Episode 874 - Fair but frustrated

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0:55Kaya Kaynak: Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast. right here on Arsblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. We're talking the morning after Arsenal's 1-1 draw away from home with Atletico Madrid in the Champions League semi-final first leg. I think on balance, a decent result, probably a fair result, but obviously there's a bit of frustration in there as well from an Arsenal perspective with the penalty we got and which was then taken away wrongly, in my opinion, and I'm going to guess probably wrongly in your opinion, too. So we're going to talk about all of that, the penalty we didn't get, the two penalties that were given in the game, some of the big moments, the selection decisions, some of the tactical aspects of the game, which I think were really quite interesting, how this tie is now in the balance going into the next leg, Diego Simeone, all of that.

1:52Kaya Kaynak: We're going to chat about it now in just a second with our guest. After that, though, I do want to give you an update on the Arseblog donations for April 2026, as we do every year and have done since 2022. We donate every penny and more of our Patreon revenue to good causes. It's the 30th of April today, so I'm going to give you an update on where that money has gone this month. And there'll be a word, too, on the fundraiser for the Arseblog Foundation, which is done in conjunction with our great friends at the Arseblog Vision podcast, which has hit an extraordinary amount. So updates on those things to come after we talk football.

2:28Kaya Kaynak: And with me to do that this morning from the TIFO Football Podcast, it's Kaya Kainak. Good morning, Kaya. Morning, Andrew. How are you? I'm doing all right, thanks. I'm doing all right. A sense of frustration maybe at a game that could have gone a bit better for Arsenal, but also recognizing that Atletico Madrid had some moments in this game, which we, I'm not going to say escaped with, but, you know, fine margins in games of football. think we saw a lot of that last night and I think I think this is a really interesting game to talk about because there was so much focus on Bayern Munich versus PSG and it was an extraordinary game of football right I think this while not quite as action-packed in terms of goals and and that kind of stuff was equally compelling really when you look at how these teams are set up the two managers the atmosphere the incidents within the game I mean just overall before you get in before we get into the nuts and bolts of it how much were you invested in this game as a sort of a spectacle aside from the fact obviously that you're an Arsenal fan watching Arsenal in a Champions League semi-final yeah I found this an entertaining game there was lots of talk about the Bayern PSG game the night before I'm actually one of the few people who didn't watch the game because I made the poor decision to go to a friend's house for dinner who I hadn't seen for ages, and he doesn't have Wi-Fi at his house because he's from the past, and that meant I wasn't able to really keep track of it.

4:02So I just was getting loads of texts being like, oh, my God, it's 3-2. Oh, my God, it's 5-2. Oh, my God, it's 5-4. I've obviously watched the highlights back since, and it seemed like an amazing game. But it's kind of different strokes for different folks, and I've been thinking about this, and sort of, I kind of feel like you can have a fancy ice cream sundae and it can be chunky monkey flavoured with like nine cherries on top and all the chocolate sauce you want, or you can have just a plain bowl of vanilla. They're both still ice cream and they both taste really good, right? So I think they're both great games.

4:32I really enjoyed last night's game and in a different way. Like I think when you hear older people, there was an interview on The Athletic a few weeks ago with Aurelio Di Laurentiis talking about you need to shorten the halves of games or you need to bring more goals to increase the attention span of the younger generation. And that's complete nonsense, personally. But when you hear people talk about that, they say you need more goals, more goals, more goals to keep people entertained. No, you don't. The entertaining part isn't just the goals, it's the way the teams go at each other. I found it fascinating last night.

5:05We've had boring games that have ended in similar scorelines in the Champions League knockouts this season. The sporting games, for example, weren't very good matches. But this, I thought, was much better because it was two teams, two top quality teams using and two top quality managers using every sort of tactical tool in their toolbox to go at each other in the best ways they could and maximizing their strengths and trying to minimize the opposition weaknesses, which is kind of what football is all about. So, yeah, I found it really, really, really fascinating.

5:33Kaya Kaynak: No, I agree with that. And I think, you know, goals are, I won't say rare in football, but it is the aim of every team is to go out there and score goals. And the reason goals mean so much is because you know one goal can win you a game. If you score one and you go, well, they're just going to come down and score, you know, completely changes football. I think trying to TikTokify the attention spans of people to, you know, a new ideal of the game is just absurd, really. You know, football has existed and it's changed and obviously developed over the years. But, you know, there's a good reason why we all love it.

6:11Kaya Kaynak: And I think last night was a really good example of that. So when the teams came out, I will say I saw the front three and was like, you know, being or trying to be a little bit optimistic about the occasion. I was like, well, you know, maybe it's got to work sometime. Right. Right. You know, it has to. But that really wasn't the story of how Arsenal set up. I mean, you could probably see some, I'm going to say, method in the madness because it's not a front three that gives you control necessarily, but it does give you players who can run. And if Atletico or the idea was that Atletico Madrid were going to maybe dominate this game, then it made some sense to have these guys who could potentially play in behind.

7:02Kaya Kaynak: But that's not really how it worked out. And I thought the most interesting aspect of the way Arsenal set up last night was the fact that Declan Rice seemed to be sitting a little bit deeper. Martin Odegaard would drop in. Martin Zubimendi would drop in from time to time. but primarily it was Declan Rice playing in something much more akin to what we might consider the six, the deep-lying midfielder, and the other two were further forward. And we haven't really seen a great deal of that from Mikel Arteta this season. So that was a very interesting decision he made there. Yeah, definitely. Just on the front three.

7:39So we were asked to do a lineup that we would do if we were in charge on the Athletic. The piece actually didn't end up going out in the end. But I chose Victor Jokeres up front and I said I would have chosen him regardless because Atletico Madrid aren't the team we remember who came to the Emirates in the Europa League semifinals in Arsenal last season who sat behind the ball for 90 minutes and defended and sort of eased their way past Arsenal on marginal gains. when we've done a video on Tifa about this and I've watched a lot of them recently and they're a team who are a lot more open. They leave a lot of spaces and those are the kind of spaces that we saw Victor Jokeres thrive in when he was at Sporting and also that he's thrived in in the Champions League this season.

8:20The Inter game in particular comes to mind and that's also why I thought Gabriel Martinelli was a good choice because he's great in this competition this season, weirdly, despite being pretty average in the Premier League. I think he's got eight goals in the, sorry, six goals in the Champions League in 12 games or one goal in the Premier League in 28 games. So that tells you why I think it was sensible to play him. And I also felt with Eze kind of on the cusp, I think if Arsenal are going to do something that we all want them to do between now and the end of the season, Eberetti Ezer looks like the guy who's going to be the person who can actually make it happen.

8:51So I think keeping him as fit as possible and not risking him as much as possible is key. And then I would have picked Saka on the right, but I understand why you wouldn't want to rush Saka back for similar reasons because big games coming up. And then, yeah, the midfield was really interesting. And Atletico play this really fun kind of dual false nine thing with Griezmann and Alvarez, and it's really exciting to watch. And they don't have like a traditional big man like they've had in the past with Costa and Falcao and those kind of guys. They're very different now. And that means that when they try and counterattack you, they have loads of players in position ready to go.

