Episode 893: Marli & Max

0:00This ad is sponsored by ZocDoc. Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start? I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZocDoc. Now, as a busy podcaster, parent, and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier. and ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties.

0:33You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and needed to see someone fast. Instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C, and book that appointment on your to-do list.

1:29Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Arsenal made it seven wins out of seven in midweek with a 4-2 win over Ipswich Town in the Carabao Cup third round. I do think the two for Ipswich with a couple of late goals, I'm not going to say added gloss to the scoreline for them because I don't know if you can gloss up a scoreline in which you lose at home and you're 4-0 down for most of the game, but it didn't really reflect how the game went, how well Arsenal played with 10 changes and more, including a load of teenagers on the pitch, some very, very good performances.

2:16Also, by the way, I don't know if you noticed this, Chuba Akpom, former gunner, of course, scored the second goal for Ipswich. But in doing so, before he did it, there was a really, really clear foul on Myles Lewis-Skelly. He just kind of pulled him over, which gave him free reign to get to the ball and score. So we can sort of dismiss the two that Ipswich scored. And we can concentrate quite a bit more on two that Arsenal scored via 16-year-old Max Daman. There are other goals as well and other standout performances. and perhaps some performances which weren't quite up to the level that we would expect or hope.

2:54So we're going to get on with the conversation and with me to do that today, delighted to welcome back from the Stadio podcast. It's Ryan Hunt. Ryan, good morning to you. Happy new season. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm feeling like quite chilled, quite relaxed. Seven wins out of seven for Arsenal. I feel like this is the kind of thing I want to see from my team. just win every game and you know let's get to may and and we can talk about how brilliant it all is

3:21Ryan Hunn: yeah there was i'm always moose and i always talk about this duncan alexander tweet that he wrote about you know each week there's a crisis club in the premier league and the goal is just for your club not to be it yeah yeah i feel like uh kind of very much like that meme if the guy sat at the table in a takeaway while there's just a big fight going on in the background and to be honest you know after last season man i think we deserve it i know we won the league but We all went through it a little bit. I remember a chat you and I had, I think it was either, was it after the City game? And we were talking about how this is so big now and if they didn't get it over the line, what could happen?

3:57Ryan Hunn: And I think we deserve some kind of routine victories. Yes, I agree with that. Some people thought it was done, but it turned out that it was not done. And yeah, I think we're reaping the benefits of that. And then, you know, midweek we have this Carabao Cup game. Maybe not the friendliest of draws because you're getting another Premier League team. And we'll talk about the fourth round draw, which is quite nice in a moment. At the same time, though, you're facing an Ipswich team who I think I'm right in saying made 10 changes from the side that played at the weekend. So while you are facing Premier League opposition, you're also facing a team who, well, the priority is to remain in the Premier League, right?

4:46So if the Carabao Cup falls by the wayside, oh, well, you know, that's not really what they're playing for this season. So there was a lot of rotation on their part and a lot of rotation on the part of Mikel Arteta as well. I think 10 changes for Arteta. The only player who played or who started on Tuesday night was Gabriel from the team that beat, why is my mind blank, these wins are so, Sunderland, of course. I should remember that. That was a slightly eventful kind of game. But yeah, only one change or only one guy who remained in that. And then a lot of changes, some young players in the team.

5:25You know, Arteta has in the past been very, I think his default is to go with experience, right? If he can do that, he can go with experience. But he's also not afraid to use young players. And I think given the need to rest people like Declan Rice, to give David Raya a rest, to keep Bakayo Saka on the bench, et cetera, I was really pleased to see the kind of team that he put out the other night. Albeit there were a couple of changes or a couple of players in positions you wouldn't normally expect because of the injuries.

5:55Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. I think also it's just we can't underestimate the power of winning the Premier League, right? Where the Carabao Cup a few years ago is a real priority because it's like, well, if Arsenal can just win the Carabao Cup, then what could that lead to? You know, especially when they're quite far away from winning the league. And then when you get over the line of the league and you're looking to the next season and you've got to a Champions League final, and you put 10 changes in the third round against Ipswich away and you go out and people are because of the league form people are much more like they find it way easier to compartmentalize that and be like look actually yeah 10 changes we had like four teenagers on the pitch not it's fine right whereas if you look if you compare that to what's happened when Manchester United off the back of the weekend and being 2-0 up at home very kind of similar openings to the games and very different outcomes, right?

6:51Ryan Hunn: So you can see how it's kind of like, it's like the Carabao Cup paradox, right? And in one sense, it can be quite good for momentum and quite important for some teams. In the other sense, it's not the worst thing in the world. So I think that there was definitely a potential there for it to be tricky, because I just think when you make that many changes, you never really know what's going to happen in terms of what the team's going to look like. And I just think the opening 10, 15 minutes or so was just so, it couldn't have gone any better really. No. And that just kind of killed the game. Well, I'm all for that.

7:22I'm all for killing games, to be honest. I'll tell you. You know, I like it. I like early goals. I like the fact it settles you down. I like the fact it sort of makes the opposition play a little differently because they've got to react to the fact that you've gone ahead. And listen, I think the best place to start is Max Dowman because, well, we all know there's a player of real potential there. We can see the talent. We can see that. He's 16 years of age. He does not turn 17 until December 31st. For a player of his age to be playing under-21 football is ahead of schedule. For a player of his age to be playing first-team football for Arsenal, even if it is the Carabao Cup, you know, it's remarkable.

8:05I thought there was something really quite interesting in what Mikel Arteta said afterwards. And we'll talk about what Mike's did and how he contributed to this game in a second. But I see people talk all the time. Yeah, he's 16. So what if he's only 16? Lamin-Yemal, he can do it. You know, what's different about that? Narteta was really quite specific in his post-game press conference where he talked about that idea, but he said in this league, in England, I really do think it is different. I think you have to be a little more cautious. You have to be conscious of the fact that this is the most intense, physically demanding league in world football, I would say, because of the consistent caliber of the players that exist from the bottom teams all the way to the top.

9:00You've got really great players. You've got players who are not afraid to put it about. You've got, you know, the physical, just the normal physical aspects of the game. But, you know, there's players out there who, you know, wouldn't mind going in a little bit on a 16-year-old and going, welcome to the big leagues, son. This is, you know, this is what it's all about. So I do think as we get excited about what Max can do and where he can go as a player and what he can bring to this team, when Arteta talks about being cautious with him and making sure that the environment is right for him to play and start and to take the pitch for Arsenal, I think we kind of have to respect that.

9:42Even if there are players in other leagues, in other countries of a similar age or who maybe made their breakthroughs at that age, we have to be conscious that it is different in England.

9:53Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. And I think if you think of some key examples in the last 20, 25 years, compare Spain and England. Michael Owen broke through very, very young. The peak of his career ended probably sooner. I know he had a lot of injuries as well. Wayne Rooney, the same, broke through very, very, very young. and had a lot of their football age. It's like when people say so-and-so is an old 28 or whatever. And I think a really interesting example is Cesc Fabregas because if you compare Sergio Busquets, Lionel Messi, played the majority of their career at Barcelona. Messi's still playing. He's 39.

