Episode 888 - So many questions ...

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0:59Arse Blog ArseBlog ArseCast, right here on ArseBlog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. It's been a very hot week in Ireland. Got to 31 degrees in Dublin yesterday, 31 Celsius, which is pretty out of the ordinary. And look, I am partial to warm weather, for sure. You won't ever hear me complaining about how it's too hot. it'll be gone soon enough i am slightly concerned though about how you know i mean the entire earth is burning from the outside in or inside out maybe both one of the consequences of that very very first world problem let me tell you is that my watch my watch strap has irritated a little bit on my wrist so i've had to move my watch from my left wrist to my right wrist and this is like a fundamental shift in everything I've ever known.

1:53I've always worn my watch on my left wrist and putting it on the right. It just feels weird and wrong. Do you ever see any of those videos where they sometimes they they put like socks on a dog and the dog can't walk properly? I'm a bit like that, but with a watch can't even type properly. It's affecting how I type. I don't know exactly what's going on. I can't explain it. But as I said, the hot weather will be gone soon enough. The watch can return to its rightful place. And I guess everything will be right with the world again. That's how it works. Yeah. Well, preseason is more or less done.

2:27Of course, there's the community shield, which is often seen as the season opener. Mikel Arteta actually referred to it as a final. When he was talking after the 1-1 draw with Como last night, he said we had a final to prepare for. And that informed the team selection for that game. I get it. it is a bit of a showpiece game. No two ways about it. And the players and the manager and the club and everybody should want to win it, but it's hard to view it as anything other than our last warmup game for the real deal, for the real stuff that's happening. So we're going to talk a bit about that, that game to come on Sunday.

3:03We'll talk a bit about the game against Como, some of the players who caught the eye. There's a lot of chat this week about Miles Lewis Skelly and his future, which I think is interesting because, you know, people can dismiss stories about transfers as nothing. I don't feel like this is nothing. I feel like there's something happening here. So we'll delve into that in today's show and talk about maybe what else we're going to do in the transfer market, where we stand with some of the deals and all the rest. So why don't we do that and just get on with today's show? And I'm delighted to welcome my guest today.

3:39He's an actor. He's a singer. He is, of course, an Arsenal fan and part of the The Thing About Arsenal podcast crew. It's Luke Kempner. Good morning, Luke. Hello, Andrew. Lovely to be here. Thanks so much for having me on. Long time listener, first time caller. Thank you very much. It's been overdue. We've maybe mentioned this in the past, but you're here at last. And yeah, plenty to get our teeth into. Preseason continuing apace. Well, it's more or less over, I guess. How do you view the Community Shield? Do you view it as the final game of preseason or, as some people put it, like the season opener?

4:14Yeah, it's difficult. I saw Jokoréz getting, I don't know if he was just confused by the question or was genuinely angry, but he has got that sort of look of anger behind his eyes. But when they asked him, you know, is this a friendly? A friendly? And I was like, I don't know. I feel like in other seasons where, you know, we played, I don't know, what, 70-odd games last year, Then we had a World Cup. Then we're only about three weeks off. This doesn't feel like this is like, OK, we're ready to go. I feel like this is very much sort of halfway through preseason, this Community Shield game coming up.

4:47But I'm looking forward to it. It's nice to be in it once again. But I feel like to expect that to be 100 % performance is a bit too much. Yeah, I mean, it's nice to be in it as champions. champions we've been there as FA Cup winners and we've been there as runners up because uh that's how it's worked a couple of years but to be there as as champions you know the the real community shield is about who's champion and not just the FA Cup thing so you know to to reclaim our place there uh you know after ending the season on top is is very nice it's a chance to show off yet again that we are the champions.

5:27I mean, I remember back in the day, you know, when it sort of was Arsenal Man United was the community shield every year. I had some pretty brutal games. Like, it was sort of like, we were absolutely, you know, Arsene Wenger had taken them to Austria for a couple of weeks. And then it was like, right, now we're going to two foot, you know, Roy Keane. But this, I don't know. I worry we might not win it, but I don't want anyone to start pushing the panic button. No. I don't think so. I mean, it'll happen. It is the world we live in. It is the internet and everything else. I think my favorite Community Shield memory, apart from like a, I think Ian Wright scored a brilliant, brilliant goal in a Community Shield or what it was called the Charity Shield back then.

6:10I think he scored an amazing goal. I think it was against Manchester United. But I sort of have a recollection of Francis Jeffers getting sent off for booting Phil Neville. And it's sort of like, listen, you came from Everton. You were supposed to be the fox in the box. Didn't really work out for you. I don't know where you went afterwards. I don't know what's happened to you. I don't know what you're doing now. I haven't closely followed the life of Francis Jeffers. But I think any one of us, even if a transfer to a football club doesn't work out, could look back on a moment where you inflict some pain on Phil Neville as, well, listen, at least I'll be remembered for that.

