Bobbi Brown: This is What Starting Over at 60 Really Looks Like

29:37You know, he is like he wanted, I did say no to him tonight. He wanted to go to the theater at seven o 'clock tonight. I'm done working at six. I didn't sleep well last night. Yeah. And I just, I didn't even know what play it was. I just was like. But also I think that's like you've got to take care of yourself. Yeah. And if you can't take care of yourself mentally, physically, then you can't take care of anybody else, right? That's 100 % true. When you're a matriarch. Right. But as a working makeup artist mom, I would have to, no matter what, turn myself like this. Like I'd be in a store during a personal appearance and there's hundreds of women, you know, taking pieces of you and the makeup artist.

30:23and then my husband would come in with the babies on the stroller, I couldn't just say, I'm tired, I want to lay on the floor. I just had a, you know, I had obligations that I wanted to meet, which was to be a mom and to be a partner to my husband. He wanted to go do something, I went. And it did end up giving me like infusion being with the family and being quote unquote normal, right? Because when you're in an event and you've got all these people pining over you. Quite mad, right? And it's not normal. No. You know, you do it. I mean, you know the feeling. And then when it's done, you're like, you're depleted.

30:59Depleted. So, Bobbi Brand Cosmetics. Yes. You've heard of them? Yes. So how was that born? And was it like, actually, do you know, I want to expand. I can do more. No, I never said that. What did you want to do? It just happened. How did it just happen? Well, we launched in Bergdorf Goodman. You know, the story is, which I could tell in my sleep, is we thought we would do 100 lipsticks the first month. Yes. We did 100 the first day. Yeah. All right. So it was a moment, you know, and then we started this little company and then we it was doing so well at Bergdorf. We added lip pencils. Then Neiman Marcus asked us to go there.

31:48And we just started. I was still a working makeup artist. I was still a commuting mom in New Jersey. It was pretty exhausting. My husband had gone to law school because he was in the real estate market and it crashed. And he was like, I have to get a job. And I just looked at him. I said, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I can't imagine you having, you know, one of those jobs with your, an overcoat and a, you know, a briefcase standing at the bus or the train. I'm like, no way. So he went to law school, which turned out to be a great thing. But so I kept working because we had to pay the mortgage.

32:25Yeah. Yeah. And so it organically just expanded. It organically expanded. It did. You know, it did. And then, I mean, I've never stopped being a makeup artist. Yeah. Because it's really my passion. It's what I love. I think one of the things that I've noticed with people that I've spoken to is the anguish that people go through having called their business their own name. and then eventually at some point having to let go of the love, care, and attention that you would put into your business with your name. But even if it was called Green Couch, I would still feel the same angst I felt. Oh, really?

33:02Do you think so? Yeah, I do. I do. Because it's still, what's the difference, okay? You know, the good news, it was in my name, and I am still that person. So, you know, it was very strange at first. But I never felt bad that I sold my name. I never I never I know what what I was doing I I've I I kind of didn't really mean about you selling your name I think what it was was that you had so many things that you would never do with your business that was your name oh no that was hard yeah that was hard I mean that was really just the end of my um working there because for most of the years I was so in control can we can Can we go back to when Estee Lauder did kind of come to you?

33:49So you literally started properly Bobby Brand Cosmetics kind of four and a half years before. Right. And you got to a point where... We were beating them in the stores. We had the number one line. And it was all the rage. You know, it wasn't all the... There was no such thing as an indie makeup brand. Yeah. So it was us. You know, and maybe I think MAC was in the market back then. And Lauder had bought half a MAC. and I thought oh well we're never going to sell to Estee Lauder and then Leonard called and Leonard was the most divine human being had you ever met him no I never got to meet him but I've heard about him just incredible yeah and so you know we sold to Leonard and with a 25-year non-compete so I want to I mean I need to unpick that because that is when you think about that now Now that's absolutely nuts, isn't it?

