Liz Houghton: Losing My 20-Year-Old Son & How To Keep Living When Your World Ends

20:41I actually think the phone gave me the balance, funnily enough, because it meant I could take the office to the sports field. So I actually think modern technology helped women more than they would ever know. Because if I did have to shoot off a few hours here, I could do something in the evening. You know, I could do something on the way to work. So all of a sudden, I was fitting things in. And I think if you can do that, then you're a really efficient person. So I've never seen technology as a bad thing, but I do get it now that it's now, without me knowing it, I probably have done a little bit, you know, maybe I've gone into that world too deep.

21:24And sometimes I think, you know, could I do a whole day without it? I've not actually ever tried, but I probably ought to. Do you know what?

21:31Davina McCall:Ruby Wax came on this podcast and she blew my mind talking about silent retreats. I know. I've heard about those. I'd be very scared. I mean, I am terrified. Yes, I am terrified. It feels so challenging to me. Does it feel like that to you? Well, not talking to anybody, not talking to yourself, not having inspiration or, and also like I think we just said, the connectivity. so yeah it scares me beyond that and also I don't know if I want to be just in my own head that's a place to go and this is what I wanted to talk to you about next because I know that you went through an unthinkable trauma you lost one of your children and I just feel like sometimes that is when you're thinking I shouldn't be alone too much because I just can't go there Oh, it was Will, your oldest son.

22:30Could you explain what happened? Well, I sometimes really sort of play those sort of end of 2025, 2015, sorry, years in my head, because that is when we first sold the first stake in Mint Velvet. And so can you imagine? It's like all of that work came and I took the three kids and my husband. We all went to New York in December and we just had the best time. And Sophie, my daughter, her birthday is the same day as mine. And we had it out there. We just had the best time. It was just amazing. And I was like, pinch me. This is like amazing. And then seven weeks after that, I get a call when I'm at work.

23:10And it's my husband. And he said, Will's had a cycling accident. And I was like, oh, OK. He was just at university on a training ride. And he often fed off his bike because he was obsessed with cycling. So we'd been used to this. You know, we've been used to the grazes and all those sorts of things. It's a road bike. It's a road bike. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, OK. And he said, so the police are coming to get you. And I was like, oh, so this is another level. He's like, yeah, they're going to come. And he was in London. And your husband hadn't any information either. No. He just thought that it was a bad accident.

23:42Yes. Well, he knew when he was telling me, I was thinking it was lighter, but he knew that the police were coming. So they picked him up in London and they picked me up in our offices are in High Wycombe. Wow. And he picked me up. And I just remember being like all of a bit of a, you know, a wobble. And I was in the office with the girls and thinking, you know, oh, I'm sure it's fine. They've come to get us. So I knew it must be urgent. So I was thinking it's serious, but I wasn't thinking, you know, it was going to be terminal as it were. And when they arrived and they put me in the back of the police car, they then basically, is it blued and hooded or whatever you call it, all the way down.

24:20And he was in Portsmouth University. And so that is a, on a good day, that's a, you know, an hour and 15 hour and 20 minute journey. I mean, we were, it felt like we were there in half an hour, all the way down the motorway. And I was phoning my brother, who was a doctor, and I was sort of saying, and he was actually on a conference, I think, in Europe at the time. And I was, you know, going through all these thoughts. And I was like, okay, so if he's disabled, he'd be really good at the Paralympics, because he's so driven. So that's going to be fine. And, you know, we're going to do this, we're going to do this.

24:50And then in the back of my head, I kept thinking, if it is the worst, I'm going to revolutionise how cycling is on road. So basically, why are cyclists and motorists on the same piece of tarmac? Shouldn't happen. You know, why as a civilised country can we not have cycle paths away from roads? You know, so I was going through literally because I am sort of a project manager of any kind of stress. So I was going through all these things. We get to Southampton Hospital and I get out of the car and I can't stand. Literally, I can't stand. And I was like, oh, I didn't realise that I sort of go through all these things and I just couldn't stand.

25:28So these lovely two police officers sort of held me up and took me into the hospital. And I got ushered into a small room and, you know, this sort of size. And the nurse came and she said, oh, you know, sit down, make a cup of tea. And, you know, the doctor will be with you in a minute. So we were sitting there and he came in and he said, he was quite a young guy. And I remember thinking, gosh, you're really young. You know what you say about policemen and this young doctor came in, but he was a consultant. And he said, so what have you heard? And I said, well, I know Will's had a very serious cycling accident.

