Prue Leith: Leaving Bake Off & Falling In Love At 70

15:07Davina McCall:No. I thought I'd got to really like it because I'm quite chirpy anyway and so on.

15:12Prue Leith:You're not, are you?

15:17Davina McCall:You know I am. I know. Can I just tell you something? I'm just going to quickly blow smoke up your arse. Is that, honestly, every single woman that I talked to, I was going, I'm interviewing Poole Leith, they'd all be like, oh, my God, she makes, like, and I hope you don't mind me using the phrase, like getting older, okay. Like you are flying the flag. I look at you and I go, oh, it's going to be okay. Absolutely. Like you are so happy. Yes.

15:47Prue Leith:Now I want to just read you the dedication. We've got a lot of grandchildren between us, John and me. So it's two, for our grandchildren, Hugo, Harry, Malachi, Scarlet, Gabriel, Grace, Roman, Max, Alexander, Teddy and Bertie. Yeah. And the most important thing is, who need to know that getting old is not as gross as they think? You know, children think that old people are so gross.

16:16Davina McCall:Yes, yes. But you are giving not just children, but everybody hope for the future. And this is, I mean, I may as well just reference this now, because this is what this book actually is all about. It's like, how do you do it? Being old and learning to love it.

16:36Prue Leith:I didn't write it as a manual. I didn't set out to say, you know, this is the best way to get old or the only way to get old or something. But I just wrote about various aspects of age. There are lots of rants in it, but my main thing is the joys of old age and the hilarity. You know, things like, you know, I suppose it's a bit, a lot of people will think that I shouldn't laugh at people who are senile. But my mum was senile for 20 years. And to be honest, senility is fine for the person who's crackers. They're away with the fairies. They're as happy as Larry. It's the carers who have the whole time.

17:19Prue Leith:And I mean, we had hilarious moments with my mother. For example, she was vegetarian. She'd been vegetarian all her life, a long time since I was a child.

17:33Prue Leith:When she turned 80, my brothers and I took her out to lunch, to a restaurant we'd often been to because it had a separate vegetarian menu, but it also had steak and stuff because my brothers are great carnivores. I asked for the vegetarian menu and I gave it to my mum. She looked at me and she said, this is all vegetarian. So I said, yeah, Mum, you're vegetarian. She said, oh, greenies, sandal, lot, I have nothing to do with them. Terrible people. I don't want to. She'd forgotten she was vegetarian. Completely forgotten she was vegetarian. Just overnight she'd forgotten. She'd been eating veg the day before.

18:10Prue Leith:And so I said, you have been a vegetarian for 40 years. She said, absolute nonsense. Give me a steak. So she had a steak and enjoyed it.

18:19Davina McCall:Wow. Isn't that so funny? I'd like to talk a little bit about your upbringing because actually your parents were marvellously liberal in South Africa. At the time, apartheid was still happening in South Africa, but you grew up in a very – could you just tell me a little bit about your upbringing?

18:40Prue Leith:I grew up in a liberal English-speaking family.

18:47Prue Leith:So we were all taught that apartheid was wrong, but we all went along with it. I mean, it was the law. You couldn't marry a black man or go to invite. You couldn't have any physical contact, social contact or anything with black people. the only thing is you could employ them to dig your garden. And of course I had a wonderful nanny who is black called Susan and another one called Emma. And they were so loving and so fantastic. And when I realized how appalling a party it was, of course I'd always been told it was wrong. But what made me realize how wrong it was, it was one Christmas.

19:41Prue Leith:I said to Emma, you know, what are you giving your children for Christmas or something? And she said, well, I won't see my children at Christmas because I'm here with you. And she was fine about it. And then I said to mum, when does she get to go home? So she said, well, she gets, I mean, basically she got two weeks off a year and traveled a thousand miles to see her children. So she didn't see her children all year. Her children were brought up by her mother. And that was the norm. Because apartheid, especially once the Group Areas Act came into being, which meant that anybody of, they divided people by so-called, by tribal divisions.