9:25And as we know, watching Arsenal every week, the biggest cheat code against the counterattack is Declan Rice, who is just phenomenal and can do the job of two or even three players sometimes. So maybe that's what Mikel was thinking in terms of dropping Rice a little bit deeper and Zubimendi is not as able to cover ground as quickly. So it maybe made sense in that sense to have someone a little bit who was kind of, like you say, splitting the centre-backs at times and dropping in really deep just in case the counter-attack. But then what did surprise me was how good Rice was on the ball. And I think we all love Declan Rice for, like I said, his ability to eat up the ground and stop counter-attacks and make tackles and interceptions.

10:01We all know his strengths lie there. I think if you had to ask what the weakness in his game was, it would be those sort of short passes, technical play, all that kind of stuff. That's what we associate the weakness in being his game. Sorry, the weakness is in his game. But I thought he was excellent on the ball last night. I thought he was really smart with it, really economical. He didn't give it away cheaply. He was calm. He was composed. And that atmosphere, it's very easy to lose your head. And with the toilet roll flying down on you, it's quite hard to pay attention to where your next pass should be.

10:31And I thought there were times where people who are normally quite composed, like Saliba had a moment in the first half and he's normally excellent on the ball, but he had a moment where it looked like he kind of panicked. Gabriel had a couple of moments where it looked like he kind of panicked, but I thought Rice was unflappable. And yeah, it worked really nicely, the tactical tweak. And I also thought Zubimendi, it got more out of him because there's been a lot to talk about. We brought in Zubimendi expecting him to be this six who would kind of like Rodri dictate play from deep and do it all on his own and be on the half turn.

11:00And I think over time we've realised that maybe that's not so much what he is. And a bit further forward, trying to win the ball high up, which he did a fair few times, kind of plays into his strengths as well. So I thought it worked out really nicely. I thought it was really smart for Mikel to use the midfielders that way.

11:16Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, I'm pretty certain there must have been a discussion going into this game about control. And this is something we go back to when Arteta was talking before the sporting game or maybe after the sporting game about identity. And it is something maybe that we've lacked a little bit of in recent weeks. So I thought the passing stats in this game were really, really interesting. Most of the Arsenal players were above 90 % in terms of passing. Ben White was 87.5%. Gabriel, 92. Saliba, 95. Odegaard, 92. Zubimendi, 91. Rice, 93. Nani Madueke, 91. Gabriel Martinelli, 91. That's not typical for wingers and wingers in this Arsenal team.

12:03Kaya Kaynak: And in particular, maybe those two wingers who've been struggling for form of late. Victor Jokeres didn't make a lot of passes, but was at 66.7%. And the only slight outlier, I guess, was Piero and Capier, who was down at 68%. So it feels to me like this was a game when Arsenal prepared for it, where they said, listen, we've got two legs here. We're going to a really, really difficult ground away from home. Big, white-hot atmosphere, as you said, a pitch which is like an ice rink at times. And Arsenal are not the only team to see players slip over at the Wanda this season. It happens, just ask Tottenham, and maybe you can ask a Barcelona player or two as well in some of the games that they've played there this season.

12:47Kaya Kaynak: You know, at first minute, what happens, Piero and Capier actually slips over. So there's a lot to contend with there. But I think there was a real focus from these Arsenal players and in the instruction and the way that they were set up in this game to ensure that, like, if you give a pass or two away, it can become like a rolling stone gathering loads of moss that you do not need and over two legs. I think you have to be super, super careful about not letting the opposition generate momentum at home, which is why I was so impressed, actually, with the first half from Arsenal, because first five minutes, it's loud.

13:23Kaya Kaynak: that stadium is like, I did whatever you want to say about Atletico Madrid and the manager, the whistles for the Champions League anthem when it came on were sensational. And TV tried to sort of drown out the whistles and lift up the anthem, but you could hear what they thought of that. It was a big atmosphere. And five minutes in, I'm like, okay, well, let's see how we cope with this. And I thought what was really good from this Arsenal team was they're not cowed, they're not buoyed by this or upset by this atmosphere in any way. We're just going to get on the ball and we're going to start frustrating them.

14:02Kaya Kaynak: And you don't quiet down that crowd, but you get that crowd a little bit antsy. And I think that's exactly what we did. Yeah, I totally agree. And it's funny that that came just after the Newcastle game at the weekend where Arsenal got out-possessed by a Newcastle midfield who I think Tonali's a really good player. But beyond that, they're not the most technically gifted midfield. Bruno's a great player, but he's not the guy who gets a foot on the ball and controls the tempo of the match. But Rice and Zubmendi got outdone by those two. And Willock, as we know from when he was here, is not the most tempo-setting either.

14:34And you go to the Metropolitano and kind of expect, like you say, a certain game and a certain atmosphere and the best way to cope with that is to get on the ball and kind of suffocate them in the way that we've seen other teams do in the past Barcelona have been really good at it in the past Man City are still very good at it and I think that's that's the perfect antidote to that kind of football that Diego Simeone you know he's changed and evolved but he still wants to play that kind of high-octane football and get the crowd involved as much possible and whip people up into a frenzy we saw a bit more in the second half but the first half was brilliant.

15:09And there were periods where I think the focus was on Atletico haven't turned up or they're not pressing as much as you would expect. But I thought it was kind of also because Arsenal were really smart on the ball. Yes, thank you. I thought they weren't giving it away. They played simple passes, but simple is often the best. And I thought in that atmosphere, it's very difficult to play simple football. And they kept doing it. And I think something that gets forgotten about this team and the reason why I think almost every coach across Europe who's played against Arsenal this season has said Arsenal are if not the best or one of the best teams is because Arsenal are a really versatile team so whatever game you want to play they'll play you at it I think sometimes that's to their detriment because it means that in the Premier League this season they've not set the tone as much because they've kind of been responding to opposition but in some games like last night it means that they can kind of do whatever they need to do to to highlight the opposition's weaknesses I thought they did that really, really well And Atletico are not a team who are Llorente's very good on the ball And they've got players who are good on the ball But they're not a team who, like we said Put a foot on the ball like City or Barca or whoever They're a bit more transitional and that kind of stuff And they're high energy But Arsenal kind of neutered that in the first half And I thought it was, yeah, again Really smart play and really sensible play And really mature for a team that is only playing Their second Champions League final Like this squad semi-final sorry semi-final getting ahead of yourself just a little bit getting ahead of myself but semi-final yeah but we forget that because we kind of become used so quickly to regular Champions League football but it's not that long ago that Arsenal were going out in Europa League round of 16s or 32s to Olympiacos like yeah it's a big transition and these players are rising to the occasion I thought they rose to the occasion really well last year

16:53Kaya Kaynak: I think so too and I think you know you can say Atletico Madrid didn't play as well as they can in the first half I think that's absolutely true but I don't think you can remove Arsenal from that equation in terms of how we manage the game. And I think that particular setup, you know, I'm not sure it's necessarily something they would have considered because it's not something we've really seen in terms of how those midfielders are deployed. Take Zubimendi, put him in a little bit further up the pitch, and so you take away some of the defensive responsibility, which, you know, has been a bit of an issue of late.