6:49I remember that game very fondly. I remember playing cricket at the time. Because it's sort of, you know, the Community Shield, Charity Shield is always the height of summer. And that game is, if you haven't seen it, dig out the highlights because it is absolutely brutal. And it's sort of wonderful to see two teams just go, oh, we're going to kill each other. And I remember Jeffers gets, because we were wearing yellow, I seem to remember. And Jeffers gets sent off. I think Ashley Cole's got some pretty nasty tackles in there. Wasn't there a mad one? We used to be a proper country, Andrew. Wasn't there a mad one?

7:24It was a Man United guy. I think he might, was it Jemba Jemba? Eric Jemba Jemba. And I think he went in like studs up on Saul Campbell. You know, listen, it's not that we want to see violence. It's just that that was part of how it was back then. You know, the world on the football pitch might be slightly more serene at times. Although we've got Bruno Gimmarais now. So, you know, maybe we're going back there. Maybe that's Mikel Arteta trying to recapture what was missing. But, you know, you look back on those and you love the kind of combative nature of those games. You know, players looking like literally they want to strangle each other to death.

8:05But afterwards, well, of course, we respect each other as opponents, you know, blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, I'd like to kill him. I wonder, though, you know, if because Gabriel and Haaland, they sort of have a bit of a, you know, a bit of an old school rivalry. so whether that will reignite on Sunday I don't can you imagine that they're going to take it that seriously they're really going to want to beat us surely and of course it's Maresca's first competitive game like he is they are going to be determined and actually from seeing Arteta in his post-match press conferences after all these pre-season games he seems pretty livid we're not winning games so I imagine he's he's going to be all up for it on Sunday.

8:46Well he described it as a final when he was speaking after the game against Como last night. So that tells you the mindset that he's got for it. And I suppose that leads us into the Como game and the kind of team that he picked, you know, from the start last night, it was probably a little less strong than people would have envisaged, you know, start for Marley Salmon, Theo Julien playing at right back, Kepa, of course, the true hero of preseason was in goal again. but you know it was a team I think informed by what's coming up on on Sunday which made it I guess interesting to see you know how he's viewing that game but also you know the challenge he thought Como were gonna present last night that he wanted maybe to challenge some of his players because as Cesc Fabregas said afterwards they could not view this game as just a pre-season game if they went into it thinking it's a pre-season game against Arsul they're gonna get beaten 6-0 so they had to take it really seriously and Mikel Arteta I'm not saying he didn't take it seriously but he had to make decisions based on what he wants to do on Sunday yeah I mean I I was there last night and you know I sort of tend to not really go to pre-season games but I was excited to get back to the Emirates and when I saw the team sheet I was interested to see Marley Salmon playing um you know sort of covering for Saliba especially because we've seen Mosquera quite a lot so I thought that was good to sort of give Muscara a bit of a rest and give Marley someone and he definitely was probably the standout player of the match really partly due to his age but I also just think he just held his own really really well I think there was a lack of intensity in the game and I know that Fabregas said that they needed to treat it very very seriously but they had a lot of young players they didn't start some of their best players some of them came on in the second half it felt it just you have to remember that these games are just training matches and i know it's sort of cliche but back in the day we'd see arsenal beat boron wood 10 nil and not think anything about it where now it's sort of like they sold 55 000 tickets last night yeah you know and it's like there's there's an intensity from the crowd but i don't know if that intensity is quite there on the pitch it's more just sort of reminding players this is how you play football again yeah Yeah, I mean, listen, Gabriel Jesus started.

11:08He put himself in the shop window. Unfortunately, the shop window has got a load of newspaper over it so nobody could see him. Someone smashed in the shop window and left Gabriel Jesus there. They just left him there, yeah. Eber Echeese got half an hour, you know, the first of the England guys to return and get some minutes and Honey Maduweke came on. I did want to talk a little bit about Marley Salmon because I think him and Ethan Warneri, who we'll also talk about in a minute, were the two players that really stood out for me. There's all this talk about Arsenal needing a new defender, and I think that's right.

11:43I think we're light on the right-hand side of defence with the injury issues of Saliba and Jurian Timber as well. I have seen it suggested and people saying, well, listen, when you've got a talent like Marley Salmon, maybe he's the guy. I was really impressed. I would think just 16 is probably too young for a defender. I think you can get away with it with, not get away with it, but with Max, right, who's also 16. He's asked to do things in the other end of the pitch, and sometimes they come off and sometimes they don't. If you're a young defender, I think the risk of a mistake, your inexperience, which is normal, right, when you're 16, it's inevitable that you're going to have moments of inexperience.

12:32And those could be really costly in an important game. If you're being thrust into Premier League action or whatever it might be, I just worry about the idea of a 16-year-old being left slightly scarred by a mistake or two and how that then inevitably changes the conversation around a young player. Because everyone now is going, look at him, he's amazing, and he is, he's super confident, he's really good on the ball, he's good in the tackle. We can all see the potential, but it doesn't take much. You know, if he makes a mistake in a game that costs us a goal and that goal costs us that game, you know, people will flip a bit too easily.

13:10You know, that being the nature of football fans. So I'm curious as to sort of how you feel the Marley Salmon situation should be managed. I mean, he could wait three years and still be only 19. It was like William Saliba was, what, 20 when he broke through to the Arsenal first team? You know, more than in any other position, I think you've got to give young defenders the chance to develop and learn and sort of ease them into action. I just think, you know, maturity for a centre-back, especially like, you know, when you're deputising for Saliba, you know, who is the greatest defender in Europe.

