Veganism Saved My Life! How I Stopped Drinking. I Wasn’t Happy. Gail McNeill.

0:00You don't need a lot to be happy. And I thought, what if I don't own anything? What if I literally have a few clothes? My husband went, do what makes you happy. Can I just say, your husband's a bloody revelation. Do whatever makes your wife happy. I'd given up on life. I literally wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. And I thought, am I drinking to numb that feeling? And that's when you realise you have a problem. I got to a point where I was like, when am I going to be me? And then I found... It's no good anybody telling someone else, this is what you should do, you should do this, this. you have to find your path.

0:32It's your why. Yeah. Anxiety and stress are two mega midlife things. Can you remember all the things you've ever been stressed about? You can't. When I let go of all these things, I felt this amazing freedom. I found this light and it's so bright. I mean, I want to shake your hand for that, like, congratulations. Well, Gail McNeil, it's very, very nice to meet you. I'm looking forward to hearing all your sort of tips and everything for navigating midlife but I do want to go back to your beginnings yeah as a child I didn't have a lot growing up I didn't come from a rich family so I was very driven to be successful and so everything I achieved was not enough and I thought what if I don't own anything what if I what if I literally have a few clothes and things that I can't let go of.

1:23Luckily, I've got a very tolerant husband who when I said, I want to sell the house and I want to get rid of everything, he said, okay. And I said, but I mean everything. He said, yeah, okay, that's fine. So this task of having this huge house full of furniture, full of stuff, I then had to start the process of decluttering and getting rid of everything, which is huge. What was that like? Everything you need is within yourself. Everything you need is within yourself. So all these things actually mean nothing. I'm not very sentimental when it comes to things. So I started by getting rid of big things.

2:04But then, I mean, I would have loved it if everything would have gone in a backpack. But sadly, with documents and pieces of paper and bits and bobs, we ended up with 10 boxes. 10 boxes. 10 boxes. Can I tell you, your whole life was in 10 boxes. Yeah. And I remember when I had one of my biggest paychecks and I had everything I ever wanted, my first thought was, how can I get out of this situation? How can I stop wanting more? How can I not have this big house? How can I not have these cars? And how can I be happy? one of the things that I I felt about your period of needing more was a feeling of control like controlling I need this I've got to control that I'm gonna and that actually what you did was just a massive let go yeah did it feel like that to you maybe control but I think I was just so driven to be successful I don't know why I was driven to be so successful but it was it was just this burning urge to be successful and to have everything I'd ever dreamt of.

3:09And then when I did let go, I let go. I really let go. I let go of everything I'd ever wanted. I thought I wanted, but it was not what I needed. We all want these things, don't we? But at the end of the day, do we need them? You don't need a lot to be happy. So when I let go of all these things, Every time something left the house, I felt this amazing feeling of freedom. I'm really interested in midlife career pivots. I think that gone are the days when anybody works. I mean, your parents, I don't know if your parents are like this, but my grandfather and my dad. My dad worked in advertising and sales his whole life.

3:48My granddad worked for British Paints his whole working life. Gone are those days. We all, in our generation, I think, will have multiple different careers, multiple different choices. but midlife feels like an amazing time to reinvent yourself yeah and you've done it in such a magnificent and massive way was it a conscious decision to think right I want to get this out to an audience or was it like I'm going to start telling people I'm doing something mad here I think I'm going to start sharing my story because it comes from a place of truth I can see that well how it started was I was looking through Instagram and Instagram was the place you look for photos for inspiration yeah so it's kind of changed now but at the time it was if you wanted to find someone with silver hair if you want to find someone doing something different or makeup tips or anything like that yeah that's where you would go and so I was kind of looking through Instagram and I said to my son I can't find anybody to that inspires me I can't find anybody that's showing me that life could be amazing life could be incredible you can do something different you can be vibrant full of energy have passion and do something new and he said well you can't find her because you are her so young is that your son that's my son how great is that yeah so he said you can't find her because you are her he always calls me an owl he said I'm very wise so he said okay you need to channel that and you need to post it online I said I don't want to post online I don't like social media it's not my thing and he said well that's why if everyone said the same thing there'd be nobody on social media so I started posting when I was doing my hair from um it was pink at the time I think and then I stripped out all the color to shocking white ruined my hair but I thought it's the last time I'm going to ruin it and then I thought I'm just going to go I'm just going to let the silver come through that was an amazing feeling too was it why because it's the upkeep of dying hair in three weeks it's well it's obviously it's the upkeep it's another thing that you have to keep doing and I felt like I was fighting my Yeah.

