Episode 896: Mikel's big extension

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1:44Kaya Kaynak: hello and welcome to a brand new arse blog arse cast right here on arseblog.com how are you hope Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Well, the first interlull is done and dusted. It's over. All the games have been played. Some of the Arsenal boys have done pretty well and had an encouraging international break. A couple of others give us a bit of an injury scare, but we'll find out a bit more about those tomorrow, I think, when Mikel Arteta takes his pre-Leeds press conference, because that's who we face on Saturday when the real football begins again. It's Arsenal versus Leeds.

2:23Kaya Kaynak: It feels like a long time coming, not least because we had to sit and dwell on that 3-0 defeat to Brighton in our last game before the break. So hopefully we get ourselves back up and running ASAP starting on Saturday. But of course, there's a big story going into this weekend's game and it's not about Manchester City being industrial scale cheats. it is that Mikel Arteta has signed a new contract with the club. So that's really, really positive news. We're obviously going to talk about that. We'll talk about some of the players who did well on international duty and whether or not they're going to press for a starting place on Saturday when we play Leeds.

3:05Kaya Kaynak: There's some discussion of contracts with talk of Declan Rice on the verge of signing a new deal and lots more besides. So why don't we just crack on with today's show and with me to talk about all those things and more is Kaya Kainak. Good morning, Kaya. Morning, Andrew. How are you? I'm very well. How has the Interlal treated you? It's been okay, to be fair. I've managed to detach from football. I haven't watched that many England games. I went away on holiday for a little bit. Lucky you. Yeah, it was nice. It's got a little bit of... I feel like you call it winter sun, but it's been so hot around here recently that it's basically the same in Italy as it is in the UK.

3:39But yeah, it was nice. And then, yeah, just pining for Arsenal's comeback, which thankfully isn't too long away.

3:45Kaya Kaynak: No, you're ready. You're ready for it? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, obviously, all the city stuff has kept things very busy. Yes. So that little thing has given us something to talk about. But it's been a while without Arsenal, a bit too long. It does. Yeah, it's been a strange one because this international break has been extended as a way of making sure there's not three international breaks. There's only two. The next interlal, I think, is a two-weeker. But this three-week one, players have played four games. And we'll talk about some of the players who were in action for their countries and who actually did quite well for their countries over the course of this break and what that might mean for Arsenal.

4:24Kaya Kaynak: But I guess there's only one place to start this morning, and that's the news released yesterday that we were expecting. It's not a bolt from the blue by any means, but Mikel Arteta has signed a new contract with the club, keeping him at Arsenal all going well, of course, until 2030. we can get into the nuts and bolts of it now in a minute but the bottom line I guess is this is just really good news for Arsenal, for the club, for the fans and I guess as well for Mikel Arteta Definitely, I think managerial contracts are always a bit strange because they're very different from player contracts in the sense that Declan Rice is someone who's in the media right now with his names doing the rounds because of the contract talks and you hope that gets done because if he runs out of contract then obviously he'll be off very soon Whereas if another club wants Mikel Arteta, they'll probably come in and pay the release clause.

5:15And it's less of a thing. But that said, you still want to be able to have who I think is one of the best managers in the world tied down. And he's been here for seven years. I mean, when I did that maths this morning, it was quite worrying. Sort of think about, which makes me think that COVID and all that stuff was six years ago, which in itself is quite worrying. I know. Absolutely flying by. But I don't know about you and how you maybe felt with Arsene Wenger. but for me, because I was growing up when Arsene Menga was around, it was kind of the case that he'd always just been there. He was the guy who was Arsenal and for Arteta it feels like it's gone by so much quicker.

5:49I wonder if there's a younger generation of fans who now, Arteta's been here for so long, don't know anything different from Mikel Arteta which is a strange thing to think really but he deserves it. He's got Arsenal from where we were just before COVID, eighth place finishes back to back to winning leagues, challenging for Champions Leagues and yeah, I think we're all excited for what's to come.

6:08Kaya Kaynak: It's worth maybe reflecting on, as you said, the seven years that he's been in charge, more or less, coming up on seven years in December. And reflecting on where Arsenal were, how Arsenal had got there. And I think when you reference Arsene Wenger, we talk about him as a throwback in a way because he's a sort of old school legacy manager. You know, the managers and head coaches come and go with a frequency in football that is hard to keep track of. Whereas Arsenal generally have been more inclined to give managers time. That has been the way that the club has operated. Nevertheless, when we got to the end of the Arsene Wenger tenure, there was an appointment made.

6:51Kaya Kaynak: And I think you sort of have to look at the bigger picture, right? At that time, there was a lot of disquiet and unhappiness, let's say, with the ownership. because it felt like they were distant. It felt like they were hands-off. And I think those fears or concerns or worries or criticisms were quite justified, right? Because we had a situation, let's say, where Ivan Gazidis said, I'm going to leave. Here's Raul Signehi. He's good. Give him the job. And they kind of went, okay. And Raul Signehi came in and he said, here's Unai Emery. he's good give him the job and they kind of went okay and it sort of was a not a dereliction of Judy in a way but I don't think the processes were right at the football club at board level at ownership level at executive level to make the kind of big decisions that you need to make if you are gonna be a a competitive team if you're gonna be a big club right we don't need to get into the nuts and bolts of how all of that happened and we don't need to relitigate the decision making or the lack of decision making but Arsenal weren't doing things right I think it's fair to say I think that was borne out by how maybe the end of the Arsene Wenger era played out and certainly how things went under Unai Emery how febrile everything got because really they didn't do things the right way they didn't pick the right man they didn't do things in the in the way that you expect a multi-million, hundred million pound organization to do things.

8:27Kaya Kaynak: It's like, oh, well, he thinks he's good. We'll give him the job. What's the worst that can happen? So we were in like a really sticky situation, a really tricky spot when Arsenal decided, and this is where we can flip it around a little bit and talk about maybe where credit is due. Arsenal took a huge risk. Maybe there's an element of like, okay, well, how bad can it get? We're in the doldrums. Maybe this is the time where you can take a risk, make a brave choice. And Mikel Arteta was certainly a brave choice in 2019. Yeah, yeah. It's weird, almost traumatic thinking about those times. I've wiped them from my memory, but they're all coming back to me now, which is fun.

9:10But I think that's okay. I think at that time, it kind of felt like there was a real satisfaction with just finishing in the top four, especially when Arsenal dropped out of it the initial thought process particularly seemed like from the ownership down was not how can we get Arsenal back to challenging for titles and trophies again it was how can Arsenal get into the Champions League again and the cash cow that was the Champions League and for years as Arsenal fans it felt like when it came to the league all we ever spoke about was Champions League qualifications we didn't even talk about winning Premier Leagues and to me it's always felt like Unai Emery was a short-term appointment to get Arsenal back into of the Champions League and that mindset, like you say, of just not maybe doing things properly and just trying to look for short-term solutions to problems that were long-term and massively endemic within the club and took a real sort of root and branch review and transformation.

10:03And that's where I think there is credit to be given in appointing Michael Arteta because, like you say, it was a huge risk. He was very young at the time. He never even had any real managerial experience. I know he'd worked under Pep Guardiola, but it was one of those that kind of felt right weirdly. And obviously he was in the frame for the job after Wenger left and maybe the timing of that all worked out quite well. But I think I'm always hesitant to give too much credit on that front because it kind of feels like you could never have known Mikel Arteta was going to become the guy he became.

