Patsy Kensit on Being a Child Star, 90’s Icon & Living With Grief

27:48Davina McCall:Yeah. And how mad it was back then that, like, there was no... I was trying to explain to my kids the other day that, like, nobody asked for an ID. No! Back then. Like, we were never ID'd ever. If you were a girl, you were in. That was it. And you had somewhat of a decent outfit on. Yeah. I went with school friends one Saturday and they would only let three of us in and not the other two. And of course we're like, bye. I remember walking up those steps into the Wag Club and then it being like Top of the Pops. It was just madness over here. Spandau Ballet, Haircut 100. And it was just fun and naughty and people would snog each other and have this, I don't know that, I feel actually for this generation because we had such freedom.

28:40It truly was a glorious time. And the 80s and the 90s were just, the 90s particularly, we got away with a lot. You would never be able to do that now.

28:51Davina McCall:And I also think that there were so many venues and clubs to go to and there just aren't any spaces to congregate at anymore. I mean, I know I sound a bit sort of depressing and old, but I just feel like dancing and coming together in a nightclub, all of us, it was magical. It was magical. And it was spiritual at times. Like we would, it was euphoric. Yeah, it was. Now, Chris Sullivan used to run. Yeah, Chris and Ollie. Ollie was on the door. and I seem to remember the casting people somebody from Absolute Beginners I'm sure they came to the WAG they did because I went to be in it with Kim Sion oh god Kim's amazing in the beatnik section like the cafe beatnik thing in Absolute Beginners so that was quite funny we all got shipped off in a coach a coach this is it and then at lunchtime at the pub that they have at Shepparton Studios I'm not sure whether they still have the pub for lunchtime going into the pub was like going to the wag club there because it was all these things.

30:01I knew everyone and it was fantastic. And that was, again, a very, has become a real art house classic, the film now, because it did very well at the box office, but it was just panned, it was panned critically and then went to America. They should have opened it in the States first, I think. And it was the year that they released it there. It was in the top 10 best films in the LA Times.

30:33Davina McCall:Oh, it was so iconic. So iconic. I mean, David Bowie. I mean, what was he like? Well, what he did for all of us. Oh, I know. It changed my life. Yeah, me too. At 14, hunky-dory, that album was just on constant repeat. and I was just so stupid and 16 and, you know, hadn't had a real proper boyfriend yet and I thought, oh, we're going to meet and he's going to fall in love with me and we're going to just, you know, go off on his Vespa together and it was like a royal line-up at work because everyone was shaking his hand, meeting him and I shook his hand and tried to make eye contact and he was very sweet.

31:14He said, very nice to meet you and he just moved on and I was crushed. I just thought oh my god that's it and then a few months later I was sitting in makeup and the makeup artist had just run to the toilet and David walked past and the door was open he sort of backed up and looked at me and he said oh and he came in and I was too in order to say anything and he just picked up this hair brush and my hair was very long then and not grey like it is today I've got fabulous roots

31:46Davina McCall:Actually, can I just say something? We hadn't noticed. You've just highlighted. I embrace these roots. Embrace it. Embracing them. That's, you know, I'm here happily embracing my roots. So David popped in and he picked up this hairbrush and sort of brushed my hair for what seemed, I mean, it was the most erotic experience of my life. David Bowie walked into the dressing room. The makeup room. The makeup room. Okay, makeup room. He picked up a hairbrush and brushed my hair. And stood there and brushed it out and talked to you? No. I did nothing. I know. It's just delicious. That is ridiculously sexy.

32:22Davina McCall:Thank you. I think so. Some people have heard that story and think, oh, that's weird. No, no, no. That is, obviously my husband is my hairstylist. Yes, of course. You know that intimacy. The head is an erogenous zone. Yeah. Like it is, wow. And such an intimate thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So that was made my life. You didn't skip off into the sunset. We didn't. But he brushed your hair. He brushed my hair. Come on. Yeah, like, come on. We were practically married in that union. Quite funny because you were starring in that movie with lots of people that we knew. We knew, we knew. Yeah. And were friends.

