Episode 879 - Farcical FIFA

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1:25Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. I'm still suffering a little bit with whatever thing I picked up in Budapest or on the way back from Budapest. My best guess, and I say this as somebody with zero medical knowledge or experience or training or education, is that it's some kind of COVID variant or COVID related type thing, because it is not pleasant. It remains unpleasant, but it is slightly less unpleasant than it was before. I can't say I'm better, but I'm definitely not as bad as I was.

2:12However, if at all possible, I recommend you avoid this. Like, I know it's easier said than done. It's not like you're walking down the street and there's a bunch of guys who are coming towards you who look like, you know, they might be up to no good. So you cross the street to avoid them. It's not quite like that. But if you can steer clear of this one, please, please do. Nevertheless, we're here. We're hanging on in there. We're doing the blogs. We're doing the podcasts. We're getting the stuff out to you as we wait in this part of the world for just a little bit of summer to arrive. That would be nice.

2:49Looking out the window here and it's, uh, you know, it's pretty gray. It's a little bit rainy, bit more sun would be nice. Bit more heat would be nice. Some vitamin D would be very much appreciated. So if universe mother nature, whoever is out there, if you would be so good as to give us just a little bit of that in Ireland, I'd be very, very happy. I'd appreciate that a great deal. Anyway, wherever you are, I hope you're all right. I hope you're doing okay. There is a fairly big football tournament about to begin, and I think it says quite a bit about this tournament that it's not something we've spoken about much on the podcast, to be honest, and it's not something I've written about much on the blog until today.

3:34I wrote a little bit about Gianni Infantino, not one of my favorite people. So you can go over to arseblog.com and have a little bit of a read of that if you want. And he is somebody who we're going to talk about in this episode, as well as talking a little bit of Arsenal as well. Because my guest today is somebody who's been on this show many times. And over the last 20 years, we haven't been able to talk about Arsenal winning the title. So I would like to do that with him, even though winning the title happened, well, a few weeks ago now. But I don't think it's too far away to continue to enjoy it.

4:06So we're going to talk that. We're going to talk World Cup, and with me to do that today is Philippe Oclair. Good morning, Philippe. Good morning to you, Andrew. We have spoken on this podcast many times over the last 20 years, and at no point have we had the privilege of talking about Arsenal winning the title. So I know we're on the eve of the World Cup. It's actually not even the eve of the World Cup. It is the day the World Cup is starting, and we will talk about that in due course. But I did want to talk to you about the title and the celebrations and the experience of it all. And as somebody, you know, who I think has been batting for Arsenal in difficult circumstances on other platforms, for example, you must really have enjoyed the last couple of weeks.

4:58Philippe Auclair: Yes, and the thing as well which I've really enjoyed is that it was not just schadenfreude, that it was genuine joy and that I think we saw the absolute best of our support as well. at the moment where it mattered the most and in those absolutely extraordinary celebrations which went on for days and days and days like an old-style country wedding. And almost all of it in a really peaceful, joyful, stress-free, violence-free, considering how many people there were in the streets of Highbury in North London. and also what's so enjoyable is that despite what happened in the final of the Champions League I really do not feel I do not have a sense of a missed opportunity in that context as in we were not favorite we gave a really good account of ourselves I thought we were admirable in that final and this is where I went to bat for the Arsenal I have to say and I had to take quite a few bounces because for some people, for some reason, people decided it was anti-football, it was a disgrace, it was morally bankrupt or whatever, which is total bullshit, of course.

6:24Philippe Auclair: But even that didn't throw a dampener on things. And I think, I don't know if you feel the same, but there's a sense of calm since then, since the titles. Like this huge weight has been lifted and the memories of all those, we were nearly there moments, or we were not there at all moments. Suddenly, everything feels right with the world. And obviously, very few things are right with the world at the moment, but this is one of them. Yes, I think that's true. And I was, I have to say, slightly fascinated by some of the reaction to the Champions League final that, you know, We talk about what's right with the world and wrong with the world, and those are big questions, and we'll probably have to delve into a few of those when we start talking about the World Cup and the way things have been going in that regard.

7:19But as a Frenchman, I know this is something you're acutely aware of, is that the sort of perception of Arsenal versus PSG in this game, I haven't been that well since I came back from Budapest, So maybe I'm only on this on a very surface level. But for me, it was just so strange. Well, maybe not strange to see that PSG are sort of held up as this exemplar of what football should be. Right. The perception of Arsenal is this defensive, dour team that we're only trying to hang on to their one goal lead. And PSG, they're the team that plays football the way it should be played. but without any of the context as to why it is they can play the way they play.

8:06And look, they've got a brilliant manager. They've got brilliant players. But, you know, this isn't a piece of organic evolution, perhaps. This is manufactured. This has taken a long time and a lot of money. And it has done, in my opinion, in the same way that Roman Abramovich did harm to football with Chelsea. see PSG have done immeasurable harm to football in the way that they have operated. Was it a surprise to you in any way that there wasn't a bit more focus on that? Or is that just simply the world we live in where people go, yeah, that's what it is. People either don't care to look at it that way or they look at it that way and they don't actually care about it because it's easier to compartmentalize and easier maybe to stick the knife into, I'm going to say in big inverted commas, underdogs arsenal because they don't care for the way we play they don't like the way michael arteta sometimes steps out of his technical

9:02Philippe Auclair: area i think it's both uh i think on one hand there's a very strange um chasm between the team psg and the club psg um which is not something that you will see for example with newcastle or with Manchester City, where there is almost an osmosis between the owners of Saudi Arabia and the UAE, Abu Dhabi, and PSG Qatar. And it's quite strange. It's something that actually I've thought a lot about because I don't think that the PSG fans have got any kind of emotional relationship with their Qatari owners. You can put this out of the equation. contrary to the relationship that Manchester City fans have got with their genocidal owner, Sheikh Mansour, which is something which should be said and said and said again, that he is part of that family which is supporting the biggest genocide happening right now in the world, in Sudan.

