Sophie Ellis-Bextor: The Moment I Said Yes to Saltburn & Why I'm Happier Than Ever at 46!

0:00When the band split up, it was pretty devastating. It's over and I'm 20, but now I'm 46 and I could see salt burn sparking this whole resurgence of Murder on the Dance Floor. What does it feel like to suddenly become iconic again? As soon as I did my first gig in that band, age 16, it was like all the dots joined up. We signed a record deal, front cover of Melody Maker. Went straight from my A-levels to being on the Enemy Brat Buster. I was like, here we go. But then all the wheels fell off. I genuinely just thought there's not going to be a comeback from this, that's that. and then this song came to me and I thought it'll give me back the thing I love doing.

0:36Richard's an amazing support to you, isn't he? We just had our 20th wedding anniversary. I mean, in today's day and age, it's a massive achievement. How have you done that? We'd been dating for six weeks and then I realised I'm pregnant. I just didn't feel that great. I was getting headaches, went for a check-up and they said, you are being taken straight to a hospital that has a neonatal unit. Wow. When I was younger, I was much more inhibited. The final piece of the puzzle was getting older, losing my inhibitions and worry about who I was and what I was supposed to have achieved. I could just be myself.

1:10I really love you. Sophie. This is so nice. I know. I'm so happy to be doing this. So, first of all, I want to say congratulations on an amazing career. and, you know, five top ten singles in the UK. How many, is it six top ten albums? Something like that. I mean, like, amazing. I was just thinking I don't actually know, so I was thinking whatever you tell me, I'm not going to be able to contradict or correct because I've actually got no idea. I think that's why we all love you. Because I... You don't know. Oh, because I don't know, okay. Because I like to exaggerate, no. No, because that is really who you are.

2:03It's like you just really enjoy the ride, I think. I really enjoy the ride and from the very first start of the whole thing, particularly my solo career, everything I do I think of it as metres on the plank. I've thought of myself, I'm on the ship, there's the plank, at one point the plank will finish, I will have to fall off into the sea. But every time things work well enough, I strap on another little plank. So I'm on this very, very perilous, long, very fixed together with rope plank. But it's still there. It's still there. Isn't that mega? My balance is still there. Wibbly wobbling around the end of the plank.

2:41I remember seeing you a couple of times after salt burn. Yes. And just us both going, what? Yeah. Like, so mega. Yeah, mad. Exciting. What was that like? I want to go back to the beginning in a minute, but that was such a mega time in your life. It was, and actually it's very, it's a fitting place for us to start chatting in a lot of ways because so much of what was special about it wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had all the bits that had gone before to inform, like, to deal with success. Because actually I think when you do, you work in an industry like ours we're not very well informed on how to deal with things going right things going badly very familiar territory yeah things going well can be really can really spook you a bit or feel like something's run away with you and you're not really in ownership or in tandem with the energy that's being created or you're just not enjoying it that much and for me because I could see that what was happening with, you know, salt burn sparking this whole resurgence of a really old friend, which is Murder on the Dance Floor, a song I've always happily sung and enjoyed performing, I could really enjoy what was happening in a very pure way without asking for more, without expecting anything else to happen, but just enjoying what that was all about and knowing it's a sort of lightning strike kind of a feeling, really.

4:09So, yeah, it was good. I mean I feel like again that is one of the things that we love about you is that it felt like you just really again enjoyed the ride it was that sort of this has happened to me I'm going to take all the opportunities really enjoy it but not kind of demand anything I'm just going to realize that this is just magic exactly that and not feel greedy about it but also um I'm lucky enough to involve a lot of people so firstly um a lot of people that worked murder was it was nice that it was that song that had that that moment because that really did take me back to the beginning it was one of my first ever solo singles and happily for me i'm still working with a lot of the same people oh really yeah so there are all these proud uncles and aunties of the song as well that was was seeing what was happening with it and and excited about it and then with my work I have my husband Richard's in the band, my brother Jack's on drums.

