'Proud of where I'm at': Jeremy Lin on life after the NBA, reinvention and redefining success

27:40And finally, I'm in a position. I've been an underdog my whole life. Nobody has ever cared about or expected anything of me. And then I signed with the Warriors. And now I have millions of fans. I can't let them down. And I was just like, I'm not built for it. And for me, it was like, I had a long-term goal of who I felt like I could be as a player. And for me to work through that and to realize I am built for that meant chopping that long-term goal down into 10 ,000 small goals. And I just started with the first goal or the first step in front of me. And I said, I played horrible tonight. I will be the first one in the gym tomorrow.

28:21And that's where I went back to my room. I apologized to my mom. and I just told myself, I will be the first one in the gym tomorrow and I will be working. And this is what I'm going to work on. I'm going to work on what I just did bad in this game. And I will be better at shooting tomorrow than I was today. And that was my first step. And as I got through that first step, I was able to then think about the second step or the next step. And as you do that, you build your confidence, you build your belief and you build your resilience. and it was that process that made me realize actually I am built for it because whether you are built for this moment or this stage is not in it's not based on where you start I think it's based on the steps that you take and if you're willing to go and get it and to continue to follow that process absolutely and you know I think that's such a relatable story for so many people in the sense that you know obviously people look at you and they're like oh like they just see the glory, right?

29:21Like they might see like all the all the amazing like highlight reel moments for like athletes like you. But like the fact that you're willing to go there and open up about, you know, these kinds of stories, again, that like mostly happen behind closed doors, I think is very powerful. If you're a founder like me, a lot of your mornings start the same way, gathering intel from all over before you make your first decision, checking analytics, digging through emails, pulling up spreadsheets, opening about 47 different tabs. That's what caught my eye about Perplexity Computer, the sponsor of today's episode.

29:52Instead of opening every dashboard yourself, Perplexity Computer connects to the tools you already use and builds a command center that gives you a complete picture of your business. You can have it pull together your revenue, ad spend, inventory, email performance, and more. Flag what's changed and even send you a daily report on Slack. But the best part is you can actually put it to work. So let's say you want to build an ad campaign or work through a CRM task, it can actually do that for you. It's a smart idea. Instead of being locked into one AI model, computer sends your project to the right one for the job.

30:25It essentially unifies all the different AI capabilities you'd normally use across those tasks into a single system. I just tell it what I need to get done and I let it do its thing. If you're interested, for a limited time only, our listeners can try Perplexity computer for free. Head to pplx.ai slash btb. That's pplx.ai slash btb to try computer today. Most AI tools are still answering questions while perplexity computer is completing full projects. Okay, here's something my younger self could have used, being more intentional about where I keep my money and how much I'm paying in fees. And right now I'm saving for my honeymoon, safari in Africa.

31:03So I've been thinking a lot more about this. That's why we're glad to have Chime sponsoring today's episode. Chime is changing the way people bank and they're not like traditional banks that gatekeep the best perks unless you have some massive balance. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees. And there are a bunch of other perks too. For starters, you can get 5 % cash back on your Chime card in a category of your choice, say gas or groceries. You can also build credit through everyday spending without a credit check.

31:37And if you're ever in a pinch, they've got this feature called Spot Me, which lets you overdraft up to$200 fee-free. For me, the best part is that you can grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com slash btb. That's chime.com slash btb. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details.

32:14Another thing that I know that you spoke about very candidly is feeling like, you know, the NBA at one point you felt like had given up on you after you got a knee injury, I believe, and how quickly perception can change in professional sports, right? going from one of being one of the most talked about, sought after players in the world to then struggling to find an opportunity. How did you then adjust your mindset and get through that experience? That was a very tough experience. I got an injury at a time when what was possible with that injury was kind of already written. And I do feel like I have rewritten what athletes could look like who have gone through a fully ruptured patellar tendon.

32:54But at that time, it was that. And I think sports science and rehab and all of that has evolved. And so I'm living proof that you can come back from that injury and still be basically the same player. But at that time, that wasn't the case. And for me, when you ask me, like, OK, now that I've retired after 15 years of professional basketball, what am I most proud of? It's actually not Linsanity. Like I think Linsanity almost came a little bit too fast or too easy. It came at the start of my or like midway through my second season. There was a rough rookie year, but I had one and a half years of struggle and I had this insane breakthrough.