10:36And we've all seen Mikel Arteta in press conferences and heard players talking about him and how convincing he can be. I'm more inclined to give the credit to him in terms of convincing them on the project.

10:46Kaya Kaynak: That's kind of where I was going to go with my next question, because in 2019, if you thought, which I did at the time, I was sort of behind the Arteta appointment. I was behind the Arteta appointment before they appointed Unai Emery. I remember we did a live Arscast Extra. We were doing it from upstairs in Union Chapel. There was myself and James. There was Amy Lawrence, Filippo Clare. we spent the first 45 minutes talking about Mikel Arteta being appointed as manager because that was what people were thinking. We all thought that's what was going to happen based on the information that we had.

11:22Kaya Kaynak: We got a halftime Ornbaum, which kind of blew that entire discussion out of the water, which was that Unai Emery was being appointed as manager of Arsenal or head coach of Arsenal. But I think, you know, even if you were somebody back then in 2019 who went, I don't know about this. Maybe Arsenal need to default to experience. You know, things are tricky. The club is in a weird situation. There is a need to change a lot on the pitch and off the pitch. Is a 37-year-old with no managerial experience the man to do that? I think it would be perfectly normal to have those concerns and reservations about making that appointment.

12:03Kaya Kaynak: But when we sit here in 2026, it's really easy, I think, to look at or maybe look back and envisage a meeting, right, where it was, I think Vinay was there, Raul was there at the time as well, Edu was involved, and I'm sure the ownership, the Cronkies were there too. I can easily envisage a scenario where they're all sitting around a table or a sofa or whatever. And Mikel Arteta is just laying out precisely what he thinks, what he wants to do, and what, if they give him the backing and they give him the resources to do it, what he is going to do with the football club. It's really simple, isn't it?

12:48Kaya Kaynak: Because he's a very, very convincing talker. He speaks with real clarity. it's not difficult to understand what it is that he is saying. I think that the clarity of his messaging since the moment he arrived in the job has been one of the cornerstones of his tenure as manager, both for players and for fans, you know, because he has to convince the players this is what we need to do. He has to convince the fans this is what I want to do and this is what I'm capable of doing. And I think everything he has done has been sort of built on that foundation where he came in in his first press conference and said, we need to change the culture of this organization on the pitch and off the pitch.

13:34Kaya Kaynak: It's not good enough. It's my job to do that. I have to convince the players that they have to act in a certain way. And we have to get the fans back onside, which after a, you know, a contentious period, let's say, was a bigger challenge maybe than some people thought. Yeah, a big, big time. I think Mikel Arteta is probably his biggest strength has always been his communication. For much as we talk about tactical stuff and innovations and all that kind of thing. And I think people maybe from the outside, when we look at football management, we must think that every single day they're doing tactics.

14:11And in the team talk before the game, they're talking about these minute things that none of us sort of laymen could ever possibly notice on the pitch. But the reality is that that's not the case. A lot of, I think there's a Julian Nagelsmann quote that football management is almost like 80 % social competence and 20 % tactics. I'm sure I've got the ratios wrong. But I think that's such a big part of it. And when Mikel Arteta was coming in, a lot of people compare him to Klopp and Guardiola. When Guardiola started his managerial career, he was already a Barcelona legend. And he was already a real figure within the club who was a reference point who people looked at.

14:49Arteta was the Arsenal captain, but it wasn't really the same. I think if you hadn't been following Arsenal sort of in the mid to early 2010s, you could possibly have missed his legacy at Arsenal. And if you're not someone who's familiar with the club, I can understand how that would have happened as a player. Similarly with Jurgen Klopp, when he came to Liverpool, he had trophies at Dortmund to back him up. So when he was saying to the players, look, if you run through brick walls for me, here's what we can do. He could say, well, look, I've already done it. Arteta didn't have any of that. And that's what makes his achievements at Arsenal, for me, so much more impressive.

15:24That he started from nothing and learned on the job and learned on a really, really hard job in a big, big club. and like you say Arsenal was a bit of a mess back in 2019 and then Covid came along and it meant he couldn't sign any players and it meant that obviously he could sign some but it meant that he couldn't sign the players he probably would have wanted and suddenly he's trying to make these big sweeping changes with his hands tied behind his back and all those things you mentioned about getting the fans back on side suddenly you can't do them and all that kind of stuff and the football suffers and there's lots of difficulties that he has to overcome and he has to kind of keep the the light burning and not let it go out throughout the whole time and convince people that look if you if you stick with me I will I will get you to where we all want to go and we spoke earlier about how rare it is to see managers given that kind of time nowadays so I was doing a working on a script for TIFO this morning in which I saw that Michael Carrick is the 10th longest serving manager in the Premier League and he was appointed in January and that's the kind of world in which we live right now where everything is changing all the time managerially managers don't get given any time but Mikel Arteta I don't think that I think credit is due that Arsenal gave him the time but I also think he was able to convince us all and the way he spoke in press conferences the way he communicated to the players we saw from those all or nothing documentaries of how he maintained standards the difficult decisions he was able to make and has continued to make throughout his career I think he deserves a lot a lot of credit and I think it's even more impressive like I said when you consider where he was starting from compared to those who he was up

16:59Kaya Kaynak: against no absolutely absolutely and I you know there are other clubs I think who probably might have jettisoned Mikel Arteta during a difficult period there was that really difficult period you know post FA Cup win that second season uh not his full season but his first full season basically things were bad there's no sugarcoating it we were hovering above the relegation zone for a while we couldn't win a game to save our lives. But I also think, you know, this is where probably the clarity of Arteta's communication bought him. I don't know if it bought him time from the club, but it certainly convinced the club that regardless of this, he was the right man.

17:39Kaya Kaynak: But also, you know, you mentioned it in passing. I think we have to recognize that you're a young manager, you get your first job, you get it in December, in March, there is a deadly worldwide pandemic. you know and the impact of that not just on football but the world itself is it's hard to sort of remember how crazy and surreal and how much it affected every aspect of our lives you know what I mean so dealing with that along with all the other stuff that you have to deal with and and listen being able to say I see a vision for this football club I want to take us here. If you get on the train, if you get on the boat, all these travel metaphors that he has made, you know, I think he's probably used them all, boats, trains, planes, trains, and automobiles, the whole lot, right?

18:33Kaya Kaynak: You can say that and you can say that convincingly and you can say that with clarity, but at the same time, you have to deliver in the short term as a football manager. That is the challenge. Your medium to long-term vision can be impeccable, but if you don't get results, you're going to lose people along the way. You're going to lose fans. People will lose faith in you. And I think, you know, over the course of his tenure, certainly there were, you know, you've seen it. I've seen it. People listening to this will have seen it, that people wanted Mikel Arteta to go at various stages, you know, three second places.

19:03Kaya Kaynak: That's not good enough. He's got to go, you know, the demands and the pressures on any football manager, not just Mikel Arteta are incredible. So to sort of deal with all of those things and to change the trajectory and to increase the competitiveness of the club, because I can remember, and I'm sure you can remember as well, when we beat Liverpool at the end of the COVID season, they'd won the title. We beat them 2-0. Alisson made a huge mistake, I remember, for one of the goals. Maybe he made a mistake for both of the goals. I can't remember. It was Lacazette. I think it was Rhys Nelson who scored the other game.

