'Not just hand sanitizer': How Touchland built an $880 million brand

26:49So, for instance, with respect, why should a consumer purchase a Touchland hand sanitizer for between$10 to$16 versus, let's say,$249 for Purell? correct I think like in regards of the pricing touchline offers a lot of benefits that the 249 doesn't offer like again like the formulation again it's good for your skin it comes like with fragrances again that are uplifting that they are developed by Givadan perfume house which is one of the top perfume houses in the world it's a capless experience it's not a goopy experience you can put it in your pocket it's a lot of benefits that really create that experience on top of that not only the product benefits, it's what people also connect.

27:33It's the whole brand, like being part of a much larger community, the social media, like the fund that we have with it, the partners that we have created. It really has created a 360 experience. So for us, like, it's very fun because it's, as I said, it's not a demographic, it's a psychographic. Not everyone is going to buy the same phone, not everyone. And you can have people thinking the phone that everyone uses may not be the best, but again, it's what you look for that. Like in my case, when I look for the product that I use, it's like user experience for other, maybe the gigabytes that the phone has.

28:10So it is about really creating something for your audience. And for us is that surprise and delight. We want to get to people that really looks to inspire their everyday, that moment of happiness. And again, it's not just a functionality. Like if you just want to sanitize your hands, but you're not looking to really have this elevated experience, most probably you're not going to end up buying Dutchland. But I think that's also feeling comfortable about building a brand that is designed for people that really understand and appreciate those surprise and delight moments. Knowing your customer in a really deep way.

28:47Correct. And I'm actually curious, do you even see Purell and Dettol and the like, your direct competitors anyway? Would you say that in some ways they're not even the same direct competitors? Tocelan offers a beauty forward experience. So we don't really, if we think about our retail distribution partners, Tocelan is, I would say, the only. If not, there's two, three brands of hand sanitizer that they sell because they are in the business of beauty and skincare. So what Tocelan has been able to do is really create a category within beauty and skincare for personal care. And so that's why we don't even compete in the same channels.

29:27That most of them, they sell through pharmacies, supermarkets. Like, Touchland has decided to really open up a different distribution strategy. How did you manage to convince folks to get on board with the concept that this, it was entirely new at the time, wasn't it? That this was a beauty product. Obviously, the skincare benefits that you've outlined are really visible. But for instance, when you first went to pitch stores like Sephora or Ulta, what did that look like? Did they get it right away? Or was it kind of like, hey, that's nice, but why don't you try CVS down the road? I feel like we've been very fortunate that the product does most of the work.

30:06Like even if you see, we see content creators that buy the product to review it. And then like they start off like, I don't get the hype with this. And sanitizer, I've seen it everywhere. Then they open it. Oh, oh. So that transformation from skepticism to I did not imagine that I would be so surprised and excited about it happens with a couple of sprints. So I feel with our retailers, we've been fortunate enough that they've been evangelist of the brand, users of the brand. And they loved it. And so, again, and they also made a bet on us. Like when we met with Ulta in the end of 2019, I mean, we didn't have any large distribution partner.

30:49And then they were like, we're going to give you the chance. We're going to launch you outdoors and see what happens. And we launched and we sold out within weeks. And let's talk about retail, actually, because you went into conventional retail fairly early on, which can be seen as a scary place for many founders that tend to, you know, want to stay direct to consumer online. How did you decide to make that leap? So we took one year before we went to retail. We started with a D2C because we wanted to know our consumers. I mean, one of the things that we were most fascinated about is how we transform the way people buy personal care.

31:26Like when you think about personal care and the other end or anything, you usually buy one at a time and you buy the next where you're running low. When we launched our day to see, one of the things that we saw is the average order value was four, five, six units at a time. So people was buying the same functional bottle for five. So we started calling customers and asking, hey, why are you buying five at a time? Like, are you stocking them for the next six months? And people was telling us either it was buying for friends and family, which is very unique in the personal care space. Like, I don't know if I would be happy if someone would give me a pack of the other ones.

