I Don’t Have a Drinking Problem, I Had a Thinking Problem

0:00Welcome to Behind the Title, where leaders show up differently. Today I'm joined by Michael Smith. Michael and I bonded a couple of years ago when I shared my candid and honest story around addiction and alcoholism. Michael's also experienced similar struggles and today joins to tell us about how he's overcome those and what methods and steps that he's taken in order to become a better person and be more supportive of those that are struggling with addiction and mental health.

0:24Michael Smith: When you brought this up and asked me to be, if I would look, you know, that you're doing this and say if something I'd be interested in doing, I jumped at the chance. Absolutely. I'll bite your arm off for this because, you know, it's an opportunity to basically share my experiences with other people. Kind of help one person, hopefully, to make sure that, you know, to let them know that they're not alone. you know when I was deep in alcoholism addiction whatever you want to call it you know I I felt so alone I felt so isolated I felt like literally nothing no one could help me and it was never going to get better um and talking about that and being able to share those kind of places because there are people today in exactly that space and I want to know I want and make people aware that they they're not alone there is support there is help you know it's it's three words i need help that's that's it michael welcome it's great to have you here uh or bicycle bichel bichel bichel smith everyone uh go check him out so great to have you here thank you for coming on we've obviously known each other for a couple of years and actually slightly by chance I shared my story about overcoming some challenges with mental health and addiction and alcoholism and we connected post that.

2:04So it's great to have you here. I guess for the people that have not met you before maybe just give a bit of an intro to yourself and why it was important to come and share your story on here.

2:15Michael Smith: Yeah well thank you Danny. Yeah it's good to be here. So yeah michael smith i am we talk about companies i'm a company currently called camp house um but yeah we did meet by chance uh a few a few years ago your your story came up in linkedin came up on my linkedin feed and soon it resonated you know we've got to do we have very very similar kind of paths we've taken and then like i i think we we messaged each other once or twice on on linkedin and that was kind of it really because it's life busy and everything else and then i think fast forward about a year i i went i went to a meeting and i'm sitting there this guy is sitting in the meeting i recognize him and it was it was you you know it was weird that we connected on linkedin but we actually live in a in a very similar area we go we our paths should have crossed and they did yeah um and i think from then we became we became friends yeah you know you know we meet up we talk and you've been a great person for me to talk to and ask advice from likewise in the past and and i'm sure for and the future forevermore you know when i when i was well i i suffer and still suffer but i mean recovery from addiction from both drugs and alcohol and when i was in the basically my darkest areas my darkest places i felt so isolated felt so alone and I thought it was only me that felt like that you know it was only me if you were like me you would drink like me if you had my life you would take drugs like me and what I found out very very quickly is I'm not that unique you know I'm not that different to other people I'd go to meetings and I'd hear other people who'd walked exactly the same path like reading your LinkedIn profile um so for me why i wanted to be here is to kind of share my story to kind of make people aware that they're they're not alone they're not on their own and there is a a better a better way and you know if what was given to me it was given to me freely uh for me to come and sit here with you uh to to give away what was given to me is is me repaying what was given to me really i found this process really cathartic um you know just helping you know other people i guess share their stories and we had someone on the other day um who uh i won't i won't reveal too much about their story but they were they were in remission you know for for cancer and and they said something just incredibly heartwarming which you know full transparency it made me you know well up which was they'd never got to ring the bell for cancer because they're still kind of you know going through treatment and they said that being on this podcast felt like them ringing the cancer bell and I was just I was touched by that that comment just because I didn't realize the effect someone just sharing you know a stranger someone just sharing what's going on for them but yet weirdly so close to home when I share with another stranger like we have yeah it's so powerful um you know to me this is not a recording a podcast this is two two powers having a chat about uh about life so it's um it's great to have you on here and I think there's not enough people that talk about this and that's what behind the title is all about is leaders showing up differently and I I am and I think others will be eternally grateful for people like you coming on to talk about this stuff.

6:02So again, thank you. Um, if, if, if you cast your mind back to when you were perhaps in madness and, and then, you know, uh, the, the moment that changed for you, we, we talk about the backstage pass, you know, was there a a specific time or occasion um in which um you looked fine on the outside externally everyone was you know uh complimentary and things were things were good but on the inside you were crumbling you know things were just falling apart bit by bit or i think i think quite

6:43Michael Smith: For the last three years of my alcoholism and my drug taking, that was daily life for me. You know, I put this facade up that everything was great, everything was good, I was amazing, but inside I was completely broken. I was a functioning alcoholic was the word that we used, but the only thing I could function, The way I kind of measured that success of being a success, a function alcoholic, was that I got to work at 9 o 'clock. My bum was on the desk at 9 a.m. That was a win, irrespective of what time I'd gone to bed or whatever. That was kind of a complete win to me. I was fortunate in the roles that I'd taken and the job that I did that I was okay at selling.

