Paul C Brunson: Should You Stay In A Marriage Without Sex? Never Ignore This Sign After An Argument!

0:0080 % of marriages today, they don't feel satisfied with their partner. 80 % oh my god now what does that mean the number one reason for separation is not infidelity it's not poor communication you know what it is it's you're with the wrong partner you meet someone the flame is really strong right and it's burning hot and you're like hot and passionate and it's all new and everything but towards the end of a relationship you just go and it's gone how can you revitalize a stagnant relationship? There's a couple places. One, I'm always going to say this, is who you choose as a partner is one of the most important decisions of your life.

0:40So when I see people break away from that relationship, typically I'm happy. What I'm really sad about are those that stay. It's one thing to be alone, but it's another thing to be in a relationship. and lonely. There are more people in the 50 plus dating market than ever before. And they're entering relationships that are much stronger. If you are 50 plus single sexy out here, I'm like, okay, yes, you go get yours now. You've done it. How did you do it? To have love, you need to have three components. One is intimacy. Two is passion. And three is... Ah, yes. Paul Brunson, so lovely to have you here.

1:20We're going to be talking relationships. and discussing how to navigate them in midlife, which I think is a very busy time in terms of relationships. But I really wanted to kick off by asking you, say a couple have been together for 20 years, like they've just become passing ships in the night. They don't work together. They've got kids. Their kids are slightly growing up. And they're kind of dreading empty nest. How can you revitalise a sort of stagnant relationship? And first, and this is going to sound counter to everything I stand for, right? But first is you should evaluate, are you even in the right one?

2:01The right one. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I believe that the number one reason for separation is not infidelity. It's not poor communication. It's not anything. You know what it is? It's you're with the wrong partner. And not even did you select the wrong partner, but you allowed yourself to be selected. And this is something that I believe a disproportionate amount of women have done. You should assess, are you even in the right relationship? Is this the right partner for you? And a great way to determine if you're in a relationship with someone who is the right one for you, are they making any effort to better themselves and the relationship?

2:43Yes. This is very important because if you're with a partner who says, you know what, therapies, no, no, no, I don't need that. Coaching, no, no, no, I don't need that. Reading a book with you on our relationship, I don't need that. If someone believes as if they have no desire to grow, especially for themselves or for you, that is someone who you can't be in a relationship with. I always would say to my kids or my friends, do you like yourself with that person? If you are making that effort to change or to adapt to that person, but you've adapted yourself to a point where you don't recognize yourself anymore, then again, maybe that's not the right person for you because you can't be yourself.

3:29No, no, no. If let's say you're in a relationship with that person and you decide, let's still try to make it work, it will never reach the heights of what it could be. And that means that you then are taking away from your own life. When we're in a partnership with someone who we can have a close emotional connection with, what that means is that we live longer. It means that we're healthier. It means that we're happier. There are studies that show that we make more money as a result of that. When you're in a relationship with a strong partner, you get nothing but upside, opposed to a partner who's going to create more stress for you.

4:08You get every benefit in life. So that means to me that who you choose as a partner is one of the most important decisions of your life. Paula, I'm really interested in this because also I see nowadays people, men and women, come to the dating scene with a checklist that is impossible to tick off. You're not the one, shoes, or you're not the one, you were five minutes late. I mean, just really kind of ridiculous things where actually I think sometimes when you fall in love with someone, all of those little things that you would have looked at your checklist from five, ten years ago, none of them matter because you love the core of someone, but you're not going to know that until you meet them and spend some time with them.

5:00What do people with the big checklist do? In the matchmaking agency, what I noticed is that there were certain people who would come in with literally, Davina, like 150 items on their checklist. And things like good feet, like toenails need to be trimmed, like all of these little, these nuances. Now, I get it. Toenails trimmed is important. Yeah. But if they don't come with toenails trimmed, is that a deal breaker? But then there were others who would come with one or two items on the list. Like what would be the one or two items that you'd see? So one of my favorite clients ever, she was 76 years old.

5:39Oh, amazing. 76. Fantastic. She had lived life fully. And she said, Paul, I just want one thing. Go on. I want a man with one thing. You know what that was? What? I want him to be able to walk up to the third flight because that's where I lived. I just need him to walk up the stairs. And I thought, are you serious? That's it? Like, you don't care what he looks like, religion, ethnicity, nationality. What she was saying kind of tongue in cheek was. Active or able. Able. I want him to be able. Everything else I can work with. Yes. Typically in our 20s and 30s, we have a lower priority list because you're trying to work things out.

