NBC News anchor Vicky Nguyen: From Vietnamese refugee to TODAY Show

27:22So, like, I think that that is good advice for anything that you're doing. If you can do a little bit extra, if you can rise to the occasion, if you can show that you're capable of different things. There are so many things around the corner that are happening in a workplace at any given time that you'll never know about. But your bosses are watching. Your co-workers are watching. Your team leaders are watching. and then when that door opens they're like oh you know what let's bring michelle in let's bring vicky in because you've already been doing it right and so that was how i got into special projects reporting and then when they formed an investigative unit they asked me to join that and it was literally just an extension of like doing what i did and doing it to the best of my ability and being ready when the time came absolutely and also if if you see a position that you know that you want and you're you think you can do it go for it yeah even if it's a stretch assignment go for it you know you will rise to the occasion you'll figure it out you'll figure it out it's so true that you should always if you want to change your job you should try to find a way to make that job yours already and you've seen doing that job totally i remember before i became a reporter at cnn i was doing um you know digital production they call it programming it's like a euphemism for digital production and um i would volunteer to write news stories that they didn't have hands for which was pretty much all the time because there's so much news every single day and And after, I think, a year and a half of doing that, just like on the side for free, the bosses were like, you don't have to keep doing this.

28:43You know, we see you. How would you like a promotion? How would you like to come back to editorial fully? Amazing. You know, so I totally get what you're saying. And you just find a way to make it work if you want it badly enough. If you want it badly enough, exactly. You learn. And you're always, you know, when you're doing those stretch assignments, doing a little bit extra, it benefits you. It helps you build your own portfolio of skills as well. Yeah, absolutely. While we're reflecting on your career, has there been a mistake you've made on the job, big or small, that taught you something really important?

29:12I mean, I've made, I'm sure, many mistakes. I try not to make mistakes when it comes to the factual reporting aspect of what I do. Of course. I try not to make a mistake when I am interviewing people and trying to be respectful to them because there was a time when we were covering, you know, veterans who were being killed overseas during the Afghanistan war or, you know, we would be going to people's houses on like the worst day of their lives because they had lost a family member for whatever reason. And through those experiences, I certainly learned how you can cover the news and be a journalist, but be a human being first.

29:54And so I tried really hard not to make those human errors and tried to treat people the way I'd want somebody to treat my own mom. But I would say that one of the biggest learning experiences for me, I covered in the chapter called The Hot Intern in the book, Bo Baby, because that was a turning point for me. I was a reporter at the Fox station in Phoenix, Arizona at the time And I regularly had interns coming through and they'd come through for a few months and they'd come with me on my shoots And I would make sure that they got to shoot their stand-ups Which is as you know when you go onto a scene The photographer takes video of you and you kind of say a little bit of something about like As you can see the power lines came down in the storm last night and they're sprawled across the street here You know, whatever you're just trying to make a resume tape And so interns need that on-camera experience as much as possible.

30:45I would always coach them. I would always help them. Until I got this one intern. And she was like 5 '9", a gorgeous blonde woman who was literally like a pageant winner. Like she had won like Miss Maricopa County or something like that, right? And by the way, not only was she a pageant winner, she was also a personal fitness model as her job. And so I was like, okay. She had, to me, all the advantages in the world. Good looking, smart. And I just found myself not being as helpful to her as I had been to all my other interns. I would still take her out on shoots. I wasn't mean to her or anything.

31:25But I just wasn't getting out of the truck and coaching her. I'd be like, okay, go shoot your stand-ups. I'll be here just on my phone or whatever I was doing. She did her internship. She left. and I just remember when she left I felt like wow that was that was ugly like why did I treat her not kind as kindly as I treated all my other interns and I was like you know I was jealous of her I was threatened by her and it was such an ugly feeling it did not feel like who I was or who I wanted to be and I just remember thinking in that moment like I I won't get a chance to apologize to her I don't know her like I don't remember her name now I hope she reads the book someday and like lets me give her a proper apology.

