Tulisa: I Was Set Up by the Media, Here’s the Truth!

0:00Life gets messy and when it all falls apart, you've got to try and just find your way through it. It's a big worldwide company. The Emmy, we have a Hollywood producer that's interested in you for a role. There's three million quid sat there for you, but I find out it's a set up. I have just had the most extraordinary conversation with Talisa from Ndubs. She has shared with me exactly what happened in the sting operation that devastated, decimated her entire world. We talked about facing a future that you didn't choose, finding a way to rebuild it even when it feels like there really is no light the end of the tunnel if you want something in this life you must go out and get it she talks about how she grafted her way to the top from the age of just 11 felt like there was a point where just every kid in the country knew who he was love us or hate us and even one over Simon Cowell I loved this conversation it was a really good reminder that hitting rock bottom doesn't mean the end sometimes it's just the beginning of something even better.

1:06So Talisa, I like you because we can call you by one name. Like Talisa, everybody knows who that is. I mean, I don't know if you've tried to ever pronounce my second name. I have. That's why I'm just calling you Talisa. But Talisa is recognisable enough. Yeah. I guess that's an unusual name as well. So that's why you could probably use it on yeah and you know you have done a lot in your life but two platinum albums two gold albums countless mobos what seven mobos seven mobos seven mobos three platinums three platinums one double made making four one double um might as well get it in there yeah well i mean please You know, because, but it's not just that you have lived a life.

1:59It has been quite extraordinary. And it is a real pleasure. Thank you. To have you here. I've got like goosebumps. It's a pleasure meeting you. I've like grown up watching you and I'm very much an energy person. I've always, whenever I've seen you on TV, I've just been so drawn to your energy. You just literally feel like a ball of light, a ball of love and light to me. So when they said I was going to be doing this, I was like, oh, my God, was like, to me, it was like, icon, epic. So, yeah, I'm really, really happy to be here and grateful. Thank you. I'm really grateful for that, actually, because I do understand that when you have had a big life with lots of ups and downs, it's quite hard to feel in a place where you feel safe enough to talk about it.

2:51Takes a while. I just want to say thank you for trusting us. Me. I trust you. Yeah.

2:59So we're here to celebrate a book that you've got coming out. Yeah. And it's out now. Yeah. And it's called Judgment. I'm going to just hold it up so people can see. Bigger Hill. Love, Trials and Tribulations. Yeah. And I love this picture on the back. Yeah. Of you handcuffed. And I want to basically paint a picture of who you were before this happened to you. Yeah. And because basically you had an epic beginning to your career. Wherever you listen, make sure you follow the show. I mean, if we deserve five stars, that's what we'd love. I mean, I think we do, don't we? so tell me a little bit about how old you were when you and dappy started kind of coming up with music and i mean because he was your cousin yeah he was he's actually more like my brother because i was an only child um and so like our two mums would always bring each other around each other's houses every day so he was like my my bro growing up um and then when we were 11 years old we got in the studio together 11 11 I love that I need to show you a picture later because someone posted on Instagram a picture of us like at the age of 11 years old in the studio and I was like oh my god 11 years old um and Faisa yeah he was his best mate from the age of eight years old yeah they met in karate lessons I know and it was it was just magic when the three of us even like the first time we all did what we do individually even like phaser as a producer i listen back now to the little beats that he was making as an 11 year old and i'm like fascinated i'm like the magic was always there um and we grafted and we perfected our craft we would bunk off school to go and spend time and hours in the studio and to practice writing music to practice making music and we were doing it all in-house with the guidance of my Uncle B, Daffy's dad, and my dad in the studio.

5:08Because they were both musicians in their own right, right? Yeah, and it was their studio. That's why we had access to a studio, thank God. But yeah, we spent a lot of time growing and also becoming individuals and finding our place in the group. But it didn't actually kick off until we were at the age of 17 years old. In a way, that's a blessing, right? Because when you look at other people who are child stars, it's, I mean, even though 17 is not still young, it's not massively grown up, but 11 is, yeah, is so young. I wanted to ask you a bit about, I don't want to go into depth about your family, but your mum wasn't well.

