the Portuguese league they're also a Lisbon team I can't remember the name of them I don't I can't remember I'll look it up but I was looking at it and it was bad it was bad it was really really bad you were watching a Mourinho team we were watching a Mourinho team that's true and actually the the the post-game coverage of Mourinho was was really quite entertaining because he went off coding the players and all kinds of stuff um but i was looking at that and and you know the level was not good um i'm just looking at the uh i can't find it here it doesn't really matter um and i've kind of forgotten the point i was going to make so there's a big long rambling uh uh tangent there which has no uh no fulfillment for anybody listening so i apologize for that but yeah i I think we are a team, as you say, that everyone respects at this point.

46:31Yeah. Look, I found in the last few weeks the increasing frustration with Arsenal's style of play to be a kind of badge of honour, I think. Casapia is the name of the team that Benfica drew 1-1 with, more or less ending their title hoax. Casapia. Okay. now I don't know what I was talking about it doesn't matter if you made it this far folks congratulations there will be a prize it was about talking about style in the last few weeks I think is what you just said I think Tim has written about this extensively actually about the fact that we've kind of turned ourselves into the sort of George Graham style everybody hates us we don't care 1-0 to the Arsenal we might as well just embrace it I was really hoping this season that we would come out all guns firing would be really stylish um would be a team that would win the the league with some swagger because we'd added so many great players to the to the roster um and then that Manchester United game happened on the opening day of the season and I just went oh no we are just gonna we are just gonna grind this out and I made my peace with it before before Christmas, that we're not going to win this being everybody's favourites.

47:51We're not going to win this, you know, like the 2002 double team, you know, scoring goals left, right and centre with fantastic players and sweeping football. It's going to be a bit more artisanal, industrial, and it's going to be pretty horrible. And I've already labelled the team the unbearables. And I stand by that because we're unbearable for everyone else. we're unbearable for our own fans sometimes and I think we just need to just roll with it and hope that they can be unbearable for a few more weeks that's all they need to do and then we can have a parade and we can write the season off and say great that was fantastic and then like next year we'll go and win it with some style yeah exactly we can stick two fingers up at everybody and of course despite all that no team has scored more goals in the Premier League this season than Arsenal so you know wrap your heads around wrap your heads around that one So I just wanted to talk before we go just very quickly about the match day experience.

48:48Lisbon is a great town and the people are great, really friendly, really welcoming. We weren't sort of in the heart of the city pregame, but we got the train out, we got the metro out. last year when we came here there was a little pizza restaurant on the way to the stadium where they were banging out five euro pizzas selling cans of beer for a euro and it was brilliant and everyone had a great time and there were sporting fans there and there are arsenal fans there and everyone was mixing together and chatting about football and it was a really nice experience And I don't know if something happened that I didn't see, but at no point did I get any sense that there was real trouble, that the Arsenal fans were misbehaving in any way.

49:40When we got off the train and came out of that station, it was really quite weird to see these stormtroopers. Stormtroopers. And that's the only way I can describe them. Like full body armor, truncheons, shields, masks on so you could only see their eyes. And they sort of corralled us into the stadium. We tried to go over to the pizza place and the guy was like, get back on the fucking road there. yeah um it felt a little unnecessary to me for that presence to be as threatening and intimidating as it was like you stay you see those guys and you're like right i'm staying away from you i'm just going to keep head down and walk into the stadium stadium was fine bit of searching bit of overzealous searching um one of our group had a hairbrush that she had to put in the bin which is a bit ridiculous a tiny little hairbrush as well but you know of course dangerous weapon you're not allowed to bring that into the stadium but you could buy magnum ice creams in in the stadium which i would dare say if you threw one of those cold enough would be a weapon yeah you got the stick you know you can sharpen that stick it's like a prison yard shank you know um you know that was an element i think it was a brilliant trip and it was amazing to be there at the game and to win it the way we did.

