Richard Bacon: Headlines, Addiction & Love “I Wouldn’t Be Alive Without Her”

18:33which is really exciting.

18:35Davina McCall:This is very hard to say. I'm already struggling. An anarchic time. Yeah, definitely. In television, where suddenly the anarchy of the tabloids was converted onto a channel. It was. That's what Kelvin wanted to bring to a channel where like... With hardly any money as well. With no money, we're going to mess it all up. We're going to throw it on its head. TV, we want everything to kind of go wrong and a lot of it was awful and some of it was okay do you know what I mean? it was exciting I hosted a live show every day called 4 it was on from 4 until 5 so it was called 4 to 5 obviously and I hosted in terms of air miles, of practising being on air I did so much, I made a documentary called Behind the Scenes of Topless Darts on Ice

19:31Davina McCall:it was bays water ice rink oh my god this is amazing yeah classic it was a classic loads yeah claudia claudia was there loads of people were there at that time i mean it was just strange i mean i had never lived away from home i was sharing a house with a load of people and look at what you were doing i've got a 19 year old what an achievement i chased james hewitt down the street once damon old one got really annoyed at me i chased him down the street once. He threw a beer all over my face. It was a commentator on 10-pin bowling. That was... What? They had a 10-pin bowling. They got the rights to 10-pin bowling and I decided to commentate on it.

20:07Of course they did.

20:09Davina McCall:I mean, God, I fucking hell. I remember I got banned for life, not only from Parliament, I got banned for life from my local McDonald's. But I did. For life. Oh my God, you've got to do something really bad. I know. To do that. Remember, I already couldn't cook. It's the only place I had to go for food. Banned from the place. It's because it was... Remember Mad Cow Disease? Yes. And so Mad Cow Disease... Mad Cow Disease hits. And I'm in the newsroom at Live TV and I'm standing near Kelvin McKenzie and on the news it said McDonald's has decided to continue to sell British beef. They've stubbornly decided we are going to...

20:52It's in the news. We're going to counter-sell British beef despite Mad Cow Disease. And Kelvin was looking out the window down at the McDonald's and the Isle of Dogs, and he went, he looked at me, I think he even knew my name, but, you, get in there, get a crew and go down there. And he went, get the manager and accuse him of murdering people.

21:09Davina McCall:And you did. He said, go in there and tell him, by continuing to sell British beef, he's murdering people. So I did. I went in there with a crew into McDonald's, and I asked for the manager. And he came out, and I said, you're murdering people. And then that's, I mean, it's legitimate reason to get banned from McDonald's for life. You just unbelievably ballsy. But I think I'm going to talk to you about this later. An ADHD diagnosis much later in life, like in your 40s. Yeah, yeah. 40, 43, yeah. Would have probably been a really nice explanation of why you were such a crazy risk to you. Because all of these things could get you into enormous trouble.

21:53Davina McCall:but you sort of enjoyed it. I did enjoy it, yeah. It's really, the ADHD thing is so interesting. It explains, for some people it explains addiction. You know, I have really slow blood flow to the front of my brain, to the prefrontal cortex. So I went to Orange County to the Amen Clinic, which is the number one place in America for ADHD. And they did my brain scan and they showed it to me. And my blood flow here is so slow that it's a black patch on my brain scan. So you can actually physically see my ADHD. Because my blood flow here is so slow. And what does that mean? It means that I take loads of stimulants to speed it up.

22:31Or to make it feel like it's spinning up. He reaches for his coffee. Yeah, I mean, this is my third black coffee today. You know, you can see why I got into cocaine. And that's what it means. And it means scattered focus. It means hyper focus. But even they at this clinic were like, oh, that's a big one. That's not even a normal ADHD. that is like we can see it on your brain scan ADHD and that's when he said to me he put his hand on Rebecca's shoulder and said she's keeping you alive he was like I'm surprised you're not he said to me I'm surprised you're not dead then a year later I was in a coma

23:04Davina McCall:I want to talk to you about this as well do you want to go back to getting turned out at McDonald's no but I do quickly want to talk to you about Rebecca just there where you said she's keeping you alive because I think you already had quite a good sense of that that she is the person that grounds. She's your roots. Yeah, definitely she is. She keeps you in the ground. Yeah, and maybe subconsciously you're looking for somebody like that. I met her at Capital Radio. I was hosting the Drive Time show and she was head of marketing. And I just, I mean, I really fancied her immediately. But also she, there's just something about her, but there still is.

23:42You know, she's just got a real, I don't know what it is. Not exactly a hippie quality, but there's just something. She's a good person. I mean, at her core. I've sort of learned that more and more about her. We've been together 20 years, married 18. She's just a good...

23:57Davina McCall:Can I just say, well done. Oh, thanks. That's a big deal. Yeah, I would not have predicted that I would stay married. Do you know what I mean? That's not, to come back to all the issues we've been hinting at here, is I'm not the sort of person you would expect to, but I want to. I want to stay with her forever. I mean, I just, you know, every now and again in your marriage, it can be a bit difficult, can't it? And I'm like, God, whenever I've confronted the possibility that I might lose her, it's awful. Do you know what I mean? And I think, so maybe subconsciously, I was looking for somebody who I knew might keep me alive.

24:30But also, she just has this quality about her that not only is she a good person, she's just one of those people who's touched with a bit of magic. And we just talk and talk. but we also

24:43Davina McCall:that is a lovely thing to say about someone Richard she's touched with a bit of magic yeah she's touched a bit of magic oh I love that but she really is and I think and we just talk and talk and talk and talk I mean fucking hell it's like even this morning we were just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and then talk and talk and sometimes I say to her isn't it wild how do you not run out of conversation after 18 years and it's just I mean you and Michael have that I mean isn't it great though we're very lucky yeah we all yeah definitely and he had that cliche about someone being your best friend but she is my best friend yeah and it's just it is obviously true and I know I just really value her and I really rate her and I really respect her it's funny isn't it you just the sliding doors thing of you know I might never have met her then I would it doesn't mean it's just it's a random thing I was working at XFM doing the drive time show which I loved and they poached me put me on it's a floor below on Capital Radio of Draft Time Show, which wasn't really that suited to because I like to do quite subversive things.

