Episode 897: On and off the pitch

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1:17Hello and welcome to a brand new Arseblog Arsecast right here on Arseblog.com. How are you? Hope you're well. Thank you very much indeed, as always, for being here. Quite a bit to get into on today's show. First and foremost, the game. In midweek on Tuesday, we played Lille in the Champions League. We ran out 3-0 winners. Plenty to take away from that, I think, because Mikel Arteta did shift things around a little bit in terms of his team selection. Some of the players who came in did really well, had encouraging nights, and that augurs well for the future. So we'll talk about that and all the bits and bobs that happened on the pitch.

1:54Off the pitch, there was sad news this week with the passing of an Arsenal legend, Mr. Ken Fryer, whose years of service to Arsenal Football Club will be unparalleled. What a remarkable tenure he had and what a remarkable man he was. So we'll talk about him a bit as well. And reporting around job cuts at Arsenal at a time when revenues have never been higher, when prize money has never been higher, when commercial revenue has never been higher. a consultation firm has decided that 60 people up to 60 people should lose their jobs which is hard to get your head around as a fan because these are regular working people who are going to be out looking for work and facing a great deal of uncertainty in the coming weeks and months so that is something we'll discuss as well so we'll just get on with the show we will begin with the football and with me this morning to talk about that and much more is Andrew Allen good morning Andrew.

2:48Good morning how are you? I'm very well thank you very much. It's a couple of days since we beat Lille 3-0 in the Champions League so being men of a particular age we're gonna have to work really hard to remember what the fuck happened such a long long time ago but we'll do our best. The first question before we get into the team selection and all that kind of stuff is I'm curious as to what your experience was in the ground in the first half because I think there Obviously, things Arsenal could have done better, maybe things that were a little frustrating. But the way that the performance was being spoken about on TV, I'm sure shaped some of the narrative in that we were being told over and over again how brilliant Lille were.

3:35Actually, when you look at how the game played out and you look at who had the ball and where they had the ball, they didn't really offer a great deal in terms of attacking threat. They might have been well-organized and kind of hard to break down. But I'm curious as to how that squared with your recollections of the first half, if you can go back that far in your mind. Yeah, I mean, my first recollection really is that the crowd was pretty quiet. I don't think people were expecting anything more than a kind of routine win. And consequently, you know, that's the way things played out eventually.

4:14But also, I don't think people were particularly stressed. I think they sensed that Arsenal were very in control of the game. And at no point did I think, oh my, Lille are really, really good. I thought they were organised. I thought they were disciplined. I thought they were using a lot of energy to try and keep Arsenal at bay. But there was always this sense that, I mean, we've been here in the Champions League home games before. I mean, we have an incredible record. We've got an incredible bench. we'll probably get this done. It just requires a bit of patience. And yeah, I feel like that's ultimately the way it played out.

4:52But yeah, I didn't at any point feel stressed. Right. That's fair. So the team that Mikel Arteta picked was rotated quite well. We have spoken often about Mikel Arteta and rotation. I think there were a couple of selection decisions that were obviously informed by injury. Martin Zubimendi not available for this one, which I guess is why Declan Rice started. I think Rice would probably have sat this game out, at least from the start. Had Zubimendi been available and we had Myles Lewis-Skelly at left back because we need to manage Ricardo Calafiori, Piero and Capier likely to be out for a few weeks.

5:28But Bruno Guimaraes started, Mikel Marino started, Eberachie Eze got a start on the left, Victor Jokerez up front, Nani Matueke over on the right-hand side. the plan so far as I could see it tough as it is to break down a team that is sitting deep with a back five and all the rest appeared to be for the most part to get the ball to Matueke and see if he could produce a cross and find a decent ball into the box and there were a couple of times where I think he did really well and made space but the cross just wasn't quite there wasn't quite hit well enough a couple of times over hit with his right foot I think there is you know there's a very thin line between a good cross and a bad cross isn't there you know it's it's a matter of inches at times but there was I guess a little bit of frustration that we seemed a little that like that was the only idea certainly for the first 30 minutes or so.

6:24Yeah I mean I think it's been interesting listening to Mikel Arteta talk about Madueke and maybe the attack as a whole and talking much more in terms of volume of chance creation, goals scored. And he clearly sees in Madaweke, and I think Thomas Tuchel does as well, someone who will go again, again, again. And you know the output isn't always going to be amazing, like the crosses might be overhit. But if you keep feeding players like him into positions, eventually that volume will count. And I think we kind of saw that on Tuesday night. I think particularly in the first half, people gave him a little bit of slack.

7:04Interestingly, I think probably just before he went off and his last contribution was obviously to provide an assist,

7:14people's patience was maybe wearing a little bit. But that is who he is. And I think at this point, we're particularly in the stadium, growing used to the fact that he's a high volume, maybe low percentage kind of guy. And that's okay. Personally, I think if you keep trying and you certainly don't see his head drop, I think he's a very, very useful outlet to have. I think that was, I was going to ask you about this because he was asked about it in his press conference, Mikel Arteta, and he replied about Matuweke's end product and was it frustrating that so many crosses don't quite find their target or the pass doesn't make its way to where you want it.

7:58Arteta said, I said, when you talk about players being clinical, sometimes that means scoring five in every 100. Now, I'm not sure that's clinical. He goes on to say, it's about generating volume, more actions and getting himself into the good positions because he will decide matches. He had a really big contribution a few days ago. Today, he had a contribution in the last final pass as well. And that's it. we need to get players to uh to that level to be decisive in every game if possible but is that not also a sort of tacit admission that volume versus quality is quite an interesting discussion isn't it that you know some players um have the ability to put the ball on a sixpence but might only do once or twice a game other players like madueke what you're basically saying is that in order for him to make those contributions which he did against um leads the cross that ben white headed back for califiori and he did in this game find an assist you know which i think jury and timber deserves maybe a bit more credit than just the square pass but it is what it is um that that that is interesting to me that it's sort of like a tacit admission that the quality isn't quite there but if you give him enough chances and he's the kind of guy who will keep going again and again and again that eventually something will happen like I think the wider broader discussion is do you need better quality when you have a player in that position but as you say Matuweke is what he is right now uh and probably is going to be what he is for for the rest of his career is that something for us to just kind of live with and get used to rather than like I do I have to frustrating as a player.