33:05Davina McCall:And you said that you were actually married to your first husband at that point. Not yet. No, it was after. I was just going to say, I didn't realise you were married that early. No, because I hadn't, like I said, I hadn't really been in a big relationship. So you were 16 in that one? I was 16, yeah. But 20 when you married Dan? I was doing a film in Scarborough with Anthony Hopkins, A Chorus of Disapproval, Anthony Hopkins, and... I mean, my God, you've just worked with them all. Jeremy Irons, yeah, everyone. And we were all in Scarborough. So this was after Absolute Beginners. I was around 18 when I married Dan.

33:43I was around 18. Yeah, 18. I remember that. Yeah. He came up to Scarborough to visit and they asked me to marry him. And, you know, we did. Michael Winner, the director, like completely bawled me out about it. He said, oh, ridiculous. You married Patsy and da, da, da, da. And I said, well, I'm going to do it. He said, well, then happiness to you both. And I'm so happy and wonderful and, you know, muzzled off. and that was Michael. He was just, I really liked him. Some people found him an acquired taste but I thought he was great and we had such a laugh on that film. Yeah, and Dan and I got married in Scarborough.

34:20Davina McCall:You got married in Scarborough? In Scarborough, yep. So as you know, I've been trying out Monzo sponsors of this podcast and because I've just been to a festival, whoop, whoop, I thought I'd tell you what it does abroad. Now, you know that thing where you used to have to call the bank before you flew just to tell them that you were leaving the country? Not anymore. It's so good with Monzo. You just start paying when you get there. There are no fees and it works. And when you spend you can see exactly what it costs straight away in pounds, which means less trying to work out exchange rates in your head and more getting on with the holiday.

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35:03Davina McCall:And if you find it, two minutes later, under your beach towel all along, you just tap to unfreeze it. And when you're home, Monzo puts everything you spent on the trip together in one trip report. So download Monzo before your next trip and pay anywhere in any currency. Fee free. MasterCards exchange rate applies. Monzo current accounts are for UK residents aged 16 plus. T's and C's apply. Right. Now, where is my passport? I need to put it away. This segment was sponsored by Garnier. Oh my God! Oh, lady over there. Hi. What's your name? Shoshanna. Shoshanna. We've got a colleague at work, Emma, who wants to have her hair coloured.

35:45Davina McCall:I'm trying to find somebody to come with me to come and colour her hair with some Garnier Nutrice at work. Yeah, why not? Would you really? Follow me. Follow me. So this is the Begin Again Studio. And this is Emma! Shoshanna seemed really confident. She has coloured her friend's hair and stuff before. You've got to put this one into here and shake to activate the colour. Shake it like a Polaroid picture.

36:10Davina McCall:Already the colour's lovely. The shade that we are doing on Emma is Mocha Brown, which is my shade. Mine. I own this. I don't. There are actually 35 shades to choose from. It's got fruit oils in it. They are what nourishes it. Emma, you're very lucky. You have no grey hairs. but Garnier Nutrice, the permanent colour's got 100 % grey coverage. I can vouch for that. That is it. Oh wow, okay. Easier to do it yourself, do you see what you mean? Is that easier than you thought? Very easy. Just like putting like hair oil in. Yeah. It's like so easy. Time to go. Go Emma! Oh my god, it looks great! Oh my god, I'm not being funny, you've done a great job!

36:54Davina McCall:Look at that, look at that! Can we just discuss the shine? That's amazing. Are you pleased with me? Do you like it? Love, love, love, love, love. How confident are you now out of ten? Oh, ten out of ten. That was a lot simpler than I thought. I'm so pleased. We did a thing. Thank you for trusting us. Yeah, thank you. You guys have done amazing. And thank you, Garnier, and you, Therese. Love you. Love you.

37:29Davina McCall:Even if your teen's been vaccinated in the past, they could still be missing meningitis vaccinations. Ask your teen's doctor or visit meningitis.com today. Sponsored by GSK. I mean, he, Dan, was obviously famous for being in Big Audio Dynamite, which was such a cool band. They were. Don, that's obviously. Don, I mean, I love Don so much. And Don looks the same. Yes. He's just not changed. And he's just fab. He's just fabulous. And obviously Mick from The Clash. Mick Jones. Mick Jones. Yes, yes. He was amazing. He was amazing. And totally iconic. I mean, Big Radio Dynamite was so cool. They were very cool.

38:11They were very cool. And then it sort of took me under their wing and we'd always go around to Joe Stromer's house. And he was, again, I was in awe. I was such a huge Clash fan. Yeah, me too. Yeah, they were brilliant. But VAD were great. And Dan was so beautiful. But you and Dan, you were a great couple.

