In short
David Gandy discusses his rise to becoming one of the world’s highest-paid male models, how his agent/mentor shaped his career, his work with Marks & Spencer/Jaeger, and his views on masculinity, young men, and the “manosphere” alongside his Lost Boys campaign on male suicide.
Guests
David Gandy (British model; long-running Dolce & Gabbana/Light Blue campaigns; Select agency client; later M&S/Jaeger ambassador; father of young children; works on men’s mental health). Interviewer: Davina McCall (host). Agent mentioned: Tandy Anderson (Select founder/longtime agent). Partner mentioned: Steph (barrister; co-parents).
Key claims
Gandy says he wanted control of his career, credits Tandy Anderson for steering him from catalogue/commercial into editorial and luxury campaigns (manifesting “Dolce & Gabbana”). He frames the “manosphere” as targeting young men and argues they need positive mentors. He argues male suicide is worsening (biggest killer under 40/45/50, per his statement) and links “toxic masculinity” messaging to young men being demonized and schools/social media feeding fear.
Notable examples
Being dropped after a Dolce shoot with Scarlett Johansson (then paid fully and used it as a springboard). Dolce & Gabbana/Light Blue “platform” leading to long-term success. M&S/Jaeger deal described as “coming home,” with his WorldWare brand integrated. Lost Boys campaign with Centre for Social Justice; discussion of boys aged 16–24 and school reports.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODavid Gandy's Journey in Modeling
0:45 to 1:20
David shares insights on how industry perceptions shifted his career.
“And now with Manosphere, the name's of Andrew Tate.”
The Changing Fashion Landscape
1:20 to 2:42
Discussion about the evolution of the fashion industry and its current state.
“So I was at Models One as a booker on the men's desk from 1986 to 92, the golden years, I think.”
Mentorship in the Industry
2:42 to 4:40
David reflects on the importance of mentorship and the influence of his agent.
“Now you look back at it when you say 26 years is a long time.”
Key Insights from Tandy
4:40 to 6:13
David reveals how Tandy's guidance helped shape his modeling career.
“You know, just for anybody that doesn't know, that's your agent.”
Shifting Gears and Brand Control
6:13 to 8:52
Discussion on taking control of his career and navigating brand relationships.
“Nothing, like 50 quid or something, like expenses.”
Embracing Opportunities
8:52 to 13:12
David shares a pivotal moment that redefined his perspective on challenges.
“I was like, I know David's body better than his wife because I've seen so much of it.”
New Ventures with Jaeger
13:12 to 14:02
Exploration of David's new collaboration with Jaeger and its significance.
“and building what we, finally the platform that we had with Light Blue, I thought finally after six years we've got a platform to build.”
David Gandy's Jaeger Partnership
14:02 to 16:58
Explore David Gandy's nostalgia and connection to Jaeger through his father's modeling history.
“Because I showed you a picture of my dad earlier, who's on the top shelf.”
M&S Brand Evolution
16:59 to 19:12
David discusses the evolution of the M&S brand and his role in it over the years.
“And, well, what's interesting is you going away and then coming, I didn't, it's not that I didn't miss you, but I'm not a man, so I don't naturally go to men's clothing.”
Influence of Family Background
19:13 to 21:16
David reflects on his upbringing and the entrepreneurial spirit instilled by his parents.
“It was a very normal upbringing to them.”
Show all 26 chapters
David's Relationship with Work
21:17 to 23:34
An insight into David's dedication to work and how it affected his personal life and relationships.
“So you just grew up in that environment.”
Travel Experiences and Fame
23:35 to 26:32
David shares his experiences of frequent travel and encounters during flights, including notable celebrities.
“But with that is I would probably adapt my life around that person.”
David Gandy's Childhood Shyness
28:34 to 29:44
Discover David Gandy's experiences with shyness during his childhood.
“I was kind of interested to hear that you were shy, really, as a kid.”
Overcoming Shyness and Self-Critique
29:44 to 31:26
Explore how Gandy has learned to accept himself despite his initial shyness.
“Do you find it hard to look at photos of yourself?”
Parenting and Personal Growth
31:26 to 33:24
Gandy shares insights on parenting and the importance of being present.
“I would go off and the freedom, they realised that I needed that.”
David's Journey with Fitness and Body Image
34:33 to 38:21
Gandy discusses his evolution in fitness and changing perceptions of male models.
“Did they try and talk to you about it or did they just let you go?”
The Importance of Active Engagement for Kids
38:21 to 42:00
Gandy emphasizes the need for active involvement and engagement for children.
“I always did some at school because I was playing a lot of sports.”
The Importance of Travel in Education
42:00 to 44:45
Discover how travel shapes perspectives and family bonding.
“We didn't when it came to travel because my dad thinks it's David Attenborough II.”
Navigating Masculinity in Today's Society
44:45 to 45:44
Explore the challenges young men face in modern relationships and family roles.
“not mental, but a guidance in that part of your life.”
Addressing Male Mental Health Issues
45:44 to 47:05
Learn about the critical issue of male suicide and the need for open discussions.
“They were not the generation to be effusive with I love you's and I'm so proud of you.”
The Role of Toxic Masculinity in Society
47:05 to 49:15
Understand the implications of labeling masculinity as toxic and its impact on young men.
“Yes, men do need to talk, and I believe in that, but biologically men don't.”
The Influence of the Manosphere
49:15 to 52:10
Examine how the manosphere shapes perceptions of masculinity among young men.
“and they'll go, he's so competitive, he's the dominance of this team, the dominance of that character, the hard work, all those different things on a football field.”
Mentorship and Positive Masculinity
52:10 to 55:19
Discuss the importance of mentorship in fostering positive masculinity.
“What you do is you need a lot of good people, mentors, positive people to rein that in and sort of say, look, you have to realize that this is crap.”
Addressing Masculinity in Society
56:03 to 56:56
Learn about the importance of discussing positive aspects of masculinity and equality.
“More people have got to just go out with kind of just advice and tips and hints.”
The Confidence of Grooming
56:57 to 58:18
Discover how self-care and personal grooming can boost confidence and self-worth.
“What I'd like to do is tell you a little bit of a funny story.”
Inspiration and Impact
58:19 to 58:32
Hear a heartfelt acknowledgment of inspiration and the impact of their discussion.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Davina McCall:I know David's body better than his wife because I've seen so much of it. Like Times Square, 50 foot, it was enormous. I mean the poster, everybody. No laughing there, please. Everyone used to say to me, you're so Amman, you're so Ralph Lauren. And someone had told me, no, you're Dolce & Gabbana. And that changed where I was in the industry. And so when Dolce wanted this bigger, more muscular guy, the actual pond to fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone had followed the trend and gone skinnier and I had gone the other way. I tell the story once. I shot the campaign with Scarlett Johansson.