10:16Philippe Auclair: But anyway, just a detail these days. and so there is a disconnect between you know it was very easy to when we had the team of Mbappe Messi Neymar Zlatan and so forth to look at them and to say oh that's Qatar SG and the problem is that they've created a team which is a proper football team is playing beautiful football we'll agree with that with a manager who is actually quite simpatico in his weird manic way but suddenly a proper football person. So, and which makes people forget about, as you rightly say, where this comes from. Because what we're saying is PSG 3.0 or 4.0, but it's still the same people.

11:03Philippe Auclair: It's still Nasser Al-Halaifi, who is the minister with our portfolio from Qatar, the man who controls French football and you, up to a point, controls European football. and that yes it's not organic psg i'm not saying that psg is a plastic club they're not a plastic club they existed before the qataris and they will exist once the qataris have gone their recent club which is different but what people are and especially in i mean i'm not talking about france because uh there's so many uh people who are basically propagandists for psg in the media it's it's just uh you have to you have to love what they do very few questions asked but i've been surprised that here this hasn't been the case there are exceptions i think miguel delaney was one um i tried to put my you know my pen earth of salt uh and got absolutely uh i mean it was unbelievable the reaction um to that despite the fact i'm no longer on x and um people were saying you know that it was a classic example of what about tree yeah but look at you look at you with your visit rwanda and fly emirates and your trump supporting owner and uh and it doesn't matter how many times you say well i've been talking about fly emirates which is why i use the grove when i talk about that stadium i've been talking about visit rwanda In fact, I've actually talked about Visit Wanda, I think, probably earlier than any other journalist.

12:40Philippe Auclair: And I've talked about Kronke, and I'm not a great fan of his. And I've said all these things, but I feel, why do I have to justify myself? We're talking about two completely different things here. And the fact that people are not able to do the distinction between a club which has grown organically. Yes, Mikel Arteta has spent a lot of money. of course he has as has every other club in england to be honest but this money is not dirty money you might not like the fact that it comes to start with from an american billionaire who is the biggest landowner i think in america and did give some money for the inauguration like i think every other billionaire in america that's not that doesn't mean it's great means it's awful That's not what I'm talking about.

13:29Philippe Auclair: But the project is actually financed. It's almost self-financed, to be absolutely honest. It has been all of the time with Arsene. And now what we're seeing, we're seeing, well, we're seeing investment from the owners who have realized that there is money to be made in success. and it's completely different from a project which is meant to polish Qatar's image and to have to give Qatar as well a really stronghold in France because France is a hugely important economic partner and diplomatic partner for Qatar this is not the same thing at all and I'm astonished that the difference isn't being made and that you have to explain things as if to a four-year-old, but actually four-year-olds are actually a bit more open-minded than the people I'm talking about.

14:20Yeah.

14:22Philippe Auclair: And you go absolutely nowhere and you end up having to justify yourself and you're thinking, well, that's crazy. I mean, to be fair to you, Andrew, I think the one thing that has really disturbed me the most about Arsenal and the way that we fit in, in moral terms. The Emirates stuff is bad. The Visit Wander stuff is really bad. Kronko is Kronko. But the one thing that has stuck in my croix Thomas Partey, the way we managed that was appalling. And I think we deserve all the criticism we're getting on that. And I think that that's correct. For the rest, I think it's very much a case of stones, glass houses, and a total lack of perspective.

15:09Philippe Auclair: I think I put it to a friend of mine. I said, when it comes to football, modern football, especially if we are supporters of clubs, which are big clubs, it's all about, we're confronted with a pyramid of shite. And the question is, up to which level are you prepared to climb to support your club? And I think when it comes to Arsenal, I think we talked about that. I think if Aleix Arousmanov had bought the club, that would have been curtains for me because of what the man had done in his life and the type of people he was associating with and also the way that he was a Putin asset. So, but I'm not at that level.

15:50Philippe Auclair: But if I were a PSG fan, I think I'm actually on top of the pyramid of shite and I'm actually shitting on everybody else. And I think that if you don't see the difference between the two you have a serious problem of perspective you have and this perspective will not be just about football it would be the way you approach life your whole life in general yeah it is and always has been a sort of a matter of cognitive dissonance or moral compromise to some extent or another and we all have to live with that in in the best way we can And I think your point, you know, and I met PSG fans in Budapest and I saw so many Arsenal fans in Budapest and I saw the scenes in North London.

16:33And I think we at times have to maybe separate the fans from the institution to an extent, right? Because we don't make a choice. Like we don't make it, you know, you're brought up an Arsenal fan because your dad was an Arsenal fan or you fell in love with Arsenal because of Thierry Henry or Dennis Bergkamp at a World Cup, ironically enough, whatever it might be, right? We all have this commitment to the club. And to some extent, we are representative of the club. But, you know, the club doesn't necessarily always represent us. And I think you're right to sort of say that over the last couple of weeks, we have seen the very best of Arsenal fans, the best of what the club itself can generate when it comes to the kind of unity and inclusion and diversity and all the things we thought would be a matter of course, perhaps in 2026 when we were growing up.