7:43Michael Smith: I was okay at getting deals in. And I'd get, over my past, I've got a few big deals in. And trust me, I'd lift off of those deals for a lot longer than I probably should have. You know, I'd always kind of reminisce about that deal or this deal or being the first or whatever. But that carried me through. So people thought I was great. still what I thought people thought I was great a lot fast forward into recovery and what I thought people thought of me was completely different to what people thought of me but we'll get into that probably later um but yeah that was there was there's no one single moment where things were going great but like as soon as I go through the doors of a home you know I'd be it'd be different to how I was.

8:34Michael Smith: I was two different people. You know, at work, verado, facade, at home, apologetic. I'm never going to do it again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, so it's a weird one. You know, I think there's the realisation that I couldn't do it anymore was probably, well, not probably, was in a hotel room in Munich at Oktoberfest. I've just done De Mexico. It was a year of a number of events. My 40th birthday, De Mexico. I think I went to Taipei that year and Festival of Media, the Barcelona Mobile World Congress, CX. Wow. You know, I had a good. That's an itinerary. Yeah, and I had family holidays in between that as well.

9:36Michael Smith: I had a good year, busy year. I spent 28 weeks of that year out of the country. And every single one of those events, I actually pulled a sickie. everything Vegas Rome whatever because I'd done everything to excess and I was supposed to show up for work and I showed up for me um but look fast forward to the end of September to mid September September 17th 18th woke up in a hotel room in Munich and I woke up still dressed in full lederhosen um laugh about these things now you can literally it was just well it was uh i thought i'd like i was blind in one eye because i'd fallen asleep on a calzone pizza and the cheese had stuck my eye together so i actually thought i'd lost the sight in one eye for a second i kind of prized the melted cheese dried off my face already i'm painting a really pretty Of all the sound bites that we're going to get of this series, that just made me laugh.

10:50Michael Smith: And I looked at the person that was staring at me in the mirror

10:59Michael Smith: and I hated, I'm going to use that, I hated what was looking back at me. You know, I despised myself, hated myself. and weirdly something broke. I broke, you know, and it was a case of I couldn't do it anymore. I knew it had stopped being fun two years ago at least, two years before that at least.

11:32Michael Smith: But the power of choice was taken away from me way before then.

11:39Michael Smith: and I don't know if I've actually answered your question but that's kind of the realisation when I knew that shit weren't well, that things wasn't going well and no matter how much bravado facade that I put up, I couldn't hide how I was feeling, how broken I felt, how isolated I felt, how alone I felt anymore. you've more than answered you've actually answered the second question i had um so it was a it was a physical moment standing in front of the mirror just realizing this isn't this can't continue it it it can't and won't continue there was a there was a finality now how where that was taken i didn't know where the roads were left to then and and and was this something within the family life or in the work life that you were exhibiting i.e did you ever get called out within the workplace for excess or was were people from your family saying michael's enough now yeah time to time to calm down um so so what did it get called out of work every single company that i worked for for the previous five or six years.

13:02Michael Smith: I was probably going to be asked to leave. You know, I was put on a pip with a company, not because of my performance, because literally, if it was down to numbers on a bit of paper, in some places, they would keep you on. This place, which wasn't, didn't accept that, no matter what numbers I was doing, I wasn't being socially acceptable. you know I was I was being maybe inappropriate in things I would say or some of the behaviors I would have being too laddish or whatever um but yeah that was that was them but with home it'd been a constant you know it'd been like literally having my sister-in-law phone me to tell me because my wife was at her you know at her how it's end about it all my mum phoned me my mother-in-law phoned me my then that my dad obviously since the past but would phone me you know literally my wife and let's be clear let's be honest I had when I was deep in addiction I had a four-year-old and a six-year-old at that age and that's when I was you know they were an inconvenience you know my wife was at home my amazing wife by the way she was at home looking after these two kids and i thought it was my god-given right to just basically spend every penny we had and money we didn't have borrow you know and with no fault or whatever into what for them no thought of them they were it was i worked i was the breadwinner and uh that was kind of that was what you know I thought it was right.