0:35I'll get a call from my agent. And she went, yeah, they dropped you, you're out. You know, it's like you're alone a lot of the time.
0:40Davina McCall:I'd like to talk to you about the love life. There was not anyone in the industry that I could almost trust. And now with Manosphere, the name's of Andrew Tate. They are talking to young men. And the young men are listening. And what you do is you need a lot of good people, mentors, positive people to reign that in. But I think you need to be present for your children, and I've made that a purpose in my life. Because it's a very easy thing to say, I love you, it's harder to show it.
1:09Davina McCall:So, I am so happy to talk to you today. I'm happy to be here. It's quite weird how our paths have been so similar for a while. So I was at Models One as a booker on the men's desk from 1986 to 92, the golden years, I think. It was just such a fun time in fashion. But when did you start modelling? So I started 20, nearly 25 years ago. So that would have been 2001, 2002. Yeah, 2002, really. What I kind of enjoyed about the fashion stream, about that, there was a mystery kind of behind it. And I think that's been lost a little bit. Yeah. Well, that's the internet for you, isn't it? Well, I say now when you shoot a campaign and everyone already knows what it's going to look like before it's even out.
2:03Because we've had to do so much social and everything. And, yeah, like combine it all and then it's all out before the campaign. and the days before when that was the biggest release and then you had to build up to that day in the big reveal. It doesn't really exist anymore because it's also dropped throughout months until that big reveal. Yeah, which I'm a little bit certain about. I do have to say I did love those days.
2:30Davina McCall:I mean, can I also just say, like, well done. I mean, 26 years, that is incredible. I mean, it's long. Yeah. Now you look back at it when you say 26 years is a long time. Yeah. It's a long time. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was just wondering, would it be all right if you just subscribed? Thanks. There's a couple of things I want to kick off with. Firstly, this normally, I think, is the height of rudeness. And I bet you were looking at it and I saw you give your phone to someone and I thought, I wonder if he's checked my phone and gone, it's a bit rude. It's a bit rude. No, I didn't. She's got her phone here.
3:11Davina McCall:I didn't, actually. But I've got it here for a reason. Right. And that reason is because I may have called somebody and said, I'm interviewing somebody today. Do you want to say anything? Now, we both know this person. Right. And I haven't listened to this message because you were just walking into the room when I received it. So I'm really sorry if there's any Effing and Jeffing in here. I don't know. I'm intrigued now. Yeah. So am I. But here we go. Are you ready? Go on. Hey, David Gandy. How's it going? What can I say about David Gandy? I love him. He's loyal. He's professional. But above all, he's just such a nice guy.
3:58Davina McCall:I mean, what you see is what you get. And he is a nice, nice guy. Not like some of them toe rugs out there. No, I'm joking. But at the end of the stage, all that counts is that he has been so loyal to Select over the years. And he has been so nice to my staff, all the clients that he works for. Everything he does, he tries his hardest at doing it. And I love him. Even if he wasn't at Select, I still love him. Big kiss. Bye, David. Oh, bless Tandy. Tandy Anderson. You know, just for anybody that doesn't know, that's your agent. She's been at Select forever. When I was working there in the late 80s, her and her sister started Select.
4:50Davina McCall:And I can't believe, you know, they are still going strong, still at the top of the model agency league. I'm now hiding this. No, let me turn off the sound first because otherwise my son's going to call him. I talk about Tandy. We're going to talk about it a bit more later. about you with talk about mentors and the importance of males and young men having mentors she wasn't like there was not wasn't anyone in the industry that i could almost trust and have a mentor she was mine so how come tandy was a mentor there was no one really in the industry where i wanted to be and this was and you would understand what others about the almost the divide between where the girls could get to what they were being paid and where the where they got where the guys were and i used to look at that and said well but why why can't we have the exclusive contracts why you know why are the the girls so out of the industry known and we're not all supermodels i always joke that you you don't even need to need to say surnames you can say kate and cindy and christy yeah yeah yeah they need to you know who they are that's phenomenal um so i went to tandy at one point just said she said you're doing well kid always called me kid or was it you're doing well kid and I was like not really what I want to do Tand and I was always pushing and I think she kind of loved it um pushing to do more she said what do you want to do and I I said to her I gave her an example so you remember like the Levi's commercials the guys in the Levi's commercials yeah Nick yeah Nick and Paul did it yeah I was just like that that iconic commercial and she said to me she went okay if you're serious about this she went I probably think you're slightly mad because you're you're only well but you're doing I was doing catalogue and commercial work.
6:34Nothing I really wanted to do.
6:36Davina McCall:But they were big money payers. The catalogue and commercial were the kind of thing that lots of other guys that were doing all the editorial, because people probably don't know, but all the editorial for the fashion magazines, like the really good ones, Vogue were the ones that paid the least because it was the kudos. I didn't think it paid anything. Nothing, like 50 quid or something, like expenses. Like a nominal fee could be like a pound and you'd be on the cover. Yes. Absolutely mad. But then often the guys that we had that were doing those kind of jobs would literally cut off their right arm for some commercial and some catalogue, but you were doing sort of too much of it.
7:07I wasn't doing too much of it. It was, for the side of me, I just wanted to be, I suppose if I was in this industry and I could see the potential of where someone could be.
7:19Davina McCall:Yes. Someone who branded, right, someone who created a brand. And, yeah, could see it. And Tandy could see it as well. Yes. And this is the interesting thing is everyone used to say to me, you're so Armani, you have to go for the Armani, or you're so Ralph Lauren, or something like that. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. We'd love to do anything. And Tanya went, no, you're Dolce & Gabbana. And she said it for just putting it out there into the, in my mind and her minding into the, you're Dolce & Gabbana, you're getting Dolce. Dolce is the one, you're Dolce & Gabbana. But you know what we'd call that now?
7:53Well.
7:54Davina McCall:Manifesting. Manifesting, exactly. Right? You put it out into the universe and you make it happen. I know what happened. Yeah. So she was the one that believed in me. But we had to. She said, you've got to give up everything. We can't have you as a commercial model anymore. If this is where you want to do it, we'll do it. And you've got to give up all that commercial work. You've got to be seen as completely different. So we've got to shoot an editorial. We've got to get you on a cover. We've got to do this. And Lawrence Thomas, her husband now, he shot me. So when people talk about the shots that changed where I was in the industry, it was actually, and it is Dolce, But if people talk about the first set of shots that really changed everything, it was those shots of Lawrence, like Tandy's husband.
8:38And then progressing to that, we then got the Dolce & Gabbana campaign, which led to the Light Blue campaign.
