Episode 886 - Evolution

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1:00Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. We are still in mid-summer, I guess, while heading towards the end of July as we speak. And it does look as if a few bits and bobs are beginning to happen above and beyond the Vinicius Jr. conversation, which has been ongoing all week since that story broke. will he won't he can we can't we nobody knows at this point there's no real new information of of any substance so that one is sort of chugging along in the background the team are in spain right now at a training camp ahead of a friendly against girona on saturday and that's before arsenal travel to ireland to play in dublin next week which is a rare thing but it's always a treat because it means I can go and watch Arsenal and then just walk home if I want.

2:03Maybe I'll get a bus. Maybe I'll get a taxi. Who knows? But it will only take me a few minutes to get back home, which is, you know, not the case, obviously, when I go to London and when I'm lucky enough to go and see Arsenal play in places across Europe. So that's nice. And for the first time since the end of last season, we heard from Mikel Arteta. He spoke to Arsenal.com about feeling refreshed, about coming back ready to go for a brand new season. And crucially, he spoke about transfers. And we're at a point in the summer where people maybe are beginning to get a little bit antsy, a little bit on edge about what we haven't done yet in the transfer market.

2:45We've brought in a third choice goalkeeper and we've brought in Christos Solis, who's there to basically replace Leandro Trossard. But have we done the big things that everybody wants? Have we really improved the attack? Have we really made the squad deeper and better? No, we haven't yet. So it was always going to be really, really interesting to hear exactly what Mikel Arteta said when it came to transfer. So that is something we're going to discuss today. There's other bits and bobs happening which might be adjacent to players that we're interested in. A departure in managerial terms in the Premier League.

3:19Does it have anything to do with us and our pursuit of a certain Brazilian midfielder? So why don't we just get into it all? And with me today to do that is Lewis Ambrose. Good afternoon, Lewis.

3:29Lewis Ambrose: Good afternoon, Andrew. It's nice to be speaking to you again. Yes, yes, it is. I mean, we have spoken a bit over on Patreon for our exciting new player podcast for Christos Solis. And we'll speak again over on Patreon when we make all the signings that we're definitely 100 % clearly, obviously going to make. but haven't quite made yet they're biding their time you know those plates are spinning and then at some point a number of plates are going to come crashing to the ground but some will be remaining i don't know how you i feel like a he spins the plates and then if he drops one or or stops spinning it then that's then that's one that doesn't that's that's a transfer that doesn't happen what what happens with the plate that is a transfer that does happen because it doesn't just keep spinning no it doesn't it gets taken down while it's spinning it gets put on the table and then you put the new transfer on that plate and you you feast you basically you tuck into the new signing that's on the plate that's no longer spinning the discarded crockery is is sort of there you just got to make sure you sweep it up because nobody needs to step on the uh you or the china or whatever it might be ceramic but when you sign a greek there you maybe you do want to smash the plate in celebration but that that's only if you marry the greek guy as well let's let's see how it goes maybe maybe there was a bit of plate smashing at the christos solace uh signing we didn't get to see that on his uh behind the scenes video unfortunately i would like to think that during his initiation song the other players will just stand up and throw their crockery in honor of our new signing yes okay well listen we have heard from michael arteta for the first time since the end of last season he's been away he's had some holidays i saw him biking around somewhere there was a picture on the instagrams whatever it was he was biking around with mrs Arteta having a jolly good time eating the pan contamade and the paella and all that kind of stuff.

5:40So hopefully he's back. He says he's refreshed. He's ready to go, full of motivation. But the thing we were all interested in hearing from Mikel Arteta is what he would have to say about signings and about, you know, who they want to bring in or, you know, just to give us an idea of how he's feeling about everything. And I think when you listen to what he has to say, I'm going to play the clip here. You can't really be in any doubt as to what it is that he either wants or expects, or maybe both of those things. He expects and wants this to happen. So in an interview with arsenal.com, he was asked about transfers.

6:18Apologies for the audio was a little bit weird because it was only available on the app. So I had to like record the audio off my phone into the microphone. So it doesn't sound as good as it, as it should, but this is what he had to say about transfers.

6:31Lewis Ambrose: From ownership to the board, the sports director, myself, we know that we want to take this club to a different level. That's going to require a better squad, better individuals. We have identified as well, obviously, where we have opportunities to grow and to improve and to evolve our game and what is going to be needed to achieve that. And we are on it. We are on it. But he wants a better squad and better individuals. individuals how do you read that in particular because you know you could discuss what exactly he means by that does he mean better people does he mean better characters to me it means the read i have on it anyway is that he wants to sort of to increase the individual quality if that makes sense like the collective as we all know is really good because you know we won the title and we're champions by the way i passed a guy i was just out for a walk before we started recording an Arsenal fan walked by me on the street wearing this season's new home shirt no the away shirt rather but he had a beautiful gold patch on the sleeve and I couldn't help but admire that so the collective as we know is good do you think he's referring to the ability of an individual to impact a game when he talks you know in that in that way about better individuals that's how I I would interpret that.

7:55Lewis Ambrose: Yeah. More talent is, I guess, how I read or heard that and how that translated in my head. What does that mean? To me, it means more talent, more players who win you games more often. And I think that's probably the thing that, I mean, fans of any football club would want. But I think when we've just come from a season where we won the league because our defense was the best in the country or the world well the improvement the place where you can improve is obvious right like that's that's what he said there as well that they um they've identified the opportunities to grow and i think to myself well it's not a center back yeah and it's not by replacing or upgrading on declan rice so it's at the other end of the pitch right it's for years now there's been talk about arsenal needing or wanting a new left winger and possibly a new striker or possibly someone who adds more goals from midfield that's obviously the the gap where more growth or the most amount of growth can happen is the final third is that talent and then chemistry as well and i think what's really interesting about that is it might require some change from michael arteta himself uh you know he mentioned there as well about evolving our our game and whatever happens we obviously have been linked with vinicius jr and you think to yourself well he's not going to play like michael arteta asks his left winger to play and track back like leandro trossard or like Bakayi Sakadat on the right, that diligently.