5:50Yeah. And you ended up actually kind of being her carer. So you're doing that and doing music. Yeah. my mom has had schizoaffective disorder from the day I was born from before her mental health started um but when she had me it just kind of sent it into overload um schizoaffective is a combination of like schizophrenia and bipolar they had misdiagnosed her funny enough up until the age of till I was about 17 so they were always giving her the wrong medication and they were only treating her for the bipolar so she was constantly having episodes you know like every year and a half and then at the time the whole thing drags out she gets hospitalized she has to recover it's like another year like out of her life and you know of our life as mom and daughter um it was very intense very intense uh childhood but I've learned a lot from it and it gave me a lot of life skills from a young age life skills did you get from that gave me independence it gave gave me the kick that nothing is handed to you.

6:58If you want something in this life, you must go out and get it. In a sad way, you can say it made me less reliable on people, but that is also a positive because when you have that high level of independence and you can go out there and get in, you're used to doing things on your own. It's like, I don't need anything. I don't need a handout. I can do it. It gives you more drive, I suppose, and more of a kick to get to where you want to go. But there's obviously a bit of an emptiness to that as well. Do you know how I describe it, that feeling you're talking about, is you were an island? An island?

7:35Do you know what? I've never heard it explained like that before and it makes so much sense. On your own? Yeah, I get that. Surrounded by people? Yeah, but on your own. Sometimes not even knowing they're there. I get that. it's funny isn't it how these difficult things can make you in a way yeah but there is no denying that it that it breaks you on the way yeah I mean I think a mother in particular I'm always fascinated I don't know what you're like on um Mother's Day I always find Mother's Day fascinating because I didn't really have a relationship with my mother well not the same kind of relationship as you would yeah Yeah, me too.

8:19Yeah. So it kind of becomes just like a passing day to me. I have a weird, I feel like I had a weird relationship with both of my parents in the sense of it was like a love there because it's family, but it didn't feel conventional. Like when I looked at my friends and they'd be like, mom and dad, and you have a problem and they ring mom and dad. I didn't have that. I always kind of felt like my own entity. And then these are my parents. But like you said, like an island. You were Formantera and they were Ibiza. They were the big island over here. Yeah. But you were just like the little one down here on your own.