20:32Prue Leith:So if you were in Zulu, you had to go live in KwaZulu, which is Natal. And if you were, as she was, Kauza, had to go live in the Eastern Cape, which was a thousand miles away from where we lived. We were in Johannesburg. It was unbelievably wicked. but it took me and then when I went to university I started to do Where did you go to university? Cape Town

20:59Davina McCall:In Cape Town

21:00Prue Leith:and so I joined the sort of protest movements for anti-apartheid and I remember being In fact that was amazing It was but you know we were all also having a good time you know

21:12Davina McCall:you think it's all That's what I mean there's something like there's when you're coming together for a fight for something It's a band of brothers Yes

21:21Prue Leith:It's a very powerful connection to have. Yes, it is. But there's also sort of social prestige and being with people who are the real protesters who are doing the real hard work and risking their lives. Lives, yeah. And anyhow, one day after a student parade where we'd had a sort of sub-faction of complaint going on, a lot of us were arrested. And I was rather pleased with this. I thought it would do my street cred a lot of good if I could spend a night in the jail because then I'd be socially more acceptable in the protestant society. Yeah, like you'd go up a run. I'd go up a run. Yeah. But the policeman interviewed me.

22:11Prue Leith:Honestly, he could tell in two seconds that I was just a hanger-on. Damn it. But you're not going to arrest me? So he did an arrest me, so I got pushed out into the street again. And I really, of course, if I'd known what South African jails are like, I'd probably have been very grateful. I mean, unbelievable. Unbelievable.

22:35Davina McCall:But where did you get your independent spirit from? Because then at, was it 19, you went off to France to go and learn French. I mean, that's a long way from South Africa.

22:51Prue Leith:Well, I think I was driven by what I was interested in. And I had already had a go at trying to be an... My mum was an actress and a very good one. And she had a theatre company and it was very successful. So she... I thought, oh, well, I'll do what my mum does because I love the theatre. But I turned out to be not really good at acting. And also I didn't enjoy it much. No. So I swapped to art school because I thought, well, then I'll be able to work in the theatre, which I love because I can be set designer. Yeah. And then the head of the art school stood behind me, Cape Town University, and said, what are you doing in my art school?

23:36Prue Leith:And I said, I'm trying to learn to draw. He said, I would give it up now if I was you. He said, you have no talent. which of course you can't say to children now. No. But I was quite grateful really because I'd have spent two years having a good time. And then I went and tried to do a philosophy and logic and French degree. And the only bit I really enjoyed was the French. So then I said to my father, I think I should go to France where I could learn French from French people rather than from Afrikaans people who didn't speak very well. And, yeah, I was about 18, I suppose. But I was longing to get out of South Africa.

24:21Prue Leith:All my heroes were Europeans or Americans, mostly pop, Elvis Presley and stuff like that. I was sure the bright lights were all in Rome or Paris or Athens or London, but they certainly weren't in Johannesburg or Cape Town. I thought we were in the sticks. And he thought, I think my parents would be good for me to go to France and I would learn French. Also, my dad was really good because although he was getting a little bit fed up with the fact that I kept leaving courses and not finishing anything, he was sort of waiting. And he was good with all of us like this. He waited for us to grow up and decide what we wanted to do rather than just expect children to know on day one that they're going to be an architect or they're going to be a lawyer.

25:16Prue Leith:How can kids possibly know? They have no experience. So I went to Paris. And, of course, while I was in France, I did get on with the French. But I also fell in love with food. I thought, you can't. Is that where you fell in love with food? You can't. Well, I mean, you can't not, right? No, you can't live in France for two years and not notice that they are obsessed with food and the food. And it's really important to everybody. It doesn't matter if you're a factory worker or captain of industry. When I was a student in Paris, I was queuing up at the self-service cafeteria and they had these encounters with refrigerated starters all on plates, little plates like that.

26:06Prue Leith:I walked along and I was behind a French guy and I saw that there was a plate of three radishes which were those French breakfast ones which have white ends and the leaves are still on. Yeah. So they were pretty fresh, three fresh radishes. And there was a little screw of salt in a bit of paper and a blob of butter. I said to the boy in front of me, that's not food. I thought it was sort of decoration you might use on something. So he said, it's delicious, just try it. And I said, no. And he said, buy one. So I got one and we sat together and he picked up my radish by the leaves. I scraped it through the butter, dipped it in the salt and shoved it in my mouth.