5:08I would just involve people. So it meant that I wasn't suddenly finding myself on my own in a hotel somewhere thinking, well, this is great, but I actually wish I was at home. I was drinking all of that in as well. Some of it was taking the kids places and just, yeah, that's one big lesson for me is like involving people. I think I function a lot better and I get more out of it that way. god well when when a programmer a film or a drama decides to use your music how do they approach you how does that happen um it's a fairly dry process really get an email um so for me um because i'm one of the writers on the song you get an email which is just asking for clearance of the publishing and it provides a little form which will just give all the details but it's a little synopsis is it a synopsis of the scene actually it was so it did it doesn't sound that dry to me but I remember just being kind of amused because I thought oh naked dancing that sounds like fun that's that's something I gotta see yeah sure you know I didn't really think twice but also I could see it was Emerald Fennel directing and I thought oh she's brilliant so I was happy I felt very complimented and if nothing more had happened other than that little reach out I was I was very satisfied.

6:28It was one of the most iconic moments in television I have seen in years I mean Barry was the perfect person to do that because he brought it a gravitas but also a a dark celebration. Exactly that. It's twisted. It's twisted. But the song is so, like, perfect. For that moment, it was where music met TV, drama, at its very, very best. Well, that's what was so incredible about it, I thought. And I think there might be something in the song that lends itself to a little bit of that because the music video I did for Murder way back with my friend Sophie Miller, who director I still work with, another proud auntie, I was devious in that too.

7:26I'm an evil dance competition contestant who cheats her way to winning and gets to be celebratory at the end. It was a similar thing, actually. So it was perfect. So the song must have something. Yeah. So it soundtracks very well. Getting what you want by ill-advised means. And do you mind me asking how old you are? I'm 46. So at 46, what does it feel like to just suddenly become iconic again? Like, not that you weren't always iconic, but to a whole new audience. I think that's a beautiful thing. It's a bit like, I guess, in television. You know, I meet an 18-year-old now. They have no idea who I am.

8:12Everybody knows who you are. I don't know about that. But also, I would say, firstly, I don't mind you asking, I'm really happy to talk about my age because I like getting older. Unexpected pleasure. Yes, I sense we are kindred spirits in this way. I like it a lot. I like having more experience. I like the deep roots I have of, you know, people around me in my life. um but also with um i don't know if i think of myself in a third person perspective in terms of like what how people perceive me in the public i think if i was doing that i would have probably gone loopy like a long time ago but when you ask about the sort of you know the people engaging with it i think that was the thing that i really could recognize and and feel very is really special because especially if you make pop music disco dance music the sort of genre I'm in it's all about dialogue because you put music out hoping that someone engages with it back you know shimmy because it's often a little dance with me but that's what you're hoping for and so to see people involving my music into their world and to see people yeah younger people engaging it is really special that's yes that's not something I take lightly but I also can really see where I am at in the food chain it's all about their experience and I just happen to be the song that accompanies them and I think that's that's the beauty of doing what I do really it's special I think um what's interesting you were talking about um well when you're talking about I can see where I am in the food chain and the kind of word that just popped into my mind with you is humility and how nice that is to see in someone that's had such a fantastic successful career and I know that you'd be like well it was quite successful but it has been and it's ongoing you know you're still making that plank longer I've literally just got goosebumps talking about it because I'm so proud of you and don't forget we are friends in the making here this is like I am really and Michael I talked about you at length with Michael last today but yeah we we were like both talking about you as a as a person and why you are genuinely so likable and it's that humility and you talk about a moment when you you joined your first band and about how after three years the record deal didn't work out and how, thank God for that.

10:45Why? Firstly, I think I would have been a nightmare if everything had kept going well. That's so interesting. So what was it about that? You would have hated, I would have hated me. I would have been so annoying. I mean, yes, I think it was all a little bit, I mean, I loved it, but it was all going so smoothly until it really, all the wheels fell off. So yeah, my first band was a band called The Audience. And I was passionate about my music. And as soon as I did my first gig in that band, age 16, I was like, I found the thing I love. It was like all the dots joined up and I just, no looking back.

