IM8 CEO on building the 'world's fastest-growing supplements brand' backed by David Beckham

14:57I had just had my first daughter and then health was becoming much more important. right and then I was thinking you know what there was very few healthcare entrepreneurs at that time there still is right but you're thinking about 11 years ago was very little I was thinking how come yeah if there isn't why don't I do that and then so that's why I started Prenetics and the name

15:17Danny Yeung:comes from Prevention Genetics because I felt if you have more data about yourself you know the

15:22David Beckham:more you can proactively live healthier and it sounds like that doesn't ever stop you from going into a new field, you know, like the lack of previous experience in that direct field, right? Because health and wellness, it can be intimidating to people, right? Yeah, very intimidating, especially when you're talking about genetic testing, DNA tests. So even at that time for funding and investing, you're like, Danny, you just went from selling coupons and what do you know about DNA testing, right? So it's a very, very wide gap. Yeah, but again, I think I'm a quite good researcher. I like to read a lot about, yeah, if I'm passionate about something, I'll go very in depth to understand every little detail about the product.

16:02Danny Yeung:And which right now, if you put me in front of any scientist, doctor, professor, I can have a very, very great intelligent conversation with them.

16:12David Beckham:You can hold your own.

16:13Danny Yeung:Yes.

16:13David Beckham:Yeah. Okay. So in the early days then, what were the initial challenges when it came to scaling up and even just getting things running, right? Because you talked a little bit about funding. I was curious, even when it came down to financing, did you go out on raise right away? Were you bootstrapping initially? How did you approach that? Yes. And the biggest challenge was really the science piece, right? Again, really understanding that and just doing lots of studying. And again, I wasn't the one in the lab per se. That was Lawrence, my co-founder. But again, he previously had a separate company.

16:47But again, and he had great science, but he didn't understand how to commercialize it. Right. So for me, I came in and kind of have to understand the science and then put a commercialization model on top of it. Right. Because then then that's only where you succeed. And then initially when we we came into it, it was, you know, I think myself and a few investors, we put in roughly two and a half million USD into the business to get started.

17:15Danny Yeung:And then, of course, you know, we've had follow on funding rounds after that.

17:19David Beckham:Right. I see. And what were some of the hardest things, I guess, when it came to tackling that? You said the science bit was obviously something that you had to overcome, but it sounds like you managed to overcome that. Was there anything else that surprised you about the space that you really felt like was a challenge? Again, DNA testing globally wasn't very new. Right. But I think in Asia, it was even more new. Yeah. Right.

17:38Danny Yeung:Because naturally, I think Asia, there's a lag time of about three to five years. right when it comes to like yeah health solutions and then so i think one of the biggest challenges early on was actually getting people to pay for it right because i think early on wise i just came from direct to consumer logically people thought i was gonna sell the dna testing kits online but i did some tests like a customer acquisition test but the acquisition costs were way too expensive to make it profitable. So then we never did DTC initially. So we went to B2B2C. And so when we went to B2B2C, it was actually working with large insurance companies, like AIA, Prudential, Manulife, et cetera, to offer them DNA testing, value-added services to their client base.

18:32Danny Yeung:So somehow we were able to convince them to offer it to their clients as a way for them to know more about their health.

18:40David Beckham:I was going to ask which businesses did you target, but that actually makes perfect sense, actually, when you think about it. So I have to say, Danny, I first came across Prenetics as a user, as many people did here in Hong Kong where we're chatting today, because obviously one of the reasons that you guys first rose to prominence, I think, in the general public was as a major COVID test provider here during the pandemic, which of course was a huge opportunity for businesses like yours. So can you kind of talk through going through that period as well as, you know, what really happened following that?

19:12David Beckham:Because I imagine there's a story. Early on during the COVID time period, right? It was like March, 2020. And then all of a sudden I had like, you know, multiple friends reached out to me, just texting, you know, Danny, do you guys do PCR testing? Right. And the first few times I responded with no, right. It's like, Hey, we don't do that. we're a DNA testing company. Right. And then after like maybe the fifth person said the same thing, we're like, Hey, then I talked to my science team and say, there's something here. Right. And then when I did more research at the time was very difficult to get a PCR test.

19:44Yeah. You had to go to the hospital. It was very expensive. I remember that time was like, you know, five,$600 USD just for a test. But the challenge with that is if you wanted to do a test, you don't want to go outside. You don't want to, especially don't want to go to a hospital. Right. And then, so then, in a span of maybe about two to three weeks, then we came up with the first at-home saliva PCR test. And then basically we just ship it from our laboratory to this individual's home in Hong Kong. And every day we sold out with like, it was very little, right? At that time, we just wanted to help the community.