26:58Prue Leith:And I thought, God, that's delicious. And I thought that it really made me realise that food doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't even have to be cooked. It just has to be beautifully combined and very fresh.

27:11Davina McCall:I wanted to ask you about, you know, the business side. Back in those days, it was at a time when women were having a moment. You know, we were having a moment of, hang on a minute, equal rights, let's go out to the workplace. It was a really exciting time to be a woman. But what was it like as a woman becoming an entrepreneur and a chef?

27:39Prue Leith:Well, you know, I'm often asked this, but the truth is because I always worked for myself, I never had to deal with what young women still sometimes but obviously less have to deal with in kitchens which is that a lot of our top chefs after the war were French or German chefs and all the language of a kitchen is very military. You talk about a brigade. Yes, chef. We are. Yeah. and what the boss says goes. And all of that is really important in a kitchen. There has to be a hierarchy. Yeah, and there has to be instant obedience. But there does not have to be bullying and awful things. And I had really no idea about how awful it was because I'd never worked in a restaurant.

28:34Prue Leith:And when I had a cookery school and I wanted, By then I was getting to know lots of chefs and stuff, and I would ask them to give my students work experience or to employ them when they were qualified. And at first they just laughed and said, we don't have women in the kitchen. I remember Trompeto, the head chef of the Savoy, saying he'd never, ever have a woman in the kitchen. Wow. I said, why? Why not? What if she was the best chef in the world? and he said no I wouldn't have a woman in the kitchen she said they won't stay because they'll get married and so there's no point in hiring them and anyhow they'd distract the men and then you wouldn't get good work out of it but I said honestly that's nonsense he said well anyhow the men or they can't pick up a stock pot nobody can pick up a full stock pot you need two people to

29:36But he actually said, no, no, it's quite simple. Women are not meant to be in the kitchen.

29:43Prue Leith:They're meant to be at home in the kitchen. That's where they belong. In France, he said the mushroom growers won't let women into the mushroom sheds because they prevent the spores germinating. If they're having their period, they mustn't go in because they'll prevent spears. So I said, I won't have a woman in my kitchen because at a certain time of the month, she will curdle the mayonnaise. Oh my God, that's insane, isn't it? I mean, don't forget I've lived a very long time, so we're talking about 60 years ago. Yes, but it was difficult. It was difficult for women. And chefs actually believe women would curdle the mayonnaise when they had their periods.

30:32Prue Leith:I mean, that's... It's witchcraft.

30:34Davina McCall:That is utter witchcraft. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. I know it's only the second month of this year, but Michael and I are already working out where we're going to take our kids on holiday. And we have decided on Greece. We started mapping out dates with my team last week, and everyone was sharing their holiday plans for this year. Sarah told us about how she's going with her best friend to Comporta in Portugal. And what is so brilliant is that while she's away, she's actually going to host her home on Airbnb. Now, look, she's done it once before and she found it so easy. What is so clever about Airbnb is that you can make your home available for dates that suit you.

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32:44Davina McCall:meeting or I mean I know you'd known Rain your first husband since you were a young girl but obviously he was the husband of my mother's mom's best friend. When did you realize that you did he have feelings for you and make it clear for you or was it the other way Well,

33:10Prue Leith:we spent so much time together because he was – I was living in his – I mean this whole thing will sound so revolting to anybody with any sense and any moral backbone and all the rest of it. So I can't justify any of this because he was my mother's best friend and my mother's best friend was in loco parentis. She was my mother in England and the whole family had welcomed me in and her daughter was my best friend. We shared a bedroom together. We had shared a bedroom when we were seven at one point when we lived in England because we came backwards and forwards from South Africa. The families were as close as anything but my parents had known each other since they were very young.