34:39They don't do it anymore. No. And that you had basically sold very well. We didn't need to talk about numbers. Right. You sold very well. And they put in this extraordinary. So let's just explain to anybody that's non-competent. It means for me it meant that I couldn't do anything. in beauty at all until my non-compete was up. So we're not just talking makeup. We're talking about anything. In beauty. No, in beauty. So, you know, and if there was something I wanted to use my name, I would need their permission. So, you know, that was, you kind of feel like you got handcuffs. But I also understand that by us selling the company to them, my husband and I have been able to send like 25 kids to college.

35:36Tell me about that. Yeah. Well, you know, our kids, our nieces and nephews, and then we started a foundation for, you know, helped a couple kids go through college. Tell me a bit more about your foundation because that is a wonderful thing. Well, it's not a real thing. It's just us, you know, when something comes up and it feels right, we offer to pay for college or whatever. That's an extraordinary gift. Right. I don't want people sending me letters because it's really not a foundation. You are never too old to learn something new. I used to be so terrified of tech, but I started using Adobe Express, which is the quick and easy create anything app.

36:14And it's one of our sponsors too. And I use it to tell my story my way. It's about impact. Havina? Yes? Did you mean to export this poster of Michael to such a large size? Yes. as i was saying it's never been easier to bring your ideas to life yes just checking these stickers that say really to wear they're also for you too yes those are for me merchandising is an important revenue stream i work with stephen bartlett you know i'm an entrepreneur look whatever your business side hustle or random oh i've got an idea moment is adobe express gives you everything that you need to design it, share it and make it real.

37:03So head to adobe.ly slash Davina to get started. Did she really use the generative AI to turn back at some day jokes? She loves Adobe. I'm glad you've joined me for today's lecture. And today I'm going to tell you how to age disgracefully. Tell naughty jokes. Dress outrageously. Flirt outrageously. And take your collagen. So when I say take your collagen every day, I don't mean putting a little bit of cream on at night. I mean taking true collagen by our sponsors, Ancient and Brave. They did a trial where 60 women were involved and all of them noticed a difference. They had an improvement in their skin elasticity and a reduction in their fine lines and wrinkles.

37:50Win! So what really, really sets Ancient and Brave apart isn't just their award-winning products. it is their absolute commitment to sustainability. They're a B Corp and proud members of 1 % for the planet. So that means that 1 % of their profits, which in fact they've just up to 2%, goes to helping environmental causes. So if you want to give them a try, head to ancientandbrave.earthslashplanet and if you want 20 % off your order, use code BEGIN AGAIN. um so it changed you know your life other people's lives in a in a in an amazing way but i really enjoyed um reading about the um kind of conversation that you guys had about okay so this non-complete compete what does it mean to us and you were talking about your age right and how can you just explain to everybody the kind of thought process that went through like should i sign this or not?

38:48Well, you know, I thought about it for a second. My husband said the deal's done. All the terms are agreed upon. However, they want you to sign a 25-year non-compete. And I never even heard of a non-compete. Who would ask me not to work? And 25 years, I started counting on my fingers. And I'm like, oh, I'm not going to want to work when I'm in my 60s. And I was like 59 and a half when I left the company yeah on the verge of 60. And isn't it funny when we're younger it's like I think for you and I in our generation 60 was retirement yeah I was the same I'm I'm heading I'm very close to 60 there's no way I'm stopping like I can't imagine that now And 60s are better than 50s.

39:37Yeah, and because I enjoy it, right? Like I'm really having – is it better than 50s? I've had such a good time in my 50s. Yeah. Poppy. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. You know, as long as you keep yourself healthy and you really have to keep your body limber and, you know, like engaged. I mean, I don't let people put my luggage on the airplane. I do it. And I'm five foot tall. I get it down too because I want to be able to like do it. How much do you work out then? Not as much as I would like to because I've been so busy. But I, you know, whenever I can, I will book myself with a trainer because I know myself when I go do it by myself.

40:21I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, I have to do this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Something. So I like to have a place that I have to be at. Yeah. So I do that, you know, a couple times a week. And then I walk the other day. I was going to say, you live an active life. I do. You know, you're always on the go, standing, not sitting all the time. Right. And my husband and I, when we're on holiday, we shower in the morning. We get our, you know, whatever. I put my tights on, a nice sweatshirt, and we go have breakfast. And then we walk all day until lunch, eat lunch, and we walk again. Shared valise. Yeah, yeah. Every once in a while, I'm like, can we please take an Uber?