26:04And he said, well, I've got to tell you, it's unsurvivable. And he just said that. and honestly you know when you see things on the tv where you see somebody let out a noise when you hear something like terrible grief I thought that that was just theater I didn't think that that existed but this noise came out of me and I just like literally crumbled because unsurvivable it's not even a well we're unsure he's in a coma so I knew he was still breathing but he's not he's not going to live. It's not even that he might have some sort of damage. He's not going to live. And then he just left the room and I was left with these nurses.

26:48And it's just like, you know, this perfect world I had was just literally in, you know, a second just taken. So it was just unbelievable. But what I had done on the way down, I'd called my second son, Tom, who's only 13 months younger than Will, who was at the same university. So Tom had already got there and unsbeknown to me had already been told this news on his own. Can you imagine? So when my husband got there and I was already in with Will at this stage, when my husband got there, Tom made sure that he told my husband rather than us having that experience because he knew that he had to soften it.

27:29So my husband. And then we went through and we sat with Will who looked perfect. He looked, he told me that he'd had his hair cut the night before and that I'd absolutely hate it because he always had it too short at the sides. And there he was with his really short hair, but he just looked so perfect and he was breathing. And I just couldn't get over how my really handsome 20-year-old son was just lying in this hospital bed and he wasn't going to live. So it was just so hard. And we had two or three days with him. And the rest of the family came down and I'm one of four. So my wonderful brother and sister came down, sisters came down.

28:09Some really close friends, Will's girlfriend. And everybody came to say their goodbyes to Will. and unbeknownst to me at the time the transplant unit were with us the whole time because when I when we started talking to them I was like I want to save or my husband thought the same thing we want to save every part of Will's body because he was so fit he had avocado all the time he never drunk he didn't smoke he was obsessed he wanted to be a professional cyclist he was so unbelievably fit so I said you know that boy's organs are just perfect and I didn't realize I was actually talking to a transplant nurse at the time and they did it so beautifully because they never asked me but they were there when I needed them and it was just it was so well done it was for an awful situation and we had that time to say goodbye to Will and my daughter was brought down by, my mum was still alive at that time, who was 85, who just couldn't believe it.

29:15And we all were together and we all said our goodbyes to Will. And then he went off and had, I think something like 12, he donated every single organ that he had because he had had a blow to the head. An old lady in her 60s just didn't see him and she just mowed into the back of him and he'd hit his head. So he just had a very intense blow to the skull, but the rest of his body was absolutely fine.

29:47Davina McCall:When you talk about the transplant nurse being there, Will had actually opted in. Could you just explain to people at the time it was a different time to now? Yeah, you definitely had to have a card. And the funny thing about Will is he did like talking about mortality and the meaning of life. He was such a deep, intense kind of guy, but lovely and light at the same time. So he'd had a guy that had had a heart attack that he'd cycled with that was 45. And I remember him coming in to see me in the kitchen and saying, Mum, can you believe so-and-so has died on his bike? And isn't that awful? And what about what will he do with his body?

30:32And he was just really sort of attuned to those sorts of things. And it was then that he got an organ donating card. And we actually talked about it. So he was so into that type of thing. You know, he always was a very giving kind of boy. so I knew that that's what he wanted but some parents even though they have got a card some parents do not want to give the permission because I think the NHS are so aware that the you know the loved one has gone and so it's really the the living that have to live with that pain so if that's something they don't want they are actually very respectful so even now even though it is opt-in parents can still say no.

31:17It's quite difficult. It is. It's really hard. And to be honest, I didn't even know what I thought beforehand. Like I hadn't really gone there. So I didn't know that I would be so passionate about it. And I was like, you've got to save this. I couldn't have anything wasted of will. And I, because number one, I knew that's what he wanted. But secondly, he was perfect. You know, he had, he had amazing lungs. so I knew nothing could go

31:48Davina McCall:can I ask you something I'm not sure we've said how old he was because he was very young he's had all of this conversation with you about something quite major at such an early age he was 20 and the other thing I've just thought of it he was obsessed with red nose days oh my god there's so many links here when we used to watch red nose days he used to get so upset and he was always saying to me mum you donated you have donated haven't you like you've got to donate you know look at these kids and if he saw like little kids in Africa you know that didn't have a family or whatever and for his 13th birthday he said could he actually not have any presents but just have um adopt because I think there was some sort of scheme going on so we adopted not literally um a young lad in Africa And we still to this day donate to that same organisation.