19:44Kaya Kaynak: It was Rhys Nelson, yeah. You know, so that'll tell you where we were, right? So we won that game, I think, 2-1 at the Emirates. And afterwards, Mikel Arteta, he wasn't happy with the win. It's not that he wasn't happy with the win, but he basically just said, we have got so far to go to catch up with Liverpool and to catch up, obviously, with Manchester City, who, you know, were the two dominant teams. And it felt like we were light years away from them. So to deal with all of those things as a rookie manager, difficult players, difficult agents, difficult situations, difficult decisions, unpopular decisions as well.

20:20Kaya Kaynak: He was not afraid to make unpopular decisions along the way, which ultimately he felt would benefit the club and benefit the team as a whole. And I think, you know, with hindsight, with the value of time, we can see that those decisions, you know, were correct and were borne out regardless of how, you know, people might have thought about their favorite player or this player or whatever. Like, it's an incredible amount of shit to deal with while under the spotlight of the media, of the fans, the online world in which we live. Like, it's kind of remarkable. yeah yeah and and so I was just starting at Football London in my old job as the COVID season began the full COVID season so I was at the games behind closed doors where it was eerie and quiet and you could hear players shouting at each other on the pitch and you could hear Rob Holding swearing quite creatively Adamatre Rore and there were so many memories like that and it was an insight but But it was also stale and Arsenal were really bad that season.

21:24And I kind of have a theory that maybe if fans had been in the stadium, would Mikel Arteta have survived that time where the performances were so bad? And I remember the first game back, there was a little period where fans were allowed back in around December in that season. And I think Arsenal lost to Burnley and they lost to Wolves. and I remember a clip of, I think it was in the Burnley game, some Arsenal fan had pulled his face mask from his mouth up to his eyes because he didn't want to watch it. That's the kind of stuff that we were dealing with at the time. And I wonder if fans had been in, would he have been able to survive that kind of stuff?

22:02I do wonder. But you know what? Sometimes things are meant to be and maybe if he'd started earlier when Unai Emery was supposed to be appointed, was appointed, things wouldn't have worked out the same way. He certainly made mistakes. Yeah, of course. His first two signings were Pablo Marie and Cedric. Like we remember.

22:16Kaya Kaynak: I think we need to, listen, I'm not going to try and play it down because, you know, I think we're at a point where clearly Mikel Arteta's influence over transfers is unquestionable, right? But I think back then, when you look at the provenance of those players and where they came from and where the agents were involved, there was less Arteta and more people above him in the pecking order at that point. Yeah, yeah. And I was gonna say that I think the way he wrestled control from those kind of, how to describe it, the things going on at the club. I think that is one of his biggest success stories, because I don't think there's too many managers out there that could have done it or to be honest, would have been bothered to do it.

23:01I think a lot of managers would have just been able to get on with it. And you mentioned that Liverpool game prior to that, there had been the FA Cup semi final win against Man City. And just after there was the FA Cup final win against Chelsea. And I think a lot of managers might have chosen that as a time to let's ride the positive vibes. Let's keep things happy. Let's keep things good. Let's not rock the boat too much. Things are going well. And I think Arteta was proactive in his wanting to drive the club forward. And to be honest, I think that's continued now. And that's got us to the point now where we've gone from three second place finishes to first and he's still not satisfied.

23:36And he's still talking about the interview he did with the fans for the club media. I'm sure you've seen it. He took the moment to ask fans, what can we do better? This is a team who have just won the league and the manager who's just won the Premier League for the first time in 22 years. So that's his mindset. And I think that's a really positive mindset. And it's got Arsenal from where they were, where people were literally covering their eyes not to see them to now where, you know, people are fighting each other to get tickets to see them. It's a big, big transition and he deserves so much credit for it.

24:07Kaya Kaynak: Some people might look at this contract extension as like a reward. And clearly he's earned it, right? We've laid that out. I think he's earned it. I've seen reports of salaries. I genuinely could not give a fuck about the salary because I think Arsenal, if you look at the market out there for managers, Arsenal could pay twice as much and not get anyone half as good as Mikel Arteta. So the money he earns, good luck to him. I really do think we're getting value for whatever it is that we're paying Mikel Arteta because of the impact that he has and because of how good he is and what he's done for this team.

24:45Kaya Kaynak: I also think that we are discussing a very ambitious and driven man who isn't committing his future to Arsenal Football Club to rest on his laurels in any way. I think the Premier League and winning the Premier League again after so many years was like a white whale for Arsenal Football Club, right? And he chased that and he chased that and we did it and we did it last season and it was brilliant and wonderful. But I don't think you can separate his commitment to the next three and a half years, a little more than that, from him wanting to absolutely cement his legacy and not just people saying he did a great job, the club was in share, he won us the title and then we were, you know, we were there, thereabouts, it was good.

25:36Kaya Kaynak: But I think he wants silverware. He wants trophies. He wants Mikel Arteta with two, three Premier Leagues after his name. Maybe more. Who knows? He wants a Champions League. If the Premier League was the white whale, this is an even wider whale because, you know, we haven't done it. We have that pain of not doing it under Arteta as well. And if we know anything about him, it's that when something hurts him, he is absolutely determined to put it right. I'll give you a weird analogy. My dog, when she was a puppy, Lana, she was up the mountains and she sort of ran through some heathers and there was like a ground nest of bees and wasps and she got stung, badly stung all over.

26:22Kaya Kaynak: Ever since then, she has declared the war on wasps. Anything that comes near her, if you're a wasp, she's going to bite you out of the air and potentially eat you. And I'm not saying Michel Arteta is a German shepherd who has been stung by a load of wasps. He does like dogs. But he has been stung. And every time he is stung, he hits back. And I really, really think that the next three years could be super exciting because of what he wants to do. Not because of what he's done in the past, but because of what he still wants to do. Yeah, and this is a man who took several of his coaching staff from Brentford, who are the bees.

26:59So he knows all about stinging in that sense. Yeah, like we said with the Liverpool game all those years ago, he's not someone who rests on his laurels. And I think he doesn't view the job as finished because like you say, they ticked off the box of winning the Premier League and the salary thing, like you, I don't care because Arsenal can afford it. And, you know, given stories that have gone on recently, that's something that maybe we should be quite happy with and quite proud of, given stuff going around the rest of Premier League and they can afford to keep expanding and they're a massive club around the world.

27:32And I did think, so when all the contract talks were happening and Arsenal had maybe a disappointing-ish summer in the sense that they didn't go out and get that star left winger. There was all the talk of Vinny Jr. And my thought process was not so much, oh, it'd be great to get Vinny Jr. because he'd be a superb left winger. Of course he would be. But it was more, are Arsenal going to be able to match the ambitions of Mikel Arteta if they don't go out and sign a player like that? And that's the kind of the draw that Arsenal are shopping in now. and Mikel Arteta will want players from that level, can Arsenal match it?

28:08That's the fear. Because I think if you look around football clubs, every single one has single points of failure. Some of Arsenal's single points of failure are on the pitch. So if David Raya gets an injury, then it's Kepa in goal. And I think we're all a bit worried, for example. But I'd say the biggest single point of failure at Arsenal Football Club is Mikel Arteta. Because like you said, there's not a dearth of top quality proven managers out there right now, especially Guardiola and Klopp are off doing their own things separately now. Beyond that, I think there's an argument that Mikel Arteta is the main guy in the Premier League.