17:29and you're thinking, well, when we get to 2026, we are going to be living in enlightened times. And that's not necessarily the case, unfortunately. But I think what we saw then is, if we're talking about organic, right? That is pure organic human behavior coming together in unity and love for a thing that has brought us all together. And I remember on the Sunday morning in Budapest, I was walking back to my hotel. I'd gone out to get a cup of coffee and I was obviously a bit sad. And there were two PSG guys walking up the road. They were maybe my age, thereabouts. And they were just having a laugh with each other coming up the road.

18:08Maybe they hadn't been to bed, you know, and there were just two guys going along, having a great time together. And I sort of looked at them and thought, you know, that could have been me and my friends. It's not. But they're just living that experience in the same way that we would if it happened to us. but it is completely distinct from the club or the ownership of the club or whatever way you want to try and parse that kind of hierarchy.

18:36Philippe Auclair: Yeah, and you know what? For me, there's an example when I'm asked about this, there's an example that always comes to my mind because it was a case of absolute dissonance on my behalf. It was the Qatar 2022 World Cup starters. and it came when Saudi Arabia beat Argentina and I was absolutely delighted. Now, you would think, oh, come on, you were cheering on the team of this appalling regime and so forth and blah, blah. And I thought, no, actually what I'm applauding is the Saudi people. There's two different things. The Saudi people are the first victims of the regime, for goodness sake. and that's for them.

19:19The joy they're feeling is not, you know,

19:24Philippe Auclair: is pure human joy of seeing your team, which has never been, you know, the greatest, not ridiculous, but not the greatest, suddenly beat a massive team in the World Cup and you rejoice. And the players were beside themselves with joy and that was beautiful. And the fans were beside themselves with joy and that was beautiful too. And I don't give a monkey about what Mohammed bin Salman was thinking in his palace, because for me, it had nothing to do with him. So you can make the distinction, but you have to be aware of how you're making the distinction. There's a very important nuance here. So I can understand the joy of PSG fans, especially when they have a team that, unlike the previous ones, they can genuinely identify with in terms of the football they play and in terms of the people who are playing it.

20:14not talking about the owners once again, but they, you know,

20:19Philippe Auclair: it's their second title in a row. They never thought something like that would happen to them. They were the also rants. They were the laughingstock of Europe, basically. So, yes, I mean, you know, happy for them. I've got a few friends who are for PSG fans. But, again, it's all about awareness. And this awareness is going to be tested to the limit over the next month or five weeks. I think it already has been and when and I don't know honestly Andrew I really couldn't care less about this World Cup I really couldn't I'm going to have to cover it because and really apologies for people who would rather I slept rough in the street I have to make a living and so I will report on the games I'll probably do a podcast with the Guardian and a few other people But at the same time, I will also be talking about what's off the pitch or rather also what is part of football in that particular World Cup.

21:18Philippe Auclair: But that's going to really test me far more, even more than Qatar 2022 and Russia 2018 or even I would say Manchester City. This is really the ultimate test when it comes to cognitive dissonance, awareness, self-awareness and how you communicate and how you do your job and how you live that, not just as a journalist, but as a fan as well. Well, seeing as we're on to it, I did have another Arsenal-related question, but maybe we'll get towards the end. But we're on the World Cup now, and it starts this evening, and it is in the spotlight, as a World Cup should be. And I think, you know, regardless of how old you are, how long you've been watching football, the World Cup is a tournament that creates indelible memories.

22:04right and and i said this on the blog the other day i remember watching the 1978 world cup final from under a chair in the sitting room being desperate desperate and i don't really know why i guess because like my family around me were all up for for holland for the netherlands being desperate for them to win and being distraught when they didn't when they were beaten by by argentina in that world cup and then you go to 1982 and northern ireland and 1986 1986, staying up late to watch football from Mexico. And 1990, from an Irish perspective, was obviously huge with Italia 90 getting to the quarterfinals and on and on and on.

22:44But it feels like more and more we are having to contend with the hosts and the destinations of these World Cups more than we ever had to previously. Right. So there was scrutiny of Russia in 2018. and I think that's justified. Scrutiny of Qatar in 2022, absolutely justified as well. Therefore, any scrutiny of this World Cup and the part that's being held in America is also open to scrutiny. And I think with the benefit of hindsight, maybe some of the conversations we had around the Qatar 2022 World Cup will have opened our eyes in terms of how we discuss certain matters and how things are perceived in different parts of the world.

23:33But this one, it really feels like the final culmination of where Gianni Infantino in particular is taking FIFA and taking the world game. And it's really hard to separate football from the politics and from the destination. And people will always say you should keep football or keep sport and politics separate, which doesn't make any sense to me. I think it's bullshit, really. But it's impossible, isn't it, when FIFA themselves have completely and explicitly tied themselves to the political aspects of what's going on in America right now?

24:12Philippe Auclair: It's impossible. And I think also that aspect is also invading the pitch, so to speak, because we're going to have those compulsory drinks pauses, which, to be honest, in some of the games will be, I think, a very good thing. Because talking about temperature of 38 degrees in New York this weekend, which is what? You can't play in that kind of temperature. Well, but they will have to. and so we have that we have the fact that there's going to be a half-time show in the finals so FIFA is impinging as well on the actual game in many ways and it's been I mean I was expecting the worst but I didn't know the worst could be that bad and he is I mean I don't get me started on jenny infantino no no please let's get started on jenny infantino because i'm i'm this man this is i think i'm here for you see morally morally morally bankrupt uh i've written a piece actually for uh french column for eurosport uh which i don't think i can quote in in your um for libel reasons okay in your podcast i don't want you to get in trouble in france i can do it um just about some interesting reasons why uh jenny infantino is the current president of fifa and what the united states have to do with with that i'll keep it at that for the time being okay we'll put a link and people can translate the article and very easy um you know it will show you know it's published i think tomorrow and um but anyway um so the man is tainted um where to start with Gianni Infantino.

