Paloma Faith: How I Knew When To Leave! Our Relationship Is Better After We Split. Dating Over 40 Is Tough!

0:00I think I had postpartum depression for a couple of years. Did it make you feel a bit scared? I said to him, I really want another baby. Can I do it? And he said, I don't think we'll make it as a couple. Really? You know, there's this midlife thing. Dating in midlife is really, really hard, I think. Definitely don't want to date someone who's a fan of my music. I only like people who think it's rubbish. Are the people in successful relationships genuinely successful or are those people just compromising? You come with a lot of baggage. Unless you are prepared to work through that, you won't have a healthy relationship.

0:40You can easily get mixed up with emotional attachment so you can attach to someone before you realise. I think I made my biggest breakthroughs after my breakup. It really changed my life. That is when you know that you've done the right thing. I have this feeling that now I'm having another lie. I feel sexier than I ever was. What I love about the person I am today is that I'm yes how old would you have been when you understood that you found it hard to receive help I think the the moment I read the first moment I really needed help was my was childbirth so probably 34 35 can't remember how old it was when I had my first child and I got really sick and it was definitely not the picture perfect experience I thought it would be.

1:31And I was vulnerable for a long time in a physical sense. I couldn't really stand for three months afterwards. After you'd given birth? Wow. Because I had like several infections and it was a bit of a, it was like, you know, a lot of things went wrong. I was on antibiotics for a long time. It wasn't healing and yeah, very depleted. And then I think after that, I just realized, oh, my God, in order to be able to help this mini person, I'm going to need some help. And I just didn't know how to ask. I didn't know how to receive. I didn't know where to look. And I think, yeah, I think I had postpartum depression for a couple of years before I realized.

2:17And I didn't realize I had it because I was in it until it cleared. Are you okay talking about your relationship with your ex-husband, partner? Partner, yeah. Because obviously this is such a big part of how you're kind of helping other people. And this is called begin again. And I think actually leaving the father of your children is such a massive time to begin again. Yeah. And a huge time for self-reflection. so how old were you when you met him I was 31 and he was 24 right and what was that like um was it like I think it was the closest to love at first sight I've ever experienced in a cynical way like I was like that doesn't exist but I was in a relationship at the time and I was with friends I wasn't in London when I first met him and I turned to my friend and I said I need to get out of the relationship I'm in because I'm obsessed with that guy I hadn't even spoke to him um and I was like even if he's I was like I said I hope he's an idiot but even if he isn't an idiot I'm still need to be not in the relationship I'm in because if I'm that feeling that strongly about someone else this isn't a right one to be in kind of thing I think it's funny when you talk about begin again because in a sense even though I ended the relationship with him it feels like I began again with him as well yeah so I do have a really good relationship with him now and I have a lot we have a lot of respect for each other and a lot we still say I love you which I think will be difficult for the person that I end up with but it's kind of like it is has to be that way so So, you know, at the moment, that's how it is.

4:13I feel like our relationship has changed shape, but it's a better relationship now than it was. I mean, I think what's always a very healthy way to look at your ex, even if it's ended acrimoniously, which sometimes they do. Initially, it was terrible. And we did loads of work on trying to, we began again. We did. We started from the beginning and we remembered all the bits we liked about each other. And even like, because we did separation therapy, even speaking to that therapist, sometimes she was a little bit harsh and we'd laugh and bond afterwards. Like, right, should we stay on just and just chat about how insanely harsh this was?

5:00But we kind of bonded over there. I'd want to ask you about separation therapy. What is that? Yeah, so we did have relationship therapy when we were falling apart. And I don't personally feel like we had a great experience in that. Right. If you don't both feel heard, it's very difficult, I think. Yeah, and it doesn't work so well because often you're in it to sort of prove that you've done the best you can, but it's sort of already over. Right. Got to be honest with yourself. Yeah, but then I met another person who was a therapist, and she mentioned separation therapy to me. She was like, you know, you're going to have a relationship with him for the rest of your life because you have children together, and so you should work on that relationship for them.