32:04But in that moment, I said to myself, I'm never going to treat somebody like that again, because I'm not going to be a five foot nine blonde woman, right? Like she's going to go on to be successful and do whatever it is that she's going to do. Her success doesn't take away from my success. And I need to like not worry about that, right? Let that go. Let her be the best at being herself. I'll be the best at being myself. And there's enough to go around for everyone. And thank God I recognized that in my 20s. because it has helped me so much in my career. I celebrate other people's success, especially other women's success, especially other women of color, because I can relate to them deeply.

32:42I know the challenges that they've overcome. And I just recognize it's not a zero-sum game. And that was a big epiphany for me early on in a career that is very visual, that is very competitive. You see where everyone is at all times. Oh my gosh, Michelle, she's at CNN. I'm still in local. You know, oh, Michelle, she won this award. I didn't win this award. You could do that to yourself and compare and despair all day long. But if you just run your own race and you compete against yourself and you try to be better than you were yesterday, that's the best headspace to be in, frankly. And that honestly is what I think has propelled me to where I am today is I'm not busy worried about all these other people and what everyone else is doing.

33:23I'm just focused on me, my family. What can I do? How do I make my corner of the earth better? And it's absolutely worked out. Thousand percent. You realize that comparison is a thief of joy. Totally. And what you said about realizing it's not a zero-sum game really resonates with me because that was something I felt like I really had to remind myself of so many times over the years. And now a quick word about our sponsor, Factor. It's officially fall, which means we're all getting back in the swing of things, and I couldn't be busier. So finding time to cook can be tough. And that's why I love Factor.

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34:39Get delicious ready-to-eat meals delivered with Factor. This offer is only valid for new Factor customers with the code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchases. At the same time, you know, conversely, one of my mentors at CNN was actually a really amazing woman called Christy Lou Stout, and she's kind of like the face of CNN Asia. She's been an anchor for like 25 years and just really amazing. We got on really well. But she would always tell me that, you know, just because there's one of us here doesn't mean there can only be one of us. Men don't think that way whatsoever. No way. How many white men are there in every kind of position?

35:14And they're not like, oh, no more white guys here. Yeah, exactly. So I always wondered where that came from. And maybe part of it is a scarcity mindset. You know, a lot of like immigrant families and stuff. Totally. So much unpacked there. But conditioning of women and, you know, the competition between women and all of it. I totally agree. And I'm so happy that you're breaking the cycle. I'm trying to break the cycle because there's room for so many of us. And the more, the merrier. Absolutely. Well, working in live TV is one of the most demanding environments there is. How do you deal with the pressure?

35:43You know, are there certain small ways that you like to set yourself up for success behind the scenes, whether it's through a grounding morning routine or any kind of like even small ritual before a big event? Preparation is everything. I think my confidence comes from being as ready as possible for any situation. And news is one of those where you inevitably will walk into a lot of situations that are volatile, unpredictable. You don't know what to expect. And so you have to embrace it. I am glad that I've gotten the conditioning that I have that life is full of changes. News is full of changes.

36:17And the more adaptable you are and adaptive you can be, I think the easier you can take everything in stride. So for me, the ritual is just making sure I know my subject matter the best that I can. And to have faith in the fact that I've been doing this for 25 years and I will figure it out. And that like I don't strive for perfection. You know, I just strive to be human. I try to ask the questions I think the viewers are going to have at home. And I do my best and I forget the rest. I think that's like a mantra that my kids taught me that they learned in like elementary school. But I just love it because that's all that we really can do.

36:54Yeah, you're full of these good kickers today. It's very broadcast of you. Let's talk money. Vicki, you've been remarkably open about the importance of knowing your worth and navigating the workplace. Um, once while negotiating your contract, you had a colleague tell you to ask for way more and literally take out his own contract to show you his exact salary. You called it one of the most surprising and life changing things anyone's ever done for me. How so? I mean, there is nothing like seeing black and white numbers when it comes to negotiating for yourself. and thanks to Mika Brzezinski and her whole campaign for women to know your value.

