Tinsel Town: or, some Brits attempt to explain panto to the rest of the world

0:05Ho, ho, ho, hello and welcome back to Bah Humbug, the Christmas movies podcast that is really into panto this year. Oh, no, it isn't. Oh, yes, it is. I'm so sorry. Hello, everybody. I'm Helen O 'Hara. I'm your host, as always. And today I'm here to talk about Tinseltown. Tinseltown, wherein a big Hollywood star, through a series of unfortunate events, ends up in a small British town starring as Buttons in a panto production of Cinderella for Christmas. And the star, played by Kiefer Sutherland, finds himself a little bit out of his depth. to talk about this today. First of all, I am delighted to be joined by Corrie Maguire, who is not only a talent agent who knows and has forgotten more about Panto than any of the rest of us will ever know, but also can speak to a couple of plot developments in this film.

0:57Hi, Corrie. How are you doing? Hi, Helen. I'm really well, thank you. Also, absolutely delighted that I don't normally start watching Christmas films until the 1st of December. So being asked to do this in November was like being given permission. Yes. Just to go a bit early. So I'm delighted. Thank you. I feel like this year, Christmas started on November 1st. I feel like everyone got through Halloween and was immediately like, no, I can't do November. We're just going to skip straight ahead. So that's pretty much when I started thinking about these things. Yeah, same. What happens is the market down the road from my house goes from Halloween, so like squid game costumes for a fiver, straight to reeds.

1:33That's it. There's nothing between, unless you're American, there's nothing between Halloween and Christmas. No. May as well just skip over it entirely and keep going. Absolutely. So this film, as I said, has a Hollywood star coming to star in Panto. Now that is in itself not impossible, right? There have been some big names in the last few years doing Panto. Ian McKellen is name checked in the film. He's far from alone, right? It's big business. Oh, totally. And I think that you've only got to look at somewhere like the Palladium. So Michael Harrison and Crossroads doing the Panto at the Palladium.

2:01And that is like a bona fide West End show. You know, Julian Clary, they've had Dawn French. I mean, Nigel Havers is in it, who is obviously a national treasure and absolutely glorious. And I think when I was in America trying to explain to American talent agents why British talent aren't available in December because they're doing panto is like they look at you like you've just done a massive poo on the floor. They're like, what is she talking about? And then as you hear yourself trying to describe what panto is, you think, are we actually insane? Because it makes no sense. Like on paper, it sounds like absolute madness.

2:35I mean, in practice, it's absolute madness. but trying to describe it to Americans is almost impossible. I mean, look, I've heard many stories. I'm sort of stumbling there because I almost said a name and I shouldn't. But I heard many stories of, you know, the kind of marquee names who kind of come in and do these big pantos and their names on the poster. And they're half deaf and half blind and they're being fed lines through their ears. And, you know, you see it and they kind of mime their way through songs because they don't know the lyrics. And I mean, look, partially that's the joy of Panto.

3:02But I think this Kiefer Sutherland thing of turning up, not entirely knowing what he's getting into and then having absolutely no comprehension of what Panto is, is certainly something that's happened repeatedly over the years. So it's not far-fetched, this story for you. This is like all too true. Honestly, like three quarters of the film, I was like, yeah, that would happen. So just for any Americans listening, because you've obviously got experience in this, can you explain Panto? Can you try your best to justify it to the rest of the world? I mean, knowing what the subject of this podcast was, I should have thought about that before we got on the call.

3:36But what is Panto? Panto is, and this is something actually that they say in the film, which I think is very poignant. Panto is, for a lot of kids, their first experience of theatre. And it's sort of rooted in musical tradition. You know, you have the dames, you have the ugly sisters. There's a lot of slapstick comedy. There's the romantic leads, both male and female. There's always a king or some dude collecting taxes. So it's always also been sort of a social commentary of the times as well. And I think very recently, if you look at places like Lyric Hammersmith and Theatre Royal Stratford East, they have quite a political slant to their pantos because they talk about things that are relevant to their audiences.