26:01Philippe Auclair: First of all, I used to know Gianni Infantino when he was General Secretary of UEFA, and he was a very different type of character, if not necessarily the most amenable of persons, but he was quite helpful. He could be quite entertaining in private company. He had a very good relationship with us journalists, and so on. He was a different animal. I think it's more a case of somebody who is really, really clever, but not very intelligent, who gets basically the acquisition of power has made him become the worst version possible of himself. And he's also hostage to a situation he's helped create and he's created in many ways, but he cannot control and he doesn't really understand.

26:53Philippe Auclair: He's not a strategist. He's a tactician and he's very good at that is a manipulator is an autocrat he uses the carrot and the stick um he but he also lives now in a kind of never never land where he genuinely thinks he's doing the right things surrounded by sycophants like all autocrats are like the people were surrounding donald trump in at the white house or vladimir putting in the kremlin in um he is unbelievably greedy which is an aspect of him i didn't realize was there but he's unbelievably greedy not just for fifa but for himself as well yeah and everything every decision is taken has been uh with the sole aim of developing fifa's absolute power in the world game and also to get as much money as possible in the coffers through the meanest things possible, such as what they tried to do with bringing water in the stadiums or having fans paying for$79 to have their names on the big screen.

28:06Philippe Auclair: I mean, all these kind of really pathetic things, which are like pennies, well, not for fans. and establishing a secondary market for their own tickets, excuse me. But at the same time, this is piffle compared to his embracing of MAGA. It's piffle compared to his duplicity and complicity with the Saudis to give them the 2034 World Cup, taking their money. It's nothing compared to the fact that everything that you look at that FIFA has done is dodgy. and it's dodgier today than it was in the good old days when i started to be on the fifa beat and believe me dodgy it was as we all know now yeah but it is just as dodgy today sometimes in different ways because we live in 2026 so we've moved to you know from the local gangsters to the big tech corporations but they're still gangsters but they're also all style gangsters who are there all over the place in world football, don't worry.

29:14Philippe Auclair: So we've got the worst of both worlds. And Gianni Infantino is presiding over that with, I think, just absolutely no clue as to what he should be doing next and being really surprised that people don't love him. That's, yeah, I mean, that's the thing about him is that... He has no sense of humour, Andrew. This is the thing. Putin, Trump and Infantino, this is a typical thing. And I'm sure Adolf was the same. they're not people who are or were known for their sense of humor the only way that they understand humor is cruelty it's trump impersonating this chap at this political meeting and and doing this kind of appalling spasmodic dance and something which should have i don't even want to think about it because it makes me want to puke but that's the only kind of humor that understands the humor of the humor of the powerful um who think that the humor of the torturer you know but but that is so funny to see people fall from a great height and and and die listen i know what you're saying and i wrote a blog about gianni infantino today and i think his his avarice his greed, his conflation with the idea that if FIFA makes more money, he is doing the best job possible, right?

30:38And I think that obviously money is a huge corrupting factor. I also think that he has this desire for fame, which is another aspect of his personality, which is in line with a lot of what we see today. He's sort of like FIFA is the biggest reality TV show in the world and he's the main man of all this. Right. But at the same time, behind the scenes, he is somebody who is consolidating power. Right. Because you don't build all this up to give it away to somebody else. So he'll go again. He'll go again and get all the votes and he'll the money somehow will will go where it needs to go to ensure that Gianni Infantino remains as as FIFA president.

31:22But with that power, you know, he wants to be seen, let's say, like the other autocratic leaders that you mentioned. But when it comes to the crunch, when it comes to a situation, for example, with the Somalian referee Omar Artan, where he could actually flex his muscles, potentially, he has absolutely chosen not to because he's spineless and he's weak and he's craven. And he gave this answer. I think it was Dan Rowan from the BBC who asked him about this. And he said, it's unfortunate what happened to the referee from Somalia. We need to chill. We need to relax, which is, you know, an absurd thing to say.

32:03I mean, this is what he said in 2017. It's obvious when it comes to FIFA competitions, any team, including the supporters and the officials of that team, and I presume by extension, the FIFA delegates, right? That there is a prerequisite if you host the World Cup that you've got to give access to the FIFA employees. So you're talking about referees and officials and all the people that work in those things. All those people need to have access to the country. Otherwise, there is no World Cup. And what he said to Dan Rohn, I think, was that what he said was, well, the Women's World Cup might be held in Britain in 2035.

32:42What if Britain decided they didn't want somebody to come in? Do you want FIFA to intervene in that regard? And I'm thinking, well, it's just a straw man argument for a start. But by extension, what you're essentially saying is that like if there's a World Cup in an autocratic country and the owner or the autocrat or the leader of that country decides he wants his team to have a better chance. Well, you know what? I don't this Lionel Messi chap. We don't like him. He can't come in. At what point does FIFA decide that it's OK for that to happen? If it's going to happen with a referee, you know, that's just the start of the slippery slope.