32:05Maybe there was a subliminal messaging in there. But we truly transform how personal care can be giftable and exciting. And the second element is like, no, I buy multiple scents because one day I feel like I want to wear one scent and another day I want to wear another scent. So that capability to really select out of a wide array of sense, depending on how you feel that day, is also the reason why we got such a high average order value. And then we started receiving calls from retailers and so on. And that's where you need to make the right choices. Like for us, we've always taken a very disciplined approach into everything that we do.

32:43Everything that we do, there has to be a reason why. So when we thought about distribution, you cannot make a small mistake. Like everything that you do builds up to the brand image. So for us, we knew we have to grow within prestige beauty partners. And that's why we started working with Ulta very early on. We launched in Bloomingdale's, like in places that they didn't sell hand sanitizer at the time. Well, that. And I do want to note, it's also extremely rare for brands to be available at both Sephora and Ulta. It's quite a win for you. you know given what it requires to not just succeed in one but also the fact that they often ask brands for exclusivity can you talk a little bit about how you managed to navigate those conversations and secure both and what were some of the thoughts behind the decision to go for both so i think we knew one of the dreams for the brand is touchline should be in every pocket and i think like for us making the product available in a very disciplined way it's it's very important and because we know that with the growth that we've had with a very extreme line discipline approach most brands would have opened the gates and sold the product everywhere we've been very disciplined about controlling how do we grow where do we sell and so on so we started with Ulta they supported us through their accelerator program they have been a phenomenal partner of us And as we continue to expand, we also met with Sephora.

34:13I think because of the category and the wide opportunity for the brand, they understood that Touchland was going to be a brand that was going to be distributed in multiple retailers. And they have been supporting the growth, both of them, for the last years. So, Andrea, Touchland has had a remarkable run. The company has now scaled to$100 million in annual sales. And I got to believe that was a pinch me moment for you. What was your reaction when you first saw you'd crossed that milestone? I wish I could say that I was like super excited and all that. I think like because I have such a big pressure, like the moment you keep growing, the pressure keeps growing.

35:00And I feel a lot of people around me say like you should have those moments of celebration and so on. for me every time that we continue to grow the backpack is heavier and I feel it was an amazing moment but I'm also someone that is like okay what's next the moment that we reach a certain milestone I celebrate but I'm always on the eye of okay let's go on to the next one and that is something that I need to work on that a lot of people have said you should just stop, pause and celebrate the moment but I feel because it's such a big responsibility, it's always that concern inside that you have of wanting to protect it, wanting to make sure that you can continue growing and not ever getting too full about growth.

35:47Because a lot of people, when they reach certain milestones, they are starting to think that they are untouchable, and you're always touchable. You always can lose what you have. Because I've been there, I guess. is because it comes from what I saw with my family of going miles and miles of growth and then pull back to square one. So I think it is a good thing because it enables me to always have a feet on the ground and yes, be very aware and to really feel accomplished, but at the same time, also to understand that it's not about a certain number. For me, it's every day, the journey, the team meetings.

36:26That's what really fuels me. results come of doing a good job. And that's for me, like that has been my approach to business of really enjoying more of those moments with the team when we launch a product, the stress, the nerves and all that rather than crossing certain dollar milestones because I believe that if you focus on doing something very well financial goals will come after. But if you focus on financial goals you may miss all of the fun and all of the journey. What has meant the most to you throughout this process? Has there been anything that's really stood out as like, wow, that was really something?

37:06To me, to create a product, the ultimate goal is to make people's life a little bit better. And I feel for me, what I feel more accomplished is when I go on socials and I see all of these people and videos and kids getting dressed off touchline for Halloween. Those things are mind-blowing to me. I text them personally on Instagram. I'm like, thank you. And they're like, oh my gosh, my daughter saw your comment. You made her day. And I'm like, no, she made my day. I truly feel like the way customers have loved the brand is to me the wow moment. And it's a warm moment that happens every day when I visit socials, when I see videos like that is, again, the reason why I have gone through every single wall that I've encountered for the last year.