32:42I think that guy is now 30. So it's now transferred to other children. But that is the sort of guy he was. He was so aware. So even when he was 13, he kind of got it. And you just knew that Will would have achieved so much. So that's why I couldn't have his history just ending there. So I wanted his organs to go on and have another life because that's what he would have wanted. And, you know, that's what he did.

33:13Davina McCall:As a parent to anybody that is experiencing a child at the end of their lives and you are struggling with this idea about your child being taken apart, but that was the child's wish. Yes. How did you not think about it like that? Because I love the way you think about it. He lives on. Yes. His legacy lives on. It's funny because actually, even though Will was alive when we got there and he was alive in the bed, he was clinically dead. They were keeping him alive. So I knew my Will wasn't in there. Yeah, he'd gone. So my Will had left. But his organs were there. And it's funny because I'm actually not religious, but I do really feel Will's spirit with me always.

34:05so it is you know and that's why to be honest I can never really be with my head on my own because there is so many conflicting thoughts so the Will I knew wasn't there so I was happy that his body was going to go through that process because Will wasn't there but Will has subsequently he's in my heart and he's in my head all the time like he would completely lose his shit that I'm talking to you hello that red nose, he'd be like, that's the one for red nose. You know, so he would, and he would sort of love it because I think he always thought he might be a famous cyclist. So to be honest, the fact that we're talking about Will, he would love.

34:49I mean, he wouldn't want to be in these circumstances, but he would love that. So I hear him all the time. He's having a lot of conversations with me.

35:01Davina McCall:I talk sometimes about trusting our gut. Oh, my God. I'm such a gut feeler. And Michael's always said to me, Michael, my husband, has always said to me, but before you trust your gut, you've got to make sure your gut's in good shape. Yes. And I feel like your gut is in amazing shape. But what I used to do is I used to sit on the edge of my bed and ask my sister a question. Yeah. And she would answer. And partially, I think that was my gut. Yeah. But partially, I think it was my sister. Yeah. I know what she'd say to me. You've had to almost have a little bit of her in you because she's not here.

35:36So you're taking her thoughts. And you. Yeah, and I'm doing the same. And I had our drive done shortly after Hook died. And he would have absolutely hated it because it went from tarmac that he could, you know, cycle on easily to these old cobbled, like, stones. And they get really slippy in the winter. And I just knew I could hear him saying, Mum. and I was like yeah but you're not actually on that bike anymore so I thought I could but I could I could have an argument with myself because and I'm sure it's the same you know because we didn't always agree you know like or haircut yeah you know

36:11Davina McCall:and were you saying that about seeing his hair when he was lying there was very touching I think it's that little connection yeah I think also I was very lucky I had seven weeks to say goodbye to my sister yeah you know the greatest seven weeks of my life. We said a lot of unfinished business. You know, we finished, drew a line under a lot of things. I had the same thing with my father. My father died the day before my 21st birthday and he had stomach cancer. And they said he'd live for six months, three months, and he actually lived for six. And honestly, I got to know my father on a whole nother level.

36:50And to your point, like, I see that as such a precious time. And even though, again, he died far too young, I had experienced what that was like. So I already had a slight understanding of what that was going to feel like. And I think you had the same before your sister, didn't you, as well? So you sort of, in some ways, you know what you sort of need to do in order to survive, I think.

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38:34Davina McCall:Even if your teen's been vaccinated in the past, they could still be missing meningitis vaccinations. Ask your teen's doctor or visit meningitis.com today. Sponsored by GSK. Trying to be a bit more mindful of things you buy? For you and your family? Well, when it comes to laundry, choose All Free Clear. 100 % free from dyes and perfumes. All Free Clear uses only essential ingredients that tackle tough stains and odors. And it's gentle on the skin. It's a powerful clean you can feel good about. So go on, pick up a bottle of All Free Clear for your next laundry day. I think anybody listening to your story is that, thanks to you, I called my daughter's boyfriend's mum, whose husband died very suddenly in his sleep at a conference.

39:27Davina McCall:Oh, yeah. Mike. Oh. Because it reminded me to keep calling. Yes, yes. Because it never goes away. that is so true and that whole well I think there's a couple of things like never have any regrets like Will and I didn't fall out you know we talked the night before like never ever you know that whole don't go to bed on an argument because you don't know what's around the corner how important is that please yes you know you you'd have a great relationship with your son and how grateful are you for that now 100 % but also to always check in with people particularly I always say I am a little bit of a crap friend.