5:53I felt like, oh, he's got the roots of that. Well, they're never going to stop. So, again, liberation. I don't need to do that anymore. I said to my husband and son, look, I'm thinking of going grey. I'm thinking of just letting the silver come through. Should I do that? My husband went, do what makes you happy. My son said. Can I just say, your husband's a bloody revelation. We do are. I feel like we should just slow clap Sean right at this moment. Like, well done, Sean. I'm going to look straight down the lens there. Do whatever makes your wife happy. We do argue, by the way. Do you? We do. Well, I want to talk to you about that later, but carry on with this story of silver hair.

6:29So I said, should I let my grey come through? My husband said, do what makes you happy. My son said, absolutely not. Do not do that. So I was like, sorry, I'm just going to do it anyway. So I started letting it grow out. And I felt this, again, a sense of relief. I thought, I just, it's natural. Why am I fighting it? I'm fighting aging I'm not gonna win that yeah I can't win that yeah I don't want to win that because if I win it I'm probably dead so I want to be alive and and I want to embrace my wrinkles and I want to embrace my silver hair so as I started posting I didn't expect anyone to follow me I expected possibly 10 I thought it's probably 10 silver sisters out there thinking I'll follow her but within a very short space of time there were 70 000 people and i must admit i get freaked out quite often and i just run away from it i'm like i don't i don't want anything to do with it because it's i don't know it's another beast of fear it isn't it is and and we need you do you know what i mean like then it feels like a responsibility and in a way you let go of all of that you're so right that's exactly it because i will suddenly say this is this is too much you know i'm taking it's taking up too much of my life i'm not spending enough time bathering in mud walking my dogs being outside barefoot in the orange grove i'm feeding this beast like you say and then i'll get an email and it'll be from a woman in california or somewhere else saying you've changed my life why have you stopped posting I've given up on life I wanted to die I thought my life was over you've given me hope please don't stop posting and then I feel I'm choked up reading them because I'm like oh that was me that was me looking for somebody yeah I really hope you're enjoying this episode and if you can give us a follow I want to talk to you about your weight loss journey because I think the thing that I get asked most of all is well I get accused a lot of like well it's all right for you you've probably got a private personal trainer and you train every single day I don't I don't have a personal trainer I exercise to my own platform like I um but I I know that people get that from you and you've you've done the radical weight loss thing in menopause which lots of people say is impossible and you've proven that it's not and you've told loads of women yeah how you do that yeah talk me through that so 2021 I had through lockdown we weren't exercising we weren't walking so I prior to 2021 I was walking my dogs about four hours a day and I mean hiking I mean we were gone for four hours and I came back exhausted so then suddenly I can't do that you can't go for hours you can't be walking driving going wherever you want so then I'm in the hat like everyone else we're at home the gin and tonic's there.

9:28There's nothing else to do. There's nowhere else to go. So, oh, there's a nice sunset. I'll go and watch the sunset. Well, what's the sunset unless you have a gin and tonic? So I would take my little picnic basket with the tonic and the gin and some ice cubes and some slices of lemon. And I would walk down to the mill pond. This is where we were renting a house. It's a beautiful farm in the middle of the countryside. It's a beautiful mill pond. I could watch the sunset behind it and take a gin and tonic. Of course, you might as well have a double, mightn't you? Yeah, yeah. So you have a double gin and tonic.

9:58And then, well, you might as well have another one because there's nothing else to do. So, but it's also, oh, it's nice. It's sunny. It's the sunset. I'm outside. It's only two drinks, but it's not really. It's four drinks because it's two doubles. And so this becomes a routine. Two double gin and tonics nearly every day. And then, of course, you're eating snacks. Oh, you might as well take a packet of crisps or something. And then slowly, slowly, I'm gaining weight. But of course, it's so slow that I don't notice. You really notice, yeah. I don't notice. But I thought I was reasonably fit. But then suddenly, within, I don't know, six months, I see a photo of myself.

