Episode 885 - Statements with Ryan Hunn

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0:55Hello and welcome to a brand new Arse Blog Arsecast. right here on arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. We're into the sort of post-World Cup pre-preseason period of the summer. And that's when everything starts to get a bit, you know, a bit mad because there isn't the distraction of the World Cup. And now all the focus is on transfers and what we do and what we don't do and what we've done and what we haven't done and what we should do and what we definitely shouldn't do. and people start to go a bit, you know, mad, which is normal.

1:32They don't call it silly season for nothing, you know. But of course, the idea that people going mad is normal is a bit mad in itself. How can madness be normal? But I think you know what I mean when I say this. And if you're a regular reader of Arseblog, if you're a regular listener to the Arsecast, you've been around the block before. You've been there, done that, and worn the t-shirt. So I don't think you need me to tell you what to do or how to cope or anything else. But of course, we're all invested. We're all interested. We're all curious. We're all hoping that the club will do good business.

2:11We've missed out on Morgan Rogers, but maybe there's something going on with Bruno Gimeraish. We don't quite know what's happening there. Newcastle being a bit intransigent, I think, in terms of the fee. So will we pursue that or will we look elsewhere? What are we going to do about the William Saliba situation? The club announcing that he's going to have an extended period out of the team to recuperate from a back injury. What are we going to do there? Who is going to be the guy that we go for in place of Morgan Rodgers? How are we going to bolster the attack? We know that Christos Solis is about to be announced as a new signee.

2:47There's one element of the attacking improvement, but what else might happen. All those questions will be answered between now and I think the end of August, whenever it is the transfer window closes. I haven't looked at the exact date yet, but that date I'm sure will become fixed in our minds before too long. Anyway, we don't have the answers to any of those questions. So rather than do questions today, we're going to do statements. And that is a format of the podcast where I ask our Patreon members for some statements, which the guest has to either strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree with.

3:24It makes for some nice talking points and with me today to do that, delighted to welcome back the co-host of the Stadio podcast. It's Ryan Hunt. Good morning. Hello, Andrew. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. How has your summer been?

3:37Ryan Hunn: Quite busy, actually, thanks. Yeah, was doing Stadio stuff for the World Cup. and was also helping the TIFO guys out with some stuff for their World Cup things as well. So quite busy. Almost done. Almost done. Get a little bit of a break soon. But yeah, it's been good. I thought the World Cup was, I think, quite positive in my experience in terms of what I thought it was going to be like. I think it was good to see the negative side of it really discussed and at the front and centre of everyone's minds while also in, you know, of counterbalancing that with some really amazing football stuff so i think the right team won in the end yes i would agree with that it i think it was you know while it was happening and in hindsight and you know i think it was a fascinating world cup for all kinds of reasons good and bad yeah i agree um and i suppose if you're if your job or if your work life revolves around talking about football that's that's no bad thing you know yeah yeah i don't know i mean i have to admit my my abilities to check into other football podcasts kind of just completely fell through the tournament so i haven't managed i've got a big backlog of arsecasts to get through okay but um i don't know if you managed to chat about much of it but i think that moose and i said on stadio that it kind of felt like a weirdly hopeful coming out of it because it felt like a bit of a tipping point in the pushback the general kind of more kind of widespread pushback on on things like fifa and things of and things like infantino and i think yeah weirdly whilst a lot of it was so gross and like some of the grossest stuff we've ever seen at a world cup um kind of a weirdly positive going forward.

5:29Yeah, I think they've crossed the Rubicon a little bit in terms of how far can we push this too far is the answer and I do agree with you. I think one of the best things about the World Cup for me was the sort of natural organic booing of the hydration breaks slash ad breaks, the ad breaks. I really thought that was positive because it wasn't just people sitting sniping on social media or talking about it on blogs and podcasts. It was the actual fans in the ground. And those were fans of, you know, whichever countries were playing. But there would have been a lot of local American fans of football who were there by virtue of, you know, location, who got tickets to the games wherever they were happening.

6:13And I think that was, you know, for me, a really, really positive thing as well. So, yeah, I think it's one that will be talked about. For sure. Yeah. But anyway, it's behind us now. Arsenal. We're here to talk a little, well, not necessarily talk, well, we'll talk about Arsenal, but we'll talk about it through the medium of statements, which, you know, I'm sure you remember, you know the drill, you've got to strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree with these particular statements. And I suppose a place to start this morning is William Saliba. And Arsenal quite unusually released a statement about him yesterday about the back injury that he suffered.

6:53They confirmed he doesn't need surgery, but he is going to be missing for an extended period. A club that usually plays its cards very close to its chest when it comes to injury news. But I guess when he sits down in the middle of a pitch in a World Cup semifinal and people are saying, he said, my back is gone. And, you know, there's no trade secrets happening here. It was really about confirmation of, you know, how long he might be out or what kind of treatment he might require, surgery or otherwise. So no surgery. Hopefully that's the right thing for him. And hopefully the extended period isn't too extended.

7:26But French says this. I feel like they may have a vested interest in this one. French says, how we replace Saliba in the interim is more important than how we supplement our attack to retain the title.

7:45Ryan Hunn: I'm gonna say disagree because I think that we've seen some really really good

7:58Ryan Hunn: defensive problem solving from Mikel Arteta last season I think it wasn't exactly the most stable back four all year and I think that they're so whoever comes in there now or whoever shifts around you know you've got someone like Mosquera who is a very very very very very good centre back for his age and I think one of the real positive things about last season despite you know in a title winning season seeing someone like him come in at that age and be so so assured and kind of just drama free for a young centre primarily a centre back who can also play right back I think So the Premier League learns very fast, you know, and other teams learn very quick and evolve very quick to problem solve against other teams, especially teams who are coming off the back of a title win.

