Episode 878 - Keep the good times going

0:23Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. I don't know if my voice sounds any better than it did the other day with James when we recorded the Arsecast Extra. What I can tell you is that I feel about 700 times worse. It turns out that traveling a lot, hugging dozens, maybe hundreds of random people over the course of a weekend, and sitting in an airport where people were just going around coughing without covering their mouths leaves a man more prone to infection and illness.

1:07Who would have thought, eh? And when that man perhaps has left his immune system a little bit compromised by a series of late nights and perhaps just one or two drinks too many over the course of that weekend, well, the results are not good. I'm feeling pretty awful, like a bag of crap. I've got those fever-y nights where you're freezing cold one minute and sweating, and then you're roasting and clammy, coughing all over the place, but crucially, covering my mouth, even though I'm alone in my own office, whatever it is. There was a man beside me in the airport in Budapest the other day who had a coughing fit so bad I thought he might just die there and then.

1:52And not once during that coughing fit did he think to cover his mouth. I mean, it's not like we don't have any evidence from, oh, I don't know, let's say a recent worldwide pandemic that you should cover your mouth when you cough. Be a little conscientious, which made the next thing he did even more remarkable. He pulled a mask out of his bag and put the mask on. But it was too late. He'd already done all the coughing. What's wrong with people? Anyway, listen, I'm not good, but I'll get over it. I'll be fine. I'll recover from this champions lurgy, if we can call it that. It's mostly my own fault anyway.

2:29So I have to take the blame. This is the price you pay for a good time, I guess. And being lucky enough to experience what I experienced in Budapest and being there and everything else. However, the show must go on, as they say. and I don't have the, you know, when it's a play and there's a dude who's like, let's say you're the main dude in the play and then there's the guy who if you get sick, he goes on. What's that guy called? I can't remember. Billy Backup. I don't know. I don't have Billy Backup, so I've got to do it. So I'm doing it, but I'm going to share the stage, so to speak, with two people who joined me on the eve of the new season to have a chat about what we thought was going to happen, how we were feeling about everything, And I thought it might be interesting to get them back and to talk about some of the things we talked about back then and to see how they've stood up to the test of time, as well as continuing to enjoy the fact that Arsenal are champions and it seems to be bothering the fuck out of a load of people out there.

3:30So let's do it. And first up, it is my pleasure to welcome back Laura Kirk Francis. Hello, Laura. Hello. How are we doing, Andrew? We're good. We're champions. Don't know if you know that, but we're champions, still champions. yeah i'd forgotten i'd forgotten for 10 seconds there in all the madness also with us is andrew allen hello andrew hello good to see you all yes um we we spoke right on the eve of the new season and there was uh there were things said and it's not like gotcha things it's not like that but i just think they are quite interesting and we'll we'll touch on a few of those but laura let me ask you first how has the last sort of two weeks been um i feel like i'm paying the price for that physically mentally and everything else you look sparkling in comparison uh i presume you've had a wonderful time i have but i am also as you say very much paying uh the debt back the bailiffs have come to collect my will to live because i've been overspending on joy i think for the past two weeks or so um top health tip for all the listeners um if you drink heavily eat nothing but bready carbohydrates and don't sleep for two weeks uh at some point your body's gonna tell you to stop um and mine told me to stop at about nine o 'clock on monday morning that was that was it really um a couple of days later i do feel a bit better um i went on monday afternoon to sainsbury's and bought myself one of those big innocent smoothie bottles just full of fruit hoping that that would undo weeks of abuse to my body.

5:08It didn't, it didn't, but we have been trying to at least drink some water for the past couple of days. So it's been amazing. I regret nothing. But I think once you're over the age of 30, there is a debt to be paid and I am paying mine now. Yeah, certainly. I look at those drinks in the supermarket. I just call them makey better drinks. And I sort of invest a lot in them thinking, you know what, if I just drink this, that will certainly undo all the bad stuff. I haven't found one that works yet, unfortunately. But, you know, we'll get there in the end. Andrew, what about you? Obviously, you did the Budapest thing.

5:43You did the early morning flight back to London thing as well. You know, it's a lot. It's a lot, you know, to go through after everything that we've done this season. And certainly, you know, since that Tuesday night when we won the league because of what Manchester City did at Bournemouth. You know, are you holding up? Are you coping with it all? Physically, I feel okay at the moment. I had like a massive back spasm the day before the Burnley game, which I think was the tension of everything just sort of physically catching up with me. But that's died down. I have to say today is probably the first day in about two weeks where I've not just been kind of welling up over something for no apparent reason.

6:30And I've cried more, yeah, certainly in the last two weeks. And I can remember crying for a very, very long time and for various reasons, not just kind of slow motion montages set to North London forever and stuff. Yeah, it's been, God, it's been some two weeks. I think when you've waited that long for something like that to happen, you're just kind of like praying it lives up to expectations. and despite what happened in budapest it just it has it's absolutely i've absolutely maxed out on fun over the last couple of weeks and like it's come in different waves different with different people you know there's been family and friends and people i rarely see who've been involved and um yeah i've just i've tried to embrace every minute of it and you know write stuff down and just kind of really think about how I'm feeling because the last time it happened in 2004 I didn't really do any of that just kind of took it a bit for granted so yeah it's been it's been an amazing amazing couple of weeks.

7:36Was it what you were expecting Laura you know we all I think over the last number of years have thought like what will it be like if we win the league how will I behave how will I celebrate I think this is sort of for me anyway gone above and beyond anything I experienced before for title wins or certainly thought it might be when Arsenal finally got over the line because, you know, we've come so close and all that kind of stuff. But the organic nature of the celebrations which began that Tuesday night and then were replicated after the Palace game on the Sunday. And then, of course, the sort of more organized parade and collection of Arsenal fans.

