Begin Again Moments: Female Fantasy & Asking For What You Want | Gillian Anderson & Cindy Gallop

0:00Davina McCall:You said about sex education being a kind of stepping stone to want and I really want to get to want. Yeah. How did want come about? What was your thinking and how was it born? It actually in the first instance wasn't my thinking at all. It was my literary agent who had come across her mother's copy of My Secret Garden. Oh, wow. Yeah, so she had... So let's talk about My Secret Garden. Yeah. For anybody that doesn't know what it is, because I think actually they should all go and buy it. Yeah. If they haven't read it. They've just republished it. And that's thanks to you. Yeah. They're probably very happy about that.

0:49So could you just explain what My Secret Garden is? So Nancy Friday was an author in the 70s and she decided that she was going to put together, she was going to ask her friendship group and her community to write in sexual fantasies to her anonymously. And she would publish them under the name My Secret Garden. and so it was you know a relatively small uh community cross-section of women but there were um some really really raw moving sexy um some dark some beautiful uh very powerful letters in the book that she published and it was it was a bestseller it was uh you know i'm sure it was banned in various places um but it was uh incredibly uh successful in europe and in the states and uh very often women would buy it and and uh and hide it in their bags or under their

1:55Davina McCall:beds or yes i mean i bought men in love which was the men's fantasies but by nancy friday and it was an under the duvet job yeah yeah it would have been so shameful whereas this on the other hand is like say it loud say it proud yeah have it on the coffee table which is so brilliant Gillian yeah anyway yes so so so my my literary agent because I'd been I since sex education I'd been asked uh or my agent had been asked whether by publishers various publishers whether I'd be interested in doing a a book talking to sex therapist or a book as if I were a sex therapist writing to women about you know sex or whatever and I'm not even sure whether she passed on any of those those requests to me but then she had an idea of um when she saw her mother's copy of my secret garden she thought actually this is interesting what if instead she were to do a modern day version of My Secret Garden and, you know, and show how far we've come or not between, you know, 2025 or 2024 when we published it and 73, which is when Nancy's Bridey's book came out.

3:18And then when I started to talk to her about it, what I was interested in, different from what Nancy did was to, because of, you know, the age that we live in, put a very wide call out. I was really interested in having as many women from as many places around the world as possible to represent representation of women, differently abled women and trans women and binary people and um and so it's you know it is that and um and so we put the call out through bloomsbury they created a portal and um and we got i think 1800 submissions in the in the month that we had the portal in the month yeah yeah i mean that's mad yeah and not all the submissions were finished they you know they were started I think in the end we had about if I'm remembering correctly we had about 900 um which I'm quite grateful it wasn't more than that because it takes quite a long time to read I think that was about the equivalent of about 800 ,000 words or something yes um and uh and so that really led to this book and um and I wrote the introduction and to the book and to the different chapters.

4:44We put the letters into chapters. And...

4:49Davina McCall:Did you go back and read Secret Garden again? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did you compare? I compared to the... Well, yes, I compared.

5:04I don't think I'd realized, you know, because I kind of skimmed it for sex education just in terms of thinking along the lines of that world and how open my character gene was. But it wasn't until I started working on this book that I properly went back and read it cover to cover. And I was shocked at how, and how raunchy some of it is. You know, there's part of me that, you know, could just completely stereotype, you know, but wanted to, you know, put ladies in the seventies into boxes of, of, they must have, surely they were more prim and proper than, than we are today. but there are some doozies in there.

5:56And so that was fascinating. I was assuming that our letters were because of the degree to which porn is such a big part of society today because of how much sex. We see it everywhere. We see it everywhere, magazines, on telly, on our phones. And it feels like it is so at our fingertips. I had assumed that conversation around it or the concept of fantasy and desire, and particularly women's desire, was going to have properly moved on. Yes. and it hasn't as much as I would have thought that it would have because I mean I think there's you know there are there's a lot still about it's not it's not just about shame it's not just about shame about you know the fact that we even have fantasies or even shame to admit that there is a fantasy that that one might think about when either masturbating or having sex but the biggest one for me was was you know shame around the very idea of talking about it with one's partner or even asking for what you might want in the bedroom I think I think what's interesting about asking a partner is this idea that you are telling them a fantasy the idea of a fantasy is that it's not

7:42Davina McCall:going to happen it's it's a fantasy because it's something that is safe you can think about it yeah it might happen if you if you both yeah say okay well we've talked about this for a couple of years like do you would you like to try and make this happen yeah or a couple of months whatever but actually genuinely a fantasy really is is a fantasy and it's safe yeah because it's something that you're thinking about but you have to have that conversation before with your partner to say please don't shame me when I tell you this it's taking a lot of courage for me to tell you this thing and I really need you to like be the same with me after I've told you not change in any way because I think women feel unsafe sharing sometimes oh yeah yeah and and you know on the one hand I I'm sure I'm sure that men do too because they go this is this is silly or this is it yes you know if they knew that this is what goes through my head if it's something from the office you know yeah your your your wife or girlfriend might be absolutely hideous to that person from the office when they see them next yeah the office drinks at Christmas or something like that one like not even want you to go to the office yes Christmas party yes or whatever But I think what was remarkable about the book and the conversation that it started was because of the courage of the women who submitted the letters and the fact that not only were the readers being able to see, you know, there are people out there too who have thoughts and desires and feelings like I do.