33:37That's not the story for most people out there. The most the story for most people out there is you're grinding for years and you might not even get a breakthrough. And so for me, what I'm proud of is exactly that. I went through an injury. I was grinding, I was grinding, I was grinding. I was coming back trying to get better. And then I never was able to sign another contract. And I was able to go overseas and reinvent myself with this injury, become improved in many different ways and play some of my best basketball in a less prestigious league. but to me I know how much work that came with and that's why I'm so proud of it right and so even though on on the on the outside people kind of diminish what I've done overseas or like well you know it's overseas or that's in that league to me I'm actually very proud of it and that was or like my perspective is not based on what other people think of me and my comparison is not with other players because it's easy for me to get injured and then compare myself to other NBA players who have a roster spot.

34:42But my comparison was really with myself. Like, who am I? How am I progressing? Am I better today than I was yesterday? And I truly believe that by the end of my career, I was playing some of the best basketball I was able to play. I just didn't have the stage, right? Like I wasn't, I felt like even at the end of my career, like, could I have been a legit NBA player? I do. I went to the G League and went back to the G League and played great basketball and was still unable to get a contract, but that's okay. It's such a crazy journey. You were saying right before we started, how many teams it was in the end that you ultimately ended up playing with overall?

35:15I played for 16 teams in 15 seasons. A lot of change, a lot of, yeah, just a lot of change and a lot of transitioning. And did I see correctly that when you moved to New York initially for the Knicks, you first crashed on your teammate's couch in the beginning and didn't even ship your car over. Yeah, no, I was, I kind of, you get 30 days paid for in the hotel. And after the 30 days were up, I had another six weeks before the final cutoff date. Meaning if I make it past that date, then I will, then I'll be guaranteed for the rest of the season. Yeah. So I spent six weeks on my brother and sister-in-law's couch.

35:50It just so happened that when the night before the breakout game, they had friends over who were, who needed that couch. So I slept one night. I slept one night on my teammate's couch and that became the legendary story of Landry Fields couch. My sister wanted me to ask you whose couch is the comfiest? Oh definitely my brother. Landry's couch was so dang small. If I slept another night on there I would have had like body ache, neck ache, everything. My feet were literally like my feet were dangling off. Like imagine just like it's like that's how I went to sleep that night. Yeah, I think I saw a visual reconstruction in the documentary.

36:29It was hilarious. Yeah, yeah. No, it's not comfortable at all. I mean, I appreciated Landry that I wasn't sleeping outside or whatever, but that couch, he knows that couch was small. Yeah. Eventually, your next chapter came in Asia, including most recently in Taipei, where you played until last year. How has that experience changed the way that you think about your career and just your connection more broadly, obviously, with folks all over the world that have been watching? I'm very grateful for my time overseas. It allowed me to see the world more, allowed me to connect with my roots more and allow me to play in front of a different audience.

37:06then I was able to win two championships with my little brother. So those are core, core, core memories that I will take with me till my last day on this earth of winning two championships with my brother, with my parents, celebrating with my family there as well. You know, I'm very grateful for my time overseas. You know, another reason that Linsanity, I think, connected with so many folks is that it challenged perceptions of what an NBA player could look like, right? Which you've alluded to. You've spoken very openly about how coming up you felt like you had to play, you know, twice as hard just to overcome stereotypes of what a point guard should look like.

37:46Obviously now we have a few, you know, really big AAPI stars like Aileen Gu, Rui Hachimura, Shohei Otani, the list goes on. Do you think perceptions of Asian athletes have changed since your own breakthrough? I think it's heading in the right direction. um is it an even playing ground no it's not uh i think are it are scouts teams fans willing to accept elite asian athletes more quickly than when i was coming up probably by a little bit yeah i think so um but there still isn't the full respect that i think uh we deserve um but it's it's, you know, it's progress. It's a path. It's an evolution.