25:43So I had a year there. Then I went back to XFM, but it's in that year. Falling in love with her was just really exciting. I mean, falling in love is exciting. It's just overwhelming, isn't it? I mean, it's just, you can't wait to see each other and kissing in corridors. It's just, but it is though, isn't it? It is. It's really something. And it was, you know, she was with somebody before me and that all was a bit tricky and I mean, he certainly didn't like me. So you go through, you know, with all of these experiences. But yeah, I would think the problem, I mean, I would get excited just if she sent me a text and I would, and it was back then when the phones weren't, this is pre-iPhone, it probably is, isn't it?

26:27It is. It's just pre-iPhone coming out. So I'd get a text on like a Nokia and her name would come up before you saw the text, you know what I mean? And even that, I would find it exciting and almost sexy just to see the name Rebecca on a screen. Do you know what I mean? It was kind of like, yeah, it was the happiest time of my life, I think, that year of falling in love with her.

26:49Davina McCall:And how old were you then? I was probably 30. Yeah, 30. Yeah. So you'd already been through a lot in your life. I'd had several careers, but you had as well, though. Yeah. I saw a clip of you the other day introducing Oasis on MTV, and I was thinking, but they weren't famous. No. It was the first time I think they'd been on MTV. I was introducing them as a new band. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it's a band called Oasis. To have been a TV presenter so long that you can find a clip of you introducing a band called Oasis that no one's heard of. As you know, I have been trying out Monzo, who are sponsoring Begin Again.

27:26Davina McCall:And I think one of the cleverest things about it is something called Salary Sorter. Now, I'm going to show you on a prop phone, by the way, because you're not seeing my actual bank balance, nosy. But what's amazing about it is your pay lands and it splits itself out. Bills, savings, spending, sorted. Set it once and every payday just happens. I know what money feels like. That running list in your head. Can I cover everything? Have I put enough by? What have I actually got left? I carried that for years. And what I love is how quietly Monzo takes that weight off you. You see it all, you sort it all, and the worry goes with it.

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28:44Davina McCall:Hair, skin, nails, connective tissues and Ancient and Brave, whose collagen I have been taking for years is literally top shelf. These formulas are rigorously tested. But you know what really sets Ancient and Brave apart? It isn't just their amazing product, but it is their commitment to sustainability. So 1 % of their sales, which goes to environmental causes. So if you want to give this a try, go to ancientandbrave.earth.planet and just use the code BEGIN AGAIN to get 20 % off. Result! Cheers to that. Cheers to that! Now, we're not going to make the Blue Peter thing a huge, great big thing because it was only a year of your life.

29:27Davina McCall:but I would like to say... 20 months. I would like... Yeah, 20 months. I would like to say before we discuss it... Yeah. We've got to say it's potentially the best thing that ever happened to you. It's definitely the best thing that ever happened to me, apart from Rebecca. No, but it is... I mean, talk us through how you started at Blue Peter. How you started taking cocaine. Yeah, and how you started... No, how you started at Blue Peter, because you got the audition. First time... You went up for the audition. and what did you have to do for the audition? I went through, you have to hold a snake, you have to go on a...

30:03I'm saying it like it's normal. You have to hold a snake, you have to go on a trampoline.

30:07Davina McCall:So Blue Peter. So it was really fun. I mean, it was so exciting. I wrote... So a guy at Live TV says, Tim Vincent's leaving, you should go for that job. So I wrote a letter and I said, I just decided to tell Blue Peter that I was naughty and that all these things I'd done, chasing James Hewitt down the street, Damon Olbermann having a go at me. You know, all this getting thrown out of McDonald's for life. My first ever job was in McDonald's, actually, but thrown out. And then I wrote a letter to the editor of Blue Peter called Oliver McFarlane. And I said, Dear Oliver, they say when you're tired of London, you're tired of life.

30:44But when you're tired of live TV, you've been there about a year. Right. It was my opening line.

30:53and then I sent a table of all the craziest or worst things I've done at live TV the getting in trouble things and I thought I'm just going to show them who I am and that made them take note of me I mean they should have seen the early warning sign because then it did go wrong you did warn them I'd warn them in effect but that's how I think I stood out I sent quite a bold tape of the stuff we talked about and that letter and then I went in and had the audition. It was fucking amazing. I mean, just giant studios at Television Centre, you know?

31:26Davina McCall:I mean, and so iconic. We'd all grown up with Blue Peter. Yeah, so iconic. And Connie Huck and Katie were lovely. Yeah, we were a nice gang and there were nice people. And then I was, where was I? I was at Smithfield Market doing a piece for live TV when I got a call saying, basically saying, the editor wants to see you and they indicated I was going to get the job. and then I went to see him and told me he got the job and then I just couldn't believe it. I remember walking up and down Wood Lane just going, oh my God. I just couldn't believe it. It was, I mean, going to Television Centre for the first time, which was when I had that, you know, I met the editor, then the audition, then went back to be told I got the job.

32:04Because just, you know, do you remember those dots on the wall? Yeah. You know, and it was just, I mean, it's really, even now if we go to TV Centre, I still feel something for the place. You know what I mean? When I first started presenting it, the show, and my first episode was in what's called TC1 which is still there. It was the biggest studio. It's where they do all the children in need, comic relief, election nights, all those things. And I remember I was just, it was rehearsal and all the crew there, there's several cameras and then there's a camera like on a crane and loads of people with headphones.

32:34And it's a piece I had to do. I was talking to the camera and I had to walk from one side of the studio to the other and all the cameras tracked with me. And I couldn't, and I stopped and they all stopped. and awards people and they all went and I know it doesn't sound like much I know you've done this a billion times but when it first happens do you know what I'm getting at? All these follow you everyone's just waiting for you to move and I'd say it's amazing I thought it was amazing

32:59Davina McCall:Well it's just so exciting It's just so exciting And it's something that you'd worked in it's a bit like you were saying earlier about live TV being a practice for a year When I first started on MTV they put me on at midnight till three So nobody was watching so I could do as many mistakes I messed up and I did this for six months so when I actually did something real like quite big I was ready you were ready you were just absolutely you've done all this you've done so much by then you're only like 21 or whatever it's amazing isn't it I mean I was 25 I was old you were such a baby yeah and you did some amazing things is it true that you trained for Sandhurst?

