Kate Nash: Why OnlyFans Is Funding My Music Career!

38:56You know, my other music isn't as commercially successful, which has been my intention, you know, not to chase commercial success. No, you're just true to yourself. Yeah. Yeah, it's not about that. It's not about that for me, but other people will project onto me what that means as failure and sort of see me as an 18 year old, like forever. You have to do a lot of work to be OK with that. And I've done that work. And it's really my 10 year anniversary of Made of Bricks was so healing for me. after everything that I went through in my career, getting dropped, getting stolen from, and feeling like such an idiot, and all the trauma of that stuff I was saying, like being 18 in the Daily Mail, like deciding this is who you are, you're a fake, you're, you know, mockery accident, you're acne.

39:48I didn't get famous until I was 25. Yeah. But at 18, I don't know how you coped. It was, yeah, and it was really cruel back then. That kind of language. All that stuff, right? Tell me some of the things that the papers used to say about you, because I bet you remember. Fat, ugly. I mean, just that. As an 18-year-old. Fat, ugly. And I took actually more personal. I felt like my peers, who were men that were young, that had debut albums that were extremely successful, were geniuses and legends. And I was like a silly little teenage girl. And writing your diary is stupid. And that has been so reclaimed now, which I absolutely love.

40:22I mean, I used to write a diary. You used to write a diary. And I interviewed an amazing kind of big thinker in the business world, Robin Sharma, that he's written that book up there, the 5am club. And he journals every day. He wakes up at five and he journals and he writes and there you were being ridiculed for it. But meanwhile, everyone's doing it now. You were the OG. The OG. But it was also like a huge success and kids, young girls loved it and connected with it. And so it wasn't something silly. And what I realised, I think, I was lucky to realise, that if you're calling me these things and I look out and I see loads of girls that are like getting my hair cut and like look like me or you're calling all of them those things as well and I realized that really early on and I think that empowered me and made me be able to handle it to be like I'm going to be okay for them because these are attacking all of us like I'm actually not alone in this because if they read that they're going to think oh well I'm not I'm not okay either and i'd also gone through a manager stealing money from me yes can you just talk about sorry yeah well no that that was a big thing because you know you were quite he was your manager from quite young and and you trusted him i yeah and i mean it's like a breakup with a well it's like a breakup with a lover i did trust him you know you're like what it's such a betrayal Betrayal Such a betrayal And you feel so stupid Someone steals it You feel such a fool You feel such an idiot I mean I hate the word shouldn't But that's sad that you felt like that Yeah Because you were wronged Yes but it's good that It's good to me that it happened now It is because In the music industry We are treated like fools That shouldn't really understand The contracts that we sign and you sign them at 17, it's fine.

42:19You'll be in it till you're 67. It doesn't really matter. They'll own 80 % of everything. But, you know, it's the way. And you're like, okay, that's the universal contract that I'm still in now. And we're used as bartering chips. And we're very, like, soloed off. And, like, you know, don't tell people this. It doesn't matter. You know, just drink this. Take this line. Blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, I really, I learned to be okay with my young self on the 10-year anniversary tour because I'd felt like after getting stolen from, I'm not worth anything in this industry. I am stupid. I failed. I need to toughen up.

42:55I need to know business. You know, I need to be a hard nut. Like if I'm going to do this, I need to be, you know, like girl boss. Like we've got to be everything. And I just couldn't really do it. I just was, it wasn't really me. And the interesting thing was going on the Made A Brick store and I suddenly was met with all of these people who grew up, you know, with the music and they were there and everyone sang every single word. I felt like their hearts were like pounding out of their chest. There was friends, you know, people had come to celebrate this thing from there, from 10 years ago. And there was a group of girls who wrote to me.

43:35They were in Manchester and they said, our friend at school, we all used to grow up listening to you. you were everything to her like she was mariella and she she didn't she lost her battle with mental health and we're here for her tonight we really want you to read this letter and i got the message and then when i was playing i looked up on the balcony i saw these girls arm in arm i knew it was them i could just tell the way they were together and um and i thought this is why i'm not a hard nut you know i mean i am a bit of a hard nut but but not in terms of music. Like, I'm not going to harden.

