Begin Again Moments: Life After Loss With Richard E. Grant and Prue Leith

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1:24Richard E. Grant:In exactly the same way that I started keeping a diary when I was 10, and have continued to do so, I now write to Joan every night. And I have no woolly spiritual delusion that she's hearing this or that I'm going to get a response. But I know in writing to her, it somehow makes, it keeps the connection going. because I know what her response would be. Do you write Dear Joan? Yeah. So I write emails to her. I write in an email form in a diary. But, you know, Dear Joan, today that this happened, this would really have amused you. I think we should do this. So it's somehow it makes it feel like that person is still there.

2:11Richard E. Grant:It's an ongoing conversation. Sorry, I interrupted you. No, don't. Do you not feel that she's still there? No. She's gone? Yeah. I mean, she's inside me and in my daughter and in the memory of our friends. And I've got photographs of her around the house. But I don't, my father was unequivocal about saying that heaven and hell are human concepts. And everything is the here and now. We only have one life. Nobody's come back. And I haven't been able to find a better theory than that. So I take great comfort from the fact that it is how life has been completed in the same way that all the other people that I know and have never come back.

2:57Richard E. Grant:So I have no...I'd like to have had faith that somehow when you die I'm going to see all the pets and the people that I've loved in some other space. But I don't have any delusion that that is going to take place. And I find that reassuring. So are you reassured now about the end of your life? Yeah, yeah. And she said to me, would I bury her ashes underneath a cherry tree that we've got in this cottage in Gloucestershire? And that's the one thing that I have not been able to do. I've still got her ashes in the box that they came in. They're your sister's sister. I can't bring myself to do that.

3:42Richard E. Grant:And I know that people said, well, that's her last wish, but it might not be her actual ashes. I said, that doesn't really matter. It's just that is the last thing that I have of her physically. And I just can't bring myself to do that because I think, well, if I sell this house or there's a rainstorm in the mud, illogical stuff. So I think just better to keep this in the box. I don't think it's illogical at all. Well, she asked that they be buried in the garden. But I do understand, I understand you saying if there's rain or like if we sell, like then she's left there. But that's, that's not practical.

4:23Richard E. Grant:It's just an emotional thing. Still stopping you from doing that, isn't it? Sentimental old fool dot com. Yeah. It's very interesting those last minutes because I kept just telling my sister that I was gonna be okay Oh, did you? I knew she was worried about that Like, don't worry about me I'm gonna be okay Like, you can Because she looked after me so much Yeah Emotionally So when you said that to her, what was her reply? There wasn't one because she was She was kind of put to sleep Oh, she couldn't talk anymore? No But I think they said she can still hear Yeah, apparently hearing is the last sense or whatever to go.

5:12Richard E. Grant:Because Joan said to my daughter and I four days before she died, I know that you're going to be sad, but try and find a pocket full of happiness in each day, which was a brilliant mantra to bitch to live by. Well, you wrote your book? Yeah. A pocket full of happiness. So tell me, what did she mean by that? She, I think more than anything, she said, I know that you will be sad, but every single one of us, including you two, are going to die. So without saying it, what is built into that little phrase is don't have any guilt about feeling joy or happiness after I'm gone. And that has been an amazing thing, not to feel guilt of thinking, my goodness, this Christmas pudding tastes fantastic.

5:58Richard E. Grant:Oh, but Joan's not here. No, but it still tastes fantastic. Yeah, to really embrace what you have and not, oh you've got to walk around in a quagmire of grief for the rest of your life. I think that's really good. Does that speak to the kind of person that she was? Yeah, yeah she's very pragmatic and also, you know, philosophical about that you've You've got to enjoy yourself. Otherwise you're going to be walking around in widow's weeds, widow's weeds for the rest of your breathing days. That's not good either. But how were you after she died?

6:46Richard E. Grant:You think, you feel that you're never going to be able to fully breathe again because it's so, you know, it's like an anvil's been stuck on your chest and that you're not going to be able to walk. I think more than anything I felt like a crab or a tortoise or a turtle that your shell has been taken off, that you're so vulnerable that you can be just squashed by anything. And you can't imagine that your life can ever normalize again. And people always say, you know, time will heal or time will tell or all these cliches that come out with. So it's a sort of day by day adjustment. I don't, you know, four years on from her death, I don't wake up and think, oh, Joan's dead today, which I had done for so long.

7:42Richard E. Grant:And the wonderful trick of memory is that, I don't know whether you've had this, but I've experienced in the last six months a recalibration of it that when I remember her now I remember her in full health. I don't remember her when she was what she looked like and was like when she was ill and if I look at photographs again of it I'm really taken aback of how altered somebody is by disease. Do you have you had that experience with your sister? I definitely just think of my sister in root health. In root health, yeah. Completely normal, yeah. And how long did it take for you to have that? About probably five years, I would say.

8:25Richard E. Grant:Yeah. And do you feel guilt at all about the fact that you're living and she's not? No. No? I never have. Good. Mm.

8:45Sorry.

8:50Sorry.

8:57Weren't we lucky?

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9:34Prue Leith:I was 70 when I met John, and he was 64. We were very set in our ways. He did a life in fashion and designing clothes. How did you meet? We met in a friend's house and it was quite funny because the woman who I – a friend and I were taking – were sharing a cab to get back from Halifax to go to, for her to go to this party and for me to go home. And I said, let's drop me first because I'm on the way. And she said, no, I'm in such a hurry because I've got – it's such an important dinner party and my sister and I are giving it and it's me and her giving it so I have to be there and she was panicking and very jumpy about this dinner party.