37:58And you did all this with a fairly lean organization, too. Remind me how many employees you currently have full time? Thirteen. Wow. One, three. Yeah. To get here with a relatively small team is pretty remarkable. To what do you attribute that success and how have you done it, quite frankly? So the reason, again, how we've grown the team is I founded this business with my husband. We are the yin and yang. He's always been the systems, the process, the operations. And I am more like the energy, the sales, the strategy, and so on. And we balance each other very well. And we have been able to build a business that is extremely efficient.

38:37Like part of the reason why we've been able to do it with such a lean team is we implemented very early on an ERP system, NetSuite, which usually companies tend to wait much longer. And then it's more chaotic to try to bring all those Google sheets and all that into the system. So I think doing that at such an early time enabled us to be able to scale so quickly in operations and so on. And then I've built a team of, again, people that has a lot of ownership, that has a lot of hunger, that really is passionate about the brand. And we're growing the team, but we also take time because we feel such an amazing culture that you also want to protect that at all costs.

39:21And whenever we are in the process of hiring, like everyone is, again, gets involved because we want to make sure that, again, everyone that starts in the business really contributes to that greed and excitement and never settling for what we have. So that's why it's hard also because in Miami, we're hiring in Miami and in office. So that has limited also our growth. but right now we're hiring a couple of people and again little by little and making sure that each individual really plugs perfectly well into the team. So good, so good, so good. New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack Stores now.

40:02Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off brands like Rag & Bone, Levi's, Adidas and Free People. Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Good sleep is everything. That's why Oli's Science Bag Support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-theanine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Oli's sleep solutions for the whole family at Oli.com.

40:42That's O-L-L-Y dot com. Anything you look for in particular when you're scouting for those new team members, especially since when you do bring them in, you know, it sounds like they're a family to you. It's a very tight organization. Yeah, I was listening to a podcast the other day and they said that brands should look at team members like a sports team. because I think like I remember that I heard that they said if you if you treat them like family like you sometimes don't like someone in your family but you have to take that member of the family because it's part of the family but it's if you think about sports teams it's about like a group of performing individuals that contribute to a much larger goal and you don't think of the number in the bag you think of the the logo on the front of the shirt and I feel like for touchline is the same because it really helps everyone be motivated you want to make sure every that there's not someone that is taking advantage of someone else that everyone feels the same sort of commitment with a company and and i feel like we have been able to create this culture that everyone feels that the same way and and so that when we look for people that we hire yes resumes are very important and experience is very important but it's very it's almost more more important to me, like the work ethics and the culture, like the attitude.

42:06Because again, we are challengers. We're people that don't settle for the norm and you need everyone to have this need inside them to always like go for one more, like try to challenge everything, not settle for what's the norm and the standard. So that's something that for us, it's a must when we look for new team members. That dedication to go above and beyond. Yeah, the detail orientment, that craftsmanship in everything that you do. I was looking at other companies, even, for example, when they think of customer service and they externalize that. We don't. I was doing, last year, several weeks of customer service myself.

42:48Because, again, how you answer every customer, what they tell you, that's a source of knowledge. And we try to really look at, I always say, it takes a lifetime to build trust and one second to lose it. So every answer that we do in customer service needs to be the best in-class answer. Every time that we post something on social media, it needs to really meet the principles of the brand. So this approach has enabled us to really maintain this brand consistency and this perfectionism. I think you're right to focus on that. It's not something that everybody devotes that much time and energy to.

43:22One misconception of your business is that this took off only because of COVID. And to be clear, your company did enjoy success in those early days. I believe in 2020, Touchland blew up on TikTok and sold out the first week of the pandemic. At one point, it was reported you even had a wait list of nearly 35 ,000 people for the hand sanitizer. Is that correct? Around that number. Yeah, I don't know exactly the number, but yes. A lot of people. Yeah. But contrary to what some may think, much of your growth has actually come post-COVID, right? In the last couple of years specifically, which I think is so fascinating.