10:33Ryan Hunn: I know he's playing in MLS, but still he got to a World Cup final. Busquets retired at 37. Cesc's career was kind of I mean what is he now he's 39 by the time he was 31, 32 it was clear that he was not going to maintain that level really anymore I know he went to Monaco and he had an okay time there but it was different and I found that really that comparison quite interesting because he was somebody who came up through those La Masia teams and then went to England and got the majority of his career early minutes in the Premier League right at 16, 17 so I think there is a obviously that's there are examples all over the place but i just off the top of my head those were the kind of things i could think of in yes that's another one isn't it you know Sergio Ramos even is another one you know yeah i mean like Iniesta you know they they were also held back quite a lot if you actually look at the times that they locked down first team places it's probably older than you think like Javi and Iniesta were probably older than you think they were when they were locking down a first team place completely and so i think that's that's really interesting from Marteta that he's brought that comparison up because I do think that we get as fans we get so excited about a prospect coming through and there you know as we've seen with Miles's breakthrough over the last couple of years and why there was so much angst about potentially selling Ethan Ranieri we what is why Pakai Osaka is beloved right you want to see your youth graduates into the team and have as many of them in there as possible but you also have a duty of care to a to a teenager right and i think that it's really important for michael's had to get that message out there to be like look you're gonna see max probably over the next year to 18 months come on and have an impact but he's not going to start the next game and just kind of get used to that and just so then people just stop talking about it so I think it's it's it's a really good point I think we have seen cases of this before where the players have been rushed in at a young age and they've just got way too much football in their legs by the time they're in the mid-20s there's also a you know a sort of human element to this as well isn't there that like for all the footballing quality he has and the football intelligence and we saw that on the pitch the other night there are challenges I think of being a super famous footballer, which anybody who plays for Arsenal or who plays in the Premier League is.

13:06There are challenges that come with that in your day-to-day life in terms of how you're talked about, how people react to you, what people want from you, that there is a psychological or a mental maturity that is required as well. And I know from having spoken to people and people will be aware of this. You know, he's got good people around him, good family, keep his feet on the ground, all those kinds of things. But, you know, you can see sometimes a player of, you know, 19, 20, 21 years of age, they do. Here's a great example. Granit Xhaka. How long did it take Granit Xhaka to mature on the pitch, right?

13:49Genuinely, and I'm not being funny about this, But he was a guy who in his mid-20s was still involved in moments where with all the football he had under his belt, despite the fact he was like a man in his mid-20s, he was still capable of getting involved in nonsense that he shouldn't have been involved in. right and it takes time and everyone's different it does take time to mature i think there's an element of of that as well when it comes to a 16 year old boy which is what we're talking about here where they have to make sure that that aspect of his development is is looked after as well yeah i mean i just if we ever we all think back to being 16 years of age and the prospect of being

14:38Ryan Hunn: 16 years of age and having to having the level of fame that modern footballers have now is just terrifying. You know, it's terrifying. And I think that I think we've seen that there's a real there is a real duty of care that the club take very seriously. And I know football clubs should do and do on the whole anyway, but I think it's quite, it's been a long long time since Arsenal have had the number of academy graduates playing in the first tip. There was one moment on the Epswich game where I think Myles was the oldest player within about 20, 30 yards of a radius. I was like, that's quite silly, actually.

15:20Ryan Hunn: But, you know, the fact that Myles Lewis-Skelly is essentially locking down... I mean, I know when Bruno Gimaraes is fully fit, he would probably start, but compared to where we were six months ago, the idea that Myles Lewis-Skelly is basically like the first choice central midfielder along with Declan Rice, It's kind of amazing and putting in the performances that he's been putting in. Plus Pukai Osaka, plus the prospect of Max Dowman, plus Marley Simon coming in. You know, there are just, there are, that's, it's felt like a long time since we've had the potential for four, potentially five first teamers to be academy graduates of that quality.

16:00Ryan Hunn: and so it is really easy to get carried away but i think the club are kind of prepared that that we don't just have to do this for max even though he's going to be the superstar potentially we have to do this for all of them yeah um so it's good practice no i i agree and i think as well you know the being cognizant of the fact we live in a very different world than the one that even you know 16 year old sesc fabregas came up in you know it's a very very different world and you know the way things disseminate online now you know like the first piece of advice i would give to any footballer if i could do it is just like fucking never get a phone and never look at it you know get a landline if someone wants to call you they can wait till you're back from training it must be crazy you know to to be a young person and to see that level of discourse around you and to see like in many ways a lot of the insanity that goes with that good bad and indifference something in the middle but yeah you know leaving that aside let's talk about what max did because the the first goal is just i'm glad you mentioned this because i've this is what i made a note to talk about it is it's unbelievable because i think you know as it plays a pass and i'm not necessarily sure it's for max but he nips in takes the ball and this is where i think you look at a player and you say we often talk about decision making don't we talk about the speed of thought we talk about because they're all like talented and they're good with the ball at this level but what separates the really good players is is you know how they make decisions and how quickly they make decisions on the pitch I think there are young players who if given an opportunity like Max Damman the other night with Eberici Eze running outside them would say I'll default to the senior man here I'll play the pass outside and I'll see if Eze can finish with his left foot or if he can play the pass he can open up on his on his right foot sorry to cut in but i think there are many many young players this is the thing i wanted to say who would not steal the ball off jokeres in the first place yeah well that's and jokeres is kind of stood there like you know like i don't know like one of the kids at a family party has just nicked their food or something like that he's just like look this guy just nicked my stuff it's like it's like that scene from the simpsons where homer's trying to eat uh crisps or tortilla chips or something and all the little puppies just keep flying across it.

18:25That's exactly what it is. Every time Yacharaz tries to eat a tortilla chip, there's a Max Downman puppy coming across and nicking the ball. But what I thought was just fantastic about this was the fact that he saw Ezzer, he knew he had him there, and he knew the defender knew that Ezzer was there. And the way he sort of went past the defender, it wasn't like he produced a fucking amazing trick. He just sort of gave a little shimmy. the defender's gone to the shops he cuts inside finishes with his right foot which is his weak foot by the way really good finish into the bottom corner and that whole passage of play was just like oh god we're doing it are we seven minutes into the game you're going to do this max down and

19:08Ryan Hunn: just unbelievable i think this was the um probably the strongest example of why we're seeing michael to play him centrally because when you play him out wide he's very effective but it gives defenders an opportunity to know which way he's probably going to go and it actually limits his full game potential you know he's such he's got such good balance and he can go either way i think that it just means defenders are constantly on their heels because they're just i don't know what i don't know which way he's going to go and there's a really funny moment actually when when he starts when he does the shimmy and as it just kind of stops he's just like all right i don't i'm gonna say i don't need i know where this is going yeah i know what's going on here and i thought i just thought it was really funny to see him essentially take charge of a situation that involved two other much more senior players and um but not do it in a way that is you know kind of like an arrogant young just like you know yeah not like do you know what i mean it felt very it almost felt like they'd given him permission to do that and it was fine um just yeah i mean he's amazing man i can't i can't think of enough words that would do his ability justice and that's why i'm you know as exciting as it would be to see him come in and all of a sudden just become a first team player that is performing at a level that no one can get close to there is such a special talent there that i would much rather we especially with the squad that we have at the moment if this is like eight years ago it's probably different right because we don't have the personnel especially now i would much rather get 15 16 years of of the potential that Mac De Staumann can get to, then maybe have him for 10 because he's rushed in early.