17:25Kaya Kaynak: There were chances for both teams, I think. There was an incapié one at the back post he put over. Julian Alvarez with a, like, I mean, that man can hit a ball. He just sort of stepped, I think it was outside Declan Rice, and hit a shot which Raya saved. Jokeres did well. There was a moment maybe for Odegaard to hit it first time, but still got a shot away. It was blocked. It was good defending. And I think, you know, when you get to halftime or towards halftime in a Champions League semifinal, away from home, nil-nil, You're going, okay, this is a decent place to be in. But then, of course, it got better than that.

18:06Kaya Kaynak: And there was a nice little interchange, by the way, I think, between Odegaard and Zubimendi, who played it into the box. The ball is in front of Jokeres. The defender pushes into him. I think, to be fair, Jokeres sort of makes sure that that contact happens. He goes over. I mean, some people I saw were asking, is that potentially a red card? Is it a denial of a goal-scoring opportunity? Because he doesn't really try to play the ball. But I was talking to James about this last night and he was more of like, well, you can't really send players off for that. And I was like, well, you could if you wanted.

18:47Kaya Kaynak: But no, I get it. It's a penalty though. You know, there was obviously a VAR check, but there was no doubt in my mind that that was going to be a penalty. Yeah, it's definitely a penalty. I think I saw some people claim that it wasn't, but it was. You can't just go through the back of someone with no chance of getting the ball, particularly when Jokeres is in the middle of the goal. And I think he's a bit like Luis Diaz in the buying game the night before, where he kind of won the penalty because he knew that William Paco was going to slide in. Jokeres knew that Hansko was going to come into the back of him.

19:17So it's smart. Take the contact, take the penalty and seize on the mistakes that Atleti make. and just before that, the move leading up to it is really nice. And all the focus again was on poor hold-up play from Alvarez, loses the ball. But the one and two-touch passing that gets Arsenal into the position where they can seize upon that mistake because the Atletico defenders are only out of position for a split second there. And the way Arsenal kind of manipulated the space and that kind of stuff is kind of, I think, what we've been crying out for a bit in Premier League games and we've not seen it at all, I would say, for a long, long time.

19:49But the way Arsenal worked it and got Jokeres into position was, I thought, brilliant. And yeah, for me, it's a clear penalty. The red card thing, I think when there's so many players around and he's not even got it under control to take the shot yet, I think it's probably a little bit, it would have been quite harsh. And if an Arsenal player got sent off, I'd have been pretty upset with that. I think a yellow would have been sufficient. He didn't even get that. But yeah, I wouldn't say a red card.

20:15Kaya Kaynak: He got a yellow in the end. Yeah. Jokic has no mistake from the spot. I mean, I think he hit this as hard as you can hit a ball, certainly. Oblak went the right way. It sort of went through his arms. I'd say he's probably quite lucky that it didn't take his head off, actually, the pace of that ball. But, you know, it was an emphatic penalty to put Arsenal 1-0 up at the break. Yeah, yeah. We all know this season, Jokic is a brilliant penalty taker and so many of his goals at Sporting were penalties as well. I wasn't in doubt when he stepped up. I kind of was pretty confident, which is a nice feeling before a penalty.

20:55In a way that when Kai Havert stepped up in the Leiburg-Eisen game, I was a lot more panicked. When Jokeres took the ball, I was pretty calm because, yeah, he hits them really, really hard. And if they're on target, that makes them very difficult to save.

21:07Kaya Kaynak: So at the break, Arssel are in good shape. Atletico make a change. Diego Simeone took off his own son, who was getting no change out of Piero Incapio. whatever about Incappier on the ball, certainly defensively, this is exactly the kind of game that he relishes, the style of play that he has, he relishes. And they put another defender on, changed shape a little bit, put Laurenti over on the right-hand side. He was looking up at the moon, wondering, is the moon real, I guess. But it did, obviously, I don't know if that change itself had a significant impact on the way the game went, but they obviously had to respond.

21:50Kaya Kaynak: I think when you go to a big club, a big team like Atlético Madrid, away from home in the Champions League semifinal at this stage, you have to expect a certain amount of the game to go their way. And maybe the tone was set, I guess, four or five minutes in, there was a foul. I think it was Jokerez who fouled. I can't remember who he fouled, but they have a free kick like 30 yards out, a bit more than 30 yards out. And you're thinking, well, yeah, if you can beat David Ryan from there, I guess go for it. He had a fucking good go. The ball hit the side netting and there were sections of the crowd which thought that had gone in.

22:33Kaya Kaynak: And I just think from there, not that we sort of retreated or got a bit wobbly, but Atletico Madrid were certainly encouraged by that. Yeah, I think it's, I'm glad you pointed out that foul by Jokeres because for me, that's the moment the game kind of turned. I don't actually think Atesko flew out of the blocks at the start of the second half or anything, but once that foul, which I don't want to criticise Jokeres because I thought he was actually pretty good last night, but it's a stupid foul because he tracks back and it's kind of an ego foul where I think he lost the ball and he got back, tried to get back as quick as he could to win it back and kind of thinks, I can't believe I've lost it kind of thing.

23:09And, you know, a striker's challenge, if you like to use a cliche.

23:12Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, I think that's the right way of putting it, yeah. But Alvarez is a really good free kick taker and scored an amazing free kick in the last round against Barcelona. And yeah, like you say, once he hit the side netting, the crowd were kind of up for it again. And I think maybe, like you said, it wasn't quiet, but I think some of the air had gone out of the balloon a little bit because they felt that they were being dominated in the first half, and I think they were. And once they kind of smelled blood a little bit and kind of sensed there was a chance to get back into it, I think, yeah, and just like it would be at the Emirates, I think the crowd got back into it and that changed the game a bit.

23:47And Simeone is such an emotionally charged guy and the way he works that stadium and the way he's got it kind of wrapped around his finger, it relies on that level of passion and that level of energy and intensity to kind of get games over the line and to turn games in Atleti's favour. And yeah, he did it well. And like you said, you can't expect to dominate 90 minutes against... If you did, then that's like unbelievable. And he interestingly said, he said after the game that he expected Arsenal to tire a bit in the second half. I'm not convinced they necessarily did that much, but he said he expected it because we're playing for Premier League.

24:24They're not. They're resting their entire team on weekends now because they don't care about the league because they're going to finish in the Champions League spots. They're not going to win the league. They've just lost the Copa del Rey final. This is kind of it for them. If they lose the next game, their season's over. so they can put everything into these two matches in a way that Arsenal can't because we're still going for a Premier League and all our players, as we unfortunately know too well, are completely knackered all the time. So I think that did play a part in it and the fact that Arsenal kind of, yeah, I mean, they did eventually surrender the advantage, but the fact they were able to hold on to it, I don't remember that the momentum changed and they kind of were on the ropes, but I kind of think they expected that and handled it relatively well.