10:42And I'm like, oh, you look a bit puffy. I don't recognize you. Maybe I need to do something about that. And then when lockdown finished, we went to the north of Portugal. And we rented this little house in the countryside. and we walk down to this river and I set up my camera I love taking videos set up my camera and I'm walking along the rocks and I'm about to dive into the river and I'm looking at the camera is that on is that recording and I can't because I've got my glasses on is that recording I'm not sure so I'm kind of squinting and then oh yeah I think it's recording so then I dive in and I go swimming and then a few weeks later I'm kind of looking through the videos and I come across that clip of me looking at the camera.

11:23But of course, I'm not even looking at my face. I'm looking at my body saying, who's that? Who is that person? That's not me. And okay, a lot of people say, oh, you didn't look that bad. But how much weight is too much weight? Is it one pound? Is it 12 pounds? But it also depends where you started. I mean, I think when we put on the weight around our middles. It's from where you started, is this different for you? And that was different for you. You didn't recognize yourself, but for someone else, that might not be how they felt if they had your body, but it's not where you started. That's right.

12:02So people, a lot of people, I get criticism too, saying, oh, you're fat shaming that version of yourself. I said okay that person is not happy that person can feel that weight she's miserable I can see that in her eyes I don't have to look at the rest of the body I can see it in her eyes I could yeah and I'm like I look dead my eyes are dead I'm a very vibrant bubbly chatty person and I'm looking at that person and I'm like I I don't like who I'm looking at not physically mentally spiritually I I can see that there's nothing there because I knew how I was feeling. I literally wanted to go to sleep and not wake up.

12:42That's what I wanted. I just wasn't enjoying life. And I thought, am I drinking to numb that feeling? And that's when you realize you have a problem. You're like, hold on a minute. I'm drinking to forget the stress and the anxiety and the depression or my mind's in chaos, which works for a few hours. then when those drinks wear off, two o 'clock in the morning, wide awake, what's going on? What am I doing? I don't want to be here. So drinking to forget or kind of numb that feeling does work, but only for a short time. And of course it affects every cell in our body. Alcohol is a toxin, it's poison.

13:27So seeing myself looking like that, thinking it's not doing your body any good and it's you're certainly not helping your mind what can you do who can so you asked yourself I asked myself I think this is the thing that it's no good anybody telling someone else no you know oh um like this is what you should do you should do this this you have to find your path it's your why yeah yeah and that's why I try to tell people they're like where do I start where do I start And I said, but you've got to find out why you should start. I don't know where you are. I don't know where you are in your journey, where you are in life.

14:07Maybe you've decluttered your house. Maybe you don't drink. Maybe there's so many maybes. I said, you need to find your why. Why do you want, why do I, why should I want to go from wanting to like switch the lights off to healing myself? And why was it? Why should I do it? So I thought, well, if I carry on gaining weight, I'm going to lose my mobility. I know cognitive decline will happen if I don't stop drinking and start eating properly and moving more but I can't silence my brain my brain was I've got a very active brain anyway it's literally bombarding me with ideas all day every day but this was like a constant noise and I couldn't switch it off except if I went to sleep so that's why I wanted to sleep all the time yeah to quiet my mind so again I went looking for inspiration and I looked online and I couldn't find anybody couldn't find anybody and then I found a monk his name is Nick it's such a non-monk name well actually he's got amazing background because he's actually a refugee that ended up living in America he grew up in so I think he was originally born in I don't know whether it's Laos or Laos but that's where he was born and then he was in Thailand in a camp for children like an immigration camp.

15:25And then he was also in the Philippines. Then he went to live in America. So he's very American. So he has this background of an immigrant coming in with nothing and then suddenly getting this urge to be a monk. He had this, oh, I need to go be a monk. So he's got the Western way of speaking and he understands the Western lifestyle. So when I was listening to him, he's making so much sense. And so he's saying, the first video I watched was about food. And this was the switch in my brain. He said, I ate five times a day, five to six times a day in California. When I became a monk, I could only eat twice a day and I could only eat when I was given.