8:54I think that's going to be a major evolution of this team this season.

8:58Ryan Hunn: I think it should be the priority of the evolution because I think that is going to be the thing that the oppositions will have an easier time coping with. I think it's going to be harder for oppositions to figure out how to break down an Arsenal back four, whatever that back four is, and whether that means Mosquera going in. I think Arsenal do need an option, but I don't think that they should be going out to try and get someone of the equipment. I don't think a huge amount of the transfer budget should go on a big, big, big, big defensive side. That's my point. I think it should be focused more on the attacking side.

9:33Yeah, I mean, I do think it is an interesting question because how we replace doesn't necessarily mean that we go into the market, right? We could do it a number of ways. There are some names linked. I'll ask you about those in a moment. But, you know, you've also got, as you say, Christian Mosquera, Ben White, and Jurian Timber. I know they both have question marks over their fitness. They've got difficult injury histories over the last couple of years, but both of them can play centre-half as well, and Jurian Timber has been used there by Mikel Arteta in the past. So, you know, it's possible you could have those three as your options for centre-half and think, can we get a young right-back maybe?

10:11And then you have that succession plan and maybe Ben White moves on next summer and you can do it that way. I am a little concerned though, because I just think for me Saliba is, he is as important to this team as anybody. He's as important as Declan Rice, as important as Gabriel, as important as David Raya. so I do have some concerns that we need to get this right however we go about it

10:42Ryan Hunn: Sorry to cut in but I think that if this was two seasons ago I'd be more panicky I think last season it just felt like we coped very well with the defensive side of it whoever was missing a lot of really really good defenders missed quite a bit of time at various points and I think Saliba is the one that we probably will miss the most out of anyone if you have to if you wanted to if the last person you would want to take out the back four is him but I think that because as long as we've got the other two of the other three are oh sorry the other three are hopefully first choice or even if they're not I think that's the thing now I just feel so confident in that back four no matter what configuration it is that I feel like whatever the solution is will be fine it wouldn't be something that could survive the whole season but I think if it could survive the first three months yeah then we'll be all right and I think that I do think I just have a bit of a gut feeling maybe I'm maybe it'll come up in another statement but I do have a gut feeling that where this team is going to evolve this season is going to be in the front third and hopefully games won't be quite as tight as they were last season and maybe we'll have a little bit more margin to play with so we won't need to be quite as defensively relying on the centre-back pairing.

12:02That's sort of my big hope. I think, you know, regardless of losing Saliba, I think the improvement has to come further forward. Like you say, score more goals, be more creative, make more chances and make games less of a knife edge or play games not on the knife edge as much. A couple of names have been linked as possible solutions to the Saliba absence, John Stones, free transfer, 32 years of age. And Ezri Kansa from Aston Villa, a player who, you know, isn't going to get the juices flowing, it's fair to say. Decent player. I think the fact Villa are looking for a lot of money gives Arsenal pause for thought because essentially when Saliba is back, this player becomes like second choice, third choice, a backup option, right?

12:54So how much can you actually spend on that player? It's quite a difficult one because I think if you look at John Stones and his injury record, I had a look over the last two seasons, he's missed more than 50 games cumulatively for Manchester City because of injury issues. Kansa is younger, more available, can play right back, can play centre half, but uninspiring. But I mean, I don't know what you can reasonably expect from a backup option, which is what he would be. the question then becomes, you know, do you spend that kind of money on a backup player if Villa are going to hold out for a big fee?

13:31It's a tricky one, isn't it?

13:33Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I think it's... My preference would actually be to go for Stones because I think that while his injury record hasn't been amazing, you won't need him for quite as much football over the next however long, hopefully. But I also just think having someone who so clearly has like a squad role i think is quite important as well and um and i think from a football playing like from actual footballing point of view he can recreate saliba's like passing ability for example i think he's a really he's a really good he's obviously an amazing ball playing center back so i get the feeling that if if i was not going to get like a big ish priority signing um i don't i can't imagine them trying to take some I think now the Rodgers I think the Rodgers thing was the one right so the Rodgers uh in terms of a Premier League signing I think Rodgers was the seemed to be the focus I can't imagine them going and paying you know if they're going to get Kimmari as well potentially or whoever I can't imagine them going and paying that same premium for another Premier League centre-back who is not going to be first choice very very soon I imagine they'll probably pick someone up you know maybe from somewhere else in Europe yeah and potentially add stones as well but with the Ben White thing you mentioned before like weirdly I kind of never really thought because of the injury Ben I kind of accepted that Ben White probably wouldn't move this year anyway because I think it can be quite hard to sell someone who's either recovering from an injury that serious so I think he's going to be it's going to be good to have him around and I imagine what will probably end up happening is that no one gets signed and mascara starts at center back and uh i don't know declan rice is absolutely knackered starts at right back and everyone's like no already declan rice at right back first game of the season imagine can you imagine i'm kind of there's part of me that kind of wants to see it just to see just as always like a social experiment to see what the response is yeah yeah yeah um i mean i'd rather not i'd rather not be quite chill i don't i don't think that will happen to be honest but you know there's just sort of that crushing inevitable inevitability of of declan rice ending up there at some point during the season the gta memes oh shit here we go yeah yeah yeah i do think we will sign someone i think it will you know whether it's um concert or stones or or they have a different option you know because i i have to think that arsenal having seen saliba's back injury and they nursed him through the end of the season and you know he i'm sure he had painkillers um to get him into the champions league final and painkillers all the way through the world cup until such point as he couldn't take it anymore arsenal must have had that in the back of their mind that there was the the potential for for him to break down therefore what do we need to do to have something in place, you know, if we need a replacement player.