37:33I have always tried to be a proponent for everyone I know to share information because knowledge is power and to do your homework so that when you have to go in and advocate for yourself and negotiate for yourself that you have real data numbers to back it up. In some businesses, it's much easier to do, right? Like in finance, you can say, I've brought in X number of dollars of business. Therefore, I should be making X number of dollars as a percentage. Broadcast is a lot more gray. Most professions are really gray. So to the extent possible that you can form alliances with your colleagues that are willing to share that information, it's great.

38:18In states where they have salary transparency laws, that's fantastic. It's so empowering to workers. And also, like, I think you don't necessarily have to know exactly what your peers make dollar for dollar in the same job. That can make it a little bit awkward. But you can ask someone who is 10 years ahead of you in the game, hey, when you were in my job 10 years ago, what was a ballpark range for, you know, a person to be making? And does that make sense? Because sometimes the number can knock your socks off like it did for me. My colleague was incredible. I call him angel in the book because he did not hesitate to tell me what he thought my value was, how good of a job he thought I was doing, and then to back it up by pulling his contract out of a file cabinet and literally showing me.

39:02And he was making like$50 ,000 more than I was for, I mean, at the time we were doing very comparable work. arguably my work was more essential to the station at the time because the whole branding of the station was around the investigative unit and I was like a leading member of that team so because he was so open and transparent with me it gave me all the chutzpah and data and confidence I needed to go in there like full you know with my full chest out saying like hey this is what I'm worth This is what I deserve. This is what I'm asking for. And I was lucky, too, because at the time, eventually I did have a counteroffer from somewhere else.

39:42So I had leverage and I had knowledge. And when you can negotiate from a position of power like that, things are going to go better for you. And it's up to you to collect that data. It's up to you to form those relationships. And it's up to you to also share. You know, this isn't just information is a two way exchange. And so there are many ways that we can help each other in the workforce. And I purposely wrote very transparently about that because I do think that so many of us are undervalued for what we do. And we have some responsibility in that. Companies have a lot of responsibility in that and properly paying their employees as well.

40:17It really struck me because several years ago when you were still working in local news, CNN offered you a correspondent position for you actually disclose between$215 ,000 to$235 ,000 a year. Yeah. Though it would have meant packing your bags, moving, uprooting your family. I believe you said that, you know, it sounds like a lot and it is. But the cost of living in New York and L.A., plus the expense of relocating, meant the offer wasn't make-me-move money. I think people would be surprised to hear you ultimately turned that offer down, despite it being, I think it's fair to say, a huge jump in your career at the time.

40:51And obviously no guarantee of another network job lined up. How tough was that decision? It was very tough. We spent a whole spring break in San Diego. We were traveling with another family at the time that the offer came. so I was very distracted because you know like you've got this job offer you need to make a decision they're not going to wait forever and it was the first network job offer I'd ever gotten and at the time I had two daughters and I was like in my late 30s and you know I thought time is ticking I don't know if I'm ever going to get another network offer but the job ultimately wasn't the best fit for our family you know my husband had a great job that he loved I really loved my investigative reporting job in the Bay Area.

41:33And I felt like I had a longer runway. I still felt like I was growing and learning, even though it was in local news. I had so much autonomy. I was doing really impactful stories. And so, yes, CNN is CNN and it's the network. And, you know, it was an incredible opportunity. But ultimately, I wouldn't have had my third daughter if I had gone to the network. I'm sure I would have been too busy. I would have been living out of a suitcase, I would have been a general assignment reporter sort of responding to breaking news. But instead of only doing it in Northern California, I would have been in an airplane flying all over the place.

42:07And lo and behold, I stayed, I had my third daughter. And then my dream job became available the job that I'm working in now. And so that's what I mean when it's like, you've got to go with your gut, make the decisions that are the best for you in the moment and and not stress too much about like the what ifs, right? And at that time, it was a lot of pros and cons. It was a lot of back and forth. My husband was a great sounding board. And ultimately, we decided it wasn't worth it. It wasn't going to be worth the sacrifice of making all of these changes. And it wasn't a job that would have allowed me to do the life changing reporting that I was already doing, you know, as an investigative journalist at NBC Bay Area.