20:19And we sold it pretty much at the time at cost. It was like a hundred bucks USD compared to$500 when you're getting at a hospital, right? So we just saw, you know, 200 tests a day and we're completely sold out. And then I remember, you know, even in, that was April in 2020, we had a meeting with the former chief executive of Hong Kong, Carrie Lam. And we're saying, you know what, we have this capacity, we have this laboratory, you know, what you guys need help, right, to be able to test the community. At the time, they rejected us. All right. They say, we don't need help. you know we can do this by by ourselves etc etc right thanks but no thanks yeah correct exactly at the time right and then what happened is then of course then the pandemic got worse and worse right and then we were scaling but of course we don't we didn't want to just wait for government we went we were scaling from like you know 200 tests on a daily basis to i think at one point

21:15Danny Yeung:it was like yeah six seven hundred tests on a daily basis and then when the pandemic got really bad starting in July, we had a further follow-up meeting with the government. They're like, hey, you guys been successful already with this at-home PCR test. Can you help us scale out this further? And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, hey, we want to do mass testing on, I think it was at time, 18 ,000 restaurants and 300 ,000 restaurant workers. And then we're like, how long will we have to take right they're like we want to do it as soon as possible and there's like we want to do in four weeks time right um you know it was quite crazy to us at the time right but basically then we dropped everything we we basically completed that i think in literally four weeks time tested 300 000 uh workers across hong kong and then yeah those three years yeah again we could then we We never intended to do millions of PCR tests, but what happened in Hong Kong was there was at one point, I think like 10 to 15 different providers, but the majority of the providers, they kept messing up somewhere in terms of giving false positives, false negatives.

22:31The data security wasn't good. Logistics wasn't good, et cetera. And then so we're the only one that the government kept coming to us. They're like, hey, can you do more?

22:38Danny Yeung:Can we do more? and then we end up at a height doing 40 ,000 PCR tests on a daily basis. We operated a few of the testing centers. We operated all of the testing at the airport. So any individual that would came on the airport, you would need to do a prenatics PCR test on arrival.

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23:59David Beckham:But what happened post-COVID? Because I understand you dismantled that side of the business. Oh, yeah. So, of course, right in the middle of COVID, and again, this is kind of thinking strategically we're doing, Yeah, quite well, right? So we utilized the opportunity to list on the NASDAQ. So in May 2022, we list on the NASDAQ. We had like a billion dollar valuation at the time because COVID was still ongoing. The revenues was like quite high. I remember each of those three years, we were, yeah, in total, we did 800 million revenue in three years, right? Which is quite crazy because in 2019, one year prior to COVID, we did 10 million revenue.

24:35So we went from 10 million to like 250 million in revenue. So post-COVID at the end of, you know, 23, right? So of course our revenues dropped very significantly because there's no more testing. And I think one good thing that we did is that once we knew, you know, COVID was going to end, we dismantled the team very, very fast. I mean, that was for the benefit of the company and also for the employees because at the end of the day, you know, if we had kept that going, our fixed costs would have been way too high and then so that's where i think a lot of the companies for example in the u.s you know there were at least you know four or five companies they also listed there were like pcr covid testing they also listed a company they had like two three four

25:21Danny Yeung:billion dollar valuations and they're all now bankrupt or they're no longer listed because they stayed at it a little bit too long and for us we we may definitely made the right decision looking back that we dismantle that team very, very fast. So we can focus, say, you know what? We know COVID is not going to be there and then we have to move forward with a new strategy.

25:43David Beckham:Right. You know, laying off your team, obviously that's never easy. And on this show, we love to ask people what their toughest day at work was. I imagine that that must have been one of the hardest times for you though, just as a human, of course. A hundred percent, right? Because again, a lot of those people, they were very instrumental as well. in those three years, right? But I knew from a pure business perspective-wise, it was actually the best for them because everyone needs to kind of move on. Otherwise, they're sitting in the office

26:13Danny Yeung:with nothing to do, right? Because there was no testing, right? So it was good for both sides to be able to move forward as fast as possible.

26:23David Beckham:Can I ask what percentage, if you remember, of your headcount that was at the time? Because I imagine that was a pretty big subset of your employees? It was probably like 90 plus percent. Oh, wow.

26:35Danny Yeung:Yeah, because we had like a few thousand people, right? Yeah. At that point.

26:39David Beckham:Yeah, that's wild. So one of the pillars that Prenetic started next was Insider, a$200 million joint venture focused on early cancer detection. You've previously announced the development of$200 tests that would allow you to detect certain types of cancer with a simple blood draw. These are obviously really big goals. Can you share an update on where this is now? Sure. So after COVID, again, we had cash from the operations as well as from the IPL. So we made an investment into Insight, which is an early cancer detection company. Now, we're not operating the company. So it's a little bit different.

27:17But of course, we believe that in the future, having an easy way to identify cancer at the earliest stages is going to be a big breakthrough.

27:27Danny Yeung:for individuals here in Asia and around the world, right? So in terms of where that company is, it's also co-founded by Professor Dennis Lowe, which is the godfather of non-invasive preneural testing. We're still a good few years out before commercialization, but we do feel there's significant potential with that.