9:28or oh my gosh mine is nothing like what is out there or you know but to me almost even more importantly is is this thought process which is hang on a second there is something that I think about but I've never actually even thought about it as fantasy and if I were to want something what would that actually be? And in fact, while I'm in the process of asking myself what it is that I might actually want, do I actually even like the sex that I'm having? Am I satisfied with the sex that I'm having with my partner? And if I'm not, how am I complicit in that and if I'm complicit in it why don't I feel like I can talk about it is that me or is that them and if it is me why don't I try it and if it's them I need to think about that and have that conversation yeah this is this is amazing yeah why do I feel uncomfortable is it because I know that they're going to feel judged.

10:52I know they're going to think that, oh, my God, it's been so long and I've always been doing it this way and they actually want it this way. I know that, you know, all of these things. Or there's going to be some form of, you know, backlash or judgment or, you know, whatever it might be. It's so complex. But then there's another part of the thought process, right? I just say, this is gold.

11:17Davina McCall:like I can see people listening to what you've just said and having literal light bulb moments well there's a bigger light bulb I don't know if I can handle that the bigger light bulb is if I'm not able to ask for what I want of the person I've been married to for 25 years does that have any link to why I'm not able to ask for what I want in the work that I do and the raise that I've been thinking about asking for or actually to assume that I might be talented at this other thing that I haven't gone after because I've been kind of wrapped up in doing this and being this for this person or whatever you could change your whole life Do you know what's amazing?

12:06I now totally understand why you called it want.

12:12Davina McCall:I've got goosebumps. It's big. Yeah, it is big. It's massive. It is. Yeah. And I've had women come up to me completely unexpected. I didn't expect the reaction that we've had, and I didn't expect that these were the types of conversations that we'd be having. But I've had women come up to me and say, this has changed my life. Looking for the best place to shop this Mother's Day? Go with the brand that makes it easy to send something thoughtful to everyone on your list. 1-800-Flowers.com. Right now at 1-800-Flowers, order one dozen roses and get another dozen free. More flowers mean more smiles, all backed by the quality, attention to detail, and trusted delivery experience that make 1-800-Flowers my top choice to send something beautiful mom will love.

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13:49Davina McCall:Give it a try, download Salee in the App Store or by scanning the QR code that's on your screen right now. And for a cheeky 15 % off your first purchase you can use the code DAVINA at checkout. That's DAVINA for 15 % off. In a relationship sometimes women don't feel they have a voice or if something is suggested it's like oh I have to go along with this. How do women find their voice and verbalise their desires and if they should they if there was somebody they really love and they want to try something and the girls are a bit like oh my god I'm a bit nervous. Should they give it a go? Should they not give it?

14:35Davina McCall:Like what do they do? Sure. So first of all, I'm biased because obviously I designed a solution to this. But I want to say that, you know, what girls and women tell us when they watch Make Love Not Porn, because what they are seeing there is orgasm equality. I mean, equal everything. One young woman left a comment on one of our videos saying, after watching this video, I felt so enabled and empowered in my own sexual agency. Thank you for this gift. we give girls and women sexual agency that's a great expression isn't it just i mean that they see how they can choose the sex they want ask for the sex they want to have the sex they want and and again all of it boils down to i mean i mean the the you know one word answer to your question is communication and yes you absolutely should communicate because you were just saying yes we want to they should have the sex that they want to get the sex but what about the sex that they don't um same deal communication okay so so essentially if if somebody is doing something that you do not like yes absolutely stop stop and and have a conversation about it and and you know it is ironic how difficult people find this but you know um to use my own example just to reassure our listeners so I um you know as as you know I date younger men and I absolutely encountered that moment where you're in bed with somebody and he breaks out the porn moves okay and I go okay we're gonna have to have a conversation and I am fully aware that you know what do you what do you sorry just quickly just so that people know what we're talking about when you say porn moves it's something that was he probably saw in a porn movie but that's not very connected or I mean basically you know if someone by the way the obvious example because it's absolutely happened to me is non-consensual choking okay which I'm not having any of by the way at all but um but also if it's sort of ridiculous positions or you know um um or or anything you don't particularly want to happen um I'm fully aware that you know I think to myself right the moment I say something the atmosphere in bed is going to change but I have to have this conversation for every other woman he will ever sleep with.

16:57Oh wow that's a nice also a nice way of looking at it. And the key thing here is first of all when you actually speak up and talk about what you want to do and the key thing by the way Davina is I always do it as positive reinforcement okay so I go what you want you know what would really turn me on is if you stop doing that and why don't we do this whatever but but but but essentially it's you know this is really hot and it's going to be even hotter if we right um so first of all um i have never ever had a bad response when i've broached that conversation because fundamentally everybody wants to be good in bed yes no one knows exactly what that means yeah so i found people are really open to right you know i'm going to learn something here um and she's saying it'll be even hotter if i do this and that's you know bring it on and then And secondly, it is actually very sexy to talk about sex in bed with the person you're having it with while you're actually having it.

17:58Because this is and the term dirty talk does not do it justice because dirty talk is often taken to mean like forbidden words. Literally, talking in bed is fantastic because there's nothing hotter than going, I love it when you do this. And if you do this to me, then it'll be even better. And that's a real turn on in itself. You know, I think I said this last time we spoke, the single biggest turn on in the world is to be in bed with somebody and know they're having a bloody amazing time because of you. And people are really open to conversations that are making sure that is the case. And by the way, you know, I think people are also open to the fact that this is a chance to add to their own sexual repertoire in a way that can only benefit them.