6:18As we go up to our 40s, kind of mid 40s, at this point, we begin to have the highest checklist. Right. The longest. The longest checklist. Okay. But then as we get older, the checklist goes down and down and down. Also, I think that there is a commonality among the checklist and well-being. What do you mean? Those of us who have the highest well-being have the lowest checklist. Those of us who have the lowest well-being have the highest checklist. So actually you see a high checklist or if you've got a high checklist, you need to look at yourself and do a bit of work on yourself. Absolutely. I think the other thing that people do in midlife often is stay together for the kids.

7:01Yes. It's not only one of the worst things you can do for yourself, but one of the worst things you can do for your children. Yeah. There are so many unhealthy rules that we have around parenting and children. So one is let's stay together for the kids. A part of that also is let's not argue in front of the kids. We can have our disagreements. Let's make sure that we close the door and then go ahead. Why is that so detrimental? It's so detrimental because the children don't understand how to have a resolution to a conflict. They don't understand. They are learning through their parents, what their parents do, what their parents say.

7:40They need to be able to observe a parent or two parents resolving the issue. This is very important. When you stay together for the kids, the assumption is that the kids don't realize that you're miserable. Yeah, but they know, don't they? Like they can see it. They can see it. Yeah. And you know what's worse? You know what's terrible? When you talk to many of those children, you know what they'll say? They'll say, I'm the reason why my parents are miserable because they're staying together for me. Right. So therefore I'm to blame. So the parents, what they're doing is actually backfiring. Staying together for the children is not the best strategy, not the best strategy at all.

8:22And I think as well, like as parents, if you can be an adult in the divorce and divorce together, but do it in as nice a possible way for the children. Yes. I think it's important that kids are part of the negotiation, you know, that they understand what it's going to be like going forwards. That even though you're apart, you're still together, united as mum and dad, but we're just going to be living apart to make it as painless as possible. This idea of people staying in a relationship for a very long time is an unhappy relationship, is a sad one. We talked about the kids. But the other thing I thought was interesting, I do a dating show and it's about second time rounders finding love.

9:06And when we're casting for that show, we find it quite easy to find women because women are more likely to leave and then stay single for two, three, four, 10, 15 years while they bring up kids. Men stay single, it seems, for about three minutes. Have you kind of looked into that or thought, like, why does that happen? Yeah, there are a couple of things going on there. One is if you look at society, we are still living in a patriarchy. What does that really mean when it comes to relationships? What does that really mean? What it means is that we still place a premium on men in the dating market.

9:49And as men get older. They have even moved. The good ones. Yeah, the good ones. As a matter of fact, you know, that reminds me, we had something called the matchmaker number, which is terrible, but it was the truth. And that was that typically when a woman would come in to the matchmaking agency, she would say, I want a man who is older than me. So my age or older. The man would say, I want a woman who is one half my age plus seven. Now, he wouldn't say that exactly, but that was the matchmaker number. So you think about that. So if you are a 50-year-old man. So it's hopeless. Yeah. But think about that.

10:34If you're a 50-year-old man, one half, 25, plus seven, 32. Right. Does a 50-year-old man want a 32-year-old woman? Definitely. On average. Yes. I mean, yes. I've seen that happen in my circle of friends. Yes. Yeah, yeah. How funny. Yeah. And the woman, like somebody maybe a year or two older. But she'll take up to 50, though. Let me tell you a secret. When I got divorced, I don't get approached by men very often because I'm famous. So I'm a bit scary. He can vouch. I'm not at all. Not at all. Not at all. But I am a little bit. But I got approached by maybe two or three people in the few months after I got divorced.

11:21And all of them, they ranged from 25 to 40 when I was 50. That's quite interesting. So nobody wants to marry you or be with you in a long-term relationship, which is kind of, I don't want to go and have sex everywhere, but that's what they want. They're thinking, whoa, older lady, you know, experience. But, you know, you have something else going for you, which is really good. You are incredibly youthful. So that's a very sexy trait. And it's not about wrinkles and stuff. I think it's an attitude. It is an attitude. It is how you show up. It is how you walk. It is how you talk. It is how you dress.