38:36And as long as we keep, it's not even about what we say. It's just who we are, what we embody and just continuing to bring excellence that will speak louder than words. But and the people that you have mentioned are absolutely doing that. Patricia, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Quite a lot to follow there after that. So much to get into. But first, I'd like to start with the disclaimer that in addition to the roles I just mentioned, you and Jeremy are also family. You're his sister-in-law. Yeah. When he was talking about the couch, we kind of had the front row seat to everything that happened during Linsanity.

39:14And that's sort of how it all happened. Was that your couch? It was our couch before I told him before he asked to come over that there was one night he couldn't stay over. And that was kind of the fateful insanity. Oh, that is hilarious. Other than that, it was our couch. Wow. Well, you know, it's so interesting because, you know, one reason I was saying to you, I'm glad we're chatting today, is that so often we only see the face of the brand, not the amount of work behind the scenes it takes to sustain that. You are someone that I imagine often has just too many tabs open, which I can definitely relate to.

39:45But, you know, Jeremy, you've used the word selfless when it comes to Patricia, which gives me the feeling you must feel pretty indebted to her. I feel very indebted to her. I'm just using today as an example of the team. It's like, Patricia's connecting and thinking through all these different things. Tiffany is helping with all these different things. And then I show up, I, you know, get a quick briefing, I share, and then it's my face all over, you know, and obviously this is a little different now that we've added Patricia, but I'm saying, typically, that is what an athlete looks like, an athlete's life looks like.

40:21So I walk away with all the face recognition, all the glory, all the he spoke so well and da, da, da, da. But who was the one really crafting and spending, you know, a month or two before that and figuring out the talking points and all of that is really a team. So I think Patricia's like fingerprints are all through this brand. And I actually consider I call her a co-founder and sometimes even tell him, like, sometimes I feel there's more your brand than is my brand. And that's how much I believe in who you are and what you have done for me and for our impact and for the world. OK, on a long day, after a long day, you have to watch this back and be like, this is what I do it for.

41:02And Patricia, for you, I understand this wasn't in your plan at all, right? Your background is so different. Biochemistry, is that right? And public health. What is the story here? How did you two end up working together? Yeah, I think having that front row seat to Linsanity. And honestly, my husband and I started dating when Jeremy was probably at Harvard. And so I kind of had seen this journey from afar. What I really had a lot of compassion for was this was just so overnight for not just for Jeremy, but for the entire family. I think a lot of people don't really know that what it's like to you see the excitement of Lynn Sanity, but what it's like to have like the family and the world completely turned upside down for the family.

41:46I think I just knew like in that moment that I wanted to contribute or help with that process in some way. And I didn't know if, you know, maybe I would come back to public health eventually or biochem or whatever. But in that moment, it was like, I think I can contribute. I think at that moment he didn't have a lot of people he necessarily could trust. My mother-in-law did a lot to help set him up to where he was. But I felt like I could work with the two of them and kind of help build that together. Yeah, absolutely. It almost sounds like there was like a protective instinct that kicked in because like people don't realize like maybe there was even like were you guys like even a bit scared and overwhelmed by everything?

42:23I think so. Yeah. I mean, I think there definitely I think there was a lot of fear in the beginning. Yeah, I think usually a career builds up in a more gradual fashion. But Linsanity really was like, yesterday you were having trouble getting into the arena. And today you're being asked on Letterman or SNL or all these things. And everyone is coming to help and every opportunity is at your doorstep. And so I think because it happened that drastically, we really there was like a protective instinct of like the world has changed, but our family has like the family and Jeremy is the same person. And then how do we still navigate this and keep all of that intact?

43:04And then just thinking through, you know, for those who don't know, what has it taken to build the Jalen orbit beyond basketball? You know, what was step one, for instance, because there's so many moving pieces. I think there's so many opportunities for an athlete now. I think step one at that time was how do you navigate all of that off the court stuff, but keep basketball the primary? There are so many things that an athlete has to do to stay at the top of their game. But then how do you determine like what is worth the time to do off the court and start to build that presence? And for Jeremy, a lot of it was a huge blessing that there was also incredible amounts of interest in Asia.