44:09I'm not going to become bitter. I don't have to be able to do it all. And if I close that off, actually, and if I close off my vulnerability, my willingness to be open, to bring people in, which is my nature, I'll lose all of this. This is why I have this, and this is valuable to me. And so it made me okay with it all. so I kind of healed in this really loving way and I sort of sat with my teenage self I feel like she was on stage because I went through all these songs I'd written some of them when I was 16 and I was like go on you've fucking sorted us out for a whole life like that's pretty amazing thank you 17 year old 16 year old Kate for like taking care of life in such an incredible way and I felt yeah I was like I'm good with you I'm good with whatever the Daily Mail or internet or people or whoever have said it doesn't actually matter because you did this and that's what my whole life is sort of about now.

45:11Then you moved to LA. Then I moved to LA. Like what like how did that happen? So I made an album there in 2012 and I had an acting manager there and it just became a bit of a escape once I made this record that I went through a breakup I made all these friends through kind of making music and having an acting manager and it was what I think is interesting because you went to the Brit school yeah and you've done what society doesn't allow artists to do which is you flip-flopped I do yeah acting singing acting singing normally you're a singer and then you go and do a bit of acting they go oh no they've done acting like yeah you've brilliantly straddled the two was that a conscious decision when you were at the brits like right this is what i want to be i want to be both things i think yeah i grew up writing songs music felt like the predominant i would say like calling i suppose that music is my way of expressing myself yeah and then i studied theater at the brit school and i loved theater and you know had i not done that i wouldn't have made made of bricks doing theatre made me comfortable with myself in a way that I think doing a music course wouldn't have because I had to sit in these silences and create plays from scratch and you know perform and the silence of the theatre is it's really intimate and you do as an actor have to sort of shed things from yourself to sit on stage and be another character so I think that helped me find my own voice in a way um kind of weirdly shedding stuff about yourself helps you sort of find yourself again so when you went to la was it like a conscious decision to explore that side of yourself a bit more yes it was two things it was i'd gone through a breakup i'd got dropped by my label i made a punk record in can i just also say sorry so brave no it was like no it's a bit mad i love you what was that nme the nme said something about it Kate Nash has created career suicide.

47:19Yes. It sounds amazing. And it sounds amazing. It's my favourite headline. Is that not the best great... That's what you are. Yeah. You have done this unimaginably brave thing. You've jumped off and you've done something you wanted to do and it's fucking great. I will just, like, push the big red button in the room. Yeah. Sort of, despite the consequences sometimes, I don't have that. I do like doing that. How did, sorry, we will get back to LA. I was angry. I know I keep interrupting you. You were angry. I was raging, yeah. Yes. It was female rage. Yes. It was female rage. It was how I'd been treated by the media, how I was boxed in by my label.

47:59They told me, oh, I don't like that vocal. It sounds like you're screaming like a little girl. And I was like, what the hell's wrong with screaming like a little girl? Like, that's cool. I think that's really punk. I was in a weird relationship. The media were this, that and the other. And I just was like, you know, I needed to let the rage out. It's very powerful. It was. That was one of those albums where I thought, I need to make this or I'm going to die. It was that female, youthful, like I'm at war with misogyny and how I've been treated and how this fame thing and how people see me. What I want to do is make art and music and have community and put on shows.

48:40And punk was really important to me. And so I found my outlet for all of that in that kind of punk music. It was quite rare what I was doing. I fired my band. I hired all women. No one was doing that at the time. I got really emotional watching Chapel Rhone actually at Reading because she has a full female band. And I was like, she's the biggest pop star in America, like over here in so many countries. And she is an all female band. When I did it, no one was doing it. Soundcheck felt like we had to prove ourselves to crew members. and I just thought how cool but at that time I did feel those young girls are looking at me they don't necessarily relate to me but there should be a woman on stage doing each job there should be like my lighting engineer should be a woman my sound engineer should be a woman like we need first of all I need more female company on the road and I also just need examples of women in music because if you want to be feminist you have to also create those positions I'm an employer I guess I realized I'm an employer so I was on this like war rampage and I'd made this album in LA so I had friends there and I just kept going back and when I felt bad at home I would go there and then I started like dating people and I got a manager there and uh like a music manager which was the one that stole from me but it became this sunny people are like how are you you know this like have a nice day thing I fucking needed that I needed sunshine and blue sky and people to be wow you're a musician that's amazing you've had a number one record incredible and now you have a whole other career so cool instead of oh you just had one hit when you're 18 you're nothing you know like the sort of British attitude of just like oh prove yourself for the rest of your life even though we do love that song, but fuck you.