10:26Prue Leith:So I said, all right, so we dropped her and she said, come in for a drink. And I went in and this dinner party was a table for four with candles and champagne and beautiful lighting and all flowers. and it was an obvious set-up for four people. Right. And these were two sisters who were giving the party and John was one of the... So he was being match-made with one of the sisters. Yes, he was definitely to be... He was designed for one of them. Either of them either, I think. Was it an instant attraction? Not for me. I felt such a gooseberry that I just wanted to get out. You've got that conversation when you know you shouldn't be there.

11:11Prue Leith:And so I wasn't concentrating at all and I didn't listen to anything he said. But apparently I told him that I was going to Canada, which I was, on a book tour. And so the next day, this guy arrives. I'm so unobservant that I thought he was driving a quad. It was a big machine. Yes. It was a sort of farmer's quad. Yeah. And he said, oh, I brought you a letter. I thought you'd gone to Canada. So I said, I'm the guy from last night. So wait, he saw you. He thought you'd gone to Canada. He wrote you a letter and came to your house to deliver it. Yes, yes. Wow, heen. Yeah, I think he and said, the letter said, I know you're in Canada, but I just wanted to tell you where I live and also suggest we have a walk with our dogs because we talked about our dogs when I come back.

12:11Prue Leith:So I said, well, let's go now. In fact, I met him because just as I walked out of the front door with my secretary, my PA, we walked out together. We were going to walk the dog around the field. So I said, well, we're going to walk the dog around the field. Why don't you come too? Which I don't think was what he had planned. When he said, let's walk the dog together, he wasn't quite meaning with someone else and with my PA. Anyhow, the three of us walked around the field. And Francisca, my PA, very quickly got the message that she was the good sweetheart. So she went off. He came in for a drink and she went off.

12:52Prue Leith:And you know that thing when you fall in love and you just talk all night? Yes, yes. It's so exciting. And he was chattering away. I realize now he was quite nervous because I know him well enough. But he seemed to me totally confident. And he was just talking about history. I mean, I remember him walking up and down. I was sitting on the sofa and he was walking about. And he was talking to me about traveling and why he loves it. And he loved traveling, right? He does love it and so do I. And then we went out to dinner. And then he said, will you come to my house and I'll cook you dinner? And I thought, oh, he could cook.

13:35Prue Leith:Wow. When I got there, he cooked me haggis. And you know haggis, nobody has to cook haggis, it comes ready-made. It must have been the first ready meal because nobody would want to actually cook haggis. So you just heat it up in the microwave. So it haggis and bashed neeps because he's a Scot. Right. And of course, I love that and it was absolutely delicious. So he always said, well, it worked because she stayed for breakfast. And unfortunately, it was the last thing he cooked for me because the next time, also that first couple of weeks, we were talking about beef, what was the best beef. And I was so impressed because he bought some Dexter steaks.

14:22Prue Leith:Decks are a wonderful breed. They're a bit like Aberdeen Angus, but they're much smaller. Right. And they're very flavorful, but they're quite small. Anyhow, they had two fillet steaks, Dexter fillet steaks. I mean, nobody buys fillet steaks anymore. They cost an arm and a leg. So I was really impressed that he had bought two fillet Dexter steaks. And he put the frying pan on the heat and he put a blob of butter in it and it was just beginning to melt. and then he put the steaks in and I just jumped it. I mean, there's only one rule about steaks. You get the hat. First of all, it's not a good idea to use butter straight away because it burns.

15:10Prue Leith:You need to get a little bit of oil and get it so hot that the pan is absolutely smoking so that you get that lovely sear and the juice doesn't run on the steaks. And then you can put some butter in. Anyway, I was just so anxious. I mean, I wasn't thinking about him. I was just thinking about, they're the best steaks in the world and you're ruining them. But I pushed him out of the way and I cooked the steaks. Sorted it. So I've been cooking him since. No! That was the last thing. You've made a rod for your own back. Yeah, but I don't care. Actually, I love cooking. And if you asked him what he lives on, he'd say leftovers.

15:50Prue Leith:I do remind him that, you know, the only reason there are leftovers is because I must have done some prime cooking at some point. Because leftovers from what? Yes, exactly. How long have you two been together now? 16? Yeah, 15. 15 years? Something like that. I mean, you know what's really nice, Prue? What? Is that when you talk about him, it's like you're talking about a new love. You look happy and excited. He's a lovely guy. He's a lovely guy. And I'm very lucky. I mean, not many people have one happy marriage, never mind two. And I had a really – my first marriage was really happy. To Rain.

16:31Prue Leith:Rain. He was a lot older than me, and so I always knew he'd die before me because he was 20 years older than me. But he was a wonderful man, and I'm so lucky to have had him for 25 years. And then I had eight years. I didn't like widowhood. That's not that. No. You've lived an incredibly varied life. You know, you've done, you've had two husbands and you loved both of them. It wasn't like you fell out of love in a divorce or anything like that. And you've experienced great love twice in your life, which is extraordinary. And then... Lucky. Yes. How many people get one? No, not many. Not many people have one.

17:18You know, it's really something else. And two children who've brought you such joy and then such an incredible career. And I was...

17:29Prue Leith:I often think, Davina, you know, it's... I just do think that I deserve the sword of Damocles to knock me on. I mean, I should... It's not fair that I've had so much luck. Did you know if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees? Get ahead of summer with custom window treatments like solar roller shades from Blinds.com and save up to 45 % off during the Memorial Day Early Access Sale. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro handle everything, we've got you. Free samples, real design experts, and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 45 % off site-wide right now during the Early Access Memorial Day Sale at Blinds.com.

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