Managing Anxiety: Begin Again Moments

0:00Fearne Cotton:Where do you think this staying up all night and thinking about something and going over something you said comes from? Is there an event in your life where you think, oh my God, you know, I said this to someone and this happened? Yes. Yes. I mean, I went through a whole ton of shit in my late 20s, early 30s. And I guess I've spent the last seven years writing and talking around events, but never about them necessarily. Talking more about the feelings and the repercussions and the hangover from it. And it was a deeply challenging era that still troubles me greatly. and I'm still in therapy every damn week and I'm very lucky to be able to do so um and I'm still um triggered by the same things I'm still um unnerved by stuff in my past but there is a lovely incremental climbing out of a big deep ditch that I was in and it is a bit of a wiggly line but it's definitely a wiggly line that goes up and I really really felt it uh we just had the Happy Place Festival in Manchester yeah I saw that and on the Sunday I felt so overwhelmed but in the best way and I stood on the stage thanking everyone for coming and I could have wept my heart out but I was so happy and I was so content and I was so comfy with um feeling like it was okay to have all those people there, not sort of undeserving or like out of body experience.

1:46Fearne Cotton:I thought, yeah, I've done this and this is fucking great. And I felt really happy. And, um, but in my body, I wasn't like euphoric floating around. And it really made me think back to like, say 13 years ago, an unrecognizable person who no way could have done that, but I've still got a long way to go there is no way I would want to host a live tv show I would want to host a live radio show there is no way that I could sleep in um I don't know a house with a bunch of people that I don't know really really well or even I do know well sleep's a massive issue still so I've still got these really niche things that I can't get over yes I cannot get and I will but I feel and I've got over like I couldn't drive on the motorway at one point for about five years I didn't drive in the motorway and I have conquered that one so I know they're conquerable but I can't do it at the moment I don't know why I really really struggle with those three things and then there are a few others but they're the big ones um that I I don't even know where to begin but if you said oh you've got to go and do live tv show now and present it like I did for hundreds of years before no way there's no way so you you were okay doing it at the beginning oh more like I was complacent I was just like talking to you now there was no switch that went on where I was on live tv I was just doing it you know from a very young age I did live tv from 16 Disney right yeah we did dig it which is I did Disney club which was pre-recorded then from 16 onwards yeah dig it was live smile was live, did with Reggie.

3:35Fearne Cotton:I had a whole host of live TV shows, back to back, Top of the Pops was live at one point. I didn't even feel nervous. I used to love it, used to thrive in that environment. Now I would have a panic attack in a heartbeat. There's no way. And it's not even directly rooted to that era. There's nothing about what I was going through that is directly related to the outcome but that's the weird thing I think with going through challenging stuff that it these sort of darts these arrows end up going into all these different bits of your life that are unrelated and you can't figure out the root of it or why but they're there and they become you know you become sort of obsessional about them which is the problem so I would like to tackle those down the line luckily my career isn't dependent on it these days and I'm grateful for that but I would like to just for my own confidence and just to sort of overcome more areas, especially the sleep one.

4:33I would love to sort that out.

4:35Fearne Cotton:Talk me through your sleep. My sleep is not great. I mean, I just have to have the right environment and then I can sleep. So I, for the majority of the time, sleep in the spare room because I am so obsessional about noise, whether it's my husband's snoring, which many people do, or if I'm in a new environment, like I'm not a fan of hotels, because I don't know if there's going to be thick enough double glazing, or if doors are going to shut in corridors. If I hear like doors shutting, I know I'm screwed. I will not sleep. And before, I could sleep anywhere. I would be able to sleep on the rug there in a heartbeat.