16:09Oh, so they don't buy food. They have to be gifted. They have to be gifted. So they go around every morning with a big bowl and the people give it, it's called alms. So people give them like a handful of rice and a handful of vegetables. and then a handful of dessert all in the same bowl. So I'm thinking, Nick, if you can eat a bowl of food that you didn't choose with your dessert next to your rice, whatever, you have no choice and you only eat two meals a day. I have a choice what I can eat. I can eat two meals a day. If you can do it, so can I. So I'm challenging Nick. He has no idea, but I'm challenging him on screen.

16:43If you can do it, so can I. So I thought, right, I'm only going to eat twice a day. So I'm going to eat breakfast and I'm going to eat lunch and I'm going to stop at lunchtime because that's what he did. Now, I know most people would say, oh, but I like to eat lunch and dinner. Yes, I would find that hard because of the social aspect in the evening. It is difficult. It is difficult. But I thought I'm going to say the first four weeks was awful. The hangar. Oh, yes. Sean and I didn't like each other then. We really did at the same time, right? Well, he started after me. because he started oh I was hangry I was so hangry but it's not that it's the um it's it's the routine it's the habit of eating so you know you're preparing a meal in the evening it's an hour to get it ready then you sit and eat and then it's half an hour to clean up clear up after dinner that's gone I mean explain becoming plant-based because that was quite a big step and it's not necessarily veganism it's it is more plant-based yeah i say plant-based because the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan is vegetarians have friends so most people don't like vegans and i understand it's so true veganism people when they first become vegans they become very militant and i know why that is it's because they know the damage and harm they've done to another being and it's very hard to deal with that when you become aware of it so they become very militant and i have the utmost respect for people who will try and convert other people i'm not here to convert anyone else we're all on our own path we all can choose what we want to eat if you want to eat meat eat meat i'm it's nothing to do with me so i i don't sound vegan because of that because I'm someone that loves eating plants.

18:33I just love eating plants. And I don't want to convert anyone else because I don't feel you can. I feel that I can show people that by eating plants, you can exercise every day. You can have lots of energy. You can sleep eight hours a night. You can feel full. You can feel well. You can eat amazing food and feel great. So I'd rather show people yes then tell them um um i uh went to narcotics anonymous for many many many many years and in narcotics anonymous the temptation to tell everybody to go to an anonymous fellowship because it's so amazing yeah it's huge but in these anonymous fellowships they always say attraction rather than promotion and that's what you're doing you are attracting people to your way of life because you look so well and vibrant rather than going you should be doing this yeah because promotion puts people off really in a way doesn't it but it's the guilt you do feel incredible I did I felt incredibly guilty so how did my uh for the act for cruelty to animals it's it's the so it is it is based on how it started was I had a health scare about 12 14 years ago and I was told I had cancer.

19:53Or there's no doubt you've got cancer. So I thought, okay, if I've got cancer, how can I heal quickly? If I haven't got cancer, how can I stop myself? How can I prevent myself from getting cancer? So this is me. I research, research, research. And then all of every avenue, every road led to veganism. I wasn't exactly thrilled about that. For someone who loved cooking. I loved cooking. And of course, everything was animal based. And then I looked at other people and I thought, okay, I'm going to give it two weeks. They all say they feel amazing within two weeks. I'm not convinced. It's not going to work.

20:33I'm not going to like it. Two weeks in, convert. I felt amazing. I felt fantastic. I felt fantastic. What's interesting is I'm on a journey through my life and I'm really loving talking to so many interesting people on Begin Again. I'm just enjoying this so much but eating meat is becoming less and less attractive and it feels somehow wrong somewhere. So I'm actually eating almost no red meat anymore and I was like but it's happening by osmosis it's the weirdest thing I'm frightened of saying I am but that's why you don't have to vegan but I I am doing it less and less and enjoying it less and less a bit like Sean yeah I might have a meal and eat some chicken and it's somehow afterwards it's like doesn't sit right really interesting I don't know why I don't want to give up meat no we don't have to i mean i think the thing is if it's it's try what's right for you then when you start researching animal agriculture it's a one-way ticket yes to plant acc yes it's gruesome and so i'm not judging anyone want to do that no we don't want to stop but i think you know we all know that somewhere i know and i when i people attack me i mean i never tell people oh i only eat plants but I went out to dinner with someone, a party with someone.