21:09Ryan Hunn: Sure. And then it just kind of flame out. Yeah. And so, and that's without like the, you know, the human aspect of it. So, so yeah, man, it's just so exciting. I tell you one thing I did notice and, and this is, you know, not to be in any way critical of him, but I felt at times last season, there were moments where I don't know if he sort of leaned into his age, where he said, well, I'm 16, what do you want me to do here? And I mean that sort of defensively, and we know how much Mikel Arteta puts stock in the work that you do defensively. He made three tackles the other night. Only Martin Zubimendi made more.

21:50He's tied with Marley Salmon on that. Now, I want to talk about Marley Salmon in a minute as well because there was a, you know, he looked at much more switched on Max Dowman to me, going both ways and i think that is just something you learn isn't it as you as you sort of transition from a level where you're too good for that level and we saw it you know when he was playing youth football he'd just sort of dance his way through and score a goal and score four goals in a game or whatever it might be and it was just a case that like right you you get the ball give it to

22:24Ryan Hunn: me and i'll do what needs to be done yeah it stops becoming good for their development of course of Of course. Whereas, you know, when you step up to first team level, you've got to be across all aspects of the game. You can't just be good at one thing because you'll never be that good at that thing to offset, you know, what you're either not good at or not doing enough of. And I saw that the other night. I saw him chasing back. I saw him, you know, from that midfield position, be aware of where he needed to be in moments of transition. And listen, the two goals are the things that catch the eye.

22:59But I thought that was a pleasing aspect of what we saw from him.

23:02Ryan Hunn: yeah he's also just at an age where his physicality is just going to change i swear he came back after summer about three or four inches taller do you know i mean like he is at that age where you you know he's going to have growth spurts and stuff right and so it's i think there is that element of it as well where you you're kind of you know you're not really you know you're kind of still growing into your body at that age and it changes and there's a lot there's a lot to I think that's also another reason that's probably leaning into the caution that Mikel Arteta is showing here is that there is a literal physical thing to that as well.

23:41Ryan Hunn: It's like, look, this is not a 26-year-old. And I do wonder if that added, I think he looks like a more physically robust player this season than he did last season. And I wonder if that's also making him a little more confident in the defensive side of the game. sure because he doesn't like last season there were a couple of times when you can be like if someone really wanted to muscle him off they could kind of do it and i think that doesn't look quite as easy to do this season in the moments that he's had no of course you know physical maturity as we talked about you know at 16 you know uh you're just so different from where you are in three or four years you know um as you sort of fill out and get more muscle and good luck to Premier League defenders when you get a hench Max Downman running at you, God almighty the second goal, let's talk about the second goal because I really like this as well, it's good play down the right hand side, I think it's Martin Zubimendi plays a pass from the edge of the box, it hits a hand, potentially could have been a penalty if the ball hadn't gone through to Downman, but it did and he makes this finish look so easy, just like, oh yeah, I've done this a hundred times I'll do it again I'm going to make a horrible comparison that I don't mean to make but it just it's very Messi-esque that where you sometimes you have to rewind tape that Messi does and you're a bit like a tape of things that he does and you're a bit like how is that because he's not really done any I can't see where he's really done that but it is just these there are moments that some players can just spot quicker than other players and it's almost like they know the precise pace to put on the ball that's it where to put it precision isn't it it's all about precision it's just it's calculations and it's feel it's like you know in golf it's like it's like someone having an amazing short game and just feel do you know i mean and not really you know not getting a range finder out all the time be like how much have i got you know it's just it's just sometimes you just have that feel for a sport and i think that even some of the players with some of the best ability in the world maybe don't quite have the feel of other players and I think that's where Max is a really, it's such a unique player in that sense that we've seen come through because I don't even really feel like that's kind of a major part of Bakayosaka's game or it wasn't when he came through.

26:08Ryan Hunn: Do you know what I mean? The ability was all there. I think there was slightly different things. I think his intelligence, I think, is a real, Bakayosaka's spatial, especially because he came through and played left back, I think that gave him such an amazing kind of like view of the pitch that he's taken to that position where he's moved on the right hand side. And the feel has been something that he's really developed, I think. Like he's got much better at like different kinds of finishing, for example. And I think where Max is almost like natural ability seems to be that, you know, ability to kind of finish or the kind of feel to just shimmy very quickly, go past someone.

26:47Ryan Hunn: It's just like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I feel like I'm just going to repeat the same stuff over and over again because it's just so good. There's only so many good words I know. Yeah, exactly. I know what you mean. It's just very, very impressive. It was one of those before the game when you were running through permutations of the team and we didn't know that Incapier would be out and we weren't sure about Mosquera. We weren't sure exactly what Mikel Arteta might do in midfield. It was one of those where you're going, well, maybe this is a game based on who needs to play. Like if it was a Zubimendi, Marino, Lewis Skelly midfield, you know, you've got Matiweke on the right, Eze on the left, Jokka Eze up top.

27:24Maybe Max has to wait for his chance. But listen, you know, he took his opportunity really, really well. But then so too did Marley Salmon. And I think his performance, because of what Max did, has gone under the radar in quite a significant way here. because, and I've said this before, there's more margin for error as a young attacking player than there is as a young defender. Because if you make a mistake as a defender, it costs you a goal. And, you know, people might be willing to say, okay, well, he's 17 years of age, you know, give him a break. If it happens again, you know, people's patience runs out eventually.

28:11But I thought when I looked at Marley Salmon in this game and I went over the stats and I had a look at the stats, right? And I was fucking blown away.

28:22Ryan Hunn: Yeah. 100 % pass completion. 65 out of 65. 65 out of 65 passes. Remember, he's playing with a midfielder outside him at right back. He's not playing with an actual right back. He's playing with two different central defensive partners. he's ending the game with a an 18 year old academy guy uh ahead of him in midfield in if i abraham ibrahim and theo julien outside him as right back as well so he is sort of the consistent cog in that part of the pitch right where everything else is changing around him or there's people being out of people out of position three tackles in the game only zubamendi and bruno Gimaraes made more.