28:41He's obviously the longest serving manager now. And I think Arsenal have to move heaven and earth to keep him and they have done. And yeah, I hope they keep backing him and I hope they keep providing him with things that will allow him to match his ambitions because he's someone who clearly has lofty ones. and I think he's taken Arsenal to a certain level. But like I said, he's not happy with it. He wants to win a Champions League. He wants to win several Premier Leagues. And I think he won't be satisfied until he's built a dynasty and he's someone who looks at lots of other sports. I know he's a fan of the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan.

29:16I know he's a fan of NBA generally and he looks at rugby, he looks at various other sports where dynasties are built regularly. It is a lot rarer in football. I think we forget that. Man City have built one recently. Let's say about that the better. but Bayern Munich are a dynasty in a different way. Barcelona are a dynasty in a different way. But in English football, it's actually very rare that you get dynasties. I think Manchester United had one. Arsenal didn't really have one under Arsene Wenger. They won leagues across a period of time, but I don't think you could call it a dynasty in the same way.

29:45Maybe people would disagree on that. But I think Mikel Arteta looks at this and thinks, right, Man City won four leagues in a row. I want to win five with Arsenal. Or, you know, Liverpool have won six Champions Leagues. I want to win seven with Arsenal. you know difficult to achieve of course but that's his mindset of I want Arsenal to be the biggest club in the world I want them to be the biggest club in football history and in English football that's really hard so yeah I'm excited that he's not satisfied at all yeah I agree and I just

30:11Kaya Kaynak: wanted to ask if you feel like by giving Mikel Arteta this contract that it is a statement from the ownership that they will back him that they will continue to back him and listen they have We have to give them credit for that. They've financially been the cornerstone of how we've built this team. You know, we've spent a lot of money on transfers. We talk all the time about how we don't necessarily sell that well, right? And there's a shortfall there. And the manager has pretty much got what he wanted in the transfer market. Not all the time. I think there have been a couple of windows where he's been left short.

30:49Kaya Kaynak: You know, you think of the one where Raheem Sterling came in at the end. that was not good that was not well managed i i do think that like the summer just gone midfield and defense fantastic did we do enough in attack no i don't think so did we do enough or did we do what michael arteta would have liked i don't think so so you can't always get everything you want but by and large he has been given what he needs by the football club and i do think that by extending his contract is not just his commitment to the club I think it is also the commitment of the club to him you know to to harness the talent and the ability that he has as one of the best managers in the game there's no point giving him a new contract and then saying well just work with what you have for the next x amount of seasons yeah yeah and going back to before the the kind of old school uh ways that things were done at Arsenal that kind of would have been it is uh arsene menga gets a contract extension he can take care of the rest and figure it out i don't think that's the case anymore i think arsenal are a team that back the manager in the transfer market as they've done several times now you look back to the declan rice deal when it happened we you know we don't really think about it now we don't really balk at the idea of an 100 million pound player but when it happened particularly for a team like arsenal that was something that we kind of didn't think was something that arsenal did that was something that a Chelsea or a City or even a United did.

32:11But Arsenal now are on that level and can play on that level because they have received backing from their ownership. And if you look at what they've done across other teams in the American sports, they have shown a willingness to provide big contracts and backing to the team there. And I see no reason to think that that won't be the case here. The difficulty is, I think Arsenal face this difficulty and all Premier League teams kind of face this difficulty, is that it seems like all the best attacking talent in the world right now wants to go to Barcelona and Real Madrid. So how do Arsenal find ways to deal with that?

32:44How do they kind of, to use a Sanehi-ism, outsmart the market? It's difficult. But I think this club and this ownership, sorry, have shown that they're willing to try and find ways to do it. They do seem to be financially sound, and Arsenal are a club that is making money and in rude financial health. So, yeah, it's exciting. And I think they will keep backing Nicolau Teta because that's what they've done to this point. Yeah, I think that's exactly what they've got to do.

33:08Kaya Kaynak: You'd be kind of foolish not to, wouldn't you? You mentioned Declan Rice. There's also talk of a new contract being imminent for him, which feels like a no-brainer. A£100 million transfer back in 2023. Is that when it was? I think it was. It was. It was. Time flies, eh? Yeah. It really does fly. But, you know, there are a couple of players, and maybe I'll ask about those in a minute, but certainly Rice, in terms of the impact he's made, in terms of the stature, in terms of the consistency, this is a contract that, you know, Arsenal really do have to tie down. Yeah, yeah. Declan Rice is one of Arsenal's totemic players.

33:52I remember a few years ago when England played Brazil in a friendly, and Arsenal, sorry, the players were swapping shirts at the end of the game and Vinicius Junior wanted Declan Rice's shirt and I'm sure vice versa. But that shows that he's the player who in this Arsenal team is kind of known around the world. And I put him up there with Bakaya Saka and several other key Arsenal players, Martin Odegaard. And those are the players who you kind of, when you're, let's say, a young player looking to decide which club you want to go to or an exciting, talented player who's thinking, you know, where should I go?

34:23And you see, oh, well, Declan Rice has decided to stay at Arsenal. Well, I think I might go there and join him then because he's got that level of pull and influence across the game. And, you know, am I right in saying he's been nominated for the Ballon d 'Or this year? That's something that is a real sort of impressive thing for him. I think he's someone, again, who kind of matches Mikel Arteta's ambition and doesn't seem to be satisfied with the one Premier League, seems to want to go more and to push himself to the point that he's had to sit out this international break and miss large chunks of the World Cup.

34:52But I think, yeah, he's someone who embodies everything Arteta wants in terms of the culture at the club, constant self-improvement. Because a bit like Mikel Arteta, when Declan Rice kind of started in his playing career, he was not someone who was thought of as this guy, oh, it's guaranteed he's going to go to the top. Martin Odegaard was a wanted kid from the age of 15. Declan Rice was not that. I think he was released by Chelsea around the same age. So he's someone who's had to fight and work for every single thing he's got and scrapped to get to the position he's in. And I think that embodies of where Mikel Arteta wants to take Arsenal.

35:24And he's also a great leader to the younger players that I think Arsenal want to blood in. And we talk about refreshing the squad and the excitement of that and backing Mikel Arteta in the transfer market. I do think if you look at the age profiles of some of this Arsenal squad, they're approaching the sort of late 20s, early 30s. And it's getting to the point now where you decide, do we stick with this guy and keep him a bit longer? Or do we start to refresh in that position? Rice, for me, like you said, is a no-brainer that you stick with him. But he'll be perfect as well to help the younger players who do come in and do refresh the squad to blood them in and to hold them to the cultural values that Mikhail Teta has spent years building.

36:01So he's key to tie down. And it's exciting that it does seem to be heading in that direction. Yeah, I mean, there are a number of players whose contracts expire in 2028.

36:11Kaya Kaynak: So Arsenal, you know, I guess between now and the summer, will probably want to have conversations with and try and tie down. Declan Rice is 27. Contract expires in 2028, although Arsenal do have an option for another year. But you can understand why they want to get it done now. I get it. You've also got Martin Odegaard. You've got Kai Havertz. You've got David Raya. And you've got Ben White. Ben White may be a little more... Well, he's got a contract till 2028, but he's 29 years of age, you know, and I think Ben White turns 30 in, could be this month, I think. I'll let you look that up while we're talking.

36:5529 until he's 30. Yeah. I'm Googling for you. It's today. No, he's 29 today, sorry. 29 today.