9:03Literally. Did you kind of adopt anybody as parental figures? Was there anybody that had kind of a really positive influence over you in your childhood? um my uncle b did daffy's dad but it was very um he was kind of more of a mate it was an unusual relationship in the sense of he was very there for me um and when it comes to handouts i feel like he's the only person that ever kind of really gave me that one like oh crap and with me it always feels like oh i owe you something yeah um because he put so much into end ups and getting us to where we wanted to go but and in a way that was work though wasn't it yeah yeah agreed um but yeah he was he was a friend but very honest very very honest very straight down the line like he didn't mollycoddle me he knew that I was in a crap situation in life and he was almost a little bit tougher on me because of it in a sense of he could see where things were going for me and he was very much the type of pull it together you need to be strong you know don't wallow that this is my situation I'm gonna deal with it because if you get lost in the depression of it you get lost in the nonsense and woe me you know you're gonna you're gonna fall apart um use this utilize this uh and he'd always say the reason that I'm tougher on you than I am on Dappy and Phaser is because I feel like he always knew he was gonna die and he would say one day I'm not gonna be here and because of all your life experience you're going to be the one that is the drive and takes over the business and does everything that they need to do and I'm not going to be here to do that for you so I need to be tough on you so you get it and you get to that place but it's worked it's definitely worked to me like my even the way that I deal with my myself and my own psychology very tough love on myself funny enough with the people I love extremely gentle extremely empathetic when it comes to my own crap I'm like get it together no room for weakness I haven't of course I have the weakness but I'm always battling against it with that thought so he was super helpful actually yeah 100 so I mean it's hard as a guy his age looking down at me to make that decision to be like I'm going to be tough on her and to know it was the right thing to do because what do you do in that situation um but obviously very wise man he got it right so how old were you when he was kind of beginning to be a bit tougher on you um I'd say like early teens like 14 up until and then he passed when I was 18 I mean what was life like for your friends and what was life like for a 14 year old in those days where were where was everybody else going with their lives um god I mean I'd started transitioning with my friend group initially growing up all my friends had these they were really normal lives and happy childhoods and really loving and supporting parents and then when I hit 14 I started being drawn to people more like myself you know slightly more troubled upbringings I had the same experiences and I kind of bundled together with a group of misfits you know that all every parent had their issues and life wasn't necessarily easy and by that point so at that age I kind of joined the oddballs and did that help in a way with I mean I always think like end dubs were brilliant because they were edgy and the lyrics spoke to a generation storytelling yeah was that part of that journey there's this the storytelling or the the journey with the the storytelling yeah i mean we were just expressing ourselves yeah that's all we did it was all very authentic no one told us what to write every song you've heard from end of it was written by us and it was based off a real life experience you know at some point um and I think that's why we connected on such a big scale with that generation because people just got it like it was relatable and we would we'd speak our truth and speak our songs like you'd write out a text message or you know have a conversation and we do that through music I mean how big did it get like what was it like going out on the town when you were 17 18 19 I mean it just got it did get really really huge I felt like there was a point where just every kid in the country you know knew who he was love us or hate us you know we were kind of marmite maybe sometimes appealed to a certain class but then even even that changed um it went it went big I can remember you know wanting that success all of my life and then our first you know really successful performances or our first arena tour and like 20 ,000 kids screaming at us like you know we were just in b-watt and I remember just being mind blown mind blown by it what did what does it feel like coming off were you elated were you when you say overwhelmed was there ever a time where you thought oh my god actually stop for a moment I just want to get off.

14:40X-Factor that's the first time I experienced that feeling. So how old were you when that happened and how did that happen? I was 22 years old when I stopped at X-Factor. I know everyone forgets how old I was mental 22 I look at 22 years now and I'm like I was doing what then? I've got I've got a daughter 21 and 23 I can't when I think about yeah someone their age yeah madness mental um and again not not as close you know with my family so it's just me lone wolf i'm out here doing it um and uh at first i was i was good i was living the dream because this is what i wanted i wanted to be the best of the best and that for me was the best position in the uk but how did you did simon cowell get in touch with you had you met him at a party like what's the show the show got in touch with me one of the producers had seen me on bnn dubs and gone oh what a character and i think they had a list of 100 people they'd met all the 100 people and i was right at the bottom of the list and they picked to judge but they were not 100 % happy and that producer beth the name was a female she was like were you just pleased like she was the only one that was kind of into it meet this girl like just one meeting what's the harm um and I went for this meeting and while I was in the meeting they were like are you free to fly to LA tomorrow to meet Simon and I was like yeah I always played it very nonchalant you know two corporate school like you need me that was my energy and I was like yeah I'm free I'll make it work and um they jetted me off and before I knew I was in Simon Cowell's house can I just ask you something so while you're being nonchalant 22 year old underneath are you going holy shit underneath i'm going this is the biggest opportunity of my life but i was so delulu in my manifestations i had manifested the job i was like i'm going to be an x-factor judge i don't know how it's going to happen but i'm going to get that job one day and that was that from watching the show and just going i was like i'm going to get it and so when i was how many years after saying that in your head were you doing it not long it was in the space of like like two years that it happened.

16:55So when I was sat there like, yep, this is all meant to be. I'm going to get this. I'm going to do it. I've got this. So you fly to Simon Cowell. Yeah. Okay. Spill the dirt. Spill the beans. Dish the dirt. No dirt other than... Dish the dirt? Dish the dirt. Dish the dirt. And spill the beans. No dirt other than we established we were both chainswakers at the time. Tanisha. I know, I know. I went in there with a a t-shirt that I made with his face on it and I put the male boss on it and I was like here I was like I'm gonna get your present wait you had it made? yeah a one off? yeah yeah well well done have a business hat on because I only like ballsy women oh my god and you are that yeah so I was like okay I'm gonna work on that so yeah gave him the t-shirt and he's you know smoking away so I looked at him and went oh you smoking here don't mind do you pulled out my own and I basically said to him Simon I was like now you know you and Cheryl have gone to America you're going to need someone to be Mr.