8:44Davina McCall:Which was that iconic campaign where it was the white chunks. Speedos, yeah. I was making a joke before you arrived. I was like, I know David's body better than his wife because I've seen so much of it. I apologise about that. But like Times Square, you know, what, 50 foot? Yeah, never saw it. It was enormous. Yeah. I mean, how fantastic. I mean the poster, everybody. No laughing there, please. A lot of crotch. I wasn't talking about that though, David. I was meaning the scale of the advert. Thank you. But that, you know, what I really like about what I've just heard is that you are somebody who didn't, I think the natural thing would be to just go with the flow with modelling.
9:36Davina McCall:Like you'd think, oh, well, I'm just quite lucky to be here. I'm just, but you wanted to take control of your career. I wanted, I always said, you know, I didn't want the industry or anyone in control of me, including brands. I wanted to be in control of it. I think you have to be. How would that manifest itself? Like, if you weren't happy on a shoot, what would happen? I don't think you'd do anything drastic on a shoot if you weren't happy. I mean, there's a difference. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not like I haven't politely walked off a shoot if things were agreed were not agreed. And vice versa.
10:13You know, I tell the story once of we shot, I shot a campaign with Scarlett Johansson for Dolce & Gabbana. It was a makeup. I was very much just like in the background, but with Scarlett. And then we shot, then I flown out to LA and we were shooting at an alcoholic band. And Scarlett was there as well. So, of course, in the morning she went, Dave, I didn't know you were on the shoot. This is so fun. Have you seen the shots? And we were talking about Dolce. And everything went a bit quiet. and they went, David, can you just go downstairs for a while? And I was left there for an hour. No one talking to you.
10:48Davina McCall:Oh, no. No one saying anything. So, you know, in the fashion industry when that happens, no one's got the balls to speak to you. So you're kind of left. And I was kind of waiting. I was like, okay, I'll get a call from Heidi at the moment, with my agent. And she called me and she went, yeah, they dropped you, you're out. What, the shit that you were on? We were on, I said, just out of interest. And she went, they don't like it that you and Scarlett have shot before for Dolce & Gabbana on the mate, but you can't do this together. Nothing, not same products, not same companies, not same anything.
11:17And this is where I kind of, young guys, if I'm mentoring her, they ask me, and I said, you could take that situation and be devastated, but really angry. You could have a go, everyone. And I went to Heidi, right, what's the legal term? She went, paid fully. You're there. They didn't, they should have. I said, fine. I went, if you need me, I will be in Carmel. Rented a car, went to Carmel. Now I had a two-day holiday, which I never took, out in Carmel. Rented a car, got paid fully, came home. And I thought, great. And then I went to work for it. I thought, this is not diluting me to work for another alcohol brand.
11:51Fined me another alcohol brand. Went to go and do Johnny Walker, Blue Label. I looked at all as a positive. So you can't look at that as a negative and say, poor me, I got. Yes. I looked at all as great. Okay. Someone's paying me not to work and I can go off and then progress to it with another brand so that that was all win-win but that was the attitude that's probably the attitude that tandy instilled in me as well and um yeah there was no feeling sorry for yourself or you're not getting anything she was like go and make something happen get out to new york that was always her thing like tandy not really work get out to new york then go and do some appointments that's what we would do she also had a person in me i think that would push her and push my agents as much as they would push me as well.
12:38Davina McCall:I certainly don't remember having any models like you. I wasn't someone sitting there on their PlayStation or sitting at home not going out every evening and then coming back and waiting for a phone call. I was like telling them what can we do to help this, to improve it? And that's what I did. I tell people now, I didn't take holidays until I sort of met Steph really from like 10 years ago. And she was like, where do you holiday? I went, I don't. I take a few extra days here and there for like if I'm on a trip. Well, that's going to change. And it did. And that was a nice idea. But my whole life was work and building what we, finally the platform that we had with Light Blue, I thought finally after six years we've got a platform to build.
13:21I didn't sit on my laurels with Dolce and just think, okay, that's great. Because to me, that contract could have been a year, could have been three years, could have been two years. It's a three-year contract, but two years rolling, and they'll tell you if they want to use you again. If someone had told me it was going to be 18 years, I might have relaxed a bit. But at the same time, we've got to look at one now.
13:41Davina McCall:Yeah, but it's only 18 years because you didn't. Because I didn't. And that was like, well, okay, Dolce & Mountain used me, so we keep on pushing with other brands. I'm loyal to them. So, yeah. And I quickly just want to talk to you about your new work with Marks and Spencers, with Jaeger.
14:02Davina McCall:Because I showed you a picture of my dad earlier, who's on the top shelf. And when I heard that you were doing this partnership with Jaeger, I wanted to bring you a picture of my dad from the mid-60s. before I was born, when he was modelling for Jaeger. You're kidding. That's amazing. How great is that? And I still love the outfit. It's so good, right? It looks good now. Hang on a minute. I've worn a v-neck jumper and a roll neck before, but I'm rocking that one out tomorrow. If I see you in it, I'm going to call my mum and go, guess what? I've got the Jaeger lyrics tomorrow. This is amazing. Isn't it lovely?
14:46I'm wearing Jaeger now, see?
14:48Davina McCall:Oh, look. See? That's, yeah. And it really... When was this? It must have been early 60s. I was born in 67 and it was before that. Yeah. Fab. See, and that's what I actually love when M &S approached me about Jaeger, is that history to the brand. Yeah. That longevity to it, that British, the Britishness to it at M &S. And quality. And the quality. I mean, it's always seen as... Which was kind of the problem we had when we were working with M &S because my brand, we had sort of a David Gandy autograph was always sort of the higher end, the luxury brand. That's where we wanted to keep it. And when I first went to M &S, I remember I was doing Colleccione, which was a lovely Italian sub-brand of M &S.
15:34And it was beautiful blazers from Puglia in Italy. Yes. I've still got them. That's what the quality was. and I think then M &S were trying to you then had lots of people going on like Cosm, Primark and all these different companies and the quality was going down so where I was wearing this I got to the end and I was ambassador of tailoring and then they tried to give me a 90 quid suit, polyester suit and I was like this is not where we, M &S were a very different place so over those five years I haven't been at M &S looking at what was happening and Stuart Mansion coming in and Mitch for their menswear and they showed me Jaeger and Stuart, what do you think?
16:13I was like, it's good. It's really, really good. I like this. Yeah. So that's when, and of course, then part of that deal was I said, look, we had this very successful David Gandy autograph brand. I've got David Gandy Worldwear. It's what we were doing before. It's better. Stuart said, right, well, you come in for Jaeger. You come full circle and bring world wear into M &S. And we launched last Thursday and it's gone, thank you. Gangbusters. Very, very well so far. So I have to thank the M &S customer for, because you never know. Well, to me, an M &S customer, like M &S is part of our DNA.