41:07So, Bobby Brown Cosmetics, you meet with Leonard and you have this meeting. You are discussing this non-compete clause and you are thinking to yourself, okay, 25 years, who's going to want to work then? Yeah. And you sign. Mm-hmm. So what happens then normally with people? So this is another begin again, right? So this is a new phase of your life. You are with an enormous organization. You have creative control. Right. And you really did. Oh, I did. I had, as it was told to me, complete autonomy. Yeah. And, you know, I trusted Leonard. Yeah. I didn't even know where it was in the contract, but it was in there.

41:49and you know for many of the years it was you know we're thinking of opening this country what are your thoughts you know i mean great you know let's do it this way how about we do this like they really supported me and gave me the right teams we were allowed to hire our own teams and build our team and you know it was the golden years for many years you know as i say in the book until it wasn't. Until it wasn't. Until, you know, some new people started entering the company that were not lauders. Well, what's interesting, I suppose, is that 25 years is such a long time that it is somebody's entire working career.

42:30And obviously, there's going to be changes. And I suppose at the beginning, when you signed that, you're not thinking about that. You're just thinking, oh, this is great. And I really love you. And we're all... Right. And I was excited about learning more and I was excited about being more successful. I mean, I look back now at how small the business was when I sold it. I mean, we're at least 10 times bigger already in less of our new company. But Leonard saw this value in owning Bobby Brown Cosmetics because he believed in me. And it was evident. He did. and whenever I have an issue I would just go Leonard and we would talk about it and figure out what to do and you know it's not that I always got my way but we were able to make decisions and yeah I think one of the things that um is so brilliant about you and um really nice to have it all confirmed in in still Bobby is about um your inclusivity um you have always been a passionate advocate for looking after everybody everybody's skin and it's not about changing the color of your skin it's about matching right the color of your skin and you know what whatever color your skin is i always said when you come to a counter you have to find your color and you have to find your blush and your lipstick and your eyeshadow and and by the way we would have meetings every year the bottom five percent of the business they would want us to discontinue and and about four percent of that was makeup for women of color I said I'm not discontinuing it they said but it doesn't sell I said well then go get me more customers like you know that was a non-negotiable but but I for years I was able to have the power to say things like that and at some point I wasn't and I think that is one of the reasons why you were so massive is because people could see that you were providing yeah a service for everyone right it was like no one was left right out right um but what happened then like they just said no we're not there was a change in there was a change of the guard change in leadership there was a few changes in leadership and things change companies get bigger yeah organizations get bigger and it just you know things get diluted That's what happens.

44:58You know, when I started, like, hearing about someone that was joining my brand who I never met. I was like, that was, I used to meet everybody. Especially the, you know, the top hires. That was, like, the start of it. You know, and I saw it slipping away, but I just kept thinking in my naive way that I was going to fix it. You know, I'm like, oh, I got this. I know exactly what to do. And I just couldn't get the groundswell around me to say, yeah, let's we'll do that. Or they would say it and then nothing would happen. So I don't know. But honestly, I'm so grateful that I went through all the good times.

45:36And I'm really grateful I went through the end where it was so tough because where I'm at now, I would have never been there if I was still at the brand trying to fix it. And, you know. at the end you did keep trying to go back to fix it like it would happen and then you'd think oh i'll go away and i'll have a breather and then you'll come back and you'll go let's just try and or you might kind of think no no i've got another idea right yeah i'll be i can change it like this constantly constantly and it's so funny i have this picture of me at my old office and there's a creative board behind me and it's all the ads i tore out that were fashion ads and some of my photos that I wanted to turn Bobby Brown into.

