Begin Again Moments: Co-Parenting

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0:46Davina McCall:This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just$19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. Thinking about you and Zoe as parents, you two have got such, like how brilliant to have such two great role models, but also not the norm, you know, you're both famous. Like, that's quite a mad thing for kids, isn't it?

1:29Davina McCall:Yeah, I mean, well, that was quite a volatile thing, how our children would turn out. And we were definitely living the life, you know, when we first had Woody, we were immersed in... What was life like for you both back then? Chaos. Was it? Absolute chaos, yeah. Yeah, because I'd had this sort of thing of being a musician and everything, and then when I told my manager, he went, you do realise if you, like, if you, so are a couple, He said, your life is never going to be the same. And I said, what do you mean? He said, like, because at that point I was sort of at the top of my powers. At that point she was doing the Radio I'm on Breakfast Show and going.

2:02Davina McCall:I mean, you were both mega. And it's like, put you two together. It's like, this is going to be, you know, and, you know, the whole tabloid thing, which I never really had before. I was just, I was only like band famous. I wasn't tabloid famous. And my manager said, he said, I don't know if it's going to be good or bad. He said, but your life is going to change, you know. I remember watching it as an outsider. and the amount of public scrutiny from the tabloids was, it was relentless. Zoe is so, she was kind of used to it and she talked me through it, but it was, we were both partying a lot and all our friends were partying a lot.

2:38We all were, I mean, you know. But also working really hard, you know, for the first couple of years she was still doing the breakfast show and that, you know, we were being in clubs and people go, Zoe, are you ready? like two arrows yeah yeah yeah um but yeah we knew young you can do them but we were but yeah and then we were so we were juggling both having very successful careers that took up a lot of our time but also partying a lot um but going through it together was great because she is always a really good teacher she was really good she's really measured and she's kept me really down to earth she's like you don't you know don't forget to say thank you to them you know and don't forget we had this tremendous adventure together and kind of went to a place went to a place probably that we never could have gone on our own it was like the the the careers and arm thing the the sum of the two parts when we became this or power couple so she was and still is you know we're still really good friends and I think our triumph is to remain really good friends and parents even

3:41Davina McCall:though we're not a couple anymore and can i just say hats off well i think well done because that is quite a difficult one it's hard it's quite a difficult one but luckily we we've sort of found a way it was a bit awkward at first but then we've got this rhythm where we're now we i think we're really good we're probably actually better than we were when we were a couple but we've brought up we're very proud of the two kids we brought up and i'm quite proud of the parents we and that and that we're as firm friends as we ever were. Sometimes, especially in midlife, you can get into a relationship and get a bit stuck and realise that you've slightly grown apart but you're just kind of coexisting and people get stuck there because you're paying a price whatever you do.

4:24Or when their relationship inevitably breaks up, you get acrimonious and then you start playing games with each other and bitterness and grudges and if that then starts rubbing off on your job as parents, then for me that's, you know, that was the thing we just said. It's like whatever happens can't affect the kids and everything has to be about them. But that doesn't necessarily mean staying together for the kids. A lot of people just stay together. I mean, my parents lived at the opposite end of the house for the last few years of my life. But, yeah, I think it's so important. It's just getting over, you know, when you break up with someone there, you've been a couple, it's hard to readjust, but you just have to get over the petty bits and the things.

5:13And I've seen so many of my friends, and they're just ripping each other apart. Yeah, it's so sad. And they're ripping the kids apart as well. And, yeah, I think it's, you know, when you sign on to be parents, that's for life. Sign on for marriage, you can get divorced, but you can never stop being parents.

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6:13Davina McCall:It checks your blood three times a year, including lots of things many of us have never even been tested for. And then it explains what your body is telling you clearly and calmly and then gives you a weekly plan with an in-app coach so you know what to do next. Not more worry, it's a way forward. Go to dohealth.co slash beginagain and use code BEGIN AGAIN to lock in early access pricing. How did you meet Charles? At work, yeah. I was his boss, strictly speaking, because I became news editor in the late 1990s. and he was the technology correspondent or science and technology. And I just thought, oh, he's a good person.