16:37So whether it is a right back and you use the other guys at centre half or whether you bring in someone like Stones, you know, if you're confident that Saliva is going to be three or four months, it probably does make more sense to bring in Stones than to spend, you know, a big chunk of money on Esri Konza. But that is an issue for Mikel Arteta, Andrea Berta, et cetera, to deal with. Okay, let's move on. There's a couple here. I think they go kind of hand in hand. So maybe do them one after the other um ruben siegman says it is good that arsenal are being relatively disciplined in the market by sticking to their valuations and michael white says 80 million is the new 40 million the market has permanently shifted and clubs and fans need to get used to it So whichever one you want to start with, fire ahead.

17:33Ryan Hunn: Sorry, remind me of how the first one's worded again. Arsenal are... It is good that Arsenal are being relatively disciplined in the market by sticking to their valuations. So I would say strongly agree with that because I think that everyone is so obsessed with transfers and I know that there are places that Arsenal need to, or players that Arsenal need to replace. But this is a side who won the league and got to the Champions League final. So in terms of the amount of surgery that needs to be done on this squad, metaphorically, probably not literally, there was probably quite a lot of actual surgery that needs to be done on the squad.

18:11Ryan Hunn: But it's not actually a huge amount. I know that we obviously could see some clear areas that we were like, oh my God, if only we had X, Y, Z, or if only we could play in this way further forward. but there are obviously signings that need to be made, but it doesn't need an overhaul or anything. So I think that being a little bit disciplined means that you may miss out on someone like Morgan Rodgers, for example. But I think that there was always, I remember having conversations with people, and I think it was quite clear to see how that was going to play out because there was also a sell-on involved, which means that Villa wanted a ton more money than they probably should have got for Rodgers.

18:51Ryan Hunn: and if someone pays it, they pay it. And there is the Jabby Alonso factor there as well. I wouldn't underestimate that. So I think Arsenal were quite sensible to maybe be like, look, we're not going to go over if it's 80 or 85, and I think that's fair. So I'd strongly agree with that. Okay. Can I just sort of play devil's advocate for a minute then? Of course, yeah. One of the things that people have said is that when you are the team that's won the title, And I agree with your point about how major surgery is not required, but, you know, augmentation of key areas, I think, is important. One of the points people make is that there are a limited number of players who can actually improve your team because you're at this level.

19:34Like, you know, it's not like when we finished eighth, it's quite, I'm not going to say easy, but it is easier to identify players who can take you from eighth to fifth to second, whatever, than it is to maintain your position at the top of the table. So the pool of players is limited. Therefore, if the market shifts, and I think people would also accept that the market has shifted or has been skewed by financially irresponsible organizations or clubs like City and Chelsea who don't seem to give a shit how much they spend. and that has a material impact on the market, that your chances of getting those players who can improve you are diminished if you are not willing to bend to what the market dictates a little bit.

20:31Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. But I think what you sometimes see happening with clubs then is they pay maybe$10 million to$15 million per player over the top, and then that impacts their budget later down the line on a marquee player, for example. So I would rather see 90 million go for someone like Bradley Barkler, as opposed to then Arsenal haggling a little bit over Barkler because they've overspent previously in two or three signings before that on players that they probably didn't, probably don't shift the needle enough to then go after someone who really shifts the needle. So I think that's where my, it's almost that, is it like keeping your powder dry?

21:10Ryan Hunn: It seems to come up a lot in transfer talk. I think it's I'm quite glad that for example we've not already seen Arsenal pay 120 million for Morgan Rodgers which would have been super exciting but if there was another thing down the line that Arsenal really needed to pay for like I think Morgan Rodgers is amazing I'm not entirely I think it creates a lot of difficulties in trying to get the best out of him and figure out where you put him in that side and it's just almost a bit like it would have been great in theory I think in reality, it's just probably not the most amazing fit, you know? No, I agree.

21:46I think we've got, you know, if you're talking about a player who can play on the left, but who's better in central areas. Yeah, we've got him. We've got one, yeah.

21:54Ryan Hunn: And I'm perfectly fine with that player because he's amazing and I love him. I also, excuse me, I also think that, for example, the Bruno Gimeraes thing was interesting because it's like there's just a premium being paid for those kind of players who I think that if you have looked at some of... But what I'm saying is I'm more interested in seeing Arsenal pivot ever so slightly to being a little bit more mindful of the players that they might pick up two or three seasons later via a Premier League club because I think that the squad is good enough now to carry one or two of those players a season and integrate them.

22:37Ryan Hunn: Whereas in the past, Arsenal couldn't do that because Arsenal needed to get in the Champions League. So they needed instant impact, instant improvement. And also, Arsenal have got some really good youngsters coming through. I think you're going to see Max Dalman play a lot more minutes this season. And that is like a signing. I think you're going to see Myles play more minutes in midfield this season, which is basically like a signing because he's a really, really good player. Think how late he... Do you remember he came in a few weeks after we had that last chat about him playing in midfield and then he started in the Champions League final in central midfield.

23:16Ryan Hunn: You can't muck around and be rubbish and play centre midfield in the Champions League final. So we've essentially got another really, really good central midfield option this season that we didn't have last season for the whole season. So I'm all right personally with them picking and choosing the moments where they want to overpay and where they want to be a bit like I'm actually yeah we'll hold off here um yeah I think it does depend on what you know what you've got available to you like if you're Arsenal you're looking at Morgan Rodgers and you've got a valuation whether the market has shifted or not and you're looking at your squad and you've got Mikel Moreno and you've got Miles Lewis Kelly and you've got Eber Echeiza and you've got midfield with Declan Rice and Martin Zubimendi and Martin Odegaard, potentially Ethan Winery as well, you're not sort of desperate for Morgan Rodgers.

24:09You might really like Morgan Rodgers and want Morgan Rodgers, but you're not desperate for him. Like not getting him doesn't leave you in a big hole. Whereas, for example, this time last year when we needed a striker, you know, we had to get a striker. We were very, very short or we were short in that area of the pitch. So, yeah.