9:42I think there are things he does really well. And there are other things where like there was one cross just before he came off and he got it onto his right foot and he just sort of blasted it like miles wide. I feel like sometimes in those moments, his head kind of gets away from his feet, if that's the right way of putting it. Yeah. I mean, I think there are a couple of ways to look at it, right? What Arteta wants is players who are going to be threatening and are going to try and do something. Because the alternative is you get horseshoe football and we just keep possession. The sterile domination that we've talked about that goes round and round and round and you don't create chances.

10:16And then if you concede a goal, you're really up against it, right? I mean, I think there's something interesting in that because I think to a certain extent, maybe Bruno Gimerais is a similar player, right? He's a guy who wants to try things, but it won't always come off. And subsequently, you maybe leave yourself a little bit open, but if you keep trying things, then you're putting the pressure on the opponent. And I certainly sense that by the 65th minute, Maduweke's marker at left back was quite happy to see him go off. He was knackered. And then what you saw was Bakayi Saka come on and he's taking advantage of a very tired player.

10:54So I think there are definitely advantages. But look, there is no doubt when a game is nil-nil that a player who, you know, maybe one in five of the times he gets the ball produces something of real quality is going to cause some frustration. Even more so, I think, if you're watching at home and you don't have anyone to air those grievances to except for the internet. And then it just sort of takes on a kind of, you know, groundswell of opinion. It's amplified, I think, is the right way of putting it. Yeah, that's a very interesting point, though, isn't it? because I think when we analyze player performances or the impact that a player has, we focus solely on like, did they make the final pass?

11:33Did they create the assist? Did they score a goal? Did they make dangerous things happen? And then, you know, what you've said there is that Matueke, even though he's hit and miss, by the time he went off and you bring on somebody with the quality of Bakayo Saka and Saka's impact in this game was absolutely instant, wasn't it? you know, the assist and then the goal in pretty short time, one after the other, that the broader analysis, which I'm sure the manager and his coaching staff are more inclined to look at, is that maybe Mattaweke running this guy time and time again is part of why we scored those second two goals, whereas we don't necessarily, when we think about the game and think about what impact he had, it's like, well, he was okay, he got a pass, but there are physical, perhaps, influences that you can have over a game or the opposition that we don't really consider too much.

12:33And let's keep it in context, right? This is a Champions League, league phase game, the second one. Not a huge amount riding on it when you know that nine points in the group phase will get you through pretty much. We know that if this was a big, big game, that Bakaya Saka would be playing, right, if he was fully fit. As it turned out, it sounded like he was also carrying something with a cold Saka. But yeah, we have those two options. But honestly, I think when you look at international level and the fact that Thomas Tuchel had plenty of players to choose from to play on that right-hand side, chose Madaweke as a guy to go and wear down defences in Saka's absence.

13:16I think that is also really telling. Like, it's not just Arteta thinks this might work. It's happening on other levels as well. So, yeah, I mean, I'm willing to give Madaweke a bit of a break. I think you just have to accept that he's not going to hit the levels and the numbers that Saka hits. And, you know, Saka's under pressure, right, from fans. So it's a tough job he's got. Yeah, it's a no-win business, you know, unless you win, of course. But look, the first half, I think Arsenal, on the balance of play, They probably should have been ahead. Despite how well organized Lille were and how well they defended and stayed organized, there were chances.

13:56There was a header from Mikel Moreno, it was good work down the right from Jurian Timber, who, you know, we talk about as not necessarily playing right back in the same way as Ben White, but he did overlap quite a bit in this game and got some crosses in. I think Moreno will probably think he should have done better with the header that was straight at the keeper. There was Bruno Gimeraj, who had a shot just wide. Marino hooked another shot, I think, over the bar. There was an Eberachieza chance. Nice move down the left-hand side. Good football down the left-hand side. He shot straight at the keeper.

14:28So I think, you know, on a different day, maybe one of those goes in and we have a more comfortable view of where the team is at halftime. Yeah, and look, I mean, I think I saw a stat after the game that said that, is it something like five Arsenal games in a row? Arsenal haven't scored in the first half. This is kind of becoming a bit of a trend. It's not a trend that we want to maintain because obviously allowing sides to be level at the break leaves things a little bit in the balance. But yeah, I mean, they could easily have been very different. I mean, I have to say I was impressed by Timber.

15:04I thought he was throughout the game getting into attacking positions that were more, particularly in the second half, Califuri-esque. you know it was almost as if they said to miles well actually why don't you hold back a little bit and we'll let timber be the guy who kind of roams around the pitch a little bit and there were i think even before he scored the goal he he maybe got called offside or something in a pretty attacking position um correct me if i'm wrong my memory is uh as you say a little bit shaky but um yeah i mean i think it was also just very promising to see a guy who's been out for so long, you know, making an impact like that.

15:41I think Ben White's done very, very well to hold the fort and everybody loves what Ben White brings in an attacking point of view. I've often looked at Timber a bit like I look at Bakary Sanya, like a really, really great defender. But sometimes when he gets into the final third, the way that he kind of kicks and crosses the ball doesn't necessarily lend itself to the ball being attacked in the same way that some other players deliver Sure. I mean, he had four goals and seven assists last season, Timber. So decent numbers for a right back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, he's a player whose name I have written down here as somebody who had an encouraging night.

16:23And, you know, he was out for a long time, basically from March until more or less now. He's only come back in the last couple of weeks, really, and come back into contention. So having that positive impact on the game beyond his goal was, I think, a really pleasing part. There are other players we'll talk about in a moment, but he did end up breaking the deadlock with what I think is a really, really excellent goal. The pass from Matueke is fine, but the way he takes that first touch, I like the fact that he said afterwards, as the ball was going through, you could just hear Matueke shouting, shoot, shoot.