46:22And I couldn't, you know, we were using these models and retouching them so they look like paintings. It was so like unauthentic. And now I look back at those pictures, it looks like Jones Road, the new brand. I'm like, so I got to do what it was in my head to do. And I always wanted to turn the products clean. And I couldn't get anyone to agree with me. When you say clean, can you just explain what you mean? A clean brand is that there's 2 ,500 chemicals that are not allowed in your formulations. And that was done by something in the EU and that was handed over to us in America. So, you know, I'm not the foremost expert on it, but I was lucky enough to get the list.

47:04So I would just hand it to the chemist. You can't put any of these in it. So a lot of those things were in traditional makeup. And again, you know, this is like a big pivot. It's like I, I mean, the word that again, that's coming into my head is fearless. It's like, I want to, well, you leaving was a big deal. How did that come about? Well, one day I was in the UK to celebrate the 25 years of Bobby Brown. It was a really great time and things were really tough though. So I was fighting with my PR at the time. All sorts of things were going on. It was pretty intense. You know, there was behind-the-scenes struggles that I didn't know about, and I think they were ready to let me go.

48:00But I came here, and then I came home, and I was called up into the building, and I thought they were going to tell me, finally, here are the candidates for the president, because we'd been going through search for a year and not one candidate. and then I walked into the office and with the person that was sitting there that I was supposed to meet with and there was another woman there who was you know a big head of legal or HR and she just said here Bobby and I said what she said we're canceling your work contract and I went you're firing me she goes no we have a new um we have a new opportunity for you and she handed it to me and I said I don't want it she said you have to take it I said I don't have to do anything anymore you just fired me and I left didn't even think about it and when I got in the elevator and went down like elation all all the I was look I had I had like pockets and pockets of photos from all over the world of things that look terrible that needed to be fixed lighting I said just go buy light bulbs.

49:12Things were really a mess at the end. And when I got home, when I spoke to my husband, this woman called my husband and said she wouldn't read it. Here it is. And it was basically saying, we want Bobby out of the day-to-day, but we want her to be the face of the brand. And this is what really got me. And she has to be available when someone calls her to ask questions, but she's not at liberty to tell them if she doesn't like something. Gagged. No. And it was a lot of money. And I said, no. It goes more in depth in the book. There's a few other things that. Yes. So, yeah, it was, you know, it was a time and it was, I'm not going to lie, you know, that my elation from the elevator all of a sudden turned to what the hell just happened?

50:02Like, like, you know, someone like took the rug under me and then someone cut my legs off and my arms off. I was, oh, my emotions were angry, sadness. Yes. I felt like a failure. Yes. I just, and then I would get little bouts of elation, like excitement, like, oh my God, there could be, but it was very little. And it took a while. And you're out of your 25 years. No. You had four and a half years. Four and a half years left. And, you know, a really tough part, because I'm now rekindled with all of the employees that were my people, because most of them are gone from the company, they weren't at liberty to talk to me.

50:41They were not allowed or they would get fired. So I literally, and, you know, truth is, some of them called me from their son's phones. And, you know, it was not pretty. It was not pretty. And I literally rebuilt myself, like emotion by emotion. Okay, let's talk a little bit about that, because again if this idea of change, something that is so terrifying, something where your back is so far up against the wall and you're like, no, no, no, but it's a bit like when you are terrified of something and you don't realise you're holding your breath and then finally you go, you go, oh, I can breathe again.

51:28that's kind of what you went through it's like just oh my god what what what what that for people out there who are thinking i can't change my job i'm stuck i'm paralyzed um how did you how did you do it well first of all i didn't have a choice yes okay but i did have a choice but would you have left no i don't think so really i don't think so i i always thought i could fix things. If I could just bring in a president or a GM that had the same beliefs and we could work on things together, I thought, no problem. But I didn't even get a candidate. So actually, Estee Lauder did you a favor? Oh, my God.

52:10The best thing that ever happened to me. The best thing that ever happened. And I'm not alone. It's a lesson, isn't it? It is. But I'm not alone, right? I mean, this happens. Kelvin Klein, Donna Karan. I mean, And so many people lose their brands and reinvent themselves. Joe Malone. You know, so it happens. And now I am the first phone call from any of my founder friends that had the same thing happen. You know, it happens. And by the way, it's their company, not mine. You know, it was hard for me to understand that when I was there. Yes, it was. It was very hard. And not that I would have done a contour palette.