16:52Davina McCall:This is not an advert, by the way. I'm not being paid by M &S. I just want to let you know, but I am just going to quickly mention that they are part of this nation's DNA. Like it can't ever shut down. Like M &S has got to last forever. Yeah. And, well, what's interesting is you going away and then coming, I didn't, it's not that I didn't miss you, but I'm not a man, so I don't naturally go to men's clothing. No. But I didn't realise you'd gone. So you coming back just feels right. Yeah, we didn't make it. Like, it's so nice. That was part of it. It was something, when I'm leaving a brand or saying, making statements or bitter about leaving brands or anything.
17:32No. You don't do that. No. You know, people are the same with Dolce, 18 years. They said, well, you must be sad about leaving the brand. I said, sad? I've had 18 years at Dolce & Gabbana. I thought maybe three. All I can ever say is thank you to that brand. And M &S was the same. But I always knew in my head that there was something sort of unfinished left with M &S. Did you? You knew? I did. And from the first time I started the brand, I said, one day this has got to be back in M &S. Yeah. But again, I don't often like to go when I feel is backwards.
18:04Davina McCall:Yeah. Always walking forwards. So yeah. So there was a reservation of when I was outside the offices in Paddington. I must admit, I stalled for a second and just went, what am I doing here? And I walked in and I have to say the first lady that I knew from where she came in and said, welcome back, Mr. Gandhi. And literally I said to her, you don't know how I needed that to hear that. And I went up and I saw, you know, so many people I knew and... Well, it's coming home. Yeah, you kind of, what it felt, I was like, okay, it is home, which is lovely, which is good. And it's proved so far so good.
18:40Davina McCall:You know, I'm getting a kind of taste of you and your work ethic and your style and how important that is to you. And how, and this isn't a criticism, it's a compliment that you are uncompromising. and, you know, not to a fault, but to your boundary, to, you know, this is what I want to do, this is what I don't want to do. That's quite a strong position to have. Where does that come from? Like, tell me a bit about your parents because I know that your dad... What's stubbornness? Well, was it? It's my dad, yeah. Is it? Yeah. Tell me about your parents. What was it like growing up? It was a very normal upbringing to them.
19:20Normal in those brought up in Billiwick and Essex. Yeah. Went to Billericay Comprehensive. And yeah, we, normal things that every normal family do. And my dad who came by, he grew up in a very impoverished background, built businesses. My mum built businesses with him. So that's, I think, from a perspective of a child, subconsciously you're seeing how hard it is. my mum and dad didn't go to work at eight o 'clock and come back at uh to uh you know sort of five o 'clock in the afternoon is they were working until 11 12 my dad was dealing with america a lot so we all sat down as dinners by i said before for probably 10 years dad was sat down at dinner we'd have to get up twice to answer the phone you know back in the days before mobiles and everything else um and building businesses and mum was the same but it was around it was still around home So first of all, they were at home and then they built their offices.
20:21Davina McCall:I love the story about you answering the phone sometimes for your dad. Oh, it has to. If they went out, I didn't have to tell my dad, but any messages. And I'd be like, yeah, I took a person. I said, Dad. And then I took over because he needed someone. It was all to do with like property and travel in America. So lots of property and brochures. Again, this is all before websites and everything else. They used to print the brochure out of the villa and used to post it off. and then after a while because I was doing graphics and IT at school I would do all the layouts for him and then I would do all the printouts for him he would pay me to do all the printouts and logos and brochures and work all the IT out for him and so I was kind of part of it but yeah so I just I saw that work ethic and it's my dad obviously was kind of an entrepreneur entrepreneur, never had a boss, my cousin doesn't, my sister and her husband don't, I don't.
21:20Davina McCall:Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So you just grew up in that environment. Yeah. The idea of actually going to work in an office was just not, it's not going to happen. No, no, yeah. And you control everything yourself, which probably might sound more romantic than it actually is, but the pressures of doing it. So starting your own, I mean, even when I did WorldWare, I was very reluctant because there's a difference to starting a brand with M &S and having the M &S power behind you but doing it by yourself and having investments and also starting and it has been the toughest thing. It really, really has.
21:52So my dad used to work over in Kent when we grew up in Essex so my mum... Whereabouts? Well, he was swandly.
21:59Davina McCall:Okay. I'm just over... I'm a Tunbridge Wells girl. He always used to make the joke of he watched about however many years he worked at a company he'd be like in the queues for the Dartford tunnel which were terrible and he watched the Dartford bridge being made and on the day he literally drove over he quit the job and started his own campana um so he uh yeah i mean so they used to dad used to drive from swanley mum used to drive us um with the dog um in the up to london they used to live in barking so we did that every friday and i always used to joke on the way home my sister went my dad and i went my mom and they had slightly race home and my mom would have her mixed tapes of of soul and Yacht Rock in the night.
22:37That's why I still... Yacht Rock? Yacht Rock.
Read the full transcript
22:39Davina McCall:What's that? Hall of Notes. Stop it. You know what Yacht Rock is? No! Just my favourite. Playlist immediately. Michael McDonald. Love Yacht Rock. Yeah. Yacht Rock Radio. Who knew? What? There's not a Rock Yacht Rock Radio. I think there is one of them. If you're on one of the digital internet ones, yeah, there is. It's just fab. I want that. Absolutely fab. Those are my favourite peoples. Doobie Brothers? Of course. I mean, my name is Steph. My partner just looks at me like I'm... What is this? Is she younger than you? Yeah, six years younger. Oh, my husband's six years younger than me. Yeah. We won, right?
23:14Davina McCall:Exactly. Amazing. I'd like to talk to you about meeting Steph and what she's done for you, because what was your... I don't need to go into love life or anything, but, you know, did you have lots of different girlfriends? Did you have a couple of big, serious girlfriends? Or was Steph like the one almost immediately? Did you know? I won't go into it. I very much say that my world was work and the brand and what I wanted to build. It was quite, I wasn't horrible. I wasn't selfish. I've been in relationships. I'm always quite giving. But with that is I would probably adapt my life around that person.
23:50You couldn't actually do that. It had to be solidly, this is what I'm doing. This is why I'm going. I'm on 90 flights a year. I'm not around.
23:57Davina McCall:90 flights a year. We don't go on holiday. They, you know, it was, that was at the Christmases I was so exhausted that, you know, even with my own family, my parents would go to Spain and see my sister. And I'd be like, I can't travel anymore. I would just, I would be on a house of my own a couple of Christmases. At Christmas. But it wasn't, you know, it was actually quite lovely. Like, we'll have the dog, we'll go for walks. And there was no one around, you know, it's like annoying it. when you're in an industry as well is, yes, you're alone a lot of the time, but you're virtually going to a different job with different people and entertaining every one of those 90 flights is some different.
24:31And you're exhausted by the end of it.