5:14Fearne Cotton:You know, I spent my life in my 20s going from different time zones. I never got jet lagged. I'd just sleep anywhere. Now, any noise and I'm on high alert and then my heart starts racing and I can feel panic and adrenaline and these big adrenaline rushes and then I'm just up all night. So, and I, that relates again to like, if I had, well, I was still pushing through and sort of, if I was covering for Zoe on radio too, I used to cover for her on breakfast. Knowing that I had that the next day, I definitely wouldn't sleep and I'd be catastrophizing all night catastrophizing and I can do it in my eyes closed like I know how that show works I love doing it when I'm there but the level of catastrophizing would give me these big adrenaline rushes and then I would just be awake all night and it got to the point where you know two weeks in I was on my knees and I had to say to the head of Radio 2 I love doing this show so much and I could do it with such ease but the night before is torture and I can't do it to myself anymore and it was horrible saying that I wanted to do the job but I couldn't do it and I still couldn't do it now there's no way so god this is this is amazing because I I I read you as like such a calm person but I think you keep yourself in a calm environment yeah in an environment that's safe for you yeah but I still you know so there was I don't want you to talk about something you don't want to talk about so there was something that happened yeah that triggered uh but you didn't really have anxiety at all before that no no no I don't suppose I did I mean I no I don't suppose I don't think I'd ever felt I mean I understand normal nerves for a live tv show but absolutely like nerves if I had a big new like when I started doing children in need when I was in my early 20s you know that was a big deal I was in love with Sir Terry and I still am and that felt like you know there would be healthy nerves but I would do the job just fine I would sleep the night before right I'd feel fine but that has gone out the window maybe it's possible to go back to feeling like that but it's so weird because say doing this or say when I'm doing my podcast or on a stage doing a big talk in front of thousands of people feel fine totally fine like unbelievably calm and actually so connected to what I'm doing and engaged with it.

7:41Fearne Cotton:I'm not disassociating. I'm not floating out my body. I love it. Like doing the festival this weekend, we had thousands of people. I'm doing talks on the stage. Absolutely fine with public speaking. It's something about being in other people's domain, like doing something for the BBC, doing something for ITV where I'm not on my turf. I'm on their turf. Anyone could say anything to me. I've got to deliver what they want me to deliver. Do I know what that even is? How am I meant to be? It's all too confusing for my brain and the pressure is way too much, way too much. So I have found, luckily, ways of forging a new career.

8:25Fearne Cotton:I'm so grateful I've had a part two, which is on my terms and it's been a slow burn, but we're in a really good place now and it works for me and I can create projects where I feel safe and I feel comfortable luckily but I feel like I've got a purpose behind it now which I maybe didn't before didn't necessarily have that like this is why I'm getting out of bed in the morning so I've been really really lucky that I can keep working because for some people you can't you know you you can't do that one thing that you you know how to do so I've been able to shapeshift a little bit but you know it's been rough along the way but it feels good now.

9:10I think we've evolved in our language, our understanding, our ability to reflect, the ability to have conversations so now things are much more like back in the day, like even back in my day you just didn't talk about depression or anxiety or mood or even addictions, things just weren't talked about so things were buried and put onto the carpet and And there was very much a mentality of just kind of get on with it and plow through. Whereas I think actually now that really has started to evolve. So, of course, the more aware people become, you know, they then suddenly start to think, oh, God, it doesn't feel quite right.

9:45So things then do feel a bit more threatening. And not only the external world, but I think people are starting to become more aware of their internal workings. Now, there's a double-edged sword here. I think there's a danger that people over-pathologize themselves. because I think, you know, when I hear people say, oh, I'm an anxiety sufferer and I say, no, you're not. You experience anxiety. So I'm not interested in playing people with diagnostic labels or I don't believe in the word disorders. I don't think anyone is disordered. I think we need to remove that. Anxiety disorders, depressive disorders.

10:17I think human beings fluctuate. Sometimes their mood can drop. Sometimes their anxiety can increase and sometimes we're in between. And other things can happen around that. but I think it's part of the human condition to fluctuate. And I think we've got to get much better at saying, OK, rather than see yourself as an anxiety sufferer or I'm anxious. No, no, no. You experience anxiety and you're experiencing a very healthy, normal human mechanism. But sometimes that part of you, the scared part of you works way harder than it needs to. And I think it's a much more helpful way to think about anxiety.

10:51And I do believe, you know, I look, I know the addiction community. some people are going to have a go and say, oh, it's not an addiction.