51:05But, but as well afterwards, they let us out of the stadium stadium after what, about half an hour, I would say. Maybe a bit longer, maybe a bit longer, 40 minutes. And again, sort of corralled us like sheep into one file to walk all the way back to the, to the station. You know, it just, it was. Intimidating for the sake of being intimidating and completely at odds with the vibe of the fans absolutely because you know to look around an arsenal away in these days it's not like it's the 1980s and everybody's there in a firm ready to kind of you know go fisticuffs with with whoever's local um it was such a it was such a weird it kind of put a weird level of tension just as you were you know both entering and exiting the ground um really really unnecessary and like you said i'm i mean i i'd been here in 2018 and i'd seen the stormtroopers but hadn't quite had that level of yeah you know um well it was almost a kettling experience effectively the way they just sort of blocked you in yeah um hadn't experienced that and um you know you didn't see it in the center of town either because it's quite possible you know you're more likely to get issues where the arsenal fans are drinking right in the middle of town and having a few beers and then everyone's getting rowdy and singing songs and stuff like that but didn't really experience it there they just i don't know it's a very odd decision on their part but um i don't know whether it's a ua for diktat and that they they feel like they have to step it up in the final you know in the final rounds or something i don't know i don't know like you know they were they were sort of on the fringes last time you know there's always going to be some of them but the way there was there was like one on your left and then five yards later one on the right one on the left one on the right and they're not like they're not like hey guys how you doing yeah it's deliberately unfriendly yeah it's like yeah not particularly great but you know anyway like we said at odds with whatever else we have experienced in this fine city yeah yeah it's a just an absolutely delightful city and even though the weather yesterday was worse in lisbon than it was in london um and dublin even as well yeah it was uh it's a pretty special place they've got yeah well the sun is shining today so i think you know we might leave it there for this particular episode and go out and have a wander and see what the city brings us in terms of food.

53:32And I think there could be some pastels de nata with our names on them. Yeah, why not? And yes, apologies for being a little bit slow today. I think that was definitely the late night. We got ourselves warmed up a bit. Yeah, we got there in the end. To be fair, like it was what, midnight when we got back into town and we had a couple of beers and then that bar closed and we wandered down towards Pink Street and immediately swerved what was going on there. Because thank you to all the gentlemen offering me cocaine and hash, but I didn't want any of that. And I didn't want to go to any strip clubs, despite some suggestions from a particular gentleman.

54:10We ended up in this cool bar. I had a couple of cocktails in this cool bar. Upstairs was a DJ banging out these brilliant, like, house tunes, perfect mixing. And there was me and you and two American lads having a jug of sangria ahead of us. And that was about it. That was it. Yeah, it was very romantic. Yeah, it was lovely. It really was lovely. I think it was the last margarita that probably tipped me over the edge. But we made it to bed separately, even though I'm now in your hotel room again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good cover. Well done. Exactly. You've covered your tracks well there. No, it was a great night and great to see, like, so many Arsenal fans there and the guy who left the stadium with his seat under his jacket, fair play to him.

54:56It broke off naturally, I think. So he just took it with him. Yeah, he took it with him. I'm sure EasyJet will be delighted to welcome him on board with his own seat. He was the Arsenal fan who left with a bit of body armour. But yeah, no. There is one last thing. I think Tim said yesterday that he didn't have his ticket scanned on his way in and the club have made a really big deal about only giving you the away point if your ticket is scanned. So it'll be interesting to see if anything comes of that and if anybody else experienced not getting their ticket scanned on the way in. That's weird because the guy was making sure he scanned mine on the way in.

55:32But hopefully no repercussions for Tim or anybody else. Right. I think we'll leave it there. There is obviously a huge game against Bournemouth on Saturday, which we'll talk about a bit later in the week over on Patreon. our patreon uh drive this month as well obviously in support of the arsenal vision fundraiser for the arse foundation is ongoing so if that's something you can support brilliant and don't forget that in the month of april arseblog will be donating every single penny that we make from patreon to good causes we'll give you details of of those good causes a little bit later in the month but if you want to join for this month only you get all that extra content and you're going to help those good causes that we talked about so there's a lot going on we'll talk about it on Friday we'll do our Premier League preview podcast it's patreon.com forward slash arseblog you can sign up there for now though take it easy folks thank you for being with us thanks for indulging us the croaky voices and the the slow start we've got ourselves warmed up for now take it easy and we'll catch you on the next one until then

56:52I'm out.

57:18Thank you.