24:33Davina McCall:And also, I would imagine on a flight, everybody wants to talk to you because by that point, you're famous, right? Yeah, I mean, sometimes. What are you smiling about, David? No, I was just thinking. What are you thinking? No, it was always the, because I was flying so much, I got to know so many of the, because I'd been on the same flight as the cabin crew. And they were like, are you on again? You're flying more than us. And they would sort of get to know me and they didn't even know what I'd lay there. They were like, Shabley? I was like, thanks so much. Or we're out of Shabley. Stop drinking Shabley.
25:02I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. Funny. Oh, my God, so they knew what you drank. I was laughing there about people recognising me because I was once behind Brad Pitt and was making me laugh because Brad Pitt was watching his own film and I was watching the film together, but Brad Pitt was in front of me on the flight.
25:20Davina McCall:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Brad Pitt was watching a Brad Pitt movie? He was watching a Brad Pitt movie. Maybe he'd never seen it, which made me a kind of laugh. I didn't speak to him. Can I just say something, though? I quite love him for that. No, absolutely. Did you do him at all? No, I would have. I love Brad Pitt. I would have liked to have played with Brad Pitt on the flight. Brad? Yeah. shabby you film shit God you two together I wouldn't say what a reckoning that would be get off the plane like David Gandy and Brad Pitt together but I was thinking though it was the difference like I was I had gold cards I was travelling so much I had gold cards on Virgin and BA and everything like it was just mad what was that film not with George Clooney yes that was basically my life literally you were kind of able to totally hustle every airport.
26:13And you would look and you'd go, not getting on that queue. I bet that's the one there. It was perfect. I love travelling. I mean, I absolutely adore it. And that still seems the normal to me. I mean, after we've had children, it did change and it purposely changed so I could be around. But if I'm on a flight again and I'm back in, that's where I feel like myself again. I'm like, okay, back to the normal.
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27:16Davina McCall:Give it a try. Download Salee in the App Store or by scanning the QR code that's on your screen right now. And for a cheeky 15 % off your first purchase, you can use the code DAVINA at checkout. That's DAVINA for 15 % off. You know when you've got that little idea in the back of your mind, something that you think, you know what, I might do that one day. And then life gets kind of busy and it just sort of stays there. Well, I was thinking about how sometimes overwhelming it can feel when you actually try to start something. Design, writing, photography, payments, tech, all of it. It's a lot. Well, Shopify, whose sponsors Begin Again, sort of takes that chaos and it makes it feel achievable because it gives you a place to build your shop without needing to be an expert.
28:09Davina McCall:It's got templates, it's got tools that help you write product descriptions and nudge you along a bit when you get stuck. It means that you can just start. If you've been sitting on an idea or you could just maybe have a look, try it out. Go to shopify.co.uk. If you want to, you can sign up for£1 per month trial and you could actually start selling right away. Learning a little bit about you. I was kind of interested to hear that you were shy, really, as a kid. Just to them. Are you? So you would consider yourself an introvert? Yeah, I mean, what was the... I was reading something the other day that there's no such thing, introvert, extrovert, all those different things anymore.
28:57And there was one in between.
28:59Davina McCall:There's a middle ground. Yeah, I heard about that. You can go to a party and you can be the life of the party and have to be that life of the party. But then you have to have two days by yourself. Yeah. So you, when you need to be, you can be. But actually, yeah. Were you when you were a kid? Or were you just shy? No, I was shy. So you've learnt. I hate you having my photo taken. That sounds the weirdest thing in the world. What? Still? If someone comes up to me now and says, can we have a photo or can we do a photo? and I'm still like literally like that. Oh, my God. And it's the weirdest thing.
29:33You've been in the industry for 25 years. That's different. When you're on a set, that's sort of but having your photo taken is a – I barely have anything, any photos of me around the house or anything. Like it's quite a weird thing.
29:45Davina McCall:Do you find it hard to look at photos of yourself? I criticise them a lot. Do you? So I just absolutely – I'm going to have to rip them to pieces. Yes, yes. Also, especially when I'm on the creative side of it now. so you know I'm taking a shot over here with the team and the crew but I've come up with a craze so I'm checking it to go no that's not right let's move let's do this well that's great so I'm just having to pick so I don't see it I think I know a good picture I don't even see me I just see the whole thing I said yep the clothes look amazing the lights look amazing that background yep as a whole I still believe in incredible creative and shots Yes.
30:25And so that's different. And, but yeah, so I, yeah, I just criticize what I see somewhere and trying to improve it. You know, that, I mean, after 25 years, I know we would recognize on set that I would know where a shot should be, but you can't ever tell a photographer, you go, just by the way, I think I know where this should be. Yes. I'm never going to do that. But you do. So what I used to do... was a problem we can't get this shot this is a problem i'd be like which over there so i would just go i'm just going to sit over here so i'm going to sit in the position and then they see the light and they go oh my god i'm a genius this is amazing this is let's do a shot here
31:06Davina McCall:so that's why i'd be like yeah that's great um i i because what i'm quite interested um in you as a kid because as a parent you are in a wonderful time of parenting now what your your girls are four and seven yeah and my youngest has just turned 19 and i keep thinking if i could go back and do it all again i would tomorrow yeah because i would be so much more relaxed and what i'm what i'm hearing now if if there's anybody watching with with young kids you know you were shy but look at you look at you now like don't stress about it because it it it would make it worse i was talking to um two good friends of um matilda they're twins one of them is a great friend i was talking to the dad the other day and he we were saying that how the twins the girls were completely different one loves her own space will do her homework the other one can't get to their own but needs to be around people and that is a bit like also it's a bit like me and steph steph gets energy from people from parties from and it takes it it saps my energy so i need to i'll to go off on my own this was a very hard thing to explain to Steph when we first started dating this is very very like me and my husband I totally get that yeah I also heard that you go to the cinema on your own you know when you're traveling so much you don't often have people to go and do something with or you've been around so many people I just kind of want to go to the cinema yeah you don't speak to anyone on the cinema that was always my logical explanation you don't sit there and talk I tell you what is quite scary if you ever go to cinema and no one else is in there no one else turns up for the movie once I did that in a really big cinema and I was looking around going now it's turned into a bit creepy that was a bit scary but no I would just be on my own it doesn't bother me, it never bothered me when I was a kid I used to venture as well I think my mum thought I was a runner or something at points I used to go off and I needed stuff done and things needed to be done You'd go off on your own and do it.
33:17I would go off and the freedom, they realised that I needed that. I think that's when I got to, I very much followed the trend and went to university and felt entrapped. I mean, I was felt entrapped at school, but at uni I'd be like, hang on, how many hours have we got? We're 10 hours a week, but we're here all week. I would just take the car, I'd be driving to go and see other people or go and do whatever I needed to do. It felt very restrictive to me.