43:42And so really understanding like who our local partners are in Asia, like who can help guide us through it in a way so that we're not coming here with like an American lens and interacting with fans in a non-natural way. I think building all of those pieces were part of kind of the first steps. Yeah, absolutely. But it must have felt like a Herculean task to start with. Patricia, you've said that this firm, Jalen LLC, isn't about, you know, quote, growing a brand just to grow a brand. It's about building something mission driven. been, what does that actually look like in practice? You know, like when you're evaluating all the opportunities that come your way, whether it's sponsorships, shoe deals, new products, how do you decide which deals really align with your values?

44:22And does that often mean someone saying no to something very lucrative? I think it actually means saying no more than like that is probably what ends up defining what we do is that you know which ones if there is no reason behind it for us. And that can be a very broad thing. Like a shoe deal may not may look just business for other people. But for us, if we have a why behind why we do it, or a reason to connect with the fans or way we can do it, then that makes more sense. But it does mean saying no to a lot of things that I think people maybe would typically take or, you know, but for us, it's just examining each piece.

45:00And I think not just the philanthropy part, but even the business parts, like how can we do these things in or partner with people in a meaningful way so that it is something that is mission driven. Lately, I've been thinking a lot more about the future. I recently got married. And as we think about starting a family someday, some of those conversations that are like, okay, I should probably start thinking about this stuff, become a little more real. I'm a big believer in getting little things out of the way ahead of time, like packing my bag the night before a busy day. So I'm not scrambling in the morning.

45:30it's a small thing, but future me is always glad I did it. I think life insurance is one of those things. It's something you can take care of now that can give you and your family peace of mind with whatever comes next. That's where PolicyGenius, the sponsor of this episode, comes in. Life insurance can definitely feel complicated with different coverage amounts, prices, and terms to compare. PolicyGenius simplifies this as an online insurance marketplace that lets you compare free quotes from some of the top insurers side by side. With PolicyGenius, you can find 20 year life insurance policies starting at just$276 a year for$1 million in coverage.

46:05Head to policygenius.com slash BTB to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com slash BTB. So I'm going to be honest, now that I'm in my 30s, the desire to protect and take care of my skin is real. That's why I'm happy to have this episode sponsored by OneSkin. They're an anti-aging skincare brand that takes a different an approach, instead of just so many other brands reacting to lines and wrinkles after they show up, they're focused on how skin ages in the first place. One Skin was founded by four PhD longevity scientists who studied skin at the cellular level and found that visible skin aging can start much deeper.

46:45So they developed OS1, their proprietary peptide, to work with the biology of your skin. I personally have normal to dry skin and I've been using the OS1 moisturizer for a while now. I love how it brightens and just wakes up my whole face. So much so I've even gotten my husband onto it. This isn't just my experience. We take seriously who we vet as sponsors for the show. And OneSkin's results are backed by four peer-reviewed clinical studies and more than 10 ,000 five-star reviews. Born from over 10 years of longevity research, OneSkin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age.

47:19For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15 % off using code BTB at oneskin.co slash BTB. That's 15 % off with oneskin.co with code BTB. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. You can keep it general here, but what's something that you might have said no to, for instance, that might surprise folks? No need to name names, but just generally, is there something that comes to mind where it's like we just wouldn't touch that? I think there are certain industries that we stay away from. in general, especially when he was younger and it was like, OK, if you're talking to a youth facing audience, like, are there things that maybe they might think or things that are inauthentic, things that people might think like, oh, this will make contribute to me being a better athlete.

48:06But maybe for us, it didn't have anything to do with his story. And so staying away from things that are inauthentic, I think, was a big part of it. And Jeremy, have you guys ever disagreed about like which direction to take on some of those things? Or are you very aligned most of the time? I mean, I think we are values wise, we're aligned, but we're not always perfectly aligned. There are times when one of us feels like we should try it or, or, and the other one disagrees. But I will say, like, my general rule of thumb that I go by is to always defer, not because I'm naturally deferential. I don't think that's true.

48:42It's just because I think there's so much trust and relational equity. and uh i just really actually trust her pulse more than i trust mine on a lot of these things and that's through process right like that's not i didn't show up always just like yeah here's the keys do whatever you want it was more just like something that was very earned i think that's true and there's been times when even things that we believed in she would always like check constantly check like is this still something you believe in are you still living that out is that still authentic to you? And so there's been times where it's like, hey, you should re-evaluate how you are living or how you view this or how you're spending your time because working on this may no longer be authentic if you are, you know, moving in this direction.