11:24So that was significant. But also we signed a record deal and a big flurry, front cover of Melody Maker. went straight from my A-levels to being on the Enemy Bratbust tour I was like here we go this is so great it all unfolds um so when the band split up uh firstly it was yeah it was pretty devastating all my girlfriends had gone off to uni I was left it was like 20 dropped I was thinking oh my gosh I'm gonna be this terrible person the rest of my life dines out on this bit of my life already and it's over and I'm 20 we're like I had a record deal once like I'm just I felt so sad and so broken on you know kind of sort of embarrassed and I felt like I could see like oh no I've already I've already screwed this up um but also it even though it was a hard time to go through I was very uh fortunate that it taught me a big lesson firstly that if you really want to do the thing you do you're going to want to do it come rain or shine and you won't be a fair weather singer you'll do it no matter what so I was like well I guess that's that then here I go um unfortunately I wasn't in that situation for very long because Groovejet came along and swirled me around and took me to what ends up being my solo career but but you know when you're in a moment where everything's gone wrong you could it doesn't matter if you you know hindsight proves it wasn't very long it gave me it gave me all the lessons I needed to learn even though it's probably only about 18 months.

12:58Well, 18 months, I think, at that time of your life is a long time. It feels like, I remember, you know, I've said to my kids, it's a year left, you know, of school or something, or you've only got a year with your GCSEs and then you're done. But I can see for them, it feels like forever. Yeah, and it's also, I genuinely just thought there's not going to be a comeback from this. That's that. That was my one experience of success, doing the thing that made sense to me. How did Groovejet find you? Well, that was just bizarre in a way because when I was in my band, I'd signed a publishing deal even though I didn't write any songs and I didn't understand that's what the deal was.

13:41So I just sort of have a similar attitude to contracts now, quite frankly. It's probably fine.

13:50Yeah, is this okay? Sure. Okay. So I'd signed this deal. And then when Groove Jet was looking for a top line, so it was a hit in the clubs already, but I was unaware of this because I wasn't a club kid in that way. Indie kid over here. Wasn't listening to house and dance. So this song came to me as this instrumental. And they said, they're looking for someone to sing the top line and maybe do some writing. And they thought of you. And I was actually a little bit insulted because I was like, I'm an indie singer. So why am I being sent this song? Stop playing it. A couple of weeks later was doing the unusual behavior of tidying up my flat and found this CD and put it on.

14:30I thought, actually, you know what? There's something in this I quite like. And so I said, yeah, I'll have a go. And the song just absolutely snowballed. Isn't that funny? No one will even know I did this. But for me, it will give me something. It will give me back the thing I love doing. I mean, that song set me on fire. Yay. I've got such, I mean, it changed my life. I've got a big soft spot for that song forever and interestingly as a as a diehard clubber your voice just lent something amazing to that backtrack I just thought it was really really good like it was yeah it was an absolute brilliant collab between the two of you.

15:16Did you end up going to loads of clubs to perform it? I mean, quite mad, isn't it, when you're not really a clubby person and suddenly you're in this environment. What's that like? Well, firstly, I was so naive about it that when I was being interviewed about the song, I would say, I don't like house music. And the PR for the song... Can you stop then? Yeah, to take me on to one side and say, you have to stop saying that now. Let's just be really honest. Secondly, when the song actually charted, I wasn't signed to the label, so I had no label. and my manager had also parted with me that week. He said, I wish you all the best, but I don't really understand this world.

15:53So I got over 30 ulcers on my tongue when it charted and I was really stressed out. But he said to me, can I give you one bit of advice? Don't go and sing in all the clubs because you might find yourself, that's all you do. Well, I was broke and excited and given opportunities and I sang in all of the clubs that invited me and then some. I would head out and I was just so overjoyed to be back singing and excited with the momentum I was having the song. But yeah, I'm afraid I did completely ignore that advice. But why would he say that? And what did it, I mean, I'm sure it was a benefit to you to do that and to get a broader audience and sing in front of people that might come.

16:35I think it's different now because everything is so cross culture. We don't have these lanes in the same way. But back then, you know, this was literally the year 2000. So it was very much different lanes of traffic in terms of music and where that would take you. And so I think that, yes, me jumping from doing an indie record to doing the house track now doesn't maybe seem that big a jump. But then it felt quite pronounced. Yeah. And he just said, I don't really know. I don't really get this world. but I think probably you don't want to get stuck in the clubs because you'll just be there singing in clubs for the rest of your life, which, to be honest, I would have been happy with.