13:46Like, you need more than just he's a very, very strong prospect. We've got a player. It's really exciting and I really, really hope that he sticks around all season and he might get some minutes, you know, in some Champions League games and some Carabao Cup games. But, I mean, to think that we don't need to bring someone in to cover that position because I really worry Saliba is going to be out for a long time. But having said that, he was fantastic last night. And in the second half, when Gabriel went off, he moved over to the left-hand side of the defence. And that was great to see that he could completely, you know, take on that position.

14:21There was a lovely sort of drop of the shoulder where he looked, he just looked like Saliba, the way he sort of went forward and created some good passes. But I just think like he's 16. Like when I was 16, I was, you know, hanging around shopping centres and trying to get into nightclubs. Like this is like, he's 16. And I totally agree that, you know, I don't think Dan will get spoken about much for this game, but actually he was his normal, brilliant self creating chances. is I would be really surprised if he doesn't start that Coventry game. But if Dalman makes a mistake, it might not lead to a goal.

14:57Whereas Salmon makes a mistake because he's 16, it might lead to quite a crucial goal. So, you know, he was absolutely fantastic, Salmon, and I think it's been a great pre-season for him. And I really, really hope that we don't loan him out this season. But he needs a couple more years. No, I agree. I agree. it is something of a leap to ask a 16-year-old salmon to make the breakthrough at such a young age. It's lovely stuff, that. Thank you very much. I know. Pretty obvious. Those headlines. I mean, when he first scored that header, those red tops, will they give him the body of a salmon and just his head?

15:35I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Or the head of a salmon and the body of a young man. I don't... Well, whatever way they do it... It's a question we've all asked ourselves. It'll be really, really weird. There's no two ways about it, you know. Giving him the body of a fish or the head of a fish, it will be strange. But that maybe is the tabloid world in which we live. Yeah, I thought he was excellent. It's a really promising performance. And I think, you know, for him to be around this season, particularly, you know, if we do bring in another senior defender, you know, to work with players like Gabriel, like Timber, like Saliba, like Ben White, like Calafiori, like Incappier.

16:14There's such a lot you can learn from those guys and that sort of caliber of defender over the course of a season. Even if you don't play too much, just sort of dealing with them on the training ground and seeing how they operate. You know, the sort of, I think there's something, I don't want to be stereotypical in any way, but I think the sort of South American aspect of Incappier and Gabriel, the way they defend, there's just, there's something very... Country. Yes, but I like it. Do you know what I mean? I like that commitment. Yeah, you absolutely need it. No, you need that kind of bit of bite in defence.

16:50So we'll see what happens with him. Well, I was going to say, what I thought was interesting was Fabregas, after the game, was sort of talking about when he came into the team, you know, when he was 16. And he was playing with Martin Keown, Vieira, Bergkamp, Henry. You know, we know that team. And they are full of bastards. you know and for Fabregas to be surrounded by that and he said you know like he said that was the best education I could have had um and he goes and I still use it now where we're with my teams and so that's why I really don't want to see Marley Salmon like you know sent out on loan uh to play men's football because I just think like right now you're so you're in a perfect environment to learn um from all these all these big fellas um so yeah so I do hope he sticks around well Now that you mentioned him, I do have a little clip of Cesc Fabregas talking after the game because obviously he came to Arsenal at 16 years of age, you know, was there sort of on the fringes of Halen, but not necessarily a Halen product.

17:51But he was asked by Amy Lawrence about that and what he thinks about the two 16-year-olds, Max Diamond and Marley Salmon, who played last night. It's amazing. It's amazing because that's what it's all about. Helen does an amazing job, there are a lot of talents, but if you don't play these talents, if you don't give trust to these talents, these talents get lost in the process, in the way, and it's a big shame. So, really, I had the chance to say well done to them, but keep going, keep going, keep pushing yourself, because it's a big and long career full of ups and downs, because they need to accept that not everything will be easy, they need to compete, they play for one of the best clubs and teams in the world now, where even Max, with the talent that he's got, you know, it's a challenge.

18:43It's not easy to play at Arsenal because you're challenging, you're playing in your position against some of the best players in the world. So really good, really good. And if they want to give us some players as well, we can take them. That's the balance, though, isn't it? That is the challenge. You know, you have to let them play you have to let them develop you can't let that that talent stagnate but at the same time you've got to be mindful of the fact that you're dealing with kids you know who are 16 years of age they can't vote they can't buy a beer they can't do a lot of stuff until they turn 18 years of age and not that they should be buying beer at 18 when they're a professional footballer and they must look after their body in the best way possible you know unlike us um but but that is you know that is the challenge right it's like the pathway for these young players as much as you might want to give them that the short-term pressure of getting results and winning the premier league and winning the champions league and defending your title and all of those things makes it not just challenging for the players like max downman has got two established england internationals ahead of him as it stands might be different come the end of the season and we'll wait and see what happens.