8:18it just feels like it it's a party right we're gonna have another party i better have a fucking even bigger party this time it's i don't know it's like you feel like you're missing out something this weekend that there isn't another party i i think um throughout the season although i've repeatedly said to people are you know i'll see you at the parade i don't think i've ever really actually allowed myself to think about what that might be like so I had no sort of thoughts coming into this about what it might feel like because I just couldn't bear the agony of starting to think about it and having it taken away so every moment has just topped as you said the last one and when you think you've experienced joy and that's the kind of peak of it it's just it's really really leveled up i think the the bit that's really stood out for me is quite how emotional it's felt experiencing it with people that you love um and the people that you do it with that's really what has made this so very special for me um and i was i was in france when we actually won the league when bournemouth drew uh we were at disneyland with family who are visiting um my wonderful family who live in australia they were taking their kids to disneyland paris so my husband and i hopped over to join them um and once it had been confirmed that we had had won i just i wanted to ring my brother um because he is the person that i've experienced this with and i wanted to ring him and we just sort of cried down the phone to each other for a bit and that's really what this has felt like um it's it's just wanting to experience this with with the people that you love because really there is there is just nothing better than seeing the people that you've been there for 20 years watching this wishing it um seeing them happy as well that's kind of my emotion is i'm so happy for obviously myself but i'm so happy seeing everyone enjoy this with everyone else um and i kind of keen to keep it going you know you kind of clutching onto it and hoping that we can make it last a little bit longer but with thanks to the arsenal social team who i imagine haven't slept for three weeks or so we will never forget this because the the difference i guess between this parade and these celebrations and 20 years ago is just how much it gets documented um and i sat and watched the 20 minute long uh youtube video that Arsenal put out yesterday of the parade and I put it on I put it on my big telly started watching it on my phone and thought no no no this deserves big screen um so I didn't have any expectations coming into this because I couldn't I couldn't bear to bring myself to think about it and it not happen but it's just it has blown me away and I I can't believe how much I've cried there's been a lot of crying um like you said I can't stop crying at things that shouldn't make me cry but that's ultimately an outpouring I think of how long it's been and how much we've wanted it and if I've got to sit here crying at a video on the tube and and have people staring at me and wondering if I'm okay fine yeah that's that's going to be the summer ahead I think I think we've all been there you know I think I said to James on Sunday I read Andrew's piece about the parade in a taxi on the way home from the airport on Monday from Budapest and just sat there like Egypt just sort of crying and I think you're right you know that we're right to enjoy this I think it's it's right that we enjoyed there's a whole summer to come of like other nonsense and transfers and all that kind of stuff I think we need to kind of keep it going as much as possible what I've enjoyed I mean listen you're right you know to share it with people you love your friends your family whoever it might be if they've come from far and wide I think it's amazing I think what's added real flavor to it for me is just the sheer randomness of of some of the connections that you make yesterday i went into the pharmacy to look for medicine please because the makey better drinks don't work so i had to go get actual medicine and i was wearing a sort of arsenal hoodie and the lady in the pharmacy was going were you there were you in london i was going no i was in budapest i've come back with something from budapest and she was like we went to london we went to the uh to watch the game on saturday evening her husband and her two sons they just went to be there to experienced the parade she said it was amazing obviously the final didn't go the way that they would have wanted but the kids just had a an amazing time and i think those sort of connections you make with people on the basis of you know it's normal right to to connect with your family and friends andrew when when there's something like this going on but as we saw with the parade i think the parade's a brilliant and really powerful example of this is that the the the thing that sort of binds us all together as Arsenal fans, whether we know each other or don't know each other and all the other differences that might be made, you're still sort of right there next to somebody who just wants to have that joy and have that moment with you.

13:27Yeah, I think Tim sort of said something really interesting, I think, on the Arsenal Vision podcast the other day, just around how the parade really was kind of like a, I mean, it's just such an open event for literally anybody to attend. Because obviously, for those of us who get to go to games regularly like we're incredibly privileged and you suddenly kind of realize the context in which you're able to go and see games when you see a million people out there and then see you know the the hundreds of millions if not billions of people who are watching the champions league final and suddenly you realize you're really in the center of the world from a sporting perspective um that really hit home and um yeah i mean the parade was was a beautiful thing i mean like you know i live in brixton in south london and as soon as i'd got home from from gatwick you know there were just there were two things going on in brixton there were arsenal shirts rushing towards the tube station and there was a festival called mighty hoopla taking place which is very big with the lgbtq kind of crowd and it was a real kind of like coming together of two people in the high street just just before kind of like uh celebration yeah of the party and it was um yeah it was just it was just so fascinating and colorful and just you know my tube journey in itself was was a story let alone what happened you know on the way to the actual parade and stuff so i mean it was um yeah it's just been it's been really really fascinating interesting and again like just heartwarming to see how um how everybody was on the same page everybody can kind of like for once all the division and all the rhetoric that we hear every day in the press and everything about what state London is in and, you know, left this and right that and all the rest of it.

15:12Everything just for a few days there just seemed to be put to one side. And, yeah, I think we really have to cherish that. And it's a reminder that we're far more similar than people will sometimes let on. Yeah. Laura, you know, the idea that the parade is for the fans is obviously a compelling one, right? And it is. And it was an amazing experience, I'm sure, for anybody who was there. I saw the videos and the footage and the pictures, and some of it has just been breathtaking, really, just the extent to which people want to go to celebrate something like this. But I also think for the players, this must have been like – we saw how they reacted in that video when they're all gathered at London Colney.

15:59They're watching the Bournemouth game, and fair play to them for doing that. I couldn't do it. But the way they just sort of jumped around and everything else. But to sort of experience that the day after, obviously, the final in Budapest, they've worked really hard. They've come so close. They have felt that frustration as much as any of us have as fans. And I think for them as well, to get that back and to experience that from a million, million and a half people on the streets of London must have been just overwhelming. So an experience like, oh, I'm a Premier League title winner. Yeah, I scored the winning goal to get us the title.

16:44But for all of them to be there and experience it in that way with those crowds of people, I just can't ever imagine that it's something they'll forget. Yeah, the video that really made me cry was the one of Myles Lewis Skelly doing, I think, Andrew, exactly what you were just saying there, which is just look at all these people who've come out for you. And as a Premier League player, particularly Arsenal, you're playing in front of 60 ,000, 70 ,000 people each week. Actually seeing that many people, a kind of physical representation of how big this fan base is, how committed this fan base is as well.