42:48Yeah, you spoke about balancing priorities as a working mom with a family to think about and the lifestyle you wanted at that point. Do you think over the years you came to redefine what personal success really meant to you? Oh, for sure. I mean, I just heard golfer Scotty Scheffler give this press conference and it's been going viral because he talks about he loves golf. He loves playing for the championships and winning. But all of that excitement, he was like, it lasts like two minutes. You know, it's like, OK, I won this cup. I won this open. I won this whatever. And then, you know, A few minutes later, it's like, what are we having for dinner tonight?

43:25Life goes on. And while it is exciting to accomplish your goals, you cannot get your fulfillment from external validators, right? And I agree with him wholeheartedly. And I feel glad that I also sort of recognize that early on. Work hard, enjoy what you do, try to make a difference. But don't use awards and external markers to measure your worth. My worth comes from what kind of a mom am I? What kind of a wife am I? What kind of a daughter am I? What kind of a person am I in my community? And what am I doing for the people around me? Because we know this is a very volatile industry. Things come and go.

44:09And you can't let your work define who you are because that can be sort of an empty way to live. you should find that satisfaction and fulfillment from the purpose-driven life that you're leading. And I think when you turn that introspection inward, it's just so much more validating than trying to get to the next mountaintop. Do it. Great. Do it for, you know, for the exercise of it, sure. And enjoy those accomplishments, but don't let them define who you are. Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things don't go according to plan. It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation.

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45:36The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Yeah. What's been one of the hardest days of your whole career? I definitely know a hard period. And I would say that it really did have to do with towards we were in the pandemic and we were reporting and it was just watching the rise in anti-Asian discrimination. and then the Atlanta spa shootings happened and these women were all targeted by a mass shooter or a psychopath and they were all Asian women just literally who had showed up at their jobs to earn a living for their families. And I remember that being a really tough period of time because not only is everyone dealing with the pandemic blues and just like the isolation and the lack of human connection and the uncertainty of living in a worldwide pandemic, but then I was seeing people who look like my parents, people who look like me being yelled at in the streets with racist, you know, insults, being physically attacked, elderly people being pushed down, being killed for being Asian and, you know, being associated with the coronavirus.

46:43And I think that was probably the most challenging time of being an Asian American reporter in New York City, ground zero, and trying to come to grips with like, how much of myself am I allowed to bring into my reporting? How much of my identity, you know like is everybody seeing this happening what's my responsibility to make sure that these stories are being covered that this fbi data that yes indeed there is a spike in hate against asian americans that we are doing our part because i you know i had never really done a lot of identity reporting i've always lived my life and also worked in my career as like you are not the story you are there to cover the story and so this was a blending of you know how do you do that because you are a part of the community.

47:26But sometimes being from the community makes you even more equipped to cover it like in the most thoughtful and nuanced way. And so that was both a dark time, but also a great moment of evolution for me as a journalist and as a person. 100%. Let's talk about the book. I think a huge reason that you've resonated so much with audiences, that you really open up and go there where many people frankly wouldn't, right? I mean, you've shared everything from crying on a plane after an argument with your dad to tough conversations with bosses to intimate family moments. Has it ever felt uncomfortable being that open?

48:02I think that it's very on brand for me in my life because that's just how I have always lived my life. I'm not a good poker face. I'm not a bluffer. You know how I feel because I do wear my heart on my sleeve. And I have found And for me, being open, being transparent, sharing my vulnerabilities, it's not only who I am, but I like greeting the world in that way because I feel like it fosters deeper connections. And I hate small talk. I hate surface conversations. I like to get in and get in deep and get in quick because you have so much I can learn from. And I might have some things to teach you.