27:46David Beckham:And last October, I did see there was an interesting announcement about Insighta scoring a$30 million investment from Chinese tech giant Tencent. That must have been very nice. They're the only other investor in Insighter. And again, our stake in Insighter is valued at$70 million.

28:03Danny Yeung:So it's a decent chunk. And we've been very happy for them coming in.

28:07David Beckham:How did that deal come together? Because it's not every day you land a whale like that, right? Yeah. So I think for Tencent or some of the larger companies nowadays, I think they're all trying to get into healthcare, right?

28:19Danny Yeung:And especially with Tencent, the strategic aspect there is the AI piece. So we're utilizing the AR algorithms to improve the sensitivity and specificity of the tests.

28:30David Beckham:Speaking of milestones, another high point of this journey is one that you alluded to just now, which must have been going public, right? In 2022, Prenetics headed to Wall Street and became the first Hong Kong unicorn to list on the NASDAQ. What did that moment mean to you, Danny, especially, you know, to represent the city in this way? I would say I think it was a proud moment for Hong Kong in general, because, again, it's quite rare that you can bring Hong Kong to the global stage, right, and listing the company on NASDAQ. It was certainly a milestone for myself. I mean, in the early days of PrenetX, I had visions.

29:04I said, one day, you know, we're going to list on the NASDAQ. Of course, I didn't know how, but I just had that idea at the time.

29:12Danny Yeung:Yeah. So, you know, starting was a very memorable moment for us.

29:16David Beckham:Yeah, I see a trend emerging here, by the way. It's just like, you know, when you were that kid selling baseball cards and you were thinking about how you wanted to make your own money, you know, but you didn't know how and you just went after it. It sounds like you are the type that has that goal in mind pretty early on. As with many other post-spac mergers, you know, Pernetix has seen pressure on its market cap over the past couple of years. How are you approaching this? And what do you want folks to understand about, you know, where the business actually stands today versus what the stock price might suggest?

29:46One of the key challenges, I would say, since listing, you know, on the NASDAQ, you know, three years ago, again, I was new. I was a new public company CEO. So there's a lot of different challenges, lots of investors, stakeholders that you have to deal with. So when we list it, we're like, you know,$1 billion, right? And then in the last three years, I think the low point, we went from$1 billion. I think at one point our market up was like$30 to$40 million. So, of course, our revenues dropped significantly. And then in 2025, I mean this year, right? So our share price went from$30 to$40 million.

30:23Now I think today is like$240 million. So it's made quite a big recovery since our lows. and do believe the business has never been more healthier or more sustainable than it is today. So in terms of where we are today, I mean, this year, full year revenue, we're going to be, again, this is all public information, we'll hit roughly about 90 to 100 million revenue. A significant majority of this revenue is coming from IAM8,

30:50Danny Yeung:which is the new brand that we've launched with David Beckham just, yeah, literally 12 months ago, right?

30:57David Beckham:Your new baby, we'll get to that.

30:58Danny Yeung:Yes, yeah.

30:59David Beckham:You've spoken about wanting to build Pernetix, obviously, for the long run. Now, as a public company, obviously, you also report to Wall Street every quarter. It's the age-old question, right? How do you navigate that tension between delivering on short-term investor expectations versus, you know, staying focused on the long-term vision? Give me an example, right? So let's say like 12 months ago, right? So 12 months ago was, you know, when we just launched IMA. I had a lot of investors reach out to me at the time saying, hey, you know, Danny, you should be doing more roadshows, talking to investors, blah, blah, blah, etc.

31:32But my view at that point was, hey, you know what? I didn't have a story to talk about. So there's no point for me to talk to investors if I personally don't believe I have a story to talk about. So I was like, I will talk to these guys in a year. That was my message a year ago. And that's exactly kind of what happened in terms of, hey, in the last past year, I've been very, very focused. on growing the business basically from scratch to where it is today. Market cap, of course, has grown significantly in the past 12 months. Where it was 12 months ago, and now I'm actually going out to talk to more investors

32:07Danny Yeung:because now I have a story to tell, and this is a great growth story.

32:11David Beckham:Yeah, absolutely. So your approach was, you know, let me get heads down on this, and I'll come back to all of you later. Yes. What metrics do you pay most attention to as a leader, I'm curious, to, you know, gauge the company's health? At the core, right? It's basically from revenues to our balance sheet. So I think, again, this year, we're growing immensely fast. We'll hit$90 to$100 million. We also have a very healthy balance sheet. So our balance sheet, we have more than$70 million in cash. We have another$510 in Bitcoin, which is valued at approximately$46,$47 million.