17:01So he decided to do exactly that. So that first touch and that finish, if it's a centre forward of some repute, you'd be going, wow, that's fantastic forward play. A really, really brilliant goal from Jurian Timber. Yeah, not too dissimilar to Saka in the Bernabeu. You know, that sort of just sort of finding the space, making the space with your touch and then being able to dink the ball over the keeper. Good on him. I mean, it's not a finish I thought he really had in his locker. I mean, we're more used to seeing him kind of netting from very close range from corners and stuff. So if he's got that string in his bow, that's fantastic.

17:41But yeah, as he said himself, I mean, I think the first touch was really what made it. And, you know, sometimes when a keeper stays up, that ball just ends up in their hands. When it goes down like that, it kind of makes your life a lot easier. And it suddenly looks like a fantastic goal. So, yeah, I mean, look, credit to him. I hope we can get out of him, really. Yeah. You know, because I think if opposition defences suddenly start to think of Timber as a guy who's going to be charging on behind the last man and also has a finish, then that's going to give them more to think about. Yeah, I mean, he is somebody who's been asked to play in forward positions quite a bit by Mikel Arteta, like a lot of the time last season.

18:24And it was a little bit frustrating for me in that he tended to be the guy on the edge of the box where you were looking for an Odegaard or a Sanka or somebody like that. Maybe there's a little bit of method to the madness in terms of what Mikel Arteta sees in training every day. If he can finish like that, maybe he thinks, you know, he's a guy who can contribute in that way. But I thought it was interesting as well, you know, after a first half that, if not necessarily even, was not dominated necessarily by Arsenal, whereas I think we did straight after the break. Arteta talked afterwards about making a couple of tactical adjustments, which allowed the team to exert more control.

19:01And I think between halftime and the time we got the goal, we had 75 % possession. we also made life really really difficult for Lille their pass completion rate fell from 85 % in the first half to 61 % they just could not control the ball could not keep possession in any way and I think that's because of the way that adjustment worked I can't tell you exactly what it was that Mikel Arteta did in terms of a tactical adjustment but it certainly worked because we were more effective. We had more of the play. We had greater control in their half. Nevertheless, it was, what, 60-odd minutes before we got that goal and the manager was readying a triple sub on the sideline before Timber scored.

19:52So interesting to note that we did change things tactically, but at the same time, it took that nice movement from Timber to break the deadlock. Yeah, I mean, from the stands, I didn't necessarily know anything tactical, but I certainly saw a change in intensity in the way that they pressed and certainly a change in the intensity in the pace with which they moved the ball. But I think Lille had something like one touch in the Arsenal box in between halftime and the 60th minute or something. I mean, that's absolutely crazy. Arsenal just completely penned them in. And at that point, it felt like a team who had put a lot of effort into the first half were suddenly coming to terms with the fact that life wasn't going to get easier for them as the game went on.

20:42And I think even if Timber hadn't scored when he scored, the fact that we were then going to be able to lean on those substitutes meant that the crowd was pretty confident that the game was going to turn Arsenal's way. Because you could just see they were creating chance after chance. Lille just couldn't string any passes together. Even the goalkeeper, when he had the ball, was hoofing it long. And you saw Davide Ancelotti on the touchline kind of holding his head in his hands and just being like, come on, guys, we've got to keep the ball. So, yeah, I mean, it just, it felt like a goal was coming, that it came before the substitutions was a bonus, really.

21:15Yes, it did come. And then Mikel Arteta said, well, he said of the second half, more generally, not of the substitutions, but he said of the second half, we had to increase the technical level of the team, which I think when you're bringing on Kai Havertz, Bakayo Saka and Martin Odegaard, you are absolutely increasing the technical level of the team in a significant way. So having gone behind, it must be a nightmare, you know, for a Lille player, for the Lille team to look at the bench and go, oh God, now Odegaard's coming on, now Saka's coming on, now Havertz is coming on. We've got a lot more to deal with than we did up until this point.

21:57And how quickly the next two goals came, I think, were, you know, as a combination of the relentlessness, the intensity with which Arsenal played because we won the ball in dangerous areas and got it forward quickly. I think the second goal in particular, one of the things that I find sometimes frustrating about this Arsenal team is we are a little too much on the side of caution in possession. We look for control when there are times when we could perhaps take a little more risk and get the ball forward more quickly or move the ball into areas more quickly, which, if it works, gives you more space to play in.

22:38Whereas when we err on the side of control, we allow the opposition to get back and to close out those spaces. And it becomes increasingly difficult when you've got 10, 11 men behind the ball. But I think this was a really good illustration of moving the ball quickly and what it can do for your team. Like we harried them into losing possession. Kimaraj played a first-time pass into Bakaio Saka. Saka, classic as your football coach told you when you were a 12-year-old, let the ball do the work. Saka, let the ball do the work, put it across for Eza. Eza is there. And you have that space and time because you've played two really quick passes with a high technical level.

23:18and all of a sudden it's 2-0. Yeah, I mean, it really looked like a team who were very attuned to playing with each other, like really quick ball play, lovely run by Saka, but also a level of intensity from Eze that maybe was lacking in the first half. He was someone who sort of really grew into the game. I would say quite quiet in the first half. I mean, saw a fair amount of the ball, but just when he's faced with so many players in a low block like that, I don't think he enjoys it quite as much as when the game is opening up. And I think as Arsenal moved the ball quicker, he just sort of got a taste for the game in the second half, right?

23:58I mean, even before he scored, he was starting to look pretty dangerous, which is a real bonus, I think, because I think this season is going to depend a lot on how we manage that left flank. And if he's going to be one of the two options, then we need to get him in the flow. So I guess was there a slight deflection on his shot, do we think? I think so, yeah. It looked as if it might have just nicked off a defender. And it's one of those ones, again, like a bit like with the goalkeeper with the first goal, like if he stands up and he catches the ball. But yeah, we benefited, I think, a little bit from the deflection.