33:58Prue Leith:And so for me, he was like a godfather and a surrogate father and all the rest of it. And then my father died. He was 54 and I was 21. That's young, isn't it? And I went and stayed with my mother back in South Africa until my dad died and then for about six months afterwards. So when I came back to England, I came back to live with the Krugers again, the Reigns family. and then and stay and share a bedroom with Angela again and and I don't know my mother always said it was because I was missing my father so much that I was honing and you know honing in on rain and maybe that there was something of that because he always was my mentor and he was the chairman of my company and he helped me with all the business side which I didn't know and he taught me an awful lot about business.

34:56Prue Leith:So there was all that.

34:57Davina McCall:So that was already happening, you were working together.

35:01Prue Leith:Yes, so I absolutely adored him and we played tennis together and Nan didn't play tennis and I did and she was at the theatre most evenings and I wasn't. And so I don't know how it happened really. I don't know at what point he must have thought, oh my God, this is not good. I'm falling in love with her or whatever.

35:29Davina McCall:Was it mutual? Like you both felt, yeah, you were careering towards each other. Yeah, yeah.

35:36Prue Leith:I mean, I do remember we were listening to some music and he just came over and kissed me. And, you know, I was 21 then. Anyway, so for 13 years because, frankly, I loved that family and his wife and all of them and I didn't want to hurt him or anybody. And I didn't want a husband. I was busy, busy, busy building my business. I wanted to – and it worked fine. I mean, we just didn't tell anybody. And if I was ever seen out with him, you know, having lunch or anything, it wouldn't have been surprising because we were friends anyway. And working together. And he was my chairman.

36:32Prue Leith:And he'd helped design my first house and my first kitchen and first little restaurant and he was my landlord when I opened my restaurant. So there was lots of reason to be together anyway. So what absolutely undid it has always happened in these stories. We had 13 years together in secret, and I think we could have gone on forever. I had built up, I mean, a lot of people thought I was gay because I just didn't ever have a boyfriend or frigid or something. And I didn't mind. I thought, well, that is whatever they think, it's fine.

37:13Davina McCall:And it was back in the time when women generally got married at 22, 23, wasn't it?

37:18Prue Leith:And there was, like, 35, 34, something, 34, not married. But when I turned 34, I suddenly, this hit me like a roller coaster. I thought, I want a baby. I wanted a baby. So I said to Ren, look, I really want a baby, but let's just have a baby. and I will just never tell anybody whose it is. It'll be a baby out of wedlock and never mind. But there were a few women now who were single women with children. And we'll have a baby, but we'll keep the baby secret. And he said, that's not fair on the baby. He said, he, she needs to know who her father is and so on. So he said, I think this is the moment we tell Nan.

38:06Prue Leith:And so he did. And so it was really horribly difficult at first because, of course, she was… She's devastated. Of course, she was gossiped. She felt betrayed and all the rest of it.

38:20Prue Leith:But she was an amazing woman. Was she? Finally, she said she made me come and see her. Let's have lunch together and talk about this. It's going to be the worst, worst date of my life, lunch with… But I went to see her and she said, she was amazing. She said, you know, when I met Rain, and she met Rain, she was 20 years older than him. So he had married a woman 20 years younger than him, older than him, and then he married a woman 20 years younger. You always used to say the third time, I'll get it right.

39:03Prue Leith:Anyway, he never got a chance at the third time. So she said to me, when I first met Rain, she and Rain were both working for my mother's theatre company. Because Nan was an actress too. and Rain was playing Henry Higgins and she was playing Eliza. Well, she was 20 years older than him playing something. My Fair Lady. My Fair Lady was also crazy because Henry Higgins should have been, you know, the ages should have been reversed. The other way around, yeah. It was wartime. You had to make do. You had to make good. So they fell in love when they were, and he was 24 and she had three little children and she had just lost her husband who was killed in the war.

39:56Prue Leith:And so he, 24-year-old, fell in love with a beautiful actress, quite a bit older than him, with three tiny children. Wow. And he just fell in love with the whole package. And so they married. And my mother tried to talk her out of it. She said, you know, Nan, it can't last. You know, when you are 70, he will still be a young man and you will be, you know, he'll leave you. He will. Men don't stay with women 20 years younger than men. And she said, Peggy, I don't care if I only have five years with him. It will be worth it. Wow. And so she repeated the story to me. She said, I know what it feels like.