33:43yeah Yeah, they offered me a... Yeah, I did. I went and lived there for a week or so. Wow. This is the Blue Peter Open Seas Doors. They did officer training at Sandhurst. And I had to do... I had to change really quickly into a chemical, biological warfare suit. I had to do the assault course. I had to wade through dirty water through a tunnel with a rifle above my head. And then I did the passing out parade. And it went really well. and the head of Sandhurst, he might be called the Commandant, I don't know, something like that. At the end of it, he called me into his office and it's his wood panelled office and there's all your paintings of all, you know, World War II generals and things.

34:22Anyway, we're just really impressed, Richard. And we'd like to offer you a spot here at Sandhurst and you can become an army officer. I said, yeah, but I'm a TV presenter. I don't want to be shot at. I want to go to a big studio and have all these cameras follow me. I want to be shot at, but not in that way.

34:43Davina McCall:But did you not just kind of go, oh, that feels nice? Yeah, it did feel nice. Yeah, it felt nice. It felt like, yeah, it did. It did. It was, oh, I didn't know I'd done it that well. And I would not, you know, being in, I mean, at my school, we had a mock-on, we think, called CCF that got thrown out of, you know. So, like, I wasn't, it's not my natural thing. But it did feel nice. I went to Houston and studied mission control during a fucking mission, you know. Oh, my God. There's this giant swimming pool at NASA. and it's so big there's a fucking space shuttle at the bottom of it with its bay doors open so that they can practice weightlessness the pool is so big there's a space shuttle at the bottom of it and they're on the arms you know like when you're in space and I went in that you know that's what Blue Peter does that we did the Blue Peter summer expedition to India went to Darjeeling Calcutta all these places and it was fantastic it really was an absolutely amazing job And you were only there for a year and you did all of that?

35:42Yeah.

35:43Davina McCall:Or 20 months? 20 months. It's amazing, isn't it? My parents were so proud. They're so funny. Oh, I bet. My dad, the first time he came to see me host Billy Peter, he went up to the receptionist at TV Centre and he just went, I'm Richard Bacon's dad. Oh. And they were like, they didn't know who I was. He assumed, they'd go, oh, they'd come through. He's so proud. It's so sweet, isn't it? So proud. I know. Well, that's why then it's a hard fall when you lose the job. That's why then it becomes... He's a criminal defence lawyer, was a criminal defence lawyer. And then, of course, he'd done something illegal, so the fall is really big for them.

36:19Davina McCall:How upset was he? Well, it's the only time my mum's ever heard him cry. I mean, he cried and he went in the shower to hide his crying. Oh, no. So he turned the shower on and cried, you know, when she could hear him weeping because he was so ashamed, I think, and he was embarrassed about going back to court the next day. so it really hit him hard she only told me about that a few years later it was the week of my mum's 50th I got fired and I've just turned 50 but yeah that hit them, it was very difficult for them, it was sort of slightly easier for me Can I ask you something though, because it was how good a friend was it that set you up?

36:59Davina McCall:Well he was my best friend at the time He was your actual best friend Yeah, he recorded a phone call with me so he went to Max Hastings remember him? Yes went to Max Hastings yeah said he was basically jealous of me we'd been working at Radio Nottingham together and he'd been doing some PR there and then I hung out with him in London actually the first time I did co-claim was with him do you remember that place called Browns? Yes did you have a go? yeah yeah of course of course you went of course God I remember the first time and he got some he gave me it and I didn't really understand it and I did the whole thing at once.

37:38Davina McCall:Can I ask you a question about ADHD and cocaine? Because it doesn't have the same effect on people with... It doesn't do that much. That's the other crazy thing about it. It doesn't actually do that much to me. If anything, I talk less. I go quieter. So typically when people are on coke... So why did you like it? What did you like about it? I don't know. I mean, I think it's the stimulant thing. I think it comes down to what I now understand since having the ADHD diagnosis at age 42 at the Amen Clinic in Orange County. It's just an understanding that you're trying to make up with something that's missing because your blood flow to the prefrontal cortex is so slow.

38:17So you're making up for it. It's something to do with that. And so, I mean, but that's the craziest thing about it is it didn't change me that much. But I did get into it, obviously. And he, so we'd had a big night out and he then called Max Hastings, who said, you need evidence. So he said to him, record Richard's phone call. So it's a bit like a precursor to phone hacking in a way. So this guy then recorded a phone call with me and he went, oh, we had a big night the other night, didn't we? And I went, yeah. And he went, remind me what happened. Looking back, it's obviously a crazy way to talk.

38:53And I went, oh, yes, well, we went here and we had some drugs here and we went to that club in Covent Garden and had some drugs. and then that all appeared verbatim in the news of the world you know and i was like well how can they have how can they and so i'll tell you what happened there's a guy called stewart higgins who i really like he was doing some pr from my aid my agent at the time john holmes had hired stewart higgins a former editor of the sun to do pr for all his clients and so i was at the blue peters 40th birthday party at the Natural History Museum and I left with Karen Keating, who I loved.

39:28I really used to fancy her. I really did. I'm being very ADHD now and I'm changing so quickly, rapidly changing the whole thing. I left with Karen Keating, who's obviously passed away a long time ago now, and Anthea Turner. And there was a photographer outside and he was only taking pictures of me. And I was like, but that's weird. Why would you not take a picture of Karen Keating and Anthea Turner? and he just was shooing me down the street and I said, why are you ignoring them? It doesn't make any sense. They're more famous than me. I don't know what you're doing. So I called John Holmes who called Stuart Higgins and Stuart said I'd do some digging and I was at my little flat in Chiswick and my dad had come down to see me and we were painting the living room and we went to Wicks, B &Q to get some paint.

