Jake Humphrey on Grief, The Trauma Of Childhood Bullying & His Mission To Save Young Men

21:02Davina McCall:And hearing that Sarah talk about what she's always wanted to do and having gone through the journey with my Sarah, I'm telling you, Sarah, you can do this. Let's say yes more. In fact, I'm going to make it happen right now. I am going to call it the Say Yes Club. We take one thing that we've always wanted to do and we are actually going to do it. I'm going to put a link in the description for you to join us. And, you know, that's exactly the thing that Monzo is here to help you with. They put our money to work in the background, sorted, saved, sent to where it needs to go. So our energy is free to say yes to more things in life.

21:43Davina McCall:Monzo current accounts are for UK residents aged 16 plus T's and C's apply.

22:13Davina McCall:study of heart rate accuracy August 2026. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12. Ultra running shoes are all about space. The space to go further. To feel better. To do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with ultra fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, ultra fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're leasing up for, stay out there with Ultra. Shop now at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running dot com. Then, you know, you pivot brilliantly. So this opportunity didn't happen, but you pivot somewhere else.

22:55Davina McCall:You have then got into sports in such a major way. Yeah. Talk to me quickly about your time on F1 because that did sound completely magical. Yes, it was. Davina, it was. It was magical. I mean, it was a total shock for me to get that job, right? So I was working on kids TV at the time. And I don't remember when, but I knew I wanted to be a sports presenter. I knew that, like, Des Lynam was, like, the hero for me back in the day. So I knew I wanted to be the new Des Lynam. So I went to see the guys at BBC Sport and I met the head of talent. So wait, so did you kind of say, right, I want to come and meet you guys?

23:33Davina McCall:Yeah. Did you facilitate it? Yeah, that's right. So well done. Yeah, thank you. And so I knew I wanted to be a sports presenter. And I asked for a meeting and I met with the head of talent. And they said, like, tell me about your qualifications. And you do have a degree in journalism, which is what they were looking for at the time. And I was like, I don't. And then I told her the story of me getting an E and N and a U for my three A levels, thinking that she would think it's funny that I'd failed my exams at school. but it this is like bbc sport you know 20 years ago it just sort of created a frown more than anything and then she said but obviously if you've played sport to a professional standard we can also consider you and i was like well i played one game of football for the school football team ha ha ha and um she then said to me she said i saw you were hosting a mobster lobster this morning and our mobster lobster was a thing that we filmed in the blue peter garden i mean i do remember like this being a time of freedom like it was fun you know i'd dress up as a lobster i'd wear these big like foam claws with pins in and i'd run around the blue peter garden popping balloons with foam in them and if the caller got a small starfish it was five points and a big starfish it was 10 points i mean it's ridiculous right um but they said i saw you hosting mobster lobster this morning and i know it was like a pointed dig of like that's your thing and then they leant forwards and said, BBC Sport, don't employ people like you.

25:02I'm like a kid from a little village in Norfolk trying to shoot his shot here. And I was like, but you know what? And I firmly believe this. When I go back to the bullying, being fired from McDonald's.

25:17Davina McCall:Wait, that's a good one. We haven't actually probably talked about that. I mean, being fired from McDonald's. Tell everybody why that happened. I'm like a school teacher. Jake, tell everyone what you did to get fired from McDonald's. Well, it's what I didn't do, I think. I mean, they said a lack of communication skills. I can't, like, I literally can't think of a greater communicator than you. Well, I was cooking chips. I remember at the time I was thinking, I'm just literally cooking chips on an eight-hour shift here. I don't know who am I meant to communicate with. And it was kind of, like, funny.

25:50I remember my dad wrote them a letter and said, this is really hard for my boy. Oh, did he? Yeah, isn't that lovely? He stuck up for you. Yeah, he did. And I love that, actually. But still let me deal with it myself. But did write to them and say, come on. And actually I saw, I then got a job in a local hotel as a waiter, which I absolutely loved. And my manager at the time, I saw him in a petrol station not long ago. And he said, how are you getting on? I loved watching your career. I said, oh, thanks so much, Ray. He said, I remember when you first arrived, every day you'd ask me whether you're going to get fired.