17:24And that's one of the reasons I was also on one of those awful flights out of budapest that left an hour late from the worst terminal in the world um landed at gatwick at quarter to five i fell asleep on the tube on the way home i ended up i don't live far from you but i ended up nearly at morden right at the bottom of the northern line because i was so tired and when i got home and tried to get a little bit of sleep i went to sleep thinking to myself I'm not sure I can bring myself to go to the parade. I'm so tired. I don't think I can do this. But I actually thought to myself, I owe it to these players.

18:04And I'm one of what probably was over a million. But I felt like I owe it to those players to go and give my thanks to them and to celebrate them, even if it's just a glimpse of them going past it. What I will say was a little bit quicker than I thought on the bus. It sort of zipped past me a little bit quicker than I thought. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I was like, oh, and they're gone. Cool. Off they go. Gunnasaurus on the back of the last bus just disappearing into the smoke is an image that will stay with me forever. But I think as a player, you can't imagine that. Even when you see on social media, and we know the players are on social media, they've seen the videos of the Tuesday night.

18:46They will have seen the videos of the Emirates after we lifted the trophy. But to actually be sat on a bus a few metres away from millions of people who have climbed lampposts, got up at silly o 'clock in the morning to get a spot on the barrier, you'll never forget that. And I also think it will, to a certain extent, give them a little bit of hunger to do it again. Because although if we go again next year, it won't be the same because we haven't waited as long. The outpouring of joy, the celebration, the smiles, the complete diversity of people that you will have seen from the bus. That's just going to stick with you forever.

19:30You're going to want that again. I already want it again. And it's been barely a week or so. I already want to experience that again. So as a player, you can't imagine what that feels like until it's done. And yeah, the video of Miles Lewis-Skelly just kind of taking it all in, tears in his eyes, it's just the best representation because nothing can prepare for you. The sight of the bus going past, I think it's the old High Brindersington Station with the people on the roof, it's like something out of a film. And I just don't think you forget that as a player, you'll want it again, which is good news for us.

20:06I mean, that was a, you know, not dissimilar experience to yours, Andrew, in that you were sort of weighing up whether to go or not. And then obviously making that decision and realizing that if you hadn't, it would be something you'd regretted for the rest of your life. yeah i mean there was a there was a sense that because i was setting off so late that i wasn't going to get anywhere near somewhere where i'd actually be able to see it but actually seeing the bus as laura points out was actually not really the point i mean it was obviously lovely to see it but when it goes past and you only get about 10 seconds with it it's actually the hours beforehand that you're standing around with people and joking and bantering and you know if you're lucky enough to be there with other people that you know then the time you get to spend with them as well and everything that goes around that i mean i was yeah i was tired but i've also been talking about the bloody parade all fucking season telling people they're not invited telling people they are invited so like you know if i didn't turn up to the damn thing i mean i wouldn't have ever been able to look at myself in the mirror again i don't think so yeah that was enough i just needed a shower i think that's what it was once i had a shower yeah i was good to go You're the parade police, you see, alongside.

21:19Well, I mean, it's a reaction to the celebration police as well that we've had to deal with for three odd years. And, you know, I can't help but think, you know, that part of the reason the celebrations went so hard was a bit of a fuck you to everyone else. Right. because we've been told don't celebrate scoring goals don't celebrate winning games don't celebrate in march don't you know all the time we're being scolded like school children don't celebrate don't so you're not allowed to celebrate until you win and then of course when we do celebrate and we do win everyone's oh look at them think they're so great fucking having a parade you know i i honestly think andrew that that's part of it it's a it's a pushback right yeah i i also think that um after all this time there was a desire to just show everyone collectively how big we are and i don't even think most people at the parade realized themselves quite how big we are i mean even i didn't realize how big we are and i knew we were big um and then you know just to that's london right but look everywhere else look at look at the reaction around the world.

22:27I mean, they were having their own parades in capital cities across Africa. You've got the Empire State Building in red and white. You've got buildings in China going in red and white. I mean, just to see that even with thousands of people traveling from all over the world to be part of the London parade, the fact that these things were happening organically everywhere else, I mean, it's just mind-blowing. And I think, yeah, you're right. I mean, we've been under the cost for a while um as you may have noticed um people like to take the piss out of us and we we get you know we want to hit back and we've done that in style this time i don't know whether we'll ever well look you know in a weird way i hope we never get i hope we never experience it in quite the same way again because to do that would mean that we'd gone a long long time without winning a trophy my hope now is that we can somehow kind of maintain some level of consistency at the top.

23:22But clearly, you know, without the shit, the good ain't so good. And, you know, we had 22 years of comparative shit and we really made a good time of it at the weekend. So, yeah, let's see what happens next. But it was really magnificent. I remember I had one moment with my brother the week before the parade. So after the Palace game, and he's over from Australia as well, like your family, Lord. And he just kept saying to me, it's even better than I imagined it would be. And it just, that really stuck with me because I felt like that is basically where I was at as well. Like it was even better than we could imagine.