38:32Davina McCall:I mean, from the outside. What was that like? Because it seemed very sweet and caring and loving. Was it a good relationship? It was a good relationship. Yeah. And it sort of, it hit at a time when people were very heavily into going to raves and doing that stuff. And, you know, I wasn't. I'd kind of done all of that. I had to work. And so it just became sort of living very differently. Not suggesting he was doing anything inappropriate or what, but he was very into that, the scene and the music side of it. And we just, you know, I'd be at home and he was meant to be on tour and then I'd get people phoning me up on a Saturday going, oh, so Dan was in, I saw Dan last night and I was like, why is he meant to be in Coventry doing a show?

39:31What was he doing at your club? And so that kind of happened a few times and I think that, and we were so young. You were so young. We were babies.

39:40Davina McCall:We should have just lived together. Why did you think that marriage was important to you? Because I was a hopeless romantic. And that's sort of been something that's carried through all my relationships. And, you know, I just seem to have married all my boyfriends. That's really the truth. I mean, I wish I'd played the field and been taken advantage of my youth and the situations I found myself in. But I just always chose to be married. I was never happier than being married to someone. I mean, it is different being married. I'm thinking about your mum and your dad. Yes. and how even though your dad was a complicated man and you really loved him.

40:38Davina McCall:Yes. When you were a little girl. Yeah, of course. Before you went inside for a while. And your mum, you could see, you understood why your mum saw in him. Yes, of course. So when they were together, maybe that kind of was an influence for you. Do you think so? Was it a good example of a marriage? Or, you know, I think I've become, like I said, at 14 when he'd been away for seven years. And my brother and I were sworn to secrecy about this. So nobody on our street, we'd actually moved to the local council estate by that point. And, you know, it was very everyone, you know, everyone's business and quite, it was this sort of close, like Brookside close a little bit.

41:27Everybody knew. Everyone knew everything. So my brother and I had to pretend for seven years that, oh, yes, our dad's in South Africa. That's what we had to maintain. And because my mum said, you can't, this is what you say, you say this at school. And they were like, so is your dad going to come? He's in South Africa. It was just that. And then, oh, he's back from South Africa.

41:52Davina McCall:So it's just restrictive that for a kid, like to have to lie about something. To have secrets like that. Yeah, it's big. They weigh very heavy on a young person's soul. And like I said, I would do anything to protect my mum, to help her, to literally anything for her. And so I just felt like, and she was so beautiful. I looked like my dad. My mum was just this, you know, violet eyes and it's beautiful skin and, you know, very Irish, real Irish beauty. and I always thought she could have had a much better life. I didn't, you know, but she did love him very deeply and we'd be away on jobs and some of the other chaperones or kids or whatever would be carrying on with crew members and all this stuff.

42:44My mother was never like that. She really wasn't. Wow. And when he died and we went to the hospital to see the body and we walked in together and I just remember going, oh Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim and sort of stroking his face and I really saw love yeah it was very sweet it was very sweet, very sad

43:12Davina McCall:but it also it also showed you that it was possible you know, against all odds it was a very complicated relationship it made me feel I think there are so many couples who get together they're in love and then they stay for their kids or whatever they don't really love each other anymore and the kids can feel it but for you your mum loved your dad till his dying breath it's very rare and I think it was also it was a great example to me of a partnership and a patient woman, she was very patient and it was good for me to see that that they really had something together. Very, very sad. You split up from Dan and you find another musician, the legendary Jim Kerr.

44:11Davina McCall:And such a legend. We met when Dan and I had stood up long before this. I was doing a film with Terrence Stamp in Madrid. Talk about Terrence Stamp. God rest his soul. God rest his soul. Can I just say, I just want to know, what was he like? Amazing. Was he? He was amazing. We had little likes for each other. He was so hot. So beautiful. And classy. So classy. And I used to really shock him because I'd come onto set with my trainers on and up my high heels. And he used to call me Monkey because I was born in the year of the monkey. He said, and he said, Monkey, you can't, you come in in your full costume.