26:23I said, did I? I have no memory of this. He's like, yeah, yeah. You were so worried that you were going to lose your job. Every shift you'd come to me and say, have I done a good enough job? Am I going to lose my job? I was 18. And I'm like, Ray, thank you so much, mate, for giving me the confidence because that is a memory that I've removed from my brain. I don't remember that moment at all. But obviously it was bothering me at the time. And then we also, you know, we can talk in detail if you wish. I lost my grandma to suicide around this time, which was tricky.

26:53Davina McCall:Just explain why, because it was after your grandfather died. Yeah, so we've spoken about. I mean, this is just so, so lovely. I talked to Michael about this when I read that, about the love of someone, that life's not worth living when you lose the love of your life. God, it was just so, must have been so difficult to lose both grandparents so close together, but also weirdly comforting that she was with him, you know. Yes, and like really amazing that she loved him so much that she didn't want to be without him. But very difficult, though, for the people that are left behind who feel that they're not enough.

27:39Davina McCall:Yeah. And it was interesting, actually. You know, I mentioned my dad had his hip operation. When he was kind of coming around from that and we were having this really deep chat about my grandma, He said, you know, she came to say goodbye to us all. And I was like, did she? And then I have this memory of her coming to our house that weekend. And you know, like you're a young kid and you're lost in your own world. I was revising for my A-levels and she came to see us. And I had zero idea, honestly, no idea. It was just for me another visit from grandma on the weekend, which was not uncommon. But I was working upstairs and she came past the door and she said, hi, love.

28:20I said, hi, grandma. She goes, don't think I can go on. And I went, of course you can. And then carried on working as you do. And I don't think I could have changed the outcome here, right? But you do wonder afterwards, you're like, God, why was I living such a, like a, how did I dismiss that moment so much? and that was at the weekend and then on the Tuesday we were having a family dinner and my dad had kind of called from his brother to say can you come and we think something's happened to mum and sadly they she lived in a lovely farmhouse in Winspeach and at the end was a ditch at the end of the road and my dad arrived and she was getting taken out of the ditch now my dad that was very hard for him and he went into a really dirty yeah yeah yeah yeah just closed up i think for a few years which is really very understandable you know the love of his life yeah so that was tough and it was only a few weeks after she passed away that i did my a-level exams um and i definitely don't think that i failed them because of that i thought i was a late developer davina i was like I was just chilled like I look at my kids now who are always doing things always busy always got interests I honestly went to school came home watched like Danger Mouse ate my tea and went to bed great cartoon but I was like I was just floating I really was just floating and I have to give huge credit to my parents for not push push push like they allowed me to be in this period and just find my own way so I then went to get my A level results and I remember opening my first envelope and it was an E and I thought well if I get two A's I've still got my place at uni I mean how ridiculous and then I got an N and a U so I got E and U for my three A levels but you know how we've spoken about like things that are hard and not necessarily bad and the fact that I wouldn't even be here if my grandfather hadn't had his tragic accident in the 60s I would also even if that happened and I was there and I'd pass my A-levels I also wouldn't be sitting here talking to you because I had to go back to school and do another year which again was building my resilience because I'm in a classroom with a load of kids that are younger than me and I'm having to kind of just accept the fact that I'm with these kids and the day that I went back a local TV channel wrote to the school to ask if kids studying politics would like to go onto a TV show and talk about politics.

31:05And I went into them. And the funny thing is, I turned up 24 hours early. Like I turned up at like four o 'clock and this girl came down and greeted me. And I said, hi, I'm here to do the audition for being on the politics show. And she said, that's tomorrow. And I'm like, great start, Jake. And then I just said, look, my mates have gone off and joined the military. They've gone off to uni. They've had a gap year. They've got a job. That's not my story because I've just messed up all my exams. Is there any chance I could come and work here on the weekends and do some work experience? So I used to go to this place called Rapture Television on a Saturday and a Sunday, all day.

31:39And I would move sets around, answer phones, operate the autocue, work with the sound man, move prizes about, get cups of tea, whatever needed to be done. They used to pay me£5 cash for working Saturday and Sunday. Then because they had no money, we all had to do bits of presenting. And I just, as soon as I put an earpiece on and started doing this on a live TV show, like no viewers, cable telly.