5:50And we did, and she recommended someone, and this woman was just amazing. I sort of wished that she'd been our couple's therapist because she was harsh and I need that because I can easily dominate a situation and just be like, no, and it's fair, isn't it? And she was just like, whoa, you need to shut up a second. And I loved it. How refreshing, yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh, okay. She's like, no, he's talking, you know, like all of that and vice versa. It felt really fair. And I think that we realized that all was not lost in a way. And I think sometimes when we first break up and it feels like we've hurt each other so much over an extended period of time, you just think it's broken.

6:40It's never going to be okay. But it was. And sometimes we still get irritable. Like the other day, he won't mind me saying, I got annoyed with him and he was annoyed back. And then he just went, I'll have a great evening. and I just wrote ha ha ha back on the text because I was like that is kind of the luxury of not actually being together as you could be like we don't have to continue talking to each other we're not like forced you know he'll probably laugh yeah when he sees that goes oh god yeah when we saw each other again three days later for like swapping kids we just were like hello you're right it was just fine it diffused isn't that funny that you can have a much better relationship with somebody apart like that is when you know that you've done the right thing i still think he's one of my best friends yeah and sometimes we get like if we're emotional or tired we both get a bit upset about that but then also grateful that there's that there might be a future for it you know well there has to be because we've got kids oh you mean a friendship not a not a not a relationship not a relief you know that that's over yeah because there is like that kind of weird gray area when if you are getting on really well then you think why why can't you stay together yeah but I feel like that's a dynamic that I I know I don't want yeah Yeah.

8:10Okay. It's fine. Yes. So I did want to talk to you a little bit about your struggle to get pregnant because often also women in their 40s might be thinking, last chance saloon, I want to get pregnant, it's not as easy. What was that journey like for you? Well, it's horrible and people sort of say, oh, you can just do IVF like a flippant thing. Yeah. but it really isn't and I think emotionally was the hardest thing um when we first started trying I had already had some really like I'd been pregnant quite easily so I was concerned and it's what's interesting as well is that to me and it does irritate me is that science because it is mainly dominated by men means that if it's a male fertility problem which it was in our case is still the woman that has to endure the brunt of the stuff.

9:11And it's like there's been no breakthrough. I mean, he was devastated the whole time. Like if there was something I could take or I could do injections, I'd do that because it's, why does it have to fall on you? But it did, and it does, just like most medicine, most medicines tested on men and for men and in favor of. um so but it did sound like he was he was empathetic he was empathetic but I think that put a strain on our relationship in itself yeah because he was like his view was you're so hard working you're such a go-getter you provide you know you bring more to the table breadwinner and all of that and all I had to do was this and I can't do it I can't even do something to help and that was difficult.

10:01I think that's really important that it's talked about because it's not talked about enough. And it's quite often when you say I had IVF, everyone assumes it's a female fertility issue. And the reason why I point it out that it wasn't is because of that, because everyone just goes, oh, it's the female side because it's us doing all the injections. but so it was difficult because I knew as well that I could just conceive naturally and I think that put a strain on us because I'm not somebody who buries my feelings I just say you know this is frustrating it's better like that though I think get them out well I yeah get them out get them out rather than quietly resenting someone yeah exactly but so we did all that and then the birth was not ideal and when we came to lockdown the fertility clinic called me and said oh we're still open and obviously you're not working as much do you want to have another baby and I was like what they called you yeah wow and I was like I really do and then I called and then I said to him I really want another baby and they're right like we're not I'm not working as much I've got time to relax I'm not stressed can I do it and he said I don't think we'll make it as a couple so he knew and what and I was like I want to do it anyway it was it what you'd gone through yeah postnatal depression I think the pressure the resentment as well like I just felt alone and like I said like I think we we touched on a few of these issues um but like you know there's this midlife thing and you're you're like looking at a perimenopause around the corner and then a menopause and you're just like last chance saloon and you've spent like the first half of your life like you know building up who you are growing confidence knowing what you like maybe stop apologizing for what you like um and you just get to this point where you're quite frazzled I think I think we do have kids too late because we're quite exhausted by the time we have them and then I just was like I was raised lonely child so I just had it in my head I need to give this child a sibling as a major breadwinner which a lot of women are nowadays and um a parent you know I know you've spoken about this before and I find it so great to hear other women talking about it because it's a lot it's a lot going to work and having little kids and kind of feeling like the onus rests on us as women to do the majority of the parenting and cleaning and keeping house and working.