40:12It was midnight mist. and um and

40:20details very important Davina

40:23Davina McCall:I feel like I'm really getting like the full account here yeah you are there's nothing left out no I want all of it Richard then I was coming back from being cute yeah and my mobile and my dad's in the drive he's driving your dad was there with you when he got the news Yeah, he's driving. And I'm in the passenger seat. And I answer it. And this guy goes, Stuart Higgins. He goes, it's news of the world, cocaine and lots of it. That was the exact phrase. News of the world, cocaine and lots of it. And what he meant by lots of it was lots of coverage, not lots of cocaine. Yeah. And so I looked at my dad and I thought, God, I can't.

41:05So he's there next to me. And I'm like, I can't. I'm not going to tell him now. so we then got back to my house started painting the living room Midnight Mist and I sort of went oh dad I think there's going to be a story about me tomorrow you know and the truth is that your parents don't quite get the severity of it and then I thought shit I'd better tell the editor so I went to Oliver McFarlane's house the editor of Blue Peter his wife answered the door she made me tea and cakes

41:29Davina McCall:and I went listen guys I'm going to be in the news of the world tomorrow and I explained what it was for and she went oh she went oh everyone does that nowadays I think she thought cocaine was weed She went, everyone does that nowadays. She went, it will be fine. And I remember saying to them both, I don't think it's going to be fine. I don't think it's going to. And the other thing I wanted to be growing up was a newspaper editor. There's a famous book called Stick It Up You Punter, which is actually partly about Kelvin McKenzie and all these people. And I actually was really, really interested in tabloids.

42:01And so I knew how they worked. And the truth is, going to live TV and working with Kelvin McKenzie, he's not my cup of tea, as you can imagine. but nonetheless they're interesting people. Yes. And I'd wanted to be a newspaper editor and so I understood the severity of the story and I remember thinking to myself, if I was the editor of the News of the World, I'd run this damn story. Yes. And they didn't put it on the front page, which actually was a fucking weird, I think it was a mistake by them. And so, you know, it did blow off and became a big thing. I went to East Tower at TV Centre on Sunday morning to meet with Lorraine Hegesy.

42:38And I got in the lift with the head of HR who was holding my contract.

42:43Davina McCall:You know, I thought, are you going to tear that up?

42:49Davina McCall:You know, when you've got that little idea in the back of your mind, something that you think, you know what, I might do that one day. And then life gets kind of busy and it just sort of stays there. Well, I was thinking about how sometimes overwhelming it can feel when you actually try to start something, design, writing, photography, payments, tech, all of it, it's a lot. Well, Shopify, whose sponsors begin again, sort of takes that chaos and it makes it feel achievable because it gives you a place to build your shop without needing to be an expert. It's got templates, it's got tools that help you write product descriptions and nudge you along a bit when you get stuck.

43:33Davina McCall:It means that you can just start. If you've been sitting on an idea or you could just maybe have a look, try it out. Go to shopify.co.uk. If you want to, you can sign up for£1 per month trial and you could actually start selling right away. When you've had your dream job and you've been sold out by your best friend, you lose your dream job then they're going like this guy did a bad thing yeah and we are ashamed of him and he's ashamed of himself like how where does that leave you mentally well it could i mean thankfully i did deal with it mentally quite well i mean it obviously was a few days when it was hard and i was you know spiraling a bit i was 22 so in two years it'll be two years it'll be 30 years ago yeah i was young to go through a big public humiliation like that and it was they were talking about it in the House of Commons.

44:24I mean, I went to the pub in Belsize. I went to hide in Belsize Park for some reason. Spent a lot of the week with Chris Moyles and Chris Evans. I mean, it was just... How did that happen? I can't quite remember. I think Mitch, the voiceover guy from Live and Kicking, I was friends with him and he said, come and live with me. Do you remember Mitch?

44:39Davina McCall:Yeah. I mean, I remember his voice. Yeah, I remember his voice. Yeah, yeah. For some reason in my... I've had quite a cartoon life and I did find myself... So I went to live with the voiceover guy from Live and Kicking in Belsize Park. and then I was in the pub with him and Chris Moyle so at that point he must have been on the early breakfast show he was on the early breakfast show he wasn't famous and we were watching and someone went oh they're talking about you on question time so we put question time on in the Havistock Arms in Balsyce Park and I was a subject of debate and every time someone on the panel made a point in my favour the whole pub applauded the whole pub stopped and watched Actually, it was on the TV up there.

45:21The whole pub applauded. And then every time some Tory MP was like, he should be put in prison, the whole pub booed. And then I had Chris Evans truly trying to get me to go on TFI Friday. And Stuart Higgins advised me not to do it. And I think it did make sense. He said, just look a bit more contrite than that. But then Chris talked about me for hours on the Virgin Radio Breakfast Show. And I remember when I was on...

45:45Davina McCall:And wait, wait, because he's an interesting guy, Chris Evans. Very. because I think he could see that something that the reaction to you was unjust. Yeah. That you'd been set up and this was unfair. He loves the underdog. Yeah, he does. Doesn't he? Yeah. But there was something about you. He could see something in you. Well, we later became friends. I'm actually going on his podcast soon. And we became friends. When I was on Blue Peter, he was so big. You know, this is 97, 98. Oh my God, he was mega. It was just like this stuff. And I remember watching Don't Forget Toothbrush when I was at Radio Nottingham.

46:21He was, I remember thinking, I remember sitting in makeup at Blue Peter one day, remembering this daydream, and I think how amazing it would be if I one day got to meet Chris Evans. I remember consciously thinking, can you imagine even meeting Chris Evans? And then I get fired, and he just talks about me for hours. He gave this quote where he said, half the BBC are on drugs. And that obviously then Sunfront page, half the BBC are on drugs. And he was a real supporter, And so that was a long-winded way of me saying that I dealt with it all right. And I suppose at some point it became quite exciting.