50:27And you're just like, okay. It's quite a weird attitude that we have here. And I needed LA at that time. And so I got there. I think it melted my, I think had I not done it, I just would have, if I stayed in London, I would have become really paranoid. Yes. Really, oh, everyone's looking at me, judging me. They know me as this. And I sort of would have stayed in that shell. Whereas in LA, I could be new. I could be in my 20s and I could go, who am I? Who am I as an adult? Who am I? figure out who I am you know which everyone's doing in their 20s but without the media without this sort of voice the heat yeah and then it sort of yeah cultivated with me getting glow because I had gone I'd also like to give this acting thing a proper go I'm going to audition so for anybody that didn't get to see it's still on Netflix yes three seasons so everybody can see it yes if you didn't see it I'm just going to speak to camera I never do this but go watch it um it's really really good and heartwarming and life-affirming and moving it's a lot it's everything and weird and and iconic yeah like that well you tell everybody sorry i was about to launch into you tell everybody um what it was about so glow is the gorgeous ladies of wrestling it was a real show in the 80s it was the first time they put lady wrestlers on tv and it's there's a documentary about it you have to watch the documentaries oh my god it's unreal send me that yeah so they were real wrestlers and a lot of them weren't from wrestling backgrounds they were just wanting to be on tv shows and they had the good girls and the bad girls and they lived in a hotel together for real and it was the 80s so it was on god wait So this was on telly in the 80s.

52:17Yeah. I totally like missed this. Yeah. It became a kids show, really. It's like Big Brother or something, you know, like everybody living together in a hotel. And sort of that wasn't really, you know, they weren't like treated the best. There was, there's some girls saying like we had these chainsaws and the audience thought there was no real, that they were real. You know, the sort of health and safety that didn't exist in the 80s applied to that situation. and wrestling, which is quite, you know, a wild industry. And predominantly, historically, always men. Exactly. I've never seen... It was this first thing.

52:56And it became a kids' show, but they also had songs. So they used to rap in the ring. And it's just ridiculous. Really bizarre, really weird raps. girls that can't really sing or rap, you know. I saw that one with you. Yeah, and that's based on how it really was. It was brilliant. And they did all these weird skits and then that would turn into like the storylines of the wrestling characters. So it was based on these real women. And then ours is obviously a fictionalised sort of comedy drama of these women in LA who end up learning to wrestle. And it was very meta because that was what we were doing too.

53:35How hard was it to learn? It is quite hard to learn to wrestle. Yeah, it's quite scary, but it's a good kind of pain as well. There's like something about pain in that physical fight. You were used to that. That's what's so funny. Your sisters had basically trained you for that part. They had. They trained me so well. They trained me so well. And all those punches to the head and spine. But it's true. I mean, it's like for anybody else, it would have been an assault. But you were like, this is a walk in the park compared to being with my sisters. It was such a thrill to hit the mat and feel the adrenaline and learn to take the pain.

54:18And at the beginning of training, after a few seasons, you know, it would be like, or after season one or two, we'd be saying, oh, you've got ring rust. You need to run the ropes and kind of toughen up. And you do get this kind of strength. It's a bit like touring. on the second day of tour is the worst day of tour because you have this bang over from like your neck and you go oh i see because you've been dancing you've moved and you're just not tour you you've just done one gig and you feel destroyed and you're like how am i going to do this for six weeks but halfway through you're just tough and stamina yeah you've got the stamina your muscles are all warmed up and um but wrestling it gave me a physical connection to myself that I'd never had before.

54:59And Chavo Guerrero, who's a wrestling legend from a family of wrestling legends, he was our coach. Chavo was so great with us. He was the least sort of PC-trained person to have in with us. But the most safest, the Guerrero name, like taught the original Glow Girls. That's why I think it was quite witchy because weird stuff happened on set. Go on. Stuff would happen that would be happening to people in real life that would then show up in the script and would become part of the storylines. And we were like, that's... We'd call it a gloaman. The girls would be like, another gloaman. It's a gloaman.