24:04Yeah. I mean, like I said, I could not have imagined it being quite as, I don't know, all consuming. You know, I feel like there's so much that I still haven't seen. you know that you mentioned the 20 minute video i haven't yet seen that so that's something i'm going to have to to rectify laura but there's just so much like every time you turn on your computer every time you look at instagram or so it's like holy shit like picture compilations video compilations all of it it is just people want to keep this going as much as possible and to to sort of share the the enjoyment which i think again i think is important and we should do it because it can't last forever and it shouldn't last forever but it doesn't mean it has to be sort of done and dusted in a day right you've won it well done congratulations now you know manly handshake off you go impromptu gathering at the emirates on saturday unfortunately boys are playing but we could you know 200 000 of us just stand outside and sing arsenal songs and ruin their comeback yeah yeah yeah i'm on board with that you know save the people from boys on i say but yeah i mean it is it's been incredible laura it has what makes me really laugh as well is the the sort of the celebration police have been on us all season and now we've had this outpouring of joy enormous numbers around the world and and yet i've got people beefing with me about the official attendance numbers which is just so sort of sort of funny really because all season you've been telling us not to celebrate and now that we've had our parade it's well it wasn't as big as Liverpool's well okay why do you care why does it make a difference what's the issue here so I think if we take anything from this and I know lots of people know this already is that do whatever you want as an Arsenal fan because nothing you do will be right so enjoy the freedom that gives you just do whatever you want let's have our parade behave in a way and and i think the like 99 of the parade was very very friendly uh fun joyous kid friendly i actually had a friend join the group of friends that i was with who who didn't know anyone from the friends and just said look i've got no one to come with can i join you the answer is always yes and as said andrew about the the lady and the pharmacist if you've got an arsehole shirt on join in come and join in this is this is one big family um and there will be a point in in the next couple of weeks where we turn our attention to going again but that will never take away from how this has felt and how it still feels to to sit on social media and watch all these videos um and long may it continue really um and i just think as i said the celebration police have been telling us that we are celebrating like we've won the premier league all season now we've won it you still don't like it now what yeah i just you wait till we win that champions league and then you'll see something well that is for sure um i mean we talked in the uh the episode in august andrew about the pressure that was on the manager and on the team and on, you know, Arsenal to deliver this season.

27:30This is a little clip of something you said, something we'd have to contend with. Having to deal with the conversation, it's just going to be the way it is, right? I mean, it's going to be social media clips of Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher sticking the knife in when we lose and every other talk sport radio station and, you know, ilk doing the same thing just to fill the airwaves with something. I mean, I can't lie and say that for all the joy of winning the Premier League after so many years on a purely footballing basis, you know, there's a lot to take from that. I can't lie and say that there wasn't part of me that was just like, now you guys can shut up.

28:13You can just shut up for a little bit as well, right? And that was something we had to contend with throughout this season. We didn't lose too many games, thankfully. But when we did or when anything went a little bit wrong, it was... I don't know if we've really understood the pressure, the external pressure that was on this team over the course of this season. And what a relief it must be for them to have delivered. You know, because I understand and understood why Arsenal were in the spotlight. We're the team that finished second three years in a row, right? That's normal. Can they get it over the line or will they be the nearly men?

28:54Thinking now just of those Liverpool fans with their bridesmaids banner. Just going to have to put that to one side, chaps. Unlucky. But, you know, that was something that as fans we have to deal with, but also the team and the manager, who I think throughout the season played it almost perfectly when it came to moments like that, when the pressure was on and when things were being said, you know, he dealt with those things in a really, really, I think, important and positive way. Yeah, I mean, I think Arteta's communication throughout the season has been exemplary. I still think the pressure got to the players at times And I think that probably shows through in some of the football that they played and particularly in the specific game states of matches when really we should have been nailing teams.

29:49And instead we were hanging on for one too many one nils, you know, and that obviously kind of grips the crowd. And then you've got the narrative around Manchester City chasing us. And obviously, I mean, look, they closed us down. They took the lead and we had to bounce back again from that. But at every point, I felt like the manager had the words to calm the situation, to reframe the situation, to bring a new context to things, and then to kind of release us to go again. There was obviously, I think, the post-Mansage United meltdown that everyone had. And I think we then played Kyra maybe. And Arteta kind of gave a really stirring speech and got everybody back on board.

30:32That was a really pivotal moment. But I also wondered whether he'd kind of gone too early with his kind of stirring speech, because I thought, hang on, there might well be a few more of those. Obviously, the draw with Wolves was another moment where I think we were all really, really tested. And personally, I feel like that plus the Bournemouth games were the real, real low point, where I thought, shit, we might actually buckle again here. But they kept finding a way. And I think, you know, when you've been 22 years without a championship and a huge number of people following the team haven't experienced exactly the highs and lows and how deep into the season those highs and lows can go before things are settled.

31:19You just don't really know how to deal with it. But yeah, they were under immense pressure. And I know that we've spoken about kind of maybe next year they'll be able to play with the handbrake off and all the rest of it. I mean, frankly, who fucking knows? I mean, there's just going to be so many moving parts now with the World Cup on the horizon, like what players are available, who isn't available. You know, I just, we don't know. And obviously we've seen Liverpool this season and how quickly things can be derailed by, you know, internal things, external factors you've got no control over as well.

31:56So, yeah, that's why it's so important to enjoy this summer, because this summer is going to be over in the blink of an eye. And then it all starts again. And the same chat on the radio stations from the same pundits is going to be there. People are going to be jabbing us. They're going to be coming from slightly different angles, different directions. And again, we're just going to have to sort of hold firm. But it's so important that people spend the next few weeks really, really enjoying it, making the most of it. getting their own, you know, uppercuts and jabs in if they need to with people who've been bugging them.

32:30And then, you know, we buckle in again. Laura, your view on the way Mikel Arteta has sort of handled himself and handled the team, because it's easy, isn't it? Listen, you can talk a good game, but you've got to deliver at the end of the day. And you can tell people to get on your fun boat. And then you go, hey, this boat is not that fun, actually. It's fun in the end but the cruise itself is like going through a storm and coming out at a tropical island something like that but you know i feel like that is people accuse him of being quite cautious at times maybe overly cautious maybe you know that that plays into the kind of football that we play but that's also you know to talk the way he talks at certain points in the season is is sort of brave because you're sort of and there's another example of this that we'll talk about now in a minute but you know you say something and it doesn't happen it's a stick that gets used to beat you with over and over and over again um thankfully that's not the case though yeah I think at points in the season hearing him talk like that it's it's okay with hindsight now because we have we've got it over the line I did feel quite rattled by some of it um and found it frustrating to I think be told to be all in get up for it every game is a final all the way back in I think you know January February we were already starting the kind of the mighty charge to the finish line and that felt for me too early too emotional and there were times I have to be honest where I saw Arteta and the quotes that he was coming out with and just thinking, can you just dial it down a little bit on the metaphors, on the rhetoric?