46:54Davina McCall:But part of the reason why you dealt with it all right, and I think this is an important message to everybody out there, was because people had your back. Yeah. And strangers. So Chris Evans. Yeah. Chris Moyles. Yeah. And the guy from Live and Kicking who did the voiceover, they took you in. Yeah, they did, yeah. You were not alone. Yeah, that's true. And they really helped you. They did help me, yeah, for sure. There's no question about it. And Stuart Higgins really helped me. You know, there were good people around me. I mean, there was one Blue Peter producer who said to me, you'll never work in TV again.

47:26I was like... But it's just not a helpful thing to say to somebody. Like, what's the point in saying it?

47:32Davina McCall:So you left Blue Peter, but really, in a way, it was a bit of a gift. Yeah. Because as much as Blue Peter was your thing, you were actually the naughty boy that sent the original tape in with you going, this is who I really am. And you'd sort of put a lid on that for Blue Peter a bit. And then you took the lid off again. I did, yeah. Took the lid off again. So you went to radio. What did I do after Blue Peter? No, I went to the big breakfast after Blue Peter. Oh, yes, of course you did. It was really, I mean, it was about three months later, But I was, yeah, I remember the first show back, I watched it.

48:16This is the first Blue Peter back after I left. Partly because they're all, you know, Richard's been very naughty. But I also felt a sort of sadness that the team, Katie Hill, Connie Huggs, Stuart Miles, they were all there on the set with the dog, you know, and I did feel like left out. You know, that was sad. That was quite hard. I was like, oh, God, look, there they all are. because I'd always loved the big studio and all that stuff. And then, again, continuing the cartoon life, Andy Peters calls me, who at that point is a commissioning editor at Channel 4, and calls me in and says, I think you'd be good on The Big Breakfast.

48:54And then... That was a brilliant shout. Yeah, well, the hosts of The Big Breakfast had been to prison for dealing cocaine. So it was like, this was nothing.

49:07Davina McCall:And of course, you knew Johnny. Yeah, and he was, I mean, that was intimidating in a way because he was the other Chris Evans. I mean, he was like, you're so good on The Big Breakfast. It was just so good at it. It was just a comedy masterclass every day. To stand in the back of the house and watch him work, you must have done it. Did you ever get down there when you did? Yeah. I was doing the outside broadcast. I worked at The Big Breakfast for three years and my first outside broadcast, it was like scary. he was famously would be a bit he'd either get behind you or he wouldn't do you know what I mean?

49:40Quite quick decision making and my first outside broadcast was in Liverpool and it was an absolute chaotic mess there was

49:51Davina McCall:which is great yeah it was great my first one was a feature called Bringing Home the Bacon it was called Bringing Home the Bacon and we decided to take a plate spinner to someone's garden and have a little party. And this plate spinner, the show's on at 7am, so you get to this close in Liverpool where we're surprising a family. And I'd booked a plate spinner. He turns up at half six and he's called Bob. He's called Bob the plate spinner. And this is my first job on TV after Blue Peter. And he turns up and the outside broadcast truck is there and he opens his boot and I went, great, glad you're here.

50:30And he goes, oh no. I went, what, Bob? And he went, I've forgotten. because I've forgotten my plates. And I said, I said, Bob, you're a plate spinner. There's only two things. There's the sticks and there's the plates. And he said, well, I've brought the sticks. I said, but you haven't brought the plates. And I went, okay. So I knocked on another door in this close, not of the house, we're surprising. I said, this is really strange. Have you got, can I, I said, got any plates and can I have them? And they went, yeah. So I went, Bob, we've got some plates. He went, no, no, he goes, they have to have a hole in the bottom.

51:07So I went back to the person and went, can I have your plates and have you got a drill? And they went, yeah. So we then drilled little holes into some stranger's plate. And then we surprised this family, did the outside broadcast. Bob puts his plates on the sticks, but they haven't been drilled properly. And it turns out that the plates we got from the neighbour were too heavy. So he put all the plates on the sticks and one at a time, each stick started to bend really slowly, really slowly, and the plate flipped off and shattered everywhere. And then the next one shattered and the next one and the next one.

51:41And it was a disaster. All of them went and Johnny Vaughan thought it was just the best thing I'd ever seen. The best thing he'd ever seen. And then I stayed at the Big Breakfast.

51:49Davina McCall:And everybody would have been watching it, your first moment back on TV after the grand scandal. Yeah. And it is amazing. And it was so funny. And I was laughing so much. And I then did a feature called Plate Spinning Bob Goes to Vegas. And I took him to Vegas. I took him to Vegas. I put him on stage at the Circus Circus Hotel. And I deliberately went and bought some plates that were too heavy. They fell off as well. But, like, this was a time when the chaos was embraced. Yeah. Like, we've sort of gone, it's quite homogenised television now. Yeah. And it was brilliant when you'd be watching it.

52:29Davina McCall:You loved live TV because anything could happen and it always did. And that's what you were so good at. Yeah. That kind of, and Chris Evans and Johnny Vaughan, that kind of anything can happen. And the chaos of it. The chaos of it. Yeah, I miss that. And when I went to XFM, which is effectively where Johnny is now, it's called Radio X, but I did carry that on. I just carried on doing features like that. They're a bit dangerous. I did a feature called Employed or Unemployed where I'd go into Leicester Square with headphones on and I'd have a caller on the line and I'd describe a passerby and then I'd go, do you think they've got a job or not?

53:06And then I'd run up to them and say, are you employed or unemployed? And I did it one time and a guy beat me up. He was so annoyed that I'd even asked him the question. So I just carried on that, just doing what, you know.

53:16Davina McCall:Can I just ask you, what do you mean? How badly did he mean? Well, he just hit me a couple of times and I went to the floor. I kept asking him to stop. The producer in the studio went to an ad break. I was furious. I was like, no, don't cut to an ad break. That's the best bit. Me being beaten up is the best bit. Don't go to ads now. But it was just, it was, but yeah, that sense of doing stuff, I suppose, with a little bit of danger was what I carried on doing. Now I have a job where I come up with ideas, and that's because of the big breakfast. It was so hungry for ideas. I diverted into news and current affairs for a while, but that is a place where if you like ideas, you suit it, because it's so, it needs 20 a day, you know.