40:07Being a busy person, I'm not always like, I'm not always sort of like, oh, we must go for coffee again. But I'm always there if somebody needs me. And when someone is going through something tricky, I like to think that I am there for them because you know that, you know, just that little message that says thinking about you or I absolutely love it when somebody sees a cyclist, even now and says, saw a cyclist today, made me think of Will. Or, oh my God, I went on a sunset and saw this. or someone does a ride for his foundation or something. You know, all those little precious moments and you think it is those checking-ins that are so important.

40:44Davina McCall:Another thing that people have sometimes said that they love when somebody's suddenly lost someone, and I don't know if this was the same for you, was when somebody sends you a photograph that you've never seen before. Oh, my God. Of your son and you're like, oh, I've been gifted him all over again. We've got a lovely friend called Dave who seems to have taken more pictures than I ever realised, who I would say easily every six months, he sends me a picture. And I'm like, where did that come from? And another friend of mine, Sue, she sent me one the other day of Will playing tennis when he was about four.

41:18And I was like, I just love those. And I, you know, it's the pictures and it's just someone saying his name. Yeah. Just somebody in a text. you know like you know there's things like you know you can imagine now a lot of his friends they're going through their 30s they're getting married having children you know they're all tricky times when your chart's not doing those things and it's just people like we had some friends that got married and and they their whole they said they didn't want a wedding list and everybody used to give a a donation to will's foundation and it's things like that little things or even just somebody mentioning his name in a speech and it's like he's gone but he's not forgotten and that is just so important whereas so many people think oh I won't I won't mention Will because it'll upset her and it's like no not mentioning it will upset me let's just touch on

42:12Davina McCall:that because people don't know no then they don't what to say they don't know how to react yeah and it's so interesting some people literally will cross the street oh my god I've had those Richard E. Grant talked about that. I've had those. To just avoid the conversation. And then other people who you least expect from check-in. Yeah. What advice can you give people who just don't know how to broach it? What did you need and how should they go about asking their friends? I do agree. And to be honest, I think before Will, you know, I don't know. I mean, not luckily, but, you know, obviously I'd gone through this before with my father.

42:52So I did sort of know. But I totally understand that people don't. I think the most important thing is people will tell you what they want on the whole. Could you do that? So I'd say first off, if somebody's lost somebody, please acknowledge it. That is the most important thing. And then if some people, if then if you do start talking about it, and I have got a friend who lost their son by a different way, and they don't want people to talk to them about it. And that happened soon after Will's accident, actually. And I completely respected that. But I would say the majority of people and I have read literally every book there is on like literally afterwards, I think for maybe three years, I just got every book on bereavement because I just wanted to read other people's stories.

43:37And like, is there a way to like fathom this, understand it? And people are so good at sharing their, I don't know, the way they articulate how they feel because it's very hard to articulate how you feel. But I mention Will's name all the time. And I think when people see that I'm mentioning his name, they feel more comfortable mentioning his name. But I would always say never, ever ignore it. And somebody said to me, I didn't want to bring up because I didn't want to upset you. I was like, OK, the biggest thing has happened already. I'm already upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything you say cannot upset me.

44:13What really upsets me is ignoring it. And I met somebody and I think it was about three or four weeks after Will died. And I met him and his wife in a store and he said nothing and he knew. And we just talked about the weather. We moved on and I went around the corner and I literally wept because it was the most painful thing. Like he knew what I'd gone through and he didn't say anything. You know, and to be honest, it could have just been a squeeze. It could have just been a squeeze. I know. And I don't know what to say. yeah that's enough you don't have to you know because what you don't want is you don't want

44:49Davina McCall:over sympathizers either you know i don't want that's like a grief thief yes in a way i'm gonna be grieving almost more than you and now it makes it difficult for me and you know what i didn't have any of those but i've heard of those yes and i think they are just as bad i didn't have those but you know i think they call it grief competitiveness don't they and i didn't have those luckily enough but I think just don't ignore it because that is the worst thing and I just love it it you know there was a friend of Will's um who's now a really good friend Tom's had a birthday book and everybody was writing how wonderful this boy George was and it wasn't called boy George he's a boy called George um was for his 30th and there was two mentions of Will in there and I was reading this book all about how wonderful George was but there were two little words of Will in there because I thought Will's never going to have the 30th and it was really small and probably nobody else noticed but I was like, do you know what a little, yeah there was a little hands clapping in my heart I was like oh because you know I want people to be talking about him when he should have been, you know he would have been 31 now but when he's 41 when he's 51, you know and I don't want him ever not to be part of the conversation because Will always wanted to be part of the conversation because he was one of those you know we talked before about kids that are curious, quizvative he was all of those in abundance I'd really like to ask you a bit of advice on a family situation when one very important, well every member of a family is important but when somebody dies you know, Will had Sophie and Tom, he had his mum and dad, but you are all collectively grieving but sometimes in slightly different ways.