22:07And I said, oh, is there something with just vegetables? Why? Well, I just want something with just vegetables. Oh, there's a vegetarian option. I said, oh, yeah, I don't eat dairy. Oh, you're vegan. Oh, right. And then I start getting a lecture about it. And I was like, I just don't want to do any harm to anyone or anything. That's all I really want to do is go through life not harming anyone or anything. Why am I the bad guy? I mean, I guess somebody from the outside looking where you've come from to where you are now, are you restricting yourself or do you feel like you're gifting yourself something?

22:44I feel like I'm giving myself the best chance to live a mobile life for as long as possible with my cognitive function. I don't want my son to have to look after me. I want him to have the best life for as long as possible doing what he wants to do. The thought of him wheeling me to the bathroom gets me jumping every time. Because I just think I don't want to be a burden to him. I don't want him to give up his amazing life, to have to compromise his life to look after me. So then I pick up the jump rope and the kettlebell and I hate it. But after 15 minutes, I'm like, oh, I'm really glad I did that.

23:23Tell me your exercise routine and how often, how long? So it depends how hot it is and how long I can stand. But generally, I say 15 minutes, but it's normally 25. What I tell myself is 15 minutes. So I do five minutes weighted speed rope. And I mean really super fast, super fast weighted speed rope for five minutes. Then I do kettlebell for about five minutes. Then I repeat that. And then I finish with five minutes speed rope. So it's three sets of five. When you're talking speed rope, tell us what that is. so you it's a weighted skipping rope and so you're you're going super fast so you've got a skipping rope that has a weight to it because obviously you've got different ropes for different things you've got the beaded ropes which are good for tricks then you've got um the lighter ropes which are good for tricks and also jumping at speed then you've got a weighted rope so it's heavier than a normal rope and that's where you tone your arms i've heard about that oh my god and then i've got a Mai Tai rope.

24:21What's that? A Mai Tai rope. It's so heavy and the rope is super thick. It's about almost an inch thick and it's super duper. It's what Mai Tai boxers use. That's a killer, but that gives you a full body work, full upper body workout. I can't do 15 minutes of that. Cardio, unbelievable cardio, right? I can't do 15 minutes of that. No. I could probably do three sets of two minutes of that. But skipping changed your whole body. Oh, it did. But it also it changes your mood when I was looking for an exercise to do at home indoors with the aircon on that I didn't need to watch anything I didn't need to learn anything I was just thinking what's the most efficient exercise that I can do time efficient exercise that I can do that's a full body workout so I ordered this skipping rope and I was like I'm gonna do 3 ,000 jumps and I tell everyone on Instagram I'm gonna do 3 ,000 jumps it's gonna be it's gonna be so easy I'm gonna build up to it.

25:17I think I did 20 jumps. There's a film of me lying on the floor thinking I'm having a heart attack. My feet hurt. Everything's aching and creaking. And I remember calling my son going, Seb, I've told people that I'm going to do 3 ,000 jumps. I can't do it. What have I done? What do I do? He will say, I believe in you. You can do it. Come on, mum, you can do it. Let's talk about the sponsors of this podcast. Zoe Membership, a personalised nutrition programme. I always get asked why I look after my body and the answer, I want to look good naked. Joke. Don't worry. That's not it. I do it because I know what my health is worth and I want to have the best life ever.