9:45Lewis Ambrose: He's going to do what Mohamed Salah did a couple of years ago at Liverpool. And those attacks will come down that side and he would stand around on the halfway line waiting for the ball to come his way once somebody else has won it back for him. I imagine, even playing for Mikel Arteta, that's what Vinicius Jr. would mostly do and that Mikel Arteta would have to understand if he wants that player, then that's your trade-off is that this guy will win you more games, but you have to allow him to do that and cover for him in other ways maybe. Obviously, we might not get Vinicius Jr. It's going to be a really complicated and expensive deal to do that.

10:24Lewis Ambrose: If he can't agree a new contract at Real Madrid, maybe there's an opportunity for Arsenal. But I think that's a player and a link that really interests me because not just because of the player, but because that would, to me, mean a stark change in that evolution of the game that Arteta talks about. Arsenal cannot play. There is no way. There is no way Vinicius Jr. would do it. I mean, is there a middle ground to be had there, just to sort of play devil's advocate a bit? Because I know exactly what you're saying and I think everybody listening would understand that there are certain players who are far more focused on what they need to do in the final third than the defensive third, right?

11:04And if you're a Vinicius Jr., if you are one of the big attacking stars in the world, listen, you have work to do. You've got a job to do on the pitch. But to what extent is it incumbent on Mikel Arteta to recognize that if you're going to bring in a player like that, as much as we admire the work rate and the tenacity, and I don't know how many times we've spoken about it or I've written about it, and you go, wow. Look at Leandro Trossard, the way he chased all the way back to make a tackle in the corner, in our own corner flag. Look at Bakayo Saka, the way he tracked back all the way to make.

11:40You're sort of going, that's brilliant and it's admirable. And clearly we've talked about the collective and how important that is. But there has to be some acknowledgement that if you're going to get the very best out of a player like Vinicius Jr., whether he comes or not, but that kind of player. that, I mean, I guess my question is, do you think Mikel Arteta is comfortable enough now to allow a player to do what he hasn't really allowed any other player to do in his time at Arsenal?

12:14Lewis Ambrose: That's the interesting question, right? But when I hear him talk about, and I wouldn't make that exception for any player, for any left winger. It has to be a special player, world-class, you know, I just mentioned Mohamed Salah doing the same kind of thing for Liverpool. I think it has to be a player who can consistently make the difference in games to allow them that freedom to do that. I think Arsenal have Declan Rice, who plays on that left-hand side and can basically be one-and-a-half players defensively when he plays on that left-hand side of the midfield. I think you've got, you know, Hinkapie, who works like one-and-a-half players at left-back as well.

12:52Lewis Ambrose: Maybe that's the kind of chemistry and combination you need to make it work and make it happen. But yeah, I think if Mikel Arteta wants to talk about having better individuals and where the opportunity is to grow and improve and evolve our game, then it's an attack. And you're going to have to give up something that makes this defence so special, which is all 11 players playing that way that you just mentioned, that Leandro Trossard would track back and Bakayi Saka would track back. it's going to necessitate sometimes if you're going to have a player who's going to offer a bit more in the final third or a lot more in the final third, that player may be not having quite the same defensive responsibilities that someone else would have I think that's the if you can find a player of that level that's the obvious trade off and it's the potential evolution in our game.

13:46Lewis Ambrose: I don't know if you've seen the Odyssey yet as everybody's talking about it but very early on in the film there's a no spoilers no spoilers but very early on in the film one character you know there's a kind of sword practice training type lesson going on i won't name many characters but one character says to another you can't win with a perfect defense hesitate and draw the attack and then you know strike arsenal need more goals and yes i I wonder how many Arsenal fans are sat in the cinema this summer, like I was last week. And that quote kind of went, oh, yeah, we don't do that. You can win.

14:24Lewis Ambrose: No, my brain went, no, you can win with a perfect defence. You can. But maybe sometimes you do need to give something up to, you know, we talk about Arsenal not having opportunities on the break, not having space to attack teams. If you invite teams on a little bit more, if you, I think, from that sort of left, we're talking about Vinicius Jr. and you talk about the left winger from that perspective. I think you kind of dare the right back of the opposition. Do you really want to join that attack? Because if you lose the ball, I'm free. I'm one of the best players in the world, and I'm free, and they're going to find me, and I've got a straight path to goal just because your centre midfielder played a poor pass.

15:05Lewis Ambrose: And I think you chip away maybe at the attacking threat of the opposition and numbers they send forward. And if you don't, then they open up spaces for you to attack. So goals are the question. We've just seen a World Cup where from set pieces, goals have been disallowed very, very softly for very little amounts of obstruction or contact on goalkeepers and on defenders. Arsenal are going to have to find more goals. We didn't have enough goals last season. We're going to have to find more goals, possibly make up for some set piece goals as well at some point. Well, you might have to sacrifice something in defence.

15:40Lewis Ambrose: And then there'll be really the power of, which has been I think the real superpower of Mikl Arteta more than anything else over his time in charge of Arsenal is convincing the players to follow him. And it is very much an all for one and one for all situation. And if you let one player play by slightly different rules, that'll be a real test of his powers of persuasion. I think that one guy maybe can get away with a little bit more, but everybody else has to work that little bit harder to allow that. Is there not an argument to be made, though, that in order to keep things fresh, in order to keep things vital, right, your team has won the title, they slugged their way to the Premier League title.

16:21And I think it was probably exhausting for everybody, as much as it was glorious and something to celebrate, I'd say it was also something that took a lot out of them. And now you're faced with the challenge of, right, can you defend your title? Can you retain the title? How do you do that? I remember, and it's an example that we've sort of talked about a bit on the blog and on the podcast before, is that when we lost to Bayern Munich, 1-0 away from home in the Champions League in 2024, I think it was, first year back, the talk was that Arsenal really wanted to find that player who could make a real difference in the final third because clubs like Bayern Munich have those players, you know, and they had players who did it that season, you know, your Real Madrid's, your Barcelona's, your Bayern Munich's, they have that player, they have that guy, they have that just extra bit of quality in the final third, which doesn't always win you things, but gives you a better chance of doing it, you know, And the fact that we're here sort of two years later, and we're really only being linked now with that kind of player, one, I think it speaks to the scarcity of that kind of talent.