17:14Yeah. But, yeah, I do take some advice, but I didn't take that one. That bit of advice. Because, like, it feels like you fell in love with dance music a bit then at that point. Yeah. Well, I traced it back because I had this amazing tour manager called JP and he'd play me Larry Levan mixes of the Paradise Garage, so taking me right back to the days of disco oh my god so he was literally like teaching you yes he'd be playing that we were driving in between these many clubs that i was apparently not supposed to be doing and um and track two on one of the cds was the share version the original take me home this seven minute glorious version yeah and so when i signed to polador i said this is the song i want to do a cover of because i'm so in love with it so yeah that was me i only really discovered disco in my 20s but wow I fell very very hard and fast for it because for me that was the root of the side of house music I liked it always comes back to storytelling and the voices and the lyrics and I just got so involved in that world and also a lot of disco has older women's voices cautionary tales you know young hearts run free is not told from a young woman's perspective it's sad it is sad it's really sad saying you know look what's going to happen to you you're I'll end up high and dry.

18:28You'll be broken hearted. Don't do what I did. Don't fall in love. But I love that, that it was an older perspective, the older wisdom. And I thought, I thought for me, that was really lovely because pop music can be so rooted in, in youth, but disco can support all those. Yes. All that heartbreak as well. I mean, it makes me think about all the brilliant elder stateswomen we've got in music. Yes. I mean, Dolly. Oh, I mean, where do we even start? Just in love with her, basically. Yeah. It's just like, but I love that you've brought that to music. Like to... Brought... Wisdom. Wisdom. Oh, yeah.

19:09I've definitely been so inspired. Yes. There's so many women that I'm very aware that there's nothing I do that is groundbreaking. There have been so many incredible women that have gone before me and beaten all the paths. Yes. So that I can twirl along them too. and um yeah I'm just it's a nice feeling I enjoy that makes me feel lifted and part of something and makes me braver which I think is a nice thing to inhabit courage yeah yeah being a bit bold that was one thing I didn't I didn't think I would find out about myself as I got older when I was younger I was much more inhibited then way more I mean if you I haven't watched anything recently but I know when I did groove jet performances I would stand completely still I was like I'm not going to dance what happens if I look stupid dancing and I'm doing a dance now I'm like I am aware of how I look dancing and I don't care don't care I love dancing the beauty of getting older yes so good yeah it's so good in all the ways yeah absolutely I yeah I love I love that very much and I've taken a lot from from conversation as well like like speaking to you you know you're so supportive and generous with that it it it builds other people up it's a lovely way to interact with the planet and with the people you happen to be sharing it with so I think I take a lot of stock from that I'm one of those people that feels the best I can be when I'm surrounded by good people I mean everybody does to a certain extent but what I mean is I can't do things in a void I need connection Food That's what it is I want to I'm fascinated by obviously I'd love to talk to you about you and Richard and your boys but something that fascinates me personally is that you were the child of famous parents.

21:15I mean, your father, perhaps people might not have known him. No, yeah, he wasn't in the public. No, but he was famous within his own world. He was well known in his own world. But your mum was mega to famous, to like everybody. I remember your mum so clearly on the television. She was weekly, you know, she was in our living rooms weekly on Blue Peter, Janet, Mega Woman. And then you have gone on to become a famous parent yourself. That is such a unique situation. There aren't that many women, I don't think, that have done that. And I'd be very... Because it's been a real worry for me as a famous mother on how will this affect my children?