11:58Based on how I'm dressed right now, there are people saying, oh, my God, look at what this guy has on. I'll never listen to him. Where others are saying, look at how he's dressed. I will listen to him. Do you know, it's funny because there are things that I have started doing as I get older. And I was trying to come up with a list of things that I feel make me feel more youthful. One of them, I walk with purpose. Yes, you do. Always. like I walk like I'm going somewhere like even if I'm kind of meandering I think walk with purpose because it makes me feel like I'm on it I've got somewhere to go I know this sounds absolutely mad but my boyfriend was my boyfriend got his teeth done I've known him for 26 years I've known him for such a long time he got his teeth done he got braces you Americans you're so good at this stuff we're late to the game on this us Brits but getting my teeth done and everybody's like why are you doing that we're kind of shaming to people that want to improve themselves.

12:52Get in my teeth. The best thing I ever did. Self-love is also loving yourself enough to make an effort for yourself. Yes. And it begins to then, I think, speak to the seeking of not placing value in how extraordinary you are. Right? And I think this is key. It's like we all, each of us, and I fully believe this, we are extraordinary. Yes. Everyone. Everyone is extraordinary. I totally agree. Everyone is extraordinary. And when you really think about what does that mean? What does that mean? It means that you are extraordinary. You're not ordinary. It means there's no one that is like you. No one.

13:32And no one will ever be like you again. And there has never been anyone who's walked this earth who's been like Davina. So you are extraordinary. You're extraordinary. So as a result of that, think about all of you and just put a spotlight on it, opposed to taking it out, opposed to covering it up. Instead, put a spotlight on all of the pieces that make you you. That's a place that I love to see people move towards. And I think that's also part of why you are so loved is because I feel as if that's what you do. You say, this is who I am. I'm going to fully self-accept, which self-acceptance, by the way, is a key piece to high well-being.

14:21And self-acceptance, to me, is even more powerful than self-love. Because self-acceptance is saying, I know all the demons. Yes, warts and all. And I'm okay with it. I've learned from them. That's self-acceptance. Can I ask you something there? Like, what happens if someone has a demon? And what do you do when you can't quite get past something you've done? Are there bad people? Absolutely. David Buss wrote a phenomenal book called Bad Boys. And he looked at what is called the Dark Tetrad. Have you heard about these? No. Oh, all right. The Dark Tetrad, they are bad. These are the psychopaths. Right.

15:05The sadists, the narcissists, Machiavellians, right, who are purposely trying to manipulate. In a bad way. In a bad way, right? So there are bad people. And unfortunately, when you are a psychopath, when you are a narcissist, et cetera, there typically is no coming back from that. You are that forever. So it's like you have to manage that. But when you were that, those things, you typically are not empathetic. Would you be able to see it in yourself if you were as well? Because I feel like I know a couple of narcissists and they would never say they were a narcissist. They would never say it. Yeah, yeah.

15:49Because they're not able to step outside of themselves and feel empathy. So as a result, that person that you're talking about, he seems like he's self-aware. and he realizes, oh, my bad, I shouldn't have done this. And I feel remorseful for this, et cetera. And how many of us are good people that did a bad thing? Yeah, all of us. I don't think there's one person that's not done a bad thing. There's not one. There's not one person, right? You are a good person that exhibited bad behavior at a certain point. That is powerful. And you are not in this group over here. I think that's a great place to start.

16:30I really hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you can, give us a follow. So I spoke to a friend of mine the other day. She's menopausal. She lives in Berlin. She's a DJ. She's super cool. When she DJs, you've never seen anything more beautiful. She puts all feeling into it. Sometimes she'll cry playing a record. She's like unbelievably hot and attractive while she's doing that. She's been single for, I think she said, eight years. Okay. but she said people see me on stage but I'm not that person and I saw her and she she was like lovely but she sort of wasn't wearing any makeup and she was like wearing trainers and tracksuits and and I thought to myself in my head and I must have this conversation with her but I thought you are that person you you are that hot woman on there why don't you bring a little bit of her to your day life.

17:25Is that a right thing to do? Because I sometimes feel like if I say to somebody, get up in the morning as if you're having a date, but you're actually just having a date with yourself. Like, why don't you feel like that every day? Right. There's so many places I would go in terms of trying to figure out how to help her because she was my main client for 10 years, where most of my clients were super successful women who would show up one way at work and be looked upon as like a god basically right and then to walk out of work and feel like okay i'm not getting any attention invisible i'm invisible and i don't know why and so she sounds like that that's exactly how she feels there's so many you know places to go but but one key question that I would ask her is, well, what is she doing to engage with people?

