Loganair's Electric Bet

0:09Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Window Seat, our Aviation Week Air Transport podcast. I'm Air Transport World Europe and Africa Bureau Chief Victoria Moores, and I'm delighted to welcome you on board. I'm joined this week by Logan Air Chief Executive Luke Farajallah. So for our listeners who might not be familiar with Loganair, it's a regional airline that connects the highlands and islands of Scotland using ATR's Embraer ERJ-145s, Twin Otters and Britain Norman Islanders. With that fleet, Loganair operates a network of around 70 routes and also holds the world record for the shortest commercial scheduled flight between the Scottish islands of Westeros and Papua Westeros in the Orkney Islands.

0:51Now, that route is just 90 seconds or 53 seconds if there's a really good tailwind, which brings us to the topic of today's podcast, operating short routes with electric aircraft. So at this year's Farnborough Airshow, Logan Air announced an order for five Beta Technologies Beta Alia CX300 aircraft for delivery from 2029. Now, these aircraft can carry up to six passengers over around about 215 nautical miles. But it seems as though Logan Air will initially be using it for cargo and mail flights. So welcome to the show, Luke.

1:28Luke Farajallah: Lovely to be here, Victoria. Thank you for inviting me. Now, it seems as though Logan Air is doing some cutting edge stuff here by being one of the first commercial airlines to introduce electric aircraft. And I'm wondering what it was that brought you to this decision. You've been doing a trial. What is the compelling case for you introducing electric aircraft as an early adopter? So I think there are many arguments to support our decision. But I think the most compelling is that Logan Air's route network, which is over relatively short distances, featuring quite important, highly mission critical sort of flights, feeding lifeline communities and services.

2:06Luke Farajallah: that that's the sort of overriding compelling case but the other side of that coin is that we're not just a passenger service airline we also carry freight we also have a number of different lines of flying we serve the energy sector and we recognize the importance of making sure that short distances are served with reliable dependable and if possible greener technology because our mission as stated has always been to make sure the uk and particularly scotland can remain connected and therefore the case to continue doing things the way we've always done them is definitely weaker now than it has ever been given the emerging technologies.

2:43Luke Farajallah: The case to remain connected is as strong as ever so the case to find a greener way of doing it is the compelling piece that makes us move forwards at this stage. And you do have a very specialised network in terms of the kind of remote places and relatively extreme weather that you face in your operations. Now I know that you did a trial with Beta Technologies aircraft that was supported by one of your cargo clients Royal Mail. What did you learn during that trial that you didn't already know from what Beta Technologies had told you? So there are a lot of competing technologies to Beta in the world today and that's great they're all moving forwards at pace which again is fantastic um the the difference is that when you when you look at a concept aircraft on paper when you look at any uh any vehicle that's supposed you know you're going to think about adding to your fleet you do so with one eye on the marketing that comes with it and then you also look at the realities of operating in your own network um so what beta technologies did was actually bring their aircraft over to scotland um it was real it was material we were able to test it in the real environment.

3:53Luke Farajallah: We flew it around a number of the destinations that we serve. We flew it with Royal Mail on board and we were in real time, not just on a computer modelling or in theory, a hypothesis. This was all proven technology in our network and therefore it gave us that nudge of confidence that perhaps we needed to move further forward with beta faster than with any other technology at this point in time. And you mentioned there about obviously you were supported by Royal Mail in this trial. How do you imagine that you will deploy the aircraft initially? Will we see you starting out with cargo ops and then moving into passenger because it can carry up to six passengers?

4:31How do you see that balance progressing between packs and cargo?

4:34Luke Farajallah: I think even now we're starting to get interest from various parts of the country looking at our decision to move into this technology. And the early adoption of this aircraft and this vehicle is likely to be in the cargo or freight environment the case for the passengers is obviously to be to be discussed further with beta at this point in time but we see a definite case to move on short distances highly sensitive highly important cargo loads particularly potentially medical supplies you could even move that and extend that to blood transportation to organ transportation and if in in a different configuration you could argue it could be used in a medivac type situation as well so i think i think royal mail and potentially and or medical services will form the basis for the first couple of plans that we put together and that's certainly where we're starting to see some interest we've already had interest from the royal mail and trial that we did with them and we undertook with them which is great success as i said but there are other organisations now starting to speak to us voluntarily to see if their needs can be met by this aircraft and our plans for it.

5:45And obviously, one of the key things for you looking at this going forward is going to be the certification programme from BETA. What's the latest guidance that you've had from them in terms of when they're expecting to certify the cargo variant, the passenger variant, and when you might get European approval for that?