24:29Ryan Hunn: So the second one, what's the second one? The fourth, 80 million is the new 40 million. Yeah. So you got to get used to it. Yeah. I don't think it is. I think in some instances it is. So what would I say then? Like, just agree? I think it can, but I think it's the new Premier League 40 million. That was the point I was going to make to you. I don't think it's anywhere else is 40 million. No, no, no. But the Premier League is the same. Yeah, I strongly agree with that from a Premier League point of view, But I also think that while it will have a knock-on effect on other European markets and what you, you know, everything is sort of price indexed to some extent, right?

25:09Isn't it? It was like when Neymar went for 200 million, everyone fucking went, what the fuck? And everything kind of went crazy because of that. So it's not a case that the Premier League, even though it is kind of a bubble, things still have an impact elsewhere. but I do think if 40 million is the new 80 or 80 million is the new 40 million in the Premier League you can find the 40 million with smart scouting and you know greater knowledge of other markets so yeah yeah that's it because I think that you've seen how good some players have been

25:45Ryan Hunn: like coming in for like a little bit under the radar and then they come in at a Premier League team they have a year and then everyone in the top four is trying to buy them for however much now i know the counter argument to that is that they're getting minutes because they are able to because they may be coming in at a bournemouth or a brighton but i still think there is a i think good squad management is going to be a big priority this season for arsenal and i think you'll probably my gut feeling is that i think michael arteta will rotate a bit more this season now that the league is he's got that over the line i think it's a big psychological hurdle to overcome so i think if arsenal are going to pick up one or two players who might have gone to brighton or bournemouth first and then gone somewhere else for 100 million i think now's the time to do it because you know i think there's also just a i think having a player who might be a little bit of a not rogue like football-wise, but someone who maybe is wanting to be a bit of a, in German, and like the German word is like a bit of a joker kind of thing, you know, that kind of less, less system based and a bit more like, you know, young with a point to prove.

27:00Ryan Hunn: We saw the impact that Max Downman had when he came and was just completely fearless, doing things that a 25, 26 year old who was bought probably wouldn't do. if you can recreate that in like one or two other areas in the attacking sense I think that's that's well worth it then as opposed to paying like 80 million for someone from a Premier League club. Shatner's Bassoon says speaking of rotating and things we should rotate heavily in the majority of our Champions League group phase games. I would disagree with that because of the use of the term heavily because I think part of the reason that Arsenal had such a good Champions League campaign last season was because the group phase or the league phase like they were top of the league.

27:46Ryan Hunn: And I think that that's a real priority now to get one of those top two spots should be a priority because I think it helps you like having every second leg at home was a big thing for Arsenal last season. And that should be a priority. So I think what we've seen, it's really interesting, I was having this conversation with someone the other day about Ancelotti I think James Horncastle raised a point about Ancelotti a couple of years ago when he was saying that the first league phase came through it was really confusing him because he'd he'd mastered the pattern the pattern of how to play a Champions League group stage and then you shifted it so managers were figuring out do we rotate early do we rotate late what's the pathway through here and I think what we saw is a correction last season where everyone actually kind of went for it in the group phase because they realised securing top spot or getting or qualification as quick as possible is the way to do it.

28:42Ryan Hunn: Whereas the season before, I think you saw a lot of people rotating and then all of a sudden Man City had to play that. Extra game. Two games. And it's just not what you need. So I think you will see an element of rotation anyway based on the opposition because the range of opposition is quite broad now in the Champions League. I don't think you'll see heavy rotation like a Carabao Cup, you know early stages of the Carabao Cup for example I think I would like what I would like to see more next season is just a little bit more rotation in general as opposed to being like okay we have made 11 changes here because I don't think that really works as much as you would want it to from a fluidity point of view so I would rather see you know okay Arsenal have got what should be in theory quite a comfortable home game in the league this uh this weekend it's a saturday 3 p.m kickoff we're going to put three or four changes in but they're going to be on the bench and if things aren't going well we can bring them on and maybe salvage again that's what i want to see yeah or like we were talking before like getting bigger margins in games where you can then take players off earlier because the knock-on effect through the season is huge so that's what i would rather as opposed to big champions league rotation i don't think we'll see that because i think Arsenal have seen the benefit of getting through.

29:59Yeah, I agree with you completely there. Let me have a look at this one. Where was it? I mean, there's a lot about transfers. Yeah. It is the season. It is the season. It is silly season. So there's not a lot going on apart from transfers. There's a few that we might get to, though. Vivek Aralnathan, or Aralnathan. I don't know how to pronounce that. Apologies if I got that one wrong. Says, the Ox will still remain Arsenal's record transfer sale at the end of this window. So we're going at transfers, but a slightly different way. Players going out.

30:45Ryan Hunn: I mean, who is there that they can't sell? I mean, listen, there are players, let's say, that are, I don't want to say surplus to requirements, but you're looking at Fabio Vieira. You're probably looking at Gabriel Jesus.

31:02The one I think that might make me disagree with this one is the Ethan Warneri situation, where I think that is a potential outgoing, which I will say again, and every time this crops up, I don't want to see Arsenal sell Ethan Rennari this summer.

31:26Ryan Hunn: I strongly agree with that. Yeah, even if I don't, even if I find it difficult to see him playing a lot the season ahead, my preference would be get him a good loan to a Premier League club, let him play, let him develop. He's still only 18, 19 years of age. We don't have to make the definitive decision on him right now. But the financial aspect of this is another consideration. Whether people like it or not, that might be something that plays into this. So that's the only one that would make me feel like I could disagree with this one. Because I think if you are selling Ethan Warneri, you want to sell him for considerably more than what we sold Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain for, which was what, 10 years ago?