18:06Nasty and say the truth this is bad this is rubbish and you're also going to need someone that taps into their emotions like Cheryl does you know and cry when it's emotional and you've not got that right now you're going to need me you need me for this job i bet he loved that i bet he absolutely loved it right you don't hire me you're making a very big mistake did you really he shook my hand on the spot and said right i'll get the contracts over so i've got literally goosebumps non-stop talking to you because like i want to say something to you go for it because if you were my kid and I'm saying it because the reason why I'm crying is because I'm a bit sad that I don't think you got this from a parent like I'm so proud of you oh thank you that's like give me a smoke it's so mega oh honestly it is it's a mega mega moment I know I was like when I reach out I was like I was like in my 30s when I met Simon Cowell and I was petrified like yeah he's such a power yeah he's such a force yeah and um you were like I know I know it's mad I did that at 22 it's fantastic it is when you say it like that I look back and I'm like so so that changed your whole life like you were not just a kind of niche like cool young people's like music act but then you were suddenly Saturday night everybody sat on the sofa and everyone knows your name yeah wild transition so were you in a good place then making lots of money yeah were you a saver were you sensible I was definitely a saver yeah compared to most of the people around me but I liked a nice house and I like cars um but other than that I wasn't to spend on like I wasn't out buying louis vuitton bags no designer clothes wasn't interested jewelry um but I always liked a nice nice sports car and just because I'm trying to set up the scene before you know your life implodes that um did you have a mortgage well actually before my life imploded I was going for the dream house thinking I've got this you know I've got this job I've got all these other massive brand deals and I put down like half a million quid deposit on this house um but I was hadn't completed yet so I was due to complete yeah in the next couple of months and because the sting hit the way the contract worked I lost my half a million pound deposit and my house

21:11if I'd have just completed it but I couldn't complete now because I didn't have the money to pay the mortgage because all my brand in deals and endorsements was frozen instantly and then I knew I had a million quid in legal bills so I was like all right and then no future income and you know what the weird thing was when I was in that house let me tell you something I always get a sense for things I was like this is not mine I had this overwhelming feeling like I've got all this stuff and I'm going to lose it I'm going to lose it this is not my home all of this it's like I knew I had this weird sense that I was going to lose everything Do you think that's sometimes though what we think because I know energy 100 % in a lot of circumstances but this what happened with the child was was something else I feel like it was um there are some things that we can create and kind of lead on and there are some things that are written on the wall this episode is in partnership with Airbnb got any plans this weekend Davina I actually have I'm going to a beta I know again um I'm going to do the beach clubs I'm going to do a bit of swimming, dancing, laughing, possibly pulling a muscle or two.

22:35And you know what? We're actually hosting our place on Airbnb while we're away, which also means our weekend getaway fund is completely sorted. Airbnb is so good like that because it is super flexible. It doesn't matter about my different jobs and my always forever changing schedule. It just works entirely around it and now whenever I'm away and my place is sitting empty I can just make a bit of extra pocket money on the side hosting with Airbnb your home might be worth more than you think find out how much at airbnb.co.uk slash host so I'm gonna I'm gonna touch on something I know I don't want to talk about it too much now I know it's a subject that you don't really like going into great depth about but because it happened so close to the sting yeah and because you were riding so high at this point dream job yeah on x factor amazing career in music yeah selling out tens of thousands of arenas like people in arenas triple platinum albums i mean unbelievable yeah and um an ex-boyfriend of yours did the unthinkable thing and he published a sex tape of you guys when you were together in love and charged people money for it.