33:44Davina McCall:Okay, guys, I need you in my Begin Again gang. Listen, it's the most funnest, most awesome club in the whole world, and I want you to be part of it. So when you sign up to our newsletter, you get all the bits that I don't share anywhere else. Things that I'm loving, what I'm reading, my favourite outfits, some of the most gorgeous Begin Again stories that you've sent in. I actually really love reading those. It's one of my favourite parts of the week. And the really fun bit is I will also share some begin again secrets, like what guests we've got coming up. And you'll know before anyone else does.
34:27Shh, don't tell everyone.
34:28Davina McCall:So come and join the best gang ever. The link's right below. And it just takes five seconds and it's free. and the other really big thing I think I'd like to talk to you about is the fact that you you were a bit sporty but you weren't jock you know you weren't the kind of team captain but you no but you you were a bit overweight when you were a kid and then you grew so again for parents don't stress about it help them eat healthily get them active what what were your parents ever worried about that? Did they try and talk to you about it or did they just let you go? No, because there's nothing.
35:08I wasn't sitting around on video games and I was, I mean, I never sit still. I drive, so I step around, you know, around the bend. Last week, you know, she would wake up and go, she needs nine, ten hours of sleep and I'm there, like, in the morning, waking up and she goes into a room and she went, have you built Tabs' new bed? I'm like, yeah. Couldn't sleep last. Bored, I started at midnight and finished at half past four and I built the bed.
35:31Davina McCall:How many hours do you sleep a night? I mean, I can like probably six, but I can live on four. I don't even think about it. But again, traveling in the cemetery for 25 years, you live on a nap. You live on a couple of hours on a plane. There's no these days going, oh, my aura ring only told me I've had six hours of bad sleep. I'm like, so? That's my, and I'm probably in old school. I'm like, get on with it. But it's one of these things when people, because I won't be up early in the morning. I'm not a morning person. So when people say to me, and I often look, they say, well, I got up at 4 o 'clock or 5.40 in the night.
36:13And I go, what are you doing? And I know it might be training or something else. But my idea is that because we're still working with the American market and sometimes we are still having to deal with LA time and be on the phone at 11 o 'clock is the equivalent of the afternoon. So that's what it's working. Yeah, it's quite hot. work to but when everyone's in bed and will sleep that's when i get so much done michael my partner
36:36Davina McCall:often gets people asking him about me and um and they go yeah but she's addicted to exercise isn't she she's addicted to it and he's like and the thing that's wrong with that bad about that yeah um and i just wondered what people's perception of you was because i think it's quite interesting about modelling that modelling went from, when I started, it was all about the body, the David Donald, you know, you had to be a 40 regular but buff as anything, like absolutely rock solid everywhere. And then it suddenly changed and everybody needed to be skinny men. That's what I came into. Yeah, so tell me what that was like for you because it's quite, You know, women, we all go, they asked you to lose weight.
37:27Davina McCall:But actually, male models get that too. Yeah, I mean, I didn't. But I mean, I wasn't fitting anything. Not what I would call a big size. I was a 40, you know, a 40 regular. And, but yeah, it was a stage of going to castings. And I wouldn't be able to get the trousers past my thighs. I was like, oh, the big guys coming in. And I wasn't big, especially at that stage, I got bigger. And there was a kind of side to me that went, I needed, I knew what I wanted to be and what made me feel good in myself and confident. And that to me was being fit and being healthy and training and learning. I couldn't play sports anymore because we were traveling.
38:14I was traveling so much. And so it was the gym. and so I actually would say that when Dolce came up with this creative, they wanted this bigger, more classic-looking Mediterranean, more muscular guy that the actual pond to fish from at that point wasn't big because everyone had followed the training and gone skinnier and I had gone the other way.
38:34Davina McCall:When did you start training? I always did some at school because I was playing a lot of sports. Oh, you did do a lot of sports then? Oh, yeah, I played everything I could to be outside the classroom. Yeah, absolutely everything. Football, rugby, anything, athletics. I did it all, as I said, to get out of the classroom. Actually, what more men need, if I'm what more boys need, is more and more sport, more and more competitive sport. Get them out of the classroom and get them. Men are still the same way. So the same thing with, I've got two girls. I can see boys and I see men as, you know, exhaust them, feed them.
39:12they're happy in in many ways and make sure they're appreciative and and uh or you're appreciative of them and they're uh they're we're fairly simple creatures sometimes but my goals are the same we're biking we're in the you know we're in richmond park we're hunting for toads we're climbing where we're currently you know just learn all the way to cycle so on the bikes and that's kind of my idea of i'm so against you know kids just sitting around on yeah on don't get me wrong on laptops and doing my own films, but just trying to get them off the screen. So I'm constantly, my kids choose it. They're like, Daddy, where are you going?
39:50And they can be indoors. And we say, look, have an hour. Just chill, either on a pad or watching a film. And they're like, where are you going? I'm like, going outside to do some garden. They're like, can we come? And they get their gardening gloves on and come and help me destroy the garden. And they think that's more fun.
40:05Davina McCall:What you've done really, because your parents really loved you, but they weren't massively present. They were working. They were working, yeah. All hours of the day and night. But what you are, it sounds like, is very present. You've changed. Well, I think we have to be. I think we are the first. I say we are the first generation of dads to have to be more present in every way, whether that's schooling, whether it's cooking, whether it's shopping, whether it's those the roles have have not changed they've just evolved a little bit um and why is that so important i mean whether it is important or whether it's not everyone's different i'm not saying that's a good thing i'm not saying it's a bad thing i'm not saying it works for some couples it doesn't work for others it's just completely whatever works for you adapt it but don't try and i think people say well if a husband doesn't do that he's a bad person that's what works in that relationship and vice versa but everyone is trying to pigeonhole people on how something should be but I think being present for your children and I've made that a purpose in my life for the first sort of six seven years for me to be around and be involved not not to have to leave it to Steph and Steph's working she's a barrister as well so we do have to juggle those roles and be a proper partnership to our children if Luke could sign I don't think me and Steph have got a balance right between, you know, we haven't had that much time because we don't have...
41:31Davina McCall:You and Steph together. Steph together. Can I say something? As an elder stateswoman, I'm ahead of you and our children, our youngest of our five blended kids is 19. We've now got time. And that starts a bit earlier, you know, it starts when you can go out for a night or maybe away for a night and all the kids look after you. it's mega but it's under different people's circumstances that some people have parents nearby and they're going to say we've never had that, you know, the closest are two hours away, other parents are five hours away, so it's hard and we've never had that luxury, so that's something we've had, we have decided to sacrifice for our children and to be honest with you, we love experiencing everything with our children and that's something my mum and dad taught to me is like travel wise, we had a very normal upbringing.