25:05Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, there was a shot from Luckman he got through, which rebounded for Griezmann, which Gabriel sort of blocked with his arms by his side, went out for a corner. I mean, Griezmann, like, booted the post in frustration. He felt like he should score from there because it was close range. They got a corner and then they got another corner. And then I think this is a moment where it just feels a little bit unlucky to me, you know, because the corner comes in, they do that thing where they float it to the guy on the edge of the box or in the D. And it's Llorente, who I guess was then wondering whether Bigfoot was real or not.

25:47Kaya Kaynak: He shins it. You know, he doesn't make good contact with it. It comes off his shin. It then sort of, it's going miles and miles wide. There's no question that ball is going like miles wide. And it sort of clips off Ben White's shin and then hits his hand. And his hand, I guess to some extent, is in an unnatural position. But I think when you're trying to block a ball and your hand is kind of down and by yourself, you're just trying to keep your balance. It is unlucky, I think, for Ben White. You know, in the Premier League, we know that if it hits another part of your body and comes off your hand, it won't be given as a penalty.

26:25Kaya Kaynak: That's not the case in Europe where the handball law is applied in a way that makes little sense to anybody. No common sense whatsoever is applied. But based on what we saw the night before, based on what we've seen previously in Europe, and not just in our games, but in many other games in Europe, there was no way that was going to be anything other than a penalty when the referee was called over to have a look at it. no I kind of feel for Ben White because he's literally just in the wrong place at the wrong time that's all that's that's his biggest crime in that um in that incident because like you say he's coming over to try and block a shot that he's expecting to go towards the goal that's why his foot goes out towards the goal his arm has to come back behind him because that's physics and um that's unfortunately where the ball bounces and there was one the night before as well with um with Davis um that I think Arteta highlighted after the game again I think that's kind of BS I don't think either of them should be penalties.

27:25I think if you do that, you kind of get to a point where you run the risk of players dribbling into the box and thinking, well, I'll just boot it in his hand and hope for the best. What's the worst that could happen? But like you, the second I saw the replay, I was like, oh God, this is going to be given. I feel for Ben White because it's not a mistake. It's not anything he can do differently. It's not anything he would do differently, I don't think. It's just complete misfortune. And he gets unlucky that Llorente miss-hits the shot. And Llorente gets lucky that he miss-hits the shot, which makes no sense whatsoever.

27:53but um yeah like you say once once they looked at it it was always going to get overturned and um it's frustrating um but i can kind of accept it in a way because it gets given consistently throughout the tournament yeah so i'm like you know what it's it's it's nonsense it shouldn't be a penalty but they're giving them so it is what it is it's kind of like um at the world cup in 2018 they started giving penalties for pushing in the box and they were We're always given. Okay, like, I don't like this. This is kind of nonsense, but it is what it is kind of thing. And a bit similar to this, but yeah, really frustrating.

28:31Kaya Kaynak: Was a bit, but if you're hoping David Ryan might pull off a save, he barely even moved. If Jokere's penalty was emphatic, so too was that of Julian Alvarez, who just, like, it's a great penalty. There isn't a keeper in the world saving that one, I don't think. And that's 1-1. And then there were two sort of things I want to just touch on here. One was that we very quickly made a substitution and we took Martin Odegaard off and put Eber Echiezer on. Camera cut to Odegaard on the bench. He didn't look particularly happy, I guess, because every player wants to play every moment of a big game. I do think it made sense.

29:14Kaya Kaynak: And I think in a wider discussion about substitutions, which we'll come to now in a minute, I think it does make sense because, as you say, we have still Premier League to play for. I think there was an element in this game of planning with the substitutions and the fact that we have to compete on Saturday against Fulham and then go and compete on Tuesday against Atletico Madrid. Odegaard is not long back from injury. Ezzet was thankfully available for this one and could come on. This felt like squad management rather than performance and hopefully not any kind of recurrence of an injury for Martin Odegaard.

29:57Kaya Kaynak: I think it was just a case that, right, we'll get him an hour and we'll give Ezzet an hour and make that change. So thoughts on that. And then obviously a couple of moments when Atleti were quite dangerous. Griezmann hit the bar with a kind of looping shot that went over Raya. And there were a couple of corners which we, I think, dealt with pretty well. David Raya was quite proactive last night. But certainly in that period of the game, Atletico Madrid were the better side and I think on top. Yeah, definitely. yeah once they got their goal and like we said after the free kick it kind of felt like they were in the ascendancy and Arsenal were on the ropes and they had to ride their luck a little bit because Lukman 100 % should score and Griezmann if his shot goes a little bit lower then it's a goal but yeah the subs what I thought I thought it was interesting I think Arteta gets a lot of criticism and I think kind of fairly to be honest for being someone who is too risk averse and not willing to take the initiative with his subs to kind of go and win the game sometimes I don't I think that was the case last night.

31:03And the fact that it came almost straight after the goal suggested that Arteta was understanding of the fact that, listen, if we want to change the momentum of this game, we're going to have to take a few more risks and we're going to have to try and get someone who can do something a bit different in the final third. And because Odegaard was, I thought, really good in the first half, but in the second half hadn't really done anything to trouble the Atletico back line or to pick it apart. So I think Arteta thought, listen, let's try something different. I don't want to leave here with one all.

31:28I want to go back to the Emirates with an advantage. so I thought it was a very positive substitution as well as the other factors that you mentioned there in terms of time management all our players are seemingly injured at the minute which is a nightmare as we go into the back half of the season particularly as we fight across two fronts and listen, I think if Mikel Arteta had his squad 100 % available to him we would have seen Saka start probably would have seen Eze start probably would have seen Habert start and we wouldn't have had to manage all these minutes like I think even White coming off towards the end for Mascara was probably a case of sharing minutes and that kind of stuff.

32:01So I think, yeah, that was a case of being smart with it, but also wanting to try and affect the outcome of the game you're playing and kind of both short-term and long-term in one move. And I thought, yeah, I thought Eze was pretty good when he came on. He's just different to Odegaard. He's not better or worse, he's just different. Because I think people use Eze's creativity and flair as a stick to beat Odegaard with. I don't think that's fair. I think the reason Arsenal were so on top and controlled in the first half was partly because Odegaard was so good. But once they lost that control, change it, bring someone else on.

32:34That's why you've got a big squad.

32:35Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, I think that midfield trio was really good and it worked really well in the first half, not so much in the second. And then there was, you know, a triple sub where he basically changed his entire front three. Again, you know, you talk about Arteta being perceived as risk averse. We've seen some triple subs this season and they haven't worked. They felt a bit desperate, you know, some of those changes when he's made them, it's like, oh, I don't really know what to do. I'll just throw three players on. In this instance, I think it's quite interesting because that front three of Martinelli, Jacarez and Matueke, not necessarily our most technically accomplished front three, but they were solid in possession, all three of them.

33:20Kaya Kaynak: The initial few minutes after we made that triple change, it took those guys a little while to get into the game And the Luckman chance that I think he should do better with comes maybe four or five minutes after those guys come on. But at that point, Atletico Madrid had had 70 % possession in the second half. From the kickoff of the second half to that point, they had had 72 % possession, actually. Where I think it gets interesting is the fact that in the final 15 minutes of this game, we played most of it in their half. And we'll come to the penalty incident, obviously. Possession flipped to, let me have a look, I've got the stats here.