44:58And he was just, every moment of Terence's life was a great picture. And he's a great storyteller. His books, I don't know if you've read any of them. No. Oh, my God. Tell me about his books. The Stamp Collection. And it's just unbelievable. I loved particularly the one, the book that really focused on the 60s and Judy Christie and all of those wonderful golden era. era actors but he was so sweet because my mum was with me of course again and she was telling him because Terence was way ahead of his time about health and what he ate. Oh really? Yeah he was he was utterly brilliant and I found out after I found these letters after we finished the movie he continued to write to my mum and would say you know this is what you know you should try this and you should try that and he did that just as a caring act just as a caring act and he wrote beautiful letters I mean it was just you know handwritten with that lovely just flowing beautiful words that coming out of the page at you and he wrote to your mum he wrote to You know, you only get one.

46:24But she just really did. She had a thing. She had something. And so, but Terrence and I, you know, had a little flirtation. And that was wonderful. And then to come to the end of that film and we're shooting in the Palace Hotel in Madrid, which is so beautiful. And we're shooting in the corridor and they're trying to get the shot. And all we can hear is this very angry Scottish voice down the corridor. going I need to get to work I can't I've got a car I need to get excuse me when you guys are in the way yeah you're in the way um and so they were like okay hold the roll and this person came walking down the corridor in very tight trousers love the way that that is like the thing you notice the very tight trousers and sort of walking down and quite rightly because film when you're filming you do tend to expect the world to stop for everyone else as well and you You know, you have to be accommodating.

47:22So they let him through and all of a sudden he wasn't very busy. And he went, oh, hello. I was sort of standing there. And Terrence sort of, I think, sort of rolled his eyes and walked off. And so we had a little chat and then suddenly he wasn't busy and then suddenly he did have to go. And I thought that was always a nice man. And then at the end of the day, the second AD came to me and they said, oh, Jim Kerr left you this note. And so he wrote this note to me saying, just so nice to meet you, whatever, listen to that. And listen, if you ever come to Scotland, let me show you the mountains. Oh.

48:10And he was just so sweet. We had a lovely time together. And he's a good guy. Is that what's making you emotional? Well, just things like that. I'm sentiment because of everything, your kids growing up and moving on, going through all of that stuff and having to be, whenever they call, so strong. Because I know from experience, having a mother that I had to worry about all the time has had a massive effect on me.

48:46Davina McCall:You don't want to be a trouble to your kids. I don't know. You've had to experience that with your mum. Yeah, exactly. And so what Jim did, because he loved my mum as well. I mean, he was like straight away, oh, we need to get Margie on the payroll. And I was already sort of supporting her and making a very good living at the time. But he was just so sweet. and then two days before she died, I was in denial. I thought she was going to come through it. Well, she's done it so many times. So many times. And he said, no, I want to go and see your mum now. I said, well, no, I'm not going tonight to see her because I go every morning.

49:30And I had, she was so thin and tiny and she was on this ward and I used to call it the last post because every time you got there, a bed was empty. She wouldn't eat. So I got a chef from Leeds to do like tiny little fish pies for her and just mouthful. Something that she could. She could sort of, and she couldn't even eat that. But anyway, I said, well, I'm going on the way to work. So I would get up at four. The car would pick me up, take me via the hospital, which was on Mortimer Street. It's not there anymore, that big, the big Victorian kind of, it's quite creepy, that hospital. and I'd go and see my mum then, go to film all day and then go and see her on the way back home.

50:16And Jim was just adamant. He said, I want to go and see her now. Did he have a feeling, do you think? Yeah, 100%. And he went and he was like, you know, I think he promised my mum a lot of things, which, you know, he tried his best to do that. I think I was in such deep depression for so many years for him to have handled it. But then two days later, I'd gone in to see her on the way to work. And she was bringing up blood. And it was just so hard to look at. And I said, I'm going to be back on my way home. And I went to work. And I was in makeup. And I got a call. And they just said, she's gone.

51:04And I just went, no, no, no, no, no. and we were filming in St. Paul's all around that area. It was a wartime period drama. I can't remember the name of it. But James Fox, who I'd worked with on Absolute Beginners, I played his wife on that and I was playing his niece on this show and we always used to say, I'm going to be your mother eventually. We've had every kind of relationship possible on screen. And anyway, James took me out and there's a beautiful blue sky and he just sat with me and of course they said well patsy look we can can release you but we've only got this location for you know it's costing so much if we could just shoot out we'll bring the scenes together and if you can shoot them out and of course i said yeah i could i completely understand and so i just was sitting in this sort of courtyard looking up at the sky and he came and he just sat next to me and then until i left the production that day he didn't leave my side and he didn't say anything.