4:14So that's at the total opposite end of the scale to something like the Palladium, which is let's put Julian Clary on a scooter and cover him in sequins and spend thousands of pounds on his costumes. Both are equally valid. They're just very different. But I think ultimately, what is Panto? So it's a ridiculous, big, silly day out with its roots in comedy and slapstick and music hall. But that has a very important societal role in the sense that it talks about the things that are affecting their audience. And also for a lot of kids will be the only time of year they ever go to the theatre. And I think in that sense, making theatre accessible to kind of parts of the community that wouldn't necessarily feel welcome in those spaces is a lot more important than we give it credit for.

4:57and also financially the money that Panto makes a theatre allows them to be more experimental with their programming you know allows them to take on other projects that they might not necessarily do because they have the financial Panto this year will already have next year's Panto on sale because they want to put that money in the box office because they're going to need it during the year yeah wow I mean that's kind of bleak but also encouraging at least it is supporting the arts like year round outside of Panto itself. What did you think of this Panto production in the film? So we're going to have, just FYI people, we're going to have a quick interview with the director of this film, Chris Foggin, coming up in a few minutes.

5:37But, you know, how did they do making it look and feel like a Panto? Look, I had to look up the theatre that they filmed it in, which was the Theatre Royal in Wakefield. And that is a Matcham Theatre. And the Matcham Theatre is some of the most beautiful theatres in the country. And the minute they did that shot where they're kind of sitting in the red velvet theatre seats. I thought, I wonder where that is. And I think there's a lot of authenticity to what they've done. It really looked like I've sat in those rehearsal rooms and that's exactly what it looks like. And it is exactly what happens.

6:05I think for a film that is quite silly and quite throwaway in a lot of senses, actually the accuracy, and I know I talked about the money Panto makes and kids going to the theatre for the first time, and all of those things are true and they say all of those things in the film. So I think that there is a degree of authenticity that I genuinely wasn't expecting when I watched it. Awesome, awesome. Well, I'm sure Chris will be delighted to hear that, frankly. Tell me about the bits that maybe stuck with you, because there is also there is an agent character in this film. And I'm assuming people have watched it.

6:31I'm just going to spoil a tiny element of the plot here. But she basically stitches up Kiefer Sutherland's character. She knows he won't actually properly read his directions. So she just puts him in panto willy nilly. She doesn't tell him where he's going. She implies he's staying at the Savoy in London. and he's actually staying at the Savoy guest house, presumably in Wakefield or nearby. She then fires him. So he can't really do anything about it and has no comeback. That's maybe less than totally ethical. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is that what agents do typically? It's absolutely unethical, but it's also unrealistic.

7:08I think that's the truth of it. I think certainly we've all had those clients who get a bit too big for their boots and then piss off enough people on the way up that on their way back down, nobody wants to work with them again and there are sometimes quite frank conversations to be had about what opportunities are available to them because of the way that they've behaved in the past should add that katherine ryan superb casting choice she's absolutely perfect for it and i think i'm sure we'll talk about it later but the casting was superb and if anything i wanted the film to be 20 minutes longer because i felt like there were people that i hadn't seen enough of and you know what i'm like with films i come out of films and theater constantly going well there's 20 minutes we didn't need there we could have all have been at home in bed earlier But no, superb casting.

7:49It was Suzanne Scheel, wasn't it? Yeah, Suzanne Scheel. So she also did Billions. So quite frankly, I'll watch anything she's involved in. But yeah, seeing like Mawain Rizwan in there, seeing Asim Chowdhury in there, Catherine Ryan, perfect agent, but also the rest of the cast. If you'd written a dream wishlist, a lot of them I think would have been on it. I mean, Derek Jacoby running the stage door. What more could you ask for? I mean, that was just, I feel like that's a really multi-layered thing as well because you've got this absolutely storied, serious thespian and suddenly turning up in your kind of silly fun light Christmas movie and just almost coming in being a presence throughout but then just killing it in one really emotional scene halfway through yeah I was just like the gravitas just comes out of nowhere and absolutely floors you which is what you want from a Christmas film that's absolutely what you want is you want that little bit in the story that makes you someone's got a little speech makes you a bit teary makes You appreciate all the people around you and all the things that you have, you know, and it's absolute genius.