52:47I wouldn't have. No, not that I would not. And they did. That was one of the first things they did is they took something. But you know what? The truth is, I'm only talking about this time in my life because I'm on book tour. I don't think about it. I am so moved beyond and past. But can I also just say, Bobby, I am pleased that you're on here talking about it. And I appreciate that it is all in the book. I strongly recommend anyone that is thinking about any kind of change in their life to read because it is so inspiring. Because at this stage in your life, it's never too late to start again.

53:30And this is what I love. Yeah. And you were what, 63? 62 when I left. 62 when you left. Oh, no, I was 52 when I left and 62 when we launched Jones Road. When you launched Jones Road. Yeah. That's 62 to a brand. No, maybe I was 64. See how bad I am in math? I think you were. Because it was four and a half years. 58 to 62. I was 59. That I know. Oh, so 63. I was 63. 63 in between us. Yeah. And I did a whole bunch of things, you know, a whole bunch of different projects. In between. Oh, yeah. From like literally after two days. I literally stayed home two days kind of sulking. My friends came over two nights in a row with tequila.

54:11Sulking. Two days. And then I started making phone calls to people that I knew that, you know, were not involved in my business because I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone in my business. So I, you know, started going out and seeing friends, one friend that owned a couple department stores. And he said, why don't we do the Just Bobby Shop? I'm so glad you know and so I started signing up and doing projects my husband and I started working on a hotel in our hometown and I started I knew I needed a team yeah I knew I need an assistant first of all at 59 I needed someone to help me with my iPhone so I hired someone out of the Apple shop right of course why wouldn't you yeah who never heard of me didn't know who I was and she came and worked for me so she worked for me for a year or two No.

55:00And had you been thinking between the end and even though you hadn't started it, if I was going to start another brand, what would it look like? No, because I just thought one and done. That was, you know, and I thought when I left that no one was going to ever want to interview me again and ask me things like, where do you like to go on holiday? What do you want for lunch? You know, the things used to annoy me. I'm like, well, those days are over. And it was the opposite, by the way. I would like to talk to you about that because I had something happen in the middle of my career where I thought I did a show and it was I'd been on telly for 15, maybe 20 years and I'd been hugely successful.

55:47and I presented a massive turkey and I got ripped to shreds and I was the breadwinner and I was like responsible for three kids and I just thought oh my god it's over I am done and I've always been grateful yeah for my life but fuck me after that fuck me fuck you fuck me hey, fuck you. Yeah. I was so grateful if somebody said, hey, I loved you on that. Right. Did you not like massage my ego, but thank you. You know, I understand when something happens, when you get broken up with, you get fired, your husband leaves you, cheats on you, there's a hole. And, you know, really, you have to fill it up yourself, and it's really hard.

56:42So I didn't go to a shrink. I did two things. Hang on. Can I just ask you about that? Is there like, you sound like you're proud about that. Is there something about going to shrinks that you don't like? No, no. It just, well, I find that when you go to shrinks, you talk about, my mother did this and I grew up like this. It wasn't about that. No. So I had a friend of mine who was a life coach. They came to me and said, can I just do a session? I'm like, what's a life coach? It was amazing. and he started giving me every week certain things to do. Like what? Well, the first thing he was like, tell me what's bothering you.

57:16And so I would talk about the departure and then I started saying there's things in my house that drive me crazy. So I walked around and I took a picture of the couch, the things were coming out, the mess here. And then he brought me the pictures the next week with a Sharpie and I circled them and then he took it back and he started writing next to it. he'd say um you know so and so trimming here's the phone number call them they'll come and they'll fix your couch like he started giving me solutions to the things that were bothering me the things that he had no solutions about he said all right i i had this couch that was filled with down and it was old already because my kids you know were in the house and it used to drive me crazy like i'll never get a down couch again i always want to get some kind of like nice and firmly yeah And he said, but tell me about this couch.