32:04Davina McCall:Perfect. Like no one watching. Perfect. Great place to make your mistakes. I found it easy. And there was people crying because they were anxious about going on or getting things wrong. And I was like, why is this such a big deal? Like this is so simple to me. And then one of the presenters left and the guy, the producer, came to me and said, look, would you like to host the show? It was a three hour live show on a Sunday. Yeah. And he goes, we'll double your money. Ten pounds cash. One day a guy said, you know, you should make a show reel. What's one of those? Cut together the best bits of my presenting, sent it to London.

32:38It was seen by someone at the BBC. Ended up doing little bits on as like a reporter for some TV shows on Children's BBC. and then in 2002 they created the CBBC channel and three of the people in the meeting had received my show and all three of them went, I think this guy would be good. And that's how I ended up on Kids Telly and then F1 and then football and then sitting here with you. So again, we need to not tell people that failure is bad and success is good. That failure in my A-level was the greatest thing that has arguably happened in my career. Fantastic, I'm so pleased it happened.

33:12Davina McCall:And I think as parents it's important. It's not just important for kids to hear that message, but it's important for parents to hear that message. Don't stress or fret about your kid's journey. It's just their journey. They'll get there in the end. I'd like to talk to you about the manosphere and how hard it is. I think what's been interesting, it's been brewing for a long time, I think, that young men and older men and boys have lost their way. and society is feeding so much conflicting information to what it is to be a man and how to be a good man. And it was a very basic set of rules in like the 40s and 50s.

34:00Davina McCall:You know, for my grandparents, I grew up with my grandparents, stay-at-home wife and mum, man works, and that was that. Like, you know, no women really worked then. and then we've all wanted to kind of become a bit more independent. And then I think through women becoming stronger and being more independent and then feminism, which has all been a good thing, it's complicated being a man now and how to find your feet. It is. And I think that as men, we're still kind of struggling with the traditional patriarchy, right? it's also a patriarchy that a lot of people and me included don't feel that we belong to no sometimes we feel like we're being judged or spoken about in a way that we don't even relate to those men from a previous generation and that's not to criticize those men from a previous generation because they were living by the rules that were set for them you know if we all were living hundreds of years ago we would all have very different views about the world most of which wouldn't be accepted today but that's not to criticize that period it's to understand that period.

35:06So how, when your question was, how have I got to be the man I am today? By not having an opinion, I think is probably the answer. Opinion is the lowest form of knowledge, right?

35:19Davina McCall:What do you mean by that? For us to have an opinion doesn't need us to understand the other person. Yet we live in a society that promotes opinion all the time. It's all about having a strong opinion. If you have a strong opinion, then you get voted as the President of the United States. If you have a strong opinion, then the algorithm will pick up the content that you create. If you have a strong opinion, then you can appeal to people in the extremities. If you have a strong opinion, then you can create a following. Now, that's dangerous when the people with an opinion are causing devastating effects for the people that start to follow them.

35:54So what we have to do is stop promoting a culture where we reward opinions and start creating a culture where we reward people for empathy. A strong man is an empathetic man, a caring, understanding man. And then there'll be people that go, well, that's not what a man is. But that's the strongest thing you can be is empathetic because you can nurture, you can protect, you can love, you can provide, you can be vulnerable, you can make mistakes. You can be all of those things that I think makes you a great man. I think masculinity is something to celebrate. When we talk about toxic masculinity, I really worry about the message that that sends, particularly young men growing up today.

36:40Davina McCall:It's like saying masculinity is toxic, but it's not. Absolutely. And there is scientific research and psychological research that says the conversation around toxic masculinity damages the mental strength of young men. I agree with that completely. So what we actually have to do is give young men credit for the world in which they're growing up in. But also I think that we have to be really clear about what's actually happening here. And what I think is happening with the conversation around the manosphere is that we're treating a minority like a majority. Yes. Just please expand on that because that's such an important point to make.

37:18I have a son. I have a dad. I am a man. I host a podcast that a lot of men listen to. I speak to a lot of men in my everyday life. they are good people they are caring, kind thoughtful, compassionate considerate, loving brilliant people please don't let society and let media and let social media and let narratives tell us that we have millions and millions and millions of people following dangerous male influencers and poor male role models I don't believe that I absolutely think that the messages from the likes of HS Tiki Toki and Andrew Tate and some of the ways in which we see the likes of Elon Musk and Donald Trump lead countries and businesses, I definitely think a lot of that is toxic.