52:07There were no words. And that was probably one of the most intimate moments I've had with a human being. You know, he just was by my side and then I went straight to the hospital and I remember walking out of the hospital onto Mortimer Street and all these people are like pushing you to get by and I was like, everything was in slow motion. Yes. And I was just thinking, You have no idea. Just up at that window, there are people that are just going by the hour and you're out here living and looking miserable or all of that stuff. And that's something that I just thought you have no idea. You have no idea.

52:53Davina McCall:When I came out of hospital and got onto the tube the first time and everybody looked unhappy or in their own world, And they've all got shit going on, right? We all have shit going on. But I wanted to keep going. Yes. You're alive. You're alive. Yeah, you're alive. Yeah. So I understand exactly what you're saying. Yes. It's so strange when you've been around a death, somebody leaving this earth forever. Yeah. And then you go and see it. And it's just... Can't, no, can't comprehend. I mean, you know, in a few months I probably was back to not being in that normal life and not being in that space of being having it being so insightful.

53:37But I do feel that karmically this is I believe in reincarnation. I really do. But I think that I don't think there's much more I could cram in. I, you know, I hope that I've lived a really full life and I've had so many blessings. I mean, I'm sitting here, you know, obviously still grieving terribly over things. And people probably think, oh, just get over yourself.

54:08Davina McCall:I think anybody will be thinking that. Well, I think people, most people are kind. Yeah. And they'll get it. Yeah. And, you know, you, I think if you're a good person, then good things can happen for you. And I've seen that. I mean, I've manifested a life that was never on the cards for me. I mean, it was, you know, my aspirations were working on the pick and mix in Wards. They really were. It was my favorite place to go as a child. And so, yeah, I loved it. But it's been great. It's been great. And I've loved and I've lived. And I've had the blessing of having two wonderful children. and they drive me nuts.

54:59I mean, I won't lie. Their job. It's their job. It's their job. And they're men now. You know, they've got their own lives. How old are they now? Just 33?

55:07Davina McCall:Because it's kind of crazy, that, right? And 26. And, I mean, I had Lennon, I had James very, very young. I was late 30. How old were you when you had James? James. I was, like, 20. It's incredible, that, isn't it? Yes. It's very, yes. And I was blessed with this angel, but I was kind of screwed because none of my friends had children. So I'd be going to the swing park, me and the baby, and he could barely lift his head at the time. And I was doing all of that stuff on my own and the sleep deprivation and all that stuff. But again, I wish I enjoyed those teeny tiny babies moments because I was always so scared that I'd hurt them or that they would get ill or all of this sort of panic.

56:02I wish I hadn't considered that then because it's such a precious time and it goes so fast.

56:10Davina McCall:Now that you look back and you've had that diagnosis of PTSD and the fear of losing your mum. for years and years and years, non-stop. Do you think that played a part in the fear around becoming a mother? Yeah. Like, you were so scared of losing your mum and then you've got a little baby to look after. It's like, you know, I know what happens when you really love something. Yes, exactly. That must have been so difficult. It was difficult. And because that first year of James' life, she was really in hospital all the time and I'd take the baby along with me and she'd be like, don't bring the baby in here with the germs and this and I'm like, no, but mummy wants to see his grand, you know, and she told her to hold him and she loved him so much.

57:00And that to me is something that I'm sad for my kids that they didn't have the experience of her as a grandmother because she was the most awesome mum. And I compare myself regularly to her and think, well, I could have hidden that a bit better from the kids maybe. She's a lot to live up to. A lot to live up to.

57:23Davina McCall:But your boys now? Well, they're living their best lives. Right. Can I just say that? Yeah. Do you know what's enabled them to do that? I don't. I'll cry. You. I hope that I've been a positive force for them you know I essentially was a single mum of what you did but you know the boys have great relationships with it and that's really important I know that because that's an important relationship the father being you know and encouraging that because a lot of women get very sort of angry and stuff and certainly while the kids were growing up it was always my my intention to you know have a great time and they always did they they loved going to to be with their dads and that was also something that filled me with joy because if they're if they're happy to go and they're not saying we don't leave you that's means that they've got confidence and that they also have great relationships with their fathers and that's something that I'm I'm I've encouraged and you should be proud of you know because like you said yes that isn't always the case and you've done a brilliant thing yeah thank you well done thank you you met am i right in saying you met liam on a plane yes um going up to glasgow fairly enough so what like what was it like oh my god it was such a long time ago um but i remember i was i had these little round glasses um that i was wearing all the time like John Lennon glasses.