58:07What happened to it? I said, my kids jumping and they're friends. And he said, but how did you feel having your kids in the house? I said, wonderful. And I started looking at that couch with a little bit more love in my eye. We eventually got rid of it, but at least it didn't bother me as much. And we just continued to work on things, and he would give me an action plan. Wow. That's great. Yeah, and I'm an action plan guy. And some of it was get out early and go walk in the park. Yeah. You know, don't eat as many of this. Add some of this. Like it was a whole thing and it really helped. And then I had a chiropractor that gets rid, that does energy release in your body.

58:45He got rid of a lot of negative energy. That was, that was probably the combination of the two things helped a lot. And then I had other projects. So I was busy again. So when did Jones Road, like when was it born in your head? so I did all these different things and one of the things I did was a wellness brand I actually we had it in boots for a short time yes um and it was really fun not successful like I'm used to the you know the kind of success with makeup but it was interesting and I learned a lot and then I just said you know I miss being a makeup artist so I had a space I have a had a space that I have a space that's a photo studio.

59:27So I would do shoots for this company and hire the models and do all the things. And then I realized how much I missed makeup. And at the same time, I got two calls that were so incredible. One was from the Indian makeup show. And they flew me over to India to key a couple big giant shows there. And I did not ever use Bobby Brown from the day I left. I didn't want to touch it, didn't want to see it. And I started building a kit, and I realized I didn't like any of the things that were in this kit. Right. And I also got a call from Masterclass to do the first ever makeup Masterclass. It's great, aren't they those?

1:00:07They're so good. So that was filmed after I started working with the chemist, and I had little samples of things that eventually turned into Jones Road. And I got to use those on camera. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is so good. It was better than anything I've ever used. It worked perfectly with the lighting. So we launched Jones Road October of 20, the day my 25-year non-compete was up. Actually, it was the day after because it was a Sunday. I wanted to launch on a Sunday, but I agreed to launch on a Monday. It was a week before the presidential elections in the middle of the pandemic. but I did it anyways it kicked off right and interestingly you didn't want it to go into stores no it's I'm still not we're not in stores we're in one department store and that's liberty you just wanted to be direct to consume yes why was that because I've done the department store things I've done the Sephora's you know the Alta's it's a different business and it's a different ball game and it's not the there's there's a lot of aggravation and not as much reward so and I had a platform like I didn't have to do that where a lot of young brands that's how they get discovered yes I mean the amazing thing is is that um you did it your way right and I didn't expect it to be anything other than people might like this kind of like how I started with the lipsticks yes I never thought wow this could be a brand yeah but you know when I first made Miracle Balm that was my first product and I mean look at that I mean look at that is right and I would give little samples to my friends and they would call me and say oh my god what is this you know because the middle of the pandemic everyone looked bad and you just put a little bit of that on your face you're like oh my god I look so much better I think um the The interesting thing about launching Jones Road during the pandemic is Zoom.

1:02:09Yes. You know. 100%. Like we were all on Zoom. Right. And you bring out something and you go, oh, hang on a minute. God, I look great. Right. Look at how much better this is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we were all, I mean, how much of the day do we spend looking in the mirror? Not that much. No. You know, you maybe go to the bathroom and you have a quick look. Yeah. But we were in front of a screen looking at ourselves. Without hair color. All day. Right, yeah. Mad. Right, yeah. I learned at least to put my Zoom camera in front of a window where other people didn't. Give yourself the light. Yeah, you need the light.

1:02:44So, you know, that's how we launched Jones Road. It's now five years. Yes, can I just say, hang on. Yeah. Stay there. Yeah. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. And congratulations for a buzz. Yeah. Yeah.

1:03:02How's that journey been? How's the five years been like? Well, first of all, when we first launched, I thought, uh-oh, I don't want to be a one-hit wonder. Right. Possible. I didn't know if people... I mean, that is a thing, right? Sure. It's not about the money. No, it wasn't about the money for me. And, you know, it was such a different concept. I'm like, are people going to think this is the emperor's new clothes, not as much color as the traditional company? it's not in you know over marketed anything you know i just i always hated cosmetics marketing yes and so i just you know wanted to just say this is what this is this is what it does end of story and this is how you use it i think the other thing that i love which is very in that vein is the packaging simple it's so cool and simple by the way it's stock packaging so we get to keep our costs down.