8:49There were so many things I loved about this film that I was not expecting. It was a real surprise, right? I mean, I'll be honest, I was sitting through the film and I was kind of thinking a lot of the time, does Kiefer Sutherland as Kiefer Sutherland not get it? Or is this the character not getting it? Because we haven't seen him do comedy. He's not one of these guys who goes back and forth between comedy and action and drama. he really is a pretty straight dramatic actor for most of his pretty much all of his career and I genuinely wasn't always sure now Chris says he was into it he was he knew exactly what he was doing but he really nails it as someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on yeah 100 % and I think that watching people I mean I have to be honest Rebel Wilson's accent was extremely distracting I think that I have this theory that the more famous you get the less it matters if you can actually do an accent so if you have like a baby actor client and they're like he must have an american perfect accent and you're like i'm not sending you into this room unless i know it's absolutely perfect but then you look at hollywood stars it's like can you do this accent they go yeah sure and then they take their millions of pounds and turns out they can't just don't the sean connery rule is what you're proposing essentially um but it's the same as my theory on pizza that the more money you pay for a pizza the less cheese you get on it you just get more sourdough and less cheese that's my pizza theory but yeah your question was about whether or not he knew what he was doing a little bit out of his depth at times and I don't know if that was acting or but you know either way I think they were just with him and Rebel Wilson I just sort of felt like they hadn't quite decided exactly tonally what those characters were because they seemed to kind of like waver quite a lot during the film I was expecting her to be much bigger and much sillier and much but maybe that's just my prejudices based on what she's been in before so maybe that was me not being able to expand my horizons rather than them not being able to expand theirs.

10:39I think she did want to try something a bit more dramatic and want to kind of dial it back and show that she has, which she obviously does, have range. But yeah, it was unexpected. It wasn't quite what I was anticipating. And also just having her in a relationship with Danny Dyer, essentially playing Danny Dyer, because why would you not? I mean, I'm a massive Danny Dyer fan and I will literally watch him do anything. If he delivered my post, I'd watch him do it every morning. I think he's a national treasure and he's absolutely superb. And as with a lot of people in this film, as I said, like, I just, I felt they were underused.

11:09But I think they were just rattling through the plot so quickly that they didn't get a chance to give everyone their moment, I think. You know, like Jason Mumford, barely in the film at all. Brilliant, brilliant comedian actor. Yeah, yeah. I have to say, by the way, just to clarify for people, you've been on the Danny Dyer train for a long time. You were there before Rivals. This is not a flash in the pan thing for you. I was there pre-EastEnders. I was a very early adopter. like if I'm sure there is a fan club I should have started that fan club that should have been me one of the great regrets I should have started the Danny Dyer fan club so you did have fun then basically with the film I've really enjoyed it I genuinely really enjoyed it and I'm I think because I see so much theater and because I see so much film there's always a point about sort of 40 minutes into comedy and about an hour and 10 into kind of theater and film where you kind of look at your watch and go right what have we got left to achieve in this film and how long is it going to take and that didn't happen hey that didn't happen I think it just kind of sped towards the end but I sort of wanted a little bit more of everything I can see that the characters here are vivid enough that you're like oh I would like to know more about those two I would like to know more about this one what's going on over here is that there'll be a sequel maybe there will I mean Chris did talk about he's got other Christmas scripts coming in So you never know.

12:24Tinseltown 2, the Northern Massacre. No, that sounds wrong. Okay, so how would you rate this film's levels of Christmassy-ness? Did this deliver the Christmassy-ness that you want from a Christmas movie? Yes and no, in the sense that because it was the first one I've watched this year, it was exactly what I needed. No, in the sense that it's no nativity. That's your benchmark? Yeah, 100%. Nativity is the most festive show of all time. Wow, okay. I'm learning about you today, Corrie. I did not know this. Wow. Oh, Nativity. I think there's three, aren't there? One, two and three. Happily watch all of them in succession.

