Gisèle Pelicot: After Everything That Happened... I Didn’t Expect To Fall In Love Again  | Pt. 2

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1:26Davina McCall:Giselle Pellico became known publicly in 2024 when she waived her right to anonymity in the sexual assault case that shocked France and the world. Today, she joins me to share her story. This episode does include details of Giselle's case, parts of which may be difficult for some of you. So please watch with care. This conversation was recorded in both French and English. On YouTube, you can choose how to watch using the language options below. This is part two of her story. Monsieur Pellicot started to drug and rape you in 2011. It's difficult to comprehend how a man can be so unbelievably manipulative that you felt guilty about accusing him of something that he was actually doing.

2:19Davina McCall:When did you find out about that? It took time for them to find the proof on his laptop, on his phone, and I learned that 2nd of November 2020. What went through your mind, your heart, your body when you saw that? I think my brain kind of stopped. I dissociated. What was it like to have people not believe you? Well, I think for them it was terrifying to think to themselves that a husband, I mean, it's terrifying to think that you can live with somebody and think that you really know them, and then you don't know this man at all. And I think that also must have been disturbing. In other words, that I kind of disturbed by doing all this.

3:03I understand that because today the person, in fact, who examined me in Versailles, she said, you know, my husband, when he brings me croissant in the morning, I think, oh, he's nice. I'm wondering if he's not like your husband. And so, of course, I reassured her. I said, no, not all husbands and not all men are rapists and perverts. You've also got to reassure. But the fact that you talk about it allows you also, because after all, this trial, in fact, freed up women's words who never dared speak before. I had many, many women who said, thank you. Thanks to you, I'm going to have the strength to do so.

3:36And I felt that was brilliant because I thought, well, at least your story will help others. there always has to be somebody who really in fact kicks you and tells you in fact to do this and now I'm handing over to others and I believe we're going to change society. I made people more aware and I think it's something that's got to be done. Society's got to move and I think that in fact I have confidence, I have trust in the young generation because they're involved and these men, there were men who came to say thank you, thank you madame because I look at women differently.

4:09Davina McCall:I think one of the, as a mother, I also have three children, one of the most heartbreaking moments for me was reading about you trying to tell your children what had happened. and they're all adults, you know, they've got their own children and they, like you, have been under the impression that they have this great dad, grandfather and you know that you have to go and burst the bubble and how, I mean, you know, it's something that you literally just can't imagine what that was like But how was it that moment before you told them where you thought, OK, I've got to change my children's lives forever and then telling them what was that like?

5:02It was the most painful time of my life to call my children, to tell them what her father had done, that he was in custody. And that image, or at least I can still hear my daughter scream because everything collapsed. It was a total deflagration, my life and their lives. and I think for the children it was even more difficult because it was their father. They had a certain complicity with their father, a lot of connivance with their father and then suddenly everything collapsed, their pedestal. How could this individual betray us to that extent? How could he lie to us? So of course hate and anger was legitimate but I tried to contain it.

5:43I didn't want everything to explode and it was a way of protecting myself. I tried to protect my children but I wasn't able to do so because one got the impression that we were not on the same side. They were downstream, I was upstream, but it was really complicated for everybody at the time. And of course, a deflagration that really carried everything away because suffering, in fact, we're no longer a family. We all try to protect each other and then to see how we can rebuild. We needed time. We needed a lot of time now. Our relations have really been much better. We're united. We're united more than ever because it really has united us.

6:21But at the same time, at one point, the family exploded. But fortunately, our family is now getting together again. And I know that for some people, the rupture is such that they never get together again. And that's something also I want to know, for people to know, you've got to be able to respect each other's suffering.

6:45Davina McCall:I think this is something that I admire about you so much from the book. is your understanding that my feelings are my feelings, but yours may be different because of your childhood, your upbringing. You're very open to understanding that not everybody's going to feel the same way. I think one of the other things that you talked about in the book is about all the different ways that the children dealt with it, but you wanted to stay in your house after for a while. And I was so interested by that, that even though you'd seen footage of you unconscious being attacked by these men in your own bed, but your bed was still a place of safety, Can you explain how that felt?