34:24We're on the boat, we're on fire, it's going to be beautiful, etc. But I think in the moment, as Andrew mentioned, those two games, the Wolves game and the Bournemouth game, were so kind of at odds with what he had promised, I felt myself quite rattled by it. and doing that kind of, but you promised me, you told me it was going to be okay. I'm looking to you for reassurance. You're not going to finish second again, are you? Surely, I need the reassurance from you. And instead, I'm sort of getting, you know, bring your breakfast, lunch and dinner. Oh, by the way, we've just lost to Bournemouth.

35:04However, there's been lots of clips circulating of when Arteta signed for Arsenal and his first conference that he gave. And he looks very, very young and he's very, very stiff and very media trained. And he talks about, I've prepared for this moment forever. And you can see the contrast between what he was like when he first arrived and how comfortable he feels now having a bit more personality. And that's the personality that rubs everyone up the wrong way that we absolutely love. So I think now that we've done it, I can go back and maybe enjoy the quirks of Arteta and the quirks of the freak, for want of a better word, that we have at the helm and go, it's madness until you get it done.

35:48and then it turns into genius and and that for me when i look back over the various press conferences had i'm like yep that's why you're sat there as a premier league winning manager you knew all along uh what was going to happen and i'm sat here um the one thing that i think is interesting though is is it's sort of come out after we've got it done about i think he was asked whether he had moments of doubt and he says effectively yes there were moments of doubt although at that point I'm like oh you're you're not meant to have doubt I'm allowed to as a fan what do you mean you had doubt as well but ultimately the talking is done on the pitch and we've got it over the line but yeah I'm looking forward to seeing what metaphors we get next season because he's really set the bar quite high for nonsense but as I said it can now be genius because you've won a trophy.

36:45So by all means, crack on. Well, that's it. We talked often about maybe the perception of Mikel Arteta changing by virtue of success, by virtue of winning things. The example is with Diego Simeone, for example. Why can he charge up and down the sideline? Well, he's won a couple of La Ligas and he's won trophies, whereas Mikel Arteta was five, six years without a trophy. Maybe the perception of Mikel Arteta going into this season versus next season will be slightly different here's a little quote from you laura uh you were talking about him uh i just thought this was quite funny because um well it's not that you were wrong per se but somebody came along to make this extremely wrong i have no doubt that the furore over the michael michael arteta is the most quote-unquote linkedin manager there ever was will continue but that's Unfortunately, it's a very easy way to get clicks.

37:41But I think anyone with a brain knows that it's much more nuanced than that. I mean, I think we knew it was much more nuanced than that. But I also don't think we expected the most LinkedIn man alive to emerge during the course of the season. Wow. I mean, to your point earlier, I don't think the view of Mikel Arteta will change because he's won a Premier League at all. I think that's just not going to happen. the people have made their minds up about what type of manager he is. And that is the way it is. But yeah, thanks to Liam Rosinia for his little cameo this season for making Arteta seem normal versus what he brought to the table.

38:27Do you think it might change at all, Andrew? Do you think the fact that he is now a Premier League title winning manager and there are only very few of those, do you think it will be different or will it be a case of well of course he had to do it you know it's beforehand it's like he must do it it had been three times second and then when he does it it's like well you had to do it you're a three times second you know it feels like in certain aspects of the media and and we know that there are places without the nuance that we're that we've got here and that laura mentioned you know they don't they don't um they don't do well with nuance because it doesn't really do what they want it to do when it comes to how things are clipped up and sent around on social media etc etc these days but like do you think he deserves to be perceived slightly differently now because he's won or does it really matter uh is that just us looking for him to get more flowers i i look i one i don't think he himself will particularly carry the way what people think of him outside of the club because the club is everything to him and he's central to it he's been central to the last six years of progress and he's the man who's taken us over the line so i don't i don't i don't i don't lose too much sleep about what other people think about the manager like he's got his you know there's there's some kookiness in there he's a football freak i think is what josh kronky described him as and And I think he will get a lot of respect for what he's doing.

40:02I think he probably had more respect out there than a lot of people kind of in the media were maybe giving him credit for. I think in, you know, amongst his peers and within the football fraternity, I think there was a huge amount of respect for what he was doing. And you can see that with the way that other teams are paying attention to our tactics and replicating them and all the rest of it. but he um look i mean laura referenced that first press conference and and and while he was you know very clearly quite raw he also said a lot of stuff that he meant he talked about having a plan he talked about you know sticking to his guns and the fact that he needed to build the connection with the fans and all the rest of it and that the tree would rock and all the rest of it and it has all of these things have happened and yet he's come out the other side and he's been able to prove himself correct.

40:53And, you know, I think when you have led Arsenal to a title, but even the second place finishes, taken us in the quarterfinal, semifinal, final of the Champions League, there were not many better managers out there. And I think, you know, when we go to renew his contract this summer, there's a fairly high chance there won't be many paid any better than him in the entire game you know with guardiola gone um i don't i'd be surprised if there are any managers being paid more than him and it will be frankly as far as i'm concerned just reward for the work he's done because he's poured his absolute heart and soul into things um the only thing i wonder is how how long can he sustain that energy because he has really been going for it and I think he needed this win right just to to keep him going keep him believing as well because I think it would have been very easy to doubt himself if if we'd come second again so yeah look I I don't care what other people think I haven't really from the start I don't think he will but I do think there will be a little bit more respect put on his name as a consequence of this for sure do you think Laura it might change him a bit as well you know with the pressure off and it is you know something he's been trying to do for well obviously since he arrived but but realistically it took a couple of years to make arsel a team that could potentially challenge for a title and then maybe that first year you could see we weren't quite there we didn't quite have what it took second year was obviously a bit more disappointing like i don't really know that there's you know a world in which michael arteta having won the premier league decides now I'm going to become Arsene Wenger in terms of how I want my teams to play.