53:54Davina McCall:So can I skip forward a bit? Yeah, of course. You worked in a lot of really good channels. Radio 5 Live I was at for a long time. I did a nighttime show and an afternoon show there. And you were famous for that. I mean, your talk show was absolutely, you know. I loved it. Yeah, and you were very, I think for you, that suited you so well. Yeah, yeah, I liked it and I liked being on the radio. Then I went to LA for a reason that didn't really make much sense. So just talk to me about that because that was a big move. If you were very, I think when people get into radio, radio is quite hard to get into anyway.

54:27Davina McCall:You were in. I was very in. I've got a good slot. Yeah. I went to LA. I thought, right, Rebecca had lived in Malibu when she was really young. And she'd been a nanny to one of the Motley crew. Oh, my God. Wait, stop. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, my God. That is amazing. I know. Wow. And she loved Malibu. Malibu. And so we were like, oh, we want to live there. And they'd moved my Five Live show to Manchester. Yes. And I was doing half of them in London, half in Manchester, getting a train. My house was near Broadcasting House. I was like, why am I getting a train? So I just thought, I think if Five Live had not moved to Salford, I would never have gone to LA.

55:07So we just thought, well, we're going to go. And I had an idea for a talk show, a kind of interview series, and I took it to BBC America and they commissioned it. And the first episode was Ricky Gervais, who I knew because he's come on my radio show a lot. and there's a problem with my visa nothing to do with the whole Blue Peter thing but I there's a problem with my visa and I couldn't get my passport back from the embassy I couldn't fly so I quit my radio show rented my house out in London it was quite fun I rented it out to Woody Harrelson that was all quite fun and so we became friends that was always very I've had quite a cartoony life and then I then rented a house in Los Angeles and quit my job got a show commissioned that I had come up with and that was going to host, it was a multi-location interview series.

55:53For Ricky, we were going to rig a car, we were going to go to the club at New York where he did his first comedy gig in New York, we were going to go to the zoo because he loves animals. Everything was rigged and ready to go. And I couldn't fucking get there. I couldn't get my passport back from the embassy. So the whole thing collapsed. And it was so expensive when it collapsed. And Ricky was waiting for me. It was so expensive when it collapsed, they wouldn't put it back on its feet afterwards. But you didn't give up. No, I didn't give up. And I was there and I was like, oh, fucking I'm here now.

56:19And we'd rented our house out. And we got to LA. And the first morning was wonderful, actually. I was like, we were, we went to this place called Go Get Em Ty, we launched Mont Village and just felt so at home. And I thought, okay, I think we'll make this work. But I didn't have a job. And I didn't really have much of a job for the first year. And I kept flying back and doing bits and bobs. And then after, I nearly took a job at ABC News, but just stuff didn't quite come off. And I'd never, since I was 17, not really been in work, you know, I like work.

56:51Davina McCall:And how did you feel then? It felt really strange and I didn't like it. And I didn't like it. I didn't have enough to do. Like my kids started going to preschool. And I remember at one point feeling slightly jealous of them. I was like, oh, look, because you've got somewhere to go with something to do. Do you know what I mean by that? I was like, God, they've actually got a place to be at a certain time. How old were Ivy and Arthur when they moved? They were one and three, you know, so very young. I mean, Rebecca, when I said earlier, she has a mild, like, hippie quality. she took a risk as well just going for that that's a big ask for her I mean in the end we loved living in LA but at the beginning it was that first year I'd never in my life not worked before and that was strange and then eventually I remember thinking right if I haven't got a job by a certain date we're going to have to go home and then through my agents CAA I was very proud when they started representing me and I'm still with them they got me an interview for a job in New York and I got it and so we actually went lived in New York for a year.

57:48It was National Geographic and ABC. I actually did a bit of ABC News during Trump's 2016 campaign. Wow.

57:54Davina McCall:And you never looked back, right? No, well, yeah. Then I found my way back to LA where I was hosting a daytime show for Fox. But around that time, I started to think about how much I'd like to try and come up with game shows. My original idea was to try and come up with a game show for me to host. Were you slightly inspired by Chris Evans? Yeah, definitely. For sure. For sure. And then I got into a coma and out of the coma. Wait. You can't just brush over it like that. That was a big deal. Yeah. Right. That was, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about what it was like facing the idea of the possibility that you could have died.

58:38Yeah, it's a strange one, isn't it? It's more, it hits you afterwards. I had an allergic reaction to something. It's never even been that clear what it was. But I was feeling funny in LA and we got a flight home. And on the flight, I was hallucinating. I was really short of breath. And I thought everyone was trying to kill me on this airplane. And actually, there was an infection in both my lungs. It's a bit like double pneumonia, which is, of course, both your lungs are taken out. So the infection of what I now know was filling up in both lungs. So there's not enough oxygen in my brain. And so I'm like, oh, you're all trying to kill me.

59:14and the annoying thing is that when the plane came in to land it, he'd throw, the air pressure changes so it gets better, doesn't it? And that meant I felt better. So I thought I was getting better, but I wasn't. So the air pressure had come down, so I got more air into my lungs. So I thought, I'm over, whatever that was.

59:32Davina McCall:The infection's still there. But it's really still there and still growing. Yes. You know like when you're throwing up and then suddenly you feel like it's passed? It was like that. I thought, oh, it's passed. What did this thing, what did that fucking weird thing was? It's passed. they took me off the plane on a wheelchair and I went to my mother-in-law's house in Blackheath and I was really short of breath again and Rebecca's sister Kirstie was the one who was like you've got to go to hospital get to hospital so I went there I went to Lewisham and they saved my life when I checked in it's not a hotel when you get to the front desk and I did have a long stay I said I'm short of breath and it's interesting they take it really seriously.