32:1510 years ago? Was it? Summer of 2015?

32:21Ryan Hunn: 2017-18 wow okay so was that 2017 this summer oh yes because he played the he played early on in that he played right wing back and then they sold him he played against Liverpool yeah but didn't he play in the FA Cup final yeah we got spanked by Liverpool didn't we in the kind of that was the weird the puma years man hmm why are we talking about this we just won the league what are we doing well you know we're just teasing out conversation for the benefit of the listeners to give them something to you and i just looking up at the distance thinking about some of those people yeah i would have to do that anymore andrew it was fine oh well you know at least puma gave us a nice yellow and blue you know they did come on that would be this well there is a there is a lighter yellow and blue one coming back this season right which right or is it more of a goldy i don't the gold kit i don't remember yeah that blue one's nice anyway what we're talking about everything looks good on on righty when he's modeling I know right do you know what the Fabio Vieira one's really interesting because he had an amazing season last season at highest foul and they were and then when they found out how much it would have been to sign him they were like nope which is kind of it shows you the knock-on of the Premier League right it's really difficult to offload players to clubs around Europe unless you take a big you know what is perceived as a big hit on the fee you know for example like i still can't believe jakub kivio went for that much money but it makes sense if you look at what other teams around europe are are actually spending on transfers right you know jakub kivio what did he go for 20 million euros was it something like that yeah which feels very very cheap considering he played very very well in in two legs in a Champions League semi-final not too long ago.

34:14Ryan Hunn: But that's just the reality of it. So I think I'm stalling for time before giving a definitive answer here. I'm going to say, do you know what? I'm going to say disagree. Okay. And I reckon it might be something like, I think someone might pay money for Gabriel Jesus, someone like that because of a name and experience. and do they also have a head injury no but like if you think what's 38 million euros now in pounds that's 32 million pounds i could see someone paying 32 million pounds for cabrio jay-z's dude i fucking want whatever's in your coffee this morning i want some no because no think about it because do you not think no no one just don't think i mean listen i don't think it's impossible but my point is like how much sunderland spent last season coming up right Can you not see someone just being like, yeah, let's go get Gabriel Jesus for 35 million quid?

35:14Maybe. Look, I could see somebody paying something for Gabriel Jesus. I just cannot envisage a world in which anyone pays 30 something million for him. I just can't. Can I just clarify? I wouldn't. I wouldn't, but. Nor would I. I know we live in the stupidest timeline. We've just heard.

35:31Ryan Hunn: So look, so if 80 million is the new 40 million in the Premier League, then 32 million is the new 16 million. Right. I'm just I tell you what if we got 16 million for Gabriel Jesus we got 16 million for Gabriel Jesus I'll have a street party and you're all invited no you know what no you're right you're right what am I talking about it's okay it's okay we all have moments you know no I'm just like snap back into reality it doesn't feel like that much money really now but it is a huge amount of money do you know what I mean no I know but it's a player who you know He's had so many injury issues.

36:09And basically, you go back to that moment in 2022 when he got injured at the World Cup or he was carrying that injury into the World Cup and then broke down there. And it's just been a sort of inexorable sort of decline in his ability and value as an asset, for want of a better phrase. I think the only way we break our transfer record this summer is if we sell Weneri or sell Miles Lewis-Gelley, which, you know, again, I hope we don't do. Yeah, I don't think Miles is going.

36:43Ryan Hunn: I don't think. No. All those kind of weird, weird noises went away very quickly last season. Yeah, so. I think, I just think with the Gabriel Jesus thing, I think there were just enough, like, remember when, like, Daniel Levy, he always wanted to get Jose Mourinho, right? And then by the time he got Jose Mourinho, it was a bit like, you know, you're kind of, you're not really getting the marina that you thought you wanted to get i feel like there are enough sporting directors out there at certain clubs who might be like guys we signed gabriel jesus you know and it's like a statement but i don't know man yeah we had another one uh about ethan uh which uh from devon murthy who says we will pay 70 million to sign ethan when area if he wasn't already an arsenal player which i agree with if he was at chelsea we would definitely do that let me ask you this one or put this one to you Snooner Gunner retaining the Premier League title is harder than winning it for the first time in a long time

37:54I'm going to say disagree

38:00Ryan Hunn: I think because there is so much

38:06Ryan Hunn: there's so much scar tissue that builds up over years and years and years of near misses and failure and off the pitch noise and all of that kind of stuff I think every time that happens again it becomes harder and harder and harder until you finally get it over the line

38:28um i i mean i'm with you i would disagree with that one because i think you know we've won it as you say the near misses become psychologically uh what's the words like a huge burden right every time you don't do it it's like oh not again and then when you can when you come really close to not doing it you don't do it you get pipped at the post that's that's hard so i think the hardest thing is to almost well one to build a team that can do it that's good enough to do it and the other aspect is to convince a group of players who finish second three years in a row that you can still do better you can still take that next step because i i you know whatever their motivations and ambitions at the end of the day they're just humans they're just people who must have doubts you know those exist um you know people who are hugely confident in their own ability and i think we've seen that from arsel the way the players have talked that they still believed i don't think we could have done what we did last season if they did not believe that we could win the title but i think the human condition is such that you still need to bolster that belief along the way.

39:45And now I think winning it next year, I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I think we face big challenges because of player availability, some of the injuries, the fact we haven't done a goddamn thing in this transfer market. That's just my little joke. But I do think we are well-placed, given some of the issues at other clubs and the changes at other clubs and the fact that we are established, I feel like it probably is easier to win it next year than it has been to win it over the last four or five.