13:02Genuinely my favourite Christmas films. Well, that was going to be one of my questions, so we'll come to that in a minute. But also, how would you rate this as a film? I mean, I think by being a Christmas film, you get given a certain amount of grace. I'm not a film journalist. I'm not an expert like you and Ollie and the others. But look, all the plot points were there. We kind of rattled through them. Can't fault the direction or the performances. So I don't know, I'm guessing a strong 3.8 stroke four out of five. Fair enough, fair enough. I think I'm somewhere similar. Look, again, we're always grading on a curve for Christmas movies because I genuinely feel like people go into them looking for something else than normal.

13:42There is one, maybe two this year that we're going to be judging by normal film standards. but mostly well we'll get to that later in the series but but mostly I feel like it as Christmas movies go this overperformed that is the main thing I went in with certain expectations and it did better than that and like you say incredible cast like oh look there's Alice Eve oh look there's Trent Crim from The Independent or sorry I realize he doesn't go by that professionally you know it just kind of kept rolling along and kept being fun well thank you so much first of all a couple of questions that I ask everybody on the podcast what is then your favorite Christmas film of all time is it really the nativity marathon nativity one followed by nativity two followed by nativity three in exactly that order first second and third place that is and then we'll also happily watch anything that involves like successful businesswoman realizes there's something missing in her life returns to her hometown opens a bakery the geeky boy she went to school with that's turned into some handsome wood chopping, plaid clad hunk.

14:45And then he helps them realise the tree magic of Christmas and they get married. I mean, it's deeply unfeminist, but I love it. I will absolutely eat that up. You are literally in a small town at the moment. You could live this out, Corrie. You could just go out for a walk with your dog and find some plaid clad hunk around anything. Yeah, I get my... Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. Maybe I need to go to the places where Christmas trees get chopped in order to find the men that do the chopping. Clearly so. Okay, finally, question I ask everybody. Do you have any Christmas traditions that are unusual or unique?

15:17Is there a particular food you have to have every year, a particular bauble that has to go on the tree, a weird time that you open presents or whatever that makes it Christmas for you? so there's a few ollie richards your friend and ours and i go away together quite a lot and we buy a christmas bauble christmas tree decoration from every place that we've been to and i buy two of them so but my mum gets one and quite often my family aren't together for christmas so i know that even if we're not together at christmas we both have the same decorations on our christmas tree horrible 10 out of 10 yeah we do that less adorable and more to do with the fact that i was single for a long time is that come the 1st of november i exist solely on party food i will only eat.

15:54What am I going to have for lunch? Oh, 12 halloumi sticks with hot honey drizzle. Sure. What am I going to have for dinner? Mini camembert Kievs. Absolutely. Yes. So that's more of a kind of selfish one, but that brings me a great deal of joy. Amazing. Well, listen, just before we go, I'm going to introduce the interview with the director of Tinseltown. This is Chris Foggin, who is a delightful, delightful human being. He and I met when he came to Glastonbury with his very first film, Kids in Love, in 2016. And I did a Q &A with him and I think his producing partner on stage and they were lovely.

16:26It was not the most well-attended Q &A ever, but we went ahead, we recorded it for posterity. You can probably find that on the Pilton Palais website if you're very interested. And since then, he's gone on to do things like the Fisherman's Friends films. He's done the Bank of Dave films. He's done This Is Christmas, which we talked about a couple of years ago, which is a fantastic Christmas movie. And now here he is back with Tinseltown. So please welcome Chris. Hello, Chris Foggin. Welcome to Bar Humbug. How are you doing? Honestly, I'm absolutely delighted to be doing this. I am, honestly. As soon as this came through, I was like, yes, I'd love to do that.