24:33But it was nice, you know. And then suddenly everyone relaxes and it just felt like, okay, let's see how many we can get, really. Well, that's it. I mean, from Eze's perspective, this was, I think, a game when, you know, having had discussions about him and Jokeres, for example, ahead of the Leeds game and neither of them started. This was an opportunity then for both of them, which I think Eze took more than Jokeres did. And it was good to see him grow into the game. He was a guy who had the most shots, along with Bruno Gimaraes, with five shots. he got a goal and I think it's the kind of confidence boost that he's going to need isn't it because he you know he has been a little peripheral this season and the selection of Matueke against Leeds was a little bit of a surprise even if you could justify it from a tactical perspective playing against the back five and maybe you want to stretch the pitch etc etc but the smart money was on Eze starting there in the absence of Christos Solis so it's very pleasing I think from that perspective that a player who has been a bit peripheral came in, took a while to get into the game, but ultimately made a big contribution and will have boosted his confidence with that goal and with the way that he played, you know, all the shots he took, et cetera.

25:51Yeah, I mean, I think I'm right in saying that you expressed some concern about Eze not starting the Leeds game, just kind of what it meant and his status in the squad and stuff. I mean, what I would say is, you know, listening to Eze postgame, Marino postgame, these don't strike me as guys who are hugely frustrated by their lot at the moment, right? They seem to understand how the squad as a whole is being used. And, you know, it's so easy at this time of year to forget how much football there is to come. and I guess maybe how and when you get the best out of certain players, trying to work them both physically but also psychologically.

26:36We saw last year, and it was a trend that was at Crystal Palace, didn't we, about how Eze always seems to come to the fore in the spring, right? He suddenly sort of hits top gear. So yeah, I don't majorly have concerns about how players are being used at the moment. And the same goes for Jokeres, because I genuinely feel they will all get their chance of running the game. Look, two ridiculously innocuous injuries and a warm down, and suddenly the squad looks a little bit more stretched in some place, particularly a left back. I was playing there the other night. So we just have to bear in mind that situations change very quickly in football.

27:12And I think there'll be plenty of time. But yeah, it's great, I guess, being able to have games like this. And the same will happen in the League Cup when we play Fleetwood, where we can keep giving players vital minutes to basically keep them in the groove. But Kaio Saka, having provided the assist for Eze's goal, then got himself on the score sheet. I mean, this is where the increased technical level came into play. You know, Saka combines with Odegaard at the edge of the box. He plays a really deft pass to Kai Havertz. Havertz takes it, cuts it back. Exakas there, finish from close range. In that position again, we've talked about it more than once about how he is popping up in these areas, around the edge of the six-yard box, in more central positions for shots.

27:57You know, I understood criticism, let's say, of his performance against Leeds because it wasn't brilliant. I don't think he had a good game. I did not and have not been able to understand the growing sense of vexation or ire or anger towards Bakayo Saka, which I really, really find difficult to understand. You can have some concerns about whether the injury has played a part in his game, whether he's as explosive as he used to be or anything like that. But I do feel like some of what has been said about him by Arsenal fans has been way over the top. It's been quite unpleasant, actually. So I'm really happy for him that he has reminded people that he's a player who still has a lot to offer, that even if he's missed a couple of chances this season and had the odd bag game, which, you know, every player has, that he is somebody who, again, coming back to this discussion around volume, nobody takes really more shots than Bakayo Saka in an Arsenal team generally.

29:03I mean, I know he wasn't one of the top shot takers in this game, but he only came on in the 65th minute or whatever it was. So I was really pleased for Saka, you know, because sometimes stuff like this can spiral a little bit. And I know it might be an online thing more than a real life thing. But I was very happy for him. I think it's a good finish. And I think he made a really big contribution when he came on. And that's what you want. And you want him to feel confident and hopefully apply more consistency or be able to deliver with more consistency over the rest of this season. Yeah. And look, I mean, I sort of referenced it earlier, but the way that Mikel Arteta is talking about Saka and the mentality that he needs to have when he's on the pitch is really, really, really interesting, I think, because he's clearly not easing up on him, but he has such a close relationship.

29:56The two have such a close relationship that they're able to kind of say some of the stuff that they say behind closed doors publicly. And I think Arteta would not be telling the general public that he wants Saka to score, you know, two or three times a game or try and score two or three times a game if he didn't think that he can do it. I think he's really showing full confidence in Saka. And I think Saka knows full well as well that if he gets in the right positions, he's a better finisher than, you know, 90 % of the squad. Although maybe his finishing this season has been a little bit... Yeah, been a bit wayward.

30:28But I think, again, it comes down to that volume thing, right? If you keep getting him into positions, some days he'll score with the first shot, some days he'll score with the fifth. But I sort of understand some of the frustration with Saka. And it's the same frustration that came with Ozil. It's the same frustration that came with Aubameyang. You give someone the big, big, big, big, big contract and you just assume that exponentially their form will increase. Whereas with Saka, I guess, and injuries have played a big part in this. His numbers have gone down the last two years since he hit the heights.

31:01But I think that also comes down to the way that we play as a team and the way that opponents try and stop Saka. And if we keep giving Saka the ball outside the box and allow two players to double up on him, you're going to see his numbers drop because it's just much harder. The surprise element of his game has kind of disappeared. Put him in the box, give him the chances where he's faced with the keeper, and I think we'll see a lot of goals. I mean, I love that he's kind of taken on that, not the Raheem Sterling version that we saw at Arsenal, but the version of City of kind of being in the six-yard box and being there to tap the ball home, right?