29:09He had five clearances in this game. No Arsenal player made more clearances. And there was just this sort of serenity about his game. 84 touches of the ball, by the way, no Arsenal player had more touches of the ball. This is a 17-year-old. It's actually ridiculous what he did in this game. And I understand why people are talking about Max and why we've just talked about, Max. But I think Marley Salmon deserves his props for this game. And I have to say there's part of me, or there was part of me, you know, when we have this worry about Ben White and Jurian Timber and Christian Mosquera at this moment in time, there's part of me going, that duty of care we referenced earlier is like, don't throw a 17-year-old into Premier League action.

30:02Don't ask too much of them this early in their career. I'd be a little less worried about that now based on what I saw from him in this game. Because, you know, despite the fact Dipswich made changes, he was facing Premier League opposition. Zian Fleming is a guy who played all last season for Burnley, I think, and has come up. He's played all the games. He scored the winner on the weekend. Exactly. And he is a big, strong, annoying Premier League centre forward. And he got zero change out of this kid.

30:35Ryan Hunn: i find uh the marley salmon role let's say because these these graduates always like quite often come in twos right there and they usually you know there's quite often like a double like almost like a double act you know happened with ethan and miles it's now with mac it was uh emile smith rowan bakaya saka and it now seems like it's Max and Marley. Max and Marley sounds like a great... There's a title for this episode straight away. And I find his maturity absolutely staggering, like staggering because... What was the cup game last season that he played in a way at right back? I can't remember who it was.

31:23Ryan Hunn: It was in the FA Cup, I remember it. it was against fucking Hereford or somebody like that. I'll go back and have a look while you're talking. Yeah. Sorry. I forgot. I've kind of, there's so many games I've seen, but I remember him. Didn't, did he get caught for something in that game, but he kept still playing football and he was just, and he just had a Mansfield. Mansfield. And I just remember thinking, yeah, this reminds me, and I don't want to kind of go over the top because we've seen a lot of prospects come through before and we've got really excited about them. And then, you know, it's very very very difficult for any prospect to release there to reach their full potential you know but there's something about him that reminds me of when you go back and look at the early appearances of quite iconic defenders usually european defenders you know there's an air of um it's just a coolness that he has where he doesn't ever seem i've never really seen him phased once and he's had some very difficult opposition that he's coming against and like you said the physicality involved there especially when he was coming on as a 16 year old i mean even now it's it's just wild but i think what's interesting is that he has out of the two his role is so much more important or it was the other night because arsenal are really stacked with you know attacking talent and as good as max is they probably would have been fine against ipswich but there's that there was actually an issue at the back and the fact that he was the player to complete 90 minutes and you managed to um give both of your first choice current first choice centre-halves just a half each.

33:14Yeah, time share of the game, yeah. That is not only the importance

33:19Ryan Hunn: of his performance, so it was fine, and the fact that you can rely on him and the actual performance, like you mentioned, the stats were unbelievable. But it's the reliability and knowing that Mikel Arteta could go and do that for another game if he needs to. Because the thing that has caused Arsenal so many problems over the last few years is the lack of ability to rotate or the lack of willingness to rotate. And the more that we see people like Marley Simon coming and just be, you know, super calm, unflappable. There will be games that he struggles in because he's 17 years old and a defender.

33:53Ryan Hunn: But still, the amount of positive knock-ons that that has as well, that's so important and that's such a major role to play. And I think more critical and crucial at points of the season than it will be having to rely on Max Downman. Do you know what I mean? and like you said like one error and that can mean that he goes out of the side for a while it's a big responsibility and I think that I also think that he will probably be quietly he seems like the kind of guy who's just like yeah let Max take let Max take the hype you know and behind the scenes everyone's reassuring him how important his job was and how his performance was just again feel very very lucky that Arsenal have got a player like that coming through because he looks just like the real deal and i know if musa was here from stadia he'd probably be talking about maldini or something like that because like that's just what would happen but he's but it's it's you know it's understandable why you would kind of make those comparisons like that right because we've not just seen it once now we've seen it quite a few times so yeah yeah it's it's just so assured you know and you think of you know young defenders who've come through at Arsenal down the years who've looked the part.

35:08So I'm really conscious of, you know, David O 'Leary was a young guy when he came through. Tony Adams was a young guy when he came through. But it did take them time and you do make mistakes and you have to, as a defender, the learning curve for you isn't necessarily just a game like this where you do really well. I think there was one moment where he slipped over and Gabriel sort of gave him the thumbs up and it was like, come on, get your head back into it. And he wasn't phased by that at all. But you can also remember when players like Philippe Sendros and Johan Juru came through, there was a lot of hype around those two guys that ultimately didn't quite manifest itself in terms of the careers we thought they might have.

35:53Because being a defender is a really, really, really difficult job in the Premier League because more than ever, as we referenced earlier, Everything you do, whether you're a defender, a midfielder, a striker, everything is scrutinized to the nth degree. Everything becomes a clip or everything can become a meme. You know, you've got a lot to deal with here. But I just thought, you know, in the absence of like one, how many, three, four senior defenders, White, Muscara, Timber and Incapier, for him to step up and do that, boy.

36:30Ryan Hunn: It's amazing. I think the thing is as well is that compared to even, I mean, when did Sanderos and that come through mid 2000s, late 2000s? Yeah. Maybe early 2010s, that kind of like. Well, yeah. Sanderos was involved maybe 2005, 2004, 2005, because he was around for Champions League final and stuff like that. So what defenders are now expected to do compared to then is even different. And I think that that's why you're seeing, like in terms of actual skill set,

37:12Ryan Hunn: he's quite different to a lot of defenders that I've seen come through Arsenal, especially centre-backs. And so, yeah, I mean, it's quite hard to gauge what his ceiling will be. And like you say, there will be bumps in the road and you always have that second season syndrome after someone breaks through for the first time. Miles Wisceli went through it after that amazing season before young players go through that. But he, like I said, I just think it's such a difficult thing to do, what he did the other night especially. And what he has done when he's played, there have been moments, I can't think of a real, apart from, I think there was that moment against Mansfield where it was just a little kind of dribble here and he got caught or something.

38:01Ryan Hunn: Apart from that, there's not really been anything. So yeah, just, again, it just, the positives of this are, for example, if there is half an hour to go in a Premier League game that's kind of done and you have a Champions League game in midweek, you can take someone off, you know? You can take them off. You can take Gabriel off. You can take Konza off because you know that he's going to be fine next to either of them. You could take Ben White off or Jurian Timber off. And play him at right back. Yeah, exactly. The fact that he can play right back as well, it's just such a handy addition to have there at the moment.