46:35Davina McCall:I mean, what's the stat on relationships surviving the death of a child? Well, I didn't know this at the time but somebody put me in touch with a vicar which was WIC because I'm not really religious so I went to see this and I don't know why but I think partly you've lost all your bearings. I mean, can I just tell you something? When something like that happens, I think I just fucking chuck everything to sit. You know, I go anywhere. My husband and I were sitting there and we were both a bit like, what? Why are we here? We did have a nice cup of tea. Yeah, it was nice. But in some ways she put it in a very blunt way.

47:08But what it did do, it was a wake-up call. Because what she actually said was 75 % of couples don't stay together after the death of a child. Which I thought was actually at the time. You're leading in with a, you know, you've gone tea and then you've gone straight into that. We're going some. But actually it was the wake-up call we needed. because the bizarrest of things had happened maybe two months before that. I wanted to make sure that Mint Velvet had had some charities that we supported. So I know this is going a bit left field, but it does connect. So we came up with a women's charity. We came up with an environmental charity.

47:45We came up with a young people's charity and we wanted a local charity. And the local charity I chose was Child Bereavement UK because they were around the corner. They had a head office. and I just thought I can't imagine losing a child and my very first day of what should have been fundraising with the chief executive turned into our first day of counselling after we lost will because after the vicar said that I thought we're going to need help then yeah and so again weird that I'd had chosen that charity and that was the first time I came across child bereavement but I it was a wake-up call realising that you know I could I knew how I felt as losing as the mum but my husband grieved incredibly differently Sophie had lost her big brother you know Tom had lost really what was his twin I mean they were 13 months apart they were at the same university you know it was like it was all going to be different and as much as we were a really close family how were we going to deal with this I struggled with my mum at the beginning because she was 85 she was still here and Will wasn't and I adored my mum she was like the perfect person so all of these things I didn't quite know how I was going to navigate them and I've got to say child bereavement who was set up by Julia Samuels was an absolute lifeline and to this day Rich and I are patrons of their charity.

49:17They do wonderful work. And I would say to anybody that has lost a child, you need them. You might not think you need them, but you need them because for some strange reason, sitting in a room with a husband that you know so well or a partner you know so well, but hearing his thoughts said to a third person that had knowledge of what other people in that situation had gone through, I listened in a way that I wouldn't listen. You know that whole husband-wife listening where you don't really listen at all?

49:51Davina McCall:But I mean, a third party is really important. It is. With helping you deal with that and how annoying it is when you're like, but don't you understand? Why are you doing that? Why are you cleaning the carpet? Or just stuff that you're thinking, I can't, how can you do that? I can't. Well, that was our main rub because at one stage she said to me, Liz, I think you might be project managing grief because I was like setting up a foundation. I was going to, you know, the NHS. I was I'm like, OK, I've got to do things. Yeah. And my husband was like, I want to go and smash someone in the face because I'm so cross.

50:29I'm so angry. And, you know, so we just took it so differently, even though he did have those times as well. but initially you know we were just very different people um and it was really hard because also you were so numb yes you know and like we were just going through the notion the motions you know we were just making the dinner the kid Sophie was going to school Tom was doing this you know just people came around together I cooked them dinner we went after I went back Can I just say something?

51:03Davina McCall:I think the idea that as somebody grieving that anybody would come around and let you cook dinner. No, to be fair, people did do a lot of. I had great friends. I had left at the door. But even so, you know, you still. You want to be normal, right? 100%. And I remember one day I was walking along in London going to meet a friend. and I had to just stop myself and hold on to a, I think it was some railings or something, and I thought, hold a minute, my son has just died and I'm going about living. I can't actually make sense of it. And I kept thinking to myself, how do you make sense of this? Like, I was literally talking to him and now he's not here.

51:48It's like, that is not possible. How is that possible? And I've realised you will never make sense of it. You can never make sense of it. And don't even try. So you have to go on a whole nother road. Yeah. Which is the road that we are on.