37:01Kaya Kaynak: 29 today. Okay. Yeah. 8th of October. Wow. Okay. Well, happy birthday. But like if he sees out his contract, let's say that happens, he's 31 years of age. that's a reasonable time to maybe part ways if it gets that far what about the others then Odegaard Havertz, Raya I mean it feels to me like there is kind of a discussion to be had about Havertz maybe a little more than Odegaard, Raya seems like get this guy signed please get that one done because I think we're talking about him in the same breath as we should talk about Declan Rice or William Salib or Gabriel or maybe Bakayosaka, you know, that's the kind of stature that he has within the squad.

37:46Kaya Kaynak: Odegaard and Havertz, both of whom have had injury issues over the last 18 months, it's not uncommon for players to have a little period in their career where they're beset by injury, where they lose form, where they don't quite look the player that we thought they were or were going to be. Is there a bit of a risk with two of them, you know, with Odegaard and with Havertz? Or what would your inclination be when it comes to both of these guys? This is a horrible question, Andrew. Well, these are the challenges that the top managers face, Kaya. So if you ever want to step into Mikel Arteta's shoes, you're going to have to, you know, man up.

38:27Kaya Kaynak: That's true. That's true. Give us what you think here. It's true. If I want the big bucks, I'm going to have to make these calls. Exactly. So like you say, David Raya, for me, is the best goalkeeper in the world right now. So I think he needs to be signed up and sign up quickly. Declan Rice, as we said, is kind of a no-brainer. Ben White is, like you say, the end of his contract is approaching and given his injury record and his age, maybe it's time to think about long-term replacements in that scenario. Kai Havertz, I think, for me, it's dependent on who's out there and what you can get in, in return.

39:03so let's say and I was happy that Arsenal didn't go all out to get Julian Alvarez in the summer because he clearly didn't want to come and all that stuff around it but let's say Arsenal had managed to sign Julian Alvarez and I think there are similarities in the way they play that number nine position in the way Alvarez kind of drops deep and links with the rest of the Arsenal team the rest of his teammates, not the Arsenal team yeah, if that's the case then maybe you start thinking is there a chance that you could start thinking about selling Kai Havertz or is there a way that you can look to move him on or is there an offer even that's out there for him as it stands with the centre forwards Arsenal have in the squad unless something changes quite severely and I don't see it changing massively to be honest either in January or maybe in the next summer window but I think you have to keep a hold of someone like Kai Havertz because of what he offers despite his injury record because there aren't as many profiles in the squad who can do what he does I I mean, the closest profile to him is Mikel Moreno, who's older and hasn't crazy amounts left on his contract either.

40:06So I would be more inclined to keep Habert's. The Erdkard one, if you'd asked me this a few months ago, it would have been a completely different answer. But the way he started the season, I almost think you can't risk it. You can't risk allowing him to leave. And as much as we talk about Arsenal needing to get better at selling and needing to be a team that brings in more money, the benefit of being a team that does generate high revenues, that does have a lot of wealth behind them and is so big, is you kind of don't have to make these decisions as much. And being at the top of the food chain means that you don't have to sell players.

40:41You maybe can afford to offer a Martin Erdegaard a contract extension at the age of 27, 28 when you're a little unsure about it. And if it doesn't work out, you can take the hit in a way that other teams probably can't. so my inclination particularly with the way the squad is as it stands would be to extend both of those two i know there'll be a lot of people who'll be saying i don't deserve the big bucks that michael arteta makes as a result of that but yeah that's my inclination is to there's still two key parts of the squad and if you get rid of them you have to think about how much it would cost to replace them what is out there in terms of proven quality what can give you what you lose by letting them go i don't see huge amounts out there right now that can offer it.

41:24But maybe if that was brought in, things would change. But yeah, I'd probably be erring on the side of extending the both of them. Okay.

41:31Kaya Kaynak: I tend to agree with you there. Unless something kind of remarkable comes along in terms of a striker opportunity in the market, or they identify a talent up front that might make you more comfortable with letting Havertz go. But there are other players, there are other strikers, There are other people in that discussion as well. But look, we'll see what they do in terms of contract extensions for those. And those stories will play out over the course of this season. I didn't want to touch on some of the players who'd been away. And I think Odegaard, let's start there. Because the start to the season at Arsenal has been really, really good.

42:09Kaya Kaynak: The impact has been obvious. He looks fitter, sharper, better in the box. And we've seen that with the goals that he has scored. But that's where his contribution has been, goal scoring. And people think of Martin Odegaard, and I think rightly, as a creative player, somebody who's going to make assists. So was it pleasing for you that he went away with Norway? I mean, he might have played 490 minutes, which is a bit worrying, a bit too much. But I suppose it's good to know he can do it, right? Particularly after getting that nasty kick from Bernardo Silva. He didn't seem inhibited by that. He ended up with four assists for Norway.

42:46Kaya Kaynak: One of them, I think we have to acknowledge, is a technical assist, a statistical assist, because he floated a ball towards the edge of the box and then Christopher Iyer absolutely leathered it into the top corner. And I think the goal scorer probably deserves a little more credit. But nevertheless, Mark Nodgaard gets an assist for that. I suppose if you're looking for his creative juices to start flowing, though, it's been a decent international break for him. Definitely. And when you consider that Arsenal are probably going to sign Erling Haaland in January, I think it makes even more sense, right?

43:19Kaya Kaynak: Forget that guy Haver's extension there. Exactly. It's all okay now. Yeah, that is a really good sign. And I think last season it kind of felt at times like Martin Odegaard was playing within himself and he missed a lot of games due to injury. And I think him wanting to be present for Norway in the World Cup was a big part of that. He is a huge deal in Norway. He's, you know, they're equivalent to David Beckham, probably, as we know. And he, I don't think, felt that he could miss out on Norway's first World Cup since, I think, 1998. And, you know, that squad had underachieved up until that point and not qualifying for major tournaments.

43:57And now they have. And they did really well at the World Cup. And he was brilliant at the World Cup because I think we saw a player in Martin Odegaard who finally looked like he was playing with freedom and not within himself and not fearful of injuring himself. He looked like a guy who I'm here to put my best foot forward and to do proud for my country. And now he's done that and his confidence has come back as a result. We're seeing the benefits with Arsenal. And like you say, he started the season really well. A couple of his goals, the kind of goals. So obviously the City one and the Community Shield and then the Chelsea one.

44:27They're very similar kind of goals in the sense there's dummies that lead to opportunities right in front of the six yard box. But those are the kind of finishes that I don't know about you. I can't imagine Martin Odegaard even attempting last season or trying to do last season. So the fact that he's even thinking about trying to do that kind of stuff suggests that he's back in terms of confidence. And if Arsenal can keep him fit, if he can stay available, then obviously we all know how good Martin Odegaard is. And we all know what he can offer to this team. I think he felt the weight of, in the season prior, when he first got injured and Arsenal were playing, it was 24-25.