38:12I don't like a lot of the things that I see from David Goggins, who seems to feel like he has to punish himself to be valued. I don't like listening to Joe Rogan. I don't think that the way they talk and the way they converse and the message that they put out there are healthy. But I also don't believe that the majority of men are bad. I think men are incredible. I think they're definitely trying to find their way in the world today. I think that it's a confusing time for a lot of men. It is, isn't it? But I think that what we need to do is lean into each other and lean into opening up more. It's so hard because the answer is the one thing that men don't do enough of.

38:55The answer is conversations like this. The answer is groups of men coming together. The answer is...

39:02Davina McCall:How can you do that? How can you get that to happen? You have to just start it. You have to just start the conversation. And that's what I've... And it's actually really interesting because, you know, high performance, we have a lot of male guests and we have a lot of conversations that I know will appeal to men. And we have a male listenership or viewership of probably 60 to 70 percent male. And that garners some criticism. I sometimes get into people go, why is there so many men on your show? And. I will never apologize for having conversations on high performance that feel it gives men the opportunity to open up and be themselves.

39:39Because men are killing themselves at an alarming rate. You know, men are struggling inside and unable to tell anyone. And if I can just create a platform that gives them the opportunity to be seen and to be heard. And every day, every single day I get messages saying, I'm really struggling. I've got issues in my personal life or issues in my work. And the things that you talk about have really helped. Then I'm delighted. And I think that we have this impression that if you're going to be successful, you have to be a certain type of guy. It has to be all about productivity. It has to be all about punishing yourself for success.

40:17It has to be all about wealth. It has to be all about showing off. It has to be all about accumulating things. You know, I've had a really good broadcasting career. I've created one of the biggest production companies in Europe. I've created a podcast that's listened to by hundreds of millions of people over the last few years. you can do all of that with empathy with care with understanding with emotion with connection it's not that you've got over here the kind of powerful hyper masculine manosphere um successful guys and then you've got all these meek quiet low achieving men that don't really belong in the world.

41:00It's not true. You can be a great guy and massively successful by connecting to other people. I think the hardest thing though is that someone like me who has had perceived success, I can sit here and talk to you about my emotions. I can tell you about the times I've failed. I can be vulnerable and open. And I think the problem is we've created a world where I've earned the right to talk like this because I've been successful. Well, I'm actually probably the last person that needs to do this. The people that do need to do this are those people that haven't been successful, that are struggling, that no one is listening to them, that feel like a failure, that can't hold down a job, that haven't got a career, that can't have long-term strong relationships with people.

41:45They're the men that need to be given the opportunity to speak up. They're the men that society doesn't want to hear from. They want to hear from the successful people because they've been successful. Therefore, their opinion is valid and their opinion isn't. That's a real problem. Everyone has an equal right to share how they're feeling and if anything, the people who are really struggling are the ones that we need to give a platform to and give them an opportunity to share how they're feeling.

42:08Davina McCall:There is an estimated 31.1 billion sitting in lost pension pots in the UK. 31.1 billion! This is me when I was at MTV, remember that like it was yesterday. Did I have a pension? Who was it with? And do you know what, I couldn't tell you. And I suspect I'm not the only one. But the good news is Monzo, our sponsors, can help you find and combine yours. In partnership with their tracing provider, Raindrop. They are the only bank that offer the service for free. You tell them where you worked and when, and they do the searching for you. It's basically a private investigator for your pension. So far, more than 150 ,000 pensions worth over£900 million have been transferred into Monzo.

42:53Davina McCall:That could be you. So download Monzo now and keep track of your pensions alongside the rest of your money. The value of your pension could go up or down and you could get back less than you put in. You need a free Monzo current account to open a Monzo pension, 18 to 70 years old only, UK residents only, T's and C's apply. Right, I need women to listen to this sponsored message from British Heart Foundation, because we are finally talking more about what happens to us during menopause. The sleep, the brain fog, the hormones, all of it. But we still don't talk nearly enough about our hearts. Cardiovascular disease is the biggest killer of women over 45 worldwide.