1:00:12I was like, I got an Uber to the hospital. I was like, it's not much. Don't worry about it. But, you know, I'm short of breath. And they were like, right, you're going straight through. And I went through to a bay and they came to see me. And I remember them saying one of their specialists was away. There's a doctor called Alex. And they were like, he'd be really good at it. And I went, oh, why is he not here? And they went, oh, he's on Love Island. And I was like, oh, wait,

1:00:37Davina McCall:is that true? That's true. So their specialist doctor, Alex, was on Love Island. He's not there, he's on Love Island. Oh, my God. It's like a cartoon. Dr Alex, I mean, like, famous, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd be perfect for you, but he's on Love Island, as I'm short of breath in a bay in the hospital. But it was really serious. Yeah, so then, yeah, basically I did a chest X-ray, and they moved me to, you've got A &E, then you've obviously got ICU, which you were in ICU, right, at one point? Yes. Intensive care. But there's another stage between that. I forgot what it's called, and they took me there, and I'm on a trolley.

1:01:10things all over me done echocardiograms and stuff like that but Vic the consultant who saved my life just appeared me and Rebecca are there and I've got oxygen mask and he just appears at the end of the bed and he goes we've looked at your chest x-ray it's bad we need to put you into a coma and it's obviously a very shocking thing to hear and I was like and I thought oh I thought I thought he'd be like hours away I said well when and he said in the next 20 minutes but I honestly thought we can just do it in a couple of hours. He said, do you want to call your relatives? So I called my mum and dad and called my sisters.

1:01:46I was due to go to the Soho House Festival that night. So I emailed Nick Jones and I went, I can't make it. I went, Nick, I can't make it because I'm going into a coma.

1:01:56Davina McCall:It's quite a flex though, that, isn't it? And what I found afterwards was the gap between Vic telling me I needed to be in a coma and being in a coma was four minutes. So I'd made those calls in that time, sent the email. And then Rebecca was rubbing my feet and they, you know, they, I guess they must have injected me. But wait, Rebecca said something. Oh, she said, don't walk towards the white light. It was her line. Sweet. I love her. It's very sweet, isn't it? That is such a, because that's exactly what you'd be afraid of. Yeah. You know, if you think you're going to go, don't, don't let go.

1:02:31Davina McCall:Don't let go. There is something in that, actually. I need you to hold on. Yeah, stick around. There's something worth staying for, you know what I mean? And I think they didn't tell how bad it was. Then I nearly died that night. I mean, they very much expected me to die. Because they couldn't figure out what it was. And I remember, I actually went back to hospital some weeks later, which is how I know all this. But I was on a trolley and they were all surrounding me. And my blood oxygen went to 58. If you go below 60, you either die or get brain damage. And I'm not dead. You've not got brain damage, I can tell you that.

1:03:02Well, have I not?

1:03:04Davina McCall:your brain works at like a thousand miles an hour i can see it no but i went um i went blue they said you turn blue because you've got oxygen 50 blood oxygen 50 and i turn blue and i remember vic saying he looked at another doctor and he was going to say to her what do you call the juju you know those things yes i do um and he said i was going to ask her for it and she just nodded didn't because i was crashing he said you were crashing i didn't even need to sad looked at her and she went and then they slid it over and put it over my chest and then at the last second has gone out of it so i'd gone into the dead dead brain damage zone and uh and for some reason one of the many things they'd injected me with just started kicking in and then i didn't die but they were very but yeah they were like you were meant to die we really thought you were going to die it wasn't like you might die and rebecca yeah she was in a waiting room at that point and then but she doesn't know how bad it is and then obviously the kids don't know how bad it is um and uh yeah it was it was uh it was a lot because i think i was in the coma for nine days and on day seven i did 12 days in intensive care but god on day seven they brought me out they thought because i'd nearly died a few couple of times i'd had a tracheotomy day seven they tried to bring me out of this coma.

1:04:20And it was horrendous. Do you remember that? I remember it really well. Do you? It was horrendous. I still couldn't breathe properly. I kept losing the oxygen mask in the bed. It was a really hot summer as well. It was really hot in the room. And I just, you know, when you can't get enough air in, it's horrible. Panic. I couldn't get enough in. I couldn't do a deep breath. I couldn't do a deep breath. Even then, and it was just absolutely awful. And you're just hallucinating, but it's not nice hallucinations. there's nothing you know but they can be nice hallucinations and it was just really and I thought some reason I thought Rebecca was dead or it was all going crazy in my head and then I started kicking things I think I kicked a nurse then I was pulling pipes out my neck and alarms were going off you know and they went and they just put me in another coma yeah right okay only for two more days two more days and then by that point the infection had gone down enough right it definitely Now that I've gone into this business of having my own company and working on ideas, that was as a result of that as well.

1:05:23And I came out of the coma and I thought, I was a bit bored of this job. I was hosting this daytime show on Fox and it wasn't challenging me. And so I wanted to pursue coming up with ideas. And I think having a company has been a really interesting experience, but I do like it. And we're working on some really big projects now. Going to L.A. on Saturday to pitch five new formats. you know it's and i like having ideas makes me very happy it kind of makes me high in a way

1:05:48Davina McCall:when i think i think i've got another one when you got your adhd why did you go for an h adhd diagnosis that was my i had a i had a therapist then um who was a specialist in adhd and he was like you've got it you should go and get diagnosed so when i think we spent seven grand on the diagnosis i remember telling jimmy car god i was friends with jimmy and i said to jimmy I said oh yeah I spent£7 ,000 getting ADHD diagnosis he went you could have just used my eyes

1:06:21and saved£7 ,000

1:06:24Davina McCall:but did it help you in a way yeah definitely it helps you understand addiction it helps you understand who you are it's you know the other side to it is the hyper focusing so I notice now like this weekend I was working on an idea I like write them the initial base of it on my own at home, then I go into the office and work with everyone else. But there's a thing called hyperfocus, which is when you, it's like falling in love. It's actually like when I fell in love with Rebecca. The idea hits you and you're just aware that you're really liking thinking about it. And then you can do, you can think about the exclusion of everything.

1:07:01So for those people think that ADHD is just about a scatty attention, It comes with the opposite. And understanding that you've got that and understanding when it's happening and feeling, oh, it's happening now. Good, right, go on then. Just get your iPad out and start writing and enjoy it. And knowing I'm in that moment is really lovely. Yeah, use it.