40:20Ryan Hunn: I agree. I think it's been so difficult for Arsenal to win the Premier League over the last however long, obviously. And I think that there's been... I can't quite remember a season like it or a side like it that had that much focus on it while weirdly not ever feeling like favorites, fully favorites. And yet when they didn't get it over the line, were so consistently criticized for using that horrible, bottling word. You know what I mean? And I think the players like clocked that. You know, we've talked about this before, so I don't want to rehash it too much. But the players clocked that. and as much as as elite as they are you saw how aware they were of everything when the celebrations came out so that's in there and that's playing a role and i think that there's just a real there's just a real muscle memory at play like when you've kind of been and done it and you've done it in the way that they had last season like it was such a grind like it was such a grind and not a particularly fun season um but yeah like i just think that the the experience that a lot of those players would have taken from that I think is amazing.

41:40Ryan Hunn: Hopefully it just frees them up a little bit more. We always talk about the Rory McIlroy thing. People question whether he's ever going to win another major. He wins Augusta. He wins the Masters of Augusta. He completes the career Grand Slam and then he goes back next year and wins it again. It's the one he couldn't win for a decade or so. Now, different sports definitely, but I do think that there is a real freedom to finally getting that big thing over the line which is why i think we were taught so many people were like i would the league is the one if you had to pick the league or the champions league the league was the one and then yeah so i think uh i'm not saying that arsenal will definitely win the league this season because i think that the premier league is so so difficult but i think that they're in a i'm more confident about arsenal winning the league this season than i would have been you know i was actually quite confident about winning it last season but in terms of a couple of years ago, maybe, now that they've done it.

42:37Okay. Joe's Wretched Urges. We won't ask, Joe. Says. Is it buying Gabriel Jesus?

42:45Ryan Hunn: I think so, yeah. I was looking at the transfer marks thing. It was in Euros, and I just realized that Ox's thing was 35 million pounds. So that three and a half million pounds makes all the difference. It sure does. They strongly disagree. Yeah, Joe, every day, he's like, I just want to go out and buy Gabriel Jesus for 32 million pounds. 50 million is the new 12 million. Yeah, exactly. If this was the old days, he'd have the self-flagellation, asking God to rid him of these wretched urges to sign Jesus. Anyway, his actual statement is, Nani Maduweke will get 10 assists next season. how many did he have the season just gone that is a tremendous question which i will look up as you consider your answer i'm gonna have a look on transfer marked yeah me too so we'll look stats current season um four in all competitions oh that was a real like oh um that was it you were in your head you were going you probably got like eight or something so it's really funny because when it comes up it has his it had eight and I was like hey and then it was like oh all time Premier League four in all comps one in the Premier League so the assists thing is you know it's what was his if we want to get into some nerd nonsense what do we know is his expected assists um that is a great question um do you know what we don't need to go that granular but i will say all comps

44:29eight assists all comps there's not a neutral option is there you have to go either strong

44:35Ryan Hunn: either agree or disagree um i will say

44:46Ryan Hunn: that's tough I think that's the real I think probably seven is the over under right so I think it's right on the line because I think he will probably assist more than he did last season but again I think it all depends on whether Arsenal if they make another attacking signing is that going to come in a central striker position? Probably not. Is Kai Havertz going to be... Kai Havertz will probably be fitter, hopefully, to play this season and play more football. Mm-hmm.

45:24Ryan Hunn: Man, these are tough. All right, I'm going to say... I'm going to be glass half full and say agree. I'm going to agree. Okay. Don't do this to me again. I'm just I'm not judging I'm trying to have a nice time Arsenal aren't playing Andrew I'm just I'm just it's like I'm enjoying the relative quiet before the season starts so I'm hoping I mean think eight assists are Arsenal going to score more goals this season than last season I hope so so he got four assists last season in his first season in a really really difficult grindy horrible season I mean what are our hopes for Nani Maduweke this season in terms of like a play from a player point of view are we expecting him to play more because he played quite a lot of football did are we expecting him to be more confident after being at the World Cup after winning the Premier League title after spending a year at Arsenal I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna strongly disagree with with the tennisists I'm gonna disagree then because I'm like I don't think but he did have an XA expected assists over the course of the season in the Premier League only of 2.8.

46:44And he got one in the Premier League. So he underperformed his XA, but I don't really know.

46:54Ryan Hunn: So other people should have finished those chances that he created. Yeah, that's what that means, right? Is that he made the chances, but other people didn't finish them as well. So if we improve our finishing, you know, he might get to, you know, three. Yeah, it's actually, it's always a bit more than you think. It doesn't sound like a huge amount in all competitions over a season, but it actually is. I think, do you know what though? It's so much depends on like Bakayo Saka. Again, there's so many, I know I'm kind of, it's not that deep. Just, I'm just going to say disagree. I'm overthinking this.

47:28Ryan Hunn: Okay. But I would like to see him. I think he can but I'm again it's the whole like just because he can or it could happen doesn't mean it will happen so I'm going to say disagree but ever so slightly disagree I would probably be bang in the middle on that okay but you're not allowed to do that so you have to disagree so that's fine those are the rules I don't make the rules actually I do make the rules you literally made the rules I'm enforcing the rules seaweed otter we are going to regret getting rid of Leandro Trossard

48:14I want to say disagree

48:20Ryan Hunn: I think it was time I think that's I mean my preference would have probably been maybe to see him stay as the second or third option, but he doesn't want to do that. So I think if you have a player who's not playing the role that they want to play, I think that's a bigger regret because you're not getting the best out of that player. I think it was probably, you know, I mean, it's a new challenge for him in his career. I think he wanted to go. He's obviously going to get a pretty hefty salary, I think, as well, by all accounts.