18:22Because typically what I've found is that women and men in those positions, there's so much going on in the workplace that once they're out, they just want to disconnect. Yeah. Put on their slippers. Put on their slippers. Watch some telly. Right. Binge watch, right. Some Netflix or whatever, you know, and just eat ice cream out of the thing and just, just, right? Before they put on that mask and go back. And so that would be my question. It's like, what are you doing? The other part to that too, is it's so important to engage in places that were passionate, but in circles that are unfamiliar to us.

19:01Right. This is very important. Yes. Okay. So you think about the fact that she's a DJ, She's a creative genius. Yes, she really is. So creativity is a huge value for her. But I would say, you said she lives in Berlin, right? So what would happen if she would come to South London, where I live, go to Brixton, go to the Black Cultural Archives, and participate in a painting, you know, a painting class there? The reason why is you want to step out of the circles that you are used to and go to new circles. This is incredibly important. Of creative, of her kind of thing. Of similar values. Yes, yes, okay.

19:50Because she will be appreciated. She will feel the connection. But she will meet new people. You know, living in, I was born in New York, lived in Washington, D.C., now live in London. Massive cities. However, you talk to most people, they say, I see the same people every weekend. Why? Because we all live in these micro circles within larger circles, within larger circles, within larger circles. The key to meet new people, to add value and insight, and not just romance, but business opportunities and friendships, all of these things is you have to step out and you have to step to places where you are uncomfortable.

20:34I put myself in this category. One of the key reasons why my wife and I decided, consciously decided to move to London was we were like, we don't know anybody here. Like we know no one here. And as a result of coming here, we're going to be forced into new circles. We're going to be forced into novelty. And that novelty is going to spark all types of beautiful things in our lives. And also beautiful things in our relationship. because what keeps a relationship going is novelty. And when you have to experience something new with your partner, it's you and your partner taking on the new thing. You're learning new things, but you're also on the same team.

21:15Have you felt this way? As you get older, you become more unapologetic. Yes. Oh, my God. I mean, the world's got to brace themselves because the next 10 years are going to be very... Yeah, it's like this is how I feel, But I feel so happier. Yeah. You know? And it's not like just carefree. But you've done it. How did you do it? Because I think there will be lots of people going, I want to be like that. It takes time. It's one of these where right when I walked in, I was talking about this nose stud that I have. I have wanted this nose stud since 1999. You know what I mean? since watching Tupac.

22:01Like, that was my, I was like, Tupac's got that no stud. I love that. Then, you know, I graduated from college, get into investment banking, have to wear a suit. Oh, I have no stud. Oh, you can, oh, never you can have a no stud, never. And then I moved to the next job. Never you can have no stud. I start doing television. Oh, you can never do television with a no stud. No one, oh, no one's ever going to listen to you, Paul, with a no stud. It's like, no, you know what? I'm getting a freaking nosey. And I think a large part of that, and this is connecting, I think, to this conversation is being around a group of people who cheer for you.

22:40With or without the thing, they adore you. They cheer for you. Many of us are in circles and around people, and they only are. They keep you in the box. They're trying to keep you in the box, and they only like you for the thing or not the thing. So they're the ones saying, as a result of the no stud, we would never be able to. But this circle that I have over here, they're like, whatever, Paul, like do whatever. And that then allows you to tap into, well, what are the things that I truly do like and experiment with those things? So it's a journey to becoming your true self. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I think, says it best.

23:22And this is, in essence, what I'm saying around the people who support you is that, you know, it starts off with these basic needs of, okay, do we have food and shelter? And, you know, do we feel safe? If you can't have those things, you can't express yourself because you're not concerned. But then it moves into do you feel like you have connection and belonging and love and support? then once you have those things you can move to a higher place of being self-evolved and this is the place where i feel like that's where we're all trying to get we're all trying to get there we're all trying to get there uh and and interestingly maslow said that very few of us will get to that place but you can't just leapfrog to that no you have to move through the levels so you said something earlier about guys looking for somebody half their age plus seven and women looking for somebody older.