7:51Davina McCall:What did your bedroom feel like to you after you'd seen all of that footage? Even when I came back from the police station, I saw those three photographs, and I couldn't imagine it was reality. And so when my children came to see me, because I slept with a friend on the day when the flags were revealed, and then I went back home and my children joined me. So in the evening, my daughter asked me to speak with her, and I knew if I was going to sleep with her, I was going to really collapse. I didn't want to collapse. So I slept in the bed of rape because I still felt that it was my bedroom. It was my area where I felt protected.

8:30I still hadn't realized the horror of what I had undergone in that room. And, you know, you've got mechanisms, defense mechanisms you can't even master sometimes. But I got into bed and I slept on my side of the bed without realizing all the horrors. Of course, I saw the videos afterwards in May 2024, in other words, four years after the fact. And when I see the videos and I can see all these horrible scenes and these scenes of barbarism, which are unbearable, intolerable. I think, how could I have slept in that bed? And that's something that I would never have done if I'd really seen all the videos.

9:05But at the time, when I only saw those two photographs, I couldn't possibly envisage what had been done to me in that bedroom. I mean, it just also means that, obviously, for anybody that doubted if you could remember or not, you really couldn't remember anything that happened to you.

9:24Davina McCall:And in a way, in the book, you were almost grateful to Monsieur Pellicot for rendering you unconscious. so you don't have any recollection of the horrors that happened to you. It's funny, isn't it, because you were talking about being a cup-half-full woman and that is what you mean, that even out of this terrible disaster, you can see something positive. Yes, I didn't want to collapse because if I collapsed then they would have won. They would have really won and that wasn't acceptable. I'd like to talk to you a bit about your journey to, you had originally decided that you were going to stay anonymous and that you were going to just keep it within the court.

10:12Davina McCall:But then quite late on, you made the decision to go public. Could you just explain why that was? So my daughter, in fact, said I was right to oppose anonymity. So I went for long walks and I came home and I talked about it was my new partner. And I said to him, you know, I've decided, in fact, to oppose anonymity. He said, whatever your decision is, I will follow you. I called my lawyers who were surprised because I said to them, initially, it was going to be total anonymity. They said to me, think about it. And I said, no, when I make a decision, I don't come back on it. J 'imagine. J 'imagine, vous êtes fat.

10:51And I thought, let's go for it. And of course, I had to prepare myself. And they said, well, Giselle, you're going to have to look at the videos, because you're going to see them in court. So that's when I asked to wait a bit of time. And then I sort of locked myself in my partner's office. And I looked at the videos, and my heart was beating. I thought my heart was going to sort of be torn out.

11:18And they asked me, do you want us to carry on showing them to you? And I said yes. but then I took time because after what I was seeing was something that was really unbearable, no pity they were all accomplices they were all very aware of what they were doing when they think in court they said no that in fact Mr. Pilico had controlled them because they were scared of Mr. Pilico that wasn't the case they were there very happy with what they were doing some of them putting thumbs up as though I was a trophy there's one who said well I thought that she was potentially dead in her bed but when I touched her she was hot So, you know, I heard some absolutely appalling things, but there's not a single one who decided not to do it.

11:56They all thought it was rather bizarre, but all of them stayed in that room. There wasn't a single person who went to denounce not even an anonymous letter. So they were all accomplices of Mr. Bericourt. He orchestrated everything. There's not one of them who said, you'd have thought there could have been a couple who said no. Oh, apparently there are two that decided not to go, but they didn't go and denounce and say what was happening. It's terrifying. It's terrifying to think that we're able to make this woman go through all these horrors without any pity whatsoever.

12:28Davina McCall:I think, you know, going through something, an experience like you have, it would be understandable for people to wonder how you can ever trust again and how you could ever love again. how did you come to find love after such a monstrous experience? Well that didn't happen straight away that happened three years later I had no intention of meeting anyone or fall in love I can guarantee you that but you don't necessarily decide on your destiny well yes and no and when beautiful things are brought to you you're going to grab them and I met this young man, this 73-year-old. I like to say young man because I believe that we're still young anyway and we fell in love and we weren't expecting it at all, neither he nor me.