7:05He's really smart. There was a huge round of redundancies going on. So it felt like every three months would be in the pub saying goodbye to a bunch of people. And then we kind of built our relationship from there and everything changed, you know, as you know. it is a even if it's done amicably which mine was it is such a dislocating thing to live through because it's a shift of your identity totally there is something to do with walking into a room and people knowing even if he's not there that you are a wife or a missus or you know you are a partner to somebody and then to go in by yourself is somehow really hard and there's some people who find it very difficult that you've done this and so I was sort of quite shocked by some people's reactions and that's always a funny thing isn't it oh yeah other

8:06Davina McCall:people's reactions to your divorce is such a strange especially if you are a woman who works hard and is visibly successful because it's automatically down to you it's um it's your fault for not being more present or for not working harder and the one thing I all I can tell you is that I work hard at everything relationships you know some things just end and you know nobody needs to know more than that but I you know we discussed earlier on that you and I shared a divorce lawyer. One of my proudest possessions is the email she sent me after I got divorced saying I wished all couples could handle it with the grace and kindness that you two showed each other.

8:51And my ex-husband is still my friend and we speak every week and he has Christmas with us.

8:55Davina McCall:So I would really like to just ask for your top, you know, it can be three, it can be four, it can be five, whatever, bits of advice for anybody watching this who is getting divorced. Yeah. because you never hear that, that couples, and often it might start, oh, we're going to be amicable, and then it's not, and you've done it. How did you do it? Okay, the very, very first thing is never marry a man you wouldn't want to be divorced from. Wait, what? So are they a kind person? Do they treat people with respect? Do they talk badly about their exes? all these are key indicators of how that person is going to be about you once you're no longer that i can i say something go on you've literally blown my mind i have never heard that don't marry a man that you wouldn't be prepared to be divorced like or you wouldn't want to be divorced from like like i don't mean that like you're not thinking about divorce you're not thinking about divorce but it's like if you were in conflict with this person how do you think they would behave yes this that is the most because that is who they are at their core right are they a good person is what you're saying yes and my ex-husband is a good person that's amazing okay so the second biggest one is just it's actually not about you it's about your kids you've made a decision yeah that is going to profoundly affect them even the best divorce is going to have a negative effect on them and you have to acknowledge that and so even when your ex you might want to kind of stick pins in a dolly or you know you kick the wall or whatever you don't do it in front of the kids nothing they get none of it absolutely none of it get some therapy get a best friend punch a pillow whatever none of this is going to your kids because even if you are tight-lipped and polite about your ex they will feel it yeah they will pick up on every by vibration.

11:02So I would also say, pick your battles. Like, does it really matter? I mean, I had dinner with Catherine Bedford, this divorce lawyer, and she was telling me about how, you know, some people will literally bankrupt themselves over who gets the guinea pig. And you have to just say, does this really matter? Does it matter? And one of the other really important things was when we divided up the things in the house although there were things that I loved that I let go of and we'd agreed that any family heirlooms should stick with but I wanted the kids when they went into his house to see things they recognized and to feel like they were at home I wanted them to be comfortable and I think he felt the same way so we were generous with each other at every point I mean that sounds very healthy Yeah, I'm not going to say it was fun.

11:55No, of course, but you'd be still married if it was. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not meant to be fun, but you did do it in a respectful way. And because he was a good man, we were able to talk honestly. And at a point when some lawyers were advising me not to be honest with him, I was honest with him and trusted that he was still essentially the person that I'd married 22 years earlier. And so it was. And so now we talk about stuff all the time. And, you know, not just the kids. We'll still check in with each other. We buy each other birthday gifts. He is part of my family.

12:29I'm not married to him anymore, but he's the father of my kids. I want them to be able to come to me if they've got concerns about something that's going on with him and not feel, oh, God, can't talk about dad. And, yeah, he has been, yeah, he's someone who will always be in my life. and I never have any regrets about having married him because he gave me the three best kids in the world and I'm not sure I would have had the career that I had without the way he was with me and my career if I'm honest.