43:58Revenue has grown from$15.9 million in 2022 to over$100 million in 2024. Why do you think it's caught on so well despite the slowing market? Yeah, we definitely, there is this misconception of the brand. the brand again was having success in 2019 we suffered a supply chain challenge that left us without product for a full year during 2020 and then we relaunched the brand in a moment where the category was decreasing by six percent retailers were floated of hand sanitizer not selling but again we knew we were not selling just hand sanitizer so we were able to be given a tiny bin in those retailers we were told that's all you're going to get because hand sanitizer is not selling anymore and we knew just give us a chance to prove you that we're not just hand sanitizers so fast forward from that tiny bean in august 21 to today that we have 2 500 10 cuts between sephora and ulta it's been quite a journey and it's been one step by step proving with the metrics and the velocity that we were over performing the trends and so it's definitely been a journey of one step at a time and really we didn't go from zero to have all those end caps, we had one bean, two beans, three beans a hundred end caps and it's been growing to this point and I think part of the success has been product availability there's still a feeling that Toshland is scarce and hard to find even though we have grown tremendously and it's because again there's a lot of demand for the brand so So I feel that the awareness that we have seen growing has enabled us to be able to put more product in the market and really define how high is height, which, again, doesn't feel like we have gotten anywhere to understand what is that number.

45:53Those who don't know, though, with the supply chain issue you had during COVID, how did you actually manage to bounce back? Because I can imagine that was really brutal at the time. I think it's because of what I experienced with my family. And what I saw with my father, again, he had to restart from scratch. And I sort of did the same. And I feel like it's about kind of containing yourself, rebuilding yourself. And again, every good story always has a rock-bottom moment. And I feel like in our case, it was a pretty big rock-bottom moment. But we were fortunate enough, I think, not only to be given a second chance by consumers to come back and see this demand even bigger.

46:38But also from retailers like Ulta, they supported us, they gave us a second chance because we left those shelves empty for a long period of time. And so we're always thankful for partners that have been, because that's about the partnership, right? There's going to be good moments, hard moments. I believe in honesty and I believe in transparency and bringing them in and opening when you have a challenge so they are aware of what's going on. And so I feel for us, it was about what I had seen at home and really having to, unfortunately, had to go through a very similar situation. Yeah. And I think it's a good reminder, right, that at the end of the day, all these people behind businesses are just human beings.

47:21They're people too, right? Like during COVID, there were countless businesses that were stymied because of supply chain issues around the world. So, you know, you weren't alone in that boat. Yeah, definitely. Our partners were very understanding. And I feel like it's about, again, you have two choices. Either you quit or you stand up again. In our case, we stood up again and we were able to prove that this was much more than hand sanitizer. If it weren't for COVID, though, Andrea, do you think your business would have taken a different trajectory in the sense that obviously there's nothing that brings more awareness to sanitizing your hands than a global pandemic, right?

47:59That spread through touch. Was that kind of the moment that you saw, OK, this is going to go big or did that come after? I would say it was actually more the opposite. If anything, when COVID happened, it made it harder because, again, we were already having really good metrics and growth. And when the pandemic happened, actually a lot of people and the mentality was, oh, that's a that's a COVID thing. And for us to rebuild that communication, we did a very fun campaign to really tell people this is not about a pandemic. This is about like wellness and self-care. And so we did a campaign called Touch Like Inda before.

48:41It was like a very risky campaign, I would say, but we wanted to deliver a message that, again, And the brand has always been about finding the light on everyday moments. And so part of the things that I think through the pandemic we were deprived is just to be human, to hug, to party, to go out. So we did this campaign called Touch Like In The Before. And it really wanted to promote the message of just like hugging those human feelings that we have not been able to do for a, Those are the kind of things that we have always been as a Touchland, like communicating and empowering. Touchland has had some prominent collaborations with partners like Sanrio, the company behind Hello Kitty.

49:24I see this particular line had a 27 ,000 person wait list before selling out in a day. What made you think of that and how did it all come together? I think in the last five years we've had four collaborations. So very, very disciplined approach also to collapse. When we think of collapse, we always want to find, again, brands that really match our DNA, that match our principles and that share our opinion. So we've collaborated with Disney, with Smiley, with Blackpink, and lastly with Sanrio. And again, part of this is like, yes, it really matches all of our criteria of really bringing the light to everyday moments.