14:49Michael Smith: Am I right? It's interesting because obviously we have learned stuff about ourselves and we've learned fundamentally that, you know, we have an illness. Yeah. That is very hard to treat through, I guess, the medicinal variety, right? It requires something deep-rooted, you know, spiritual, fundamental behavior change and so when you talk about that stuff there I can't envisage it because what I see in front of me and when we speak is someone that deeply cares for other people now supports others you know through their challenges and look you know here today bearing you know bearing all of which you know is a is a massive you know a massive testament to you wanting to give away, as you say, what was freely given to you.

15:47Are there certain, and it might still come up now, are there certain triggers in your life, be that personal or professional, that push you to act or behave either past tense in a certain way or present tense? And that could be in the workplace or it could be at home. Are there certain triggers, whether it's, you know, behavioral or uh seasonal or you know you know what what makes michael behave or what made michael

16:19Michael Smith: behave that way triggers i had before were simple if the day ended in a y that was a good idea you know that was for me it was every day was a good day if it was a bad day i'd drink if it was a good day i would drink if it was whatever day i would drink if it ended in a y basically i'd drink or take drugs so that i didn't really have triggers per se in that respect um i do see when i need to work on myself today through certain things that happen if and a good example is if i've got a lot going on i i can quickly kind of I displayed it earlier on before we actually started talking you know I'm working on this I'm doing this I'm doing this I'm working on this I'm doing I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm well actually I'm a part of each one of those processes but I quickly someone told me this in a cafe a couple of weeks I don't know who that was I'm quick to realize that it's not just me it's not just I am and actually and that that when I talk about those triggers that makes me going in myself and i think i can't think of the other parts of it um and you know so for me those kind of triggers help me i have to take a step back have a little think about what i'm how i'm you know it's i can do everything that is in front of me might not necessarily do it in the time span that I want to do it in i.e yesterday but that's okay as long as I communicate and talk and you know don't over promise I can get all of these things done yeah there's a there's a theme with a lot of the guests that we've had high performers leaders all overachievers completely at one stage in their life yeah maybe obsessed you know with achieving that success and it's resulted in you know bad behaviors and triggering them to do certain things or there are certain triggers that lead them to certain behaviors so i think that what we want to be able to do with behind the title is demonstrate to people that leaders struggle as well it's not you know uh it's not a bed of roses um that's not suggesting that you need it to get like that i think that's the key point is that i wouldn't even necessarily say that i'm a role model um i'm sure that you probably wouldn't say about yourself as well certainly not my behaviors because i don't think that's needed i think everyone needs to chart their own path was there a time then you know and it might have been about it might have been in relation to your behavior yeah um but it could have been in the workplace of other people was there a time when you wish you'd said something to someone or you know was there a uh a moment where you wish you said to yourself enough is enough you know were there were there warning signs before you got to that mirror moment uh yeah uh there was there was there was god yeah there were there were there was a number of a number of moments um both personal and in work you know personal you know if you want to call it rock bottoms you know 10 years before that mirror moment which quite like they call it the mirror moment now um uh there wasn't there was there was something at home where literally i had in one arm my son who was six months old, eight months old, whatever, and the other hand, drugs.

20:12Michael Smith: Drugs, I said it really quickly. And I chose them over him. That should have been a really telling moment for me. It slowed me down for 18 months, but after that, I was back up to pace. Work-wise, every single moment that I've told you about with regards to HR or whatever, you know, they were all really stand out, probably gross misconduct, fireball. Times I could have been let go. One of those was a possible learning opportunity or a time for change. But, you know, I'll be different next time. I'll be good. It won't happen again, which often it did and did. So, yeah, I could literally pinpoint six to eight different times in my working life when I could have said, you know, I'm broken.

21:14Michael Smith: I'm not happy. You know, I need help. I need help. But instead, I blamed everybody else. You know, it's your fault. or if you would have done this or I'm blaming it on whatever. You know, I'd never looked at myself. But ultimately, that's those three words, I need help. I never, you know, I saw counselling, me and my wife saw marriage counselling at that time, probably about 12, 13 years ago. and nothing to do with, I did completely ignore the drink and drugs. It was just we wasn't getting on. But if I actually look at why I wasn't getting on, it's because I wasn't coming home. You know, I tell her I'll be leaving at 5 o 'clock or 5.30.