48:53Ryan Hunn: So, yeah, no, I think they'll be okay. I don't think we will regret it. I think we'll miss him, but I don't think we will regret. Yeah, I think what will happen is, you know, at some point in the season, somebody will say, you know, we'll have a game or two, and someone will go, you know, only we had Trossard. Trossard would have scored that chance, but I'm with you. I think if a player of 31 years of age is being offered a three-year deal with big money, final move of his career, perhaps, you know, at a point in his life where a fresh start is not the worst thing in the world for him on a personal level as well as a footballing level, I think you have to be open to that.

49:31We'll wait and see what Christos Solis can do in that sense. He's a guy who is coming in. Again, I think he's going to be announced today, Thursday. So we'll wait and see. I don't necessarily have a statement about him, but is that the kind of signing that intrigues you a little bit more? You know, the sort of 40 million is not the 80 million, that it is just 40 million because it's come from abroad and because it's come from, in inverted commas, a sort of lower tier league. Does that interest you more as a sort of fan and as a fan of football, not just Arsenal, but a fan of football? I kind of find those signings just a bit more interesting than, oh, Bruno Gimaraes or Morgan Rodgers, not to downplay their ability as players, But I think when you sort of, you know, when it's a known quantity in the way that those guys are, there is that, there's something slightly missing about what a transfer promises, you know.

50:40I mean, I had it loads of times with Arsene Wenger where you're signing a player and you go, who the hell is that? How good could this guy be? And a lot of the time it was not very good, actually. But there was something exciting about those kinds of deals. So I'm just quickly, you know, your thoughts on Solis.

50:58Ryan Hunn: I think it's a really interesting one because I'm really interested in players who maybe, they kind of have quite an interesting journey and then all of a sudden they land at a club that's maybe in, I mean, he's played in Champions League, right? So it's not like a new thing, but maybe comes to the Premier League or goes to a top four club in, you know, a top five league. and you're like oh wow like this guy why why did no one else pick up on this guy um you know if you look at someone like Michael Alise right and I'm not for for one second saying I'm expecting him to be that but you look at the pathway that he had or the pathway that Eberici Eze had like recently two very kind of like players who play together and sometimes it's just putting them in different environments really unlocks another aspect of their play and some players just just continue to improve as the environments around them improve.

51:54Ryan Hunn: I think Christian Mosquera, we mentioned him before, but out of all of the signings that Arsenal made last season, he was the one who probably, if you were going to say where your base expectation was at the beginning of the season compared to what your evaluation of that player at the end of the season was, he would probably have been the player who had the biggest gap in between those two. and you're always hoping that someone like Solis will be that kind of player right I think if you get someone in who's 29 and costs 60 70 80 million quid it's a different kind of pressure straight away and I think if there is an aspect of what Arsenal might try and do this season is just to try and minimize the any pressure that's going into that dressing room this season unless it's someone who has just dealt with it forever unless you're going to go and sign like Mbappe right like I think you've got to be quite careful with the player profile that you put in there as well because of dressing room dynamic um I think he's kind of the perfect it feels like the perfect kind of like in that perfect ballpark um so yeah I'm very intrigued and again it kind of feels like a quite a low risk signing relative to some of the other numbers that have been talked about Yeah, I get what you're saying.

53:14I've watched a few videos and we've done our preview podcast for our Patreon members, which will be out as and when he signs and had a look at what he does and how he does it. I think there's certainly raw ingredients there that we should be excited about. Whether they translate or not, we'll have to wait and see. But the point has been made very well by many people that players have come from the Belgian League and done very well in England, not least Leandro Trossard. So, yeah, we'll wait and see what happens there. A couple to get us out. This one may be a bit heavy, but it came up quite a few times.

53:52uh john rokesmith arson wenger is choosing to ignore gianni infantino's conduct and it's becoming a stain on his legacy okay yeah i agree i think for someone who spoke so

54:12Ryan Hunn: elegantly you know i think it's the word about so much stuff when people couldn't really do that or seem to not do that i remember him talking about something when bowie died do you remember like for example and it was the things that he was pulling out like he gave my generation what he gave my generation after the war like we were coming out of the war and all this stuff i think that just look i think that you know people change as they get older and i think people obviously change sometimes in the environments that they're in and when you're in those kind of boardrooms you're around a lot of people who you know i would go in there and they'd be like who the who the is this woke knob do you mean kind of thing yeah um so the disconnect is all the time you know exactly yeah the disconnect is bigger right but yeah i think it is i think it is like i think it's just really disappointed right because i feel like it's not even the you know it's not it's not like he's doing it at UEFA with Seferin right he's doing it at FIFA with Infantino and it's this is someone who has actively and proactively shifted FIFA into a direction that it's never been before and shifted the World Cup and done, in my opinion, arguably more damage to the sport than any single other individual ever.

55:47Ryan Hunn: And I think it's just really disappointing seeing someone who is so beloved and was so great on so much other stuff be that close to it. But then again, you know, kind of the other side of that is like, how much is that stuff kind of discussed or seen as weird as we see it within those circles, you know? I think that that's a... That's not a massively articulate way of putting that. No, I know what you mean, though. I mean, I would strongly agree with that statement because I think when it boils right down to it, Arsene Wenger, the manager that we all loved and admired, and people didn't love him for as long as others, you know, They fell out of love with him.

56:32And that happens over the course of a relationship like that in a football club for as long as he was at Arsenal. But I think what made him so beloved among Arsenal fans wasn't just the fact that he made brilliant teams and won things. It was that he felt like he represented the club in the right way. And that when it came to issues around the game, and not just issues around the game, but certainly societal issues as well, that when he was asked about those things, he always seemed to be on the right side. Think about the replaying the game against Sheffield United, that kind of thing, that that was something he was willing to do because it protected the integrity of the game.

57:13I feel like Arsene Wenger, the manager who sat there in press conference after press conference and spoke so well about the game of football and the responsibility he felt to the game of football and to fans and to players would have been vehemently opposed to a lot of the stuff that we've seen implemented by Gianni Infantino and FIFA. And to be there alongside him feels like sort of tacit acceptance or complicity in that regard. So that's where it gets sort of disappointing for me. I take your point that people change as they get older. But yeah, I do feel...