55:35Oh, my God, it's a gloaman. So something would be happening and then, like... Something would be happening to one of the girls and then, like, similar storylines would show up in... I just think women all together, we're channeling these real women. Well, this is like sinking periods. I mean, of course we sinked periods. It was... We would get in so much trouble from the first AD. The first AD, I think, like, quit on the first season He was like, these girls, you just can't control them. We'd be being told to shut up and, like, Alison Brie would be, like, leading a musical number and, I mean, the camaraderie.

56:07And how close we were by episode one because we'd already been in each other's crotches and I think one of the girls was stretching and, like, queefed, like, in my face on one of the mats, like, before we'd even shot the first scene. We were really close. We were really close, yeah. In case anybody doesn't know what a queef is, It's a fanny fart. Davina. That's what it is. Teaching you guys again. Yeah. I can see that clipped up on Instagram. Women are feared because we have a community. Yes, yeah, yeah. Of a bond, an invisible bond that we have with every woman in the world. I occasionally walk down the street and I see a woman and she looks at me and we just go, like, I got your back.

56:55Yeah, because she's also like, thank you, Davina, and I love you, and I'm so obsessed with you, and you're like, it's all right. But it's a... No, there is that camaraderie. It's a code of the woman. Crying, walking down the street at night, or even during the day, you're like, are you okay? I've always done that. Do you? Yeah, yeah. If I sit on driving parties, do you need a lift? Yeah. Right, like, what's going on? I always do that as well. I give people lifts. I get people Ubers home if they're too drunk to order one or something on a bench, and I'm like, you really need... Can I just say, anybody watching this, please take a leaf out of do that yeah but i think a lot of girls do do that people right yeah but any man watching yes let's make the world let's all try a little bit so you glow yes we know what glow is now yes you got this part yeah it was literally made for you did you have the knowing yes i did i did what did that feel like so it's it's funny because the reason I got the audition for Glow is because I did a pilot for Jenji Cohen and Gus Van Sant that never came out about the Salem witch trials.

58:03It was called The Devil You Know. I played a character called Bridget Bishop and I played Rhonda Richardson in Glow and I just liked that alliteration. Bridget Bishop was a real witch, you know, from the 1800s. God, another part like literally made for you. And it was this incredible experience in Boston and based on history and very much like the audition was like putting piss in cake. And like I stuck a thing up a woman's vagina in the woods and kissed her. And then I'm like, you know, I was like, oh, I love this. It's like insane. And we all thought that was going to get made. It didn't get picked up.

58:38But I got the opportunity to then audition for Glow because Jenji knew me. and um I knew I felt that witch show and then when I got the opportunity I was like I'm getting this I'm getting this I just knew it just felt so right you know I don't know what that is but it just feels when you're like this I can actually 100 % do this fits me like a glove I can do this you know and yeah I did have that sort of I'll do anything to prove I can do it and get it um but I I just did a scene and then I did an audition tape of Britannica, the wrestling character. So our characters had wrestling characters.

59:16And so I did one of the songs. I did this like weird little tape. I don't know. I did have that knowing. It is a thing, isn't it? It's weird that. It's weird because, yeah, a lot of the time you're just shooting in the dark with stuff. But I do come back to feeling like some things really do feel like they're meant to happen. and I think we have loads of choices and loads of directions that we can go but every now and then you get to this point and it's like this is going to spin you there and also sometimes you need a win sometimes you need a win and I needed a win and I got glow and I was like all that praying finally no but just in career you need a win sometimes I'm always talking about the universe you know when I look out for myself I've got my back and when I haven't got my back, the universe has.

1:00:07Yeah. And something happens. Yeah. I do have a sense of that spirituality and connection to that too. The knowing. I really do. Like you know. Gut instinct. Yes. Intuition, you know, magic and fairies and whatever you want to call it, universe, like connection to something bigger than ourselves. And every now and then there's a real strong feeling about it. And sometimes there isn't and it's confusing. But when there is, yeah, it's annoying, isn't it? The thing that I'm channeling love into at the moment is venues. Okay. And I know that you've got some big thoughts about this. Yes. And you and I, I think we were reborn in nightclubs.