45:04and he played a lot of games after coming straight back from injury. I think he felt the weight of being the captain of Arsenal and everyone else got injured around him and he kind of played through it and carried on. And I think when he felt the weight, maybe he struggled to perform and he felt he was trying too much. Then the season after with Norway, he felt the weight of expectation of wanting to be there for that. Now it doesn't seem like the weight's on him so much. And we spoke about the white world of the Premier League for Mikel Arteta, but I wonder if a lot of players have achieved so much in these past 12 months they now think well screw it I'm just going to show my real self and be myself and be my authentic self on the football pitch and we're seeing a lot of that from Martin Odegaard and it's really exciting and things are going his way again as well like that goal against Coventry was kind of a joke that shouldn't you know and then last season that that probably wouldn't have gone in for him you mentioned that assist for Christophe Araya last season maybe Christophe Araya remembers he's a centre-back and balloons out the stadium you know sometimes when it's your moment and things start to go for you it's really exciting and if Martin Odegaard can get to that level we're talking about a player who in my opinion at his best is Kevin De Bruyne levels so if Arsenal can add that to a team that already won the league sure then you know we're doing pretty

46:09Kaya Kaynak: well fingers crossed he can continue uh the good form as the uh the real football begins again an interesting international break for Victor Jokeres as well who went away I think a bit unhappy because he hadn't really been playing much in the Premier League didn't get too many minutes had a sort of indifferent game in the Carabao Cup against Ipswich and a lot of focus on him after, you know, there's always focus on him, right? For all kinds of reasons. But if you're looking for a guy to go and make the most of an international break, scoring four games in a row for Sweden is absolutely doing that.

46:50Kaya Kaynak: There was an injury to Havertz over the international break. He came back. my understanding is it's not too serious but we don't quite know yet what the lay of the land is there and we'll hear from Mikel Arteta tomorrow at his press conference whether Havertz is in contention for the game against Leeds does it feel to you that in terms of let's say managing a player the Leeds game is a really interesting opportunity for Arteta and for Victor Jokeres I remember when Mikel Moreno went away with Spain and he scored a hat-trick last season or the season before, I can't remember. All the goals he scored.

47:31Kaya Kaynak: It was against Turkey, so I remember it well. Oh, you remember. Well, sorry about that. I hope you're over it. But Mikel Arteta, when he came back, he sort of said something in his press conference about how when a player does that on international duty, you want to harness it. You want to capture the confidence that it engenders in that player and you want to play them in the next game. And I do wonder if, you know, Leeds at home, he scored twice against them last season. He scored four games in a row for Sweden. He's had a difficult start. But we need Victor Jokeres as a player because we've got a lot of football to play.

48:09Kaya Kaynak: As a manager, are you looking at this as the sort of game where you say, OK, I see what you did while you were away with your country? You've had a hard time. You haven't been too happy. To be fair to him, he said he's got to do better, right? This is the moment, right, where you say, okay, take everything that you did in that international break. You're starting against Leeds. We're at home. Do it. Show me. Like, put in the kind of performance that when I'm thinking about my team for the next game, I have to really, really think hard about whether or not I play you or I play Kai Havertz or indeed play Mikel Moreno up front because he is, with all due respect to Nicholas Bentner, now the greatest striker that ever lived.

48:52Kaya Kaynak: But seriously, though, it does feel like a moment for Jokeres where you say, come on, you need to kickstart your season. And I think as a manager, if you're trying to sort of get the most out of every player in your squad, that decision this weekend is the one that seems the most interesting to me. Yeah, I agree completely. And I think Victor Diokeres can't really argue that he hasn't had opportunities at Arsenal to establish himself in the first team. Last season, for long periods, he was the only striker. Some people might argue that that was to his detriment and it knackered him out for games.

49:28But I think there was also a chance for him to prove that he could be the same deadly future that Arsenal needed. He didn't really show that, but one of the teams he did kind of show glimpses of it against was Leeds. And four goals in two games against them last season. That's an impressive record. It's one of the, you know, with the greatest respect to Victor, one of the few teams that he does have a really good record against. And I think he is someone who we spoke about Martin Odegaard and the confidence he brought from Norway into Arsenal. If Jokeres is able to do something similar, then that would be fantastic.

49:58And I think I remember in the March international break, he went away and he scored a hat trick to help Sweden qualify for the World Cup in the playoffs. and he came back and then Arsenal had the semifinals against Atletico Madrid in the Champions League and he was brilliant in those two games. I think those were up there with his best performances in an Arsenal shirt. So yeah, if Arsenal can now offer him that, I think he's got the chance to take it. And Mikel Arteta, we're probably thinking just about the Leeds game and sort of playing checkers in a way, but Mikel Arteta has to kind of play chess and think about the game after and the game after and the game after.

50:31You have to probably assume that with Kai Havertz's recent record of coming back from injuries that he might break down. He has the contingency plan for that. And, you know, Arsenal have a run of games coming up where Vicky Okerez can probably build his confidence. And he was a lot better in the Champions League last season as well. So in an ideal world, you know, he comes in, does well against Leeds, plays again against Lille with a little bit more space and time that you get in the Champions League, scores a goal there. And then suddenly you're looking at a player who we're all talking about, wow, Vicky Okerez is back.

51:00He's finally here. Is this the moment he finally starts his Arsenal career? that's how quickly these narratives can change and I think he had a difficult start to the season he was really poor when he came on against Chelsea and he was poor against Ipswich and I don't think the criticism of him has been unfair but now he's got the opportunity to turn that around and football does generally give you that and having him in the squad the reason he's there is for these scenarios so as much as I agree with you that Mikel Marino is the greatest striker the world has ever seen I think it makes much more sense to play Nicholas Benner Victor Jokeres I love it maybe we can sign Nicholas Benner on a free and that could solve all the striking options but it makes a lot more sense to play Victor Jokeres in these games and I think he deserves it and to be honest I think it would be bordering on actually unfair to Victor Jokeres to not play him in these games these are the games he's for he deserves it give him a go what's you know what realistically hopefully what's the worst that could happen yeah well

51:56Kaya Kaynak: what's the Scandinavian for Freudian slip but no I agree with you And I really hope that if he gets the chance on Saturday, he takes it. Because for all of us, any player that does well is beneficial to Arsenal. I really hope that's the case. Before we move on, a couple of players who did get on the score sheet as well. Riccardo Calafiore scored his first goal for Italy, a set-piece goal. So hopefully that's something we can take into the next part of the season. Nicholas Jova on thin ice, having scored a set-piece goal all season. But Marino with two, Bakayo Saka with two for England as well.

52:33Kaya Kaynak: You know, the confidence boost that it gives these players to come back, having done well for their countries and demonstrate that, you know, they know where the net is, whether they're starting in midfield or on the right or wherever it might be. You know, I think the positioning of Saka's, at least one of Saka's goals, very reminiscent of two of the goals that he scored for Arsenal already this season, like in the six-yard box, more or less. That sort of poacher, predator, tapping kind of goal, a Robert Perez kind of goal. You know, Perez was capable of scoring amazing goals, but how many times was he on hand for the rebound, being in the right place at the right time?

53:10Kaya Kaynak: And if that's a level that Saka can add to his game, then all the better. I agree 100%. And you mentioned Perez, the player that came to mind for me, and I'm reticent to mention his name a bit on an Arsenal podcast, but Raheem Sterling, who used to get a lot of those kind of goals under Pep Guardiola, where you kind of arrive in the box at the back post and you tap them in and just finish them. And you were in the right place at the right time. And there was a season where he scored 30 goals. 25 of them must have been those kind of tap-ins at the back post. And if Pakai Saka can add that to his game, He's already got three goals in five games for Arsenal this season.

53:45I think some of the criticism of him leading into this international break has been kind of ridiculous and a bit unfair. And I think people are looking for him to transform a game and light it up and kind of grab the attention every time he touches the ball. I think that's an impossible standard for him to be held to. And people talk about his game having changed. So there was a clip during the rounds of a goal he scored against Wolves in the final day of the season a couple of years ago where he kind of gets the ball, cuts it straight back onto his left foot and curls the shot and it goes in.