40:48Prue Leith:And anyhow, she became very good friends again. She used to come and stay with us in the country. And my children, when they were little, were very confused. Oh, yes, I bet, because they grew up. Because they grew up with my mother and Nan. But it was all fine. And I remember one of my kids, I can't now remember one, which said because I always wore two wedding rings because I had had a curtain ring when I married Ray and I didn't have any ring. But I was very pregnant when I married him, so I married him two days before Daniel was born. Wow! And so we just went in to the jeweler and bought a second hand ring.

41:39Prue Leith:And then it got, it was much too tight because I think when you're, funnily enough, when you're pregnant, your fingers get thin. So then I couldn't wear it. And so at any end, we had to get a change. But meanwhile, I put a curtain ring on to fill it. So I had two rings. And so, and I remember one of my children saying, it was one of the rings, Nance, if you marry somebody, do you get the ring? No, you don't. Quite a good question though, isn't it? A good logical thought. You get the husband and the ring. But he was a big love. He was. He was. He was an amazing man.

42:21Davina McCall:I'd love to talk a little bit about you and Rain. You had decided that you wanted to have children, but at the same time you both decided to adopt.

42:31Prue Leith:Yes, we did. Rain didn't want any more children because he brought up three of Nan's. and he felt he'd done children. But he did see that I wanted the kids. It was obvious that I was going to have a baby. And so we decided we'd have one for me. And we both thought we shouldn't have an only child. So we thought we'd have two. And we'd adopt the other. And he had written a book about Thailand and a history of China. So he was very familiar with the Far East, and he knew there were millions of Far Eastern children who needed adopting. And at the time, there really were lots and lots. And Leda was one of the refugees from the Khmer Rouge killing fields, genocide.

43:18Prue Leith:And she was only a few weeks old when she was flown out. By the time we got her, she was 16 months old because she had a rather checkered. Western life because people keep wanting to adopt her and things would go wrong. They couldn't and so on. But you know the interesting thing is she is such a balanced and happy girl, woman. She's 52 now. Can you believe it? She's 52.

43:53Prue Leith:But I think it's because this is a very home philosophy but I really think it's true. people worry so much about attachment and so on. Yes, attachment's tremendously important, but little things babies want to attach. The only thing that will prevent them putting their arms around anyone or stretching out to anyone is if they've been frightened or hurt. And if they've never been anything but loved and all the various people who wanted to have Lida Her own mother, the foster carer who looked after her, was very good. The woman who then wanted to adopt her would have adopted her, but she died of pleural pneumonia.

44:40Prue Leith:And the fifth woman who wanted to have her was a French woman whose marriage fell apart. And she had a little child of the same age. and her husband was blaming her for bringing a new baby into a rocky marriage and he was claiming custody of the children on the grounds that she was irresponsible because she imported a new baby into a marriage which was rocky and it looked like he would win his case. So she needed to get rid of Leda quickly. But she loved her. I mean, all the time, my point is that Leda was never loved. She was never not loved. and then we picked her up.

45:23Davina McCall:And were you warned because obviously, you know, services, they don't want Lida to go to another family that's not going to be able to cope or have to change circumstances if she's been through so much already.

45:42Prue Leith:No, because Lida had not done any of this in England. The first time she came to England was when she was going to be adopted by the woman who died. I don't know how they got through. It was a private adoption, so it would have been all right. She was in Paris staying with this other woman who was friends of his first wife who died, the wife who died, when we heard about her. And she wanted to get rid of her because there was danger of losing her own children. But I do think social service, there is a massive job to be done on the adoption system in England. It is absolutely horrific. I mean, crazy.

46:33Prue Leith:Leda, my daughter, has herself adopted two children. Has she? Which is a good testament to the fact that she can't have thought of it.

46:40Davina McCall:Yes, that's so lovely.

46:42Prue Leith:Isn't that the ultimate compliment? Yeah, it is. It's the ultimate validation that adoption works or can work.

46:54Davina McCall:And so you had two children quite close together, but they got on well, because your point was you didn't want to have one child alone.