49:32And so these are tough conversations, but always really helpful, always shedding light. And one of the biggest things that we hear about is, you know, it's like the brand is so authentic. It's, it's not just because I'm authentic. It's because, you know, the right hand woman and the people around me keep me also authentic. And if we're not going to be authentic, then we won't talk about it and we won't go do those things. Right. She's a gut check, essentially. You know, it's funny because one word that like kind of came to mind when I was learning all about your story is intentional, you know, and I say that with like no amount of smoke blown, like genuinely just intentional because it feels like every single thing kind of speaks to each other.

50:12Let's turn to investing, which is one of the big pillars. You know, one thing we like to explore in the show is where people see the next big thing. An increasing focus for you both has been backing startups. Jeremy, I'm sure you get pitched all the time. As an investor, what do you look for in a founder or a business that makes you really want to back someone? Well, I can't take the credit and I'm not in these pitch meetings. It's really more around Patricia, as well as Patricia works closely with Robert Kim, who runs our impact investing fund. I don't know if you want to add more about the process.

50:44So Robert runs our Asia Companion Fund, which is our main investment fund right now. And that, I think, has been mostly focused on Southeast Asia and Korea. And really what he's been looking for has really been more around the culture of companies, as well as the founders and their willingness to listen, their willingness to work together, to form community. I think what we've seen is that there are a lot of great companies with a lot of potential to growth, but what will really take a company from something that is, you know, like to something that's really successful, a lot of times has to do with what the founder, how the founder is wired, how the founder thinks about their employees, how the founder thinks about their product and how it impacts society.

51:27And so for us, the intentional piece of investing was how do we find people that we can help impact in that way. And a lot of that has also been sharing some of Jeremy's stories and life lessons along the way as well. Yeah. You know, as a Malaysian, by the way, it was refreshing to see Southeast Asia as an area of focus because it's often, I would argue, a region that doesn't get enough attention. I was curious if there's like any specific kind of trends or opportunities that made you want to zero in on, you know, Southeast Asia particularly. Yeah. I mean, we're still really early on in like getting to know Southeast Asia better ourselves.

51:59But it has been extremely fascinating in terms of like the amount of young people in the workforce in some of these countries and what they are, the potential that is there and kind of the hunger to kind of do this work. And also in the investor community. I think that's been really, we've met a lot of really intentional investors that are willing to pour into these founders. And I think that's been amazing to see. Yeah. And your investment span, both the U.S. and Asia, you know, as someone who's covered business and tech out of APAC before. I'm always on my soapbox about how so much innovation is overlooked or exists outside of Silicon Valley, right?

52:36You guys know both places very well. Are there any trends or ideas you're particularly excited about right now? You know, whether it's in the consumer space, like just anecdotally, like whether it's drone deliveries, mobile payments, super apps, like, I don't know. Is there anything that like you guys have just seen anecdotally that you're excited? I mean, I can, like, I love one of the companies we're invested in is in Dallas. And basically they're bringing financial literacy and financial investment to a whole class of people that isn't high class or highest class. And so just helping, you know, normally when you're making investments, you're, you have to submit X amount of capital or be in some type of tax bracket to be able to even be in these conversations, but they're kind of bringing that to, you know, just to the masses.

53:26And that's really cool to see that they're educating these people and helping them grow their money and to help them prepare for their future, for retirement, for their children. You know, these are the types of companies and the founders that really excite us as well, because it's not just that there's a lot of potential. There's some level of industry disruption going on as well, where the norm is this way. We feel like to humanize and dignify people, maybe there can be shifts in other directions. And that is going to be a big theme in a lot of the work that we do is how do we redefine certain things and to bring a little bit more of Jesus's love into that space.

54:08So investment is one of the pillars that we do, but there's also like brand building and endorsements as well as storytelling and basketball training. I think seeing, getting the opportunity to see how brands work in Asia and how fans interact with and how the entertainment stories that are coming out of Asia, I think has been like a really, really fun piece of what we do. And I think you're right. There's so much to learn from Asia and the business that is going on in Asia right now, as much as there is the other way around. Yeah, absolutely. I remember back in the day, we covered how K-dramas and like Indian matchmaking series were like really taking off on Netflix.