52:04Davina McCall:I mean, he did this amazing gift, benevolent gift of giving himself to others to carry on living. Could you just talk me through this amazing experience of people getting in contact with you who received part of will? Yeah. And how do people do that? Yeah. How did they find you? but what did it feel like for you? I feel like there probably is a sort of a, there's probably a documentary in here actually, which is the nursing staff when we lost Will were brilliant and I had this lovely lady transplant nurse called Nikki and she was just wonderful. So they sort of hold your hand through it all and afterwards, they keep in touch with you and then they sent us this lovely letter maybe a month later to say, you know, a little boy of twos got part of his, his liver was so healthy it went to two people.

52:54It went to a little boy who was two. It went to a girl who was about 20, I think, as well. His heart had gone to a guy who was 50. So you know where it goes. Yeah, and they would tell you things like, you know, this father of three girls has never been on holiday. He's never been able to do this. You know, he's got this. And I think it was about 12 people. One didn't work quite early on, which obviously is sometimes the way. I think his lungs went to two different people as well. So he helped so many people. Twelve people? Even his corneas, skin, some of his cells went to, you know, not experiments.

53:41Research. Research. Lost my words. And so it's fantastic. I was like, great. And then nothing. Never hear anything again. I was like, so every few months I was like, hi, Nikki. I was like, has anybody said, like, thank you? Or like, I don't want to get in touch. I don't want to meet them. It's not, can I just clarify there?

54:03Davina McCall:Yeah. It's not that you want thanks. It's that you want to know. The difference. Like, I can now have a life. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, two years down the line, not a word. And then I had, so what they are very good at doing is they still send you this quite anonymous-y type of letter that says, now the man with the heart, he's now gone on holiday. He's now having a lovely time. I'm like, but no, thank you. And I thought, well, to be fair, he probably thinks he's going to upset me. I think that would make sense. I'll write to him. So I wrote to everybody. I don't know the addresses. It all goes in because everything has to be anonymous.

54:41So you write your letters. Does it get sent to them? Yeah, got sent to them. So I sent the letters off. And then I had one letter. No, I had two letters back. One was from a mother. Honestly, it was the best letter ever. And it was like her two-year-old boy who had been so ill and so yellow and never thought he'd go to school, now had this wonderful... And she sent me these lovely pictures and running around. Every night they do a little prayer. And she said, we always thanked our donor, but he never had a name. And now we thank Will. We do a prayer every night for Will. And I was like, do you know what?

55:19That's the best thing. Because I said, you know, you can't upset me. I want to know you're having the best life. And then another gentleman whose father couldn't speak English. And he said, when we left the hospital, we thanked all the medical staff. But we didn't know how to thank the, you know, the donor and the donor family. And he said, so thank you so much for writing. and he said my father and I just constantly constantly say a thanks to to Will and I'm so happy to know that he would have approved of this and so I thought okay we've got a problem here they didn't know they didn't know what to do yes so I got in touch with NHS Blood and Transfusion who were our lovely support system and the CEO at the time said do you know what this is a problem we've got um 95 of families want to know or even live donors want to know and only 11 ever hear

56:15Davina McCall:wait is that true yeah what yeah so the disconnect what so the difference that it would make to the families yeah oh my god 11 i know so i said to her well could you take me on the journey like Where is the business head in me? Where in this organisation is this falling down? Because we've got people, you know, because if I can tell everybody about that little boy, that when another parent thinks twice about he's saying yes to an organ, when they hear my story, they'll say, actually, that helped her in a grieving process. Yes. That's going to help that whole circle. So she said, do you want to come on board?

57:01We would love to actually sort this problem out. And I said, absolutely. So I went and had a few meetings with them. And I've got to say, they were the loveliest people. But they are the NHS. And that's a different world. And like I say, my brother being in the NHS was like, this is not going to be like setting mint velvet up. No one's going to listen to what you say and do it straight away. But they were so lovely. But what I realised is that you have this one organisation that does all the donation and keeps it all sort of the coordination of who needs what, who's on what list, who comes available, all of those sorts of things.

57:40But then the recipient centres where these are the big hospitals that do like the hair field, do all the big organisation of the, obviously the transplant. They are 32 individual hospitals. They have no connection. No connection. They are self - They are run in their own way. Self-contained. Yeah. So what we tried to do, and we met some wonderful nurses. There was a lovely lady called Laura, I remember particularly. And she would come on board and she would say, well, you know, I give them a leaflet. I do this, this, you know, that. She said, but I don't think it's good enough. So we looked at the leaflet.