24:13Now, the reason why I feel so strongly about this now as being such an important thing, and I understand why you wouldn't, because it's horrible. It's dirty and it's hard. But what I want to explain to people now is the way that people thought about those kind of things back in that day, because nowadays people would, you're the victim, you're the victim. But back then... I was the... It's my fault. Yes. I'm the whore. Yes. This is not... Again, I'm so angry. I know. I can't even tap into it. I've had to let go of my anger a bit because it's like too much. Did people think that you had purposefully released it to further your career?

24:58That is why I seed him. Because he had said, it's nothing to do with me. She's done it. She's released it on top of doing it. So I was like, I knew he didn't have any money. Well, actually, I found out later that he did, but he did it well off the back of the tape. And yeah, it was just. But you so you had to sue him to prove to the nation that you hadn't released it to further your career. Yeah, exactly that. And when he got to the point where he was like, I'm, you know, getting dragged through court proceedings and haven't spent too much money. He then just eventually admitted it and said, OK, it was me.

25:34and put his hands up and also I just want to talk to you about the fact that in those days because it was different to how it is now in those days even though you win a court case because in my head I didn't get anything out of it I just got him admitting it but also papers didn't cover stuff like that they don't cover where you win something yeah or somebody they realise that they were wrong and you didn't do that that doesn't serve their purpose that doesn't serve their rhetoric their story well I find that with yeah with the stories that they do and then if there's you know a turnaround or they find out other information the apologies that you get this small at the back of a newspaper I've done it like so many times and I'm like well the damage is done no one's reading that no one cares it was front page when you wrote it so that at the back It doesn't do much.

26:35I think that was the reason why they used to do these big stings. It didn't matter if it was the truth, really. Even if the truth came out, it would be page five. Yeah. It's just selling leaves. Mad world. So that happened. And you were on The X Factor when that happened. Yeah. And in Ndubs. Did it affect your career in the way that you thought that it would? did it have a catastrophic effect on your career so two things happened one thing that happened was coming out of end of's going on x-factor I could have leaned towards the more family orientated polished image which for me that is something that I wanted wanted to lean towards and now that was out the window but it then catapulted me as this controversial star so I was still getting branding deals but then certain types and other brands wouldn't want to touch me so then I was just in a position where I had to just own it but that was the catalyst for my major depression.

27:58Tell me what happened. It just, I think I'd based my whole life on becoming, getting to that point that I was just before it happened. It was like the dream. And if I could do this, like my whole life would change and everything was going to be all right. And that thought got me through the depression as a kid and all the anxiety. So I'd worked my whole life for this moment. And in 0.5 seconds, the rug was just swept out. from underneath me and I knew in my heart nothing was ever gonna feel the same again in terms of public image and perception it was like okay I'm I'm tarnished now um and it just sent me on a spiral and then I began relating it to the show I I hated my job then I didn't want I finally got my dream job and then I didn't want to do it anymore because I was like if I wasn't on this show this probably wouldn't have happened he might have not wanted to sell it because he wouldn't have thought he's going to make that much out of it and then it was also the platform from the wolves to come at me every night and every Saturday night and it's live and Twitter and this and that and you look like this so this is interesting actually because again And I think that we don't discuss enough what the barrage is like online when it happens.

29:31And that people are always like, well, you wanted to be famous. Like you've got to put up with it. But very few people really understand what it's like unless you're in the business. yeah what kind of you know you said the wolves would come every Saturday night what do you mean by that and what was it like well if you're going through this massive scandal publicly every time you're in public and in a public place that's the time that people have something to say because you're kind of being rammed down their throats so rather than you kind of going into hiding and things slowly finding a way or time to heal I was having to do Saturday night live television every week and then I've got you know half the country hating me and then it just makes them hate me even more so it was just a very intense very overwhelming experience um I was done by that point after the tape I was done I was like it's like I don't want to do this anymore all of this just made you so famous the tape but not the right thing not the right famous right no um not the famous I wanted to be anyway what was what was interesting was that your career was not finished no by it and in a way these papers um in those days because I do think they've got much better But in those days, they used to decide, well, that person looks quite bulletproof.