17:39But two, it speaks to how you sort of need that player to be available or to become slightly available. And in the case of Vinicius, right, it is the final 12 months of his contract. Contract talks with Real Madrid are at an impasse. They brought in other players. They might not want to lose him for free, but maybe they don't want to give him a new super deal. He can move to the Premier League. All these ducks are getting in a row from an Arsenal perspective. But as well as that, as a way of supercharging your dressing room, in a summer when players have been at the World Cup, they're going to come back in dribs and drabs, that they're going to be fatigued, they're going to be different levels of early season fitness, depending on how far those players went into the tournament.

18:34I don't know so much if it's compromising his ideals or what things have been built on as much as acknowledging, right, we kind of have to change things up in the way that coaching staff change. People always talked about Alex Ferguson. He would change his number two, not every year, but with a frequency, let's say, that Arsene Wenger didn't. And that seemed to work for Ferguson. You know, there was a point where he was going to walk away from Manchester United, came back had another sort of remontada with a league title etc etc so you know that way of of revitalizing your dressing room through a player like Vinicius forcing in many ways a slight change of tack from the manager I mean if Mikel Arteta is thinking that that's kind of what we need to do or what I need to do as a manager to get the best out of this team next season but also attract a player like Vinicius Jr.

19:29You can't bring him in and say, we think you're going to score a load of goals, but as soon as their right back gets the ball, you've got to chase back 50, 60 yards to make a tackle and block off the passing lanes. I don't think you get Vinicius Jr. into your club.

19:43Lewis Ambrose: No, I don't think so either. And I think if we were talking a couple of years ago, maybe we would have said Michel Arteta wouldn't have compromised. And I agree that now something might need to freshen up, something to reanimate or keep the players animated uh and engaged we we had that long i think we said multiple times last season we we weren't in a title race last season we were in a title race for four years that was the the mental exhaustion and i think i think over those four years our football at times got more agricultural if you want to put it that way i think it'd be a bit of a harsh way to put it but maybe more clean sheet focused than it was in that first season uh i think maybe there's a good reason for that and maybe defensive openness cost us in that first season uh and in the three since we've yeah over over time more focus on set pieces more focus on clean sheets and being solid at the back i think it's as fans it was exhausting uh mentally to watch you could tell physically and mentally it was exhausting for the players and i think once Once you've decided to follow a path like that with a goal in mind, once you achieve that goal, I think the focus can slip a bit.

21:05Lewis Ambrose: You know, we fought for four years to win the Premier League and we did. And then do you have the same level of defensive focus, the same level of tension and engagement in the task once you've already completed it last year? or do you, yeah, as you're sort of alluding to, I think need to change the way that things are done a little bit to keep everybody engaged and motivated and interested. I mean, I don't think it's an accident or a coincidence that there was also on a personal level reasons for it, but Jose Mourinho, even at his best, would last three years somewhere. I often thought, yeah, sure, Eden Hazard will play for you for a couple of years, but by year three, Eden Hazard's going to be fed up with having to play this type of football and not having the ball as much as he looks across to, I don't know, David Silva at Manchester City and sees how much he gets the ball and can create and express himself.

22:00Lewis Ambrose: And I'm sure Eden Hazard is looking up there going, oh, I wish I could do that. I wish my manager would let me do that. And we saw it time and time again at Chelsea, at Inter, Real Madrid, at Chelsea again, that players were maybe a little less engaged and the Mourinho third season was often a really poor one, even maybe at Manchester United. I think Arteta, if he's going to demand the exact same football from these players next year and the year after that, that would just run us the league, I think you would run that risk that the players aren't enjoying themselves on the pitch enough to stay fully engaged and stay with that level of determination and discipline.

22:40Lewis Ambrose: in i think you need to release them a little bit loosen those shackles and you know let them go and that might not be all of them it might mean you sign you know a forward and then you say to the left back if it's calif you're you're gonna have to roam a little bit less because the guy in front of you is not going to be as reliable as trossard was or as martinelli has been sure but it sparks a little bit different something a little bit different in the final third maybe and you know it i think is i think it could be a way to yeah keep the keep the squad keep the fans more engaged and on top of things as well i like i think there's there's a risk mcclartett has talked up the the emirates and the fan base and how important we all are creating an atmosphere and i think we have been that over the past few years i think last season there was uh there was a nervousness but it was about getting over the line mcclartett is going to have to animate 60 ,000 people to create atmospheres without the, we have to finally win a league title again, animating those people.

23:46Lewis Ambrose: And that might have to be through better football as well. No, I completely agree. And listen, I think I said this on the Arscast last week or Arscast next door with James, I can't quite remember, but I don't really believe, despite the perception of Mikel Arteta's football that is out there, I don't really believe that that is his ideal way of playing the game. I just refuse to believe that. I think it's been arch pragmatism. The last, not last season, the season just gone, but the one before that, when we had all the injuries and we finished second. And he spoke about how much he'd learned from, you know, how he was able to achieve second place with a squad that didn't have a striker for five, six months or whatever it was.

24:27And, you know, we co-opted Mikel Marino, who of course is the hottest striker in Europe right now but you know we we had to we really had to work hard to get that and then I think last season as well there were injuries and he lent into that in a really really big way but I don't think if you were to ask him maybe even if you were to ask Arsenal fans that the football itself was enjoyable you know football is enjoyable when you win when you score lots of goals you can make any argument you want to me that a 1-0 win classic arsenal what more do you want three points on the board yeah i'll take it but is that as enjoyable as winning 3-0 or 4-0 like think about that fulham game right the fulham game that happened in that period that in the five games you know it's a new premier league said michael arteta and there was a 1-0 win i can't remember who it was because it's all just a blur in my head was it west ham no the fulham game was before west ham And then it was whoever we played, I think we won 1-0 as well.

25:31But then we had that game against Fulham and it was 3-0 at halftime and Jacare scored a couple, I think, and Saka scored one and Saka assisted for Jacare. It was like, this, give me more of this, you know? And I do think that he has recognized that you can't go through another season of grind. You just cannot do it. Like mentally, physically, emotionally, it's not possible to do that. It was a means to a brilliant end last season. So that's why I have to say, I think when the sort of news emerged that we are interested in somebody like Vinicius Jr., however likely you think that is right now, listening to this podcast, and it's a Thursday afternoon, and who knows what news might emerge by the time you've listened to this.