1:03:55Right. Because so many companies spend so much money on packaging, which is wasteful. Yes. I mean, it's interesting that you're talking about, what did you call it when it was the EU had asked to keep out those, a clean? Clean. A clean, a clean product. But it's, it's a sustainable brand. But I think, Like, is that something that you've got really passionate about? Well, I'm not someone that likes to waste anything. I don't like wasting my time. I don't like wasting money. You know, when someone says we're going to get you a car service, you know, I wonder how much it is because I know I could take an Uber or a taxi.

1:04:37Yes. It's fine. Yeah. I like to compare. Yes. So I'm very practical. And also kind of a gift for everybody else that's working with you. It's like you're quite different from lots of people we meet that aren't like that. You know, you're very grounded. I'm grounded. I'm direct. And if someone asks me something, I will tell them the truth. Yes, which is glorious. Yeah. I mean, I don't understand how other people don't. No. I really don't. And that's a problem. You've always been like that. I think so. Yeah. And that's why I got along so well with Leonard. I could tell him, Leonard, this is what I feel.

1:05:15And he never made me feel that I was anything less than just because I felt something. You know, where a lot of people in business, you're just a woman. You're just too emotional. Can we talk about being a woman in business? What are the experiences that you've had where you've been a bit like, holy moly, this is bad? I've never felt holy moly, this is bad. I would sit in situations and I would sit there looking at all these pompous guys in suits, realizing that you guys don't have a effing clue. You just don't. You don't know what women want. You don't really understand this. You just talk louder.

1:05:56I think the interesting thing about you, though, is that your brutal honesty is very disarming. And I would imagine in a room full of men who are used to kind of maybe trying to overpower somebody, male or female, you know, that when you've got somebody who's like, no, I don't agree with that. Yeah. And you're like. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. You know, when someone was telling me what women want, I'm like, I don't think so. You know, and then what men love. You know, it's a woman's makeup company. Well, a man wants to find a woman sexy. I said, not all men. My husband thinks I am sexy.

1:06:35I don't have to try to be. Yeah. You know. I mean, I think the interesting thing is that all the people that I find attractive, and obviously, I mean, I'm in love with Michael, but you can find somebody. Yeah. There's a charisma or something. Sure. It's confidence. It is. Confidence, and you know what confidence is? It's just being comfortable with who you are. Yeah, totally. It's like not like, you know, it's and, you know, and we're allowed to be different. Right. We're allowed to be different, you know, and still be friends and still work together. And, you know, it's like, I don't know what's wrong with people and I don't know what's wrong with this world.

1:07:12We are allowed to think and believe different things. We talked a bit about learning about who we are. Like, who are you today? I am someone who's very tired. because I said yes I said yes to a lot more things than I probably should have you know I'm glad I said yes but yeah no but I would like a week between getting on another airplane but you know I get two days sometimes so that's okay but but I'm going through this very incredible book tour with an attitude of not I have to do it but I get to do it and that's due to gratitude Oh, it's total. I mean, I am so grateful. I mean, whoever thought I would have this second, you know, beautiful part of my life.

1:07:59And it's just so interesting because now I have two little kids that are my grandchildren. And you have no idea how that changes you. Yeah. And it's, you know, when we do our shoots, my granddaughter comes, you know, runs into my arms, BB, BB, and she wants to do the makeup. So she's got a brush and she puts makeup on people and then she helps. I style all the shoots. So we've got tables of jewelry, tables of clothes. Lily pulls something out and gives it to the model. Like she's for three years old. She is very confident. But this creative, you know, you saying I style all the shoots has just slightly blown my mind.