38:38Ryan Hunn: So, yeah, a lot of positives from this week. A lot of positives. And obviously the fourth round draw saw us get Fleetwood Town away from home. I had no idea where Fleetwood Town was, so I looked it up this morning. Yeah, the northwest. Yeah, slightly north of Blackpool. They play at Highbury Stadium as well, which rings some kind of a bell. They also play in red and white, you know. So it's written in the stars. But a very nice draw in that sense because it does give Mikel Arteta the opportunity to use his squad again. And by the way, before we talk about that, we finished this game with a 16-year-old, 17 year old to 18 year olds and a 19 year old grizzled veteran miles lewis skelly the leader of the pack there at 19 years on a school night yeah exactly you know i mean there is something slightly throwback issues in there to that idea that uh that the carabao cup is where you know arson wenger used to always play the kids and it's not necessarily true if you go back and look at some of the teams obviously there were young players in there but there was a you know more than a smattering of experienced players involved in those games as well but i think you know to finish with five hayland boys on the pitch ranging from 16 through to 19 is it's fantastic and whatever you might think of this competition and how highly it ranks which i'm guessing is not particularly in comparison to premier league and champions league for very obvious reasons it's things like this which give it that just slight bit of early season romanticism as annoying as it might be you know when you get to the business end of the season you're like oh god double header semi-final against newcastle in the carabao cup this is the last thing we need i think these early rounds can give you stories and moments which i think are really uh enjoyable to an extent as a fan you know yeah and a much needed kind of bit of variety and respite i think from the grind of the Premier League, which is every point seems so consequential.

40:47Ryan Hunn: Almost reminds me of, you know, like you and I are probably a lot older than a lot of listeners, right? So like back in the day, CD singles or even like vinyl singles, you know, the B-sides, the B-sides were a bonus. The B-sides are, oh, actually, you get to see all of this, you know, oh, wow, what a luxury to be able to have these, like the squad depth and the priorities now that we can finish a game in the Carabao Cup with a load of hail and teenagers on the pitch. Because at times, there have been times over the last however long, I know we've gone out early at points as well, but there have been times over the last, well, under Arteta, that that competition has felt quite important.

41:31Ryan Hunn: And I think it's quite cool that we have these little free hits like this now. I know that's a bit of a term that not a lot of people like but you know it felt it this week felt kind of like that really yeah I know what you mean I know what you mean it is the idea I think that that listen I you know people's opinions will vary and and how much you're invested in the Carabao Cup you know is a conversation that happens every year and there are some people who will be like I don't care about it at all the earlier we go out the better and I get it I do understand that particularly when we were you know trying to get ourselves over the line in Premier League terms but I don't think you can separate that from the way he's tried to build a culture within the club which is that every game is important every game matters every time you pull on the Arsenal shirt you're representing the badge and the fans and it is there to be won right you can't just you can't try and create that kind of environment and then say this competition doesn't matter you know i think maybe the way to deal with it or the way we saw it dealt with on tuesday was 10 changes yep that's how you deal with it yeah because it also adjusts expectation right if you put out a full strength team and then you struggle and it's a bit like people though people are anxious about people getting injured and also it allows you a sense of freedom to be like look we made a lot of changes but everyone got rest yeah performance was fine we've gone out blah blah blah there are levels there are types of defeats you know and I think that that's that's what 10 like four or five doesn't quite get you that but 10 does yeah so I think that's why it's it's not necessarily a bad thing this season especially off the back of last season where the priorities now are to retain the Premier League and to try and get the Champions League over like those are the two main targets for the club this season even if you know officially everyone wants to win every game because they do yeah they're going to be able to compartmentalize that yeah for sure can i can i just shout out one more thing from this game i don't know if you wanted to move on by all marino's celebration yeah um which was the arsenal like arsenal in sign language and it's it's kind of like got a bit of traction uh which i think is really cool and all like lots of what we're more has been doing and has has kind of been doing that for the women's team for quite a while and i think it's really cool to see someone from the men's team pick up a similar thing because i think it means it's just quite a nice thing it means quite a lot to like to the the deaf community as well and i think that it's it would be really cool to see a little more synergy like that among the arsenal women men's and women's teams because i think it's just quite cool i think you know if there's a guy that you're going to pick from this team who's going to be the nice guy to do a nice thing it's 100 going to be michael marino isn't it i agree yeah you know and what a goal by the way i mean listen it's just such a good finish he made it look really, really easy.

44:25And I think, you know, that, that quality he has in that area of the pitch is, is interesting. I did want to talk maybe about a couple of the senior players and I know we're going to, you know, probably when you look at what we got from some of those senior players, it was a bit of a mixed bag, right? I think Marino got, you know, put in a good performance in midfield. I think he had four key passes in this game, one through to Nani Matuweke who I thought was really good who scored a very good goal Zubimendi I agree we've seen him fluff his lines there before to be fair we've seen that ball end up in nowhere near the bottom corner that is for sure and I think he deserves credit for his overall performance as well because I thought it was a positive one for him Zubimendi it's hard to really gauge because he played most of the game at right back but nevertheless got himself an assist and he supported madweke kind of uh pretty well on the left ebreche as technically he gets an assist for the max downman goal but like i think we all recognize that that is like a statistical assist rather than uh let's say a miles lewis skelly for ricardo calafuri assist in the community shield that's a fucking assist playing cowbell yeah exactly and getting a Sogright credit but you know overall I thought he kind of struggled a little bit out on the left he did try to take his men on it just didn't really happen for him out there on the left

45:58Ryan Hunn: yeah it's my one major concern really from the game not that I'm particularly worried about Ebreche but I've just seen some rumblings you know it's the kind of game that you would like him to dominate because he has the ability to dominate. He's super exciting. I do, the only thing I wondered if he's kind of looking at Max playing centrally and he's like, I should kind of be central. But I actually, I'm not entirely sure that he is as fixated on playing centrally as maybe some of the conversation around him playing centrally is either because I think players like playing wherever. Obviously we had the Villa performance when he came on at halftime and was brilliant in that second half and really integral to Arsenal winning the game.

46:41Ryan Hunn: I would like to see more from him just because he is a fabulous player.

46:52Ryan Hunn: I think also though, a part of me is wondering whether the game was kind of over so quickly in a way, in a way. And it felt very much very early on that this was going to be like the max show. I'm wondering if he was just like, well, I'm just going to let the game come to me as opposed to forcing it, which I'm also fine with really. i i'm i'm not too fussed about eber ecce as a performances in the carabao cup early stages i'm more interested to see like if he plays sorry no no no i was just going to sort of say as a playing devil's advocate kind of here this is one of those where you know i think it will apply to the next player we talk about as well is that you i get what you're saying like what he does want him to stamp there you kind of want them to take that opportunity you know that that this is a moment for them to kind of show the manager what they can do.

47:40And I think, you know, from Marley to Max to Nani Matueke, Mikel Marino, I think, you know, we saw players who did that. And I think maybe with Eze and with Victor Jokerez, which I want to ask you about now in a moment, we didn't quite get that from them. And it's not that every player has to play brilliantly in every game. It is just, you know, going back to what we were talking about in terms of how do you deal with the Carabao Cup? You make 10 changes. but how do you deal with Premier League then Champions League, Premier League then Champions League, Premier League, Champions League? You need to be able to make changes and I think what you need or what you want to see, ideally, from players in games like this are performances which make the manager feel comfortable in making those changes when you're not playing in the fourth tier competition when you're going from Premier League to Europe, Premier League to Europe and you can't play Kai Havertz in every game and you can't play Christos Solis on the left in every game.