48:43And we're never going to get there if all we do is like, oh, you know, how about the Yankees are like, you know, that's a nice dress. Great. The pleasantries are fine. But like then let's talk about what makes you tick. How did you get to be where you are? What was your upbringing like? Those are the meaningful conversations. And because I have these three daughters and I get to meet so many interesting people that I wouldn't otherwise cross paths with because of what I do. I love getting into it with them. Like, what did you study? You know, what was your childhood like? because then I get to go home and share those stories with my girls and by extension educate them about all the different kinds of people and lives that are possible to live in this one great life that you have and so for me the quickest way to get from A to B is to do it with honesty and being open and so I don't really have a problem with that like it's just kind of like the way that I live.

49:32Yeah well looking ahead what's the end game for you here if we were to sit back down and say 10, 20 years, what would you want to be saying? Where would you want to be? It's so interesting. I do believe in like having a dream board and trying to manifest. I think that's so cool, like the vision board and all of that. And I just recently made one like a few years ago and I look at it and I'm like, wow, a fair amount of these things actually happen. So I'm all for that. I also love what you were saying about just leaving space and being open and allowing good things to come into your life because you can't plan for everything.

50:06And it's okay to have some of those question marks because sometimes those question marks and dreams and things that come true are bigger than anything that you could have even have dreamt for yourself. That's happened for me so many times. So I would like to say that in 10 to 20 years, I hope that I continue to be healthy. My family continues to be healthy. That my daughters grow into caring, kind, compassionate, curious people. and then I feel as much love for what I'm doing in my job as I do now. Like I feel very fortunate and love what I do. The interviews I get to do, the stories I get to tell, the people I get to work with, I am very in love with this job and it was a huge risk to take it six years ago and to move my whole family from California to New York, including my parents, and it was a gamble.

50:58But I think every day that the gamble is paying off and I'm super happy that this is like what I'm doing. So I hope to continue doing this and it may be in the form of continued broadcasting and anchoring and reporting. It may be in the form of podcasting. It could be another book. I leave all of those content possibilities open. I just hope to continue building an audience and continuing to put information out there that helps people in their lives. It's really inspiring. What does it mean to be a Vietnamese American woman in a national newsroom, particularly knowing how far your family came to get here?

51:39I noticed in a testimonial for your book, fellow NBC anchor Savannah Guthrie said you actually personify the American dream to her. Is that how you see it as well? For sure. I mean, like, I believe the American dream is very much alive and well. And I know people are cynical and people are critical and people have all kinds of thoughts when you say American dream. What is it? And, you know, can people attain it? But as one who is living it, as one who knows what it means to have the opportunity to grow up in this country, I think very much it is alive, well, and something that these are the kinds of stories we should continue to tell and share.

52:21and celebrate. And I do believe that what makes America great is our diversity. The fact that people come from different cultures and ideologies and religions and backgrounds and have different food and languages. All of that is what makes the tapestry of America so rich and incredible. And that diversity has led to so much incredible innovation. America is unlike any other place in the world. That's why people want to come here. And I know that the American spirit and the generosity of the American people is still alive. And I refuse to take the cynical view and the cynical path because I know what my life is like and I know what it has been for me.

53:04And I just hope to inspire people to continue to believe, to continue to work hard towards their dreams. No one's going to hand you anything. But at the same time, if you were born in many other countries, you could work really hard and never achieve half of what people are allowed to achieve here. Right. And so I think it's all relative. It's all perspective. It's all keeping in mind that we are very fortunate to be here and we have a lot of agency and freedom. And what we do with it is up to us. Yeah. All right. This brings me to a segment we're calling What It Takes, where an audience member gets to hear more on what it takes to get where you are.

53:39Today, Sophie, a journalist based in Seoul, South Korea, asks, as an Asian woman working in media, I'm really inspired by how you've embraced both your background and your ambition. How did you confidently advocate for yourself, especially when it came to, we spoke about this earlier, negotiating salary or pushing for bigger roles in spaces that weren't always built for someone like you? And what helped you stay grounded? it? I think that you have to practice as with anything else. It is practicing by showing up at the meeting and saying, I'm going to say one thing at this meeting, one thing I'm going to make myself show up and make my voice heard.