54:16And people were saying, oh, he doesn't score those kind of goals anymore. But then if you watched England versus Spain, he had two or three shots where the ball came to him on the right-hand side, instantly decides to cut back on his left, curls it in. And I think if we picture the typical Bukayo Saka action, if you like, it's him, he's got the ball kind of on the right-hand side of just inside or just outside the penalty area. He's stood up, he's sort of tapping the ball with his left foot and he's deciding whether to take the defender on, toying with them. And I think if he can get him into those scenarios more often, fantastic.

54:46But if he can score those kind of tapping goals, even better. And I think another, we mentioned Vinicius Jr. again on this podcast, but another disappointment for me about him not coming was I would have loved to have seen the space that it would have opened up for Saka and the excitement that I would have got from that would have been big. Because I think Solis, I think, has been really good in the opening games, but I wouldn't put him in the great category just yet. and I think Eber Echeza has some things to prove on the left-hand side and Arsenal once again are kind of becoming a right-hand biased team.

55:16I know Bakayosak has drifted a lot more to the left-hand side where he's getting some opportunities there but I think there's a lot of pressure on Saka and he's held to a higher standard than other players I think and I think that's unfair. I think he's producing good numbers, he's doing what Arsenal need, he's scored a couple of winners already this season so yeah, I think he just needs to keep on doing that and once he keeps getting in those positions he starts taking those chances I think, you know, if he stays fit, you're looking at a 15, 20 goal season for him, which is, you know, exactly what we want from him.

55:45So yeah, back off the guys, basically.

55:48Kaya Kaynak: Well, yeah, listen, I think he can do more. I think he can do better. There's certainly chances this season that he should have put away. You know, there were opportunities where, you know, the Saka discussion would be completely quieted down because his goal numbers would be, you know, so good, you couldn't really argue with them. But I think the sense is he can do better and could do better. And I think he will do better. Only one player has had more shots on target in the Premier League this season than Bakayo Saka, and that's Erling Haaland. And for me, that's always been Saka's greatest power is the relentlessness of his attacking intent.

56:21Kaya Kaynak: He will have shots. He'll have lots of shots. And with lots of shots generally comes lots of goals. So I'm quite encouraged by what I've seen from him so far this season. leaving Arsenal aside. And we'll talk obviously a bit more about Leeds over on Patreon tomorrow when we preview the game. But obviously it's a big, big weekend in the Premier League, not just because football is back after a long break, but because, well, we're going to have to reckon with or deal with or get the popcorn out for Liverpool versus Manchester City on Sunday. First question, here's another tough question for you.

57:00Kaya Kaynak: What do you think Mikel Arteta's response is going to be to the inevitable question that he is asked about this situation, given his connection with that club, given his relationship with Pep Guardiola, given the maybe perception that City being where they are, having been built on foundations of 114 guilty charges of financial impropriety and beyond? And, you know, would City be where they are right now without those? You know, you can make the case very easily that no, they wouldn't be. And therefore, some of the difficulties that we've had at their hands and some of the pain that they've inflicted upon us, you know, might have been very different.

57:42Kaya Kaynak: So as an Arsenal manager, do you feel this way, that way or the other way? I'm curious as to what you think, as somebody who's a grizzled veteran of many Mikel Arteta press conferences, you know, if you were to ask him that question. and I hope it is somebody sensible who asks him the question and it's not the guy from Sky who does it via interpretive dance and a fucking rake of balloons or something like that. I hope it is a serious question because it demands a serious answer. But what do you think the response is going to be from Mikel Arteta? Knowing Arteta as I do from, like you say, those press conferences, my expectation is fully for him to straight back those questions and to, given his proximity to it and how he's reacted kind of to any question about Manchester City in the past.

58:29I expect him to be respectful. I might even expect him to say, well, look, while the appeals process is going on, I don't think it's right for me to comment. That's the kind of media trained answer. And I don't think we should be kind of too upset if that's the answer that comes from Michael Arteta. I think it's probably the sensible answer for him to give as well, because like we said, he was around at the time when all this was going on towards the end of it. but you know he was around and I highly doubt that he would have known about the the levels of stuff going on there I doubt he would have been involved in those conversations as an assistant manager because are we saying that Albert Steubenberg is involved in every big financial meeting Arsenal have no so I think it would be ridiculous to hold Arteta to the same standard in that sense but I think he'd be wise to kind of keep his nose out of it in that sense for now until everything is finalized and concrete and we know exactly what's going to happen just keep your powder dry.

59:22If I was the media officer, it's not from a journalistic perspective what I want him to do at all, but it's what I'd be advising him to do.

59:27Kaya Kaynak: Well, yeah, I'm sure the media team, the comms team and the legal team will have all sat down before tomorrow's press conference. I do think it's a fascinating one though, because, you know, he was there. He was involved. He has potentially suffered at the hands of Manchester City and the way that they've built their team, you know, even as a player, even as a player. when Manchester City were building those teams. Was there a 6-3 or a 6-3, something like that? 6-3, yeah. So as a player, he's been on the receiving end of some of their stuff as well. But it is really interesting because he is somebody who, and I think you're right, by the way, I think he'll play straight back.

1:00:09Kaya Kaynak: He'll say, which he does in every other aspect. When he's talking about other clubs, he never, ever gives any ammunition. And I do genuinely think that's probably the right thing to do in most cases, right, is just don't give them the thing to pin up on the wall. The nice kickabout with the boys, right? We don't want to provide that kind of motivation or ambition to anybody else. At the same time, though, he is somebody who has often talked about for the good of the game. You know, when he talks about referees, for example, there was a quote a couple of weeks ago where he talked about how for the game, you can't have a decision like that.

1:00:46Kaya Kaynak: It's not good for the game. I think it was the Esri Kanzer penalty at Sunderland, right? And he was able to say those things because Arsenal were on the right end of that result. And he, you know, was strident that for the good of football, we have to look at decisions like that and say, that's not good enough. So how do we then square the circle of what Manchester City did as damaging, clearly damaging to the game, not just in England, but beyond? And the need or the desire maybe not to stir the pot, the hornet's nest to keep it on our buzzy theme throughout this particular conversation? Yeah, I think for better and for worse, Mikel Arteta is a very tunnel-visioned manager.

1:01:33So as much as I agree that he's spoken about stuff to do with the wider game and what's for the good of the game, I think him talking about the good of the game there would have been the good of Arsenal's game and the good of this league season and the good of what's going on there. I think he's, you know, Arsene Wenger, when you'd ask him a question on a broader topic, he would happily opine on it and give you his genuine opinion. And that's kind of why I think he was loved by the press and particularly the broadsheet for quite a long time because he would give you answers and he would give you detailed responses.

1:02:01And you'd kind of come away from a press conference with Arsene Wenger thinking, oh, okay. You come away feeling intellectually stimulated. I don't know if Arteta really wants to do that. And I've spoken to people around him and say that his whole mantra is, I don't want to be the story. I don't want to be the reason that people are writing about Arsenal. He wants it to be on the pitch and all that kind of stuff. And he's someone who has always had this no excuses mindset of, you know, I don't want any distractions. I don't want anything that we could say. You remember when all the injuries were happening and, you know, Arsenal were forced to play a front three, Marino, Sterling and Winerian.