32:46Danny Yeung:So about$117,$120 million in pure cash and liquid assets and zero debt. Yeah, so I think that was also very strategic because early on, a lot of people asked us to take on debt. We always said no to it. And so it makes us in a very good financially health. I think if you look at our loss on a quarterly basis in Q1 of this year, we lost like 6.5 million. Q2, we lost 4.3. Q3, we lost 2.1. So we're cutting 2 million on a quarterly basis. And so all these metrics are very, very positive from a financial health perspective.

33:20David Beckham:Let's turn to IMA. Prenetic's now flagship consumer brand, which recently marked as its first year in business, as you mentioned, it looks like it's already been quite a ride. You previously said in the first month alone, IMA pulled in$600 ,000 in revenue, which later jumped to$6 million in monthly revenue. Now the company says it's on track to do$60 million this year. Do you always know that it was going to be this big or has it surpassed even your wildest dreams and expectations? We weren't in a good position middle of 2023 because, you know, again, COVID died. Our existing business wasn't scaling as fast as I like, you know, because I think we were doing a lot of clinical and genomic tests.

34:03And then with that, it takes a lot of regulatory aspects on very long cycles. Right. So we wanted to create a new business unit. And at that time, we're thinking, OK, what do we do? right and then so i was thinking okay um we had the last 10 years as a science driven organization

34:20Danny Yeung:and it's like is there must be something that we can do in the consumer space and coincidentally i also had uh again this is also by by chance you know i was having dinner with my very good friend michelle lamonier he's the uh you know founder and executive chairman of tatula asia and then we're having dinner one night and he was saying to me hey you know what he was going to meet with David Beckham over dinner in London two weeks time so he asked me to join he asked me hey do you want to come have dinner with David Beckham like hey you know why not right casual that's just casual let's let's let's have a meeting right you know in the back of my mind I was like hey this could be a great opportunity you know to have him join as you know potential doing something together right and so you know I met with David we got along really great with him and his team and then world i think you know what if we take a very science-based approach into the consumer supplements world right and he was also sharing how he was having a lot of difficulty consuming supplements on a daily basis because he would he doesn't he didn't like taking you know 12 13 14 pills him and victoria uh together right and now there must have been a better way to do this and we're like hey i I do believe there is a better way to do this, is that basically we can create a supplement that can replace a lot of these supplements in an easy to consume drink, right?

35:46Danny Yeung:So that's how we came up with IAM8. I think after a good three to four months, then we confirmed to work together and him coming on board as a co-founder of IAM8.

35:59David Beckham:So it really was an idea hatched between the two of you. Correct. There was no product before, there was no name so everything just started from that one conversation and of course you know going back to your question is that you know of course we had projections for the business but we projected in the first year that we're going to have approximately 30 million in full-year revenue and now you know we'll easily cross 60 million in full-year revenue and like you mentioned earlier you know last December when we launched you know we had yeah 600 ,000 in monthly revenue

36:31Danny Yeung:last month we hit 10 million in monthly revenue right so uh it's actually the fastest ever brand in the supplements industry to hit 100 million and a recurring revenue in less than 11 months typically it'll take you till take new uh any new brand do it in three years but we did

36:51David Beckham:it in under one year and to what do you attribute that success because it sounds like even by your own estimates you know you were really pleasantly surprised yes of course so i think you know when When we created the brand I made and we sought out to create literally the best product on the market, coupled with full transparency on the ingredients, the dosages, we saw there was a gap. Because again, I think we made a few bold bets in creating the product, the formulation. And even again, at the time, all the rage was actually green powders. There's Athletic One, AG1, Heal, etc. but so it was been the most easy for us to create just another greens powder but we wanted to be a bit more bold so we came up with im8 still name means i am the 8 means longevity we flip it around and coincidentally due to the ingredients it was red right and then so we created uh this new reds powder and our usp was 16 supplements in one drink and on day one we also recruited the best scientists and doctors and professors around the world right because i think a lot of times when you look at something you don't actually know who's creating that supplement so for example we got dr don muslim from male clinic we got james green the former chief scientist of nasa we got

38:11Danny Yeung:dr david katz from yale so these are normally individuals that don't work with supplement brands just because there's a lot of bad eggs in the industry but for day one for example we did clinical trials, right, that show the efficacy of the product. We got NSF certification for sport, right, which means that if you're a professional athlete, you'll know it's free from 280 band substances tested for heavy metals. Every single ingredient dosage is third party tested to ensure that if it says it has 100 milligrams on the label, it's exactly 100 milligrams in the bottle or in the product, right? So we did all those things from day one.

38:49David Beckham:It's so critical, I think, and something that is actually really overlooked in this space. You know, as someone who moved to America recently, I've been really flabbergasted to see how much of this stuff is still unregulated. So I think it's very refreshing to see that you guys even openly share, you know, third-party testing, for instance. But just to the question earlier, I guess, you know, were there any specific growth drivers, just for anyone out there listening to this, and that was obviously hoping to replicate some form of this success. They don't always have, you know, people back and behind them, certainly.