42:43I think that streak of pragmatism, which has been key to getting us where we are, you can't do away with that. It's like a stick of rock, the word through the stick of rock. But with some of the pressure off, might he be more inclined to take a risk here or there? or is it more about what he needs to sort of put in place from a footballing perspective this summer that might change those things? I'm not sure he will ever change because he set out very clearly from the start that he has a plan and he has a plan. And while we from the outside feel like winning a title has proved something, it's proved that we are a good side, it's proved this, that and the other, don't think Arteta thinks like that at all I think he is very set in his ways this is how I want the club to function I want the players to feel and this will this this isn't proof of that working it's more well it was always going to work it was just a matter of time and so going into next season I imagine depending on the personnel that he brings in I can't see a world in which he he changes a huge amount because he's always been even when it didn't work very very sort of resilient in terms of this is going to work um and just winning the premier league i imagine there will still be a lingering and persistent feeling that there is more to be done but the way that we do that is by doing more of the same um i i imagine as we look at who we're going to sign and who we're going to bring in they will need to fit into the existing arsenal culture arsenal dna how how we play how we behave not be a catalyst for change um and i think that all comes down to as a fan i feel like uh we have proved the doubt is wrong whereas for arteta he just sees it as the inevitable outcome of a plan he's had in place since he arrived and so why would you change it um I I would I would love him to maybe chill out a bit I would I would I'd be happily doing what uh Ezra did and maybe saying look boss we've done it is it all right if we just take a little breather here but I can't see that happening because of who he is and now that we've got the first one done it's right we carry on to the next one etc yeah that is the challenge Andrew isn't it you know and how you present that challenge to the players the Champions League Obviously, if progression is linear in the Champions League under Mikel Arteta, then we're winning it in Madrid next year.

45:35Book your Airbnbs now. Yes. Yeah. Take the Andrew Allen handbook and figure out how to do that. Someone was saying all the hotels are already all booked up. And I don't quite know how that's the case. It's Madrid, but I'm sure. Probably the way to be fair. Yeah, probably. I've completely lost my train of thought. But no, the idea that you could retain the title, I mean, as you say, it's kind of up in the air, like all the players going off to the World Cup. I've got no skin in the World Cup game at all. I know there'll be people listening to this who want England or France or Brazil, whoever it is that they support to do well.

46:14All of them out in the group stages for me. Let the lads go on a bit of a holiday. Come back, get rested. Because the schedule is actually just fucking crazy. You know, I don't know how they're going to come back and get ready to go at the start of a new season, but the challenge is going to be, can you do it again? Can you retain a title? And that's the thing that people say is the most difficult thing to do. Arsene Wenger was never able to do it, even though he should have done it in 2003, but for that game at Bolton and a couple of other things. I know too soon, too soon. But you know, that is going to be the way he has to present it to this team, right?

46:52Yeah, I mean, the World Cup really is a spanner in the works, I think. With 16 players away, many of whom could progress quite a long way through that tournament, who haven't had any kind of break for, I don't even know when the last time they probably had a break. You've got really no idea how those first weeks of the new season will play out and also how in the long term the fitness of the players will be affected. And like, you've got to be honest, I mean, while we had quite a few injuries this season, we were able to manage them. And actually, by the end of the season, our injury situation was pretty impressive.

47:29I mean, we had so many players available going into those last few weeks when it really mattered. We just can't predict how that's going to play out. So I think, you know, there's going to be some squad turnover. Who does he go to bring in? How does he balance that out? you know we've got a squad at the moment that seems has been in perfect harmony all year but there's going to be some fringe players who leave when you go to recruit who gets shuffled down the pecking order do you go for young players to sort of keep the the older heads on on their toes or do you bring in experience and really really challenge some of those guys who are settled in in key positions.

48:08I'm really, really interested to see how all that plays out. I also think it'd be interesting to see if there's any backroom staff changes as well, because obviously last summer we lost Carlos Cuesta and then Gabriel Einstein came in and apparently, you know, his presence has been really, really important. You know, we all know that Sir Alex Ferguson used to sort of mix it up quite a lot there as well. We needed more menace. That was the thing all along. Carlos Cuesta, lovely guy, but we needed someone who, you know, would. Yeah, and when you say that, I mean, it's really funny because I think Arteta in one of his, after they'd won the league, one of the interviews, he said, the squad is just so nice.

48:45And at some point I did wonder whether or not they were almost too nice. And that's an accusation that has always been thrown at Arsenal, but we've managed to find a way to win with nice boys, which is, you know, another feather in his cap, I have to say. yeah look I almost don't think so far ahead as next season because it just sort of fries my brain a little bit you know I just want to lie down for a couple of weeks and just sort of chill out but it's definitely going to be a massive massive massive massive challenge and I think the leeriness of the fans is really just going to you know it's going to really annoy some of the other fans and I think a lot of other clubs are going to be very very up for taking us down obviously um you've got some really interesting managerial appointments happening chelsea liverpool um we have no idea what's going to happen with city but hopefully they're playing their football in the fucking you know national league north or whatever the fuck it is um but let's see like i mean it'll be really interesting to see how our rivals shape up as well because i guess at least the world cup affects everyone well that's true i mean laura uh last last season when we spoke, I asked you both to give like a grade to the transfer window.

50:01And you're both more or less the same. I think you gave seven out of 10. At that point, I think we still had, the Eza signing hadn't happened. We talked about rescuing him from the bad place. And thankfully, we did that. You know, as it stood, though, you both gave seven, seven and a half out of 10. And would you have any differing view on that now? Or was it a case that even if one or two signings didn't quite do what you might want, or with the consistency you might want, what we did was sufficient for us to get over the line and win the league? Yeah, I think, wow, that feels a bit harsh, actually, looking back on it, that I gave it a seven and a half.

50:45But hindsight is beautiful. I think it's one of those transfer windows where you look at how the season has played out. The ones that I really thought would smash it out of the park haven't, but they've still done very well. So Giocares, I think it's quite a difficult one to assess Giocares because ultimately he has lifted the Premier League title and scored, I don't know, he finished on 18, 17, 18 goals or so? 21 goals in all competitions. Right. So it seems insane to be giving that any kind of criticism. I think if I actually look back at the cleverest signings and they were, I think, in July and maybe in September, respectively, Higcapier and Muscara have made such a difference to us this season, particularly at the back end of the season where you expect players to be injured and tired.