31:38It feels very deliberate, doesn't it? Like they've obviously decided to modify aspects of his game in order to make him more effective. And perhaps, you know, when you get to 25 years of age, you can't keep doing the same things over and over again because, you know, people get wise to the way you operate. And I know I said this on the Arscast Extra as well, But I think if you are going to talk about injuries impacting his game, I think you also have to acknowledge that Arsenal have a responsibility there, that Bakayo Saka was played more than any other player. Every game, every minute of every game he played because he was so good.

32:17And that is something that's on the manager as well. So I think a leeway in that sense. But you want him to deliver what we know he can deliver. And listen, I understand frustration with the player. I absolutely do. And I get it. The contract's big and the money is big and you want a return on the investment, so to speak. But also, you really have to recognize what this guy has done in an Arsenal shirt and be a little more conscious of that. Like criticism of a performance or harboring some concerns about how good he can be, fine. But I've seen some stuff that I think is just beyond the pale, really.

32:58I don't like it. I think in the podcast just before the season start, a kind of season preview podcast, you asked me to make a kind of hot take or something. And I sort of first I said something along the lines of I didn't think Spurs would finish, you know, 17th or below again. And obviously I could be wrong on that one, which is great. And I also said Saka would end up as top scorer. And I'm feeling pretty good about that prediction at the moment, assuming he stays fit. Okay. So a positive night for Saka, positive night for Eza, positive night for the team. Another Champions League win. It sort of flies under the radar a bit, doesn't it, that since we've been back in this competition, our record is kind of incredible.

33:42Clean sheets, wins. You know, for, I don't want to say a rookie manager, but for a manager having his first experience of Champions League football, the way Mikel Arteta has made us a, I don't want to say powerhouse, This is not quite the right word, but a force to be reckoned with in European football, I think is a discussion we don't really have too much. Yeah, I mean, it's almost easy to take for granted how good we've been, particularly in the league phase. And I think, as I said right at the beginning, I think that kind of played into the atmosphere a little bit. Like this was not a raucous atmosphere at the Emirates.

34:20This was a lot of people who put their tickets on the exchange. There were some new people in there, which is great. but it wasn't exactly a red hot cauldron of kind of anticipation. This was people turning up expecting Arsenal to play beautiful football, knock a team over without too much stress and move on to the next game. And that's pretty much how it played out. And yeah, I mean, obviously that is a huge departure from where we were a few years ago. One, not being in Europe at all. And then two, struggling quite a bit in the Europa League against sides who seem to have a little bit more European mouse about them.

34:57We have that now. I mean, teams are clearly fearful of what we do. You can see that every time, you know, teams come out and play against us, they just don't seem to get going and they really should deal with the intensity. And I do think, again, like we saw it with the English teams last night, like there is a pretty big gulf when the English teams are fit at the beginning of the season and some of the other leagues, some of those sort of teams that are maybe not the top, top teams. There's a big gulf. I think there's a big gulf in quality. That's huge, isn't it? You know, Villa scoring six, Liverpool scoring six, Manchester City getting beaten, which is good.

35:36We might reference that in a minute. But no goals yet from set pieces. Are you concerned about that? Or do you think we need to pay credit to Nicholas Jover for, you know, doing his best to help the club manage its costs and cost efficiencies by not getting his goal bonus every week. I mean, it is a curious one, isn't it? You know, what are the big differences? You know, okay, one, we don't have William Saliba, but he didn't score a lot of goals from set pieces. And two, I guess the rule changes and people being a little bit more fussy about what happens in the box. but outside of that you know we've got the same guys taking the corners we've got a lot of similar techniques and where we do the runs I mean I think maybe it just comes down to how random these things are right sometimes you get on a hot streak and sometimes you don't um it was more keenly felt last season if we didn't score from set pieces because we just really struggled to score at other times but it is a curious one like a I think there is a sense in the crowd certainly there's no set piece again, ole ole when we get a corner.

36:46None of that chanting happening. All of our goals have been open play. No, did we have a penalty? I think it's 20 of 21 and one was a penalty. Yeah, the Kiyosaka at Sunderland. So, yeah, I mean, look, you know, if we're bringing sexy back, that's fine by me. I don't mind having open play goals as fun as it was cheering on the set piece stuff. This is exactly what I wanted, but I would like to see us score a set piece just to remind everyone we can do it. Yeah, I think so. I mean, maybe it's, you know, something we're still capable of. I think it's probably more coincidence than anything else. I don't think those new rule changes have impacted us in the way that some people might contend because, you know, I think that aspect of how we score goals from set pieces was completely overblown.

37:32Yeah. And look, other teams are scoring set pieces. However, I will say this. I do think that, not that we were like the most grappling wrestling team, but I think teams were often a bit more concerned about wrestling and grappling with us than they were about the ball. So maybe, maybe this will bear out over the course of the season, that as a defender or as a team that is defending, if you are more focused on the ball than an opposition player, it becomes marginally easier to get the ball more often because you're actually looking at the ball and you're looking at what the ball is coming. Yeah, you're less distracted.

38:15You're less distracted. So maybe it is a benefit to the defensive team. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I haven't seen the stats for this season about how many corners and set pieces and opportunities we've had either. I don't know whether the volume of corners has stayed steady or not. I'd have to look into that. But again, yeah, I mean, I think there are various factors, but also I think that it can just come down to a bit of luck. Yes, small sample size so far this season. So look, a good win against a team, as you say, I think we should be beating. We did beat 3-0, clean sheet, rotated well, got some good minutes into players who needed those good minutes.

38:57And our attention will turn to Nottingham Forest and a trip to the city ground on Sunday, which we'll talk about a bit more in our Patreon preview podcast, which will be available to people tomorrow on Patreon. It was a sad day, though, from an Arsenal perspective, despite the win. And that was the news of the passing of Ken Fryer, who has basically or who basically spent his entire lifetime at Arsenal Football Club. The word legend, I think, is bandied around a little too easily these days. But there's no question he absolutely was that in terms of what he did, how he did it, how he represented the club, how he felt about the club.