39:21David Beckham:But is there anything that you would advise? I think for any industry, the first thing you have to understand is how do you create trust and credibility?

39:30Danny Yeung:Right. And then so that's key. Right. Because it's like it doesn't matter how great your product is. You have to be able to basically convey trust and credibility. And so for us, again, having David was a significant. Everyone will pay attention because of David Beckham. Of course, I realize now everyone's going to get a David Beckham. So you have to be able to, in a way, still be able to convey that sense of trust and credibility. And then for us also, we didn't take any shortcuts, right? With the product, because even from a formulation perspective, we could have easily went to a manufacturer.

40:02They could have so many formulations. As for us, you know, we knew we needed a custom formulation created by our scientific team.

40:09Danny Yeung:So you had to have a good product backed by science. You know, we also had a great brand. you know i made you know the branding everything was spot on you know the shape the color uh the box everything all the little details and even if you look at our website every module was specifically created you know with customer experience in mind right um so also from day one we shipped to 31 countries we have all this transparency i think key thing is transparency on their website. We even show who manufactures our product, which is quite unheard of too, right? On the website, because anyone can just go to our manufacturer and we show it with transparency on their website, right?

40:52Danny Yeung:So I think, again, going back to trust, credibility, transparency, and these are things that consumers are seeking out nowadays.

41:00David Beckham:Trust is key. And what has it been like working with Beckham as a partner? Because obviously there's a lot of skepticism at times about whether a celebrity just throws their name on something. has he been quite hands-on to work with? How has it been? So I think the key thing, again, to work with celebrity, again, there's been, I think, more failures than success cases. Because a lot of times celebrities just put their name onto something

41:22Danny Yeung:which they don't believe in or is not authentic, right? But nowadays, I think consumers are so smart to understand what's actually real, what's not real. Especially, again, because these celebrities are out and about, etc. So I think with David, it's such an amazing because he's such an authentic co-founder. He uses the product daily. Victoria uses the product daily. His trainers use the products daily, his family. And then he's sharing with his friends and family. So that becomes a very authentic connection that resonates with the community, right? So, of course, his team is highly involved. We've talked to his team on a weekly basis.

41:58Danny Yeung:So they're not just putting the name to the, just the name, right? So I think it's been quite amazing. there been very detailed in terms of a brand partnerships. The brand, you know, David, you know, tests out all the new formulations before it goes live. And also the taste of the product. He also wants to make sure it doesn't only function, but people enjoy it as well.

42:24David Beckham:Another celebrity you recently brought on is the world's number one female tennis player, Irina Sabalenka. How was that partnership born? I hear there's a great story of you guys meeting in David's box. Yeah. Again, very casual. Correct. Right. So I think, you know, that was also, I think, at least in the last 12 months, another major critical piece to being able to establish trust and credibility, right? Because I think how that relationship came about in early this year, I think it was about January or February, you know, Jason Stacey, Arena's performance coach started taking it for about three to four weeks.

42:57And then he felt great about taking it energy levels, recovery, et cetera. And then he suggested to Irina to try it out. Right. And then she started taking it in, I think for about three months time. And then coincidentally, David invited me to into Miami box and I had to, yeah, I was there. And then next to me was Irina Sabalenka. Right. And then, so she was next to me. I was talking to her and then she was like, oh, you know, what do you do? And she's like, oh, you know, she was very humble. She's like, oh, let's play a little bit of tennis. Right. On the court, she's such a fierce person. But outside of the court, she's just so amazing as a human being.

43:37She makes a lot of jokes, very easy to be around with. And then afterwards, after that, her team reached out to me and said, you know, Irina's been on the product. She loves the product. And can we partner together?

43:50Danny Yeung:And so I think that was also a really great organic and authentic partnership that we cemented in June.

43:58David Beckham:Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how naturally these things seem to come about for you. You know, I'm just so curious because for someone out there listening, right, you just seem like you're kind of known, obviously, I think in Hong Kong circles, especially as like a mover and shaker. You know, you partnered with all these celebrities. from the outside one might wonder how are you even meeting these folks and getting them excited to begin with did you ever kind of hesitate when it came to making the ask or I guess with the arena it sounds like that was them approaching you but you know did you always expect to be operating this kind of orbit because not every founder would necessarily be as bold as to say hey David you want to come on board and be a co-founder right yeah if you never ask you'll always get no right at the same time you have to and again these people they're they're meeting with you have business people all the time they're meeting they're connecting with all the smartest people in the world so i think you have to create value for what you're offering right and you have to be very specific in terms of what you're building out so i think in throughout the whole process whenever you know david asked me a question arena asked me a question i always had an answer and not just an answer i had a good answer that could let them know a you know we know exactly what we're doing and how we're going to go about it and i always try to you know provide to all partners and again i'm not trying to think from a company perspective i'm always trying to how can i or the company create value for you all right um and then in for dave i knew i told him hey you know i know david For example, if you did this, it's going to be a huge reputational risk on you if something were to go wrong.