58:14We looked at the website. And the first thing in the leaflet was like, if you want to write and you don't have to, this is what you should and shouldn't say. I was like, OK, we're starting from the wrong place. So we've got to start off. 95 % of people want to know. Yes. Okay. Yes. So we want to hear. And we're going to help you write that letter if you struggle. Yes. So I did a video, which was awful. And when I look at it now, I was like, no one should cry to video. But it was all about. Very meaningful. Yeah. And it was all about why it was important to write. And it's this virtuous circle.

58:51If I can go around saying to people, did you know Will's heart's gone off around here? Did you know he achieved this? Did you know he went and did that? It'd be like, that is amazing. More people should donate because it makes you feel better in grief. How many people donate? You know, that's a good plan. I don't know.

59:08Davina McCall:We need to find that out. I want to talk to you about someone. Yes. Andy Prigg. Oh, Andy Prigg. Can you tell me about Andy? Yeah. Oh, sorry. No, because I've only just met Andy. Yeah, he's an absolutely extraordinary young guy. So Laura, who was talking about this wonderful nurse from the recipient site, sent me an email about two months ago and said, I've got this guy called Andy. And he's just had a liver and kidney transplant. But he's training to be a doctor. And he wants to be a transplant surgeon. And I was like, oh, great. And she said he saw your video about Will. And so he's written to his family and he's got an amazing story.

59:59I mean, just amazing doing medicine and having a liver and kidney transplant blew my mind. And she said he would like to get in contact with you because he knew about your, because we gave this whole way of trying to get communication better, get communication better. We called it Don't Forget the Donor as an initiative. and she said because we went for about three years of doing this and we took it to as far as we could I thought without it becoming a negative thing so I thought you know we've done our bit we've taken it as far as we can and he was like I want to take it on and I was like I love that so we had a coffee together about three weeks ago and I I did wonder if he might be a bit of a nerd actually I did tell him this because he's so clever can you imagine like being that ill and doing medicine like how do you do that and he'd done these transplant games and he'd won a gold medal cycling and I think cycling I know and he came in and he gave me his gold medal oh my god and I was just literally like blown away and honestly we got on so well and he was this gorgeous gorgeous like so overachieving individual like you know he's got a gold medal in cycling in the transplant games the Olympic transport games and he's doing this and then he wants to do research and then he's got this special play and he's like he is going to change this because the difference with him as opposed to myself is he is in the NHS he knows how to make that organization work because there is a will but the simple scale of the NHS and just how life operates but he can get under the bonnet and he will be able to do this.

1:01:41And not only will he be able to do it because he knows it, he's been on that side. He knows what it's like and he's written to his family and funnily enough, he hasn't heard on the way back from the family. But he's fine with that because he knows that they've got the letter from him and he writes every single year. And so we said we'd keep in touch. And in fact, he texted me the other day with his pictures because he won the gold medal again literally in Sheffield like last week or two weeks again two weeks ago so um yeah he is amazing and I can't believe you know that

1:02:17Davina McCall:interesting is about this concept of we always call it keeping your side of the street clean that when you he made contact it's that he knew that that was the right thing to do yes but how they tell whether he is up to them yes but he knows that he's done the right thing yes he's helped them out yes he's let them know how he is also what happens sometimes in long lost family which is a tv show that i do where yeah we contact people who may have had an incredibly difficult time and sometimes have left a foundling you know somebody where they didn't register their birth or anything yeah yeah there's so much shame attached to that yeah and we never know the feelings around someone but sometimes if you let someone sit with something for long enough yes something will happen six months a year two years three years four years down the line and they'll go i'm ready and actually that was the other thing we said in the don't forget the donor which is even if it's been years it's never too late because i'd never heard from any more than those two.

1:03:32And, you know, it doesn't matter if it's like I say, I would just love to know of the life that these people went on to have. And like I say, I don't want to meet them because they'll never meet my expectations because Will was perfect in my eyes. So they're not going to be like Will. But I just want to know that he made a difference to their lives. And that would make a difference to yours. Yeah. So the fact that Andy wants to take that forward. And like I say, he is a man to watch because, is that his handwriting as well? Oh.