48:39You know, you need those players. So it's trying to, you know, assess that aspect of what they brought the other night in terms of how we parse that out through the entire season.

48:51Ryan Hunn: I do also think you mentioned them there, but I think just make a point of shouting out Myles Lewis-Skelly and Martin Zubamendi, who I think were both really good. and

49:05Ryan Hunn: and how look I just want to kind of highlight that because that's a real luxury that not many teams have where they have a World Cup squad winning central midfielder who was up until January everyone was saying without doubt was the signing of our season last season and he was the probably the player of the season for the first half of the season last season for Arsenal and Marzo Iskele who's coming to midfield to have them to go be able to put them at full backs as fullbacks for a game like this it's just another like and for them to have the the like the competency to just go and do that without any fuss i think it's just amazing just wanting to kind of dude we haven't we haven't even mentioned the name of bruno gimarache at all in this conversation which is absurd because he was really good as well yeah exactly like this is the thing that is you know sometimes it's just uh yeah it's quite wild when you look at the depth but going Going back to Eze, I think Eze and Jokeres thing I think is slightly different.

50:03Ryan Hunn: And I don't want to say that there's one rule for one and one for the other because I don't think that's true. But I do think it is slightly different because a thing that's been quite often thrown at Victor Jokeres is that he can kind of do it against maybe not top tier defences. But I think as we saw with his time at Sporting and the Champions League, he can do it against top tier defences. I think this is the kind of game that you're looking, if you were going to kind of draw up what you would hope for coming out of this game, you want to go and look at the results and say like Jokeres brace.

50:38Ryan Hunn: Do you know what I mean? It's just one of those games that feels like not even a goal maybe, but like a brace, just a bit of a like, yeah, I can still do this and just get some reps in. I think the thing that is worrying about Jokeres compared to Eze is that I think Eze still just looks like himself. He just maybe didn't have that real final. it still looked very kind of he was quite tidy and he was linking up fine and you know Jocheres

51:06Ryan Hunn: he just it looks like he doesn't really have that that kind of swagger or arrogance that made him so dangerous when he was at sporting can I sort of set the scene for this part of the conversation because I'm really conscious of I wrote about it today in the blog so people can go and read the blog please if you're listening to this before you get to this part of it just go and read the blog the link is in the show notes I'm trying to remember a player around whom there have been such extremes of discussion at Arsenal and listen I see it in the comments on the podcast I see it in the comments on social media, the comments on the site.

51:51Simultaneously, I've been accused of being really too harsh on him and also way too lenient on him. That the bad things I do, I try and make excuses for, and I overlook the good things. And actually, I've tried very hard to sort of give credit where it's due, but also have a sensible, reasonable conversation about a player around whom the these conversations exist day after day after day online. And I realized that that is, you know, part and parcel of the world we live in, right? But there's a reason why those conversations exist online. And, you know, I'm, you can't please all of the people all of the time, right?

52:37But I can't, I can't be too harsh on him and too lenient on him at the same time. I don't really understand how that works. I have reservations about him as a player and what he can do. I was disappointed in the performance the other night against Ipswich because I felt, and again, this could be me, and I don't know what you think, I just wanted to ask you, I felt like he looked like a guy who, for probably various reasons, looks short on confidence, isn't moving the way you would expect a striker at Arsenal to move. I remember one moment in the first half In particular, Matuweke put in a really good cross.

53:15And I'm looking for a striker's movement across the defender. You've got a chance at the near post. And he's sort of waiting for the ball to come to him. There are other things sort of late in the game where he slightly came to life a bit and did quite well and moved the ball about a bit. But I think by an hour in, he'd had only nine touches of the ball. And it's not the first time that this has happened this season where we've had a dominant performance and he hasn't really been involved at all. So I'm sort of curious as to your take on what we do here, because here's the reality of it. Even if Kai Havertz is the number one striker, and I think that's the case, and even if there is a fairly logical argument to be made that in certain games, if you don't have Kai Havertz, Mikel Moreno is the next best choice for centre forward, we have to get more out of Victor Jokeres.

54:08There's an issue with where he stands with us and where we stand with him. But the very earliest that we can do anything about this is 20 games from now. Right. And that's assuming that, you know, you can do anything about it that quickly in the January transfer market, which I don't think is the case. If you can't find the upgrade in the summer market, the January market is much more difficult to do that. So I think, you know, it's perfectly fine to have these conversations around Victor Jokeres. Where I think it's probably more interesting is because, you know, people's opinions will vary on all kinds of players.

54:45What's more interesting to me is how do we get more out of him? Because I think even if you're a whatever side of the spectrum you're on, whether you're a Jokeres stan or whether you're Jokeres, whatever the opposite of a stan is, you would probably have to admit. that we have something of an issue here with this player right now at this moment in time?

55:10Ryan Hunn: Yes. I think, so just from my personal experience, I feel like I'm asked more about Jokeres than I actively begin to talk about him because I think that there's two reasons. So first of all, I think squad dynamic changes so dramatically over the course of a season, especially on the after the world cup you don't really know the physical shape that a lot of people are in how up to speed they are conditioning wise and yeah last season he struggled right and then i think he actually had a pretty okay season last season i think that was just so much it was being judged around against the noise or the expectation or the discourse right and i think that that can be quite a hard thing to fully assess where a player is at.