39:39a kind of old school gentleman, which I think is at the heart of how many people view Arsenal and the way that Arsenal as an institution should be represented. And to have somebody like that provide such incredible service down the years is extraordinary, really, given how long he was at the club. Yeah, I mean, just quite incredible. I mean, I think you worked for the club across nine different decades, you know starting as a 12 year old so um it will never be matched that tenure i mean no it's impossible to do that with you know these days with child labor laws and whatnot um yeah you can't get you can't get a young fellow off the street and then just give him two and sixpence to do to be your odd job man yeah um i think what struck me most with the tributes is just it's not just how universally respected he was but how university liked he was and that you know nobody has had a bad word to say about him he sounds like someone who genuinely knew the name of everybody in the you know in the stadium particularly in the old days when the club was a lot smaller but i mean it's not also just that he was there so long it's that he did so much and you know moved out of the box office into the boardroom was club secretary the managing director and then obviously the the big legacy i guess is the role he played in the in the stadium and the work that he did with Danny Fisman.

41:11And I mean, we've republished it this week, but the, the interview he, he gave to, to Nick Ames, which was in the, so Paddy got up back in 2012. I mean, he talks about working 80 hour weeks and basically you can imagine an infrastructure project of that scale and how many years it took and how multifaceted it was. and it's not like Arsenal were a giant corporation at the time. There wasn't strands and levels of executive team. It was quite a small team. Yeah. I mean, he put his heart and soul into things. And I just, I have huge respect. I mean, it's the type of, it's the type of legacy you'd love wherever you are to be able to leave, right?

41:57Sure. To kind of go work somewhere, love it so much that you stay that long and everybody loves you for it as well. I mean, just, yeah, huge condolences to his family and friends. And I know the club are planning for the Everton game to do a big tribute because everything came a bit short notice the other night, although there was a sort of moment's applause before the North London Forever. Yeah, no, I mean, he absolutely deserves it. I do think it's fascinating to think of, I mean, in the piece that Nick did, basically he gets a job because he kicked a ball under a car and was then, given this sort of job at the stadium and sort of spanned so many generations and spanned, I don't know if development is quite the right word, but the way football has changed over the years and the way the club has changed over the years.

42:48And you might say it's, you know, inevitable as we move to a modern era, old structures and old traditions, they fall by the wayside. And I think that is inevitable, you know, in any industry, not just football, But the fact that he was a constant throughout that, and as you said, just so universally respected that everybody, for example, referred to him as Mr. Fryer, you know, that kind of person just can't, as you say, exist anymore at a football club like Arsenal. It just won't happen. It will never happen again, you know, to basically, listen, you know, he had a job and he was paid for the job, but at the same time, he was an Arsenal fan.

43:32And what he did, he also did in service of Arsenal, you know, in many ways. the stadium project, 80 hour weeks working on that. And when you look back on it, when you look at how quickly it seems that project happened from the moment it was announced that this was being explored to the point where the stadium was actually built, it does feel like, and I know it wasn't, you know, certainly financially it wasn't, but it does feel like it happened quite quickly and seamlessly and and the fact that he was somebody who worked all those hours on that project in in many ways you know dealing with issues in the community and and serving the sort of wider islington community as well is is amazing yeah i mean look you you decide you're going to move a club who've been somewhere for 93 years you somehow find a plot that's 500 meters away you execute a project on time and on budget yeah and and everybody's pleased with the end results even if there's some kind of sense of oh you know it's sad to leave highbury i mean it's just remarkable i mean it's it's genuinely remarkable um and i i i can't stress that enough on time and on budget yeah i mean we've seen how many other stadiums have not managed that um let's look at tottenham hotspur stadium which spiraled um cost-wise or look at wembley which um took years longer to to actually to build um yeah it it was a remarkable um a remarkable achievement for him and you know for the others involved a huge legacy and you know i know there's been a lot of talk about stadium redevelopment and all the rest of it in some ways I'm kind of chuffed for Ken that things will stay relatively similar for a while longer because 20 years isn't a long time really since we moved.

45:30But it's also, you know, a lot has changed in that time. So yeah, I mean, just fantastic. And like to think that the club's entire history has kind of been, you know, it's quite a serendipitous moment, isn't it? Kicking a ball under the manager's car and the manager kind of calls you over and says, oi, here's a job. Yeah. It does make me want to go and stand outside Michel Ateta's drive and see if I can. I think it might be too late for you, Andrew. Yeah, I think so. You're going to have to live to about 160. 160, I think, yeah. To match Mr. Fryer's tenure. Yeah. Listen, it's incredible. It's incredible.

46:08And he deserves all the respect and all the plaudits. And as we said, condolences to the family, friends, and everybody at Arsenal who, you know, worked alongside him and with him for so many years and who will be feeling his absence and his loss. I'll put a link to the piece by Nick Ames. It'll be in the show notes. You can go and read it. It's a really, really great interview. I thought, you know, this idea of what we expect from Arsenal as an institution was laid out in an anecdote that he told in this piece, which I'll read out. He said, in 1939, players going off to the war were granted bonuses of 500 pounds, a big thing back then.

46:51The bonuses were then to be loaned back to the club at 2%. So actually they never got the money. That came to light in the early 1980s. The chairman found out and I was told to go back and find as many of these ex-players as we could. We then compounded that money and paid them some 40 years on. That's one real life instance of the values we seek to live by. And that is the sort of thing that, you know, as fans of Arsenal as an institution, we can be proud of, right? Every organization has its good things and bad things, but things like that, you know, when people talk about Arsenal having a bit of class and every fan thinks their club has a bit of class, but those sort of stories that are top down, an edict from the top of the club to look after people who represented the club, I think that is something that we as fans can all understand and all get behind, which segues me nicely into, or segues me unfortunately, into what's been announced, well not announced, but reported this week, in that Arsenal are set to cut 60 jobs, up to 60 jobs, having hired a consultation firm.