59:01Davina McCall:I sort of remember that era. Yeah, exactly. So I think the first thing he said to me were all top bins. And I was so glad. I was really tempted to give them to him. And I thought, no, I'm not going to have got these in New York and I actually really quite like them. And then as the years went on, you know, he'd always come home with a new pair of sunglasses on that someone had given him. And I was so pleased. You weren't that girl. I wasn't that girl. so um but yeah that was it and then we just kept running into each other it was something that that happened and then it was you know it was quite sweet I mean it wasn't a sleazy coming together Jim and I were leading separate lives do I you know do I regret that yeah I look back now but then I wouldn't have had my youngest son and that's the blessing yes that came out of you you You know, there were some very tough times in that marriage.

59:57Davina McCall:I mean, I think also there was something about your relationship representing an era of British history where that's an enormous kind of pressure to put on. It's hard enough having a relationship anyway. Anyway. Both being famous is like extra hard. Yeah. But then representing an entire era and having to be a certain way. Yeah. You know, you had something to maintain. Yeah. For us, we needed you to do that. It was such a weird, it's like weird, it's too much. I think what I forgot in that time was how much I'd done before it. Yeah. And that was, and I lost that for a little bit. And what do you mean by that?

1:00:54Well, because that relationship became so big. So big. Yes. And it was bigger than me. Yes. And therefore, the pressure was huge. And so, yeah, of course, the Vanity Fair cover and all of that stuff is very, people love it. It was a very iconic time. I lost part of who I was going into that relationship. Somehow lost her. I remember Noel, who is lovely and divine, and I always tend to bump into him, and he's just always been lovely to me over the years. And I remember him taking me to one side and he said, why aren't you working? Because I was always off doing films and going to the States. and I remember saying because I'm too afraid to leave him on his own.

1:01:52And he was like, yeah, you should be doing more. And then, you know, it ran its course. But there were some fantastic times. Go on, tell me. We were very irresponsible and it was just, you know, So it was, I always say I had some very late nights in the 90s. Yeah, exactly. You can relate. So that was something that was going on. And then that's something I stepped out of very quickly because I was having a baby. Yes. You know, my lifestyle had to change dramatically. And it did.

1:02:35Davina McCall:Did you put yourself into treatment? I went to meetings. Meetings. Yeah. I did the same thing. Yeah. So I came off the street into a meeting and it was actually Pete Townsend who I phoned because my life was becoming unmanageable. Yes. And he said, listen, I'm going to hook you up with somebody and just go to a meeting. He said, just go and listen or whatever. And I went along with Fiona Golfer. Do you know Fiona? Yeah, really well. Yeah, I saw her the other day. She's amazing. She took me to my first meeting and she was fantastic. And it was fantastic. And I saw so many people that I knew in the rooms.

1:03:16Oh, you've been here. Oh, that's where you've been. Excuse me. It really helped me. I don't go to meetings. I mean, as someone that would say, no, I never touch drugs at all. I like a drink but I can't have one because the depression that I get the next day is just not worth it. So even if I don't know I think I'm allergic it's poison to me and some people can enjoy a drink and put a lot of pressure on you sometimes. You know well have one, have one and I just.

1:03:54Davina McCall:It's fascinating that. Isn't it? People don't like people that don't drink. That's so funny. And so, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say I haven't over the past few years had a drink only to very quickly realize why I stopped completely. So that was a blessing. How have you managed your depression? Because obviously the PTSD is, was it in a weird way quite a relief to get that diagnosis? Because it explained everything. It was glorious. Yeah. Because it's so funny. because it's like finally, because I was thinking, you know, God, am I bipolar and I've been, you know, am I ADHD?