31:07Yeah. Right. And I heard that like from the inside that a lot of members of the press were doing that. Like she's taking down a peg or two. I've had that where they decided. And I've seen a journalist on the Jade Goody documentary talking about it was her time. Yeah. And it felt like that's what they decided with you. yeah so it was also the cockiness though like after the the tape dropped instead of holding my head down in shame like i should have at the time i like released a video saying listen i was in i'm not the bad guy here like i am the victim and then while i was sat there and the whole country was talking about me calling me a whore i was like fuck this utilize this i'm in every newspaper drop the single three months early do it now give them something else to talk about other than that tape because I cannot have this being the talk of the town for the next three months drop the single the label like Talisa we don't know if I wasn't drop the single now the video is shot release young which then went to number one so it was that now I'm this I've catapulted but it's this controversial when that's uncle b isn't it yeah oh 100 % In retrospect, looking back Are you pleased you did that?

32:28Yeah I'll always be a woman that stands on business And owns my shit, excuse my French Always I knew I was the victim Why should I? Did the public perception change When you did release that big Massively Overnight Overnight But it made you all of this made you a target for a massive sting it's what judgment is all about um this absolutely i obviously i remember it at the time i remember it coming up i did not know all of the details i also um because i didn't really ever really read about it and we'll go into this I had no idea that you didn't do drugs yeah you know initially insanity of it they I felt like initially they tried to get me for doing coke they just assumed that you did which I get with my energy and the party girl and the Ibiza girl and then when they realized that I didn't that's when they had to transition this thing into something else so how just paint the picture of like the efforts that the paper had gone to to set up the sting like how many people roughly were working on it how much did it cost i was told it was in the region of like 300 grand this is like information from the inside afterwards on 300 yeah i can't say that that's you know bulletproof this is just from insiders coming to me from press they couldn't let it drop they couldn't let yeah and i heard as well that they'd it was initially assuming that i did coke and then them going, we spent too much now.

34:10We've got to get her. But there must have been, oh God, there were at least eight actors, hired actors, playing producers, directors, lawyers, assistants, I think even accountants at one point, fake contracts, discussions of like, they tried to get me during the sting for offshore bank accounts saying, this is where we're going to transfer you the three million quid we're going to pay you, but you need to set up this account. And my accountant was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not doing that. It's just like a sting within sting. So they tried to get you to do something illegal that you'd never done before, but thank goodness your accountant.

34:56Yeah, it was like, no, we don't do all that offshore business. So how did they approach you? What was the kind of, what was the promise? um i got a i don't know how they did it like they must have like paid off someone in this big big uh company worldwide and they got someone to go on the twitter account the verified twitter account and dm me saying talisa we have a bollywood slash hollywood producer that's interested in you for a role so it's like solid a dm from a verified account saying that they wanted to talk to you about a part and then when did you start did you start writing this diary that so judgment basically in the in this book yeah there's lots of amazing kind of diary entries that you wrote at the time.

36:03So it was initially, it started off as diary entries. And then what happened is I would go on these tangents. I was always like a big story writer as a kid. And I would switch from diary entries to novel form. So I'd write it as it's happening, like a story for a first person narrative. And then as I would really start enjoying these bits, I decided to transform the whole book so it was no longer diary entries and make it into a novel about that year of my life from the first person narrative. So if you didn't know who Talisa was and you were reading it, you just think, oh, this is a great story, rather than autobiography.

36:38But it's the truth. But it's the truth written in story format. So clever. Yeah. Well, I did think, you know, business-wise as well, I was like, no one's done that before. No one's done that. And then I had, like, romance come in at the time. So I was like, oh, Sex and the City on a drugs charge. epic but at the time at the time at the beginning you were thinking oh wow yeah young girl singer dream job comes yeah this is going to be epic an epic tale of her getting her dream yeah job in hollywood yeah i mean the first so like the first chapter is more about the facts because i didn't start writing until i found out it was a setup yes so if i'm doing it in story form I have to write it moment to moment and the sting had gone and passed so I can't go down to precision in terms of being in the room and feeling it out so the first chapter is more factual like this is you know sounds like more like a biography like I've come to this point I think I'm getting this movie role and it brings you up until the point where I find out it's a setup yes and then the story format yes begins and that's when it turns into a novel So in your In your experience when you were in it