33:22Right. So why does this man who craves power and who presents himself as somebody with power to the point where he makes up these pathetic prizes just so he can be the master of ceremonies to give this prize that nobody asked for? how does he then square that with being the obsequious brown nosing little toad that he is the minute something as minor i don't want to say as minor as a referee being denied access because it's actually not minor it's big but that doesn't feel to me like a problem that should be insurmountable for the president of fifa with the mates that he has

34:03Philippe Auclair: the problem is that he's put his little pinky whatever that pinky is in his case in the wrangler very early on he's decided to to camp to set up the tent in the trump camp in a way that I've never seen any other sports official do by even praising what MAGA was doing in the US, which is, you know, take some effort to do that. And he has no way back. So what is he going to do? Do you think that somebody whose career has been defined by opportunism and by being supine to the people above him is suddenly going to change his spots and become this great defender of the principles of FIFA and the statutes of FIFA.

34:59Philippe Auclair: He's been breaching those statutes of FIFA like there's no tomorrow. This is why there is a complaint that the Ethics Commission supported by the Norwegian Football Federation, put up by a friend at Fair Square, about political interference and the lack of political independence of Gianni Infantino. there is no way he can turn back so we can't expect him to do anything uh i think trump could because what we've seen already because you're talking about art and the referee but we could talk about the way that the senegalese and uzbek teams have been treated when they entered the u.s territory which was shameful we could talk about the scottish fans being denied entry we could talk about the iraqi official photographer being denied entry we could talk about an iraqi player being detained for seven hours and interrogated by the local fascist police.

35:49Philippe Auclair: We could carry on like that. And we haven't even started. No, we haven't started. So there's going to be more and probably worse happening over the next couple of next five weeks. And will FIFA do anything? Will FIFA react? No, FIFA will not react because he's put himself in the situation and he is FIFA because nobody at FIFA actually speaks, which is, by the way, something which is, I think, not made enough of. In the bad old days of Sepp Blatter, Sepp Blatter had a counterpower within FIFA, which was the confederations. Now, those confederations were run generally by very corrupt, awful men, but they represented a counterpower, which means that there was some kind of discussion happening, even if this was a discussion between crooks.

36:41Philippe Auclair: Now there's not even this discussion taking place because anybody who could possibly be an opposing voice within FIFA has been got rid of. He's no longer there. So what you have is minions who execute the master's orders or who tell him, like Brian Swanson, his comp's director, that he's wonderful and that anybody who dares to attack Gianni Infantino really should be ashamed of themselves. So this situation, he's really, and also he's a mediocre man. He's a very mediocre, shallow man. He has no hinterland. He has no charm. He's incredibly clever. Nobody discusses that. He's incredibly clever. There are things he knows how to work very well, better than anybody else.

37:31Philippe Auclair: But he's also, I don't think, somebody who has got any form of human intelligence. And because of that, he's caught. is caught in a wrangling machine, which he's built himself. But if he hadn't, you know, he had met Donald Trump, I think, eight times. By the time he finally sat down with Mark Carney or Claudia Sheinbaum, he hadn't even talked to Carney and Sheinbaum. But he spent his whole time, as if the World Cup was happening in America and nowhere else. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about the leaders of Canada and Mexico just to be. That's right. Sorry. Yeah. Yes. And so, you know, you can.

38:16Philippe Auclair: He cannot get out of it. If he got out of it. I mean, if he had this Damascene moment and he suddenly decided, you know what? This is not on. We cannot have this. This referee must be allowed to come back in. Can you imagine? I mean, I would love to see that. Yeah. But it's never going to happen. He hasn't got any moral courage. But what about people who might say, hang on, you know, maybe the other referee should stand in solidarity with their colleague who's been denied entry here. Is that a realistic thing? I mean, I don't think it's particularly unrealistic, but is it a measure of the power of FIFA that they hold the careers of many of these guys in their hands?

39:02And if there's dissent or dissension to this, if they're seen to make FIFA look bad, then they'll be the ones that pay the price. Surely there must be one referee. I mean, I find it staggering that, you know, FIFA is a huge, huge organization. I find it staggering that some of the people who work there and who have stature and who have profile. And I'm thinking of one man in particular because he's quite close to home for us and for anybody listening. have nothing to say about the things about this that are just fundamentally wrong and at odds with what FIFA should be, with what football should be, and what basic humanity should be?

39:49Philippe Auclair: It's a festival of cowardice. And for me, the biggest problems is the fact that the people who have the power to make an impression on Infantino and actually force him to do something he might not like to do are the member associations. There's 211 of them. Now, some of them, unfortunately, a rather large number of them, are run by men, of course, who are deeply corrupt and are crooks, who are benefiting directly from the largesse of FIFA, so they're never going to rock the boat. But there are others, there are plenty of others, especially in more privileged parts of the world, who could actually do something, say something.

40:35Philippe Auclair: The absolute silence of, I'm afraid, the Irish Federation, but especially the FA, Debbie Hewitt, my goodness. to talk about living down to your expectations she's one of them they've said nothing they say nothing they never talk to anybody they never address any point which might have a create a problem with the big guy in zurich and the case of the english maybe it's because of the women's World Cup, you know, in 2035. So we don't want to create problems. I mean, in moral terms, this is beyond indefensible. This is shocking. And when it comes to the referee, I've thought about that because I thought that at least, I think Pierluigi Colina, for example, could have said something, you know and I thought as well perhaps his colleagues and I can understand for a referee a World Cup is as important as for a player it's something you've been waiting for all your life it's for some of them many of them it would be the one and only chance they get to take part in a World Cup and for them it's just as big as for a player who is taking part in a World Cup so it's it's it's tough it's really tough but what I would have imagined it's nothing that prevents those referees who are all based together in Miami should at least draw a statement and say that they deeply regret the fact that their African colleague was denied entry to the tournament and that they, you know, they could at least do that, show a little bit of solidarity with him.