1:00:53Yeah. I found myself dancing. Grounded on the dance floor. Yeah. Yeah. and um yeah i follow all the kind of edm accounts on instagram yeah but all the small venues they can't afford to stay open and the government is making it almost impossible and the taxes on alcohol and makes it impossible for these venues to stay open so they're all closing which has a knock-on effect for DJs, musicians, kids. Where are you going to go and release your tension, your stress? How can you let go? How can you hear of new things? It's so important. How do musicians start? Like you started with a broken ankle. We play the guitar going, right, when this is done, I'm going to gig.

1:01:43And you could. Yes, I could afford to do it. Yes. 30 quid would actually buy me some drinks at the bar. And I could say, you know, it's so hard for young people now. I don't think people are thinking through this pipeline. What will Glastonbury line-up look like in 20 years? I don't know because I don't know what UK artists will have been able to develop into what I'm saying that I have with my bandmates. Flow state, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. Practice is really important. Practice your craft. If you can't actually practice it. This is why I went down the music avenue first because I couldn't practice acting because I couldn't get into a university to do it.

1:02:18so I couldn't you know if you can't if you don't get given a job it was like I can book a gig I can go and do a gig and like doing shows and playing music has made me a better performer the more I do it the better I get that's the cool thing about performance is it's it was something always new to discover right and um the government are actually trying to help now and I think we do have the ear of MPs and I was invited to parliament um to speak at a music venue trust event where all the mps i told them shut up like listen to me got them to put their fingertips in the air for foundations yeah because it was one of those rooms where the sound if people talk you know like a wedding when it's like why is it so loud everyone's just talking at like this volume but it'll just it just the like just talk and everyone's drinking champagne and i was i'm gonna lose them i have to just walk through the crowd tell everyone to shut up because i'm here to talk about something really important and you all know who i am so listen because i've got experience got 20 years of experience under my belt and I'm telling you that this is a massive problem even me it's massive even me I have you know a catalogue that's even though Universal take 80 % of I'm still earning a living from it I'm selling out venues I have thousands of fans millions of streams you know I can book the tours and people will come and I'm losing so much money doing it this is insane so So how is anyone who has less than I have?

1:03:47This is insane. I mean, I started an OnlyFans account. Yeah. And a campaign called Bucks for Tourbuses to get attention, obviously. But also to genuinely make up for the losses and trying to get all my invoices in before Christmas. And like... Can I tell you something about your OnlyFans thing for me? It was about the most punk thing I've ever heard in my life. Thank you for getting it. Oh, my God. I so got it. Yeah. I was like, it just, I really, really, really love you for that. Firstly, because it really highlighted how absolutely messed up the music industry is. Yeah. That you cannot make a living at your height of success.

1:04:31From millions of streams. From millions of streams. Thousands of people buying tickets. Millions of streams. How much do you get on Spotify per stream? 0.03 of a penny, I think it is, per stream. It doesn't add up to very much. It's insane. And then depending on who the rights holders are. But the two of them point the fingers at each other. So Spotify responded to me recently and they were like, well, we're not really in control of who holds the rights to Kate's music. And we've paid out over£500 ,000 to one of her songs. I'm like, first of all, that's not enough money. 20 years. That song has over 100 million streams.

1:05:02That's not enough money. That's insane. 20 years. When you think in the olden days of records, what that would have 100 million records sold. Yeah. And people just aren't being paid fairly for their work. No. And then what's happened with the music, live music side of things is it's so expensive to put on a gig. The cost of, the same as everyone else at home, you know, the cost of living in crisis, everything's gone up. So when I, there's less rehearsal rooms now because in the pandemic, rehearsal rooms shut down or people that used to rent out gear and vans, a lot of them closed. So everything's a bit more expensive.