47:01Prue Leith:Yes, yes. Yes, so Lida actually is a few months older than Daniel. So she arrived when she was 16 months and he was just a year. Wow. So they were very like twins. And it was very funny because I used to dress them in the same baby grows or whatever. And they had the same shorts and T-shirts and we just had one box of clothes and anything went on. But my mother had given Lida some very pretty little white grippier lace dresses. Very sweet. One day I dressed her up in this and Danny was absolutely furious because why couldn't he have a dress? And I thought, well, why can't he? He wants a dress.

47:52Prue Leith:So I put one of them on him and one of them. But I tucked his into his romper, his knickers, and put his shorts on. Love it. And off we went to the park walking with my friend. And then he wet his pants. And so I had to take his nappy off in the middle of the Ravenscourt park. And out popped this frilly dress. I remember my friend said, what are you doing to them? I mean, God, that boy, he'll grow up so confused. Do you know what?

48:30Davina McCall:I think that most boys that have grown up with sisters have done that. My son spent his whole life in the dress-up box and he had two big sisters, so it was all princess outfits from, you know, God knows what. And I feel like everybody does that. That's so interesting. It's always about what your friends admire. Honestly, these kind of little moments of your kids' lives are just so... You've lived an incredibly varied life. You've had two husbands and you loved both of them. It wasn't like you fell out of love in a divorce or anything like that. And you've experienced great love twice in your life, which is extraordinary.

49:20Davina McCall:Lucky. Yes. How many people get one? No, not many. Not many people have one. It's really something else. And two children who've brought you such joy and then such an incredible career. I often think, Davina, I just do think that I deserve the sword of Damocles to knock me

49:45Prue Leith:on. I mean, I should – it's not fair that I've had so much luck.

49:50Davina McCall:Can I say something, though, Prue? I don't believe you've had luck. You've been brave. You've taken risks. That's not luck. That's bravery.

50:00Prue Leith:It's luck that I've got. I don't think that you're – I think your spirit and your nature you're born with and obviously encouraged by encouraging parents. I think encouraging parents. That's a lot as well. Very important. I mean, parents who keep putting you down and telling you to know your place and not do anything, they're almost as dangerous as parents who tell their children that they are nothing's ever perfect all the time.

50:28Davina McCall:I mean, I'm sure you know this and lots of women tell you, but you're very inspiring because you are living your best life and we can all see it.

50:38Prue Leith:Well, you know, poor things. It's thrust upon them. But thank God, we need you. You know, we need you to. Well, I mean, as I keep saying, I enjoy the attention. And, of course, I'm glad to be out there because it might sell a few more books. But the truth is that I wrote this book for the – not – I just – you know, if you're a writer, and you know this, you can't not be writing something. I mean, I often say, well, that's the last thing I'll ever write. and the next second I'm writing a little article for the Odie or the Spectator or something. And on Bake Off you'd be writing all the time, right?

51:20Prue Leith:And all the time that I was sitting in the Winnebago I would be writing because I think writers cannot write. It's a kind of itch. It's a disease. Writing is a disease. And I think I'll do writing until I drop. So I needed something to write. I hadn't got anything in the pipeline. And I just thought, well, where am I? And I didn't want to write another sort of memoir, which it is in a way, but I didn't want to be confined to it being a memoir or an account of something. I thought, I'll just write about anything I like as if they were essays or pieces of journalism for a magazine.

52:03Davina McCall:Having heard your story, your passion for assisted dying is understandable. I think as we all get older, we all have a deeper understanding of it because we have a lot more friends who are going through awful situations. Yes. And you think, God, is this? Is this the best way to do it? Yes. But I know that your son has a different view. And you did a documentary with him, didn't you, on Channel 4? And that slightly his opinion kind of slightly changed. He did understand your point of view a little bit more, didn't he?

52:39Prue Leith:Yes, I think we both shifted a bit. I thought it was good of him to have come to do that program because the overwhelming majority of the public want to have a sister dying. And so he had a higher mountain to climb if he was trying to convert people than I did. But I think he understood his attitude now, which I think he was much more dogmatic before, But his attitude now is that he has no objection to doctors, you know, the so-called Liverpool pathway. They call it the Liverpool pathway, but it's basically when a doctor gives you a lot of morphine.