57:51Ryan Hunn: I mean, we've seen that. Even for example, I know it's a completely different thing and I don't want to like equate it to being the same thing but you know you look at someone like like I for example wouldn't have ever expected Jurgen Klopp to go and step into that role that he did at Red Bull really yeah I mean but then that's my point where I think that what the only reason I'm saying that is not for just to clarify is just to not for any one second say that like giving Arsene Wenger an excuse for that I think that what I've realized a couple of times like you know just whenever I've got like close to those kind of environments in football you actually just realize how how like it's quite jarring how different it actually is compared to your normal environment it is a different world it's so weird it's like and to the point where like you've like there are points where i've been in though some of those places but i've genuinely felt like like i've been like oh my god like am i actually um fuck am i like really weird for thinking like you know for being like how we like how we are like the stuff that we talk about or the kind of outlook that we have and you realize that sometimes it feels it feels a bit like a vacuum in there where you know it's hard to explain like without kind of like sitting with it for a little bit and then trying to properly explain it but it is I can't like over state like how stark the difference is and so therefore I'm just like if you are around those all the time like I don't think I agree with it but what I'm saying is I can I can see the path that happens I mean I don't I don't I would like to think that more people didn't do that but I think that football especially the very very top level of football just exists in its own world yes and and I think this is just another case of that and it's disappointing for sure and it would be you know it's not impossible to see players speak out or or people or executives to speak out about it and i think that you know i just think i just wish there was a bit more scrutiny on the whole around it and it doesn't have to be you know borger iglesias or hector bellerin levels or jackson irvine levels you know in the men's game for example like i think just some executive level more just just base level criticism i think of things like fifa and stuff like that would be great and We had lots about Mikel Arteta and contracts and things like that, but I don't have any strong information on that at this point.

1:00:18But I just thought this was an interesting one, and we'll use this one to get us out of here.

1:00:25Zubidubidoo says, The Spanish men's national team's style of play through the World Cup is Mikel Arteta's ideal for Arsenal.

1:00:43Ryan Hunn: I'd say disagree. I think there are elements of it that are really, really good. I think Mikel Arteta would like to be a bit... Well, actually, do you know what, though? I think that also they were... Spain won the World Cup with some limitations. Laminia Mar was never fully fit through the tournament, I don't think. Nico Williams wasn't fully fit. It's different to the side that won the Euros because of that. but then again I think also I think a lot more managers would want to play would want to be a little bit more exciting attacking wise but you need the games to open up right when the games did open up for Spain they scored more goals and I think the same will happen with Arsenal I think disagree because I think there are elements to it but I also think Mikel Arteta just likes I think as a club manager you have more games you are allowed to sign people right you are you are able to develop a different dynamic in a football team as well so therefore i think that if michael alteta was an international manager 100 strongly agree i think that there's it's just different at at club level because you can you can you can build out a team with i think more different elements to its identity because you have the scope the resources yeah and the time to do so.

1:02:05Ryan Hunn: So yeah, I think parts of it, yeah, for sure. But with other elements of that just, you know, happen when you were a league winner and a Champions League finalist. Yeah, the conceding just one goal in the tournament, yes, absolutely. That's him all over. I think that is going to be the challenge because I think the perception of the football Mikel Arteta wants is very strongly tied to what we did last season. I don't know, and I've said this before, I think it is a little bit there's some arch pragmatism went on, not just last season, the season before as well, when we had all the injuries and we finished second with all those injuries.

1:02:45And he sort of held that up as like, what we did was incredible because of all the players that we had missing. And I think in hindsight, it never feels incredible to finish second and be out of a title race, but you can sort of see the point. But those two seasons, reasons for various reasons now become very aligned with the football that people think Mikel Arteta wants. My belief, it always has been that he wants to be a bit more expansive and score more goals and be a bit more attacking because it just makes sense. You know that you're not giving yourself fucking heart attacks every week. So we'll wait and see what they do in the transfer market.

1:03:24I'm going to get you out of here, but this podcast going out on Thursday, tonight, Stadio are having a little bit of a gig in the South Bank Centre in London. And tickets still available if people want to come along?

1:03:38Ryan Hunn: Yeah, there's still a few left, yeah, if you want to go and get them last minute. So we're doing a few shows like kind of every six months or so at the South Bank Centre in London. And Moose and I have got Nish Kumar tonight joining us. So, yeah, if you're in London and you want to come along, there's still a few tickets left on the South Bank Centre website. you just search for Stadio Live and yeah Doors I think are at quarter past seven show probably starts about quarter to eight eight o 'clock okay very good if you want to come down we probably need yeah probably need a few more Arsenal fans in there as well so because Moussa is a Manchester United fan Nish is a Manchester United fan oh you're outnumbered already okay so you need the moral support so if you're yeah if you're at a loose end this evening you want to go along for a good evening of football chat that's where you go So South Bank Center website has the tickets.

1:04:28Ryan, pleasure as always. Thank you very much. Great to see you, mate. Take care.

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1:05:19Thank you very much indeed to Ryan. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at ryanhun.bsky.social, at ryanhun.bsky.social and of course co-host of the stadio podcast which you can get in all the usual podcasty places so that is just about that for this week's show just want to say thank you to all of you for being here for downloading for subscribing for listening for sharing and all of the stuff that you do it's midsummer there's not a great deal going on hopefully those wheels start turning pretty soon and who knows what will happen between now and the next arse cast extra when we to James. It'll probably be on Monday.

1:05:53So for now, folks, thanks very much as always. Have yourselves a great weekend and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:06:47We'll see you next time.

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