1:05:41Even before going on tour, I spent thousands on wages that have gone up. Rightly so. Obviously, I believe I want to pay people well, but wages go up. Rehearsal room costs go up. Renting a van or a bus has gone up in price. The petrol has gone up. Printing merch has gone up. Now venues are taking a percentage of the merch that's also gone up. um eating food has gone up hotel costs have gone up but musicians fees for some reason none of our stuff goes up the value of our music's gone down and um i mean when you say it like that that is nuts yeah and i'm not putting on insane shows i'm not because of the amount of men in my dms telling me that they'd love to be my tour manager and fix all my problems please fuck off I am I have really a great team and I'm making a choice Davina to keep a human band right yeah I know I could I could just stand on stage with backing tracks and cash in but I have something really special and I believe in live music and I love musicians and I think that culture has the right to exist and I believe I have the right to be able to afford to pay for that 20 years in if you don't fight it will literally fucking disappear it will disappear it will disappear and yeah, I have a lighting engineer and a sound person and like if I do a London show, I might put a bit extra into the show but I'm not doing crazy stuff, you know, I'm not building huge sets and, you know, pyrotechnics or stuff that costs loads of money and bringing an extra, it's like, it's a quality of, it's standard, it's like the standard I set for my show that I believe I have earned, that the sound and the lights and my band should be able to be there.

1:07:24Yeah. I'm not asking for the heavens. Of course, I would do more if I could. But the basics I have to cover. I have to. People are paying tickets to come and see me for 20 years. It's got to be a good show. And you just, I was like, if I can't do it, you know, how are people? And I'm seeing the results of like young people, but they're, you know, 30, 32, 33. They just can't go on tour. They can't do shows. They're stuck. They're stuck. And they're some of the most talented artists that we have in this country. and we pride ourselves on our cutting edge London, UK, like we are culture. It's like you're fucking killing it and it's not going to be there.

1:08:03It's not going to be there if you don't protect it, have to protect it, nurture it. How can we support you? Oh, my OnlyFans.com force, that's Kate Nash. No, but wait, say that again slower. Let's just say it. Well, to support me. Yeah, to support you personally to be able to keep going. Onlyfans.com forward slash Kate Nash Thank you I was saying to people on tour I would say don't stream my music because that might help Buy it if you want to buy it Bandcamp I mean stream it It's fine It's sort of sarcasm I know people stream but it does if you stream an artist it doesn't support them financially so don't have any delusions about that Buy their merch buy their Onlyfans and write to your MPs The government I think is the way forward because these massive companies Live Nation When we write to our MPs, what are we asking?

1:08:54What do we need them to do to help music? Yeah, so you write to them to tell them that you care about music, that it's why it's important to you, and that you're worried about the cost of touring crisis. You're worried about seeing venues in your local area close. That is really depressing. Yeah, and that you think that musicians should be paid fairly for their work, that you value their work. there's a fan-led review. My friend Sam Duckworth and the Music Venue Trust are doing a lot of work to, if you believe that we live in a democratic society, then this is why data is so important, right? Because fans' voices really matter because that is democracy.

1:09:39If the public think something and tell the government something, the government is supposed to act. That's what we believe we live in a democratic society. So collecting fan-led data could help us change the industry so follow the fan-led review and participate in the surveys um and that will help us i think the only route forward is changing the law i don't think these companies that make millions are going to change the law and i just want everybody to take a leaf out of your book because i think people sometimes as a fan you can think well what difference am i going to make you are going to make a difference be one of the scratches yeah in the tunnel we need all of you I was talking about.

1:10:21Just be a little scratch. And look where the scratch is led. Yes, exactly. Exactly. I did do it. So the day that I had my London show and I was doing all the OnlyFans stuff, I went and did this protest where this bus, Save Our Scene, have this bus. And they were like, we could put your bum on the back of a bus and we can go around London. I was like, yes, let's do it. We went to Parliament. We went to Live Nation. We went to Spotify. And I was there with like a megaphone. and people were getting like velvet sofas delivered into the Spotify building and I'm there like, pay artists fairly. And I get to the venue and I said to my manager, I said, I think I've gone too far.

1:11:00I sat off. I've thrown a brick through a window and she was like, literally? And I said, no, no, no, not literally, but I just don't think there's any going back from here. But I don't care. I don't care. I hate this exploitation. Can I just show you? Look at my legs. It's injustice, it's not fair. Do you know what I was thinking about here? I think it was 2002, I presented the Brits. And Brandon Block, one of his mates at his table, said, you've won an award, mate. And he hadn't. But he came up to accept an award that wasn't his. Oh, no. And then he had a fight with Ronnie Wood. Oh, my God. Those are the days.