1:02:40And it was a tough time. And I think a lot of managers probably would have come out and said, well, listen, you know, give me a bit of credit here. We're dealing with quite a lot. Arteta wouldn't have it. And I think that allowed the team to do pretty well in the Champions League that season. and the idea that you don't look for reasons why you can't do something, but you look for reasons why you can. That's kind of his mantra. And we spoke a lot about his ambition and the stuff that's got him to the level that he is at today. I think that's crucial for it. So I just can't see him getting involved.

1:03:08And the good of the game stuff, I agree. I think he'll have those opinions internally and privately. And I think he'll be talking a lot about them with maybe his coaching staff or people at the club or friends. I'm sure his WhatsApp would be very interesting if we could see them. but I don't think that he'll say any of that to the media. I think he's, he's a, and we spoke about him being younger, a younger manager. And I think he's as a player is someone who's grown up in the social media age. He knows about how things can spread like wildfire. He knows about all that stuff, despite what he says.

1:03:37I'm pretty sure he is relatively, you know, active on, on Instagram and those kinds of social media things. I think he, he knows what's going on. So I don't think he'll, like you say, want to add any fuel to the fire. I think he'll just be thinking, let's turn the volume down let's just focus on ourselves everything else is outside noise let's not worry about that which is yeah a shame for us because I think we would all love a manager who'd be like you know well screw them you know not relegating to the conference it'd be amazing but I don't think Mikhail Arteta is that kind of guy unfortunately

1:04:07Kaya Kaynak: No I don't think so but finally then how do you see it sort of playing out over the weekend in the Premier League more broadly because it is going to be a huge question not just for Enzo Mareska and Antonio Iriola, those two managers who come head-to-head on Sunday at 4.30, we're all going to have the popcorn out. We're all going to be looking at what the cop are singing or what banners they have and all that kind of stuff. But I think more broadly in the Premier League, this isn't a top-of-the-table issue, simply a top-of-the-table issue. This is an issue that has affected every football club in the English pyramid, maybe you know because there are ripple effects that that go on um how do you see it playing out i mean is this gonna be a weekend where all the managers just say well the premier league have made their decision we have to abide by the rules let's see what the appeal does or are you expecting anybody to come out and and sort of really go to town on manchester city would be fun if they did i wonder if some of the managers who are a little bit older in the tooth is that the phrase longer in the tooth longer longer in the tooth longer in the tooth if they'll be more inclined to just speak their minds someone like a david moist for example i don't think he cares i think he might be um someone who's more inclined to just say well screw it here's what i actually think i think is a disgrace and this and this and this because he was you know manchester united manager when all this was going on as well like he was affected by it too and he was in managing an everton team who probably got quite close to european football so he was affected by it in that sense and you know he's got relegations on his CV and there's so many things that everyone's implicated in some way.

1:05:44I wonder if people like that might be more inclined to speak out. I do think, unfortunately we'll get, particularly with the number of new managers in the league, we'll get a lot of managers to stay. Well, it wasn't my time, nothing to do with me. You know, it was all back in the day, that kind of stuff. But I do think there'll be people who speak out. My fear with the stuff on the pitch is there's only so long you can boo, like physically, your lungs will only give you a certain amount of capacity to boo. And I think when, you know, When Man City comes to the Emirates, I'm sure we'll find that limit.

1:06:12But I wonder if there'll be a lot of boos for the first 10, 15, 20 minutes. But then after a while, I wonder, and I hope it doesn't, but I fear it will just die down a bit. And then teams will start to settle into the game. And I just, I don't know how long this momentum will last. This is the thing about the social media echo chambers. I wonder how angry everyone is. I'd love for them to be as angry as I am about the whole situation. because to be honest, I'm still furious. And the more I think about it and the more I think about how prices have gone up as a result of what Man City have done and how people I know can't afford to go to games anymore, how Arsenal missed out on things and Champions Leagues and trophies and all that kind of stuff because of everything they did against the rules.

1:06:54I think, you know, I get more and more angry, but I hope that the rest of the league is as angry as well. I don't know if they'll be able to sustain it for a prolonged period of time. And to be honest, I think that's Man City's strategy is just kick it into long grass enough, starve the thing of oxygen for as long as possible and hope that it goes away and hope people forget about it i hope it doesn't happen i have a fear it might because like i said there's only so long

1:07:17Kaya Kaynak: you can boo for yeah everything has a shelf life and people get a bit tired of hearing the same conversations but maybe it is incumbent on you know people like us who talk about football and are lucky enough to be able to talk about football for a living to ensure that people don't forget because a lot of it is kind of abstract in a way, you know? But I think your point about people who can't go to games, the price of tickets, and it's not just about Manchester City. I think we have to acknowledge that it's not just because of them that these things are an issue for fans, but they were certainly a very significant contributory factor to that.

1:07:51Kaya Kaynak: So I don't know. You want to get to the Emirates early tomorrow, Kaya, and just sort of, you know, get your drum, bang it outside, get the people wound up. Yeah, yeah. And obviously we can channel that into support for the team against Leeds. I've had a bit of a cold recently, but I will be chugging the LEMSIP to make sure I can be loud as possible. LEMSIP in your hot chocolate. Exactly. Listen, as ever, it is a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time, Kaio. We'll chat again soon. Likewise, mate. Thank you. Thank you.

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1:10:16Kaya Kaynak: Thank you very much indeed to Kaya. Always good to chat with him and hope you enjoyed that conversation. So we're looking ahead now. We're looking ahead to Friday when Mikel Arteta will meet the press and will be asked, I'm sure, about Manchester City and we'll see what he has to say about that. But more importantly, let's hear what he has to say about Arsenal responding to defeat in our last game and getting back to winning ways. And we'll get some injury updates in as much as he's willing to provide those to us as well. People like Christos Solis and Kai Havertz who picked up Knox Esri Konza as well.

1:10:48Kaya Kaynak: maybe maxed down and picked up knocks during the interlull. So we'll wait and see if they are available or what kind of state they're in for this weekend. As always, there will be greater focus on that particular game over on Patreon. Tomorrow afternoon, we'll have our preview podcast. We do that for every Premier League game. We look at the opposition. We look at the kind of challenge that they will present to us. Talk more broadly about what's going on in the Premier League that weekend and lots more. that is part of what you get if you're an Arseblog member on Patreon. You can join at patreon.com forward slash Arseblog.

1:11:22Kaya Kaynak: And as well as getting more extra bonus content for your subscription, you also get benefits like advance notice to live events or I don't know, let's say an upcoming publication. You also help us do everything that we do on Arseblog. All the sites are free, our brand new apps, which I urge you to download because they're packed full of new features. You want to check out the match day section in particular, loads of stats, and we'll have the classic live blog and all of that stuff in there. Your Patreon subscription helps us do all that. So if you feel like Arseblog as a whole is worth$6 a month, you can sign up at patreon.com forward slash Arseblog.

1:12:01Kaya Kaynak: So there you go. Lots to get into. Football is back. Brand new Arseblog apps, and hopefully Arsenal back to winning ways on Saturday. You can join myself and James on Sunday this week. We will have a Sunday Arsecast Extra for you. But for now, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed the show. Take it easy, folks. Have a great weekend, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye.

1:13:09electric guitar plays Thank you.

1:13:41Kaya Kaynak: Let's begin. One. Two. Three Premier League charges. Four.

1:13:56Kaya Kaynak: 112. 113.

1:14:05Kaya Kaynak: 114 Premier League charges. guilty that's a lot of Premier League charges shit I said shit in front of the children fuck oh my god I'm such a cunt