22:125.31, my phone would ring and I'd nubed her

22:16Michael Smith: and then she'd probably have 50 to 80 missed calls that night because I said I was going home. and uh i was just broken that power of choice had been taken um but yeah you know going back full circle though the realization is when i broke you know what i didn't realize and i'm super thankful today is that my wife who is and i've said already amazing she's an absolute rock star um was literally two weeks away from throwing a towel in on us you know um didn't know that at the time so i don't know why i broke at the one at the time i broke but it was the it was the best time to break i preferred it probably 10 years sooner but i can't unring that bell um but yeah it's uh yeah it's all life i i i'm i'm fascinated with this this space in the workplace today because i think we're in a very different era to where we were 10 15 20 years ago and actually uh generations you know or different generations are now making conscious choices to not overindulge in substances be that alcohol or other mind-altern chemicals

23:51how how easy is it do you think to to live life today as a younger person in the world of media communications advertising and not feel the need to have a drink i think

24:09Michael Smith: generationally it's changed with regards to what was deemed acceptable when I was kicking around at 18 I don't even want to think how many years ago it was now but quite a few to what it is today and I look at that as I look at my son for that as that kind of benchmark so you know he he drinks maybe three or four times a year you know he looks after himself he's um So it's very different in that respect. But I think there's more, especially with social media, there's more outlets for advocacy, for positive, for healthy lives and things like that. Part of talking about giving away freely and stuff like that is I'm super happy and open to talk about what I've done, where I've been, where I'm here today.

25:01Michael Smith: And I found talking openly about it, talking about there is a solution for one of them there is help there is support um you know i can i can tell you that people because i've been super open about how i am my relationship with alcohol how it was what it is today um now today don't drink today i've chosen not to drink and they've asked me questions like how what did i do and i've taken some people to their first meetings and things like that which is awesome but off the back of that i also um we also set up another little group i'm sorry i'm going to give it a little bit of a plug no please do so um me and an amazing woman called julia smith she's not julia smith anymore i apologize uh julia um we set up spill which is sober people industry lads and ladies so we're a whatsapp ad tech group of people who don't can't or won't drink and we just kind of offer each other support as a support network across ad tech so in can we had spill in can uh mad fest we started off it actually started off at mad fest that's why mad fest have a incredible a dry bar at mad fest now because of not mine i'm not gonna take any credit for this julia was like look we're adults why can't we have adult drinks as well just with not without alcohol um so yeah there's a lot more talk around there's a lot more it's a lot more accepting to like not drink beforehand it was you're either driving or you're pregnant they're the only two reasons you could use why you wasn't drinking you know and one was male but technically you're driving if you're a man and you're pregnant if you're a woman It was just, but today it's super, it's a lot more accepting.

26:53Michael Smith: Personally, I'm very basic. I like Diet Coke and sparkling water, but other people like the alcohol. Do you think we're missing something in the workplace? Because I think, you know, the subject of alcoholism and addiction is still quite prevalent. You know, we see it, you know, day in, day out. um i'm a firm believer that if you can help educate people when they're younger yeah then you've got a better chance but the education that i got in school was i think one the wrong timing but also i'm not sure that it it was by an educator yeah we're talking about you know what to watch out for and things to look at as opposed to someone coming and sharing a lived experience Do you think there's something in the workplace that we could or should be doing to encourage better education and that there's support there if you need it?

27:51Michael Smith: Yeah, I think there is definitely need for it. I think that it's a fine line between like how it says how it's delivered. Because I think if you, you know, when taking back to someone telling me like, don't drink, you can't drink, I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm going to prove different. You know, I think there's a way of delivering it. I think what the answer is, I don't know. But it just needs to be more open, like with everything that's spoken about and support. It's like when you join a new company, let's just say onboarding. Let's go through what's a part of the onboarding process. What resources are available to you as an employee as that?

28:37Michael Smith: Now, you'll get the, you know, here is the intranet site, which I've probably not even called that anymore. It's showing my age. But, you know, here is your onboarding documentation. Here is the support. Here is your benefits. Here is whatever. You know, I think there's a good space for kind of like here's your gym membership opportunity. Here's your cycle to work schema. Here is your support advice kind of options. You know, something there I think is great. But equally, I was talking to a woman who works at another advertising agency. And again, we were sitting down after a meeting, having a debrief about a client.