13:09What was that experience like for you? I always used to say to people that I felt like a single parent even in a relationship. I guess the difference is that the loneliness at times, like when you put the kids to bed and then you're just on your own. But you get used to that, I guess. It takes a while, though. Yes, I mean, I think men, generally speaking, are getting better each generation. My partner is an amazing dad and I'm in awe of his parenting. um so I do think that that's amazing and you had future generations you know we our boys will get better and better and better I hope at sharing but I'm exhausted and I do think that it's unfair and I'm still exhausted even though we're separated it's still always on me And sometimes even my kids perpetuate the imbalance.

14:14Like they'll say to me, well, it's you that's got to do it. And I'm like, why? Yeah, well, well done. Good challenge. Yeah, why is it me? And then they say because they might, I mean, she has said like because papa's too tired or something. And I say, well, why don't you think I am? You know, like. But I mean, you are a ball of energy as well. And, you know, you are an independent person. And this is sometimes, it's interesting how. I resent my own independence at the moment, though. Do you? Or did you? Do you know what I have always found it incredibly hard to do is ask for help. And that sometimes also comes in support.

14:59So I am learning now, ripe old age. I'm 57 next week. Congrats. You look hot as hell. I am. Thanks. I mean, like you, I feel like we're quite similar. I refuse to grow old gracefully. Yeah. I am not doing it. No. No. I mean, no way. Hot pants. I'm going to be naughtier as I get older. Hot pants, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. But being supported in something, I find it really, really hard to be vulnerable and to say, I'm really struggling. Please, can you help me? Same. And I'm learning how to do it. I don't even know how to say that to myself. Like sometimes I don't know that I've been struggling until it stops, the struggle feeling stops.

15:45And then you can say to somebody, I've already been struggling but I'm okay now. Yeah, exactly. How are you going to learn to stop doing that? I don't know. I've started by saying it but I need to learn to demonstrate it and I find that really uncomfortable. It makes me feel awkward. does it make you feel a bit scared of being left like if I I'm this independent person you're going to find me really attracted because I'm like this but if I'm vulnerable and I show you I need you are you going to leave me because I'm saying that because that's how I've felt in the past and actually what I've realized is being vulnerable cements a relationship sometimes because they're like, oh, you do need me.

16:32I kind of feel like not so worried about being left anymore because I've been through this huge breakup. And you're fine. And I'm fine, yeah. And I think before maybe, before that one, I would have been worried about being left. What I'm worried about more than anything is that I've evolved as a feminist woman in such a way that there isn't a relationship for me because I will not tolerate I find it difficult to tolerate less than what I expect and because I set such high standards for myself I think I set high standards for other people and I've become fussy and I didn't used to be fussy um I used to just be like oh we'll just fix it or we'll have a project and now I get very upset when I meet people and realise that I've grown an attachment to them but they seem like a project and I find it, I don't want it.

17:38I really hope you're enjoying this episode and if you can, give us a follow. What I'm interested in is like dating in midlife is really, really hard I think. Yeah. Because men don't stay single. They're single for about three minutes, they're really good ones. You think, oh my God, where have they all gone? Whereas women are so happy to stay on their own for ages. And also as someone famous, how do you do that? How do you date? I try to not worry about being famous just in life in general because I don't think it's that healthy. No, but like, isn't it, can you go on dating apps? I did. Did you?

18:18Yeah, I don't like them. I've written an article about it if anyone's more interested in the deeper thoughts. but I yeah with the fame thing I just it's it's not good for me or healthy for anyone if I get worried about it or become paranoid or whatever like I can't do that it's good for my kids or anything so I just sort of go everyone else who's worried about it that's their thing but I'm not so I just carry on I get on my bus sometimes I go on the tube I go on supermarket Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. I do all of that. I'm not bothered. But I was thinking dating. And the same, I went on the dating app as me.