43:38Davina McCall:And after menopause, the risk increases significantly. Now, please don't hear that and panic. I'm telling you this because I think women deserve to know about this. And because there are brilliant people working every day to do something about it. British Heart Foundation funds life-saving research into preventing, diagnosing and treating women's cardiovascular disease. More research means more breakthroughs and those breakthroughs can mean more time. More time to live. More time to start over. More time to begin again. To help fund life-saving research, please visit bhf.org.uk slash keepusbeating to donate now and keepusbeating.

44:25Davina McCall:Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in a wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple-conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12.

44:56Davina McCall:Ultra running shoes are all about space. The space to go further. To feel better. To do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with ultra fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, ultra fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for, stay out there. With ultra. Shop now at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running dot com. It's quite interesting because you've talked about failure as being one of kind of your greatest assets in a funny kind of way. And I was thinking about women are lucky in a way because our struggle of being a woman with periods and perimenopause and menopause and having children and giving birth.

45:42Davina McCall:And like the, you know, the kind of enormity of that and what happens to your hormones and the monthly struggle. You know, it's like it's big, but we all go through it. We can all relate to each other and we all get that it's we're all on a kind of complicated journey of women's health. And it bonds us immediately, whereas it feels competitive for men somehow that they've got to kind of prove themselves. Oh, you're so right. You're so right. You know, what bonds us is exactly that. It's our ability to not speak and our ability to try and solve the world ourselves and the ability to cope and the ability to take it all on our shoulders and the ability to lie awake at night with a million things swimming through our brains that we can't possibly tell anybody because we feel that that will lead to them questioning whether we're a real man.

46:35And it's a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous way to think. And I think that actually the conversations around the manosphere where we talk about toxic masculinity or we talk about young men are all following the wrong people or the power that these social media influencers have. I think the real risk with that is that we don't stop. Like we're very quick to label and criticize, right? But we don't stop to ask, how have these people ended up creating such a following? And how have the people who are following them ended up following them? And it's no good just to say, well, they're bad people. It's not the truth.

47:15There is an issue somewhere that is leading young men to those dark corners of the Internet. There's an issue somewhere that means that those people with those toxic opinions managed to find a following. I do not believe that it's the majority of men. I still believe it's the minority of men. But I also believe that instead of, how can I best put this?

47:40Instead of pulling men out of the river, we need to go upstream and find out why they're falling in.

47:46Davina McCall:Yes. Can I just say something? You just said, I don't know how to put this. And then pulled out the greatest analogy I've ever heard. You can't just like, you can't just grasp an analogy like that and just like slap it on the table. That's amazing. Go upstream and find out why they're falling in in the first place. That's exactly it. Yeah. The answer here has to be leaning in with compassion, finding why did you feel the need to go to that place? You know, I have a son and I fear that unless he gets the right messages, he could easily end up there. He's the most magical, wonderful, caring, kind, golden hearted boy I've ever met in my life.

48:34Like he's everything to me.

48:35Davina McCall:Do you know why? Go on. Because you're his dad. Ah, you're so kind. Yeah. And it's the greatest job in the world. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Yes, it's the greatest job in the world. And I actually love being a girl dad. Oh my gosh. Like the best times of my day is because Seb falls asleep like that. Florence does not. The best time is when she's lying in bed and you go in and the brain starts to whir. The chat. And she starts to share things and you're having the chat. And I know that's the point, which almost every parent goes, look, it's late. I haven't got the time. You know, I think one thing I've really enjoyed about parenting is working out how to try and get it right, because there is no manual, right?

49:20Is there? And when, and I've totally changed my opinion on parenting as well. I used to think that when your kid is badly behaved, then you're telling off. or when your kid is badly behaved, they're only badly behaved in front of someone that they trust to be badly behaved in front of. So, of course, you tell them the boundaries and you share what's going on, but you also understand that your child feels safe enough to have an opinion. When they finish school and they're a bit quiet or they're a little bit bolshy or they're a bit dismissive of you, they are just trying to process a whole day's worth of information.

49:54And the first time that they cannot be sitting up straight answering questions is in the car with you. So give them that moment. And at the end of the day, finally, they can process all their thoughts and just try and share things. And, you know, Damien, the amazing Damien, who I host High Performance with. I remember when I was saying to him, I just feel like a couple of years ago, I felt like I was getting everything wrong. What do you mean? I felt like on the outside, you would have looked at my life and thought, God, that is amazing. You're presenting the Premier League, the Champions League.