19:56But nevertheless, he's still got Bakayo Saka in his position right now. He might move inside, Max, and play more centrally. But for Arteta, trying to find that pathway and trying to balance what he's got and the potential that they have with the short-term need to get results is not easy, I don't think. But what I do think, and I think it's actually sort of, you know, so fitting, actually, that Fabregas was there because comparing him and Downman is really interesting. And I remember when Fabregas sort of came on the scene and it got to a point where it's sort of like, well, you can't keep him out of the team.

20:34He's that good. And this is even going back to sort of 2005, 2006. And I always remember like Arsenal playing Juventus and Fabregas sort of announcing himself. And Vieira was playing for Juventus. And I always remember Fabregas running past him and Clive Tilsey going, fancy a run, Patrick. and like it did feel so like you know you couldn't keep him out the team and that's what it feels like with max downman and i've and and fabregas is right you know it's like you've got to give them the chance you can't sort of hold them back forever um but it's different with salmon just because of the positioning uh but with downman it's just every time you watch him you're just like he does stuff and he's not even thinking about it and i hope they they keep that going because the instinct he has got, like we haven't got anybody else in the team that can do that.

21:21Yeah. Like, I don't think he's going to be a right winger, Max Downey. I don't think that's where he's going to play, but I think that's the position where we need him at this moment in time because Saka and Matueka have been away. I mean, you make the point about Fabregas in that game against Juventus. The reason he was in the team, well, not the only reason he was in the team, but Arsene Wenger made a very difficult decision, which was to sell Patrick Vieira, the club captain the colossus in midfield the guy who had been sort of emblematic of the entire wenger era but wenger said and listen we know viera were you know got a itchy feet from time to time particularly when the summer came around and this time it happened but you know he doesn't sell viera unless he's got a talent like fabregas coming through so it will be interesting to see like where we are maybe this time next year when the inevitability maybe of max down and means that that Mikel Arteta has to make a decision about a senior player.

22:18Yeah. And I also think this sort of impacts even this season, and I'm sure we'll move on to it, but, you know, with, with Miles and Ethan, because, you know, they're such valuable assets and it's like, I hate this world we live in where we have to sell our homegrown players to make maximum profit. That's exactly why I got into football to hear about that kind of thing. But, you know, when you look at how good Dalman is, it's like, does that impact someone like Ethan? Because you go, well, look, but Talmud's going ready now. I actually thought Ethan Nuaneri was brilliant last night. Yeah, me too.

22:49But, you know, you can't keep them all. It's not Pokemon. And that's Catchemol, isn't it? But I mean, I feel like that can apply. Yeah. Don't people trade Pokemons? I'm not big on the Pokemon world. Oh, yeah, they do. Although, if Arsenal were Pokemon, we'd be very bad at trading. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just have all one kind of Pokemon. I don't know about that. Yeah. I don't know. I'm completely out of my mind. His energy's lost it. You've absolutely lost me here. I'm an idiot. I don't know anything about this role. All the Pokemon fan listeners are going, this guy. Yeah. I don't know what I could get out of it.

23:21A Charizard. Well, Pikachu's one. We've got a Pikachu that we would sell for a quid. That's the sort of analogy. Okay. Moving swiftly on. You mentioned Miles. He scored the goal last night. It was not great from the Como goalkeeper, I have to say. He just sort of booted the ball at Miles, who headed it to Martinelli, who I think looked a bit offside, but the replays were not conclusive in any way, and it doesn't really matter. He swept the ball home and celebrated with a love-heart gesture. It's been quite the week around Myles Lewis-Scully, hasn't it? Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a good finish.

24:03I thought Myles played well. He started this game as a sort of six, and that's not really what I see on Myles' game. Like when he was best was when he was playing alongside Declan Rice. You know, and I can imagine that's the same, you know, if he was to play alongside Bruno. But when he scored, you know, it was interesting. Interesting that he started. You know, after all the speculation, I was quite surprised to see him start. And I thought that was quite a signal of intent from Arteta. And it was a really nice finish. You know, it was central. It's quite, you know, he had to really, you know, slide into the corner, which I thought he did very well.

24:36His celebration, he looked almost in tears. he did a heart shape with his hands which i'm doing now and then he tapped his badge and he sort of looked around at the stadium i don't know like what what did you read from that um

24:53what did i i didn't necessarily read a lot into the celebration itself beyond the fact that he's a hayland boy he's grown up at arsenal he has made it clear this week that he wants to stay at Arsenal. I think where I found more interest in what Mikel Arteta said or didn't say afterwards, that's where I kind of am a bit like, because listen, the stories have come out, right? And people don't like the story that Miles might leave. And I get that completely. People don't like the idea that Miles might have been offered to Chelsea and or Manchester United. And I think it seems clear to me that that has happened because it's been reported from various sources.

25:48It's been reported, let's say, from the Chelsea side in The Athletic. James did a bit with one of his colleagues in The Athletic. I think he's a Chelsea writer. and they confirmed that they've been offered Miles Lewis Kelly and Manchester United have said that they've been offered Miles Lewis Kelly. We don't know who's doing the offering. From what we can glean from everything that's happening, it seems to me a bit more likely that the offering is coming from our side, which is a worry, right? Again, we're sort of in the dark and this is what happens with transfer stories like this is you get snippets of information.