26:18We don't know. but however you likely you think it is for me it's like okay good good because it is tacit acknowledgement that in order to to as you say keep everyone engaged players staff fans it's got to be different it's got to be different next season and and you know we go back to that first title challenging season when nobody expected much from arsenal and we brought in jesus and we brought in Zinchenko and we started inverting the left back and everyone was going, what the fuck is going on? And then we had this beautiful start to the season and we were playing lovely football. William Saliba's curling them in from the edge of the box and it's like, what is going on?

27:01This is fucking great, right? I know it's not sustainable because teams understand how you play and they adjust and adapt. We then have different expectations compared to back then. Of course, it's all different. But I do think that he is telling us that he knows it can't be the same, that you've got to evolve. You have to keep evolving and keep evolving in a positive way to give yourself the best chance of success.

27:29Lewis Ambrose: Yeah, I think you can, by the way, specifically a player like Vinicius, I think you can have one. I think you can have one who doesn't fit into the team like that. I don't think Real Madrid are going to win the Champions League with him and Mbappe. And I think we've seen that over the last couple of years because it's two. I think the great decline of Barcelona in the last couple of years of Messi there was because Messi and Suarez, Suarez used to work like crazy, but then he got old at the same time as Messi. And then you couldn't have both of them because Suarez couldn't run like he used to.

27:59Lewis Ambrose: And Messi was never going to. And that big, that Liverpool comeback at Anfield against that Barcelona team. I remember watching that in that first half with Suarez and Messi both up there and just thinking like they're not offering any resistance to these Liverpool attacks. you're defending with eight outfield players because those two just aren't there they're not present they're not engaged because they knew you know that age they had to save their legs for when they had the ball and if they were defending like crazy they wouldn't have been able to do anything when Barcelona did get possession I don't think you can win the big prizes with two players on the pitch like that I think you can win them with one and I think Vinicius is probably the only player out there that Arsenal have been linked with, that Arsenal could possibly sign this summer, who's worth that.

28:49Lewis Ambrose: I think the other players we've been linked with, if you look at Julian Alvarez, Nico Williams, I think they're excellent players. They're not so good that you can say, yeah, you don't have to track back. You don't have to fit into the way the team plays. I think they'd add something to Arsenal, but I don't think they'd add enough to give them that leeway. I also think if you were talking about what happens next season and if you can do the same thing again, if you even could play like that and it work consistently, mentally, physically, the level of engagement, the exhaustion of that. Arsenal will not, we don't know for how long, Arsenal will not have William Saliba for a while.

29:32Lewis Ambrose: I can promise you one thing Arsenal will let in more goals because they don't have William Saliba than they let in when they did have William Saliba if Arsenal are going to concede more goals in the first, who knows, three, four five, six months of next season without William Saliba, they're going to have to and Ben White could stay fit and Jurian Timber could stay fit and Mascara could play brilliantly you cannot replace Mascara Saliba with Mascara Mascara I think is really, really talented there's a really good future ahead of him did really well last season but he is just obviously not as good as William Saliba so we will let more goals in we will keep fewer clean sheets those goals have to come at the other end of the pitch to win you as many games as you were winning last season and I think I wonder if that comes into the thinking a little bit that without Saliba something's going to have to be done at the other end of the pitch to make up for where we won't be quite as good defensively because one of the best defenders in the world is missing for a little while.

30:34Do you see any kind of connection between Vinicius' interest and Arsenal maybe needing to play a little differently and interest in Bruno Gimeraj? Because I think it's always been presented as, and I understand completely why, the sort of midfield addition that allows you to ease Declan Rice back into action after a long season and a short summer. But I do wonder, again, then, if you are allowing a player of that kind a bit more leeway, you've got to be more solid. As you say, Calafuri, who loves to pop up here, there and everywhere, that leaves your left-hand side very exposed. so you can reign in Califuri, you can reign in your left back but maybe a slightly more structured midfield could be the answer to that and I think obviously today as we're speaking it's emerged that Eddie Howe is leaving Newcastle I'm just looking at the Newcastle reporter who everybody loves, Luke Edwards

31:40Lewis Ambrose: Whose head is firmly screwed onto his shoulders Well, he tweeted, he was tweeting about how he was going on holidays and then said, holiday ruined by the departure of Eddie Howe. Dude, just go on holiday. Leave it behind. It'll still be there when you get back. Whatever's left of it will still be there. Unlike Eddie Howe. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, he's saying Howe believes Bruno Gimerae shall be sold this summer. That's the final straw. it now feels like all that's left for Newcastle to do is agree a fee with the Premier League champions this particular transfer negotiation game feels like it's done if Newcastle refused to sell things could turn ugly maybe you know we don't know yet it'll all come out in the wash perhaps part of the reason why Eddie Howe has decided to go is that he isn't going to stick around while Newcastle sell their captain and the best player they have left essentially so that may well have played a part in in in what's going on there yeah that looks like a big after they obviously struggled last season after selling isak as well that looks like a big rebuild tonali and gordon have already been sold they've like they did last summer with eketike they've missed out on their targets as well they wanted they were going to sign or they had they activate the release clause for victor munoz the winger from osasuna who then chose liverpool they were going to sign manzambi the the swiss midfielder from freiburg who had a great world cup and then he decided to go to aston villa and uh you can imagine that something like bruno gimraise who i think this week returned to training or is due to return to return tomorrow friday i believe i think and you can imagine how if eddie howe was sort of looked for assurances the okay but you're not going to sell him as well right and then not received the concrete assurances that he might have wanted uh then that that would be kind of a final straw situation and eddie how who's i think they had a bad day last year obviously but the over the development of newcastle over the last five years or so since he took over has been really impressive and basically to be told possibly that he's going to have to rebuild the entire team again uh you know has a manager got the energy and motivation to do that from scratch, having already done it.

34:00Lewis Ambrose: I imagine that you can see easily how the Bruno thing would go hand in hand with Eddie Howe's decision. I guess we'll find out over the next few days when he returns to Newcastle training, if Arsenal make any progress there and what happens. We know Mikel Arteta will want players available for as much of pre-season as possible if Arsenal are going to sign players. So, yeah, I think for him, for Bruno Guimaraes, I think I go back to that Arteta there. I think we've talked about that bit where he said he wanted better individuals, but he also said he wants a better squad. And after the sort of efforts of last season and the season before and then the summer, I think Arsenal realistically need to plan to be able to play without missing Declan Rice sorely for a stint of 10 games this season.