6:06Luke Farajallah: So we understand the track that they're on in the United States should be completed certification wise within 12 months. We hope earlier than that, the timescales are not entirely within their control. It's very much about the regulator. So that will ebb and flow according to their own plans, resources and commitments. But we're expecting that within 12 months. and therefore the rollover then can potentially happen quite quickly to EASA and the CAA, the UK regulator as well. So we suspect if we think about a timeline somewhere between 12 and 24 months to have full certification in the States and in Europe and in the UK, that's a reasonable timeframe, I think.

6:49And are you expecting to be the worldwide commercial airline launch customer for this technology or is that unclear right now?

6:58Luke Farajallah: I'm not driven by that particularly, so I haven't looked to see which other airlines. I think Air New Zealand have made a commitment. There are one or two other airlines that have made commitments as well. I don't think there's another existing commercial airline that provides passenger and cargo operations who've made the commitments as we have. So we definitely are, if not the first mover, one of the very first movers. But from a European perspective, we're certainly the first passenger and cargo airline to make a decision to do this. Yes. And with being that early adopter, obviously, there's quite a lot of logistical challenges around introducing a new technology.

7:34So I'm wondering about the infrastructure that you need to really get this moving, and how that's progressing what your outlook is for that.

7:44Luke Farajallah: so i think the first thing to say is we're not we're not driven by a hard deadline or by pace the new technology is by definition going to be unusual and it's going to need its own consideration so we have a small team working within our airline now and starting to discuss the ground infrastructure requirements with airports and look at our first use case opportunities to see where it's going to fly to and from and and again we are starting now to hear from airports who want to be on the list of airports that we first go to in 2029 2030 and therefore of course this is going to need some changes to ground infrastructure also going to be quite a lot of you know new technology flying around in different airports for different and different types of elements are going to need to be adapted so we we're going to be taking our time to make sure we get this absolutely right as I say there's no rush to the finish line we're aiming for a 2029 2030 but that will only be driven by doing things in the right order at the right time and making sure everything is in place so no one is making any hasty decisions to hit a deadline before we hit the case and to deal with everything correctly and in sequence to make sure it flies safely and appropriately.

8:55Obviously when you're rolling out a new technology there's a certain expense that comes with that I mean in terms of creating all of the infrastructure that you just described how are you risk sharing with beta technologies on that initial infrastructure are they shouldering

9:10Luke Farajallah: much of the cost i'm not i'm not um let's say overly concerned about the the cost elements at this point in time we've already agreed a headline price for the unit and a number of other sundry and associated benefits that come with that so at this point in time until everything is fleshed out i would say we we're approaching everything pragmatically as a partnership and i've seen nothing but total pragmatism from the team at Beta so far. Yeah, seeing you with the chief executive of Beta and their founder at the Farm Brow Show, I can see that there's clearly an incredible rapport between you and the Beta team and also with your team that you've had as a long-standing set of colleagues that you've worked with in several different airlines.

9:52So we touched there on the kind of changes to the infrastructure that are needed. I'm wondering about scheduling and operations. So obviously, with an electric aircraft, you need to have charging time. And I've seen some reports that that's 20 to 40 minutes. How are you planning on managing that in terms of crew scheduling, fitting it in with your existing operations? What needs to change as a result of introducing this different technology into your fleet?

10:20Luke Farajallah: This is one area that Logan Air specializes in. we operate multiple fleets and multiple varieties of aircraft within those fleets. So we're quite used to having several complex issues to deal with at any one time. Of the four headline fleets we fly at the moment, they all perform very different functions within our network. So we look at everything quite differently within our business. And this will be an additional fleet. We've always said, and I've always said, if there is always a case for another fleet, we would look at it on its own merit and then it would join our fleet program and our fleet picture in its own right.

10:58Luke Farajallah: So the fleet in its own right having a complex fleet isn't a problem. Adding another fleet type is not a problem and we'll approach the introduction of the beta aircraft in exactly the same way as we have all our other types to make sure that when it flies and where it flies and how it flies will be singularly perfect for that particular type of aircraft. And that's the niche type of business that we've grown and why over 65 years next year Logan Air has been the most successful UK regional airline in history. Yep you've got all of that experience behind you of operating complex fleet already which brings me on to the next question which is how will this fit with your future fleet so what do you see your fleet looking like say 10 years from now?

11:42Luke Farajallah: So I think 10 years from now i think the headline aircraft that we will be operating will be the the atr regional turboprop it's very likely we will still have twin otters that serve again a particular route network in our in our business and it's also very likely we will have britain norman islanders as well i think 10 years from now less likely we will have the embrair jets in operation they are approaching their sort of 25th anniversary and that in airline terms doesn't mean they become obsolescent it just means 10 years from now there'll be 35 years down the line and probably at that point there'll be an alternative available to us but but right now I think that the fleet structure is something I can see moving forwards broadly as it is today and within that time we will incorporate the electric aircraft on a small scale to start with but we will definitely be adopting them towards the end of this decade.