21:57Yeah. How can I keep them safe? How can I not... I mean, I spent a lot of time when I was younger trying not to embarrass them. I don't care anymore. No, me neither. But... sorry kids sorry about that but I would love to hear your take because that's so unique having Janet as a mum what was life like being the child of a famous mother right um well firstly I'd say you know objectively us worrying is is a bit pointless because you have whatever family you're born into the family dynamic affects who you are so it doesn't matter yes you don't get away no there's no version but your family oh that's yes okay yeah so don't worry it's it's it's like just how it works isn't it um and sorry that's actually kind of brilliant like if i was famous or not yeah the family be free if from that worry because like your family dynamic is 100 % what affects you you know when you sit like you're like oh my god that is literally the first time i've thought about that oh that is mega yeah god thank you well no not at all and It doesn't matter whether you're famous or not or who you are, your family dynamic will be affected.

23:09Yes. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I'm going to be thinking about that tonight. That's brilliant. Thank you. Wow. Okay. Yes. Yes. And also, I realized as soon as you started talking about my parents, I started smiling a lot because I'm very close to my parents. And with my mum, geographically, we live about 10 minutes away from each other. The dream. because I really hope some of my kids do that with me, please. They will. They definitely will. Or I'm going to them. No, I reckon you have a similar vibe too with your kids. I bet there's my mum had with me, which is like the same way. I'm going to do it, by the way.

23:46Strong matriarch vibes of just stay close, get in touch, keep communicating with each other, check in. It's so important. So, yes, I see my mum. Sometimes I'll be walking the kids to school and the bit of park we walk through, I'll see my mum walking her dog. So it's all pretty wholesome. one we see we bump into grandma quite a lot oh and um that's so nice yes I love it yes oh yeah yeah so I love that and I think with my oh look I mean it would be I can see that there must be some seeds that were sown from what my mum did that somehow worked into what I was going to do for sure what was what sort of seeds one of them's really embarrassing but um this is really not going to be good like I'm sorry I can't wait no go on tell me um well I would love to say it was all to do with work ethic but I just remember when I was I think it must have been my seventh birthday and we went to Madame Tussauds and because my mum was on Peter we got to go straight in the front and I think I was a bit like that's pretty cool and I do appreciate it does not fit I was seven.

24:56That's like high currency when you're small. So that's probably a little seed there, isn't it? But I also... I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, yeah. How does this work? I was trying to think what my kids... What? Sorry, how does that work? That is cool. I think it was cool. What would your kids think was cool about you now? What have you done for them where they'd go, oh, this is ace? Oh. it's quite an interesting i'm trying to think of anything that i've done for my kids which they would think was mega because i don't take them to anything right i would think at some point it's been quite i've been quite good trips yeah abroad like when you're doing gigs yes so last year um i got invited to sing for mardi gras and bondi beach in sydney like brilliant and i'd been away a lot a little bit already by that point in the year february and i took jesse who was then eight and we were only there for four days and they flew us their business class and so jesse gets on the plane before we've been taken off and he was pressing all the buttons and he went hold on a minute was this expensive these tickets and i said yes jesse very and he went it's worth it i was like oh no how's he gonna this is a long way down isn't it from like a business class flight to Australia.

26:16He was so happy. He was a great traveling companion. He was like Tom Hanks in Big when he's pressing all the buttons in the car. Isn't it special when you've got five kids, you've got five boys and you can go away with one. I love it. Isn't that amazing? There's not enough time in the year really to take them all away. But I think as you get older and you aren't working nonstop. I took one of my kids away on their own for a week last uh this year yeah this year in april holly my oldest yeah and it was a joy that is really nice i actually think because my kids are still quite little that is actually one of the biggest privileges of having such amazing support because i've got brilliant support with people who help me look after the kids when i'm working but it also means i can sometimes do things with them one-on-one and i actually think that is that's invaluable being able to do that if you've got you know lots of children um what were you talking about my mom so the other seeds i mean yeah my mom absolutely loves what she did so she uh adored presenting blue peter and blue peter was it's very strange for me to even talk about it now because it's almost i think of it like a sibling which sounds really odd and maybe a little sad no you shared your life with it i did but particular bit of my childhood because my mom was presenting the show while she was a single mother so I would spend most of my time with her I'd go to my dad every other weekend and she finished the show when she was having my brother so this chapter it was like my yeah the sibling I had during that time when it was a lot of time just me and her and I think yeah I could see how much they love what they did I like the fact that it opened my eyes to having a job that wasn't a traditional job so when the opportunity came to go on tour with my band And my parents, even though it was a slightly different world to theirs in music, that suited me too because it felt like my thing.