42:16Philippe Auclair: And of course, I wouldn't expect them to decide en bloc, well, we're not going to officiate at the World Cup. I think anyway, it would only be a small number of them who would do that, and I'm not sure that the thought has crossed their minds. Now, what would happen, for example, if the player of a football team was denied entry on some crazy grounds, would the other players stand by that player? I think so, actually, you know. I think so. So it's a tricky one. But there has been no support, not even from the African Football Confederation, of which he was voted the best referee in 2025. You know, there has been absolutely nothing.

43:01Philippe Auclair: And for Gianni Infantino to say, chill and relax, that's absolutely, that's so insulting, so condescending, so nasty as well. And no, there has been absolutely nothing because, and of course this is the way autocrats like to do things, is that if you, you know, so they will carry, The Americans will feel encouraged by the lack of reaction to what's happened with Artan. And, yeah, it's pretty shocking, pretty disgusting, whatever you want. I mean, I don't know if Mr. Artan is somebody I would like to spend my holidays with, but it's got nothing to do with it. It's got to do with the fact that there's a reason that he shouldn't be allowed, whatever his opinions may be or whatever.

43:45Philippe Auclair: He's a bloody referee. Yeah. You know, come on. If we start weeding out people because of their political stances, I mean, if we have to go through every single team that's come to, you know, I mean, we should first of all get rid of Alexi Lalas as an analyst and commentator. That would be the first thing I would do if I were allowed to be the great dictator. Anyway, but no, it's a shocker. it's a shambles and we're talking like this on the 11th of June before even before Shakira has even started to mime to our absolutely appalling official World Cup song yeah yeah yeah I mean we've talked about this and we've talked about Infantino and I think you know just to to sort of make the distinction and make the point that you know there are many many American football fans who are appalled and horrified by what's going on and I think it's absolutely right to point that out because hosting the World Cup as we saw with previous tournaments and even as we saw going back to the parades and the scenes that we saw in North London football does have this incredible ability to bring people together and to unite people and instead the focus is on kind of all the wrong things.

45:06And I understand if you're an American football fan who is disturbed and perturbed by all of those things. And I think we can all make the distinction between your regular American football fan and this administration and the way that administration behaves and the way that FIFA has, in none too subtle ways, cozied up to that administration, right?

45:27Philippe Auclair: No, absolutely. And I think actually some of the teams have been really made welcome at their home base. And if you follow MLS a little bit, you realize that the public you're talking about is certainly not the one who infests the NHL, for example. It's got nothing to do with it. And yeah, you do feel for them because it's a fantastic opportunity for American football fans to welcome the World Cup. And they're also victims of it. That's it. And that's one thing we have to keep in mind all the time. to what extent are you able now that you're now that we've got some of this off our chest in relation to Gianni Infantino and FIFA and some of the wider issues to what extent are you able to think about this as a football tournament you know I've got no skin in the game whatsoever obviously Ireland are not taking part in this World Cup but there are Arsenal players you know across multiple countries obviously there's a big Arsenal contingent And at England, we've got big William Saliba as part of the France team, Kai Havertz for Germany, etc., etc.

46:40So there's a lot of Arsenal interest in this. Is that kind of the thing that might connect you to this tournament more than the countries themselves? Are you expecting a feast of football? because regardless of what happens off the pitch and around these tournaments, by the very nature of a tournament of this size, with so many, I mean, again, it's, you know, Infantino's, I think Ken Early described it as vandalism, the expansion of the tournament to so many teams where so many games just won't matter. And I agree with that. But inevitably, when you've got so many games of football, when you've got so many brilliant players out there, when you've got just the dynamics of a cup tournament, knockout football eventually, when we eventually get there, there are going to be big stories.

47:34And part of why Infantino is doing what he's doing is because he sort of recognizes that when it comes right down to it, chances are, and I'm not saying this is definite, but chances are what happens on the pitch will be the things that people remember more than what happens off the pitch. And I genuinely, genuinely hope that that is the case when it comes to this tournament, because so much of the buildup has been, you know, the off the pitch stuff. Are you in any way confident that that might be the case, that this World Cup will throw up the stories like Scalacci, like Zidane in 2000 or 98 or 2006 or Ray Houghton scoring for Ireland at Giants Stadium against Italy and Paul McGrath putting in one of the greatest defensive performances anybody has ever seen?

48:21you know these stories are the ones that kind of live longer in the memory than than anything else

48:27Philippe Auclair: oh actually indeed Saudi Arabia beating Argentina in 2022 and yes so it might happen but I've first of all my current emotional statement comes to the World Cup is it's so cool that I might have as well have been just taken out of the freezer at the moment so I've got to defrost and slowly. So not out there. Don't put me in warm water, please. One of the reasons for that is that there's basically almost zero jeopardy in the group phase. Yeah. If it were two teams per phase, excuse me, per group that go through and two which go out, I think I would be looking forward to it because there are some groups like the France group where I think, oh my God, France, Senegal, Norway.

49:25Philippe Auclair: Wow, that's not easy. That should be fun. The Scotland group is great fun as well. But there is every chance that all of the big names will be the third, the best placed third teams in their group and will progress. So we'll have, I don't know how many games, this is just ridiculous, to just kick out a few teams, which we knew anyway from the beginning had absolutely no hope in hell to do anything at the World Cup. So I think it's going to be a bit of a... Yeah, it's going to be... We're going to trudge through the tournament to start with. There might be some good games, there might be some great goals, whatever.