10:58Fearne Cotton:I disagree. Well, as a former addict, I can give you a little bit of an insight into that. I disagree with that. I think that addiction would be very easy to get addicted to. When you were talking about that in here, I was like, no, no, I must talk to you about that and say, because addiction has its benefits. Of course it does. Of course it does. And I mean, anxiety has its benefits. That's what I was trying to say. So anxiety is helpful. For me, low level anxiety, cortisol, that I've kind of had all my life with my mum being an alcoholic, ready for anything. Oh my God, are you going to streak?

11:41Fearne Cotton:Are you going to get drunk? Are you going to arrest someone? My mum used to citizens arrest people all the time. Like it was like, all the time. I was ready for anything. Bring that to work. Amazing. I'm so alert. and on it and full of energy and like people pleaser. Yeah. Wants to do the right thing. I was like, I like this feeling. So it's that weird high that you can get from anxiety. And it's a lot. You talk about that. Yeah. And you've described that brilliantly there because every addict I've ever met or work with in my entire career will have a love-hate relationship with their addiction.

12:18So there'll be part of it is like, oh, fucking hell. I know I shouldn't be doing this and I don't want to do it, but I'm going to still do it. And you'll find exactly the same thing with anxiety because they won't like the feelings that come with anxiety. But then when you try and take it away from them in therapy, they will resist you, they will fight you, they will fucking bring you down because they don't want to let go of it. And there's, I don't know if you remember from the book, but there's this brilliant moment. This book was born quite a few years ago before I even started to write it.

12:46So I was running a group in the NHS and this was for like 16 people, chronic anxiety. They'd been everywhere. all sorts of treatment. The psychiatrist I was working with at the time knew I had an interest in trauma and anxiety and he said why don't you set up a group, these are people that some services have given up on, they've been everywhere, why don't you set up a group and see what you can do with them. So he kind of gave me a free reign to work with them and I said okay let's do it. So anyway I set up this group and about eight weeks into the treatment I noticed that they were all starting to improve, every one of them.

13:21Things were later in the room, there's a lot more banter. They were coming in, they were sharing stories. You could see there was a real sense of freedom starting to move into their lives. So me being the, you know, responsible therapist at the time, I thought, okay, I'm going to feed back to them that I think, you know, I really noticed a good improvement. So I say to him, look, we're, you know, eight weeks into the program, brilliant to see everyone looks and feels and sounds a lot later than they were. And the minute I said it, it was like, fucking hell. Like, you wouldn't have heard a pin drop.

13:55It was just like deadly silence. And I thought, I said, what's the silence about? And this one guy who was a recovering addict, brilliant guy, I remember him saying, fucking hell. He said, I thought giving up coke was hard. He said, giving this up is hard as well. and then they all laughed. He said, this is as addictive as Coke. And then when we started to explore it a bit more, they were all able to acknowledge that the thought, the moment I named recovery meant that they were moving away from the anxiety and that became frightening. Yes. So the letting go of anxiety became a real concern and they all got what he said.

14:42But not only did they get it, I got it. and I remember thinking there is an addictive component to anxiety because it comes with a promise of safety.

14:51Fearne Cotton:Yes. It's going to protect you. So even though it might feel uncomfortable in the body, in the mind, the emotional states, the behaviours, actually if the alluring promise in the background is I'm going to make sure that nothing happens to you, I'm going to make sure that you don't get rejected, I'm going to make sure that you don't feel, people really struggle to let that go. Okay guys, I need you in my Begin Again gang. Listen, it's the most funnest, most awesome club in the whole world and I want you to be part of it. So when you sign up to our newsletter, you get all the bits that I don't share anywhere else.

15:32Fearne Cotton:Things that I'm loving, what I'm reading, my favourite outfits, some of the most gorgeous Begin Again stories that you've sent in. I actually really love reading those. It's one of my favorite parts of the week. And the really fun bit is I will also share some Begin Again secrets, like what guests we've got coming up and you'll know before anyone else does. Shh, don't tell everyone. So come and join the best gang ever. The link's right below and it just takes five seconds and it's free.