34:57Lewis Ambrose: I think that might be at some point necessary. Or that he doesn't for a few months play twice a week at least. And I don't think there are many players out there that allow you to do that. But I do think Bruno Guimaraes could be one of them. and I imagine, you know, not just talent, but also energy, tenacity and experience too. He's not a young player coming in and asked to fill the boots of Declan Rice, but a player who's, as you said, captain, best player at Newcastle is a little bit of a different situation to, you know, signing a younger player or a Christian Norgard, older player and ask them to sort of fill in and do a bit of a job or putting that level of responsibility on the shoulders of Mars Lewis Skelly as well.

35:40Lewis Ambrose: So I think this is, I do think there's an element of Arsenal needing a bit more, I don't know, creativity and off the cuff kind of play. Bruno Guimaraes has really good movement in the box as well. He arrives late, he gets on the end of things. I don't know how many goals in the end, but he scored a fair few goals for Newcastle over the last couple of seasons. I think that is part of it Arsenal need more goals but I think more than anything you've got a player there who could play with or instead of Declan Rice and I think Arsenal are going to need the latter for a number of games next season I know you do too from talking to you from what you wrote over the course of the summer I find it absolutely impossible to imagine Declan Rice starting 50 games again next season And look, Declan Rice physically proves us all wrong over and over again because you think, Jesus, he looks absolutely finished.

36:37Lewis Ambrose: And then three days later, he comes out and runs 12 kilometers and does the same thing all over again. But the more Arsenal ask of him, because he'll never say no, I feel that we run the risk of losing Declan Rice for an extended period at some point because he just will not stop. And he'll just run and run and run until his body collapses. and to protect us from that scenario, you need to be able to play without him. And for that, you need a high quality midfield player who can come in and play instead of him. Well, that's it. I mean, listen, with all due respect to Christian Norgard, and I know they're not like for like, but, you know, he's not the guy who can take the burden off for Declan Rice, a player like Declan Rice, whereas Bruno Gimeraj could.

37:26I mean, I think as well, you know, while we're talking about this and we're talking about changing dynamics and changing, you know, the sort of, I don't know if mood is the right word, but, you know, you're bringing in somebody who is, I would say, I'm trying to put this politely because we've got history with Bruno Gamer-Reich, but certainly more combative on the pitch than most Arsenal players, which isn't to say we're shrinking violets, but there's an edge to him. And some people don't like it. And I understand why and I certainly have had moments when I felt he's gone too far on the pitch and not just in in our games by the way I've seen him leave a foot in here and there in ways that I don't know that's a bit naughty um but I do wonder if maybe that's another aspect of why our interest in him is as uh as I guess as far down the line as it is another thing I would

38:24Lewis Ambrose: add to that is his age because i think you you look at his age he turns 29 in november and you think oh that's a little bit that's a short-term signing that's a guy to give you a good couple of years and then you're not really sure what the couple years after that might look like they might still be at the same level but they might start to drop off we've seen that before i think we talked about the keeping the squad reanimated or animated or reanimating them keeping them engaged eyes on the prize bringing in an established top level premier league midfielder who hasn't ever won anything and not a guy who's 22 who has 10 years to win stuff but as the champions signing a guy who will be desperate to crown his career with a few big trophies sure is i think uh from that psychological mental thing keeping everyone on their toes there are going to be points next season you know go back to the invincibles and i remember hearing Thierry Henry and Patrick Vieira talk about you know getting over the line not the league title they won the league title but getting over the line to end the season unbeaten i think it was Vieira talking about well there was a day in training where we all kind of looked at each other having already won the league and we all sort of thought well what are we here for because we've worked all this time to win the league and now we have won the league and obviously we all know now how big of an achievement it was to go unbeaten and at the time we were all desperate to go unbeaten but i can understand how the players thought well we we've worked this hard to win the league and now we have won the league and the foot and you could see in those games there's two three games after we had clinched the title in in 2004 that the foot did come off the gas you it wasn't hard to tell yeah and well these players you know you could forgive these arsenal players having a similar feeling at moments next season well we we've done it though we have it not consciously but it is a thing deep down you this drive last season came from the fact that they hadn't won the premier league and now they have and maybe you need to inject into the dressing room somebody who is still chasing that feeling for the first time.

40:42Lewis Ambrose: And that would be the case for Bruno Guimaraes. In the case of Vinicius Junior, for example, you can add not just a high-quality player, but a player who then arrives with a lot to prove, having not received the contract possibly, that they wanted at Real Madrid, not received a Ballon d 'Or that they thought they deserved for so long. And then you join the biggest league in the world and you're going to have everybody saying that you failed at Real Madrid and that you were kicked out unceremoniously. And then I think it's different energies and motivations. We talk about the squad sometimes, but each individual has their own personality and motivation and life.

41:23Lewis Ambrose: And I think sort of implanting a 28-year-old midfielder who hasn't really won anything in his career into this squad, might when the months get hard and the legs get heavy and it's cold, might when December comes around and January, they might need a kick from someone who is so driven to finally win something when they've already won it to kick them all up the backside a little bit. Yeah, interesting, interesting. Well, look, we'll see what happens. Mikel Arteta sounds relatively confident. He doesn't tend to give much away, but I really did think it was interesting the way he talked about transfers and listen, he could just be very sure of the plan that they have.

42:05He could be putting a little bit of pressure on Andrea Berta and the owners to deliver what he wants, what he feels this team needs and I think we've kind of outlined why what he wants makes quite a lot of sense even if those deals are complicated and complex and that has been kind of the running story of this summer about the players that we've been linked with, which, you know, I understand sort of vexes people and worries them and frustrates them. But at the same time, I think I've said this before, that, you know, when you get to this level, pretty much every deal that you're going to do, unless you're going to do something like a Christos Solis, who's trying to find a bit of a diamond in the rough, you know, every other player you target is going to be complicated.