54:42And they were so excited because they were like, it's actually our fastest growing region right now. And we are taking cues from Asian audiences and applying it globally. So it's really interesting. I'm sure you guys like talk about stuff like that all the time. Patricia, looking ahead, what's next on the company roadmap? Any upcoming announcements you can tease or Jeremy, if you want to speak to anything? I mean, we've been really digging into this broadcasting space for Jeremy. So I think one of the things that I felt really passionate about after he finished his career was to get him back into the NBA basketball space in those conversations.

55:14I feel like he has so much to contribute in terms of his story and the perspective. And even just seeing an Asian American, I think, in these sports commentating spaces, I think has been really impactful. And so starting with that and then continuing to build on like how can the lessons that he's learned affect many different target audiences, whether it's up-and-coming athletes, whether it's how we train athletes in Asia, whether it's the founders that we're working with with Asia Companion Fund. I think there's a lot of this like storytelling and passing on phase that we're kind of entering into now.

55:45Oh, interesting. Broadcasting and storytelling. Anything more specific you can give us a hint to? Within the broadcasting and storytelling? Yeah, or I guess if any other announcements, you want to make some news here? No, I mean, I think the biggest thing is we don't know. like we're looking like the broadcasting space is they're not making their final decisions now they don't finalize their rosters but we are I mean the big the only thing I could say and it's not like there's any other news beyond that is that we're actively looking for broadcasting opportunity for the upcoming NBA season um and so our agency is working on that and um that's something that we are really trying to lean into so that you know if there's some you know if I am able to land a gig and have an announcement, we'll definitely make that.

56:27But we're just timeline wise, we're not there yet. Jeremy, zooming out, you know, what is your end game here? If we were to sit back down, let's say 15, 20 years from now, I'm picking a long time horizon here. Where would you really want to be? You know, it's great because five, six years ago, that question was asked by Patricia to me and she but she said 30, 40 years. She said in 30 to 40 years, what will you want Jalen LLC to be known for. And this process took somewhere between 12 to 18 months. I don't remember exactly, but it was painful. It was super annoying. I was getting annoyed of talking to her about it.

57:04I was annoyed with her questions because everything I had come up with wasn't good enough. It was either too broad or too vague. And finally, after 12 to 18 months, I'm so glad that she forced me to do it because it has built the vision for this company. To answer your question, we want to redefine love for the next generation. That sounds very simple. It took a lot to get there. We had to filter through, you know, for every one vision that statement that you have, you have to say no to 99 others. And why are you saying that? But for us, it really is redefining love for the next generation. True love is very sacrificial.

57:40It's costly. It's in-depth. It is not as cheap as maybe we throw the word love around in society. And so whether that is how we invest our money, whether that is how we storytell or how I present on as a commentator or how we try to dignify and build up these upcoming athletes, everything that we do is with this concept of redefining love in a sense of, you know, it comes from our faith as well. Jesus is love, perfect love. We are not perfect, but we're trying our best to bring that to all the different spaces and industries that we touch. And when you say redefine love, you know, obviously, I know you've said before as well, I know this sounds like fluff and like a lot of hot air.

58:26Like, what does that actually mean? Like in practice, like just one example of like something that like guides you when you're making a specific decision. For example, recently we launched a hydration drink. I had zero passion to do drinks. I don't want to do drinks, but we did it because we felt like that's what was needed. And, you know, we started in Taiwan and we're hoping to bring that abroad. But in Asia, a lot of the, you know, the flavor, the flavor profile and what the consumers like are sweet. But what are the types of ingredients that are being added into it? Are they actually really good for you?

59:03Are they helpful for your body, for your performance? So how can we bring really high quality ingredients to Asia, but at an affordable cost? So I could bring high quality ingredients there and then put it at a premium and really only serve a very select people. But it was a lot of work and gut check and process to be able to work in finding the right partners. But that's a space that we feel like there's a hole there. There's something missing. and what people are putting into their bodies may not be as healthy for them as they think. So can we help redefine love or bring love into a drink industry?