34:04Kaya Kaynak: It went from 70 % possession to Atletico to 62 % possession for us. And I think it took a while for those three subs to make the impact that they did. But I think when you look at how you need to play a semi-final game away from home against a team like Atletico, like this to me felt like very mature, to use a word that you used earlier about Arsenal in Europe. Like I think at times, you know, better, maybe better Arsenal teams or more potent Arsenal teams than this have not been able to play in that kind of professional way where you say we still have 90 minutes at home. What we need to do now is not concede another goal.

34:48Kaya Kaynak: We've gone through a period of being under pressure. They've had danger. They've hit the bar. They've had that Luckman chance. How do we respond to that? Do we sit in and just invite more pressure, which has been something we've seen from Arsenal this season? What I really liked about the last part of this game was that for the most part, we played it in their half and just kept the ball and had way more possession and would not let them out. It's really interesting you say that because the eye test for me, I thought Trossard was not great when he came on. You mentioned that moment earlier when he kind of comes on almost with his first touch, I think gives the ball straight away in front of Arsenal's own goal, trying to do his twisty-turny thing that he does pretty well most of the time.

35:30And I came away from that thinking, wow, this is a player who looks really low on confidence right now who hasn't scored his calendar year and who kind of, you can see why he's not starting any of the big games right now or any of the games. will stop. Jesus, I didn't think he was great. I didn't think he offered any more focal point or link-up play than I'd seen Jokeres do, but I don't know. I hear those stats you're reading out, and I'm like, well, maybe he did. Maybe I just didn't.

35:56Kaya Kaynak: I hear the stats just as, you know, before we get into it. Trossard, I think you're right. You know, that moment where he came on, lost the ball, obviously sticks in our minds. 100 % pass completion, Trossard, when he came on the pitch. Gabriel Jesus, 75 % pass completion. In the 15, 20 minutes that he was on the pitch, he had two fewer touches than Yokeres in the hour that he had on the pitch. But Kai Osaka slipped over a couple of times, got tackled a couple of times, 91 % past completion. And he obviously was involved in that moment where Eza should have had a penalty. And we'll talk about that now in a second.

36:32Kaya Kaynak: So I know exactly what you mean about the eye test. But I think the ripple effect of those three changes was evident in the way that we were able to exert control over the final stages of the game. and I don't really remember Atletico Madrid doing anything in our half or causing us any problems when I think we've all experienced this season and in seasons past, you know, a scenario like this where Arsenal would have sat in and would have invited the pressure or said, fuck, we've got a 1-1 here. That's a good result. We'll take it back to North London. Let's just see if we can see this game out, and see out the final 15 minutes and try and keep them at arm's length defensively.

37:16Kaya Kaynak: Whereas I really enjoyed the fact that we did it in a very different way. And I thought that was a really encouraging aspect to this performance. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that performance last night reminded me earlier in the season, we went to Athletic Bilbao, who are not as good a team, but at the time, they'd just come off the back of one of their best seasons in recent memory. Had loads of good players, looked really strong. Maybe it's the country. The kits were exactly the same. It reminded me of that because Arteta changed that game, which had been pretty even. Arsenal had bits on top.

37:49Athletic had bits on top. And he changed that from the bench with Trossard and Martinelli coming on that night, I think it was. And it reminded me of that in the sense that we've been robbed, I think, almost this entire season of the squad that Mikel Arteta built to combat these kind of problems and to change these kind of games. And for all the talk of depth being the reason the squad was built, that's true. And that's helped Arsenal sustain challenges in both the Premier League and Champions League this season. But I think more important was the versatility and the different weapons to try and change a game and different tools to try and manipulate a game in your favour.

38:28And Jesus is someone who has not been at his best since he's come back from injury. and Trossard, like I said earlier, has been in poor form. Saka has got credit in the bank and unfortunately hasn't been out as best this season because of injuries, but I trust him when he comes on the pitch to do something. But yeah, like you say, it did change the momentum of the game. And yeah, it's really interesting. I'm glad that you told me that so I can reassess it. But I think I did feel like towards the end of the game, Arsenal were, like if it was an arm wrestle, Arsenal had sort of started to push Atesco's arm back towards their side of the table.

39:02Kaya Kaynak: That's a really good way of putting it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, look, let's talk the penalty that was and then wasn't. But Kiyosaka plays the ball in. The defender catches Eze. He goes down. The referee points to the spot. And then the game is re-refereed, basically. My feeling on this is that if he doesn't give that, I don't think Farrar is going to look at it and say, that's a penalty. you should go back and check and see that's a penalty. If he doesn't give it, I can sort of live with that. The fact that he's given it and then has been told to go over and look, and we can talk about Simeone and the proximity that he had to the official in that moment and everything else.

39:52Kaya Kaynak: You know, it was interminable waiting for, A, the ref to be told to go look, and B, the referee going to look. I did the timings on it. 77-28 was when the foul was made. 80 minutes and 51, three and a half minutes to overturn a penalty that, in my opinion, should not be overturned. I think there's contact. It's not the strongest contact you'll ever see, but I don't see in that moment that the referee made a clear and obvious error, and there was, let me have a look here, I want to just give a shout to Prashant on Blue Sky. Is that Prashant.bsky.social? And this is the wording of the VAR guidance from UEFA.

40:37Kaya Kaynak: If the VAR review provides clear evidence for a serious mistake in one of the game-changing situations, the VAR can then ask the referee to conduct an on-field review. The final decision can only be taken by the referee. did the referee make a serious mistake no no he didn't like all the talk around it and at the time on the commentary and kind of since i've seen pundits talking about it has been should this be a penalty should it be given as a foul that completely misses the point for me it's not whether it should be or shouldn't be i think you and i see how it sounds like we have a similar view that it's i wouldn't be upset if it hadn't been given in the first place but um you know i think there's enough there the question isn't should it be it's whether it is under the rules and for me 110 that is a penalty soft sure um fortunate yeah as they played for it yes has he won it yes is it clumsy from the defender though yes should he be sticking a leg out like that in the box no and it's quick thinking from Eza who punishes the smallest of mistakes from a defender in a high quality game with high quality players where the smallest of mistakes makes all the difference and I think I thought Arteta kind of summed it up perfectly where in his post-match where he said I can accept the Ben White one because that's the rule I can't accept the way that VAR has intervened in this to like you say re-referee it and I think when when the referee has to go and look at the screen 13 times that tells you it's probably not clear and obvious and they were kind of they were showing what he was seeing on the screen and it was there was the first angle that they showed about i think like maybe five six times the one where it looks like hansko treads on ez's foot and there's another angle from behind that they showed where it doesn't look so much like he treads on his foot and i'm like why why are you showing that second angle i don't think there's a need to show that second angle because the first one is kind of the one that tells you there is contact, he brings him down, he goes over.

42:50I don't even think he's necessarily got the biggest control of the ball if he's going to do anything damaging, but I think that's a penalty. And I think it's really frustrating. And I can't think of a single equivalent decision where a penalty as marginal or soft as that has been overturned by a referee in the Champions League this season. In fact, I look back to the Leverkusen game where Arsenal won a soft penalty towards the end of the match there. And Nani Maduweka goes down under similarly minimal contact. The VAR didn't intervene. I thought it probably wasn't a penalty, but I was kind of like, well, that's the right call because you stick with the referee's decision.