26:28It's easy to sort of dismiss one bit of information. Well, that's bullshit, or you're making stuff up, or whatever it might be. But over time, you start getting little pieces of the puzzle which give you a clearer picture of what's going on. Like, Arteta was asked afterwards on the speculation. He said, he's a very emotional player. You see with his gestures on the pitch, I'm not going to talk about speculation. If there is speculation about our players, it's a good sign that means our players attract attention on our and are doing a good job I do think there's a danger in reading too much into what's not said but sometimes what's not said is the most interesting and telling part of things like nothing in there from Mikel Arteta could easily have said Miles grew up at Arsenal we want Miles to stay he's an important player he signed a new deal last summer.

27:24He's not going anywhere. And maybe he's just not giving anybody anything. But I just thought after sort of all the stuff that's gone on this week, it was a chance to sort of be unequivocal. And it wasn't there from him. So it's not so much, I don't worry about Miles or his desire to stay at Arsenal. I don't worry that he doesn't love Arsenal. He can do the heart gesture and and we all recognize that you know he's got this connection with the fans because of his heyland um upbringing if that's the right way of putting it but i just with everything that's going on i i i wasn't reassured by what michael arteta said no and i and i think having watched michael arteta for nearly seven years now i feel like you can start to get a bit of a read of how he answers questions and i i i didn't like the way he answered that and not because i'm sort of criticizing him but just i really want miles lewis skelly to stay you know that his breakout season you know not last season the season before that goal against man city you know we were so excited and like you know all those videos of his mum crying and like you know like this is this is the story you want the story you don't want is go well great we can get 50 million for him and And that'll help us buy someone else.

28:41That's not what we want as fans. And we all love, you know, he's one of our own. You know, we love that. And I just didn't think this was going to be the story of the summer was selling Mars Lewis Skelly. I agree with you. I think he's desperate to stay. And I think maybe that's why he almost looked emotional, because maybe it's out of his hands a bit. But I didn't like the way Arteta answered it. Now, can I sort of just play devil's advocate here for the purposes of conversation? Like if you're Miles Lewis Skelly and you break through at left back and everyone is talking about you as the breakthrough star of the season, which I think was absolutely right for Arsenal.

29:21He was brilliant. And then Arsenal. An England call up from him. Exactly. He became an England international. And Arsenal's reaction to that breakthrough is to sign Piero and Capier. So his place in the left back pecking order was diminished. finished. He spent most of last season on the bench. He started five Premier League games. Four of those came in the last part of the season. He had one start in the Premier League up until April. He lost his place in the England team. He lost his chance to go to the World Cup. And listen, that's not to say it's entirely on Mikel Arteta or Arsenal. The dynamics within a football dressing room, professional football dressing room are many and varied, right?

30:08Maybe it's about how Myles reacts. Maybe it's about how he knuckles down, all that kind of stuff, right? But towards the end of the season, he got those starts in midfield, played brilliantly against Fulham. Mikel Arteta kept him in the team in midfield in a Champions League semifinal and started him ahead of a much more experienced player, a summer signing last year, Martin Zubimendi, in the Champions League final. then we go and buy Bruno Gimaraes who is somebody who whether you think he plays in the same position as Miles or not whether you think well Bruno Gimaraes is a replacement for Christian Norgard whatever way you want to frame that that signing he is an impediment to minutes for Miles so you know would there be on his part some concern that I've done this and then they do that and then I've broken through again and then they've done this like would you see that as right okay they're really challenging me here I'm gonna show them what's what or do you say despite my best efforts they keep telling me something by the way they're operating in the transfer market yeah they're sort of banging your head against the brick wall really um you know and I has form in this in that you know you can fall out of favor with him and then it is very hard to get back in favor with him and I know what you mean it's like you know when he had that season at left back it was like well this is this is the guy um you know and we don't need to spend money because we've got the guy um and to see the fall from grace last season was a worry but then you know because he had that sort of last two months where he was really great I just never expected it to go back to selling him and maybe he's he's done with it i just don't want to see him in a chelsea shirt or a manny knight shirt but is this an emil smith rowe thing you know when we sold emil smith rowe i was sort of devastated because he was just one of those breakthrough we had the song for him it was everything was he was our croydon de bruyne or all this stuff but you know since leaving for fulham it's not like we've gone oh we've really missed that guy you know it we love him and and we're pleased for him but maybe the same thing will happen with miles like i i don't know i'm not sad i just don't know no i know what you mean i do think it's i know i agree i do think it's easier to parse a departure to fulham than chelsea or manchester united because that in itself tells you something maybe about the caliber of the player like if those clubs are interested in this guy not a fulham or sort of with all due respect to them a sort of upper mid-table team then maybe it's telling you something about the way that the player is viewed, you know.

32:56I really don't think, as much as I'd like to say, I think this is all bullshit, I don't think it is. I think there's something going on here, clearly. We don't know the half of it at this point. The machinations of transfers and behind-the-scenes stuff and intermediaries, you know, which is the way, by the way, that we operated in order to sell or assign Bruno Gimmarais from Newcastle. You know, there's so much. Owner to owner. Yeah, owner to owner. I know what you mean. But, you know, there's a lot happens which gives, let me be like my most cynical self here just for a moment, that it gives everyone plausible deniability.