59:43Right. That extra thought behind it that like maybe others wouldn't have taken the step. Yeah. And the decision making, the motivation and the decision making around like, you know, there are certain bottom lines that we're not willing to concede. And why are we, you know, why are we, you know, doing that? Right. It's still a business, right? Right. But then you want to go about in a very sincere way. Right. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. All right. This brings me to a segment we're calling What It Takes, where an audience member gets to ask for advice or hear more on what it takes to get where you are.

1:00:11So today, Cliff, a Canadian working on tech in San Francisco, who wants us to also shout out the 2019 Raptors, asks, You are, Jeremy, one of the only people who's played at the highest level of the NBA and then the CBA, Chinese Basketball Association. Were there any culture shocks when you moved and any differences in play you had to get used to as someone who's now seen both systems up close? There's definitely a lot of differences. You know, the international overseas basketball is a more compact version of basketball. It's harder to score, essentially. There's more physicality. It's harder to score.

1:00:45The NBA is more space and it's very talented players, but it's more space and it's more entertaining if you like higher scoring games. And that is the nature of NBA games. They are significantly more higher scoring than what you'll see in FIBA or overseas. So just adjusting to the strategies, you'll see more zone. You'll see more defense compact. You'll see more help defense. You get away with more hand checks, things like that. that's a huge difference between the CBA and the NBA. And then there's tons of cultural differences. I could go on and on, but... Go ahead. No, no, no. I mean, I think the biggest thing about it is just that I had learned was when I was in the US, I was never seen as an American basketball player.

1:01:33I was always the Asian basketball player. And when I went back to Asia, I was never seen as an Asian basketball player. I was seen as maybe the Asian skin basketball player from America. So I was still seen as the guy from America. So it didn't really matter where I was. I was always seen as not from there or not belonging to there. And that gave me an opportunity to bridge. So I've been able to be a part of both cultures. I really appreciate West and East and I'm able to bridge people. So my local teammates, when I was in Asia, I was able to share different ideologies and different things around Western, you know, whether it's sports science or leadership or communication and vice versa.

1:02:14I was able to bring a lot of my Asian roots to my Western teammates, even in the NBA, bringing them on my Asia trips and letting them experience the fandom in Asia. That is so fun. Was there like one funny moment, let's say, in the CBA that you were just like, oh, man, like I'm not in New York anymore. Yeah, I mean, for sure. I'm sure there are many. There are many. What are the ones that are safe for work? the safe for work ones uh we were on you know getting ready for an away game and um and then uh you know we sit down and we're getting ready to eat and we were in san shi and they bring out an entire roasted lamb like just popped out of nowhere and there's like a whole lamb like plopped down on this massive table and i was like oh i am not in new york right now Oh, it was delicious.

1:03:05But that is like a kind of a specialty dish. And it took like multiple people to bring in and it was delicious. Wow. Yeah, quite a moment. Thank you, Jeremy. Now we're going to end with a quick rapid fire round with both of you. Don't overthink it. Just say whatever comes to mind. Ready? Patricia, one word to describe working with family. Ooh, challenging. Jeremy, one word to describe working with family. Rewarding. Aw. they're both you see how nice he is too we complimented patricia what would be your dream collab um i have always thought jeremy and steph curry have a lot of mission in common and so i and i really respect what stephanie should have built so very cool i love that jeremy favorite food that reminds you of home my mom's shia koh huang it's a it's a little pastry patricia go to boba order oh i am an almond jelly person um lately it's been guava guava tea nice jeremy favorite karaoke song i want it that way i thought you're gonna do jay chow okay his songs are too hard he talks too fast patricia who's more likely to push for the bigger riskier idea jeremy yeah yeah jeremy one piece of advice you come back to often.

1:04:30Keep the main thing the main thing. Guys, thank you so much. I've enjoyed this. I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us on Behind the Business. For more stories on business and leadership, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.

1:04:52Have you heard that McDonald's spicy chicken McNuggets made with spicy tempura and a blend of aged cayenne are back. Remember to grab a few extra napkins for a limited time at participating McDonald's. We just moved into our new house and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about Blinds.com. Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Customers who shop at Blinds.com experience excellent customer service from consultation to installation. Side effects include increased privacy and better sleep. Talk to your partner today and see if Blinds.com is right for you.

1:05:33Visit Blinds.com to order your free samples.