37:56When did you Start thinking Well this is a bit odd Because was it quite a way before The story came out When they started sort of saying Do you think you could get us some coke This is Hollywood Like you know the drill Everyone's, a lot of Hollywood's on something You know I know loads of people in the industry but do cocaine even when I wasn't doing it and it was very even though people tried to you know hide it from me when they find out you don't do it it's like okay like do you want some oh no okay I'll go and do over there but it was a thing like I wasn't unaware of that um but yeah it was very it was everywhere to be honest at the time so So I wasn't shocked.

38:47Like, to me, that's just like, of course they do drugs. Like, if the industry is doing drugs. And you were like, well, I don't do that. Yeah. Do you know what one of the opening lines that I said to him in one of the first meetings in Vegas? And this is where they were lining up the coke thing. I came into the hotel room and he was showing me his running machine, saying, oh, look, I was on this till, like, I got on at 5 a.m. and I was running like a madman, saying things that sounds like you're on drugs. And I instantly went, oh, they're proper cokeheads, these. And so I sat down at the table and I'm recorded.

39:26You can hear this publicly, this recording. And they said, I'm about to do the girl in like the L 'Oreal adverts. And I was like, yeah, I can be the girl in the L 'Oreal adverts without the drugs. so I instantly tried to let them know let them know like I don't do it and that's recorded it's also recorded of them pulling my friend aside and saying oh like I want to get some some gear and you know Talisa like does she do it and you hear my friend go no no no no don't mention that around tea tea don't tea don't do drugs she don't do drugs she's not like that and him going oh really yeah no no don't don't bring all that up around here there's a recording of that that was played in court so they knew as well by this point from the comments that i've made and then going to my mate and then they were like crap you actually hear the assistant going to him going she's she's not on all this like she doesn't do that like she's actually saying to my mood like you're pushing here for something that doesn't exist that was played in court and this is when they went right we've got to take it up a notch if we can't get her doing it because she doesn't do it then we're gonna have to get her to Lisa I just and the novelty to me was like well the irony um the irony was of all the freaking people in the whole industry when 90 percent of the industry is doing it you go for the girl that doesn't do drugs when it's so hard not to in the industry that that i was in and be able to stand on business and go no i don't want to do that no i don't want to try that no i don't want to be that person and you go for the girl that doesn't do drugs because she's a camden girl and what i deserve it anyway like i mean the interesting thing is it you you were the kind of face of n-dubs really weren't you you were more famous in all the magazines oh and in a female perspective so like commercial world they always like the women and the girls that dress up and the dresses but musically no no but I'm yeah but as a commercial place yeah you not the boys yeah yeah on a commercial level I was the ones doing the magazines I mean this is I know this is a story from your life so in a way you're a bit like it just it this happened to me I'm telling you as an outsider I am a kind of amazed that you didn't like have some kind of breakdown or psychotic break because Well, I want to talk to you about that because they then change tack and they start going for something else.

42:22But you still, they are so real at this point, these people, that you still don't feel anything weird. You're just trying to help them because... I felt something weird. Oh, go on, tell me. I didn't like him. I didn't like his energy. You're a slime ball, but you know what? This is an energy exchange. I need something from you. You want something. Yes. Not drugs. Yes. Fucking movie role. Sorry. Yeah. My friend. No, of course. So, but I felt it. I was like, I don't like this human. That's all. But you got to deal with him because you really, really want this part. That's the industry. Slime balls everywhere.

42:59So I sensed that much. So what was the next ask? They basically started asking me, did I know anyone that could get any gear?