54:15And that's what gets you comfortable in a room with managers, bosses, producers, your peers, whoever, right, is by just forcing yourself to do the thing that is uncomfortable to you. And then after a while, it's not so uncomfortable. After a while, it just becomes a part of who you are. There is a difference between Eastern cultures and Western cultures. A friend of mine, Jessica Chen, who was a reporter, wrote a book called like Smart Not Loud. And it talks about kind of the quiet leadership, the quiet confidence, the way that a lot of Asian Americans show up in the workplace and how different it can be from, you know, people from Western cultures where you are loud and assertive and that's like considered normal, you know, and it's different from being sort of reserved and observant and respectful.

55:00But there are ways for you to be successful and to bring your traits to the workplace that can help propel you forward. So I would say do the things that make you feel uncomfortable. Learn from the people that you admire in your workplace. I mean, schedule a coffee, make yourself useful, ask questions. We are not all meant to have all the answers. And so whenever we see people who are doing something amazing, study what they're doing. If they're willing to talk with you about it, ask them, you know, how they do what they do and collect as much of that information as possible and then form those relationships.

55:39Nobody gets anywhere by themselves. Right. It's a team effort. If Angel had never shared his salary with me, I never would have had the confidence to negotiate for myself. but he did that because we had a relationship because we were friendly because we vented to each other talk to each other and so I think it is really putting out the great energy that you hope to receive back and building those relationships that ultimately helps you be prepared and helps you find that confidence from within and you and give yourself grace you're not gonna bat a thousand all the time but you gotta get the bat up there and take the swing yes thank Thank you, Vicky.

56:14Now we're going to end with a quick rapid fire round. Ready? Dream interview subject, living or dead? Ooh, gosh, I should have. There's so many people that I want to interview for so many reasons. It's a hard one. Right now, I'm a little bit obsessed with AI. So I say Sam Altman, I'd like to pick his brain. I'd like to pick Mark Zuckerberg's brain because I'm also really interested in social media and the effects that it's having on this generation of kids that's growing up. And I'm really curious what Mark and Priscilla are doing when it comes to social media and their own kids and their own families.

56:49I've gotten to interview a lot of like amazing Asian American leaders. So I feel fortunate that I got to interview like Natalie Nicosi, the first WNBA coach, who's Asian American. So sorry, I'm really bad at rapid like, you know, I like to prepare. But I would say yeah, I would like to interview some of the thought leaders in the spaces of AI and social media because we rarely get to hear from them answering really pointed questions. Totally. Especially about the ethics of the technologies that they're spearheading. Biggest on-air blooper or surprise? Has there been one? I've had so many bloopers, I'm sure.

57:27During the pandemic, for sure. Bloopers where like the kids come in, the dogs come in and that kind of thing. Biggest surprise would be when my book Boat Baby came out, the producers of The Third Hour were so kind and they got my husband to record my daughters. wishing me congratulations and a little recorded message. And that was very sweet. What's something people would be surprised to learn about you? Well, after reading Boat Baby, not much. But I think maybe as a reader, you were surprised by the level of rawness and transparency with which I tell my story. Totally. I think a lot of times people see someone on television and think, oh, you know, you've got it all together or you're doing this or you're so polished.

58:09but we're messy. We're full of self-doubt. We've made mistakes. I think that the more human you can be and the more honest you can be about the mistakes and setbacks that you've experienced and what you've learned from them, the deeper a connection you can make. And so I think people would be surprised to learn that I have screwed a lot of things up and I've learned a lot and that I'm willing to go there. Yeah. What's a piece of advice you often come back to? be the best you that you can be. It really starts there. And do your best and forget the rest. I find those two mantras to be extremely liberating.

58:49They're great guiding forces. They're grounding. And they allow me to focus on the task at hand without getting too into my head or stressed about things that I can't control. Well said. Vicky, thank you so much. I've enjoyed this. Same. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. Thank you. Thanks for joining us on Behind the Business. For more stories on business and leadership, follow our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.

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