45:42Danny Yeung:Because no one's going to care about Danny. The reality. I take that with a significant sense of responsibility that I will know that we won't put a product onto the market unless it was the best in the market. I respect and trust so much that people trust me on this. And I always try to deliver, over deliver on that value.

46:04David Beckham:It's fascinating, especially because I'm sure David gets a lot of offers, you know, to be part of stuff like this. And, you know, the fact that he said yes, I think is really testament to the approach that you guys have taken. I want to turn back to Pernetics for a moment because earlier this year, you guys also came out with a huge announcement. In June, you made headlines for announcing the company was pivoting to a Bitcoin treasury strategy. For people who may not follow this closely, what does this actually mean? So what this actually means is that we have our operating business of, you know, now let's say, you know, IMA is the main driver of our operating business that we're going to be focusing on.

46:40Danny Yeung:And given that we have excess cash on top of what we need operationally, we're putting our excess cash into Bitcoin. right and then so for example you know previous to this we are putting a lot of our cash just into jp morgan's like getting 3.5 whatever percentage interest rates yeah and that's you know in some cases yeah inflation could be even greater than that right so instead of putting it in all of our our excess cash and fixed deposits we've chosen to put in excess cash into Bitcoin. We made a$20 million initial purchase in June. And after that, we've been buying one Bitcoin on a daily basis.

47:22Danny Yeung:And that shows you, hey, we're not basically speculative, but we're long-term on the asset because it's a great fit hedge against inflation. If you look at it from a three, five, 10-year horizon, that's the horizon of time that we have. So that's what we've been able to do. And now as of today, I think we have about 510 Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

47:45David Beckham:And just so folks understand, the plan is to also to use these assets to fund your expansion continuously, right? Like, what does that actually look like? Because I understand one of the board members you brought on, Andy Chung, the former COO of a top crypto exchange, has said that it's not just about passive Bitcoin storage. It's not just a buy and hold tactic. There's a lot of different things that you guys are considering when it comes to these assets.

48:07Danny Yeung:Yeah, because I think there's a lot of opportunity to even create yield from the Bitcoin that we purchased, right? on top of just buying and holding. So yeah, it just creates more flexibility and options for us as we continue to grow the business.

48:22David Beckham:Is it a mix of like buying and selling Bitcoin as its value grows just for anyone who might be wondering exactly how this works or is it using Bitcoin as collateral or how does that work? So right now we've only bought and hold,

48:34Danny Yeung:but we are looking to explore creating yield on our Bitcoin, for example, buying cover call options, etc. So we haven't done that yet. But we're exploring opportunities to create yield on top of the Bitcoin.

48:48David Beckham:Watch this space. To many people, health and crypto may seem like completely different worlds. What made you want to kind of marry the two? And what was the reaction, both internally and externally, when you first shared this decision? Were people kind of like, wait, what? I see health and wealth being very connected. Because basically, if you have wealth and you don't have health, it also doesn't really mean that much, right?

49:11Danny Yeung:yeah but again so i think the ideal situations for anyone is that you have both health and wealth so i think this is the most ideal situation um so of course when we first announced it back in june you know there was a lot of you know question marks in terms of again why we were doing this yeah but as long as they understood this a bit more is that hey we're not like in the markets trading every day all right because that would be so time-consuming we're not also speculating on Bitcoin, right? Because otherwise we wouldn't be doing the one BDC dollar cost averaging strategy, right? So, but once they understood it better and they knew, hey, you know what?

49:47Danny Yeung:We didn't raise any debt to acquire the Bitcoin, right? And we still have, again, 70 million cash needed to grow the IMA business further. Then this just gives us a opportunity to be more flexible in the future and have a appreciating asset.

50:02David Beckham:You've said before, the future of health is longevity and the future of wealth is Bitcoin. Can you kind of unpack that? Like, how did you come to this realization? Yeah, longevity is such a big topic, right? I mean, I think typically, you know, people are talking about this when you're getting like 50 and above, right? But now people in their 20s are talking about health and longevity, right? It's not just about living older,

50:29Danny Yeung:it's about having a really good quality of life, even when you're getting to the 60s, 70s and 80s, right? But now there's so much new science that can actually have that potential that everyone can live much healthier, even though you get older, right? Or even like slowing down the aging process. Correct? So I think all these things are possible. Yeah, especially in the last, I would say the last 24, 36 months.