1:04:04Davina McCall:He sent us something and we printed it out. Oh. And we put it in here. Oh my goodness. And we'd love you to read it to us. You know I'm a dyslexic. Can you not read it? Shall I read it to you? Okay. Okay. Andy Prigg. Yes. Oh my goodness. Are you ready? Yes. Dear Liz, I've been lucky enough to meet a fair few inspiring people in my life, but you stand out. Straight off. This is why I couldn't read it. Every time I'm in the theatre or on the starting line at the transplant games, I'm there because somebody gave me the gift of a second chance. Meeting you made that real to me in a way nothing else has.

1:04:48Davina McCall:What that gift actually costs and what it looks like to carry it with such grace. What inspires me the most is watching you get on with each day with a smile after everything you and your family have been through and clearly with better taste than me. Running mint velvet, you've got a style I could only dream of. I'm lucky if I've matched my socks before a race. What did I say, Lord P? Isn't he adorable? He's so adorable. The work you've built through the Will Houghton Foundation is part of that same grace, turning something unimaginable into something that keeps giving to other families. So here it is, as simply and as genuinely as I know how.

1:05:40Davina McCall:Thank you. Oh my goodness. That's a perfect letter as well, isn't it? And that's all thanks to that little girl. An amazing gift with words. Yeah. Wow. And the good that he will do. Oh, my God. With his life. He is going to be someone. I can just sense it in my bones. He's already talking about looking at the drugs and researching the drugs that stop the body rejecting organs and the longevity of the transplant. You know, he's someone that will not stop till he has made a difference in life. And I just love that he, to your point, he has just gone over and above, hasn't he, in terms of delivering that in all aspects.

1:06:26Davina McCall:I wonder, I know someone else like that. You. Can we talk about the Will Houghton Foundation because he talks about that in the letter. Just how did that start and what do you do? Well, to be honest, it's actually a very personal thing to the family, really. And I think it's because Will did want to be this cyclist. And I don't think he wanted to be famous, but I think he wanted to be something in the world. And he loved his kit always matching. And he did quite like clothes. And so part of it started off is I sort of wanted a website to Will. At the same time, I wanted to do a little bit like the Red Nose.

1:07:11you know I wanted to give back to other people so we start off just saying whatever we would have spent on Will, Will just do in the foundation. I didn't want to run a charity because running a charity is a very very particular skill and lots of charities come and go particularly when you are so emotionally driven to do something and you think I'll do that but then keeping that up for ever or you know changing what you might do and I knew that I didn't have that skill set so So we set the foundation up and people were absolutely brilliant. So what they did for us, they started to do runs and work organised.

1:07:47A Walk for Will was the first one. So we do this lovely. How lovely. So now we do everything. We've had Zipwire for Will. We have Ride for Will. We have Marathon for Will. You know, we've done them all for Will. And the charities we choose are either, they're all for young people and children who really could change their life through sport and education. and the one that particularly always comes out for us that we cannot leave is care leavers because we will's big thing was if you don't have a family like i've got yeah how on earth do you navigate this world so we our patrons have become which is a fantastic natural national nationwide charity um and so we do all these things like that so really it's friends and families raise money, we give money, and then we support other charities that support young people.

1:08:38But what it means is like, you know, we all wear these lovely sweatshirts with, you know, Will Hound Foundation, we do a different t-shirt for every walk. Sophie, my daughter, designs a different t-shirt for every walk. And when I go to anybody's house, nine times out of 10, the husbands are wearing the Walk for Will t-shirt. So I'm seeing Walk for Will, I'm seeing Will Hound Foundation, like in all our friends and family and it's so nice and and I know Will would approve because it's so nicely designed and so he is just ever present yeah but what he would love is it's doing good as well so again it's this if and I'm such a believer in like you can make things better and we're never going to get Will back but we're not going to forget him and he's going to have an impact on others thanks to you and to him and to him Liz I want to thank you for so many things um firstly

1:09:31Davina McCall:for sharing your experience and your strength so obviously a terrifying and terrible experience but you have helped so many people going through the same thing today in particular as well and and everything that you've said. Thank you for making me feel such a boss bitch in my clothes. And I'm going to thank you on behalf of all the other people that have loved wearing mint velvet. So thanks for that. And you've been really inspiring. So it's been really lovely having you here today. I'm going to give you this from Andy. Yes. Oh, thank you so much. That's a framer. Oh, my God, it is, isn't it?

1:10:09Davina McCall:Yeah. That is just so beautiful. But thank you. If you stay in that chair, brace yourself. I'm going to give you a massively, embarrassingly long hug. Thank you. Oh, thank you. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.