50:06Philippe Auclair: There might be some stories. But I think it will only... The tournament will start when the Round of 16, in the basic... Sure. But before that, I should say the round of 32, by the way, because before that, there's nothing happening. Nothing will happen. And so, no, I have, at the moment, I'm not looking forward to anything. I'm interested. There are some teams that I wish to do well. I've got a special liking for the Belgian team. always have it on maybe because my links with Belgium whatever but I'm really interested to see how this young team can do post golden generation I'm very interested to see how the Arsenal players are going to do but there's a part of me that thinks most important thing is that they come back not injured and actually they go home early you know what I don't mind all this sort of the usual conflicting emotions.

51:14Philippe Auclair: And there are some teams that intrigue me. Germany is a team that intrigues me because I'm looking at the players, I'm thinking, my goodness, there's a great team in there, but nobody's talking about them. I'm interested in seeing what they can do. I'm also interested to see how Brazil will find a way to self-destruct. Things like that. And I'm not looking forward to the Orange Menace giving the trophy to the winner at the end of the tournament. So, which might be very well the defining image of this World Cup, by the way. Yeah. Whatever happens before. Maybe that sprinkly salt meat wanker can get in the way.

51:53Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe. Let me just finally bring it back around to Arsenal because we started there and I just wanted to ask you, listen, there's going to be a lot for Mikel Arteta to contend with this summer because most of his players are at the World Cup after a long, grueling season. And like you say, there are going to be some question marks about fitness and how much time off they have and how much rest they have. And the answer, of course, is not enough. However much they have, it will not be enough because of the way the schedule is. But from a footballing perspective, there is work to do in terms of how we build out the squad.

52:32But are you confident now that with this title under our belt, there's a sort of consolidation possible for Arsenal that with the right recruitment, that with the pressure off in that sense, there is an opportunity for Arsenal to expand the squad, to augment the squad in a really, I'm hoping a clever way. Because, listen, I saw the stories yesterday of Manchester City having a£120 million bid for Elliot Anderson turned down by Nottingham Forest. And fair play to Nottingham Forest for turning that down. I think Elliot Anderson is a good player. But if that's where the market is, I'm kind of a bit scared about what we might have to pay.

53:21So is there an idea we might have to do something a little bit more, be a bit cleverer in the market, operate outside Premier League terms? We know how Mikel Arteta likes to buy players from inside the Premier League because he values the experience they have. But financially, your money probably goes further if you have a good eye for talent identification abroad.

53:44Philippe Auclair: I would agree with you. And I mean, one big difference is that, and if we're looking completely coldly at what's happened in the past season, in financial terms, it will have been an absolutely extraordinary season. and according to some of my friends who are football finance analysts and specialists, Arsenal should be the third richest club on the planet when the accounts are made for this particular season, just behind Real and Barcelona, but ahead of Manchester City and Manchester United and Bayern and PSG, which is, I know it sounds insane, but they've made a lot of money. So the money is there, which means that it's possible to think of buying players like Julien Alvarez.

54:37Well, 150 million euros from Real Madrid. Is that Real Madrid acting the bollocks or are they serious or, you know, is that trying to set the market price?

54:47Philippe Auclair: At the moment, Real Madrid is anyway, it's pure bollocks because it's pure bollocks. I mean, we've just had this election where the most extraordinary promises have been made by both candidates, by the way. And so I'll take everything that Mr. Rattanzito Perez says with a very, very big pinch of salt. We'll see. OK, maybe. All right. Maybe. OK. I don't know how he's going to fit all these attacking players unless he's going to sell who? Rodrigo? Vinicius? Mbappé? I mean, I don't know. Maybe José Mourinho knows, though I doubt it. So, no, but I do think that if you are at this level of income and level of revenue, and you are indeed, and I think that will come as a surprise to many people, because you always think of Arsenal being kind of top 10 in the world in terms of financial resources.

55:50Philippe Auclair: But the amount of money made through winning the Premier League title and going to the final of the Champions League, when you combine that with everything else, plus the bonuses from the sponsors and so on, it actually bumps you up way over 700 million, which is a colossal sum of money. So it changes the picture completely. And it means that, okay, but you can compete with those guys. But on the other hand, you can also compete in your own terms and find players who are, I mean, first of all, one of the things I'm really looking forward to is to see our young players coming from the academy, how to see them progress.

56:33Philippe Auclair: Like, obviously, we're going to see more of Dortmund, which we're all looking forward to. We're all wondering if MLS is going to be the starter in midfield. And to be honest, what we saw at the end of the season, we think, what the hell of a player we've got here? The interesting questions. We know there are elements that, you know, we need to do something. We need an extra winger, some reinforcements on the flanks anyway. You look at all that, but you think, yeah, they'll be able to compete with that. And being clever on the transfer market, to be honest, if you look at the choices which have been made, in the recent past, is pretty much hit, hit, hit, hit, hit.

57:18Philippe Auclair: There have been very few players whom you thought, oh, no, they haven't delivered what we were hoping they would deliver. So, obviously, it's evolved in a good way, a long way from the time that Raoul was at the club. It's no longer that. But I would expect both a kind of statement signing and some more under-the-radar kind of signings as well, which are absolutely fine by me, to be honest. But one big thing is that Arteta and the owners are in a position where they can do that and not have to worry about PSR or financial balance or whatever. They think very well. I mean, one of the things as well, Arsenal has got one of the healthiest wages to revenue ratio of any club on the planet, which is something that people perhaps don't make enough of, which means that it gives you quite a lot of leeway when you want to invest.