42:50But Arsenal do have a game this weekend. They're playing in Spain. They're training in Spain at the moment. Shuri and Timber left the training camp. I think I saw a story that he's gone back now. I'm not 100 % sure. That's a little bit of a worry. And the right side of defense is an area in which we've had discussions about who's going to arrive. But, you know, here we are after a summer, after a World Cup, there's been a slight lull, like a week, 10 days, whatever it is. And then from Saturday, it's well and truly into preseason. I don't know how much we're going to learn from a game against Girona on Saturday, but it will be interesting to see what kind of team he puts out and who over the course of preseason emerges as somebody who might stake a claim via these preseason games to greater involvement, at least in the very early part of the season when we're probably going to need those players to come in.

43:45You know, the likes of Odegaard, not back yet. Ethan Ranieri scored a goal in the game. They played against MK Dons at the weekend. So there is an opportunity there for certain players to put themselves front and centre into the mind of the manager.

43:59Lewis Ambrose: Yeah, you mentioned there the right back. We don't know how fit Ben White's going to be to start the season. Congratulations to you. Five years of Ben White today, by the way. Is it? Oh, happy anniversary, Ben White. Yeah.

44:13Lewis Ambrose: We don't know how fit he's going to be. It doesn't seem like Durian Timber is going to be fit for the start of the season. So that's a big question mark. I think that area of the pitch without Saliba as well, which means the option to play Mascara at right back is probably gone because he'll be playing at centre back. So we'll see. We'll see what happens there. These games, I think, often I feel like pre-season rolls around and I'm not quite ready for it. But we're the champions and I can't wait actually to watch Arsenal again. Just sit down Saturday evening and watch whatever line-up is out there.

44:53Lewis Ambrose: It's always nice when there's a new signing who's already joined and available. So I can't wait to watch Ilan Melier in goal. Nicely done. Yeah, obviously Christos Tolis. It could be really exciting. Tolis, an area you mentioned, Max Daumann, obviously we'll all expect to get some significant minutes over the next few weeks. Manuweke and Saka had long World Cups. So Dalman could be in line to sort of win that place for the very start of the season. The Community Shield is only two weeks away. Bloody hell. I think Havertz and Hincapié are back, I think, but I don't know if they're back early enough, probably not to play this one.

45:31Lewis Ambrose: They're training. I don't know if they're playing this one. Jokere's back as well. I saw that. Right, yeah. So those players who sort of exited that first knockout round of the World Cup, I guess, are all there now. But I don't know if they all arrived early enough to be ready to play this. But yeah, you've got a few players who we'd expect not to be at Arsenal a few weeks from now. Rhys Nelson and Fabio Vieira could get some minutes. And then it's always interesting to see some of the younger players too. I think Keidah O 'Neill scored against MK Dons the other day. We've seen Andrew Harriman and O 'Neill for the first team last season.

46:08Lewis Ambrose: And Ismail Kabia got a few minutes, I think, for the first team last season. So I'm sure those players, Marley Salmon in defence as well, especially where they're light in defence, I'm sure he'll expect to get a few minutes. And it'll be interesting. I think there's always the first couple of games of pre-season, if they go well for a player like one of those, you start looking at it and thinking, oh, do they maybe not go on loan? And you keep them around for the League Cup and see if they can force themselves into some minutes next season. I think a couple of years ago, none of us were talking about Lewis Skelly as a serious option for the first team.

46:43Lewis Ambrose: And likewise, Dalman and Marley Salmon last year. I don't think any of us, Dalman's an exception, but I think Salmon, no one really expected him to necessarily get first team minutes last season, this time a year ago. So yeah, there might be someone who forces their way into Miklarteta's thinking, especially as we're short of a couple of players as the season approaches. Yeah, Gabriel and Gabriel Martinelli are back. I've just seen that reported there in training with the team in Spain. Gabriel Martinelli, congratulations to him. He got married during the summer. So they're back. But obviously, I think probably this weekend is a little bit too soon for them.

47:22So it will be a slightly mix and match team. I was going to ask you something, but I've completely forgotten what it was. It was about a player you mentioned. My mind has gone blank, distracted by the news of Gabriel Martinelli.

47:35Lewis Ambrose: um god what was it distracted by his very white suit that i saw yes inspired by the liverpool fa cup uh was that 1996 when they all wore the the spice boys yeah they all wore those uh they all i i remember what it was um fabio viere you mentioned and there is talk of arsenal holding out for a substantial, relatively substantial sum from Hamburg who like the player, want the player, but are they capable of paying what Arsenal want? I think it's around 17 million euros, something like that. Is that too much for Hamburg? Are Arsenal going to have to compromise here? I think you can count on one hand the number of Bundesliga clubs who have ever paid that much money for a single player uh so it's it's very hard to imagine it's very hard for for me to imagine hamburg who you know last season was their was their first season back in the in the top flight after i think six year absence maybe um and yeah they you know in their time in the the second flight obviously were making a lot less money than they they were previously as a as a Big Bundesliga club.

48:59Lewis Ambrose: I struggle, yeah, as I say, to imagine. I mean, I'm just looking at transfer mark now. The last time they spent more than€6 million on a player, you have to go back to when they would have been in the top flight before. So they've obviously come up last season. Their record arrival is Filip Kostic. And that was in the 16-17 season, followed by they signed Raphael van der Vaart from Tottenham for 13 million euros. The record arrival is 14 million euros. That Philippe Kostic one, by the way, I just had a quick look there. And I knew that was the record. So that was 10 years ago. And that's the last time they spent more than 6 million on an individual player.

49:41Lewis Ambrose: Wow. So the idea that they're going to cough up 18 million euros suddenly. Inflation, inflation. The market's different. Get with the program, Hamburg. Come on. I don't know if Arsenal can do a deal where they get, say, 10 million, and then if Hamburg qualify for Europe and Fabio Vieira scores 10 goals, then they get a significant amount on top. I don't know if negotiations could be smoothed over by the fact that Arsenal basically let them have Albert Sambi-Laconga for free, essentially. 300 ,000. Last summer, yeah, which is, you talk about inflation. no inflation there no i mean that that was a transfer straight from like 1986 not 2000 lukonga and fabio vero were both really good for hamburg last season they both played a lot of football fabio vieira especially was um you know impressed in the bundesliga got a couple of red cards but other than that uh he had a good season goals assists hamburg stayed up pretty comfortably in the end and he was a regular player so i think you'd expect them to definitely be be very key on keeping him.