18:58It makes you quite vulnerable. Yeah, I mean, that's amazing. But I don't really, I didn't look at anyone's messages that directly messaged me. I just looked at people that I liked so it was a match. Right. I didn't, like, read anything appeals. Right. Because they all started with, I'm a big fan of your music. What? Definitely don't want to date someone who's a fan of my music. I only like people who think it's rubbish. um but but yeah so I did that and I don't think my experience of dating apps is much different to anybody else's because I'm famous but I think it's a melting pot of um damaged and um you know resolved people and I also think that a lot of men on there go on there for like an ego booth and use it like a really free way to get sex without attachment.

19:55So you've got to be careful on there. And I think maybe I was a bit naive when I did it at first. And also... How long ago did you do it? Well, I'd done it a couple of times, gone on and off, like people I go love-hate relationship with it. it started when I was just feeling like I was in that baby jail phase because when I broke up with my ex the baby was quite young so when they were about one I went on it because you're always at home with the baby and they're putting them to bed and sitting next to the cot and all of that stuff you're just like what am I gonna do I'll just yes okay like just ironically I'd done that in a music video before I'd even broke up with my ex I did a scene with a baby sat next to me oh my god and it was like a prophecy oh my god it was a kind of joke at the time and then I was like the jokes become real jokes on me yeah um but yeah I just did it as kind of to feel the time waiting for the kids to go to sleep sort of thing but I didn't do it in a serious way but then I met some people and everyone's really damaged and I don't know I don't have any answers I don't think I would go on it again I I have deleted them all I don't think they're of interest to me I think um that I've got too much depth for the people I met on there yeah I mean I think the other thing is the the damage is quite interesting I do that tv show called my mum your dad yeah and And it's eight to 12 single men and women between sort of 45 and 50, 50, well, 60.

21:43Yeah. And but what is interesting about people at our time of life is that you come with a lot of baggage. And unless you are prepared to work through that, you won't have a healthy relationship. You've got to let go of the damage that's been done either to you or by you. Both are damaging. I think both always apply anyway. Exactly. You contribute to everything. You contribute to everything. Even just by your choices. Yes. Yeah. And even just that awareness is important. I mean, divorce, I always think, is a 50-50 thing. Yeah. I always say that on stage. Which I've been saying on this tour, like, takes two to get together just like it takes two to break up.

22:29Yeah. And people love to vilify and say, this person did this and they were the one that said it. But it's like, you don't say that, especially not when there's kids involved unless things are really bad. So everyone contributes. but you know if you're if if you or people not one if one is going to find a meaningful relationship in the future then everybody's got to start working through their own their own stuff um you know you mentioned therapy earlier is that how you would work through something i feel like it's a combination of things um it's plugging in with my really amazing support network.

23:13I've got amazing friends and I feel like they're, I attribute a lot to them. I think they're amazing, the women that I know. So there's a lot about the sisterhood. And yes, I do therapy and I always have, but I've done different types of therapy because just psychotherapy doesn't, it's a little bit I don't like this for me personally as somebody who's got ADHD I like something a bit more structured and focused and short yes with a target sure um rather than just like well just go and talk about you know so I've done one that really helped me was called cat therapy cognitive analytic therapy oh yeah and it's only 16 to 24 weeks but it's so targeted yeah and I think I made my biggest breakthroughs after my breakup doing that type of therapy um it really changed my life actually the other thing about you is that you are incredibly honest which I think frees other people up to be to be more honest um why did you write the book was it to help others who might be going through a similar journey but But also to know that you can still be yourself and fun and you're still in there.