17:01I love the podcast. I'm very kind of honoured that you've asked us to do it and very excited to be chatting. Absolutely delighted to have you. So just to tell people, we met on your very first film, which you brought to Glastonbury. Yeah. And so we've known each other a long time now. But yeah, good to see you. And good to see you've made a Christmas movie, so it's eligible for Bar Hamburg. I mean obviously the main reason you made it is to come on Bar Hamburg But tell me how else did this come to you? So I've had a good time working with Sky I love working with Sky And I did actually another Christmas film Which I think you very kindly spoke about on Bar Hamburg as well Called This Is Christmas And obviously it's my favourite time of year And I love making Christmas stuff and Christmas films So Sky came back to me with this script And yeah I just fell in love with it straight away Because obviously I'm from the north I love Panto, brought up on Panto, love Christmas films.

17:53So as soon as they sent it to me, I was like, this is something I'd love to do. Yeah. So did you have to like research Pantos? Did you get into the weeds about which Panto are we going to do in this story? How are we going to approach it? What music are we going to use the whole thing? Yeah. Do you know what? When it was sent to me, it was always going to be Cinderella. And this Brad Mack character was always going to be Buckton. So I knew that. And as I say, like, every kind of year when I'm at home, we'll go to the Sutherland Empire to see Panto. Now, obviously, in terms of bringing it to life, you have to do a lot more research.

18:28And like, it was funny, I remember like kind of blocking one of the particular scenes. And Jason Manford, who's obviously in the film, I'd give some kind of direction where I was like, OK, and you start from the left and come across to see Brad here. But he said, oh, no, the baddies always come from the right, I think it was. So I was still learning very much on the job. I'm not a proud person. So there would definitely be times, you know, even like wonderful actresses like Maria Friedman, who'd done kind of theatre and whatnot. I'd often have an idea and I'd say, oh, this is how I'm going to do it.

18:59But I would make sure that it was in keeping with it. Because the last thing I wanted to do was do something like that, where a character walked on from a stage right or stage left and it was the wrong way to do. So, yes, I'd done my research, but was still very much learning again on the day as well. that's fascinating that I would never have known yeah anything like that that's incredible it's really good so I was very grateful for likes of Jason because he's doing it he's doing panto now and so just learning from that and then I got like an amazing choreographer called Adam who'd done things like wicked and so just like in terms of its blocking I just wanted it to make sure that it felt real and my I haven't quite seen it I'd looked a lot online I've always wanted to go to like London Palladium type panto.

19:42I haven't had the fortune to do that yet. But in terms of any kind of sequences and all that, I try to kind of up it as though it was Palladium-esque set in a northern Yorkshire town, really. Yeah, yeah, because it's an interesting, because you've got to get the right balance, don't you, with this, which is between the kind of, the fact that these people are very good at what they do, but what they do is a bit ridiculous. And it's a bit weird to the outside world. And I think that's one of the nice things about this film, is like there is this thing called panto it's very hard to explain to anyone else for any non-brits listening how do you tend to sum it up to people yeah do you know what you're absolutely right and i think again i hope the film knows what it is but it is just that kind of ridiculousness that only happens once a year and i think what was great about like somebody like kiefer coming in he got the sense of humor and he knew what we were going to try and do with it but i think it's one of those where you know from its jokes to the costumes it just feels as though you're kind of entering into something that is just harmless good natured fun and that's kind of you know like trying to set out to do this is that's what I wanted to do and also just families Helen is you know I was trying to focus on you know the reason I love this industry was because I would watch things growing up as a kid whether that's the home alones or something like that Christmas time was a period of time where I think you get a lot of families together so I was very I'm hopeful and it was like let's try and make something that people can watch and I think that's what Panto does you know you can be like a kid watching it you could be my parents watching it you could be in your 20s and I think it offers people different stuff throughout the show so that was kind of the hope with it and you gave it a bit of heart as well with the Derek Jacoby character and his reminiscences about Panto which I thought were lovely and it's do you know what it is i mean them scenes i was doing with derrick i i remember i almost i get an emotion of myself with them because he speaks from the heart with it and where there was very little note giving in them scenes because he knew what he had to say and he knew what he was saying and i think that's the good thing about what panto does and i and they mention it a few times in the film is that they're so popular and we love them so much but what they do for theaters for the rest of the year kind of help.