24:20How are we ever going to meet each other in our 50s, if that's the case? Our 40s, 40s, 50s, in midlife. Yeah. Well, one is that's the old, slowly going away. Has it gone away? No, but that's one. Yeah. That's one. Secondly, on the upside, is there are more people in the 50-plus dating market looking for partners than ever before, ever before. I mean, half of me is quite sad about that, but half of me is quite happy because for the 50 and 40 year olds, like, well done. Yes, yes. And the reason why I feel so happy, I'm more happy. Okay. Because, all right, I'm going to connect it to research. Yeah, yeah.

25:02So Eli Finkel out of New York has done some research around the satisfaction rate in relationships, in marriages. He found that 80 % of marriages today are not, they don't feel satisfied with their partner. 80 %? 80. Oh, my God. 80%. That's sad. 80%. Whereas 20 % feel as satisfied or more satisfied than ever. Now, what does that mean? And how do I relate that to being happy with the 50 plus market? So to me, that means, okay, the 20%, this is great. And they're probably so happy because they have so many tools today, so many great podcasts, et cetera, to listen to. This is good. The 80 % are not satisfied, but they're staying in the relationship anyway.

25:51So when I see people break away from that relationship, typically I'm happy. What I'm really sad about are those that stay. You know, it's one thing to be alone, but it's another thing to be in a relationship and still feel alone. That is just incredibly sad. So if you are 50 plus single sexy out here, I'm like, okay, yes, you go get yours now. You go get yours. And the beauty is you could get yours any way you wanted. You don't have to get married. You can have a committed relationship. You can choose to have a polyamorous relationship. You could choose to have whatever formation you want. But you now have the availability to do it.

26:40And because there are more 50 plus than ever before, the pool is larger. There's more tools now to connect. So from that standpoint, I'm optimistic about that. The other thing is when you look at the ages in which people are getting married, you still have the, I think, mid-30s is the number one age range for marriage. But number two is right around 50. So you have a lot of people who have reentered the dating market for whatever reason, empty nest, et cetera. And they're deciding and they're finding partners. and they're finding partners and they're entering relationships that are much stronger than any relationship they've ever had.

27:25And to me, that is beautiful. So I'm happy about those things. We're taking a quick break to talk about today's sponsor, Fiverr. Have you experienced the immediate panic when you're asked to create something on the computer, but you have absolutely no idea how to do it? For me, it's social media. But I have realized that I can rely on Fiverr. It's an online marketplace it's got talented freelancers who specialize in different areas from social media and graphic design to marketing website building and coding i don't know what that means but with fiverr i can leave it to the experts and focus on the stuff i do best so if you want to give fiverr a try and i think you should search fiverr.com or click the link in the description and use the code DAVINA at the checkout for 10 % off your first order.

28:13That's F-I-V-E-R-R dot com. And don't forget, the second art. I've got a little challenge for you. Think of one creative project you've always wanted to start. Okay, now let me tell you how you can bring that idea to life with our sponsor, Adobe Express. So it's a really quick and easy create anything app by Adobe. So this tool is designed to give you the confidence to turn those dreams, your dreams, into reality. I've even tried it myself. We've used it to brand this show. So I can actually genuinely say that it makes creating gorgeous graphics and social posts and professional presentations just so straightforward.

28:54With smart templates, I can get things done like in a few clicks. And there's an AI feature, which is like having a little creative genie with you. So whatever you're dreaming about, honestly, it's never too late to begin. So I dare you, sign up for Adobe Express for free and take that first step. The most transformative chapter of your life is waiting for you. There must be a percentage of people that are dissatisfied but would love to try and make it better. they still love that person but it's not the percentage of people we were talking about at the beginning who probably shouldn't be together these are people where I always talk about love like a pilot light you meet someone the flame is really strong right and it's burning hot and you're like hot and passionate and it's all new and everything and through life you know it can go down and go up and go down and go up but towards the end of a relationship it goes down really really low and it's very fragile and at some point one of you or maybe both of you do it at the same time but you just go and it's gone and it's literally like light goes out pilot light's gone it's gone yes but if it's still there and and you want to make you want to make it go like you want to make a go of it like what can what can you do to save your relationship you know that was a brilliant analogy i'm gonna have to use that if you use it you know like in this interview where you've gone quote quote like oprah said this blah blah said that like please go and davina mccall