51:45and we have seen in previous seasons our entire season be derailed by injuries to Gabriel, to Saliba. And with no disrespect to players that have gone before, I think Kivior did a fantastic job when he was called upon. Hincapié and Mascara really have stood up when we needed them to. I think it's a real shame that Mascara's season has ultimately ended how it did in Budapest. But ultimately, it's really interesting to see who I got so excited about joining and thinking they would make the difference. When actually, Arsenal are such a brilliant example of the sum of all parts being greater than the parts themselves.

52:34And you think about we were desperate for a striker and thinking that would make all the difference. whereas actually if I really look at how we've got over the line it's intelligent use of defensive players that have kind of made up for a difficult attacking season. We finished that Champions League final with Giocares, Madueke and Martinelli which has been a difficult watch to be honest all season but we were able to hold PSG at bay because of our defensive structure and it's funny that those are the two players that really I think about as being brilliant. That's not to suggest that Zubimendi as a gyokras haven't played their part, they have, but really this has been a resilient and excellent defensive team and I think that's why we are where we are.

53:31So I still think seven and a half is a bit harsh, man. Maybe I'll have to think about that when we do this again for our transfer season. Well, yeah, I'll tell you what we'll do is we'll do it again. You know, the eve of the new season, we'll get you two back and get your marks and see, do they stand up to scrutiny? I mean, you gave seven and a half, Andrew. It was Laura was the mean one with the seven, but, you know, I thought it was interesting what Laura says there about Incapia. He played nearly as many games at centre half as he did at left back, which shows you, you know, how important he was to the team, particularly in that period when Gabriel was out injured.

54:05I mean, is there anything that stands out to you now when you look back at what we did last summer? Is there, you know, any assessment or reassessment? I mean, I think if we were giving those marks before we did the Eze deal, both of us would probably top them up by at least another one. At least, yeah. I mean, hard not to. I have to say, by the time the Eze deal came through, I didn't think it would happen because I just couldn't see a summer in which we spent that amount of money. But ultimately, it proved very, very important. I mean, he's maybe not hit the absolute heights, but he has been a very, very useful player to have around, really fun player to have around.

54:47And it sounds like behind the scenes, also very important voice in the dressing room, you know, a guy who is so relaxed, I'm surprised he can even fucking walk onto a football pitch. I mean, he looks like he just wants to spend the whole time lying down. um he's um so yeah i mean that would have maybe made a slight difference it's funny isn't it because i if you'd asked us at christmas who was the standout player we'd all of a sudden zibamendi and the second half of the season he's kind of tailed off for whatever reason i don't think we we're completely clear on that whether it's a fitness thing fatigue thing whether there's other stuff going on um but um in capier yeah i think he was a slow burn for a lot of people who didn't quite see him for what he is, but he's exactly what Arteta said he was, which is a warrior.

55:33Jocheres, I just don't know what to say about the bloke. I mean, you can't not love the fact that he tries, but you can also hate the fact that he can't control a football sometimes. So, you know, that combination is quite exasperating because you're kind of like completely conflicted about how you should feel about the guy. For what it's worth, I think, he'll be sticking around and I suspect he'll probably be able to build on where he's been so far. I hope that the team as a whole has kind of got a bit more used to him. Mascara, brilliant signing, just, just like really, really interesting signing, you know, Kepa, Madueke.

56:10I'm a bit kind of like, you know, I think as we all were at the beginning of the summer, kind of a bit like, well, if they're just coming in to be backups, then that's fine. Madueke's had a couple of moments, I think. And again, And I think it's really interesting that maybe like England have selected him for the World Cup to sit behind Saka as well, ahead of many other players who might have had that role. I think there's something to be said for a guy who recognizes his place in the pecking order, but also backs himself to try and, you know, improve his lot. And he's stepped up a few times. He just he's just not Bakaya Saka.

56:44but then who is? So, yeah, look, I mean, they did, they set the bar very, very high and there's nothing Arsenal fans like more than transfers. And I can't see us doing what we did last summer. You know, it'll be really interesting to see if we can actually get some money for the guys who are on the edges of things for once, because clearly we're under pressure to maybe balance the books a little bit. But, you know, that's sort of offset by the fact that we've just sold, you know, an Adidas shirt to literally every fucking person in the world to the back of winning the league. So, you know, there's commercial deals will be going through the roof.

57:23Our prize money's going through the roof. Nobody will have better broadcast income than Arsenal this year in the whole of world football. So, yeah, make money, spend money. Will it be a summer of six signings again? I don't think we need that. I think, you know, I think already looking at some of the links, this young Jeremy Mung guy from Leicester is maybe an insight into where Arteta's head's at. Like, let's start shaping the future while the present's already good. The only one I would say that we got wrong really last summer was Christian Norgard. For whatever reason, he didn't really have the faith of the manager in Premier League terms.

58:01Maybe Zubomendi's season lasts a little bit longer if you've got a player that the manager trusts more. but you could understand it at the time and why they made that decision. Some quick ones just to go out with. I won't say who said this, but someone, and I think we all kind of agreed, Spurs would be less of a joke. So, hands up. I think it was me. Listen, I'm a gentleman. I'll never tell. But they were more of a joke, which was great. I enjoyed that. And Thomas Frank certainly gave us a good joke with his coffee cup and all the rest of it. It really has been a season of vestibules, isn't it?

58:44Whether it's this one, the Arsenal bottle, the coffee cup. Yeah, who knows? And yeah, you can drink out of trophies as well. Did you know that? The other thing, you both picked a player to keep an eye on. Laura, you said Riccardo Calafiori and not just because he was an Italian stallion. which I think is fair. I think he was really, really important in that first half of the season where when I think we played our best football, it wasn't just down to him, but he was certainly in the team. It was his longest run in the team. Who knew he was such a big Adele fan? None of us. I don't know. But he's been good, but maybe the injury issues that sort of cropped up in the second half of the season might just explain a little bit why some of the Real Madrid chat is going on at this moment in time as well.