50:27You've had a great career behind you. High Performance is doing well. You've created Whisper Group, which has got like 300 staff. You've got two kids, a happy marriage, lovely dream house. You're living in Norfolk where all your family are. What? I felt so out of kilter. Why? Because I was not prioritising the right things. We actually had a guy come on the show called Shane Parrish. Have you interviewed Shane Parrish? You and him would get on like amazing. He created something called the Farnham Street blog. And he's actually a productivity expert, but that doesn't do him any justice. because I think productivity is a bit of a dirty word now, right?

51:02But I'd call him more a happiness expert. And I said how I feel to him. And he said, well, what do you love? And I said, well, I love my kids, my wife, and like a small amount of time to do like something for me, have a game of puzzle, take the dog for a walk, whatever it is. He said, cool, what sort of diary do you have? And I said, well, I just use my phone. He goes, show me your diary. And I showed him my diary. He went through it and he said, well, where in your diary is there any time for Harriet? for them and say by yourself and i was like listen man this is like i'm not so embarrassing i have to put time in my diary to be with my kids and my wife that feels like a proper life fail and he said well your wife and your kids and time for you is really important he said but life is full of urgent urgent work issues urgent conversations urgent problems urgent stuff that needs to be solved and the urgent will always be the important so you have to prioritize the important so at the start of every week get your phone and he called it pay yourself first he said put in a couple of moments with harriet you can still have more but you make sure those two don't leave the diary you go and do something with your kids a couple times a week and they don't leave the diary you go and play pad on walk the dog twice a week and that doesn't leave the diary it's as important as anything that's urgent and that just transformed everything i just like i was like oh my goodness i now feel like i'm back in kilter but i also felt a couple years ago that i was just i was getting anything wrong with the kids you know I wasn't I just wasn't quite um understanding that when they at the end of the day when they want to talk to you like that's their opportunity to open up and to process stuff it can't just be about go to sleep because we've got to get up tomorrow like and I see a lot of like other families and it's like stressful all the time like stressful mornings stressful after school stressful to get your home what done stressful to get to bed stressful on the weekends busy busy busy busy but this is it i remember this is stressful then you're then something's wrong because this is all you get yeah there isn't you know then

53:02Davina McCall:they leave home i'm telling you my youngest is 19 you've been there and um if you could go back and do it all again you would you know but imagine how chilled you'd be if you now had a seven-year-old and he'd come in your bed in the night and there you go and then you'd be like yes come in my bed in the night. Yes, be late for school. Yes, let's go and make dens when we should be eating our breakfast. None of it matters. None of it matters. That's a great message as well, I think, for parents listening. We spend so much time worrying and like we were talking about, let them fail. Absolutely. Just none of it matters.

53:38Because the great thing about failing, obviously, is you've been resilient in young people. The other great thing about failure early on in life is that You know those people at school, and we were all at school with them, that are just like flying. Everything is great. Yes. The risk with that, and if you've got a young person in your life where everything's easy, you need to try and find points of failure because otherwise they develop this idea that they're somehow special, that they've got the golden answer, that they know the secret to a successful life, and no one does. And that's a really dangerous way to begin because you think you've got the answers, and then you get to 21 and realise you don't, and you've got nowhere to turn to try and find them.

54:16You need to encourage a culture of searching for answers at a really young age if you can.

54:22Davina McCall:You're talking about being a dad to a girl earlier and Flo just turned 13. How's that for you? Because obviously heading into that, the relationship has to change a little bit. Like you've got to give them a bit more autonomy and freedom. Yeah. Quite hard for a dad, I think. Yeah, it is hard for a dad. Because I actually see Flo going more towards her mum now because going shopping for clothes together is a really cool thing. Going and sitting in a cafe as mother and daughter and having a cool mother-daughter day is a really lovely thing. And I'm fully aware that there are things that I have that are special with Sebastian.