1:04:42And I've had therapy over the years and that therapy helps. I'm not currently doing it. But it was fantastic to know that. And the things that I attributed to my sadness being around failing, creating the family and and sticking in it it wasn't about those relationships it was about stuff that happened when I was four years old I was never like abused physically in danger at work or around people I was never nothing inappropriate ever happened but what my my brain was doing and like I said I used to keep saying this thing I'm having a bad thought so I was trying to get it out then I had a deep understanding I think of the the pain catastrophizing catastrophizing exactly no but you know what it's been great it's it's been great and I wouldn't I wouldn't want it any other way and like I said you know I I do feel tired I do me too yeah exactly it's it's been a lot yeah like it's a big life 52 years yeah it's a big life it's a big life but it's um I don't know if it's relatable to anyone but I you know had my pensions and everything and I was very vigilant about all of that and then I entered into a corporate thing and I lost this is 10 years ago I lost everything lost my home I lost just everything and and so I'm having to start from scratch.

1:06:21I have been, I mean, these past 10 years, I've sort of... I didn't have that pattern. Yeah, no. It has been written about. It was hard. But I'm a survivor. Yeah, you are. I always have been. Yeah, you are. And you just take each day at a time. And I do that with regards to my work and the mammoth amount of scripts that I'm learning. I don't. I try to just keep it in the day, tomorrow. Who knows? Something brilliant that was after my first meeting that I ever spoke at and you say hello my name is MIM and I called Fiona after that meeting. I went I can't believe I was so open with people and to sort of give myself a label and all these crazy thoughts going on.

1:07:09And as a famous person that's frightening right? She went, it's no big deal. Get over yourself. It's like, you can say, she said, me, I'm a banana today. You're going to be an orange tomorrow. She said, just let it go. And that was freeing because it was years of trying to keep, have privacy and just having none.

1:07:33Davina McCall:Well, and also, I've got to say, I've never seen the fact that you went to an anonymous fellowship in the press anywhere. Yeah. No one sold a story on me. Yeah. I don't know if they have on you. No. It's been mentioned. Mentioned that I did. Because my mum sold a bloody story on me going to a meeting. Couldn't believe it. Out of like, I've been going to meetings for decades. No one said anything, but my mum did. Thanks a lot. Thanks, mum. It's a great place. Yeah. It's a safe place. It is. There is one other thing I would like to talk about, if it's okay. Right. And that is you had a hysterectomy.

1:08:13Davina McCall:Yeah. And that is quite a profound operation for a woman to have. Yeah. What happened there? So I was in my 40s. I kept getting these cysts in my stomach. They remove one. And then within a week, two had grown back. Oh, within a week. Jesus. And I knew I was in trouble when I got a call. I'd been to see my gynecologist again. And he was like, get to this address in Wimple Street at 5.45 tomorrow morning. We're fitting you in to see this specialist ultrasound person. And I knew that this isn't good. and I would get this, my belly would get so distended. By the end of the day, it was like I was pregnant.

1:09:05I mean, it was just this huge, you know, hard belly. So I went to this particular clinic and as I walked in, it was just seven or eight women that, you know, scarves on their heads. They weren't, you know, and that kind of, they had, their skin had that, a glow about you know people having um chemotherapy chemo they're just like beautiful birds to me and i uh i had i went in and had the the ultrasound and they're like well i'm sorry but you're gonna have to have an hysterectomy like yesterday so i was rushed into hospital and nothing was discussed past that operation and getting rid of my womb.

1:09:58No one said to me, you're going to wake up and you are going to be in full-blown menopause. That's bad to say. Yeah, you're going to have fog brain. People are going to think that you're suffering from some sort of mental illness. A mental of some sort. I mean, terrible things. And you lose yourself overnight, really, don't you? Well, my best friend, Ange, who has been for over 30 odd years, I came out and I called her and I was walking down Wimple Street and it was just like when I walked away from my mum at the hospital. or everything was in slow motion. And I remember her saying to me, oh, my God, you know, you live the life you live and just in one moment you're being told something like this and I'm sure that you can relate.

1:10:50I mean, I was fortunate. It wasn't cancer. The tumours were wild. They showed me, picked in massive and there were like teeth in little pockets and hair and all kinds of weird stuff.

1:11:04Davina McCall:Oh, my God. How strange. Mad is that? That's totally mad. But I'm interested to know when you were told, you know, your diagnosis, did it hit you like it? I'd been in it for a while. Right. But I had noticed, first of all, that I just didn't feel like me anymore. Yeah. I wasn't laughing. No. I was kind of flatlining. through life. And I thought, oh, is it because my life is so busy? Like, could have been the same as you. Is it because I've got, like, kids and a job and the pressure and the responsibility and so much weight and my inbox is full? But it feels like more than that. I can't, I've always been pick yourself up, dust yourself off.