1:08:38I edit the shoots. I style, I edit, I book. I don't physically book, but with my creative director, we choose. And, you know, it's funny. We've been using models over and over again, and half of them are not real models. They're beautiful girls that I love. You know, they have a spark. I try to do mostly those girls. Like we have our, you know, our little book of who we like. And every time we bring a new model in, like on occasion we find someone that could be part of our, you know, our stable. Like, yes, put them in for good. And other times it's like they were fine, but yeah. Just a question about Jones Road.

1:09:16If a big company came along and asked to buy it, what would you do? It depends who it is. And it depends what the situation is. You know, I'm not looking to sell the company to go home and go on a holiday. If we ever, and in the beginning I said we're not for sale, we're not for sale. But it's a very big business right now. And it's incredibly, it's self-funded and it's totally profitable. And I know that's unusual. And, you know, I am not looking forward to having partners that would change anything. I'm not looking forward to it. You've been burnt. Yeah. I just – well, I know what it's like to not be in charge.

1:09:59And really, the starting Jones Road, it really has allowed me to be in charge again, which is kind of ironic because my second son is the CEO. So I'm kind of in charge again. Kind of in charge again. How is that? It's interesting and great. He's the best person for the job. He is so good at what he does. I have no idea how he's learned everything he's learned. And, you know, he's not afraid to try things. Sometimes he will get my permission. Sometimes he won't. Sometimes he'll say, well, that didn't work. Like, it's amazing. That's amazing as well to be able to go, we tried this, but it didn't work.

1:10:42Let's do something else. I mean, that's amazing, isn't it? That's confidence. It is. It really is. And his wife is our head of brand. Oh, great. Yeah. Oh, my God. can I just say you that would be an important job to give because oh my god it's a huge job it's everything it's like everything it's like what's right for me it's me yeah and she gets it and she she gets it but she also pushes me right and only she could do that only she could do that that's amazing he they both push me they both push me and I you know I have to I have had to learn new ways of communicating because, you know, it's very easy to piss off people that you live with.

1:11:22Yes. So, you know, you have to kind of pull yourself back. Kind of the same situation when I was in a corporation. I'd have to understand. I'd have to push myself back and then figure out how and when to say something. And it's really how you say it. It's really the words that come out of your mouth something that i'm really appreciating about you actually is um you're always learning oh my god i'm always learning yeah you never think i know everything you're like i may i may have made a mistake i need to rethink how i speak you know but i also like i have a woman who does all my pr and partnerships in america and we're just we're both you know she's your age she's 10 years younger than me and we're both like okay that'd be so amazing how are we gonna do that okay well that didn't work we're not taking no for an answer we're very similar that way and it's like okay it's not happening now but we will can i tell you something that i've said all my life um that um a no is a yes that hasn't happened yet unless you're in the bedroom right um but i'm always like no oh you just don't know it's a yes yet don't worry you'll change your mind i'm always like and no never means anything to me because it also i it might be a no now yeah but i'm not done no i'm not done exactly you know just because someone said no you don't have to write everything up just repackage right we figure it out yeah yeah um one more thing this this podcast was about living um a life you love so you could die happy and um and i was just wondering you know you are still working you are still loving life you are in a very successful marriage got three great kids like what what would you like your legacy to be that people are left with of you when you go I mean I I think I've already achieved achieved it you know because people tell me all the time what I've meant to them and I know people will say you know you she made me feel good about who I am.

1:13:29Yeah. And she gave me permission to be myself and to go for it. That's a pretty good legacy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I've done that already. So now I've got to figure out what the next one is. Now you can just have fun. I am having fun, but I'm not done. There's still things. Tell me. What? I don't know. That's the good news. I don't know. There's still things. We're definitely going to be DM friends. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no. I need to know. I mean, this year I got one of the greatest awards. I've had a lot of awards, but, you know, I was times 100. I had about that. Which was like, all right, well, I'm done.

1:14:01I'm not getting a Nobel Peace Prize, so what else is bigger than times 100? I'm like, all right, I'm done. But you don't know. I don't know. There might be something. I don't know. Coming, Bobby. I could probably, you know, create peace with blush. Just walk around, give everyone blush, smile, feel good. Yeah. Blush is everything. Yeah, blush is everything. Yeah. Bobby Brown. Thank you. Thank you.