1:11:43And it was, I was like, oh, my God. It was so brilliant. Yeah. And it was because it was punk. Spirited. Spirited. And it's been neutralised. Yes, it has. Everything's so styled. No one's real. Yeah. Everyone's pretending. I'm getting my arse out and shouting. But you're getting your arse out. Yes. You're throwing the brick through the window. I'm made of bricks, you know. I've got a few to spare. But, like, thank you, because it's empowering people. It matters. It does. It matters. They can't get away with this. These people, I've had first-hand experience of it. I'm angry. That anger has not gone away.

1:12:31Just because I made girl talk. You know what I'll say to them? Next time. Next time. Yeah. Next time you try and take me out, don't miss. Yes. Don't miss. because I will not give up. I am from, like, Irish stubbornness. Do you know what that means? You're the middle child. I'm the middle. I'm a redhead, for God's sake. You're a wrestler. Like, you messed with the wrong woman. Like, I will keep going until I'm in a coffin. And, like, and if I'm a ghost, I'll do it when I'm a ghost. But I just, there's dreams I have for my career. There's things I want to achieve. But before that, I would sabotage them all.

1:13:11Yes. to get vengeance no not really vengeance to make a difference to make it possible for people to have to have this path yes to have done what i did because it will be a dead end it'll be for nothing if it can't if it can't carry on what's the point if there's no community and lineage and like you can't inspire like who inspired me and made it possible for me like what is the also more importantly as well you as an artist connect people how am i going to connect with other people without music without younger generations as well being able to come up and do it you bring people together and and and we do value that we do value that but we're not putting any actual monetary value on it and that is the world we live in we need that monetary value for for younger generations for there to be future artists which i think in a world where you know like i watched a documentary on um on iPlayer called Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland amazing documentary and it shows Belfast at the height of the troubles where you couldn't park your car and leave it on its own without the army just blowing it up because it was so dangerous and like so violent in a city and it was this metal gated place where there was just like shopping and that was it and people were just sort of, there was no existence.

1:14:34And then, you know, what came out of that? A guy who almost got dragged into a car and killed one night and he said, you know, if I'm going to die, I want to die doing what I love. And he opened a record shop and people travelled the country to go there because they wanted to be with each other and listen to music and meet people. And then they went to a punk venue and it would be, you know, you didn't discuss religion. Everyone was mixed and they watched punk bands. And it was like culture matters. It does matter. Without it, you know, we just have ads. That documentary really inspired me to remind me as well that, you know, in these political times, you can sort of become really casual about all this violence that's happening.

1:15:17And in the doc, this character who, not character, he's a real guy, he owned the record shop. He says, they're like, I wanted to tell my kids when they said, Daddy, what did you do in the Troubles? I said I partied I had a good time I'm I've you know I drank I did drugs I went to punk shows and I like I didn't kill anyone you know and that's really really valuable to hear in these like aggressive times important so I just passionately want to see things change because I have dedicated my life to participating in culture and and putting music at the forefront right and I'm not doing that for nothing so that it all just goes away it's first of all it's ancient you can't erase it from humans wanting to connect like that but I just I hate the exploitation and how badly these people have treated artists have you got other artists on board with you I think a lot of artists care a lot of artists are quite scared to speak out I've had so many people message me since I've sort of started speaking out privately but they don't privately but also they've been able to share some of my content and some of it's gone viral because it is the collective feeling but we can amplify your voice as well as members of the public like get on board yes and some people to be fair if they're on major labels it's really hard for them to speak out um and you know we do people do get blacklisted you know i've put i am aware that i have burnt some bridges but i'm okay with that I'm okay with that and I think I'll be fine I just think you know like I said next time don't miss because everybody owes you basically because yeah they do no no no you have you've been honest when it's cost you it's it's cost you but you don't care and that's really rare I do get a kick out of it I do get a kick out of it I do think it's my heritage I just think Like I'd rather, that's what I'm saying, like all these dreams I have, I think I'll feel more satisfied if I have made a difference and sort of taken down some of the baddies.