1:11:50Davina McCall:Me too. You know, recalibrate, get going, make the call. I just couldn't do that anymore. And I just thought, I can't remember people's names. I'm doing a live TV show. Yeah. I've forgotten what you're called. I said your name two minutes ago. Yeah. We're live. Like, I'm not going to be able to work. No, but that's the thing. I would just, the brain fog. Did anybody tell you surgically, like... No, that we've got it out, that your womb's gone. Yeah. And... You're safe. Yeah, on you go. and then just to be in the crazy world of menopause. So how did you find out what it was? No, menopause. Yeah, that's how I found out.

1:12:37But how did you?

1:12:37Davina McCall:Like, who told you? Did you go to a doctor? I just knew. Yes. Because I didn't even know what perimenopause was. I didn't even know it was a thing. It sounds like some sort of sports shirt. Yes. It just doesn't sound like a thing. Or a new source at... Yeah, at the itzu. Yeah, exactly. But they said to me, go and see this hormone guy. And I did. And they would do, I was on kind of, you know, I'm on the estrogen two pumps a day. That's what I'm allowed now. But they put me on all kinds of different things to try and get the balance right. And so I was like, ooh, ooh, ooh. And then having to do TV stuff and just being, as the red light's going on, thinking, I don't know why I'm here.

1:13:23I don't know what I'm... And it was just that bad. And no one knew and accused me of being on something. Oh, God, that's awful. I didn't know that. Oh, yes. And it wouldn't happen today.

1:13:40Davina McCall:No, it wouldn't. Oh, Patsy, that must have felt horrible. It was devastating. Devastating. And I've always been so professional. to my actually to a fault because last year I broke my shoulder last year in three places it was just like cat food in there and I fell off a treadmill in the gym and it's oh I can't I'm doing physical therapy but so uh but I was meant to do this podcast and I was on all sorts of painkillers yeah and I didn't want to cancel and did it and shouldn't have done it and And my speech was very slurred. I'm very aware. I know how fastidious you are and how you would never want to do that, but you would never want to let anyone down.

1:14:29Davina McCall:But I didn't want to let anyone down because I'm professional. And then to be accused of that was just like heartbreaking. And this is this is like, you know, a year ago. and you know having to explain listen I'm actually you know this is awful what's going on they can't operate it's got to heal I'm trying to work out you know the least strength of poison I can put in myself to help the pain yes because obviously when you've been exactly been around that you don't want to take painkillers you don't oh Patsy But it was just like it's a knock at my professionalism and my work. And I used to do so many voiceovers.

1:15:19And, you know, those jobs aren't coming in anymore. So it does affect your career.

1:15:26Davina McCall:And that's rubbish. Well, I think what's good about us doing this today is it's a chance to set the record straight. Yes, exactly. And get your side of the story out there. give everybody a flavour of who you really are and you've done that in a brilliant way I hope so you've blown us away you are an icon and yeah you are I'm sorry but you're just going to have to take that I'm taking it but thank you for being part of the fabric of our lives and also thank you for being so iconic and being such a huge part of my life. I'm so pleased we're back together. Well, this is my point. And obviously, because I can talk to you about anything.

1:16:15And which is the gift that you give to people. And you always have.

1:16:19Davina McCall:Well, we're going to have that for the rest of our lives because I can talk to you about it. You can talk, exactly. And that's... But what I wanted, leaving this, I mean, it's been, this has been the best therapy that I've had ever. And, but I am a happy person. Yes. And I know that the moments in my life that make me emotional, I own every moment. And like I said, I'm a survivor and everything's been thrown at me. And I still find thanks every morning I get up, I say thank you. Gratitude. Gratitude, gratitude. When something awful happens, I say thank you. That's a lesson. that's I'm and so when you have those kind of tools and you're on top of it you can lead a very happy life so but but that's why as an interview yeah this begin again was very special yes very special because you have been through the ringer yeah and come out a very wise and brilliant woman and thank you for sharing that thank you for having me and your boys are very lucky you're a brilliant mum so thank you Patsy Kensett everyone you are a fucking legend so just in case you missed this episode here um if you love this episode I know you're gonna love that