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26:51That's Zoe.com and use code Davina10. Oh, and by the way, as you clearly like podcasts, you should go and check out their new show, Zoe Science and Nutrition. It's so good. I am a massive fan I love how they do all of this research and they give it all away for free let's talk about navigating menopause perimenopause what was that like for you well mine is a little bit different because I had adenomyosis and endometriosis and I had a tumor on my ovary so it was enormous right it was huge it was huge it was the size of a butternut squash I mean it was enormous so that's when I was told turns out I didn't have cancer but at the time I was told this is cancer we've never seen anything so bad and this is where the whole plant based eating thing came from so literally wheeled in everything's chopped out plunged into and then they said you need to go on HRT because you need to protect your bones every woman in my family has got osteoporosis you need to protect your bones I was like okay do I have a choice what HRT I take they were like why I said is there a cruelty free option they said yes there is there's one that comes from yams cool I'll take that so I went in with everything came out with HRT so I didn't I didn't go through menopause as such so I went in feeling awful and ghastly and obviously you got punished into it but you you didn't get the symptoms no I didn't get the symptoms because I I wasn't in perimenopause I literally went I was feeling great apart from I had all these issues that needed to be resolved.

28:24So I had low blood count and I was anemic and everything. So then suddenly that's, I'm in, wheeled, and then I'm wheeled out with HRT, ready to go. So I didn't go through menopause as such, but I still believe that there's a time in a woman's life that this change happens. And usually that coincides with the hormones disappearing as well. So that's why I feel like there is a moment, there is a time women change. And I think it's the same time as the hormones disappear. Did you grieve not being able to reproduce anymore? Well, it's a bit of a strange one for me because I wanted more children. But when my son was born, I had preeclampsia.

29:10I was incredibly ill and we weren't sure he was going to live. He went straight into special care baby unit. He stopped breathing three times within the first 24 hours. So that was very traumatic and thought I'm not doing that again did do it again got preeclampsia straight away lost the baby quite early so that's when I said I don't think this is for me I've got what I wanted a brown-eyed funny boy yeah why keep trying for something else when you've already got what you want so I I kind of grieved then for not having more children because it was interesting I I knew I didn't want to have more children after I'd had my three I think you know when you're done yeah You knew when you were done.

29:49I knew when I was done. But when I did get to that time of my life and I thought, oh, okay, we're going to shut that door. I still grieved. And I thought, this is funny. I know I don't want any more children, but I feel sad that I am not of childbearing age anymore. Yeah, I understand that. So when I went in to have everything taken away, I was in so much pain. I would have done it myself if I could have. So I would have wanted to stamp on my uterus if I could have and kick it out of the window because it was giving me so much pain. However, there was that thought process of, am I less of a woman?

30:26Yes. I think, yeah, I think that's what it is. Yeah. Am I less of a woman? Is a woman just a childbearing person? Do I have less value? Do I have less? Am I a real woman? You know, it's kind of, you know, there's all these thoughts. But then for me, the justification was, I don't have to be in pain for three months three weeks every month so that the the grieving kind of judging my value disappeared quite quickly when I realized I could wear white jeans again and I and I didn't have to worry about bleeding all over the sofa you know I used to go to meetings and I was in Taiwan or something like that in a meeting and of course I needed to go to the bathroom every 10 10 minutes because I was bleeding so profusely and and I'm in chronic pain so it was so nice afterwards yeah not having to plan my my month around what when I was going to be menstruating and how much protection I could cram in my nether region so that I didn't bleed on any sofas or things so yeah so the the balance was the pros were so good that I didn't really judge the value of am I less of a woman I wiped that off straight away so you know assuming now that like not being not being able to create life anymore yeah um is not necessarily everything there is to being a woman no what is being a woman now to you well i think women have we we've got so much power and we've got so much potential we've got so much value but we are sold by society that you know you've got to know you're 10 years young in fact if you don't you're failing at life and you've um you should have work done but if you have work done oh look she's had work done so you can't win if you have the tree if you have the tweakments or treatments she's had work so then you'll judge for that if you don't have them then you'll judge for that so you're going to get judged regardless but i think the thing is for i think it's for up to us to tell younger women girls that it isn't just your period stopped that's as much as i knew about the menopause your period stopped and i was like oh this sounds great this sounds great i knew your period stopped you get bloody angry and well i didn't even know that uh you know that's what i'd heard and i was like this sounds terrible now i feel like it's our duty to show them that it can be amazing oh it's the best thing i in fact a few people have messaged me who've been following me for a while and they were like oh this year the one girl in particular she was 35 and she had to have a hysterectomy and she messaged me and she said look I'm really really worried um you know that I'll feel less of a woman and I can't have more children and so I had this exchange with her lovely lovely girl and she was just like oh really oh I said go by yourself the best pair of white trousers you can put and put them ready to put on for a couple of weeks after you're up and you'll be so happy um and I said you know you've got your two children you've got everything you wanted now this is a time of freedom if you have to have it just let it go thank it for its work for giving you two children but say goodbye to it quite nice to write a letter yeah it would although i was kicking mine out the window yeah i mean you would just go just telling you it's time to fuck off like thank you goodbye yeah but we should thank it for what it did yeah thank you for i mean thank you for my son i'm forever grateful for my son he's the most amazing human being.