59:38Yeah, I think it's a real shame because he offers us so much when we are playing very predictably. He's one of those players where you just, you can't take your eyes off him, but equally you can't keep a track of where he is on the pitch. It's fascinating to watch. I will physically stop him leaving Arsenal If I have to, you know, strap myself. Yeah, if I have to just stop oil myself to the plane, taking him to Madrid, I will. I think if he can sort his fitness issues out, but I do remember saying that last year and thinking if he could just stay fit, he's going to be very important for us. Has he proved that he can just stay fit?

1:00:26Not quite. Like he, after the international break where he played, I know he played a lot for Italy and they went out on penalties. He played a full 120 minutes or so. He disappeared for a while and has been in and out of the team. But yeah, I would be, from a purely footballing point of view, I will stress, I would be gutted if we let him go, especially to go and play under Mourinho. That would be a travesty. No, I agree with that. I agree with that. You picked Saka, Andrew. You're looking for him maybe to get back to his best. And I'm not sure he quite did that. He still ended up with, I think, 11 goals and seven assists.

1:01:0811 and seven, maybe. So in goal contribution terms, it wasn't bad. But I do think it's fair to say we didn't really see the prime Saka that we were hoping will be back after that hamstring injury last season. yeah he's just he's not quite himself is he i mean i think it's he's clearly been carrying stuff over the course of the season um was it an ankle injury i remember the the away game at leverkusen when he just looked so off the pace like i literally he's like i think that might be the worst i've ever seen him play and then he kind of disappeared off the back of that game for for a while um yeah i mean frustrating i just um the guy's been carrying the creative burden of the team for so long that um it's it's impressive that we've been able to kind of shift some of that around in his absence but clearly there is no like for like bukaya saka replacement out there i don't think um i again you know i've said it a few times but this world cup slightly worries me because I think there are very high expectations that England will go deep into the tournament.

1:02:21All the signs suggest that Tuchel would like to play Saka regularly as a starter. If he's still labouring a little bit, because he certainly still didn't quite look himself towards the end. I mean, he flashes, right? That Fulham game, brilliant take on, ball across the box and goal. It's just sort of, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'd be tempted to kind of say exactly the same answer if we did a preview for the next season now, I'd like Saka's the one to keep an eye on. But that's only because I know that he's got other levels to get to. But let's see. He's got a documentary now as well, it seems.

1:02:54So we'll have to check that out. Final thing, I mean, we've learned over the course of this season, Laura, that the players are very, very, very online. They're aware of the memes and all of it. I did very much enjoy Declan Rice's Instagram montage. I'm not the biggest Coldplay fan in the world, but if you're going to use them to stick it to Gary Neville, then I'm all for it. Yeah, and I think it's a two-way street, and we often forget that if you're going to dish it out as a fan, you have to be prepared that the person that you're dishing out to is going to see it. And I think a lot of people forget that.

1:03:39If you're going to have a popper, a Premier League player, or a pundit um i've had a back and forth with gary um we're sorry jamie carrigan on on x before and uh it's it's it's all fine um but you have to be prepared that if you're going to speak on social media there is every chance that the person you're talking about is going to see it and what's been funny uh over the course of certainly the past couple of weeks is is seeing people kind of retreat a little bit because they clearly can dish it out but can't but can't take it um and i i'm all for the players being able to have a have a pop back because they will have taken abuse all season um from from rival fans from their own fans as well and so to be able to have that little moment just to have a bit of a dig back and i loved josh cronkey as well number one he was probably one of my mvps of the parade when he went past me on the bus he was wearing the velvet jacket from one of our um various many merchandise launches and he was pumping his fist like you wouldn't believe um i'm surprised that the liverpool fans weren't accusing him of copying clop's fist pumps at the crowd he was giving it the biggins but him giving gary neville that shirt on the episode of I think it sticks football or the overlap whatever it is really funny so it's just they are online they do see and some of it may have even fueled this win which I think is an even better thing to think about that every moment that you spend abusing our players that's that's ammunition for them to go out and do exactly what you don't want them to do um so yes they're chronically online but so are we it's it's not it's it's to be expected it's not done uh but it is now uh that is the uh that is the end of this we we better get it done and get it out there that's sort of dishing it out not taking it it's uh what do they call that andrew the stan collymore edict i'm not 100 sure you've got your history there you know what i was actually really really gutted that villa won the fucking europa league because otherwise i would have had an absolute field day giving it to stan yeah yeah i've not had any interaction with him for a while but maybe i'll um send him a shirt with easy next on the back and tell him to fuck off please do all right listen uh both of you thank you so much for being here uh enjoy your summers laura uh thanks a million and uh we'll we'll chat soon awesome thanks for having me enjoy being being out there everyone enjoy every moment of it being sufferable will be annoying bring up arsenal whenever you can um because as soon as you know it'll be august and we go again but for the moment yeah long may it continue andrew thank you very much indeed lovely to see you get well soon thank you very much indeed to laura and to andrew good chats and a way of keeping the good times going for as long as possible because hey why the fuck not my good time right now is uh Lemsip Max Strength, 1 ,000 milligrams of paracetamol in there, along with a big dollop of honey to try and keep my voice in check as well.

1:07:03So I'm going to leave it there for this particular episode. I do not have an end bit at the end of this episode because I just, I literally can't. But just a short note to say thank you to all of you as ever for being here and for listening, for downloading, for subscribing, for being with us through the bad times. so we can all experience the good times when they're really, really good. And they are good, and they have been good for the last two weeks. And I hope you, wherever you are in the world, whether you're in North London or North Macedonia or North Pole, I hope you had a great time, and I hope you're still enjoying it because this is what it's all about.

1:07:41This is what it's all about. Okay, thanks again for listening, folks. Take it easy, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:08:02I'm out.

1:08:23Thank you.