50:51Lewis Ambrose: He seems to be really keen on returning because obviously after a difficult couple of years, he found a home where he was an important player and got to play regular football. Whether or not we can make it work for the fees that Arsenal are looking for, I would be very, very surprised if Hamburg broke their transfer record to sign him. Well, we'll see. There are players, like you said, Vieira, Rhys Nelson, Gabriel Jesus, another one Tim wrote about him and we'll have to wait and see. I mean, again, he's somebody who ideally you probably want to sell, but you could make a case that in the first few weeks of the season, he might be a useful guy to have around because of his ability to play in the wide positions.

51:38You know, until such time as we get this Vinicius thing done and dusted and Saka's back and Matueke's back, you know, It's a lot to ask of Max Downman, for example, to play whatever about playing a home game against Coventry. And I'm not taking anything for granted there. You've got Villa away. You've got Chelsea at home. There's some difficult fixtures in those first weeks of the season. So we'll see what they do in terms of outgoings.

52:04Lewis Ambrose: Do you have any concerns that if we have half of the Brazilian squad that they will all be playing all their international fixtures on the other side of the planet? I mean, there's always concerns, but, you know, it's not like they're flying Ryanair, you know? That's true. They probably have a bit more leg room. They will be once we find the amount of money that it's going to need to pay Vinicius Junior. Yeah, hopefully one of those Ryanair planes with a window. That would be a nice thing. A window, yeah. Yeah, just one window. It's a window. Yeah, we're cutting back. Do you want a window seat and do you want a window?

52:36Pay extra for the window. So before we go, I did want to talk about the big story of the week, which is separate from Arsenal. And that is what's going on with FIFA, what's going on with Gianni Infantino, basically trying or suggesting that they're going to sell or set up another company, which will sell the commercial rights to the World Cup, Women's World Cup, Club World Cup to private investors. And the response has been, you know, from people who love the game has been one of outrage because this is something that FIFA have foisted upon the world. Apparently, the FIFA council who make all the decisions were not even involved in the development of this idea.

53:27It's going to go to an investment company founded by the brother of Jared Kushner, who is the son-in-law of Donald Trump. So those connections that people already have some concerns about between Infantino and Trump, all that kind of stuff are going on. Then we had the report, which I have here. Yeah, Infantino tells countries to sign up for the new World Cup sell-off in 53 days, and they all get 40 million each. Or if they reject it, they only get 10 million, which is, by any other way of putting it, a fucking shakedown. It seems to me we're at something of a tipping point here with Infantino in terms of what he believes he can do with the game of football.

54:17and that if this isn't stopped, then I don't know where it ends. We could talk about maybe how that stopped, but your thoughts first on this idea that FIFA, a non-profit organization, by the way, whose last World Cup, this World Cup, this summer, is expected to generate$15 billion in revenue. $15 billion. dollars just think about that as a number and you know do the mental exercises there is somehow trying to convince the world that they need to sell off even more ostensibly to reinvest it in the game but i think we all know a fucking grift when we see it

55:01Lewis Ambrose: it will never be enough it will never be enough money uh so you know yeah what isn't for sale what isn't untouchable? And Gianni Infantino's decided, obviously, that football is his to own and to sell and to control. It's his to present trophies, to touch trophies, which we see constantly. That pisses me off, by the way, the World Cup. There was always this unwritten rule that only if you won the World Cup could you touch the World Cup. Now it just gets passed around and celebrities are touching it. And he's in every fucking picture I saw. You know, he just sort of sidles in with the players who want to get their pictures.

55:45You know, they've earned the World Cup and there's this fucking fucking baldy ghoul standing there beside them. I mean, technology is great these days. You can Photoshop that cunt out of it. But, you know, he shouldn't be there in the first place. Yeah, there's no way that this that this isn't being that this money is all just cleanly going through and it's not landing in Infantino's pockets.

56:09Lewis Ambrose: I'm sure, you know, the idea that all this money would be going through, as you say, a nonprofit organization and the Infantino wouldn't be profiting from it seems kind of unlikely to me. Yeah, I don't you don't know where to begin. it it's all for sale it all looks incredibly corrupt and we feel and seem powerless to stop it the only people who can do anything about it tarik panja was talking on on john stewart's podcast about the world cup a few weeks ago and and said you know he's heard from you know fifa council members about that they're not happy with this they don't like it and it's well why don't they say anything why don't they stop it it's like well because they're all learning a little bit from it they all get something out of it so you know they don't stop it because at the end of the day they don't they dislike it that much because yeah they get their slice of the pie i would hope i mean it says something when we're all leaning on uefa to be the good guys the only leverage that you feel like there is that anybody has to put a stop to all of this somehow eventually is that the World Cup will be worth so much less without the European teams the European clubs as well for like the Club World Cup they are the biggest the richest clubs in the world if everybody associated with UEFA refused to take part in World Cups World Cup qualifiers I think if you you would only need UEFA to convince Brazil and or Argentina to join them in a boycott and the rest of the world would follow a world cup without brazil argentina and uefa is no world cup i mean i without uefa is already you know there but you've still got the prestige of brazil and argentina the history of those two nations football for footballistically speaking i think if you convince brazil and or argentina to join you uh then the world cup and fifa collapses uh because there is no power left.

58:12Lewis Ambrose: You can't declare yourself to be world football without the biggest countries, the most successful footballing countries in the world. And all I can imagine is that we need somehow that to happen. God knows what that looks like long-term. You know, then what, UEFA becomes FIFA. And then we're all relying on UEFA to do it in a more ethical way than FIFA have done it. And yeah, so I don't know. but uh the shark has been jumped the game and the organization the people at the top of it have very much eaten themselves uh there is and it's very trumpian there is this these sorts of corruption maybe used to happen but people would try to hide it and now they just do it and then they're accused of doing and they go yeah yeah we're doing it and then everything just continues.