55:08So I think as a dad, trying to find your role in this new era is quite interesting. I want to be her opportunity to really be her like to really be herself so I like the idea of like you close the bedroom door and you say look you've got a lot going on in your life you've got a lot of friends to deal with and challenges and you know your body's changing and your emotions are changing but when this door shuts and it's just the two of us just tell me everything like everything

55:35Davina McCall:I'm a safe space I mean I've been over the top talking to her about periods right because I don't want to be that dad. That's so healthy. Yeah, so good. You know, when it finally happens, she's sort of waiting for mum to come home before she can tell someone. Yes. I just want her to feel free when she's with her dad. I want her to feel safe and protected. But more than that, I want her just to feel really free. I've got an amazing tip for you. Yes. Somebody gave it to me when my kids were turning teenagers and it was about never say no to a teenager. That's nice. In fact, I'm seeing the girl who told me this tonight at the school union.

56:18Davina McCall:So never say no to a teenager means when they come down and they want to do something, go somewhere, go to a party, going out in not very many clothes and you're like not on your nelly, you say, right, come to the negotiating table. So that's usually the kitchen table. And let's sit down and talk it through. So tell me why you want to do that. Okay, well, I'm telling you why I'm a bit nervous. Can we negotiate on the outcome? And you give a bit and they give a bit. Yes, it's brilliant. And then you come to an agreement and nobody ever walks out of the room and says, I hate you and slams the door.

56:54Davina McCall:It's always like, thanks. And I say, thanks for giving me a bit of the work. Oh, it's brilliant that. It's so good. Shall I tell you why I think that's so good? is because I look at Florence and see a six-year-old. Yes. And she's not. No. And when you're a six-year-old, dad does decide stuff, right? Because you're six, you can't decide for yourself. And I have to understand that she's not a six-year-old. She's a 13-year-old and she deserves the right to share her opinion, tell me what she wants to do. Oh, it's absolutely brilliant. Because you parent, you make the mistake of parenting a 13-year-old like you parent a seven-year-old.

57:31It has to change.

57:32Davina McCall:Got to change and adapt, yeah. Thank you for that. That's a pleasure. We've actually got something for you. Oh. I'm going to give you that. I'm going to ask you to read it out to us, please. Oh, wow. Was it a letter from you?

57:55Davina McCall:Oh.

58:00Davina McCall:Oh.

58:06Davina McCall:Would you read it to us? I could try, yeah. If I can't finish it, maybe you can take over. Daddy is always there for me and I feel like I can always talk to him. He set an amazing example to me to always work hard. He always pushes me. Every day on the way to school, he tells me to be the light in the room. Dad has taught me simple things such as to be kind to other people. And even though it's something small, it has a deep impact, especially if that person is having a hard day. We have a great connection. Thank you.

58:47Sorry. And I will always...

58:57We have a great connection and I will always want to hang out with him. Oh, that's the hardest part as a parent, isn't it? Because that's all you want.

59:09Davina McCall:Yeah. You just want them to want to hang out with you when they're grown up. Yeah. And you've done your job. But you have, right? Look. Everyone says when you're a teenager, you won't want to spend time with your dad. But I know I always will because our bond is so strong. I mean, what a letter. What a letter. That's the dream. That's the dream letter to have your child write you something like that at 13. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When normally you're the most annoying parent in the universe. I mean, the fact that she says she can always talk to me. Yeah. That is lovely. I think it's also okay to say he's set an example to work hard.

59:45Davina McCall:Yes, of course. We don't talk often enough about the hard work. Put the light in the room. The light in the room. Oh, my God. But these are the messages. is the repetition is the key, right? I think with kids. It's a repeated message every day. It turns into a core memory. Mine was David Hopkins, because you're very good at name-checking people. David Hopkins was the head teacher at my kid's school. Right. And he said at a leaving speech, aim high. Yeah, lovely. And I thought that was so nice. It wasn't like be the best. It was just aim high. Like you don't have to get there, but just aim. And I used that and I kept going just aim high.

1:00:35Davina McCall:Like just don't stress out. Just aim. It's so good because it's not outcome driven. Yeah. It's not achieve great things, is it? You know, like, you know, I've had these conversations for years and there's three things that you can do in your life. the best you can where you are with what you've got. If that's all any of us ever do, well done. Think how great the world would be if we all did the best we could where we are with what we've got. We don't know everything. So we can't know things that we don't know. It's where we are right now. We're just doing our best. And I think we don't reward people for that often enough.

1:01:14It's too much about the outcome.