1:17:24Maybe it's the Catholic in me or something, I don't know. Isn't it interesting that the thing that was so difficult for you at the beginning, the thing that was, you know, the shame and the guilt and everything, but actually... Justice, right and wrong. It is the fire in your belly. Yeah, because I really believe in right and wrong, you know, And I say that with also allowing for human mess. And I think people can make mistakes. And I'd love for all these companies to turn around and say, yeah, do you know what? We're going to do the right thing. We're going to make it fair. But they're not going to do that.

1:17:54No. So we have to change the law. And they better believe that that's happening. And actually, I'm glad because it will be worse for them this way around. Because if they just did it themselves and came to meet us at the table, they could probably get away with a bit less. But when we change the law, they'll really have to come and meet us at the line. and we decide where the line is, you know, my bum and the government. Oh, my God, yes. There's one more bit I want to do for you. We've got something for you and Molly's going to bring it to me now. Okay. This is a little present. What is it? This is from Helen.

1:18:27We've got you a little letter. I'm going to read it to you. Okay. That's a quartz heart. Rose quartz. Are you ready? From Helen? Yes. So this is legit from my sister? OK. OK. Dear Davina, I was meant to write a letter to Kate, but like you'll have learnt in your conversation with her, we're not one for sticking to rules or very good at doing what we're told. Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately for some, it runs in the family. Oh, my God. Our lives have given us so many opportunities to start over again and again and again. Whether we wanted those opportunities or whether they were thrown at us, swerving our entire life projections, I feel like it made us all really adaptable to anything new, uncomfortable or unknown.

1:19:28Adaptable, yeah. I think this year is going to bring a whole new beginning again. I feel like that too. No, I feel like the world is beginning again. Feels huge this year. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Something seismic is coming. And when she said recently, I won't know what to do with myself once this is finished, it totally threw me. I was confused thinking, what is she talking about? She always knows what to do. She's always got something up her sleeve, some battle or cause she has to get behind, some project she's been working on for months and years and she's just forgotten to mention. I've never thought of her as someone who could feel lost or stop.

1:20:18I guess I forgot she was human, like the rest of us. And the relentless warrior that everyone sees, if the same relentless one was the one we got at home, which is just as fucking annoying when your sister's fighting. Alas. I think looking back at all the new beginnings, whether that closed door she wanted to keep open or not, she'll realise she entered the next room and ended up taking it over. Suitcases splayed, opened, full of endless clothes, shoes and a comforting chaos that she thrives in. God, Helen's great with words. Wow. And hopefully now, as we're a bit older and wiser, she can be a bit kinder herself and take my most consistent advice.

1:21:17Get a therapist and go on holiday for fuck's sake.

1:21:31from one Nash who can't switch off to another. We were made to get back up and try again with tights full of ladders, knobbly concrete cuts in our knees and just keep stomping forward. It's true.

1:21:56Here forever to keep you grounded, Helen. That's the nicest thing she's ever said to me. Frame it. Frame it. She's going to punch you the next time she sees you. Yes, she will. She'll knock my teeth out. I can't. I'm in shock.

1:22:20I'll cry when I get home. You know, I can't. How nice is that? I'm so happy for you. I'm like, I'm actually in shock that also you read that to me. This is the weirdest moment of my life. I feel like I'm on this is, yeah. You are. That's what this is kind of, isn't it? You literally are the biggest icon. You are. Like, no, but you are. You are. Like, you've literally been on TV with me and my sisters watching you, like, growing up. Like... I'm in your DNA. You are in my DNA. You literally are. And you just read me a letter from my sister. We love you. Kate Nash. We love her. We love you. It's a framer.

1:23:07Is it the Nash? I can't believe you did that. Thank you for doing that. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.

1:23:48Transcription by CastingWords at ProLonLife.com slash now. We all want to know what makes people tick, how will they make decisions, handle feedback, and work as a team. The Predictive Index Behavioral Assessment reveals how employees actually think, work, and thrive. Like how Marcus fits in a role with structure and Margo's strength is collaborating with others because when we understand each other, work just works. Take the Behavioral Assessment today at try.predictiveindex.com. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

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