33:53And my uterus gave me that opportunity to grow him. But I think we've got to kind of help younger women understand that it's not as simple as your period stop. You do need to be prepared. You do need to look out for brain fog. You do need to look out for all of these symptoms. And if you need HRT, go and get HRT. I think we'd all agree if a guy had his testicles cut off, the first thing we'd offer him is testosterone so as women we've lost that function we should have that function and also with the history of osteoporosis in your family yes it would be prescribed as anyway exactly but the the oncologist said to me there's there's no debate you have to have it you're too young not to have hrt i said oh okay that's fine um so i never had those symptoms and i'm grateful i didn't because i've seen people who've really struggled but i think also we need to look after ourselves as well yeah we need to eat properly we need to exercise and we need to realize the potential that we've got to live an active life in a good form for longer i am because i was i've been looking at you know the food that you eat you show often show us like what you eat in the morning and what you eat in the day and there's often kind of naughty bits in there i mean you you eat a whole pizza once a week is that true it's true absolutely and it's not a small one it's a big one I eat a whole piece of this is the thing I don't limit what I eat if I want ice cream I'll have ice cream I want pizza I'll have pizza if I tell myself I can't have pizza I want pizza so I have a pizza once a week if I wanted it twice a week I'd eat it twice a week but I don't um I eat chocolate but I eat dark chocolate and but I don't have a sweet tooth but if I want chocolate I will eat chocolate but everything is homemade there's no added sugar okay so i need to talk to you about this i've been thinking about this a lot i i've just recently again because i did do it for about four years um given up refined sugar so no sweets chocolates biscuits cake but i am all or nothing like if i have one biscuit packet i i'm off so i just i'm not doing it i eat fruit that's sugar um mostly kind of berries i love berries um i love an apple things like that anyway i'm three weeks into that i feel amazing more energy for sure no doubt about that anyway but when you're saying i make everything fresh i love the your food looks amazing but i'm here i'm having sort of food on the hoof i'm gonna eat here so what do i do but that's the thing you have to be prepared you either need to make sure that the food that you want is available or you need to take it with you right and this is the whole eating out thing as well yeah it's the whole meal prep yeah it's meal prep but you see people look at my meals and say oh that took hours no they didn't if you see like a chocolate mousse i make it takes three minutes it's silken tofu with some cacao and maybe some melted chocolate maybe that's it you just blend it stick it in the cup it's ready I don't it's so hot so basically I'm renting this little cottage it's it doesn't really have a kitchen it has four hot plates and a sink and I bought an air fryer and I've got a fridge that's it I don't have anything else I have a workspace this big wow so I think people think I've got this amazing no I don't I have an amazing kitchen it's really tiny so I have to make it in a short amount of time because it's so hot in there yes I literally want to make it and eat it so when people see oh well she's got out she's all right for her she's got the time it doesn't take long you know how long does it take to slice a papaya and slice some more fruit and put it in there with a dollop of silken tofu it's minutes it's just being prepared eating fresh and taking food with you and i don't know i don't eat out in the evening so that makes it easier for me because when i go out for a meal then you have to compromise yeah yeah and that is quite difficult Yeah, but luckily...

38:01I mean, I'm one foot in, one foot out. I do a bit of compromising, but I do try and make stuff at home. But food is a hard one, I think. I'm interested to talk to you about your spiritual journey because obviously you were talking to Nick and he's opened your eyes to a different way of life through his Buddhism. But what is your journey with spirituality and have you found that that's developed in midlife? I've never been a religious person. I still don't have a religion now. I just call myself curious. I'm just curious. I will remain curious forever. So I didn't grow up in a religious family.