21:57So it's just, it's an important time of the year for Panto. But yeah, Derek was just amazing in that to work with, obviously, is a dream. But yeah, he was lovely. Tell me about Kiefer as well, because you mentioned him there and you said he got the sense of humour. He does a very good job of portraying someone who doesn't get the sense of humour. So I thought that was an interesting take. But was he very game? I mean, because this is not something I've seen from him before. Helen, honestly, to this day, I still calm. And there would be times where I would like, you know, the first day of day would say to me, oh, that's Kiefer arriving.

22:28And even, you know, we were shooting for like 30 days, even every day. I was like, this is Kiefer Sutherland coming up, especially when he was like dressed as buttons. I was like, this would be long winded. I apologize. But I remember reading it, Helen, and like anything you get, oh, who would you love to have as Brad? And I remember thinking, I love Kiefer. He would be brilliant at this. But then you go, oh, he's never going to do it. And I think I'm always racked with that as a director. I was like, nobody is rushing to do the next Chris Foggin film. But we're like, oh, well, why don't we just test the waters?

22:57And then literally like two days later, I got a call saying he's read it and he loves it and he wants to chat. And then they were like, can you chat this evening? And I was like, yes. And then I remember getting the Zoom link and then thinking this is either it's seven o 'clock when this starts up. It's either not going to be Kiefer or it will be Kiefer. And he's talking about a completely different script. and the zoom started and it was Kiefer and then yeah he says I get it you know I know the British sense of humor I don't want it to be too daft and stupid I want it to kind of feel a little bit real so we just had lovely conversations but then again then he says I'll do it on the call he's I'm in and I'm like wow is he doing it and then you look then cut to day one I'm stood on set and I've blocked the first scene I'm looking at my handheld monitor and I'm thinking about my days of uni watching 24 or stand by me and i'm like bias key for sutherland his buttons so yeah he was brilliant i loved every second of working with him he's so such a pro and he was excellent to work with it's a really fascinating twist on on you know one of the classic models of christmas movie which is big city girl comes to small town and finds true meaning of christmas your big city girl in this is literal jack bauer like that's yeah that's unusual yeah do you know what i've never thought about like that but yeah you're right he literally arrived into london and i don't know i maybe had a conversation with him where we were filming it but i think maybe there was a moment where he thought we were kind of just going to be in a village outside of london filming it and it was like no you're actually coming up to leeds and we're going to be in knaresborough and weatherby and in the cold and yeah as i say it's still fascinating to me that he was a part of it amazing how about rebel wilson and the accent as well i was really impressed Oh, yeah.

24:46Do you know, well, as somebody from the North, she works really hard at Rebel. We had an amazing dialect coach called Lottie. And it was funny because obviously, I try to do something different with Rebel that we hadn't really seen before. And she was up for kind of keeping it almost like contained. And I remember speaking to her about it and she was like, I'd love to do this. I'd love to test myself as an actress and try the accent. And it is a tricky thing to get. And I know that, as I say, from the North, it's a tricky accent. But she worked really hard at it. And again, she was another like sweetheart to work with.

25:19And same as like the two of them got on really well. And when they set the tone, Helen, you know what it's like on set. Everyone else can kind of she brings a kind of warmth to the floor where everyone's kind of enjoying themselves. So, yeah, it was great. And it was a fun little role for Danny Dyer as well. In his second Christmas movie this season, he's in Christmas Karma. Yeah. Yeah, again, Danny was another one, because it was almost like Danny played, I mean this with complete love, he would say this, it's like, almost like taking Danny and trying to put him in a Christmas movie as kind of Danny.