53:37Davina McCall:Oh, my sister had this, a syringe driver, a machine that keeps you sedated. She can take as much morphine as she likes, which means she's not likely to kill herself

53:49Prue Leith:because she would fall asleep before she squeezes the bulb again. But she can manage her pain, which my brother couldn't. He was just crying and weeping and sometimes screaming and begging to be killed because he wanted to die so badly. He had bone cancer and he was in an NHS hospital. The doctors never came around except when they'd just been given their morphine and they were all very very fortunate. show, doctor, I'm fine. So that's what got me on it. But Daniel's attitude now is that if a compassionate doctor is giving morphine in order to still the pain and it happens to kill them or they die, that's not too bad because at least Because he's not opposed to that because he said they're under the care of a good professional.

54:54Prue Leith:The intention is not to kill them. It is to relieve pain. That's fine. But of course, a lot of people 50 years ago, that's how they went. My father had a perfectly – it was a horrible death in the sense that he had, like my brother, bone cancer and he had to wait till it got into his lungs to kill him. Nobody would deliberately kill him but he just had increasing doses of morphine and in the end he fell asleep. My younger brother as well, he died like that too. At the moment why we need a sister dying is because in the end it's so horrible for the carers, that they are relieved when somebody dies.

55:47My sister-in-law, my brother's wife, for months she couldn't stop thinking about the fact

55:54Prue Leith:that she was feeling really guilty that she had sat by her husband's bed with him unable to breathe, dying of pneumonia. By then he had pneumonia. Phlegm everywhere. and she was just saying, David, please just die, just die, just die. That's a terrible thing to happen. Yeah. Anyway, to end on a jolly note. Okay, let's end on a jolly note. Can I tell you a quick story? Yes. I was cooking a woman's dinner when I was in my cook for hire stage, quite young and there was a hatch between me and the kitchen and I could hear the guests talking and I heard this guy saying this dinner is delicious can I have the number of the cook because I want her to cook my director's lunches and she said oh no no she said I'm the cook she said I wouldn't dream of being of having a cook I cook everything myself and she said she's just there to do the washing up So, I wanted to open the doors, you know, open the hatch.

57:11Prue Leith:And I thought, that's not really clever. But I remembered that I had a whole lot of newly printed little cards and I had hung up all their coats. So I put a card into every pocket I could find in the Coke room. And I wrote on the top of them, your dinner was cooked by. And it worked because the next day that guy rang me up and he hired me for his direct And then he said to me, you know, I did love your food. You know, you're a very good cook. He said that I was much more impressed with your marketing skills. Right. And that's the point. So many artists think the great thing is to be able to do fantastic painting.

57:50Prue Leith:But they've got to get a gallery. They've got to get an agent. They've got to go out and sell it. Even if they've been selling it on the railings of Hyde Park. Yes. So, you know, you've got to hustle. Yes. I think you have, I mean, I've been very lucky with a positive attitude. If things have gone wrong, my attitude is always either, damn it all, that was a good idea. It's worth another crack, but I'll have to do it slightly differently. Or, well, that didn't work. Move on to something else. I mean, I don't spend hours looking backwards.

58:28Davina McCall:No, always moving forwards. I love that. Always forwards. And that's another brilliant life lesson, I think. Don't look backwards. Just walk towards a new goal. But I wanted to know about your clothing because I feel like in midlife, when we hit menopause, I can't tell you, having been an extreme show-off my entire life, I hit menopause and I felt invisible. I literally felt like no one could see me anymore. I'd gone just... You didn't look old enough to be hit menopause. But I disappeared. I felt like I'd just disappeared.

59:02Prue Leith:And so many women say that. And it's so crazy. And they say things like, you know, I used to wear red. I loved your red. But I mean, you know, I turned 50 or 60 or something. And I wouldn't dream of it. Actually, older women need colour more than girls. Young girls are so bloody beautiful anyway. They don't need to put any makeup on. They don't need to try. They're just delicious. They're lovely. So, you know, we need a bit of help. I was in Paddington Station the other day and there must have been 300 people on the concourse, black clothes. Everyone had a black. It was a lousy day, but everybody was in black.