38:38I used to go and do bell ringing and I sang in the choir because there was nothing else to do where I lived. That literally was the only way you could meet other children. So I found myself a bell ringer. People were like, you're a bell ringer for the church. You must be really religious. I'm like, oh, yeah, I suppose I should be, but no, I'm not. So that was my interaction with the church as a child was singing in the choir and bell ringing. But I've never been drawn to a particular religion ever. I'm fascinated by religion. I'm fascinated. I've always thought, well, which one do you choose? Because everybody thinks theirs is right.

39:12Which one do you choose? So I know that there's more to life than we know. So I just prefer to remain curious as to what that could be I think we have more powers than we know I know that I can feel energy from another person I know that I know if someone's talk talking about me in a nice way and I'll call them they go that's really weird because I was just thinking about you an hour ago so I think there's powers that we don't know about but when talking when I was talking to Nick now Nick is a Buddhist wait wait oh wait I need to rewind there what so you were watching Nick on the screen and now he's your friend yes to have what yeah it's a bit strange I love that so I was watching Nick and Nick is in his orange robes and he's got the trees behind him and he's like he's just a picture of calm and I'm watching Nick and I'm drawn to Nick and I'm listening to him and I'm loving everything he's saying he's calming me down and then he starts talking about how uh eastern wisdom can help us in our western lifestyles and I watch everything I just I'm consuming every word he's saying and I'm thinking about it, thinking about every single aspect of his beliefs.

40:24But he's not preaching about Buddhism. No. He's talking about his philosophy and wisdom. So I'm watching Nick. And then a little while after, I messaged Nick and I just said, I just want you to know that your videos made a real difference to me. Thank you so much for going to the effort of making these videos. You've completely changed my life and I want to thank you for that. So is it more his philosophies and teachings that you've taken on board as not necessarily Buddhism per se? It's not Buddhism. Because Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion, isn't it? But I think we've lost our sense of self.

41:03I think we've forgotten how to take care of ourselves. I think we've forgotten that we have a soul. I think we see ourselves as these machines going through life, eating, working, being. but we need to take a step back because we're not coping with our lives very well. So when Nick was talking about stresses, so when you start to meditate, imagine all your stresses and then imagine them falling to the floor. I thought, oh, that's really powerful. So you're not saying they don't exist. You're saying they're now on the floor, so they're not as important. So it's just that. I love that. I just felt that when you said that.

41:39Did you? Yeah. Because you can visualize all of these yeah it's so powerful yeah but so my spiritual journey has not been for a specific religion but i've opened myself up to what powers i have the power to control my stress my anxiety to open my mind to relax to be present it's these are all things that you're talking about but i think they're very hard to get to again in the last three weeks i've started meditating every day i'm just on 10 minutes at the moment yeah it's hard some days i'm just breathing listening thinking but like you know clearing but i'm just thinking thinking and other days i think wow i'm in it i'm in it i'm in it i'm in it um they're hard to achieve and they take again a bit of focus and a bit of time um but anxiety and stress are two mega midlife things what does it feel like you feel like you've offloaded a lot of that how is that i think i've mastered anxiety and stress now i think i have to you know i think i've done and it is through things like visualizing if you imagine them dropping to the floor they're not important and then if you imagine things that you've ever been can you remember all the things you've ever been stressed about you can't no because we we always as humans have to be looking for a problem to solve we're always so if we haven't got one we have to make one and so listening to nick and to michael it's really made me think differently now of course they lead very different lives they get up at dawn they have breakfast they're meditating and they're they're doing buddhist things all day they don't have to earn money they they don't have to do anything for anyone else other than to share their wisdom learn more wisdom so they don't have anyone's saying oh you need to pay your mortgage oh uh you know your electricity bill's gone up 20 but they both grew up in the west yeah so and they both lived in the west and nick in particular was a therapist in malibu and he realized that all the time people were coming in for therapy it was always the same thing that he was giving them so it was always okay you need to you need to go within you need to find quiet you need to let go you need to look after yourself you need to eat properly, you need to sleep, all the basic human things.