33:40You know? You know what I mean? It's like I'm not accusing anybody of anything. but if you go this intermediary route, Arsenal can say, well, no, we haven't been offering him out. It's not us, but maybe it's somebody at the behest of Andrea Berta. And if Miles has itchy feet, if it's intermediaries, you can say, well, no, I want to stay, you know, and you know what I mean? There's a lot goes on in these transfers and I'm not saying that's the case, but I just can't, having been around the block a few times like yourself, I can't dismiss this as nothing because, you know, talking to people and, you know, when somebody like James, for example, is reporting stuff in the Athletic, there are few better connected than him when it comes to transfer stuff.

34:28You know, if there is smoke, there's also a bit of fire somewhere. I just don't understand. And not sorry to quote, you know, Balotelli, but why always me? Why always us? With other clubs, when Man City sell Cole Palmer or Morgan Rodgers or Sancho going back a little bit further, it's always like you don't really hear about it. It's like now it's Arsenal. It's like, oh, we've offered him and now it's all out in the open. And obviously we get snippets. We don't know what's actually happening. But it just feels like every time we do sell a player, it just always seems so messy and so unprofessional almost.

35:09and I just like it looks a bit desperate of you going do you want to buy him buy this player it's 70 million but you want him like it's like what like let them come to us a little bit play hard to get yeah I mean I guess the thing is that we're trying to sell players that nobody wants and if we do have any need to sell and I'm not sure it is the case financially but if we do if you can't sell the guys you want to get rid of then not that your hand is forced but maybe you have to explore other options you know what what's really occurring to me about this or it was something that i was thinking about is that throughout the summer there's been so much talk about ethan and maybe ethan is the the one that you deem in inverted commas expendable and i've said it time and time again, I love the talent of this player and I would not let him go permanently this summer.

36:04I think a lone move would be a good idea and then you've got a better idea of where you are in 12 months' time. And I think to some extent, people had made a measure of peace with the idea of Wuneri going, even if they didn't like it. But what happens, big if, big if, What happens if there's more to this Miles thing? What happens with Ethan? Like, I don't know how Arsenal could stand over a summer where they've sold two gems from Hale End. It would be a really, really difficult sell for the fan base, wouldn't it? Because, you know, for very obvious and normal reasons, we feel more connected to these players because of the way they've come through.

36:54You know, so many kids go through Haaland, only a tiny percentage make it through to the first team. And they do so, in our knowledge, they know what Arsenal means. They know what it means to wear this shirt. They know what the history is. They know what the tradition is. There's something just a bit special about a homegrown player. Like, I don't, I can't see a world in which if they sell Ethan, they can also sell Miles. Or if they sell miles, they can justify a sale of Ethan without Andrea Berta and the people making those decisions becoming persona non grata. I mean, I think if I'm just analysing Arteta's press conference, he spoke a lot more fondly about Nguyeneri.

37:40And sort of, I really would love him to get, as you say, a proper loan spell. You know, he went to Marseille last year, then they got rid of Deserby, you know, and then he's not really playing. I mean, the whole thing's a mess. He's not had that proper chance to have a full season. I'd love to see it happen in the Prem, you know, like maybe, you know, go to a Fulham, a Bournemouth, you know, and have a full season of Brighton. And we can really, really take a proper look at him. It's different with Myles because Myles has been around, you know, the first team a lot. But the way Arteta spoke about Myles, he spoke about Nguaneri, makes me feel like Myles Lewis-Gelly, if we can get the fee for him, they will sell him.

38:19and I hate that. I find it hard to let go of any players at Arsenal. There's a few that we definitely want to get rid of, but it is Myles Lewis-Gellion when he's starting that game, if then they're going to sell him up. I don't know. It's really tricky. Yeah, I mean, it definitely means there's nothing close or anything like that because you don't risk a player. It's a tricky situation, I think, and one I don't think we've heard the last of unfortunately. Let's talk about transfers a bit more. Here is Mikel Arteta speaking after the game last night about more arrivals. Well, there is more that we want to do because every time we have an opportunity to improve the squad and bring more quality and depth to the squad we need to do that.

39:09But we are actively trying to do so. The thing in the market doesn't just depend on you and we are very clear on that. But the approach, the will and the desire of the club. That's unquestionable, and we want to try to do that. But we cannot promise that we're going to do it because, as again, it doesn't only depend on us. I'm curious as to how you parse those particular comments because, you know, he's very clear about what they want to do, and he's said it more than once in the last couple of weeks about the desire to improve the squad and how active they are in the market and to find those talents.

39:45Maybe he's just sort of reminding people that, look, if we want a player, there are, despite our best efforts, other impediments to the deal, right? Could be the selling club, could be the agent, could be personal terms, whatever it might be. But maybe that's just reminding people that it's not easy. It's not just a case of going to the supermarket and buying a player. Or is he beginning to have a few doubts about our ability to get the kind of players that he wants? Morgan Rodgers didn't happen. Vinicius Jr. didn't happen. You know, those are two high-profile deals that Arsenal are very strongly linked with over the course of this summer.