43:15and at the time I've got two things going on one I don't know anyone because I don't do drugs but two I've got this assistant pulling me aside putting the record recording devices away saying to me they're just not they're not going for it you've got to up the ante the only way you're going to get this role is if they believe you are the bad girl in the role this hood girl from a council estate from london so so when you say assistant she's not your assistant she's his assistant and she plays a role and she does this off off my yeah she would well they all have recording devices but she would take her recording device off and say i'll come to the toilet with you and then go come here I really want you to get this role I'm a mother I've read your biography my daughter loves you what you went through with your mum is so horrific you know with your mum's illness and I know about your spiritualism I know like this is meant to be for you you want this so bad and I believe in you you can do this but you have to go out there and you have to up the ante You have to make him believe you are the girl in that role or they're going to give it to someone else.

44:34There's three million quid sat there for you. Like, go and get it.

44:44So I literally just go from saying, yeah, I used to smoke a bit of weed and I was in a bit of a rough group of girls. And, you know, I used to get into a few fights to, oh, yeah, I know every gangster in London. They all carry guns. And I know every drug dealer. Like I just, I think I said I used to sell crack at one point. Like I just went, I just went with it. I don't owe the guy nothing. I thought he was a slime ball anyway. So I don't care if I'm telling him the truth or not. I want a three million quid. But can I just say something? Because this story that you're telling, I think everybody would do the same thing.

45:16Oh, what? You want me to lie about my childhood? Yeah. Would that get me the job? Yeah. Okay. You know you're lying. It's like, it's not. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. No. I think everybody would do the same thing. This is what's so awful. This is why no one can judge. Yeah. No one. No. Don't throw stones. Yeah. It just, it beggars belief. Yeah. So you go and become the person they want for this part, which everybody would do. And even that night when I've gone out and become the person and they're asking me for drugs, I still can't get them. You can't because you don't know how because you don't take drugs.

45:58Yeah. So I'm then making up excuses. I think there were two times where I've had to make up excuses and it's gone on for months and months, this thing, before they finally eventually one day got a number of someone who wasn't a drug dealer, who was an aspiring movie producer that I thought I was helping by introducing. So just explain that fully, what you did, because you thought you were helping this guy. Yeah. So just tell that story. I basically, there's some level of detail. I don't want to go into legal reasons. No, don't get into detail. Yeah, but what I would say is they're asking me constantly for coke.

46:39They end up getting a telephone number from me of someone who's an aspiring movie producer. He's not a drug dealer. And they end up... You thought you were helping him. Yeah. and here's the mad thing as well like the catch let's say even if I've given someone a telephone number I don't do drugs I don't know how much drugs cost I don't know the level of like how illegal you know drugs are I don't know any details about cocaine no like the class of drugs yeah I don't know anything and they order not a bag of coke 800 pounds worth of cocaine 800 yeah like and obviously now i know what 800 pounds of cocaine is yeah because i used to that's four years in prison oh yeah it's like that's four years in prison okay wow i think it was up to eight years but being realistic yeah well that's i guess that would be like a dealer's amount yeah what's concern in the selling of class a drugs yeah oh right yeah like i am

47:56basically approving 800 pounds worth even if they got a number from me and i'm i'm thinking okay i'm picturing a bag of coke and i'm picturing like a bag of weed which i did smoke okay they're going to order like a bag of cocaine like a small bag i'm not understanding that they're going to ordered like 800 pounds worth or what that means it's just yeah I found out and what happened then they left it for a while it wasn't instant were they still in contact with you in that time yeah were they still playing the game they were still trying to gauge things from me because what was happening was I would sit down with these producers or they'd have phone calls with me and they're these massive Hollywood producers so I'm trusting them with private information so they're then getting stories about my life about my relationship at the time and about anything that was going on and obviously the son are just plowing these stories out and I'm not knowing where they're coming from so they're still gaining even once they know they've got that they're going to go to the police they're going to send me to prison they're still banging out and getting as much news as they can by maintaining that relationship so at that time this was before um the kind of phone hacking scandal broke in the uk so they were basically just trying to milk you for any stories they could get yeah i was phone hacked as well until the big sting came out and it was at a time just explain how little you trusted everyone else in your life because those stories yeah you would have thought to yourself well those stories have got to be coming from somewhere who did you think was doing the dirty on you I'd already had family members selling stories on me I had like my ex-step-mom write a book so I wasn't I just expected anything from everyone.