1:01:16Davina McCall:Can I talk to you a little bit about social? Yeah, it's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I love them. Knowing, like, if she can just... I mean, Flo is the light in the room. Yeah. But people need to realise that that is where you can... We've spoken earlier, like, be a mosquito. Being the light in the room is being a mosquito. Just walk in a room and change the temperature in that room. It's an amazing human power. And we all have the capability. All have it. The person that did it the best in my life was Eddie Jordan. He would walk in a room and transform the mood. He would just, like, impact people. and it's a great thing to be able to impact people.

1:01:50Davina McCall:Tell me how he did that. Because he wasn't afraid to be embarrassed. And we live in a world now. So this weekend it was Florence's 13th birthday party and it was very interesting for me because we had 10 of her friends and we sat down for food and we took them to a pub. It was a surprise for Florence. She didn't know it was happening. And a few minutes in it's all very quiet and I'm thinking, what is going on here? So I then said, right, we're going to play our version of what I lied to you, give us two facts and we have to work out which one's real and which one isn't, just to sort of break the ice.

1:02:23And it got me thinking that young people are too afraid to expose themselves. They're too afraid of embarrassment. And embarrassment, you know, Stephen Bartlett, who is the creator of Flight Story, has said this before, embarrassment is the price of entry. Embarrassment is the price of entry. And I love failure is the price of ambition. If you fail, the price of ambition is to fail.

1:02:49Davina McCall:That's also amazing. And I do have this fear that young people, like they don't want to be embarrassed. But like, man, all the best stuff's on the other side of being embarrassed. Yes. Isn't it? Yes. Like every, I'm sure you relate to this. You know, when you're starting out your TV presenting career, the truth is that you turn up and you're kind of excited because you're the presenter. And then you go, okay, everyone ready? We're about to roll. You have this moment where you go, I just have to embarrass myself a bit now because I've got to be the one to stand in front of the camera and do a funny face or do a, you know, in your early days of street, mate, do the funny walk down the road.

1:03:21Like you weren't, you couldn't be overly self-conscious doing that stuff. And again, it's about less about inside and more about outside. And that's how we can create great young people. It's so interesting because some, this is obviously totally off topic, but I watched in your episode with Joel Domit and the two of you were sitting talking about like hosting Comet Relief and how much of an honour it is and how much you can't wait to do it. And five years ago, ten years ago, I would have been watching that with envy, but also with, right, how can I make that happen? And the really interesting thing for me is I watched it thinking, I have no desire for that.

1:04:00It's really interesting, isn't it, how you've let go of certain things in your life. And I was absolutely at one time, like, defined by being a TV presenter, you know. And then you realise, God, it's hard.

1:04:13Davina McCall:It's the joy of getting older. I think so. I like the fact that I don't think like I thought 10 years ago. Yes. Like I'm a totally different person. And that's great because that's how life should be, I think. And it's important to say that because it means that everybody's free to change. I'm going to wrap this up by telling you I have had such a good time and I feel like I could have gone on for another hour. Thank you. I'm coming to hug you. I love you. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.

1:05:12Davina McCall:can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com slash Apple Watch Series 12. Hey y 'all, Kelly Clarkson here with Wayfair. You know my favorite compliment during the holidays? Your house feels so cozy. That's when I know everyone's comfortable enough to kick off their shoes, grab more dessert, and stay a little longer. Wayfair makes it easy, with everything from dining furniture to festive guest room essentials, all in one place.

1:05:46Davina McCall:So whether you're hosting for an afternoon or all weekend, everyone feels right at home. Get holiday guests ready at Wayfair.com or on the Wayfair app today. Wayfair, every style, every home. Do you hear that? That sound, right? That means that summer's officially here. It means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon. But this summer, Mint Mobile has a better tree. Every plan, including unlimited, is$15 a month. And unlike ice cream, it won't drip down your wrist or look nothing like the picture. Does anyone have any cash? Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:06:18Davina McCall:Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Escape to paradise on Florida's Gulf Coast when you visit St. Pete Clearwater. With so much to see and do, here's the perfect beach vacation. At St. Pete Clearwater in the Tampa Bay area, there's plenty of relaxation on tap if that's what you're looking for. Natural spaces, acclaimed museums, and attractions offer hours of fun up and down the coast.

1:06:45Davina McCall:See all that St. Pete Clearwater has to offer. Named one of the world's most loved travel destinations, your adventure starts here. So plan your trip now at VisitSPC.com. That's VisitSPC.com.