42:24We didn't when it came to travel because my dad thinks it's David Attenborough II. So he literally would, and we would just be in these incredible holidays. We just don't really appreciate that, but we were in the Amazon rainforest catching piranha. We were in Brooks Falls with the brown bears clapping our hands so they know you're here. We're in every part of Africa, desert elephants, trekking gorilla. Borneo, we've been in with the orangutans. we've been everywhere around the world so my dad in some way my mum and dad because they in some ways with education guiding us into probably careers or universities they never did it they couldn't do it but dad was just like I knew how much we could be taught through travel through different you know different cultures seeing how beautiful was that for you you don't realise at the time at all but I did once meet Dave in Attenborough and What?
43:19How? We were, it was an event I went to go and support for him. He lives in Richmond. He says Richmond is one of his, of all the places he's been, Richmond is one of his favourite places in the world. I met him, I'm probably, I think I was, we were moving to Richmond. I said, we're moving to Richmond. And then I started to talk about, because, you know, his famous trip with the gorillas being around gorillas. I said, I came back like a few years ago and I tracked for gorillas, like all piranets, and we were talking about that, like no one in the room could. And I called dad and just said, Did you?
43:47Yeah, yeah. I was like, I've never, you know, sort of mentioned it. But I also said to him once when I was about 17, 18, and I had a very crappy 10-year-old Ford Fiesta. And I said to my dad once, I said, Dad, we're off going to Alaska, I think. And I said, could I instead, they're very expensive, but I could probably do with a new car. So could I not have the money towards, you know, the holiday, have a new car? My dad, I don't think he probably looked at me from his desk, and he just went, well, you don't have to come on holiday, David, but you're not getting money for a new car. So I decided, are you staying here for summer or are you coming with us?
44:20I went, I think I might come with you. Good decision. Get out of my office. And it was, but again, listen, that's mentoring. That's...
44:29Davina McCall:Yes. You don't need a flash car. That's not about it. What you're going to learn from is, you know, watching a glacier and going kayaking by a glacier in Alaska. And you're like, yeah, you look upon that now and go, yeah, you're right. And that's having someone, a mentor in your life or having someone to guide you. not mental, but a guidance in that part of your life. I mean, I'd like to talk to you about your work around men and masculinity and how important that is to you and how lost a whole generation of young men are. Because I think, and I'm so excited to hear you talk about it as a man, because women have had this great opportunity to start working and have a great career and we bear the children, but we are in a partnership and men are just trying to find their way into how do I fit in, you know, to the family if I'm not fully the provider anymore and how does it work?
45:34Davina McCall:And it is difficult for men to find their feet. Can you just talk to me a bit about how it was that you realised that? And I quickly want to just discuss about the kind of the generation of your father and mother. They were not the generation to be effusive with I love you's and I'm so proud of you. Not like us. So, you know, it's all good and well for us to go, but they never told us they were proud. They just didn't do it. But they they were. Right. Like what? What was it that made you kind of look at men and think, actually, do you know what? we're struggling or young men are struggling to find their place.
46:14Well, first, my parents never needed to tell me they loved me because they were there when I needed them. They were present when I need them to be present. No, I mean, from the Lost Boys campaign, which is what I'm working on with the Centre for Social Justice, the CSJ.
46:35Davina McCall:Please, could you just tell everyone about that because this is important? really important well this was i've been talking about male suicide for a long time um really opening up about any dark periods i have had about how i've got over them i think hopefully talking to experts how you can there isn't any one uh whatever sort of problem solving behind it um or any solutions to it but i always feel like it's nice to feel that other people are going through or whatever. And we are talking... We could do a whole podcast on it. It's kind of changing men. Yes, men do need to talk, and I believe in that, but biologically men don't.
47:22And this is a thing you have to understand.
47:24Davina McCall:It's not natural to you like it is to women. No, no, no, no, it's not. I think hopefully men are getting better, but it's a very easy thing to say men could talk because they simply don't. And a lot of the time, there's a lot of people that don't want to listen to them or listen to what they have to say. And if they do in this world, they'll probably criticise them because they'll say something that they don't like. And then that's the end of conversation. So I think it's a very difficult thing. So I've been saying it for a while. It's the biggest killer. It was the biggest killer of men under 40.
47:52It was the biggest killer of men under 45. It's now the biggest killer of men under 50, so I believe. So it isn't getting better. No. It's getting worse. And so the CSJ approached me and said about this lost, we talk about the lost generation of boys between 16 and 24 that have pretty much been demonized and told that they are a massive problem. Toxic masculinity has been brought into such a conversation now, which wasn't probably 10 years ago, 15, wasn't even heard of, but it's been brought around by social media. So I grew up with this toxic masculinity.
48:33Davina McCall:Can I say one thing? Sometimes when I hear that phrase, I think, what would it feel like if somebody attached the word toxic to femininity? And it's like poisoning the essence of you. Like it's, I understand what people mean by it. And it's a mindset of a certain people who are frightened and don't know what to do or where to go. And it feels unhelpful, I think, that phrase in some way. It is very unhelpful. And we're talking about in a sense that when you're talking about, so if you're talking maybe on a sports field, you're talking about the competitiveness of a man on a sports field. and they'll go, he's so competitive, he's the dominance of this team, the dominance of that character, the hard work, all those different things on a football field.
49:31Now, that is male biological traits. That's a lot of them are. And what you're trying to say is you can't have them. Outside of maybe the football field, you're saying if there's elements of that, that it's toxic and that's rubbish and that's the difference of it. So you're on a one young men being told they're toxic. And a lot of young women are being taught that they are toxic. This was part of the CSJ's report saying, actually, that a large percentage of sixth formers are being, or schools are being told that men are toxic and they are a problem. It's clearly being said this on social media.
50:15I think that's what we're being fed. And then you've got the statistic that something about 60 % of young women are frightened of young men. And so when these stats started coming in, and I was like, well, this is... And it was actually from schools. Schools approached the CSJ to say, there is a problem here with our men. They're not confident. They don't know what to do. They're falling behind in education. They're falling behind on all levels of communication. and then you're seeing what I was then talking about and I did a lot of research on was the manosphere and what Louis Thruers has done a brilliant documentary on but actually I had to do my research before going to the House of Parliament talking about what I was talking about the Lost Boys I didn't really understand what that was obviously we know the names of Andrew Tate and so CSJ gave me a number of links a number of people to look at and I did a bit of a deep dive into it and couldn't quite believe.
51:12Davina McCall:Yeah. It's not that I couldn't quite believe it because I look at a lot of social media and think, what a load of crap or what are people watching? So we've got to understand that it's part of social media and what they are spewing is immature insecurities of what they are saying. But what came out of the Luther through documentary, what came out of that is like, Yeah, if you're unregulated on social media and you can make money from saying it and people following you, you're going to say it because they're making vast amounts of money from it. You're going to do it. What you have to understand is you have to educate those guys to say, so their content is crap, but their, how can you put it, their way that they are talking to young men, you have to admire because they are talking to young men.