1:07:19Davina McCall:Well, it's a superpower. It's a superpower and I'm aware of it. And that's really useful and interesting. And it's just a very big part of who I am. You've mentioned addiction a couple of times and you've talked a bit before about drinking and enjoying drinking. Which I still do. And I've given up a few times, but I haven't really. So where are you at with that now? Well, I drink. In a healthy way? Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, I've got better for sure, yeah. I've got much better. How have you got better? How has that happened? I went to see a guy. I've actually got an alcohol doctor. The Priory has a branch in Harley Street.

1:07:57And I went to see a guy there. And it's just really useful talking to him. I take some medication each day. which slightly reduces the cravings but I still drink I would still like to drink less than I do but I do drink a lot less and I don't really get in trouble anymore I think I'd like to give up one day and I do enjoy it I mean that's the reality it's like there's no point pretending I enjoy it I do I really enjoy it last night my friend came around and we just spoke for hours and hadn't seen him for a few years and you know I like it is the issue and not the issue but I do drink less and I've done AA a few times and it just It's never really connected.

1:08:34I think you know what it is? I never liked having a sponsor. I don't like it when they call me. Not because I'm trying to drink. Just because I just was like, I can't explain it, but I just found it almost a bit boring. And AA is an amazing organisation and it does fantastic work.

1:08:50Davina McCall:It does lots of work for people, but it doesn't suit everybody. It doesn't always work for everybody. That's why I think that it's quite nice to hear other people's experiences of how you did it. Like the idea that there is an alcohol doctor. yeah he's great and I go and see him every few months is it like a therapist? He's very much like this and when you talk you talk about your drinking and I can see that he's not worried about me particularly and you know I can talk to him and yeah there's this particular medication that I take that is what is it? I forgot what it's called it does this amazing thing it lowers how much the alcohol interacts with your brain so that when you it reduces the effect as well yeah so it doesn't work as well no it doesn't work as well so and that's been good And it actually protects your brain cells a bit from the alcohol.

1:09:33I mean, there's so much amazing medication out there when you go and explore.

1:09:36Davina McCall:Yeah. But look, I obviously am an addict. And I think it's for the reasons that we have discussed. But at the moment, I think my life's pretty good. I'm not in trouble, you know, and I still enjoy it. I think one of the other things that I quite liked hearing about you was that when I was using, I was young and I was obviously trying to heal a hole in my heart that was left by abandonment. I just was constantly hurting and I took drugs and it went away. Yeah, of course. And then I'd run out of the drugs and come back again. But you don't use drink for that. No. You'd use it for happiness. I do, it's interesting.

1:10:22Davina McCall:To run towards the joy. That is true. I remember a friend saying to me, oh, what is it you're running away from? And I said, I'm not running away from anything. I think I'm running towards something. I love that. It is. It's like, yeah, I think when I'm in my most danger, the danger zone for me is when I get some really good news. Yes. Not when I get really bad news. I'm sort of less interested in drinking things. I think, oh, hang on, I better stay focused. I'm unhappy. So it was the opposite. It won't take away unhappiness. It will just make me more unhappy. Or it will make me more happy. See what I mean?

1:10:53Yes. It's not a bad news thing for me. It's a good news thing.

1:10:56Davina McCall:And I think that's where you can slightly control it, I think. Yeah. So you, I mean, you've lived a huge life already. You've got a couple of great kids. You're in a wonderful marriage. You've got your own business. You've done so many different begin-agans throughout your life to get yourself to a place where you are. You feel really happy to me. Where do you want to be? Where are you going? It's a great question, Davina. I think I'm 50. I love so much coming up with ideas. So I'll keep doing that. I think at the moment we've got quite a lot going on, stuff that isn't announced but with the company, and I'm really confident about what we're doing.

1:11:42And I want to try and build this quite quickly now because a lot of it's taken a long time. I want to build this company quickly, and then I probably will do something else. I think.

1:11:51Davina McCall:What would you like that something else to be? I'm desperate to know. I don't know. I mean, even building a podcast company is quite interesting. You know, I am doing a podcast now, but I actually mean something on a much bigger scale. Something that is reactive. Something that is you put it out and you get immediate feedback. Yes. And I think after a few years of selling television formats, which is a slow process in which you're often quite powerless, I think I will probably have the need. And I don't suppose I'd particularly want to go back on the radio because I don't know, having had my own company, do I want to go and work for another company?

1:12:22Probably not. I've done that. And I like to change my life. You know, I do, you know, a TV show and then I leave it. I do a radio show and leave it. And I think I'm really enjoying having a company. I love the people I work with. I love going into the office. We've got a really nice team. We make each other laugh and we write fun, silly ideas. And it's really, and sometimes I'm in the office and we're all giggling. And, you know, the whole process of creation is, what about this? What if we did that? and I thought, God, isn't this a nice job? Exciting, fun. It's a nice job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You enjoy your life.

1:12:52Yeah. I was writing a show for Snoop Dogg last week. It's like, it's silly and fun and I work a lot with Simon Cowell now. That's really interesting. It's a privilege and it's a lovely thing. But I think when I've done a few years of this, which, as I say, is a slow process, I think I'll want, I will, my nature is to just keep changing and doing something else. I don't want to, I'll never want to think I want to do this same job until I retire or die. So it will be, I'll flip it all over again and it will be something that's quicker and more reactive. But I'll always keep changing. You know, when I went to LA, I noticed life slowed down in a good way because when you do the same thing all the time, life goes quite quickly.

1:13:31When I did a lot of radio, I would notice that I couldn't remember one year from the next. And you've made so much change and when you make change, whether you change your environment, your house, your home, your city, your job, in some cases a marriage, You know, time slows down, I think. And that's important as well. I don't want to be monotonous and it's just not who I am anyway.

1:13:51Davina McCall:I don't think you ever could be. I hope not. You can't. It's impossible. Richard, I'm coming over for a cuddle. Rebecca, I'm sorry. Don't worry. I'm married to Michael. This is a platonic hug. Oh, my God. You are fucking brilliant. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode I know you're going to love that