24:36I guess simultaneously giving myself permission to be myself while writing it. But also, and it was validating the reception it had of people going, thank you, because I felt like that. But I also think that when I was looking at literature about this point in life where a lot of us are, who are more like women with careers tend to have babies later and then we're looking we're basically like career career career career baby perimenopause menopause like it's like squashed in at the end it's like all these overwhelming things and then um I just felt like there wasn't much literature about me as a person it was all about how to look after a baby like but not how to look after myself yes because you originally the working title for it was the birth of a mother but then I realized I'd written more about also just about being a woman in general and about women who don't have kids and about how mothers come in many forms not just biological children and so it was the wrong title in the end but it was sort of about giving birth to yourself when you give birth initially and it was that feeling that like I didn't feel that there was much out there for me I felt a bit isolated so I wrote it for that I've been thinking about the power of community lately thanks to our favorite creative tool and sponsor Adobe Express you might know it as the quick and easy create anything app from Adobe but it's also a really buzzing creative network.

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26:52But having the right people around you can really make all the difference. So if you're ready to take on your next big thing, don't be afraid to reach out. It's not as scary as you think. There are loads of helpful people out there and they want to help you along the way. So search for Adobe Express to find out more and get the app for free. Sunday Times bestseller, like straight off the bat, right? Yeah, it was nine weeks as a best. Isn't that amazing? I couldn't believe it, honestly. I just couldn't believe it. What do you think it was that spoke to people? I think it's just the honest, the true, and then feeling validated, seen, and not so bad, not so hard on yourself for having things like ideal, talking about the fact that I didn't immediately connect with the baby, like stuff like that that we're ashamed to talk about my hemorrhoids that's a favorite of mine um like yeah body body positivity I'd love to be body positive it was difficult for me at that time to be um all these things that we're not allowed to say because the zeitgeist is that we've got to nail everything and we just don't have to nail everything I also want to talk to you about the glorification of sadness because I'm so into this idea of a chronological album can you tell me when did you write it was it last year well it started I started writing it before my breakup when it was sort of um yeah and then it just it just goes through the whole process and then dating again at the end what was it like and how long did it take you to write it because if you were writing it while you were still leaving and it was about sort of 18 months really what kind of music do you like what do you listen to all kinds right so it depends on what I'm doing at the time but for this album who were you channeling I didn't do much referencing other music because it felt very pure yes it was like so raw and like present that it didn't really it kind of came out of me and a lot of this it's amazing yeah it's amazing how as well like musicians are very empathetic people so quite often we'd start with me just sitting crying and saying like what had happened that day or something just feeling like a failure and then they're just they'd just be so full of empathy that they're translating to music I want to talk to you about MILF yeah um because there's a there's a certain sort of a reference that I just fucking love about you and always have done and what is your plan like how do you see yourself in 20 years time well I don't believe that if you're creative I don't think the medium's relevant I think you just keep making stuff and it doesn't matter how you express it so I'll keep doing that because I don't know how to do anything else and it's all a journey and I don't think an artist's work really stops until they're dead yeah so you just keep going so I might be writing films or be in them or write more books or whatever music or all um but 20 years time I feel I hope that my kids still like me that's my main thing um and I think that I will in 20 years time perhaps be the right age for my personality so tell me about that do you not feel the right age for your personality now no I'm getting closer the older I get the closer I feel I'm getting but like I feel like I've always been um sort of silly and fun in a way that I think suits an older person like that no shit's given thing yes um and i've and everyone else feels quite inhibited to me yes and i feel like i'm just not like i don't i was talking to somebody this morning actually and they were saying what what their bugbear was like what their trigger is and mine i realized just from having this conversation this morning is being misunderstood i said i don't care about being embarrassed like I don't really get that like I don't like really care like people are always like saying to me when I week like if I need a wee I'll just go for a wee that's my thing I'll just go between cars or whatever people are like plume of faith behind the car wee and I was like I don't care that's the least of my problems I just don't care like well I might have happened to me once I was weeing between two parked cars.

31:56Did you become a meme? Thank God it was pre-cameras. I was weeing between two parked cars and there was someone in one of the cars and they turned their lights on. And you can't stop, you know, like I was mid-wee. I was like, hi, hi. Sorry, this is full flow. But, yeah, I feel like I'm really looking forward to ageing And I feel like when we say to each other that we are never going to get old, it's because I feel like I've been the same age my whole life. I was born in an age which I think is about 35. And I think I'll continue to be 35 till the day I die. But my wardrobe is definitely geared towards somebody in their 80s.