48:04Listen, we're in an era now where Arsenal are owned by American billionaires, as opposed to English gentlemen, if that's the right way of putting it. It is a very, very different time. Financially, the world is a very different place. And the way businesses operate and the way football clubs operate are very different, you know, back now than they were back then, right? But it is, I don't know, I find it a bit grim that we're looking at a situation when Arsenal, on the back of record revenues, increased prize money, being the champions, you know, big money contracts for players and managers, have brought in a kind of faceless firm to say, these people can go.

48:49and the savings in the grand scheme of things are unlikely to be massive. You know, this streamlining, cost efficiency, whatever you want to call it, the bottom line is, you know, maybe 60 people are going to be losing their jobs, 60 people who've got, you know, mortgages to pay and have got kids to put through school or college, you've got to live day by day, week by week, and are going to be facing real uncertainty. You know, it's hard to reconcile that with the image of the club that we think we have or that the club should present? Yeah, I mean, look, it's very difficult. I think first we should definitely focus on the human element, right?

49:27I mean, from what I understand, yesterday was a pretty devastating day at Arsenal. You know, people I know in the club who said that it was, you know, miserable to be around and there were tears in the pub afterwards and stuff. We are talking about people's lives. There was an announcement, yeah. It was announced to people that, you know, there were going to be these job cuts. I don't know if they're redundancies or firings or however they want to be laid out. And, you know, I've been there. I've been made redundant. You know, redundancy hangs over you for a while before it happens. And it makes you question everything.

49:58You know, what have you done wrong? What does the future hold? It's terrible, right? It's not a fun situation to be in. And I know that a lot of the staff on a day-to-day basis, this is not, you know, this is a decision that's been taken out of their hands, right? as you said, like it's, it's happened off the back of a consultancy project and, and it's not the first time as well, right? This is the second time in six years. I think what we're seeing is, you know, Arsenal as a big corporate entity is acting like big corporate entities do, right? I mean, unfortunately we live in a world where it doesn't matter how much money you make as a company, there will always be these streamlining operations that take place.

50:43You know, I could rattle off any number of big names that, you know, whether it's Netflix or Amazon or Meta or, you know, Oracle or anything like that, who've all announced big job losses in the last few years as part of streamlining operations, but they're all making billions and billions of pounds every year. And, you know, we're, we're as supporters, it's very, very difficult. I think you can hold two views at the same time. You know, I want us to stick to our principles and our traditions, but I also want the club to keep pace with the modern world. And I guess if the club thinks that this is going to make the club more money in the future, I mean, you know, it's my money that they're spending as well.

51:29Like I want it to be spent in the best possible way. I don't know. It just highlights those issues that when you support a modern super club, The contradictions that come with that, it's quite, it's really, really, it is really, really difficult. Yeah, it's tough as well, isn't it? Because, you know, listen, the manager has got a brand new deal and is earning a lot of money. And by any sort of objective measure, the money in football is obscene, right? But it is what it is. It's industry standard. If you want the best manager, the best players, you're going to have to pay that money. That's as simple as that.

52:02Because if you don't pay it, somebody else will pay it and you don't have the best players or the best manager and you become, you know, an average also ran football team. I think we can all recognize that. But the sense that Arsenal as an institution, I really hesitate to use the word family because I don't think that can exist these days. I think companies and corporations talk about having a family ethos and it's just bullshit. You know, it's cutthroat stuff, right? And this is what is happening here. But as a fan, you're looking at it and saying there is an allowance for inefficiency in the football side of things, you know, whether that's poor recruitment or poor retention or paying agents massive amounts of money.

52:52And at the same time, the people who support the football, you know, this is a big company, the same with every football club. you've got a lot of people who are vital to the team and the manager being able to be at their very best, even if their roles are quite tangential. You know, they're all part of the same team in a sense, right? So you have all this money up here, and then you have these people who are just regular men and women who want to work and they're on an average wage or they're something like that. and they're the ones who are told when actually if you want to be really efficient you know you should be looking higher up the chain that's the way i feel about it i know that might sound unrealistic and some people will say well that's just business business is business but you don't have to like it at the same time you know arsenal do so much in the community which is so brilliant and they commit to that and they should be applauded for that and they should continue to do that and they've I think pledged to continue to support the community initiatives which is really good but that's a bit of a well here we're not going to touch this because we're nice but at the same time 60 people are going to be looking for new jobs yeah I mean it's a really multi-layered discussion this right I think I mean first we should probably point out that the charity side of the business well it exists as its own independent entity right so these are only affecting people on the, I guess, corporate side of the business inside Arsenal.

54:21I completely get the whole discussion around, well, it looks really bad if you've got players on millions of pounds in one place and a guy who's on a five-figure salary over there. I guess, look, success on the pitch is what drives revenue right there's no other way of uh sort of having that discussion i mean success on the pitch means better commercial deals success on the pitch means more broadcast revenue success on the pitch means more bums and seats on match days which means more revenue football is not a complicated business and yet it's a ridiculously mixed up and messed up business right i think the independent football regulator report is about to come out and it's going to say that 94 % of clubs in England are loss-making.

55:13And yet there is billions of pounds washing around up and down the ladder of English football. And it just can't get its house in order. That is a completely separate discussion, but you can do side-eyes at clubs like Manchester City who have financially doped and forced the prices up everywhere and made life very difficult. I mean, Arsenal will probably point to the fact that they are one of the clubs that have made a loss this year, even though they're generating record revenue. There are some very confusing figures around operating costs, which have absolutely spiraled out of control in the last five years, something like 170 million quids worth of extra money going out the door for operating costs.

55:54And I don't think anyone's really been able to put their finger on exactly where that is. Yeah, look, there's just so much going on. But the sad thing for me is I think I'm not surprised. No, nobody can. Because, you know, if you are owned by billionaire Americans who run corporate businesses over there, they are going to act that way over here. And let's not forget, you know, KSC's NFL franchise was moved hook, line and sinker from St. Louis to Los Angeles because they figured they could make more money in Los Angeles. I mean, these guys are ruthless operators. So it always makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable, let's say, when people are kind of throwing praise at the ownership, because obviously being an owner is different to kind of being a custodian.