43:28You give him the authority on the night. And that is what it is.

43:33Kaya Kaynak: Sorry, I'm just going to play the Mikel Arteta clip where he's talking about the penalties and then he's asked by Sam Dean, I think it is, about whether or not the antics is maybe a word that sort of downplays a little bit what went on with regards to Diego Simeone and his staff on the sidelines, but whether that played a part in how the decision unfolded. So here's how that went down. In the manner that we're getting the penalty, very disappointed. And in the Premier League, it's not a penalty, but here I have to accept that with the rules and obviously how consistent they've been, for example, yesterday with Bayern Munich, I accept that this is a handball.

44:13What I am incredibly fuming with is how the hell the penalty on Epps gets overturned in the manner that happens when it's not a clear and obvious error. And this changes the course of the game and at this level I'm sorry but this cannot happen. Have you had any explanation on that? We saw the reaction of the crowd and the Atletico bench to that moment. Do you think that had any impact? That's nothing to do with that. I'm sure that they are very well aware of what the reaction is going to be. It's normal that reaction. We need to apply the rules. The same thing that I'm saying, that they apply the rules on Ben White's penalty.

44:47That is difficult to accept, but it is a penalty with a handbook and what they say at the beginning of the season. Epps is a clear and very obvious penalty. That's it.

44:57Kaya Kaynak: He gets stick, I think, Mikel Arteta sometimes wrongly a lot of the time, in my opinion, for complaining about certain things. And I think this is a really good example of how he says, listen, I accept that decision. Premier League is not a penalty. Diego Simeone's reaction and the crowd reaction, that's perfectly normal. Like you can understand why a manager will do everything in his power to get the decision for his team, right? Mikel Arteta would do it. The Arsenal crowd would do it. You know, that's normal. But what he's saying is the rules that they have laid out were not applied in this particular case.

45:36Kaya Kaynak: And that, I think, is obviously a huge frustration from an Arsenal perspective because, you know, to go there and win a game would have been such a huge boost. And I think we can say probably in the end, we can hold our hands up as Arsenal fans and say, you know, in the end, a draw based on what happened in this game and some of the chances Atletico Madrid had is probably a fair result. You know, I think I can quite happily say that that's a fair result. But at the same time, there is frustration that a key moment like that is so contentious and that generally, apart from Diego Simeone and all the Atletico Madrid fans, I think most people would say that process was really, really poor and not aligned with the rules as UEFA have laid them out.

46:25Yeah, if the managerial thing doesn't work out for Mikel Arteta, he should become a podcaster because he's nailed that articulately and succinctly there. He said it exactly right. I think Simeone is going to do that. Just like how the Ben White penalty kind of is what it is, Simeone is what he is. He's going to pressure the referees. He's going to get the crowd going. It's what he's been doing for 15 years at Atletico. If that gets under your skin, he's winning. So I think, you know, let him do what he's going to do. What surprised me is, and I kind of don't understand, the VAR guy isn't in the stadium.

47:01He's not really affected by Simeone's kind of histrionics and jumping up and down. If he is, then he's being affected by it through a TV screen, which is incredibly weak, in my opinion. So I think that the referee shouldn't have been sent over in the first place and shouldn't have been exposed in the first place to the histrionics. because Simeone in the first half was doing the exact same thing with the Ocarus penalty, which I think we've said earlier was a penalty. So I don't know what the difference is. I wonder if maybe because it was the third penalty of the night, maybe he didn't want to be giving three penalties in the same night.

47:32I don't know. I'm trying to come up with rational explanations in my brain for something that I think is kind of irrational. I think this is always the problem with VAR is you've got a guy who is kind of doing it based on vibes and he's trying to give a consistent approach that can't ever be consistent. and it's really frustrating, especially because, like you say, it was probably an even game, a draw, maybe not the worst result, and certainly not an unfair result. But Arsenal are in the midst of a tie-stall race right now. Every game matters. Every game is played because of the way Arsenal are playing in the league in particular.

48:09It's being played to every minute counts, every shot counts, every minor decision counts. And if you can get anything that goes in your favour, which Arsenal just haven't had in the past few weeks, like the Nick Pope red card, like with the Kusinov red card at City. I didn't think it was a red card personally. But, you know, if you get those things going in your way, they help massively. And Arsenal have had a few not go their way recently. And I'm wary because, you know, as Arsenal fans, you get criticised for many about referees and all this. And last season, we all remember it. But I think if you get something going in your favour and then to have it sort of snatched away like that, for a reason that is kind of BS in my opinion, It's really frustrating.

48:50And it does impact Arsenal massively now going into the weekend. It would have been a big game against Fulham anyway. But if you go into that second leg against Atletico with that advantage, it changes the game entirely, particularly given Arsenal are amazing at home in the Champions League this season. They've conceded once at home in the Champions League. No, that's not true. Sorry. David Rea has conceded once at home in the Champions League. Keppel was in goal for the Kyra game, wasn't he? But they've been superb. and for Atleti to come there knowing they need to go out and win changes the game entirely and plays massively into Arsenal's hands as well because it creates space that we saw last night Arsenal can exploit.

49:26So it's really frustrating and I think it was a penalty and yeah, I can't say it's BS enough times because it is. I sure, I know what you mean.

49:36Kaya Kaynak: I think, you know what I'd like to see as well is maybe one of the worries about VAR was that it sort of undermines officials. I think in, you know, in the ideal world, what VAR does is augment the authority of a referee or the officials in a game, right? Where a referee, we accept, sees things in real time and doesn't have the benefit of slow motion and all that kind of stuff. But on this particular occasion, I just don't really understand why a referee can't say, you know what? I made the decision and it was the right decision. and there is contact. And it's not like he booted him up in the air, but there is contact.

50:17Kaya Kaynak: That's why I gave the penalty. Like that referee does not second guess himself for a second if that foul happens in midfield. If that ball is on the halfway line, blows the whistle, gives a yellow, or maybe he doesn't give a yellow card, but he gives a free kick, play goes on, and nobody argues the toss. And I get that there has to be a higher threshold maybe for giving a penalty because it is such a good opportunity to score a goal. but I just wish referees in those instances would be a little bit stronger and have the strength of the conviction that made them give that decision in the first place.

50:53Yeah, I feel for them in a way because they've got all the assessors looking at them and all that stuff. But yeah, like you say, be strong, stick with your gut. If you felt it was a penalty first, it's probably a penalty in that instance. I think it definitely was. And I kind of felt like, like I mentioned earlier, with the angles, the way he was showing it, 13 times, slow motion. You're almost trying to convince him that it's not a penalty, which is not really what it's about. It's kind of like, oh, you effed up here big time. That's what VAR should be. If Eze had completely thrown himself in the air and hadn't been touched at all, no problem.