56:02Ryan Hunn: I think the second thing is, and this is a bit of a tangent, so apologies, but I watched a thing the other day, I think it was the CEO or the president of Como, did an interview, and he's talking about Cesc Fabregas' approach. And something that Cesc Fabregas does is he writes a report pre-game to send to the executive board so that when they watch the game, they know what he's trying to do, as opposed to just being like, why is the striker not scoring? right okay and i found it really interesting and then he debriefed them afterwards and says oh this happened and this happened and this happened so it's more about like there isn't a separation there because for example i imagine a lot of people who are on the board might be like why is our striker not scoring and the president made a point of being like actually it wasn't his role to score which sounds i know a lot of people strike a score so my my feeling with it is i'm kind of a little bit in the wait and see area with the Ocaraz because two things well another two things first of all he seems really popular with the players and the players don't really seem to have an issue with him they whenever they you know it seems fine right and also I think that he does occupy quite an interesting space sometimes when he's on the pitch what I'm really interested in seeing is what what happens when like further into the season when Arsenal are maybe chasing a game or struggling to break a team down and there's 20 minutes to go and then he whether he comes on or not and if he does come on what happens because I think some of his best performances last season came as substitute appearances when he was going against tired defenders you know I think he could kind of move them around a bit more and I think it's physically a bit of a battle to have someone like that coming on when you've already been on the pitch for and getting run around by Kai Havertz for an hour or so but you're right I think I'm I'm I'm I'm I think the discourse and the amount of that it's being talked about is probably a bigger issue externally than the issue feels within the squad I'm guessing but that doesn't mean it's not an issue um i i think kai habits is such a unique forward that finally i think a lot of people on kind of mainstream poetry are starting to to get that it does create a bit of a problem but then at the same time then what i would want from victor yokarez is that example you brought up in the epswich game is perfect i want him to do the thing that we're always talking about kai not doing and be sliding in in the six yard box for a tap-in just get the tap-ins actually if that's the kind of you have to offer you have to prove to the squad and to the manager that you can offer something different because you're not going to be Kai Havertz and that's also fine but you have to be able to deliver consistently an alternative option and and that that that to me is it's like we were saying before about like being able to rely on like marley salmon going and playing at center back we have to be able to be like all right look victor yokarez is playing so actually we're going to play this way for this part of the game and i think at the moment the problem i have with it and the concern i have is that i'm just not sure what that is because i don't know but then again i don't know if he's actually fulfilling a role that michael eteta is happy with i'm assuming probably not because he's not featured a lot this season and so i mean that question of style though isn't it like okay well again devil's advocate kind of thing we don't play to his strengths or he doesn't get the service and i've seen people you know suggest it's an issue for martin odegaard or it's an issue for bakaya saka or it's an issue for nani maduweke and that feels like a stretch to me right yeah but the idea that right we don't play to his strengths we should then modify our game for this one player seems counterintuitive to me as well, right?

1:00:02It could just be that for all the quality he has in front of goal and he can certainly finish and we saw it sporting, he's got the ability to fucking smash the ball into the back of the net over and over and over again. Fundamentally, the issue is that this is a player whose style is so distinct from the way we play. It is square peg round hole. It's toothpaste and orange juice. It's that kind of a situation, but it is still one that we have to try and make the best of. You know, it's like, I think the player can do more.

1:00:41Ryan Hunn: Yeah, I agree. But I also think... Sorry to claim, but it's not Mikel, sorry, it's not Martin Odegaard's or Bakari Sakas. It's not because of them. The amount of times if you see him get the ball kind of on the edge of the box, for example, and he used like you say he used to smash them in for sporting now i know defenses is different in portugal as well and stuff like that but even just it doesn't seem like those opportunities are really happening and that's the more concerning thing i'm fine with him missing chances actually as long as he's having chances or getting in positions to to have chances and he's such a good shooter you know in terms of like power and stuff like that as well that i'm also fine if he's not getting on the end of crosses that are going through the six yard box if he's trying stuff from you know the d on the edge of the box or something like that do you think there's a psychological element you know confidence is a a difficult thing he's also was the main man at sporting and he's not the main man here at arsehole i mean he came in last season with a lot of fanfare and there was the presentation and the story about how there was you know no more shirts or he'd sold the most amount of shirts you know and all that kind of stuff that hype gives you that sort of main striker mentality.

1:01:56Whereas the way the manager is picking the team is telling him a different story. The way the club publicly pursued someone like Julian Alvarez in the summer, I think we all know what the knock-on effect of that would probably have been. You know, he doesn't look particularly happy. He doesn't look particularly confident. Is it the player's job to show the strength of character at a big club to sort of turn it around and say, i'm going to show you is it the manager's job to say i've got an unhappy player here you know i've got to work with him and get the best out of him because you know a happy player is a productive player and all that kind of stuff um or is it something in between or i think it's a bit of both right yeah i think they're i don't really have the answer about how to or like i don't

1:02:45Ryan Hunn: really know how you get the best out of him or what the process is i would also just say that like you just there's so much that we don't know and i know that that sounds like you know you're giving too much of a benefit of the doubt or being too sympathetic to but like there is a lot that's going on that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about like like for example the amount of times that it's come out that actually a player who has been in poor form has been nursing an injury for however long and they're just being managed you know what i mean and so i again like I think I'm just, I'm a little, I'm concerned.

1:03:19Ryan Hunn: Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm super worried quite yet because I do think that it's so often like people who are out of it, like as a way of Villa last season is a prime example, do you know what I mean? Compared to like what then happened for the rest of the season when he did come back in and he was actually played a really, really important role. And all of a sudden it was all fine again, you know? And I I think that there are ebbs and flows in the season and there is probably going to be a run of games this season where he has to play.

1:03:59Ryan Hunn: If after a bigger sample size, we're kind of still asking the same questions, then we've got a real problem. Yeah, for sure. A goal this weekend, before we go into this sort of extended interlull, would be very useful against the former club, of course, Brighton. a tricky game given the form that they're in they're playing pretty well this season and scoring plenty of goals hilariously against Manchester United in the Carabao Cup the other night which is very funny they've won five of their last six at Old Trafford Brighton that's crazy isn't it we'd like I remember when we won there it was like 1-0 and it was like this is only Arsenal's second win in 20 years at Old Trafford it's like what the fuck how have they done that that is there have been more iPhones then ask the wins.

1:04:48Just finally, before we go in, we sort of referenced the injuries. The extended interlull is, you know, the combination of two international breaks being put together, which is probably common sense. I saw a nice story. I don't know how true it is. I just saw it tweeted on social media. Somebody saying that Jurgen Klopp has named two squads. So Kai Havertz will go away and he'll play for one week and then, you know, a couple of games and then there'll be a different team, which is good, like sensible stuff from Jurgen Klopp. But in terms of the injuries that we have with White, Timber, Incapier, Mosquera, the fact that it's a three-week break, three-and-a-half-week break, could be quite useful in terms of getting some of those players back.

1:05:32And we don't have to ask too much of Marley Salmon.

1:05:35Ryan Hunn: Yeah, no, I think it's come at quite a good time, actually. I think that as obviously as much as we want to win on the weekend I think that even if Arsenal don't win on the weekend the combined points total that you would have taken from those first run of Premier League games is kind of pretty good really a win would be unbelievable and you know maintaining a perfect start to a season that has been low-key quite difficult in terms of the fixtures that we've had. For sure. And so if they can then get those players back through the international break, I'm intrigued to see what happens with Timber.

1:06:20Ryan Hunn: I haven't, I admittedly, I haven't actually seen the Dutch squad. So is he, has he been called up, do you know? No, I don't think so. I suspect that's probably a good thing then because he gets a nice run of training, probably some, I imagine there will be like a behind closed doors friendly or something like that, or an inter-squad friendly or whatever. Yeah, it was a little... Spider senses were a little bit tingling when it comes to his absence the other night. You know, I know I only came back and played 45 minutes, so it could be just an abundance of caution, and I hope that's what it is.