40:23And listen, it'll all come out in the wash. At some point, we'll find out what's going on or what has gone on behind the scenes there. But I just wonder if Mikel Arteta is beginning to get a little bit antsy about some of the improvements that he might like to make to certain areas of the squad. I think it's tricky because, you know, you're looking at who you would want to bring in on that left. And I thought, um, Lewis Ambrose wrote a really good piece, uh, about how Martinelli, you know, he only started, you know, got one goal in the Premier League last year and he just didn't, he does. Have we had this seven year itch with Martinelli?

40:58Have we completely given up on Martinelli? Part of me has, uh, and last night there was a couple of times over, you know, overplayed passes, you know, and, and you're not even surprised by it anymore. Like, yeah, that's Martinelli. Like, yeah, here I am. Uh, but, you know, when you don't get Vinicius Jr. Well, where do you go next? I've heard this conversation with so many different outlets, but what's the point of spending £145 million on a Bradley Barcola if he's not going to improve it with £145 million? Do you know what I mean? It's like go and spend£80 million on Nico Williams. I don't know, man.

41:34I just feel like, is that worth doing? As frustrating as it is, if there isn't the player out there to make that massive difference on that left-hand side, I don't think it's worth just spunking a load of money on it. Yeah. We had this conversation on Monday, myself and James, on the RS Cast Extra, and then you're sort of like, well, if it's not necessarily about upgrade, is it about change? Is it about a different dynamic, a different kind of player who can give you something a little bit different out there? You know what? In an ideal world, Luke, it is like we're sitting here in 12 months' time going, what a fucking season Christos Solis had.

42:11we got a new Trossard and he was even better than the old Trossard and we love the old Trossard you know what I mean and I completely get it with Martinelli I completely understand I thought Lewis' piece was really excellent by the way and it is well worth reading whatever your stance on Martinelli and what you think he can offer and what you think he can bring to the team it is well worth reading I'll put the link to that article in the show notes I mean he's been linked with a move to Galatasaray 45 million pound move to Galatasaray. Sounds good. 45 million pounds, maybe a little low, but you know, it is the Turkish league.

42:47But the reporting is that he does not see himself moving away from Arsenal unless it is to one of Europe's top leagues. And with all due respect to the Turkish league, it's not that. So that seems like a sort of a non-starter, unless the idea that Galatasaray approaching Arsenal makes people aware that Martinelli perhaps is available if there's another club out there that wants to go for him. But why is it that Garnaccio can move to the Premier League many, many times and different clubs? But if Arsenal are trying to sell Martinelli, who's a really good player, who's had some really good seasons and probably needs a new challenge.

43:25I was like, oh, it's only Turkish League and under his value. I just don't, I do not get it with us. Like, why? Like, have we got the wrong phone numbers? He should be able to go to another Premier League team for 50, 60 million pounds and have a new challenge. He's only, what, 25? If I was a buying club, I'd be looking at that guy and yes, happy days, let's bring that guy in. But we don't seem to be able to do it. And I agree with him. If I'm Martellini, I don't want to move to Galatasaray. So I agree with him. I'd rather be staying at Arsenal than moving there. No, I agree with that. like the contention that at 25 you want to go there versus another Premier League club.

44:09I mean, maybe he doesn't want to go to another Premier League club. I don't know what interest is out there, but certainly if 45 million is the price an Arsenal are, maybe, maybe, that should spark some interest from other Premier League clubs or maybe other clubs around Europe. But then again, we don't quite know what the spending power is beyond the big boys, you know the PSGs the Barcelona Real Madrid Bayern Munich I'm not sure that they're going to be the ones who are in for for Martinelli in in the first place you know but that that left side I think is becoming um not an obsession but I do think yeah maybe it is maybe that is the right word we're kind of all obsessed about getting that like mega upgrade there that that is the one where where we really need to make the difference.

45:04What if I said to you, we don't bring in a left winger, but somehow we find another center forward? Would that feel like, okay, we've got a new signing there. We've got Martinelli. We know what he can do. We've also got Eber-Echeza who can play out there if we need to. The left side is more than covered in terms of talent and depth. but if you have concerns, let's say, about the centre-forward position and what a new player might bring in that area, then would that satisfy you from a transfer perspective? Again, the names aren't amazing. There aren't too many of them, but it must be an option that Arsenal are thinking about, right?

45:48Because the standout candidate on the left isn't really sort of there. There's no consensus, right? You must go and get that guy and pay that much money because that's exactly what we need. Yeah, I think with the striker position, I feel like we've got three strikers in Havertz, Jocherez and Marino. And we didn't have Havertz for the first half of the season, Jocherez's first season. And then we didn't have Marino for the second half of the season. So if we can have some good fitness from those guys, I'm quite happy with that. but what I do think is going to be a lot better this season is Odegaard he looked really good last night I think he faded towards the end of the game but he came on and played really well if we can get to see the best of Odegaard again that's encouraging Bruno Guimaraes his vision and the way he is always looking for that pass is something that we've not had I don't think we have that with Declan Rice and so if that can bring more out of Martinelli and Solis or all the striker options, then I think we will improve our goal scoring.