50:55David Beckham:Were you already a holder of Bitcoin personally? And you just realized like, this is really where I think the future is going when it comes to finance. No, I mean, to be honest, I wasn't until early this year. Again, the reality was I have a few good friends that have been in this space for the last 10 years. I just never looked into it. Again, but when I finally looked into it and researched it and understood the limited supply

51:22Danny Yeung:and understood they basically love these other assets going silver or appreciating at a very fast rate, then you know bitcoin and dairy should also appreciate at a similar rate as well and so it's giving them limited supply factor of it right so i feel like you know if you want to protect your wealth yeah that you know bitcoin is a great storage of that love it or hate it it's a bold

51:46David Beckham:bet either way and one that i think speaks to the kind of leader you are i'd be remiss if i didn't note that obviously bitcoin has swung in value quite a bit from above 110k down to 85k just in recent months, you've already alluded to the fact that this happens. I guess, what do you make of that? And what's your response to critics who say, this is too risky? Yeah. So I think volatility will always be there, right? I think, yeah, that's a no brainer, right? And we knew that going into it, right? But at the same time wise, I always believe that, it's a bigger risk if we don't do anything. And this is why we've also did not do any other coins or any of the altcoins or EVE or Solana, but we chose Bitcoin because I believe that's the best storage of wealth piece.

52:39In terms of critics, of course, there has been some. But the reality is, I think right now no one can be critical of it because no one can see the future. Even for myself,

52:50Danny Yeung:I'm the believer in the long-term future of this. We're talking about, again, three, five, 10 years out. I don't think there's anyone that can say, in three, five years out, Bitcoin is going to be$50 ,000,$150 ,000,$500 ,000, right? Who's to say? So I think we'll let the future decide on that. We'll let the market decide on that, right? I think the key thing for us, for people to realize, I said, hey, you know, IM8 has a potential to be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in the world in the next three to five years. I think people should focus on that more. And then Bitcoin is just kind of like the bonus on the top.

53:29David Beckham:You've said that you're inspired by the success of companies like MicroStrategy, which has long been a pioneer in this space. Do you think this kind of strategy could become the norm? I actually do believe it could become the norm because I think all companies are looking at innovation, especially companies that have a growing business. As long as you have additional cash, right? So certainly for companies that doesn't have an operating business, I would find it very difficult for them to put excess cash to Bitcoin because where is the operating business coming from, right?

54:00Danny Yeung:Right. So I think for companies that have an operating business and can generate that cash flow, then I think it's a good opportunity.

54:08David Beckham:And last question on this topic. Is this goal here to ultimately become one of the largest corporate holders of Bitcoin globally? I think for us, less so about that. Right. But I think it's just to have part of our assets into Bitcoin as a hedge against inflation.

54:27Danny Yeung:But ultimately, I think the key thing for us is how do we build IM8 as the main focus now to be one of the world's biggest healthcare supplement brands.

54:36David Beckham:Let's talk about roadmap. What does the next chapter of growth look like for both Prenetics and IM8? So I think probably for pre-netics wise, right?

54:43Danny Yeung:I think I've already probably mentioned this after our Q3 earnings results is that we're looking to divest our non-core assets, which include Europa, Circle of DNA and Insighta because I think for us, I want to make sure that my focus and management focus is all in on IMA because again, we went from zero to 100 million AR in less than 11 months and Viva already projected next year. So full year revenue, we're projecting to$180 to$200 million in revenue, which means that we'll have an ARR of about$300 million in the second year. If I just look at that, it's like, wow, all these other business units, it could be a distraction.

55:29Danny Yeung:So that's why we are in the process of divesting these other non-core assets and just focusing on IAM8.

55:36David Beckham:And with IMAID, is there a certain kind of next lever that you're hoping to pull there? Because I imagine you have grand plans for the next year or anything else, any other sectors you're looking to? Yeah, so I think for IMAE-wise, again, we're right now 100 % direct-to-consumer and it will predominantly stay significant majority direct-to-consumer.

55:55Danny Yeung:But we're just seeing so much growth around the world, right? So like, for example, in the US, it only makes up 40 % of our business. Canada's number two, UK's number three, Australia's number four, Singapore's number five, Hong Kong's number seven. Yeah, so it's truly a global business. But we've just scratched the surface because if you think about it, the global supplement market is a$700 billion market opportunity, right? So while we have had a great head start, there's just so much more opportunity for us. And so in 26, we'll be launching a few new products. But we're not going to be those someone that has like 15, 20 skills, right?

56:33We're also going to be signing up a few new big athlete ambassadors. Anything you can tease? I think it'll be interesting. So, you know, I was just in F1 Abu Dhabi just a few days ago. So I think F1 is a natural evolution for performance.

56:51Danny Yeung:And then the great thing about the athletes is that they have so much choice when it comes to supplements, right? And so it's a great testament. Again, going back to trust and credibility of a brand.

57:01David Beckham:And they care what they put in their body. It's really interesting what you just said, by the way, about your plans to dedicate your focus to IMA. Because I was going to ask originally, with so many irons in the fire, how do you split your time and attention? It sounds like that's your answer, right? You're realizing like, this is where I'm going to go all in for now. Correct. And as you look back on your life and career, you know, what would you go back and tell your younger self, that kid who was selling baseball cards? For everything that you have to work on, you really have to earn it. You can't take anything for granted.