50:05Like we know Hello Kitty does. and the second element when we think of collaboration the side of does it really align with the brand is to what our community, does our community want it and when we released the collaboration we did a teaser where it's like hundreds of comments of people hello kitty, hello kitty so that's what I was saying about the social media listening I think it is so important to read the comments we always, always really review comments of who should we partner with, which essentially we launch, and all that. And so for us, when we released that, it was almost like, yeah, we listened to you.

50:43We've been screenshotting every comment that you guys did for the last years, and here it is. So that was when you were asking your customers who should be next, or was it just something that organically used? Generally, generally both. Like, we sometimes do post where we ask who should we call up next, but also, like, we receive a lot of comments on, like, everyday posts, yeah, of suggestions via email, via DMs. Yeah, people are invested. Yeah. You've also been very fortunate in that your product has become a beloved staple that's shouted out by celebrities online. A lot of brands have to fork out heavily for this kind of content, but you've talked about not spending a dollar on sponsored posts.

51:22Talk us through your approach on that. So one of the things that we wanted to maintain is authenticity for the brand. I feel like the way the world has approached today when I'm screening through social media and I see someone talking about a great product and how much I love it, hashtag advertising, you start wondering if there's like real love for the brand or if there's like, again, that financial boosting to really align with the brand. We've been approached by celebrities and so on that they wanted to receive the product, we send it, but it's up to them if they want to post. Like we don't want to, again, have to force anyone, And like pay anyone to post, like if someone really loves their product and goes on a stage in a concert and uses touchline, that's phenomenal.

52:09And that really shows that the love for the brand that goes again without any financial contribution that really boosts that sort of act. And so for us, it's been about maintaining authenticity on reviews because it really has allowed us to create this organic community that really loves the brand for what it is and the product for what it delivers. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller.

52:53Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero?

53:28This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Well, I want to get your thoughts really quick on competition. In an interview about two years ago, you mentioned that you were dealing with 2 ,000 patent infringements. I imagine there's even more by now. Is that something, Andrea, that you expected coming out of the gate? And how do you deal with the knockoffs? I think like that's part of being successful. And that's why we invested in design patents from the very beginning, because we knew that this was going to be, again, something that would happen with success. And it's part of the game. I feel like it happens to all of the best brands.

54:06And it's a process that you need to be extremely diligent about keeping it and enforcing it on a daily basis. And so we have a lot of programs of enforcement. We have a platform where we screen through all of these listings and enforce them automatically. So there's like an ongoing process. So this doesn't get out of your hands, but it is the unfortunate part of growing and being successful. Well, just to check, by the way, what are you most commonly seeing? Is it infringements on your design, your utility patents? Like what is it that you're specifically seeing? It's on the design of the bottle.

54:38I see. Yeah. Was there a concern, Andrea, that this would significantly take share from you guys at any point? because you come across pretty unflappable to me. But I got to imagine that that took a toll on you some days. I don't think that is the case. Like I feel like for like who wants to buy Touchland will buy Touchland and who buys a dupe, it's going to buy a dupe. Like I don't feel like we're losing market share if anything. I think it's even given us more awareness as a brand. So I think it's part of what it is. Again, like the only thing is that there are, this is like illegal behavior.

55:16And again, like that's why like if you don't have design patents, you have to deal with it. I think for brands that have design patents, again, it's that ongoing effort to make sure that you keep your rights on your patents. Because ultimately it also may create confusion. It may create confused customers. So you have to be able to, again, keep fighting this fight. Well, no entrepreneur goes through this journey without facing rejection at times. What were some of the hardest moments looking back on your journey? And how did you deal with setbacks? I mean, I think until very few years ago, I still like hands, like every time I was like hand sanitizer, like building the head.

55:56And it's been a lot of people just judging from the outside of like, it was not a sexy category. It was not understood. When we did fundraising, people did not even consider this could grow to the size that it's grown. So again, when you're doing something that has not been done before, you have to be able to understand that not everyone will understand it, and that doesn't mean that your idea is not good enough. Sometimes it means that you just have to prove them wrong, and I think for us we saw that there was the opportunity to really take this category to everyone's pocket and to really create excitement, as others did in other categories, we just had to prove it.