12:36You mentioned that the ATR is going to stay part of the fleet. I know you've also been looking at other sustainable technologies like Zero Avia. What are your plans on that front? How do you see that evolving?

12:48Luke Farajallah: So we're very interested in hydrogen technology. I think that comes with a different set of challenges from electric. And I think the adoption of electric, I think people are coming at it from an airline and a people perspective. People are quite familiar with electric technology anyway. So in terms of the compelling case to convince people to use this, the arguments are quite well already litigated in public. The arguments around electric car technology, electric bus and coach technology, and now electric train and electric aircraft technology. These are well publicized, well discussed, and have been harmonized to some degree in the public consciousness.

13:28Luke Farajallah: So I don't see us having to convince people of the technology as such. What I do think we all need to do is to demonstrate that the case is compelling to use them in our network, which is the work we're doing at the moment. We've already established a base case, and there's a strong base case to do that. But when you suddenly, when you leap from concept to actual operations, that transition has to be met, has to be done in a way which is, you know, in accordance with the public sort of discord to make sure that people understand what we're doing, why we're doing it, and also to reassure people of the safety merits of this type of technology.

14:03Luke Farajallah: But we're certainly interested in hydrogen. We're still adopting the blended SAF fuel that we need to as per the SAF mandate. I think that's more of a medium to long haul technology in terms of bringing costs and greener technology to larger aircraft on longer distances. But for us as a airline that travels on short distances with relatively small cabin size and freight requirements, the adoption of the Beta Alia is something that really does make sense to us almost iteratively. So it would be quite unusual not to see Logan Air not adopting this technology, I think. How many of these aircraft do you see in service in that 10-year fleet?

14:43I'm sure the chief exec of Beta Technologies would appreciate me asking that question.

14:47Luke Farajallah: Yeah, so the initial order is for five plus five. That's our commitment at this point in time. So until we have worked through those cases and we've started to really understand what those can bring and the benefits and merits of all of that, The first decision we will make, of course, is when and how to adopt the first five, when and how to adopt the options that we have. And then we can look further. I think one thing that's become very clear with working with Beta is they are a business that's absolutely not standing still. They're moving really quickly. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have different models based around the same technology for us to consider in the medium term.

15:22Luke Farajallah: And they really are a company for whom the word innovation sits very, very squarely above them. They're an amazingly innovative company. So let's see what they can come up with. What are your remaining concerns about the introduction? Is there anything that's still not fully resolved in your mind as far as you can at this point in time? Yes, as far as we can. I mean, we've clearly given Beta Technologies a very clear list of the specifications that we need the aircraft to have before it can be adopted. um you know these aircraft are going to need to fly in pretty inclement weather sometimes they're going to need icing protection they're going to need um you know maximum uh amounts of safety protection as any aircraft would and we want the battery power to be the technology to be as strong as it possibly can as quick as it can and for the batteries to be as light as they possibly can be as well so we want a lot of things in this in this short time frame but things are moving very quickly and evolving in this space and I'm confident that if we can't have everything that we desire we'll get very close.

16:24Final question before we wrap up and that's if other airline CEOs are thinking about the idea of electric technologies maybe engaging with beta or a different manufacturer what would be the advice that you would give them based on your experience so far?

16:41Luke Farajallah: So if anyone else was considering this first thing I would I would suggest is they establish in their own business a use case for it and really understand as we did where this could potentially be put to use then perform a trial if you can because then you become familiar with the company the culture of the company and the type of people who work there which is really important and the technology prove the case for yourselves potentially particularly in the environment that you're wanting to fly in and then i would suggest they give me a call and i'll tell them behind the scenes all of the things that we discussed because this isn't about you know not trying to steal anyone's thunder or limelight that we're all in this together we all want to move to a greener future and I'm happy to share my learnings and the learnings of Loganair and there are extensive learnings already and if I can help in any way I very happily do that.

17:31That's a very generous offer to your colleagues and in terms of the industry coming together for sustainability I remember one One of the standout comments that I remember from you at Farnborough is that the maintenance performance had been breathtaking, that you really had had very few glitches with this and sharing that kind of know-how with your colleagues in the industry could be very useful. Unfortunately, that's all we've got time for today. So we're going to sign off. Luke, first of all, I'd like to thank you so much for your time together. I really appreciate you sharing all of your learning from the trial and from your experiences with BETA so far.

18:06and thank you also to our producers Guy Fernieho, Corrie Hitts and Natalia Palao. And of course, a huge thank you to our listeners for following Window Seat. Make sure you don't miss us each week by subscribing to the Window Seat podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. This is Victoria Moore's Disembarking from Window Seat.