59:06What are you going to do about it? You know, this is the thing. I think the, like the Balogun situation, the Flo Balogun situation crossed the line. We crossed the Rubicon there. And rather than sort of let the dust settle, Infantino came out with this mad, paranoid rant on Instagram about how anybody who was critical of any aspect of the World Cup was sowing hate. and actually you know what it was was people who love the game who recognize that that football uh listen like everything else in this world it has been corrupted but there still has to be a better way like what do you do just say well okay it is what it is now you just do what you want with it i don't think that's right i don't think it's any one man's decision or right to do whatever he wants with the game because ultimately it impacts the game it impacts the game for us as fans as viewers it impacts the game for players you know halftime breaks halftime shows they have a material impact on the sport and the sport is um you know has existed in that form for many years because it is special and because it connects with us and i i know what you're saying about UEFA.

1:00:28It's not to say UEFA are the paragons of virtue or anything like that, but they appear to be the only ones with the power to do anything about this. And you talk about, well, a World Cup without the UEFA clubs, is that self-serving? What about the great stories from this World Cup, like Cape Verde and those things, right? But that's not the fault of UEFA if they take a stand on this it's the fault of gianni infantino and fifa and the people at fifa who don't like this but who won't speak out and who don't speak out and remain deathly silent about what's going on all of the things that have been going on not just this fucking sell-off but all the things that happened in this world cup there wasn't a single voice from anybody at fifa in opposition to any of it.

1:01:17So that's, that's complicity, right? If you're there, you know, so it would be wrong, let's say if Europe and if they did convince Brazil or Argentina to come on board and say, listen, the office is enough. You can't do this. We won't allow this to happen. It won't be the fault of UEFA or European clubs or nations. It will be because he has gone too far and like a kind of mad king, he needs to be stopped. And the only way to do it is by an organization with the power of UEFA to say, fuck it, no, that's not it. And that forces change in some way. And like you say, whatever happens after that, I don't know.

1:01:59But it really feels to me like if he gets away with doing this, then there's no stopping him and no stopping the damage that he is doing to football.

1:02:10Lewis Ambrose: And it's already been going on, right? Yeah. Qatar hosting the World Cup, the 2034 World Cup will be in Saudi Arabia. It goes to whoever gives Gianni Infantino the most. That's where the World Cup is hosted now. Whoever Gianni Infantino thinks it will benefit him to host the World Cup ends up hosting the World Cup. And it will be the same with the Club World Cup too, which has now forced so many teams to basically compete in because the money that they're offering is so high that none of the clubs say no. I think that, yeah, this one individual has decided essentially that football belongs to him and that he can use it, privatise it, to earn as much money as possible for himself.

1:02:56Well, for FIFA. But let's, yeah, listen, you know, we've got to be clear on that, that the money will go to the associations and it will be reinvested, et cetera, et cetera. but you know the we're we're not dumb the big nest gets feathered that's all i will say right

1:03:14Lewis Ambrose: that's obvious surely yeah yeah and and yeah like you say that it's that complicity all of those at fifa who don't stand up to him don't say anything publicly just allow him to get away with deciding whatever he wants to decide for football under the guise of it being for the good of football, even though nobody else, just this one man alone has decided he knows what's good for football and no one else gets a say, seems to get much of a say. The entire African bloc, like the federations in Africa, they all vote the same way on everything. You can't tell me that every single federation within an entire continent agrees on every single issue that FIFA votes on, but they all vote the exact same way on every single issue.

1:04:05Lewis Ambrose: that is weird. That's odd. That doesn't make any sense. Well, it makes sense if you follow it to its logical conclusion. Because they're not voting purely in the interests of their federations. And as we say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, I guess, when it comes to UEFA. I don't know what the world would look like if UEFA boycotted FIFA and sort of, I guess, broke away from FIFA and created their own rival to FIFA. I do think football on a global scale on a global level wouldn't succeed selling rights to a FIFA World Cup wouldn't succeed without the involvement of the European nations so many of the biggest countries and players in the world come from and play for European teams I don't think a World Cup could work or would work without Europe without France and Germany and Italy and Brazil and Spain and England taking part Italy obviously have been boycotting the World Cup for years already I just think Bella Ciao it's the only it's the only path to a world where FIFA don't continue is through UEFA standing up to them so we'll see what happens a friend a friend suggested to me the other day wouldn't it be great if you know when the Nations League does that like they get to like the semi-finals after the Nations League finish that they should just invite Brazil and Argentina to take part in the semi-finals they should make it a quarter-final and invite Brazil and Argentina and maybe invite Ghana and Egypt or Senegal as well and just let them play the quarterfinals and turn it into quarterfinals and turn all of those, that big semifinal, that Nations League that we all watch, turn that into a de facto World Cup knockout stage, which I think would be very, very funny if they could pull off something like that just to piss people at FIFA off as much as possible.

1:05:58Well, I guess we'll see. If you wait for I've got the balls to stand up and oppose this properly the way it should be opposed the next few weeks will be interesting. Okay, we had better leave it there. Lewis, it's ever great to talk to you and we will catch up soon.

1:06:10Lewis Ambrose: Thank you.

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1:06:58Thank you very much indeed to Lewis. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at lgambrose.bsky.social at lgambrose.bsky.social. So we'll await those developments when it comes to transfers, those better individuals, that better squad. But with preseason kicking off in earnest on Saturday as we face Girona, I guess time is ticking a little bit. So let's see how quickly they can move on getting those deals done. So that is just about that for this week's show. All that remains for me to do is to say thank you for being here. Thank you for listening, for downloading, for subscribing. If you like the show, if you'd like to give us a review in your podcast app of choice, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, CastBox, Podhopper, AudioTwat, whatever it is, if you'd like to give us a review, that would be very, very greatly appreciated.

1:07:51You can join myself and James for an ArthCast Extra on Monday. For now, though, folks, take it easy, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:08:15I'm out.

1:08:37Thank you.

1:09:07Good afternoon, FIFA Council. It is I, Jenny Infantino, and today I feel like a dictator. I stand before you with incredible news, a fantastic development for football. What was once boringly known as just the World Cup will from the next tournament be known as the McDonald's, Microsoft Teams, Starbucks, Lockheed Martin, Aramco, Polymarket, Monsanto, Militech, World Cup. this will generate billions and billions of dollars in new revenue for me I mean FIFA of course FIFA and then we will redistribute that money to me many nations all around the world so everybody will benefit and if you don't like this idea, I will kill you.

1:10:11Only joking, I just pay you a bit less than all the others.

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