58:19Philippe Auclair: And which is one of the reasons when I see some decrying and saying, well, you know, with the amount of money they spent on the transfer market, it's certainly normal that they should be English champions or whatever. yeah it's the club's money they've spent it's the money that's been earned that's been spent it's not money that's been borrowed from private equity funds like for example all the clubs which were part of the Eagle Holdings Group have been it's not money that has been invented through incredible I mean financial abracadabra moments like Chelsea it's not that it's actual real money okay so yeah so they've got every right to to spend that money and win what's what's your problem guys if that's what buy and do um and and what's the problem with that i mean i don't think unfortunately we're going to buy michael olissé but there you go i think that's that's a 200 million plus kind of player but But like, for example, I do feel if Aston Villa are reasonable, be reasonable, please, Valens, Morgan Rodgers would be delighted to welcome at the club.

59:34Philippe Auclair: I'm absolutely delighted. But how much is he going to be worth in this particular, you know, in this context, especially if he's got a decent World Cup, which is the other thing to think about, which is a big problem, is that if some of your targets to win at the World Cup, well, the value immediately increases an awful lot. So let's hope that the players we have in mind, their team gets eliminated very quickly. Everybody forgets they were at the tournament. And then we can pounce. Yes, we can get those bargains. We can get those bargains in relative terms. All right. As ever, Philippe, a pleasure to talk to you.

1:00:11Thank you very much indeed. Enjoy the summer. And I hope the World Cup doesn't drive you too mad.

1:00:15Philippe Auclair: It will, but I will do my best to enjoy that summer. You take care, Andrew.

1:00:25philippe you can find him on blue sky he's at philippe eclair.bsky.social at philippe eclair.bsky.social so let's see what this world cup brings on and off the pitch hopefully all the stories and i really do mean it hopefully all the stories are about what happens on the pitch because as we experienced as i mentioned in that conversation with philippe we've seen just how amazing football is at bringing people together at creating stories, creating memories, creating unity, creating love. I do hope that is the case over the next few weeks because like none of us want to see the alternative, do we?

1:01:05No, I don't think we do. Anyway, speaking of the celebrations in North London, we have a little bit of a competition for you today. It is a, I guess what you would call a photo zine, a fan zine maybe put together by Lower Block, lowerblock.com and a photographer and an Arsenal fan called Orlando Gilly. I apologize if I've mispronounced your name, Orlando. This is a 64 page photo zine with 70 color photographs capturing scenes from the Arsenal celebrations over the fortnight after which we became champions. Don't know if you remember that. Do you remember that? We're Premier League champions 2025-26.

1:01:46You will find a link to this product in the show notes. Go over and click on that and just tell me how many people are in the picture on the front cover of this. And all you've got to do is just email competition at arseblog.com. Give me the answer there. How many people are in the picture on the front cover of this photo zine? You tell me that. And we'll pick out a couple of winners and announce them on the show next week. It is available for pre-order right now. Now it costs£8.50 and it would be a fantastic memento among many others doing the rounds over the last couple of weeks. I must try and do something on the blog and put together all the merch and all the pictures and all the photo libraries and all those kinds of things.

1:02:27We'll try and collate them all and things that you can buy, badges and books and T-shirts and all those kinds of things if you're still in the mood, which I'm sure you are. Anyway, thanks to our friends at Lower Block for that. go over and have a look. The link, as I said, is in the show notes. Right, I'm going to leave it there for now as ever. Thank you indeed for being here. Thank you for listening, subscribing, downloading, for just being part of it. We love you. We appreciate you. Hope you have a great weekend, whatever you get up to. Stay cool. Stay well. We'll have an Arsecast Extra for you at some point early next week as well.

1:03:01Not entirely sure when that's going to be, but we'll figure it out. So for now, take it easy, folks, and we will catch you on the next one. And until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:03:38Thank you.

1:04:20The year is 2086. Two decades previously, a hidden moon was found. It is discovered that the population of this moon is a highly technologically advanced group of scorpion creatures who listen to Maroon 5 and exist solely on a diet of human flesh, thus explaining the disappearance of people from all over planet Earth since the dawn of time. It is also the host of the 2086 World Cup. Despite objections from fans and managers and players, FIFA president Gianni Infantino has been given assurances by Steve Scorpion, the main Scorpion, that all will be well. However, on a publicity tour, Lionel Messi Jr.

1:05:07Jr. fell prey to one of the moon's ravenous beasts. There is outcry on earth, but at a hastily arranged press conference, Gianni Infantino plays it down. Of course, it's so sad that he got, you know, a little bit eaten. We all know it's not ideal for a footballer to get chomped in half by Giant Scorpion. But at FIFA, we cannot control everything, you know. Sometimes you have to accept that the Scorpion guy is a bit hungry. And we are quite delicious to them. But Steve Scorpion, the main scorpion, very good scorpion, many people say he's the best scorpion that anybody ever saw. He tells me this probably won't happen again very soon.

1:06:06So I think we can be assured. You have a question? Hello, yes. Roger Cavendish, BBC. You say this might not happen again very soon, but right now I'm being eaten by one of these scorpions. Right now? Yes, he's devouring my leg as we speak. I think probably you need to look at yourself a little here. You know, you maybe shouldn't have such tasty legs. I think, unfortunately, I'm going to die now. That is a bit unfortunate, but it's only a journalist, ladies and gentlemen. Don't worry. Anyway, we must call an end to the press conference because Steve Scorpion, the best Scorpion that ever lived, he just called.

1:06:52He said he wanted to have me over for dinner. Isn't that nice? Uh-oh.