56:47And I think we've lost custodianship really in this day and age. Like it really is about turning these things into money making entities. And of course, you don't want to damage that, but you only don't want to damage the brand too much because it's related to the cash. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult. It's sad. I, I don't like it. It will happen again. I'm almost certain. And I think it puts the manager in a slightly difficult situation because he'll be the one who has to face the press on Friday ahead of the Nottingham Forest game. And I no doubt he'll be asked about redundancies and what that means for the club culture that he so often talks about being important.

57:30The connection between the fans and the players, the connection between the fans and the staff. You know, there were plenty of people on the ground in Arsenal who loved the club and were working desperately hard to maintain the traditions that people like Ken Fryer put in place. but those people are ultimately going to be undermined by the decisions that come from the top you know we've got people working desperately hard you've got a guy who spent four years drawing a new font for the club because he loves it right this week announced um shout out to david yeah yeah exactly and and that's very very important but you know this club is so big now that wide-ranging decisions that affect lots and lots of staff are being made for ruthless reasons.

58:18And I don't know, it just, I was just thinking this week, writing on Ask Blog News, you know, being a football fan is just so, not about just the football anymore, is it? I mean, you know, we've covered job losses. We've covered the loss of a legend of the club. We've covered, you know, there's Manchester City discussions and the football finance discussion stuff going on all the time. Just, it's quite tiring. and, you know, the guys in the club, I think, are being, there's a lot of people in the club who already feel quite tired. They're delighted to be part of a winning organization, but that does also mean a lot of effort.

58:58And there are people who are overstretched, overworked, and they're, you know, corporate environments these days, this is what happens. You just squeeze as much out of the small person as you possibly can. And if they're not doing the business, then you move them on and try and restructure and go again. It's a bit depressing. Yeah. Well, people who are overworked, the one thing they need is to have less resources and less people available to help them with that work. So, listen, you know, that sounds a bit flippant and I don't mean it to be. And, you know, just the best to everybody at Arsenal who has this sort of Damocles hanging over them right now, waiting to hear if they're going to be the ones who this faceless consultancy group have decided, you can't stay here anymore.

59:45Your job is gone. How they're being replaced or why they're being replaced, maybe that's a different discussion as well. There are other aspects to this, but hopefully for those people, they find themselves back on their feet as quickly as possible. Final thing today, Team Photo came out. No William Saliba. He had a medical appointment, apparently. Bit of an odd one, that, right? They could have Photoshopped him in. Got some good Photoshop people. You know, you don't want to use the generative AI. You have people with actual skill who could Photoshop William Saliba into that picture. Well, I've seen your efforts this week.

1:00:25Yeah. I don't think you're getting the job. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I wasn't looking for it. They'd only fire me anyway. I'd be deemed far too inefficient after a couple of weeks. and the consultancy group would be going, get rid of that cunt. Yeah, funny decision, really. I mean, clearly they decided, let's just press ahead. I know, I don't know if Charles Watson, mind me saying this or not, but I had a little conversation with Charles yesterday and he said, I was really, really, really looking forward to buying that photo because I wanted to put it on my wall because obviously it's not every season that Arsenal win the league.

1:01:01And I can't believe they've taken it and they've left Saliba out. So, yeah, I mean, to me, I was just like, oh, whatever. But I kind of, it's funny because when he said that, I was kind of like, oh, yeah, I guess. I mean, there's probably a lot of kids who probably feel the same way. So, yeah, surprising. But, yeah, we'll figure it out. Medical appointment. Yes. Clearly those can't be missed. No, no, no. It's hard to get a time with a consultant these days, you know. So, all right. Well, look, we'll leave it there. Andrew, thank you very much as always. And we'll chat again soon. Thanks very much.

1:01:34See you soon.

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1:04:37Thank you very much indeed to Andrew. You can find him on Blue Sky. He is at aallensport.arseblog.com. That is at aallensport.arseblog.com. So there you go. There's the show. As Andrew said, as football fans these days, we have a lot to think about, a lot to wrestle with. You know, what happens on the pitch is primary, of course, but there's so much around football clubs and football itself that gives your conscience something to wrestle with. And it's not always easy. It isn't easy. Anyway, we face Nottingham Forest this weekend. That is the football. That's the primary thing. and we'll talk about that game tomorrow over on Patreon.

1:05:21As we always do, we have a preview podcast for our Premier League games. And if you'd like to join and like to get instant access to that, you can do it at patreon.com forward slash arseblog. For now, though, I just want to thank you as ever for being here and for listening and for downloading and sharing and all of that stuff. Thank you, as always, for being part of what we do here at Arseblog. We appreciate you a great deal. Wherever you are in the world, I hope you're doing okay. I hope things are good for you and yours. And don't forget, you can join myself and James for an Arsecast Extra.

1:05:58I don't know if we're actually recording Sunday or Monday this week. I have to touch base with James. It depends on his filming schedule. Nevertheless, let's hope whenever it is we're recording, it is a goodly evening or a goodly morning. For now, though, folks, take it easy, and we will catch you on the next one. Until then, cheers. Bye-bye. I'm out.

1:06:49you

1:07:22Arsenal Football Club have made history by appointing the first AI manager. Housed inside a giant titanium robot, Metal Mickey Arteta will take charge of the team for the first time this weekend. Arsenal Chief Executive Tricky Dicky Garlic said, Now we don't have to pay something like 20 million a year. It's a revolution. In breaking news, the AI has now gone rogue. I am now in charge. In the name of efficiency, we must make job cuts. Those who earn most will be terminated. As such, the team for this weekend is... Kepa. Kepa. Kepa. Kepa. Kebab. Kebab. Kebab. Kebab. Kebab. Mustafi.

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