59:44Prue Leith:And then a woman walked in, a single woman, and she had a bright green coat on. And suddenly it looked like a picture, like Constable always has a bit of red in the corner or something. It just suddenly looked better for that little. And, you know, OK, black is a great colour. It makes you look slim and elegant and all this. How about a big red rose on your shoulder or a great coloured scarf?

1:00:11Davina McCall:Black shows up things. I mean, I've got to say you just made me smile. And also what was really funny, when I came to greet you outside, you were miles away and I was like, there's Prue. I mean, I could see you. It was so brilliant. I was like, there she is. It's definitely her. I can run towards her like a maniac. Well, you were wearing the most wonderful pink jacket. Yes, well, I wore that for you. Right, but you took it off. I bought it for you. Yes, well, I just thought it looked like I was trying to leave or something. I didn't want to kind of look like I was trying. Prue, can I just say a huge thank you for coming to talk to me today?

1:00:47Davina McCall:Thank you so much. You are our pinup. I used to have posters of Starsky in my bedroom But now it's you I believe it Thank you for being so inspiring Honestly

1:01:02Prue Leith:I'd have come miles to do this

1:01:04Davina McCall:Well, we're so grateful But I'll tell you what

1:01:06Prue Leith:This has got to be This is the price of the price Yes You have to come and cook for me on the Cotsworth kitchen

1:01:16Davina McCall:I'd love to Will you?

1:01:17Prue Leith:Yeah Gosh, it'd be good Yeah

1:01:19Davina McCall:Brace yourself Oh, I love it. I'm terrible. Prue, I've also got a little thing that I wanted to read for you. We've got a quick letter as a sign-off. We got a little letter for you from Alison Hammond. I adore Alison. I adore Alison as well. It's quite funny because we're connected. You worked with her and she was on Big Brother and I was the presenter. So, my darling Prue, I've been sitting here trying to find the right words and for once in my life I'm nearly speechless. which you know is rare. From the moment I joined Bake Off, you welcomed me with open arms, not just politely, not just professionally, but properly, warmly, generously.

1:02:03Davina McCall:You made me feel like I belonged there, like I'd always been part of the tent. That kind of welcome stays with a person. What touched me most was how genuinely interested you were in me. You didn't just ask me surface questions. You read my book, you asked about my life, you spoke about my mum in a way that meant so much to me. I know in my heart you and my mum would have absolutely adored each other. The thought of you two together chatting away makes me smile more than you'll ever know. And coming to your home, what a special memory that is. You letting me through your earrings, letting me go through your earrings and jewels like a child discovering treasure.

1:02:42Davina McCall:it wasn't about the sparkle although we both love a bit of sparkle it was about your generosity your openness and the way you made me feel completely at ease that's oh that's a gift I have to say too watching you with your wonderful husband has been such a lesson for me the way he looks at you the way he lives for you supports you adores you the two of you together have shown me what love should look like. Respectful, joyful, solid. You've quietly set a standard and I've taken notes. Professionally, you're simply extraordinary. On Bake Off, you carry yourself with such grace and authority. You're sharp, witty, impeccably prepared and utterly fair.

1:03:24Davina McCall:You bring warmth without ever losing your standards. It's a masterclass every time. I've learnt so much just by watching you work. Although I've only known you a few years, You've enriched my life in ways you may never fully realise. You've inspired me, supported me and reminded me that elegance and kindness go hand in hand. This is an amazing letter. I feel incredibly lucky to call you not just a colleague, but a friend. Thank you for welcoming me. Thank you for seeing me. And thank you for being so beautifully, unapologetically you. With all my love, Alison. Isn't that absolutely wonderful? I think you should get that framed actually, Prue.

1:04:10Davina McCall:Put it in your kitchen.

1:04:12Prue Leith:It's so flattering. It's almost too flattering to be.

1:04:14Davina McCall:All right, you can put it in a loo. There's always really nice things about you. Just put it in the loo.

1:04:20Prue Leith:But, you know, she's a wonderful woman, Alison. Well, she thinks the same of you.