28:11But I also didn't have any sort of dreamy world around it. I could see the sort of nuts and bolts of what I do. The reality of it. Reality, exactly. And I think that's a privilege too because it had been around me so I could think in those terms. And I am aware that, you know, it's funny because when you're young and starting out, you don't want to think anything's been easier for you because it's hard for everybody when you're out. But looking back, I'm like, wow, I had so many aces in my pack in terms of, you know, growing up in London, a time when people from record companies would go out and actually go and watch gigs.

28:47And I mean, all these privileging is on my desk, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And the fact that my, this is actually probably the biggest one, because my parents worked in a similar field, they never, and my family haven't, they never became my fans, which sounds like a really odd statement. But it can really shift things. And they never were starstruck by any element of anything I got up to, which meant I had such a solid home base, such a grounding. yes they didn't it was lovely if I'd enjoyed the things I was getting up to but really they always wanted to check in how was I feeling about emotionally how what was going on at home how was my relationship at the time um was everything in order for you know could I pay my rent all those sorts of things it was quite practical and emotionally led and not you sold how many units you're going to this country that was at the end of the conversation so that was a benefit to it is so interesting because i had never thought about that that if you become famous your parents sort of become fans and how nice it would be to have somebody yes or at least a bit starstruck yeah whole thing yeah it's unfamiliar you know they might not know yeah what they're entitled to yeah they're entitled to help you so those things can those things help me for sure and the all the kind of things that I was saying about you at the beginning about being just down to earth and normal I see you as kind of a humble a humble superstar wow no but that's how I see you like you are really well known everybody knows who you are but you are you've got your feet on the ground and that now that makes real sense you saying that I am I can completely understand that they would know exactly what you needed yeah and janet would know this is what i could have done with yeah i'm gonna let me give this to sophie yeah and she's still in that role now is she yeah yeah yeah i'm very i'm lucky i do have a lot of people that give me lots of support um so nothing i do is is happening on it's on its own really as the support from every direction including Richard of course.

31:02This episode is brought to you in partnership with our friends at Airbnb. Right I've got a little trip coming up with Michael just the two of us a bit of sun a bit of time by the pool no one asking what's for dinner my idea of heaven but while we're away our house is just gonna sit there basically doing nothing legs up watching telly. Meanwhile I've got friends who've been hosting on Airbnb anytime they go away so when they come back all tanned and gorgeous, their house has earned them a bit of extra money for their next trip. So I was thinking about it too, right? I mean, the absolute best bit is that I could make my place available just for when it suits us.

31:43Because my diary is actually mad. It's an ongoing game of Jenga. It's always tricky. So while I'm off eating crisps in a bikini, our house could actually be doing something useful for once. If you're also curious about it, why don't you give it a go? Your home might be worth more than you think. You can find out how much at airbnb.co.uk slash host. You are never too old to learn something new. I used to be so terrified of tech, but I started using Adobe Express, which is the quick and easy create anything app. And it's one of our sponsors too. And I use it to tell my story my way. It's about impact.

32:20Davina? Yes? Did you mean to export this poster of Michael to such a large size? Yes. As I was saying, it's never been easier to bring your ideas to life. Yes. Just checking, these stickers that say really to write, they're also for you too? Yes, those are for me. Merchandising is an important revenue stream. I work with Stephen Bartlett. You know, I'm an entrepreneur. Look, whatever your business, side hustle or random, oh, I've got an idea moment is, Adobe Express gives you everything that you need to design it, share it and make it real. So head to adobe.ly slash Davina to get started. Did she really use the generative AI?

33:10Did she turn back at some DJs? She loves Adobe. I want to stay on being a mother because, you know, you then went on to become a mother and you were famous. and then funnily enough in in 2021 you know with kitchen disco that happened again i mean you begin again and begin again and begin again well i've often got things that if if sophie ellison beckster had been three different people we would have split up so long ago we'd be on our like fourth fifth reunion to her by now like crosby stills and that sophie ellison beckster yeah i've had no opportunity to split up no for what I go but it's but it's amazing um I thought I thought in lockdown the really interesting thing was that the nation became broadcasters yes quite a few people yeah were just starting their own thing I remember thinking wow like no telly yeah what's gonna happen what are we gonna do and Michael and I were split so I we weren't living together and so he went off to live up in Hertfordshire and I was living in Sussex.