32:43What do you want? I hope so. No, you've got to keep dressing outrageously for the rest of your life. But that's what I mean. Oh, good. You know, like, I feel like my current wardrobe's the wardrobe of an 80-year-old, quite cool woman. I want to keep wearing it. You think that's an 80-year-old woman? The 80-year-old woman I want to be is this. Okay, if you stay like that to your age, I'll be very happy. Do you follow that advanced style person? No. Who does all the photos, street photography of retired people in amazing outfits. Oh, no. That's where I get a lot of style tips. So I'm going to go on that site for advice from like older women who've like, there's this one lady who dyes her hair orange and she cuts the ends of her hair off and uses the ends as her eyelashes and she just glues her orange dyed hair onto her eyelids.

33:36Genius. So good. So moving forward with your life, I feel like a bit like I was at your age. you know what's quite nice is I feel we're quite similar we've got kids the same age you know I had them at the same age as you I had one a little bit earlier I had one at 33 then 36 then 39 so we're very similar yeah so you will be me at my age well that sounds like a brilliant advertisement I love that I've definitely when I was around your age started on a journey and I wasn't sure where I was going what I wanted I'm still going Tell me Because I feel like I just read the new Miranda July book All Fours And it blew my mind Say that again I don't know that book She's written a book called All Fours Miranda July And I read it and it blew my mind because I felt like it was a kind of weird surreal interpretation Of exactly where I'm at in my life and if anybody is watching hasn't read it should he's in their like early 40s and is you know a creative minded person or rejects societal norms or whatever like it's so it's really made me excited about the future because I do have this feeling to sort of be beginning again but like I have this feeling that now I'm having another lie and I've started it and that's scary and all those things but what I love about the person I am today that wasn't when I was 21 starting adulthood is that I know what I like I know how to say no to things I don't like and And I'm really kind of empowered by it.

35:32Like, I feel sexier than I ever was. I feel like, you know, more silly. I feel more immature almost. But then I've got all the important practical things covered in a really mature way. Like, you know, the house is in order. The kids are dropped at the right time. They're albeit a bit late sometimes. but like yeah I you know I feel that's all taken care of but now it's the beginning of a new life what were you like um in terms of style and when when you had babies I totally disappeared into what I thought a responsible mother should look like what were you like I I can't look at photos of myself when my kids were little I am literally I don't recognize myself I'm so straight yeah yeah no I've I kept the clothes but I maybe should have gone straighter in maternity wear because it's really awful what when you were pregnant yeah that's so funny there's awful pap shots of me that I just I can't believe it online because they use those lenses anyway that are just unforgiving but I look like the size of a house and I'm wearing like a marvellous tax bright yellow t-shirt and there's one where it's just like it's all it's like I was refusing to go down that but in doing so I just look crazy because it's not I love that though it's not dressing for the body my daughter always says to me because she's seen the photographs obviously her childhood is so well documented.

37:13Yeah. And she's always like, when I have kids, don't let me dress like that. I said, I know, I don't know. What was it like? It just really stayed? No, do you know, I mean, this is how I like to dress. I like to dress. I'm a peacock. Yeah. So I like getting up in the morning and thinking I want to. Putting on a good outfit. And it starts with my underwear. I wear banging underwear. Me too. Do you? Yeah, always, because I worked in Asia for Vox Her for three years. Of course you did. So I can't... I knew you then. It's all matching. Yes, okay. You knew me as a shop assistant. Yeah, I came in. I remember you.

37:47Brilliant. Yeah. That's such a girl. But I always loved Dajon Provocateur. Yeah. But I'm... Are you wearing Banging Underwear today? Yeah. Well done. I've got an AP set on now. Have you? What colour? It is black, but it's a lacy one. No, it's lacy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can't even remember. I don't even care if no one sees it. I think I might be wearing the same one but in the black. Purple. But you know what? It's not about who else sees it. No, it's about the way you feel. Yeah. And I get dressed from the bottom up. Underwear up. Yeah. Oh, my God. We're literally the same person. It's so important to how I feel about myself for the day.