57:31You have to put in the work. You have to put in the research. And you have to be very strategic. and again, everything, there's always a reason for everything. And I think the key thing for me and I always tell the team is that always control what you can. There's a lot that we can't control in business,

57:48Danny Yeung:but there's also a lot that we can control and everything that we can control, we should do that at our best of abilities. When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Host unforgettable backyard barbecues with savings from Whole Foods Market.

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58:54David Beckham:What is the endgame for you here? If we were to sit back down, let's say in 10 years, where would you want Pernetix or IMA to be? Since IMA has launched, there has been so many people that have come to me and said, hey, you know, you're looking to sell IMA, et cetera, et cetera. Why is it like, yeah, to be fair. Already. Yeah, already in context, of course, right? And I was like, yeah, I have no interest into selling IMA. I don't need an exit. I'm looking to build this for the long term wise because I see opportunity to create IMA as not just a supplement brand, but as a lifestyle and community to provide value for our customers and creating a really positive community.

59:33For example, something that we just rolled out

59:36Danny Yeung:in the last two weeks, I believe, again, no supplement brand has been able to do this, is that we rolled out for our quarterly subscribers a 90-day program where you get access to our scientific advisory board and our performance board. So for example, we're going to be offering live Q &A with Dr. Dawn. She's an integrative oncologist at Mayo Clinic, which she'll share longevity tips even for her own journey. She's a stage four cancer survivor, heart transplant recipient, ran a full marathon one year after. And she'll be sharing her tips. And you also hear from Bobby Rich, which is David Beckham, a personal trainer.

1:00:19So imagine getting tips for him on how to train. So your normal individual is not going to have this access, right?

1:00:24Danny Yeung:But we put together a really amazing group that are able to share and provide value to our customers.

1:00:31David Beckham:That interactive element really coming into play here. That's really fascinating. I think leveraging the access that you guys have already had and all the expertise that you've got on board. You've already had interest from other players and maybe scooping this up, seeing the success you've had? Yeah. So I've had like so many emails or people reaching out to me and saying, you know what? Are you interested to sell on you, man?

1:00:51Danny Yeung:And so I've actually taken zero calls in that regards because, again, I'm not interested in a quick exit here. We're building this for the long term. And this is very, very, very likely my last company. Yeah. So I think with that, I want to go all in on this and build this to a truly global brand.

1:01:14David Beckham:Well, you heard it here first. All right. This brings me to a segment we're calling What It Takes, where an audience member gets to ask for advice or hear more on what it takes to get where you are. Today, Jeskirin Grawal, founder of Umama, a protein drink business based in Los Angeles, asks, for an emerging CPG brand, one of the biggest early hurdles is finding the right manufacturer, someone who can deliver on quality and is willing to take a chance on a young company. When you were starting out, how did you identify a co-manufacturer that was the right fit for your needs? And how did you approach negotiating MOQs and payment terms?

1:01:48Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, finding a girlfriend right yeah you have to just talk to as many people as you want yeah i mean you have to talk to as many manufacturers as possible right so i think when we you know

1:02:00Danny Yeung:finally selected our co-manufacturer it was through a process at least i talked to at least 20 30 different manufacturers before settling in on our current contract manufacturer understanding their current customer base and if they is someone that can scale with you as well right so i think again the contract manager we selected i would say is much more premium manufacturer because i think for us that was also important it wasn't about always finding the lowest costs right because if you always look for lowest costs there will always potentially be some shortcuts taken right so to be finding the one that matches with your brand ethos and someone that can actually grow with you right because the last thing you want is that if you select contract manufacturer and then six months in you know for some reason they're not accustomed to that growth or scale, they can't grow with you, then you'll be, yeah, even though you may be saving some money here and there wise, right?

1:02:57Danny Yeung:It'll be much difficult to switch in that process.

1:02:59David Beckham:So take the long view as well, right?

1:03:01Danny Yeung:Yes, correct. Yeah.

1:03:02David Beckham:Thank you, Danny. Now we're going to do a quick rapid fire round. Don't overthink it. Just say whatever comes to mind. Ready? Remote, hybrid, or in office?

1:03:09Danny Yeung:Hybrid.

1:03:10David Beckham:What's one health trend you think is overhyped?

1:03:13Danny Yeung:Cold plunging.

1:03:14David Beckham:What's one wellness ritual you never skipped?

1:03:16Danny Yeung:I am eight.

1:03:18David Beckham:How do you mentally prepare before a big event?

1:03:20Danny Yeung:I don't think too much about it.

1:03:22David Beckham:It'll get done. What do you like to ask when hiring? I have so many questions as hiring, right? It's really understanding their motivations. What's one piece of advice you come back to often? Yeah, control the controllables. No wonder you're so zen now. Yeah. Thank you, Danny. Well said. I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you very much, Michelle. Thanks for joining us on Behind the Business. For more stories on business and leadership, Follow our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.