51:27But there was contact. He goes down theatrically, but there's contact. And it's a penalty. And it has been a penalty so many times in the Champions League this season. The night before, Luis Diaz's one was a penalty. basically the same so yeah it's annoying and um but part of me was like so arsenal have to just put this behind them now move on it's half time in the tie and all those cliches um not focus on it too much because simione wants that i think i think he wants arsenal to go in without the clarity they played with in the first half and the maturity they played with like we spoke about throughout most of the game so i think if they go into the second leg feeling super emotional feeling kind of charged up by it.

52:09I worry that that might not be as maybe useful on the night as they would want it to be, because that's the kind of game that Simeone wants. I think just forget about it. It's happened. It was nonsense. We all agree it was nonsense, but they have to go and try and win the second leg now, which was kind of the case anyway. So it's really frustrating, but they have to try and move on as quick as possible.

52:32Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, I was watching on Premier Sports last night here in Ireland, and we made a change. Christian Mosquera came on for Ben White as Gary Breen on co-commentary. And he says, he's coming on and he's going to be told, you get into that right back position. You do not go over the halfway line. That's what he's there for. I guarantee you, he's just going to slot in there and make sure that Christian Mosquera pops up on the edge of the box. That's a shot, which that's the first time he touches the ball is a shot from the edge of the box. And actually, you know, I get why he put his foot through it.

53:07maybe you want an attacking player there

53:11Kaya Kaynak: who can sort of roll it in low so the goalkeeper can't make the save. But listen, fair play, he was there. There was a Declan Rice shot as well, which went wide. And I think they had a shot late on. Was it Molina who just absolutely cracked one over the bar? So, you know, a bit of goal mouth incident in the seven minutes of injury time. But I think overall, as I said, a fair result probably, despite the frustration we feel. and I think a good result for Arsenal, as we saw in Leverkusen, 1-1, came back to North London, did the job there. You know, it's a solid result to bring back to the Emirates for the game next week.

53:49Kaya Kaynak: And I think as well, probably if you were being honest, if somebody had offered you a 1-1 last night before kickoff, I think most of us would have said, yeah, I'll take that. I'll take that. You know, in the context of a two-legged tie and the way these games often go at this stage of the competition, And I think it's a night from which, despite frustration, Arsenal can take quite a lot of positives. Definitely. And going back to the Emirates, Champions League atmospheres this season have been really fun and exciting because I kind of feel like the pressure's all on the league and that's maybe where some of the more touchy atmospheres have been.

54:23But the Champions League, I'm speaking for myself, but I kind of feel like I'm in tune with the wider fan base. It feels a bit like a bonus. If Arsenal win the Champions League, amazing. You know, that's something that none of us have ever seen before. but the focus is for me the league and that's what I think Arsenal want to win and that's why it feels like there's more pressure on those games so the yeah I think the fun will be there on Tuesday night I think people really go there to enjoy themselves and get behind the team like they have done all the time in the Champions League but since Arsenal got back into it I think that kind of I guess I don't think Arsenal were slow and risk averse last night but the kind of slow and risk averse football that Arsenal have played in the league at times this season I think actually isn't that bad in the Champions League and you can kind of accept it because these are two-legged affairs and everything is so casual and everything matters and the marginal things have to go your way and that kind of stuff.

55:13I think it's fine to play that way and I think most of the fans feel that. So I think the atmosphere will be amazing. I do feel that, yeah, going back to the Emirates, I think they said this after the game last night. If you'd said you've got one game at the Emirates against Atletico Madrid to get to the Champions League final and you have to win it, you'd take that. particularly given that Arsenal beat them 4-0 at the Emirates earlier in the season. So it does feel like it's a good position to be in. Not as it could have been, but still good.

55:39Kaya Kaynak: I'm sort of interested in, before we go, just sort of what you said about maybe not making it as emotional as Diego Simeone might like. I mean, he's a guy who always tries to make everything as emotional as possible. It's just kind of how he operates. We saw that with the Ben White stuff where, you know, he was taken to task apparently for stepping on the Atletico crest as the players were going off at halftime. Like, my feeling is that this is sort of, what's the word, orchestrated a little bit, you know? Like, if you don't want people to stand on your big giant crest that's right there in front of the tunnel, don't put the big giant crest on the pathway into the fucking tunnel, you dickheads.

56:26Kaya Kaynak: But that was a moment, obviously, someone said something to Ben White and Simeone. At first, it looks like he's coming over to sort of settle things down. And then he does the slaps, just that little bit too hard where you know he's at something. And you could see, by the way, I think it's an Arsenal security guy or one of the Arsenal people comes running over to sort that stuff out. Like, you know, it's absurd, really. You know, the idea that you can't stand on a crest for like, what the fuck? You know, it's not somebody's grave. But things like that, that they sort of set up and try and use.

57:08Kaya Kaynak: Like you want a big atmosphere. You kind of want to fight fire with fire. You want to be a bit shithousery, you know, at home. I'm not saying play them at their own game, But there has to be an element of that frustration that we have about the penalty, that nonsense where Simeone is sort of taking Ben White to task. And we know Ben White is somebody who is not averse to a little bit of that kind of stuff himself, right? So it's not that I'm saying we're holier than thou or anything like that. But there has to be a balance, right, between the occasion, a little bit of payback, you know, every little thing that you can use to get the crowd up and motivate the crowd.

57:48Kaya Kaynak: about, you know, do we have to lean into that a little bit or is it more about the tactical focus and the setup and the organization? Or at this point of the season, and you've said, you know, the Arsenal players look a little bit tired. I think there's clearly going to be elements of fatigue involved in this, that everything we can do to generate energy is something that we need to at least consider. Yeah, the bad stuff is such performative nonsense. like these players have been walking around spitting on the pitch for 90 minutes and now suddenly you care about this little bit of grass that you've painted red and white and blue like it's complete nonsense well they missed they missed the fact that like as simeone is slapping uh ben white declan rice just runs right across it as well nobody says a word it's just like selective outrage throwing of the toilet roll on the badge is that is that disrespecting i wonder like does that count that feels a lot more disrespectful to me then is it two play is it aloe vera maybe it's good toilet roll you know just wipe it clean the can do wipes they were throwing down but it was yeah it was it was nonsense and i think also would do well to get away from that kind of stuff whereas like the kind of thing that simeon is trying to engineer it to to get under your skin and to i don't know if that's during the game or something then he's going to try and get you sent off for it you have to be careful with that kind of stuff you have to have your brain switched on but i don't think there's there's i think you can use an arteta spoken about this a few times you can use the energy of the crowd you can use the momentum in a good way it's just a line that you have to be wary of crossing and i think against atletico madrid you have to be more wary than against pretty much any team in the world that you can step over and the emotion is great and the emotion works really well and some of the best nights in our recent history have been big emotional affairs like the real madrid one everyone was super pumped and it worked and it was amazing and i think you just have to be wary of the fact that simeone wants a certain kind of game and you have to be wary not to give it to him I think as much as possible but I think if Arsenal go in and put a kind of dominant display that they did in the first leg first half of the first leg sorry Arsenal fans will rise to it and and respond to it positively and it's it's it's a lot easier to play that kind of nice passy play when you've got people cheering you than when they're whistling and deafening like that so that's what that's kind of what I meant about the emotional element earlier it's just um don't try try and avoid giving Simeone what he wants too much, but don't let that stop you from feeling the emotion of the night and feeling the occasion of it all.