13:26And to trust him, yes, that's the way I work. I believe you have to trust in human beings because not all human beings are perverts and rapists. I've got two sons and two grandchildren who are boys and they've been properly educated. Social media is a real danger. We've got to be able to control it, control those platforms that have appalling things that really damage our children's brains. We have to be vigilant. And so education, respect above all. And I have trust in humanity. I'm sure that we're made to live together. You mustn't set apart men and women. And the love is magical.

14:10Davina McCall:and even though he's in prison and you saw him in court um you never got to speak to monsieur pelicot personally but there are still questions you want answered um is it your wish your desire one day to see him and be able to sit down and ask him those questions and what do you want to know yes it's true i haven't been able to talk to him throughout the trial because after all i was dressing the chair of the court. Well, yes, that's also part of my modus operandi, to go and meet him. What I'm going to say to him, that's private, but I do need to do so. I don't know whether he'll answer. I don't know whether he'll tell me the truth, but to have betrayed us to that extent, to have harmed us so much, yes, but the question still remains.

14:55You talked earlier about being with Caroline here on this trip, your daughter, and I know that when

15:03Davina McCall:you both, when you told your children, you know, it was difficult for all of you, but that it's actually much better now. Is it nice to have found each other again and to be able to, yeah, get through it? Excuse me. yes because it was very painful but everything is okay and I don't like chronic no it doesn't matter it was a very painful moment for everybody and suffering was terrible for me and also I was terrible to make my children suffer but I know that they're better now I know that Caroline has still got some path to walk along but she's strong and she'll get there Are you proud of your kids?

15:59Oh, very proud.

16:01Davina McCall:I'm very proud of them. I'm their mother. I think sometimes when something really difficult happens to you, anger. Anger is one of the most destructive emotions. It can be very positive because it shows you when your boundary has been violated. but at the same time it can be super destructive for yourself. Just one last thing because I think lots of people go through great anger when they are attacked or raped or violated in some way. How did you process your anger? Well the difference is that I don't have any recollection. I wasn't suffering as a woman who had been raped and who remembers her rape, because then the trauma, in fact, carries on.

16:57All these young women I spoke to and women I met in France, I learned that in England there had been two adolescents, for example, who were raped. And, of course, the trauma is going to remain for those young women. Those young women are going to have to be really well accompanied to be able to repair themselves, and they have to be recognized as victims. I was lucky to be recognized as a victim straight away, but that's not the case for all the victims that are currently trying to fight against it. How do you restore yourself after that when you almost, in fact, see that you're the only one who holds the shame?

17:37I think that justice has got to be more rigorous. After all, justice is there to be able to name the crimes and to be able to support the suffering of these victims, and these acts mustn't remain unpunished because otherwise it's far too easy. You could just rape and go home as if nothing had happened. So society's got to evolve, justice's got to be more rigorous and the sentences have got to also be exemplary.

18:01Davina McCall:Can I just also say this book is a very difficult read at times but it's also full of hope and it's full of wisdom and it's full of great courage. You are an amazing woman. And I read this book because I felt I owed it to you after everything you've been through to read all of it, every word. Everyone should read this book for all the reasons because it's inspiring in every way. Of course, this book has transformed my life because I didn't think it would have such success, but I think it's for a good cause and I'll always be able to talk to people if there were a need to give them strength, if they needed to meet me.

18:58Davina McCall:Well, I know it must be a very strange life for you being Giselle Pellicot, the very famous French woman inspiring so many women to tell their story. or find courage. But I thank you from the bottom of all of our hearts for telling your story and being so brave. You've changed the world. What a legacy. What a begin again. I don't know if I changed the world, but if I got there, it's also because I was supported. All these women gave me an enormous amount of strength, and women who wrote to me, and I've got thousands of letters. Of course, I couldn't answer all of them, but I'd just like to say to them, thank you for everything you've done for me.

19:42And look around you. You're not the only ones. You're not on your own.

19:45Davina McCall:Well, that's a beautiful ending. I'm going to finish there. Madame Pellicourt, thank you so much. You are an amazing, amazing light. Sorry about my tears. No, thank you. That was incroyable.