52:07Davina McCall:And the young men are listening. And no one else is. So why are young men to do it? What you do is you need a lot of good people, mentors, positive people to rein that in and sort of say, look, you have to realize that this is crap. Or you do a very simple thing. What I'm all against is you take under 16 year olds off of social media altogether and you ban it. Did you just say you're against it? No, I'm for it. Oh, you're for it. Absolutely for it. I've been for it. I'm against social media. Yes. Somebody described it the other day as you can see your kids changing. You can shut them in the house.
52:44Davina McCall:You can shut the doors. So keep them safe. But there's one door you can't open that once they go into their bedroom. There's another door inside their bedroom and you can't get to that one because they're in their bedroom. Everything you have tried to protect your children from outside when we close that door, You're literally handing them that times whatever on that screen time. Okay, so David, let's just talk about what people can do. So women, men, people need to speak out and be mentors and be positive around young men. Give us talk. The CSJ have suggested there's not enough role models in men, men role models.
53:31There was a lot of young men growing up without a stable family, without a father in their life. I will argue against that slightly of it just relying on being men because my mentor, as we've gone back to, was Tandy Anderson. So I think this is something that mums and dads and uncle and aunts and everyone can get involved in helping them. And, you know, maybe you can ask this, are we actually talking about anything positive about masculinity at the moment there are so many positives of masculinity so many um and i'm coming from this to me you'd you'd probably think if you were listening to me that i've got two sons and i'm worried about it i've got two daughters um but i'm worried the fact that the way my daughters will will be taught like i think a lot of we're looking at social media which i hopefully they will never um under my watch talk about men and how to it's about treating people it's about having respect for both of us about men and women so i've never wanted to make this a they and them situation it's all of us involved to talk about masculinity in a positive way like we do with women and guys and not have this yes there are toxic men not denying that whatsoever there are also toxic women but we're just focusing on this small demographic and people making monies from it And they're, you know, very insecure little men that are trying to take the innocence, which you are at a younger age, and the insecurity of those men and manipulate them into many ways.
55:05And you are so vulnerable at that stage that it takes someone good to go, no, no, hang on. This is not the way you treat people. This is not the way you speak about women. This is not the way you speak about people. Become a gentleman. and become, you know, there are certain traits that we need to instill into young men again. What was becoming peculiar to me was situations like this or interviews, people wanting me to define masculinity. That's why I thought it was very strange. And everyone's, the narrative was define masculinity. What's masculinity? And I wasn't going to define that. I don't, I've always said I'm not sure if I really can define it.
55:40There are traits of good people. And that's the most important thing. But it's a very complicated subject. It's guidance.
55:51Davina McCall:I think you said it earlier. You said about Tandy being, you know, your mentors. A lot of people don't have it. That's the difference. But then we owe it to kids to be guides online. And there aren't enough. You just said that. You're so right. More people have got to just go out with kind of just advice and tips and hints. The thing is, I think, just stop demonizing, beating down on young men and they won't look for that outlet. I think that is a massive problem. Stop telling them they are toxic and they are the problem and talk about the positives of it. As I say, I have two young daughters.
56:30Now, all our books are about what women have achieved in life and the brilliant women in the world. And of course, I want to teach my daughters that. We also need to teach about what people have done, what men have done, what we've all achieved together. Not making it an us and them and his and her, but we live in a very polarised world. So that's what I'm trying to get across to people. It's got to be equal. Yeah.
56:53Davina McCall:Let's look at everybody. Well, that's what equality is. Let's praise everybody. Absolutely. What I'd like to do is tell you a little bit of a funny story. So I was reading about how you, growing up, sort of decided that you wanted to look nice. and I really appreciate that in you. Am I right in saying it makes you feel good about yourself? It gives you confidence. Yes, it gives you confidence. It gives you a little bit of a pep in your step. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely, yeah. And I got to the lift today to come to work and I had my back with me and I was just waiting for the lift and I looked down at my shoes and I was like, fuck.
57:31Davina McCall:I had to go back into the flat and polish my shoes for you because you said that you enjoy polishing your shoes with your girls. I do. I don't think these are... That is so cute. Well, they just... Yeah, I have a little... A friend bought me a shining kit. And once I was sitting there and I was polishing my shoes... Because I was taught, you polish your shoes, you look after your... It's not about... But it's self-care. Yeah, you have shining... My grandad did and my dad did. Because, I know this is going to sound like a stupid catchphrase, but because you're worth it. do you know what I mean it's not for anybody else it's not because you want to impress anybody else it's for you there's a satisfaction about doing it and having shiny shoes David I love you I do thank you I really really do this was absolutely great you are very inspiring and this is going to be amazing for a lot of people you've helped a lot of people so thank you But anyway, well, thank you.
58:35Thank you.
58:36Davina McCall:So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.
From the publisher
Are We Failing Young Men?
In this episode of Begin Again, David Gandy opens up about masculinity, mentorship, and the reality behind becoming the world’s highest-paid male model. From feeling like he didn’t fit the mould to building one of the most iconic careers in fashion, David reflects on insecurity, identity, and what young men really need in a world that often sends them the wrong message.
But this conversation goes far beyond modelling. David speaks candidly about shyness, insecurity, self-criticism, and the strange contradiction of becoming one of the most photographed men in the world while still hating having his picture taken. He shares how those early feelings shaped him, how he learned to channel them, and why confidence is often far more complicated than it looks from the outside.
The episode also explores masculinity, mentorship, and why so many young men are struggling to find their place. David reflects on the role models that shaped him, the importance of guidance, and why he believes we need a more positive conversation around masculinity, respect, and responsibility. Rather than blaming or dividing, he argues for better examples, stronger values, and more honest conversations about what young men actually need.
At its core, this is a conversation about identity, resilience, and what it means to stay in control of your life and career in a world that is always trying to define you.
🌟 Follow for more honest conversations about identity, growth, and beginning again.
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(00:00) Intro
(01:09) The Modelling Industry in the Early 2000s
(02:55) A Message From David’s Agent and Mentor
(09:38) David on Defying Expectations and Landing Dolce & Gabbana (13:51) David’s New Partnerships With M&S and Jaeger Menswear
(18:40) David on His Parents and Upbringing
(23:06) Balancing Relationships and Career
(26:37) Saily Ad
(27:33) Shopify Ad
(28:34) Overcoming Shyness and Insecurities
(34:38) How Modelling Shaped David Long-Term
(37:01) Changing Body Standards in Modelling
(39:04) David on His Daughters and Modern Parenting
(42:27) David on His Relationship With His Dad
(44:51) Supporting Young Men and Addressing Male Suicide
(48:15) Toxic Masculinity and the Demonisation of Young Men
(50:43) What’s Happening With the Manosphere?
(53:08) The Need for Positive Role Models for Young Men
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