1:00:20Kaya Kaynak: Yeah, and you're absolutely right to say the occasion. This is a Champions League semi-final. You know, the game is, even Stevens, Honours even, on a knife edge, whatever way you want to put it, but Arsenal have the opportunity to make the Champions League final. And that is something that we should all be, A, very proud of, and B, looking forward to in a big, big way. So let's hope next week we can do the business and even if we don't play them at their own game, beat them at our game and make our way to Budapest for the final. Right, we better leave it there. Kai, as ever, pleasure to talk to you.

1:00:50Kaya Kaynak: Thank you very much indeed for your time and we'll catch up again soon. Thanks, Andrew. Really enjoyed it.

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1:02:38Kaya Kaynak: Thank you very much indeed to Kaya. Always great to chat with him. I think it was a really, really interesting game to discuss. And hopefully next week we can do the business, complete the job, and make our way to the Champions League final. Wouldn't that be something? First, though, we have a Premier League game to contend with at the weekend against Fulham. We'll talk more about that tomorrow over on Patreon. We'll do our regular Premier League preview podcast exclusively for our Patreon members. and to all of them, I want to say a huge thank you for their continued support. It not only allows us to do everything that we do on Arseblog with the blog, the news site, the Arsenal Women section, the podcasts, all of the stuff that we do for free for everybody is down to the fact that we have an amazing community who subscribe to us on Patreon, not only to get the extra content that we put out there, but to support everything that Arseblog does as a website or an online platform maybe might be the right way of putting it.

1:03:37Kaya Kaynak: Another thing that they help us do is give a bit back. In a world which is increasingly challenging and in which there is a grotesque inequality in terms of wealth and resources, despite the fact that there's so much of everything, there are still so many people out there who are in need. And I felt for a long time that if you have the privilege to have a platform like Arseblog, you have the ability to do something, however small it is incumbent on you to do that. And every April since 2022, we have donated every penny that we make on Patreon and more because there are contributions from other members of the Arseblog team as well to good causes and charities which we feel are aligned with the values that we have and which do their very best to help people in need all over the world.

1:04:32Kaya Kaynak: So this month, to give you a breakdown of what we are doing, we made a donation of 25 ,000 euros to the fundraiser, which benefits the Arsenal Foundation, which right now stands at over 600 ,000 pounds. I have to give Elliot from the Arsenal Vision podcast huge credit for this. This is something that we are really, really happy to support, but he is the driving force behind this, and he's the driving force behind this entire fundraiser for the last number of years. I don't know what the actual total is. I think it could be coming up on£2 million that this fundraiser has raised, generated with thanks to incredible generosity from the communities of both Arsenal Vision and Arseblog.

1:05:19Kaya Kaynak: It's an amazing thing. I think Elliot deserves a huge amount of credit. He's not doing it for that, and he would be reluctant to take it, certainly, but he is a force of nature when it comes to this kind of stuff. So we were delighted to support that again to the tune of 25 ,000 euros. On top of that, we have given 15 ,000 euros to an organization here in Dublin called Hughes House, who look after families whose children are in the children's hospitals here in Dublin. They provide accommodation free of charge. So families who are dealing with a sick child can stay together from all over Ireland.

1:05:56Kaya Kaynak: They can stay in this central place in Dublin. Don't have to worry about hotel costs, which are absurd like everywhere these days. It's an amazing organization, and we were really, really happy to support them. We've also given€10 ,000 to the Willow Foundation, which is a charity set up by Bob Wilson, of course, who provides special days for seriously ill young adults. 10 ,000 euros has gone to UNICEF, who do such incredible work looking after children in war zones, in areas of conflict, who are starving, who are displaced. We've been a longtime supporter of the work that they do, and we're happy to include them again this year.

1:06:39Kaya Kaynak: And the final donation is to an organization here in Ireland called MODRA. MODRA is the Irish word for dog. They're a dog rescue organization who look after and rehabilitate and rehome unwanted dogs, dogs who are abandoned. They find them homes. And if they can't find them homes, they look after these dogs forever. They do not do what some of the pounds do, for example, which is euthanize perfectly healthy dogs. I love dogs. I've always had dogs, as regular readers and listeners will know. So I wanted to do something to support the fantastic work that they do to look after our four-legged friends.

1:07:19Kaya Kaynak: So that brings the total in donations for the month of April to 70 ,000 euros. And the total since 2022, Arseblog has donated 291 ,000 euros to good causes. It's all down to the support that you give us on Patreon. And we're so, so grateful. And we're so happy to be able to do this. And I just think that if a random arsenal website and podcast can do this, it might demonstrate that other organizations might be able to follow suit. There are so many people out there who need a helping hand, whether it's local within your community or internationally. The reality of where we are now and how the world works, everything helps no matter how big or small.

1:08:06Kaya Kaynak: so just again thank you to everybody who supports what we do on patreon hats off to you we love you for it and we're really grateful to be able to do things like this and put some goods back out into the world because i think a it's needed and b we need to counterbalance some of the really bad shit evil destructive stuff that is just far too prevalent in 2026 right i'm gonna leave it there We will have a preview podcast for you on Patreon tomorrow. If you're listening to this before 3 p.m. and you want to get tickets for our event at Union Chapel, follow the link in the show notes. The final batch of tickets is going live at 3 p.m.

1:08:47Kaya Kaynak: today. They will go very, very quickly. You will find a link in the show notes. A huge batch went yesterday to our Patreon members. So thank you to all of them. And we look forward to seeing you at that show. 3 p.m. today, you'll find the link in the show notes. That's Thursday. If you're listening to this at five past three, it's probably a bit too late. That is just kind of how quickly these tickets go. Is that it? I think that's it. I've said all I need to say. Again, thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here, for listening, for downloading, for subscribing, for being part of this.

1:09:18Kaya Kaynak: I love you all, except for, you know, that guy and, you know, that other guy. Oh, and him as well. Yeah, no, I don't love that guy. But you guys, I love you. Thank you. And until the next one, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:09:59We'll be right back. Thank you.

1:10:50Kaya Kaynak: Hi, just a quick call. Just wanted to double check something not really making sense for me here. You know the big crest thing we got? Yeah, the mat that you put on the ground that has the crest. The big fucking mat, yeah. They're telling me nobody's supposed to walk on it. Is that right? Really? Okay. I mean, is it not a bit counterintuitive to get a big mat that you put on the ground because that's what mats are for, and then put that mat on the ground right at the entrance where everybody's walking? Uh-huh. Ah, I see. So what you're saying is the badge, the crest that's on this mat is so precious, so inherent to the values of this club, and that anybody who walks on it would be disrespecting that.

1:11:44Kaya Kaynak: It's an insult to this very institution. That's what you're saying. Okay. Okay. I guess it is what it is. I don't really understand it, But if that's how it goes, that's how it goes. By the way, what are we going to do with these 700 ,000 boxes of Atletico Madrid toilet paper? Hello? Hello?

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