46:58I actually think if I had to put money on it, I don't think we will bring anyone in on the left. And I don't think we'll bring in a striker. I suspect it will be Esri Concer at centre-back. And I suspect that'll probably be it as far as bringing players in. Is that an underwhelming window for you? I think it's a sensible window I think Morgan Rogers would have been wonderful for us but I get they didn't want to spend all that money there seems to be some sort of mucky deal going on for legal reasons I don't know but I can understand you going we're not going to overspend on Morgan Rogers we really wanted Vinny Jr that didn't work out and then we're not going to go and just overspend on someone else who isn't that much of an improvement on Martinelli and maybe just hope that from Martinelli and Solis, we get, you know, a bigger output than we had last season.

47:54Yeah, I thought it was very interesting when you said, we have three strikers, Jokeres, Havertz and Marino, and no mention of Gabriel Jesus, of course, who, you know, I know he's still in the shop window, but I do think that's quite telling, right? Have you even gone home with Como? Like, I felt like that could have been quite a nice place for him. Yeah, Cesc was asking about, you know, we could give them some players. He was probably thinking of good ones, but, you know. I think he'd have a lovely time in Como. Yeah, he would. It's a tremendous lake, you know. And who doesn't love a lake? Yeah, I don't know that he'd fit, but, you know.

48:31I just, I like, Vieira coming on last night as well. I'm just like, oh, that guy, he looks skinnier than he did before. uh like i how are we i just don't see how we're gonna we need those players are 20 30 million pounds all together little bundle little christmas bundle that you can have all in one and they could have all popped on the flight to como or maybe dortmund could have had them like does somebody not want those guys it doesn't look like it i mean hamburg want viera i think but they don't want to pay for him and I don't quite know what Gabriel Jesus' situation is a bit of talk around Napoli Serie A probably would suit him to be honest but I think those are guys that Arsenal absolutely do need to move on I suppose the final thing we need to talk about today and you were there so your keen insight into this was what struck me was the managers and I was like oh my Oh my God, he's wearing the same outfit.

49:38Yeah. What's going on there? Was that coordinated pre-game or was it like, I can't believe you've turned up looking like that? I thought Sesc looked magnificent. He went for a sort of higher-waisted pleated trouser, which is something where I would, I mean, they were both sort of olive green, would you call that? Dark beige or something? Dark beige. A beautiful choice of colour. it made me feel very old because Cesc Fabregas is a month older than me and it made me I just couldn't believe we were watching Cesc Fabregas as a manager and it looking normal it made me think I'd love him to be Arsenal manager one day they looked beautiful together and I think they probably I suspect they didn't plan what they were going to wear but when they went out there they sort of looked at each other and went And, oh, no, we won the same thing.

50:34I don't think Arteta would like that. No, probably not. Probably not. But look, before we go, tell me this. You know, we've talked ourselves in knots around transfers and what way we think the squad is going to shape up ahead of the new season. And look, things can happen very quickly. So we could be sitting here next week and going, oh, I see what they did there. That's good. We all feel happier about that. But without that, do you feel like we're in a good place to go into next season as the champions and sort of assert ourselves in the Premier League in the way that we would all want us to do?

51:11You know, I think I worry a bit about the defensive solidity. You know, when you miss the best central defender in the world or one of the best central defenders in the world, I think that's an inevitable consequence. um but do you think we've got the kind of swagger we need or do we need to get like the likes of rice and saka and maybe ezza back on the pitch to sort of demonstrate that bit of like fuck you we're champions yeah i think i would like to see more of the fuck you we're champions sort of thing and i suspect it will happen over the next two games because even like last night There was lots of good individual performances, but as a collective, there was a lot of things that are off.

51:53And that's bound to happen when you're not putting all your best players. And also, as Arteta said, we have a final on Sunday. We need to change the minutes, need to be distributed in the right way. Usually, in pre-seasons, you see a sort of like six, seven players that are in that group that are going to start. Well, we've not seen that. We'll see that more on Sunday. We'll see that even more against Coventry. There'll probably be a game behind closed doors, I imagine. So it's all come a little bit early, but that's the same for everyone. You know, a lot of teams have had a lot of players away for the World Cup and the season went on very late as well.

52:29I'm not panicking too much. I worry defensively because with no Saliba and no Timber and a Declan Rice that could probably do with another six months off, that's where I fear for Arsenal. So I think that's why I would imagine we do our business. But let's not panic just yet. Okay. I am a little bit. I am a little bit. You are. You look like you're shaking there. I can see people can't see this, but he's rattling in his chair. Not really. Not really. All right. Well, look, there's still time, obviously, to go. Jesus, it's a week tomorrow to the new Premier League season, which is insane. Now I'm panicking, Luke.

53:13Oh, no. Fuck. Yeah, maybe this time next week we'll feel quite a bit better about it. But listen, thank you so much for being here and for joining us today. Really appreciate it. And we'll catch up during the season, I hope. Thank you so much, Andrew. Really, really lovely to speak to everyone and to speak to you.

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