34:24In fact, at that point I was in Kent. So we were a long way from each other. I didn't realize that. But he obviously is a hairstylist and he did lives every day telling people what to do with their hair, how to cut their hair, how to cut their children's hair, how do you colour your hair, how do you look after it, giving people tips and hints because they couldn't get to the hairdressers. And you did something similar, like let off some steam. Yeah. Do this with your kids. Yeah. Let's have a party together. But it was also a really wonderful insight into you and your relationship with your kids, your home.

35:03Like it was, there were so many things to get out there, but it was one of my favorite things about lockdown was you dancing. Like it was just amazing. but you didn't I bet you didn't think that when you started it no well I actually finished the first one saying I think that's the end of my career because I felt like yes like literally so funny because I felt like maybe um I wasn't sure if we were reading the room right I knew what I felt like I needed but um yes I see what you're saying like I didn't know if yeah are people really struggling and are they going to think how frivolous you know what it was the Yeah, and actually it was Richard's idea to do the first one.

35:46He said, oh, because I was feeling really restless, discombobulated, missing people, missing music, performing. It was such a heavy time. And he said, why don't we live stream, like you do, singing a party set. And I said, that is a crazy idea, but I haven't got anything else I'm doing. So, yes. So, we did the first one and I sort of waited. you know, to see what the reaction was. Like that. Like, oh no, everybody's going to say, what are you doing? But then all these lovely, lovely messages were coming and I thought, oh, this is actually okay. It's okay. And it's funny because obviously I do sing for a living, but the kitchen disco was very much about my relationship with music and people.

36:34It wasn't really about the day job at all. It was about needing to invite people over, as you say, that catharsis a little bit of escape um just change the tone just for a minute just 20 minutes half an hour of being a bit silly getting together I would have you know my friends and family I knew were watching so they could see the kids you know my youngest was a baby it was one so the the grandparents could all see the grandbabies and what they were up to that week and see them happy see them happy see us being silly and it really worked I I liken it to um it was like having a a non-alcoholic drink when that bit where your brain reads it as giving you a bit of an upper even though really we hadn't seen anyone we hadn't gone anywhere there had been no party there had been no gig I would tidy up the house afterwards and I'd half expect to find some remnants of people yes yeah it was a very strange time but it was so pure I would cry all the time as well If I sang a song that was a bit more sad, I would cry because all my emotions were so close to the surface all the time.

37:40Like everybody. Just felt quite sort of unarmoured, I think. Do you know, for me, it's quite nice to hear you say that because I've met quite a lot of people who loved lockdown. Yeah, me too. And who loved the isolation and the, I cried all the time. Yeah, I found it really tough. I found it cruel. I found the cruelty of thinking seeing people you love might mean they get very very sick and they might die that was so heavy to me but you know everybody had their own stories of what was happening and some people have experienced extraordinary pain as well so whilst I did lose my stepdad during that time which was awful at least at least we were allowed to have a funeral together when we did and we're all none of us were traveling we were all together we could support one another so i'm actually grateful to to have us having that time together as well but yeah you know if people found that good aspects i'm really happy about that of course we found some good aspects too i loved being with the kids all that time yes um but i haven't lost sight i i didn't need a global pandemic to teach me what mattered to me i already knew that so it's just a matter of us getting through it really.

39:00Richard's an amazing support to you, isn't he? He's like, yeah, he really is incredible. We just had our 20th wedding anniversary. So I guess now we can start talking about it in a bit more of a like, we have been married like a properly long time. That is a properly long time. I know. Can I just tell us, how old were you when you met? I think I was just 22. Because when we first met, he was auditioning to be in my band. and so I walked into a rehearsal room and met him there and the first thing I said to him was nice amp which I find baffling to this day. I never complimented an amp in my life.