56:38And there's no better way to prove it than growth and metrics and so on to really show that there was really demand for something better. Yeah, and in some ways it fuels you, doesn't it? Yeah, it's kind of like... Just watch. Kind of, just watch. Yeah. Let's talk about Roadmap. It's been just weeks since you launched your latest products, the Body Mist and Hair Fragrances. How has that been going so far, and why did you pick this category? It's been an amazing moment for the brand because, again, we were a single SKU category for five years, six years now. And so for us, it was an important moment for the brand when we thought of the pipeline of innovation.

57:16We knew that we want to own the sensorial self-care essentials on the go. That's what we want to grow into. And we also did social media listening. A lot of people were asking for many years, you should do body mist, you should do fragrance. People saying that they were using Touchland already as a fragrance. So we were like, this has to be the second out of the five categories because it really connects the dots. It's the next extension. It's been the most requested category. It's on the go. No one has thought about fragrance concept on the go aside of the roll-ons, which are in glass. They are not very, like if you're clumsy, which I am, falls to the floor and it breaks.

57:54So really creating a concept of that compact fragrance on the go was something that we, through the Touchland lenses, wanted to reinvent, it's been mind-blowing. Like the shelves of Sephora and Ulta were empty. The metrics are doing phenomenally well. So, of course, we took that very seriously because, again, as I said, part of being very humble is that you don't think you're going to win everything, and that makes you always be ultra-cautious, ultra-competitive with yourself. And so when we did that, we put everything for this category launch. We did an amazing campaign. We did a new website.

58:29We did everything to make sure this category would be a success. I'm curious as well about your international plans. Now, obviously, we're both expats. You're from Europe. I come from East and Southeast Asia, where it's much more ingrained in our culture to constantly wash your hands when you come home, hand sanitize on every flight, COVID or not. How do you think about plans to push into those markets or back home to Europe or any other region outside of North America? Yeah, we've been focused on the U.S. for the last years. We recently launched in Canada in January this year. It's been a phenomenal success, like way more than any of us or them expected with Sephora Canada.

59:08And then we are going to be launching in a month in Sephora Middle East. And we're very excited about it. We're going to have like a window display on Dubai Mall of Sephora and Sephora Dubai Mall. So very excited about the first launch outside of North America. that it's very exciting. Dubai Mall that's quite an iconic property as well. Yes. Yeah I've heard that that's actually one of the world's best performing Sephora. Correct. So Middle East is the next big frontier. And Andrea what is the end game for you here? I know that you were saying that you feel like you've kind of just gotten started in some ways even though of course it's been a years-long journey.

59:46Is it owning your own physical stores one day? Is it becoming the next beauty and personal care unicorn? Is it to go public one day? Or, you know, if a large consumer goods company came to you tomorrow with a huge check to buy you out, you know, what would you say? We, I feel like we are so focused on the everyday and the journey that we, again, have not defined what that success is. I feel for us, we have the opportunity to build a legacy brand. And that's the ultimate goal. Like I would love Touchland to be a brand 20 years from now that has remained like the apples, the Nikes of the world. And again, that takes a lot of innovation, scale, and all that.

1:00:29So for us, that's the ultimate goal, to be able to build that legacy brand. And to do it with your husband, right? Correct. A lot of people, I think, don't know that you actually work with your husband, who is a co-founder. Correct. Wow, that's incredible. It's been an amazing journey, and I feel like being an entrepreneur is a very tough journey. and doing it with someone you trust, someone that balances you, someone that's going to call out what other people may not want to say, has been the best for me in my case because my father had to do that journey alone. Now, recently, my brother has started working with my father, and I can see that change of he has now someone that he can trust to, and I've been blessed enough to have a partner in crime through this journey that has been next to me.

1:01:16Do not tell me everything that I do good, but also watch out for this. Be careful here. And I feel like having that someone that you trust covering your back, and Mike is covering his back, it's been the best and the reason why we've been able to get it here because each one has its own skills and very different from each other. And I feel like that has helped us create the company that we've built. A true partnership in our sense. Correct. All right. This brings me to a segment we're calling What It Takes, where an audience member and fellow entrepreneur gets to ask for advice and hear more on what it takes to get where you are.