1:06:52Yeah, I've been thrown into that Sunderland game as well,

1:06:54Ryan Hunn: which just like, no one wants that. No. And, yeah, good time, hopefully, to get people back because you know there were a few eyebrows raised when i also went after more defenders in the summer and i think you can see why but it would just be really good i heard you and james talk about this the other day about how it would just it would just be great if there was a run of games that that timber and ben white oh please you know it would just be so good please i know arsenal fans are annoying but universe come on give us a fucking break here i know not all of us um but yeah good time for the international break yeah i think and i think it's good that it's just one i mean the schedule we were chatting about it before we recorded right but the schedule is so all over the place and wild off the back of a world cup as well they're trying to kind of condense it and i think take the take as many international breaks away as they can also just if you looked at the fixtures this week it was the first week first week since the seasons began where i was a bit like i don't really know where i'm at like i actually forgot that arsenal were playing on tuesday and i woke up on tuesday and i was oh god there's a game tonight yeah yeah but then at the same time there's a full round of la liga games and there's a uh you know there's europa league and there's if other efl cup stuff it's just a bit like yeah so yeah if it allows Arsenal from an Arsenal point of view I think it's really good especially if they can get a result against Brighton that is an unbelievable start to the season and a nice little point to just like stop recharge maybe like get some players back fully fit work on some other things and just I mean it's a it's a stronger position than I would have expected going into the season especially off the back of a World Cup Alright well look let's hope we can do that take those three points against Brighton we better leave it there Ryan it's ever a pleasure to talk to you and we'll catch up soon You too man take care

1:08:51This ad is sponsored by ZocDoc. Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start. I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people. I've been there, which is why I use ZocDoc. Now, as a busy podcaster parent and someone who's always juggling a million things, I love anything that makes life easier. and ZocDoc lets you search and compare local in-network doctors with over 250 ,000 providers across more than 200 specialties.

1:09:24You can read reviews from real patients, find a provider who feels like the right fit, see actual appointment openings, and book instantly. I recently had a last-minute health issue pop up and needed to see someone fast. Instead of calling around or sitting on hold, I found a doctor on ZocDoc and booked an appointment in just a few minutes. It made the whole process so much less stressful. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today. That's ZocDoc, Z-O-C-D-O-C, and book that appointment on your to-do list. Stop wasting your nights on a mattress that doesn't get you. Experience the most comfortable mattress in the world, the Sleep Number Smart Bed.

1:10:05At the touch of a button, you can personalize your comfort. Choose firmer or softer. adjust cooler to warmer and right now save up to$2 ,500 during our massive labor day event hurry into your local sleep number store today because we have your number we ask podcast fans where they take the most notice of a brand the lowest scoring answer is repetition inside a single show but move that identical message across audio and video podcasts across podcasts and social media clips or having several creators talk about it and your campaign will get a 10 point increase in brand recall that's just one finding in the latest podcast pulse 2026 report from a cast download it for free at a cast.com slash pulse thank you very much indeed to ryan you can find him on blue sky he is at ryan hun.bsky.social at ryan hun.bsky.social and of course he's the co-host of the Stadio podcast, along with Musa Okwango, which you can get wherever you get your podcast.

1:11:10They're also on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash Stadio. So there was plenty to talk about in the wake of that game against Ipswich on Tuesday night. The good, the bad, the indifferent, and everything in between, I guess. That is football. That's the way it goes, and we've got a journey on our hands, don't we, between now and next May, and we'll see where it takes us. Hopefully there's a lot more good than bad, unless of course you're talking about Tottenham being bad, but for us that's good. The indifferent, I guess everybody else, if they're all completely indifferent this season, that'll suit us just fine.

1:11:46Anyway, we have one more game before we go into the interlou, the extended international break. We take on Brighton on Saturday, an interesting game. They have been playing well. They've got some good results under their belt. They're scoring a lot of goals and typically it is a tricky game away from home as well yet another game away from home this season the start to this campaign has been really really tricky i think for arsenal so hopefully we can continue the way we have been and come through this next challenge it'll mean we go into this international break with another three points under our belt and a sense of calm hopefully because there is nothing worse than a bad result before you go into an interlull because that's the only thing you're talking about and the only thing you're thinking about, at least for the first few days.

1:12:34So we will talk about the Brighton game in much more detail over on Patreon tomorrow. As ever, we will have our Premier League preview podcast available for you in the afternoon. If you'd like to join us to get instant access to everything that we do on Patreon, it is patreon.com forward slash arseblog, just$6 a month plus VAT or sales tax, if that is applicable where you live, patreon.com forward slash arseblog. Come join us. I'm not, it's not like a cult. I promise. It's just a nice thing and you get extra stuff. We don't have a compound or anything like that. I think I could be unselling this to people now.

1:13:12I should shut up. You can join myself and James on Monday for an Arsecast Extra, hopefully a goodly morning again. For now though, folks, we really do appreciate you being here. Thank you for listening as always, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:13:52Thank you.

1:14:41Hello, I'm a tiny little ex-footballer. And I'm head of ProRef, Howard Egg. Howard, we're going to look at the game at Old Trafford and many people are asking why that goal stood Well the answer, tiny little ex-footballer is that the two VAR officials spent so much time trying to decide whether or not the striker was offside they missed the fact that Godzilla was right in the middle of the goal and was clearly interfering with play That is very hard for people to understand Why don't we just play the audio and listen to how it all went down? Onfield decision is offside. Looks like Highlander is in offside position there.

1:15:29Check. Check it now. Is that where the ball was kicked? That's right. Ball was kicked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kick, kick, kick, kick. Kick, kick, kick. Yeah, kick, kick. Give it kick. Yeah, rewind. Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. OK. Clear on where the ball was kicked. That's where the ball was kicked. Happy with where the ball was kicked? I'm happy where the ball was kicked, yeah, yeah. I'm also happy with where the ball was kicked. Looks like onside. Just let me have a look at where it was kicked. Again, kick, kick. Confirm, ball was kicked with his foot. All right, just to rewind very slightly, do you see a gigantic prehistoric creature in the middle of penalty area?

1:16:11Confirmed, no giant prehistoric creature in the middle of a goal. No indication of Dinosaur interfering with play. Confirming, no Jurassic interference. Dinosaur, who is not there, does not kick the ball. Does not kick. No kick from Dinosaur. Michael, you're going to have to reverse your decision here. The goal is good. It seems pretty clear-cut, Howard Egg. how do you explain it to people watching at home? What I'll do, tiny little ex-footballer, is just use a load of nice-sounding platitudes without saying very much at all because, frankly, I don't give a shit and they can all stick it up their arses because my job is safe no matter how bad the people I'm responsible for perform.

1:17:02A bit like being a politician then, Howard. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

1:17:12Most media plans treat frequency as a risk, something to cap. But in podcasting, that costs performance. Hearing a brand advertise repeatedly makes 50 % of fans more likely to remember it against 17 % who say less likely. And that positive impact is true against every outcome we tested. Podcasting is where repetition builds, not where it wears out. Get more insights like this from ACAST's latest podcast Pulse report, which is out now. Download for free at acast.com slash pulse.