25:54that's what I wanted to do because I think so many people love him hell and now he feels as though he's kind of worshipped and he's just again, Phil is saying the same stuff but the way he is with the crew and the way he is, he's a director's dream because even if you give him a note that he wouldn't agree with or something, you'll say oh let me try it so yeah, it almost feels like the casting is of a panto itself, you know it's like Rebel Wilson in a relationship with a Cockney geezer from London and yeah, so He was brilliant. It is a really impressive cast because I'd looked at the announcements when it was first made after we talked about it at the Barbican.

26:30And I was like, oh, that's a very good cast. Did that all come around Kiefer? Was he the first one in place? Kiefer was the one. And I think this is credit to Kiefer. And I think when you get somebody like Kiefer and you go out to the agents, it's a lot easier to get people who go, oh, I'll come and do that. And then, yeah, you definitely have their moments where, as a director, you're blocking them. and you're like, this is a big cast. The first day as I keep saying, oh, that's Lucy in Arrive and that's Mira arriving, that's Marie. And then you go, all right, I've got to tell these people what to do.

27:04So yeah, it was great. That's amazing. It's an amazing lineup. So, okay, I have a couple of questions that I have to ask everybody on this podcast. As your first appearance, you're going to have to answer them. First of all, apart from this one, of course, what is your favourite Christmas movie? What do you go to every year? Do you know what? I'm going to say just because of memories of watching it as a kid I'm going to have to say Home Alone 2 there's something and I'm now showing it to my kids it's just nostalgia there's like obviously I'm an elf, there's so many great things but there's something about when I'm asked that I love Home Alone 2 because it was at a time in my life where we would go to the cinema and we would watch it again and again and every year I'll put that on and that scene where she comes back and they look at each other by a Christmas tree, mum and son, I just love.

27:53So it's home alone too. You were actually with John Nugent from the Empire team on that. You were not alone in considering that the superior home alone. Oh, I love that. Amazing. And how about Christmas traditions? Do you have any unusual or unique Christmas traditions that you do in your house? Do you have to open your presents at a certain time or have a particular bauble on the tree or eat a certain food? Yeah, just open presents as soon as we get up and open everything. Oh, I tell you what my main tradition is, which is a bit of a weird one. I have to have mashed potato on my Christmas lunch.

28:25Okay. I just love mashed potato. So mashed potato Yorkshire puddings on a Christmas lunch is my, please, please, wherever we go, can I just have that? Do you add roast potatoes as well or is it just mashed potatoes? I'm happy to have the roast potatoes but if I could just have mashed potato that I can put into a Yorkshire pudding and just then get me spoon and put a tiny bit of gravy on top and then eat that I could actually just have that as a Christmas lunch I don't know what it is and do you know what one time I ate 12 Aunt Bessie Yorkshire puddings I just love Aunt Bessie Yorkshire puddings too but yeah mashed potato and opening me presents as soon as we get up this seems like you've got your Christmas sorted I think that you've got your priorities in the right place yeah having made two Christmas movies now like what have you learned just as much warmth as you can I know like Christmas at times can be a bit of a struggle for some people and so I try to put as much kind of warmth and humour into them as possible and as I say if I can make something that brings families together that's my main goal with it Ellen so yeah I hope we do it I'm terrified for the film to come out but I hope some people enjoy it and some families can get together and maybe I very much doubt it but maybe in someone years time someone says oh what's your favourite Christmas movie and they go Tinseltown and it's not because it's a work of genius they just go oh it was reminded me of a time when I would watch it with my family and so that would be the best hope for it.

29:53That's amazing and what's next for you just to finish up? Do you know what there's bizarrely there's another Christmas film which I've been sent, which maybe this is all I might end up doing. But yeah, I'm hoping as if there's a few things going around, but yeah, hoping something for next year would be great. Amazing. Well, fingers crossed for that. And Merry Christmas. Merry. Helen, thanks so much. I'm honoured to be a part of this podcast. So thanks very much for having me on. And that is it for this episode of Bar Humbug. Join us next time for more Christmas related fun. And a huge thank you to Corrie Maguire.