1:01:54So Alina from Dubai, who runs a cosmetics business, winning a beauty retail seems to be a matter of how much capital brands have access to. Was fundraising essential to your decision in entering major giants Sephora and Ulta? And can you share any real insights on how demanding it is to do well in retail? In our case, as I said, we've been able to do it with a very efficient and self-funded growth, which is very unique. And we've been able to go to large players like Ulta and Sephora, being mostly self-funded through the whole journey. What I think is very important to win is to do one step at a time.

1:02:37I feel for Touchland, we had patience. We had resilience. we were okay with one bin at the beginning then a second bin, then a third and then you can build up the business so you have the financial, your own financial support. Of course if there's a brand that launches 2 ,000 end caps without testing the brand, without, yes you run a lot of risk because if it doesn't sell most probably they're going to return to vendor and that is very risky so I always say to do one step at a time to start small and grow big because again Like when you start playing with those retailers, you have to make sure that there's demand.

1:03:15You have to make sure you're going to succeed because if it doesn't succeed, you only have one chance. You're not going to reenter again two years later to prove that you have velocity. So I would say in my own experience, we did it very conservatively, very cautiously, and we did it self-funded most of the journey. So I think in my case, I did not want to just take outside cash to fund a massive launch in those retailers. I wanted to do it also showing that the demand for the brand was there. So you don't feel like someone necessarily needs to always have that big VC or, you know, war chest to come to the table?

1:03:56Not in our case. In our case, we've done most of our growth self-funded. and, again, doing it one step at a time, very cautiously, one bin at a time, one new space at a time, so we could gain confidence that the velocity was there to keep investing in it. And what kind of metrics inform your decision on those things? When you say we waited until we're ready, we were patient about it, was it monitoring your sales data and seeing, okay, look, this is really taking off to the level that we think it's right now? Or what do you mean by that? Yeah, it's weekly velocities. I think all of the retailers give you the retail POS on a weekly basis, and it's about that growth.

1:04:33You don't need to do 1 to 1 ,000. You can go 100, 200, that sort of growth that enables you to prepare for it. Because, again, some of these can be very rocky, so it's better that you do it one step at a time, one space at a time, maybe a few stores at a time. Prove the numbers and then get more space and more space. Thank you, Andrea. Now we're going to do a quick rapid fire round to end off. Don't overthink it. Just say whatever comes to mind. Okay. Ready? How many hours of sleep do you get every night? Four to five. Stop it. How are you functioning? What's something you do to manage stress?

1:05:11I have a couple of dogs. So I love animals and that really distressed me. So I always bring my dog to the office and she gives me a lot of calm. I try to call my family when I need to de-stress. I love to watch Netflix. I'm someone that also needs my 30 minutes of Netflix a day to decompress. So I like to find those microjoys in the everyday because if not, I would go crazy. Yes. How do you prepare mentally before a big event? I tend to listen to music and try to not talk to anyone for 30 minutes before the event. If you could go back and give yourself advice in your 20s, what would you say? I would say to, again, to not, which I haven't done it, but even more, to not listen to anyone, to trust yourself, to dream big from the beginning.

1:06:00And because at the beginning, I felt like I had to prove a lot. And I wish I trusted myself earlier on to do certain things. Like, for example, moving to the US. Like, it took me quite some time to make that decision. Trust your gut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Andrea, thank you so much for being here for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us on Behind the Business. For more stories on business and leadership, follow our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.

1:06:35Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. Hi, this is Zoe Deutsch and Nick Robinson. Our brand new movie Voicemails for Isabel is all All about those little moments that feel like the universe is looking out. Feeling homesick, then your sister calls. Hearing that perfect song exactly when you need it. Please stay. Sometimes life rigs things in our favor, like learning about your new favorite rom-com voicemails for Isabel. Now playing only on Netflix. Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up.

1:07:16Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 45 % off custom window treatments during the 4th of July VIP access sale at blinds.com. From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help, and professional measure and install services. or DIY it with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 45 % off site-wide right now during the 4th of July VIP access sale at blinds.com.