38:28But when I had children, it was almost like… You bought a pair of packet pants. I did. Three packs. Cotton. Yeah. I had a five pack. White, beige, black. Five pack. over the belly button. Who were we? Me and my best friend actually jokingly say sometimes like to each other, don't go to the packet pants era. Yeah. You can't go back there. No. That's exactly what my daughter's saying to me. Because it was a state of mind. Yes. And my mum keeps buying me packet pants. But I do think they have their place. Like after a C-section. Okay. Bliss. Okay, yes. But that's necessity. Yeah, it was like literally you pull them on.

39:12One of my besties just had a C-section. And I was like, you throw these away as soon as you're back to normal. But this packet of pants, you're going to love. And she texted me afterwards and was like, these are heaven. I find the biggest size you could buy, size 20, 22, whatever, and you just put them on. It doesn't matter what size you are, but the best after a C-section. Yeah. Really important. I mean, I lost myself, I think. And I had three kids, two years apart and then three years apart. And I lost myself for quite a long time, like 10 years of just, and then I suddenly started thinking, hang on a minute, I'm, who am I?

39:55Yeah, that's what that's about. Because that's why it's the eye for identity. So say someone is watching this and they are a woman, they've kind of lost themselves, like we did a bit. They're stuck. Top five things that a woman could do to help her start again, to help her begin again. like you said touched on in the interview always say your feelings and like hopefully you'll be they'll be received and if they're not then move on yeah because it doesn't work my big one for me is because I felt quite miserable yesterday and I put on this massive red furry coat yes because I was like I always put this coat on when I'm feeling my worst and I look like Sesame Street character I've got a green fake for a coat that I put on you'll know I need a hug if I've got the green fur coat on.

40:51So I was like, just shove that on the red lips and you're like, fine. So I'd say put on your wall paint and don't let it slip because that's important. I would say don't be afraid to make huge changes because everything will always be okay. And initially when you make a big change, you do grieve what you lost inevitably, and that's part of the process but you will come back to something of joy of happiness or contentment again even if you think you've made a mistake because there's no point living life in a permanent state of regret you go I did this maybe it wasn't the right thing to do but I'm going to sit with it until I feel better and you will come back but change is always good I love even if it's not right yeah just keep changing until you get that but it's so important but I think you can get a bit I can get a bit addicted to change I'm like no switch again switch they're like how many switches um what else I was wondering about being yourself like how do you find out because I'm thinking about people who are like who am I okay I feel like the who am I question is potentially damaging because you're everyone and everything great so I just think it's really sort of um maybe a bit restrictive to put yourself under that pressure to wonder who you are all the time and it's okay to accept that you're all of those things yeah and some I've had people weaponize like um who they thought I was against me before and say But you're this and you said you were this.

42:41And I said, yes, that day I felt like that. I changed my mind. But today I'm not that. And that's okay. Like you've got to accept the whole person. And I think we're all so kind of indoctrinated to feeling that we have to know who we are and none of us know. And I don't think we should either because it comes out unconsciously. But then you can't really change if you sort of go, I'm this person. Yeah, then you're stuck. So we love change. so we can be whoever we want, just change hourly. And then I think we could end on lingerie. Yeah, dressed from the bottom of the outfit out. So we wear nice lingerie, don't we?

43:21Every day. Just to feel good. Yeah, for ourselves. For ourselves, yeah. Paloma, I just... I adore you. I've loved talking to you. You too. Can I also just please stress to anybody that is watching or listening, please get this book. It will change your life. And it goes with my album. It's the same. They're like a pairing. And get the album. I don't know why I'm holding this. The Invisible Glorification of Sadness. Download the album. Honest to God, the two together, it's very, very powerful. Thank you. You are inspirational. And thank you for sharing your experiences because I know you're changing lives.

43:58If you do anything today, please go and buy that book. go and buy MILF and listen to this album because it is so gut-wrenching and you have to listen to it chronologically and really get into the lyrics. I don't understand why Paloma Faith isn't kind of a stadium-selling artist. She has an extraordinary voice, but not only that, she makes you feel. This is her rawest of albums and she's powerful. Please download it.