29:20Michael Smith: And because I am super open about how I talk about, she's like, will you come to my agency and talk about what you've just talked to me about? That needs to happen more. I think you know having those kind of lunch and learns but not just having a vendor coming in and talking about that and like the wellness kind of side of things not just having you know that's yeah I just think it just needs to be part of the society normalized yeah exactly yeah that's the better word for it it just needs to be normalized yeah I think um you're right I mean a lot of those a lot of those uh those areas are covered off in inductions um an experience that I had maybe four or five years ago i actually um through our well-being team yeah tried to create a space um that was not dissimilar to the spaces that we go outside you know uh of an evening or a weekend or a morning to yeah we had a room that was uh uh like uh i didn't call it like masked it was like the had like you couldn't see who who or what was in there yeah and we sat in there for four weeks for an hour each time and no one turned up and what i learned from that exercise was people are uncomfortable with sharing what's going on with them in the workplace also maybe wasn't the right environment but that's what you know uh behind the title is all about yeah i think it's giving a platform and a forum to stories like yours to show people that you don't need to suffer in silence you don't need to get to that stage in fact there are many people that you'll either work with um i mean or not you know to case in point here you know we met yeah just by you seeing something online and you know we we have a a great friendship now and um and i think that's what for me it's all about is i need i want to see more people come and share their story yeah because the minute that people see it normalized to know that everyone struggles you you can't and shouldn't be uh held back or penalized in the workplace because of that yeah there is a reality the corporate world is the corporate world right and if you're in a role and perhaps you're distant for a little while because you're dealing with personal challenges then you know the world moves on doesn't just stop yeah but i think the encouragement of people like you coming on today I think is is so important um do you think there's um and we we talk about it quite a lot we talk about the permission slip yeah um and uh we briefly uh exchanged on this you know if you could if you could give um permission to others to uh feel say feel say do or perhaps even stop you know in their life today in the workplace um what what would that be i think i think i know what the answer would be but like what permission slip would you give to others um that might be in a similar position that you were in so now you've got me thinking you said you think you know the answer to the question so now all i'm thinking is what is your answer because i'm thinking do i do i want to give the wrong answer or what answer should i give i probably shouldn't have prefaced it that you probably shouldn't have but now you have so what would you think my answer would be reach out for help yeah speak up don't suffer in silence which is it's i think it's all of them but it's kind of to make it more aware that not being rude but you're not you're not in unique you're you're not the only person that felt feels that way and i can tell you now by getting the permission to talk about it does free you does make you feel a lot more open and free you know i've in recovery i've faced as much adverse adversity as i have outside of it when i was drinking you know but being able to approach it how i've done sober has been fulfilling rewarding super sad you know i my i lost my dad four years ago to lung cancer i was the black sheep of the family you know but because of that give it having this permission being open being to talk about it i went from that black sheep to the person he called upon i'm one of eight called upon yeah yeah massive a lot of power cuts no television that had to pass time somehow.

34:08Michael Smith: To be the person that took him to hospital through all his check-ups for his scans, you know, to be the person he asked to read his eulogy at his funeral, you know, it was, it blew my mind that, you know, by admitting shit had gone downhill by facing up to what I needed to fix and I couldn't fix it alone, I fixed it with support and help. You know, it took me to that place where I had zero regrets when I said my farewells to my dad. You know, I still speak to him every day. You know, I have a pot of ashes on my desk at home. I have him built into a painting in my living room. and that's because of having permission, giving permission to speak freely how I feel.

35:09Michael Smith: You're not alone. You know, we're not unique. We really aren't. People have walked in the same paths that we've walked in, you know, although we think we're the only people. You know, I think that's probably the permission I would give, but also on a personal permission you've you have my permission to find me on linkedin and drop me a message that's lovely and say hey you know uh i'm happy to talk about this it was shit it got good on what i did in between do you have full permission to message me as well that's Lovely. Do you, before we, before we close out, do you still struggle with thoughts of wanting to have a drink?

36:00And if so, how do you, how do you manage that day to day? Cause as you said, there's stuff that comes up.

36:06Michael Smith: Yeah. So I don't have a drinking problem. I've got a thinking problem. Right. And that's, I still have that today. You know, I still obsess, obsess about everything, like I did obsess about drinking drugs. You know, I obsess about cycling today. Michael Smith on TikTok, find me, it's awesome. But, you know, I've got tools to help me, to ground me. You know, fortunately, and I'm super, super, super lucky, um the want the need to drink or take drugs today and for the past nearly eight years has has left me you know and i'm well done thank you um so i i'm really fortunate in that respect but i still have those massive i'm still i still think this i want to having a drink taking a drug was to change the way I feel I still want to change the way I feel with other things shopping cycling you know content whatever it might be I want to do I want to so but I need to be aware so I one of the things I do use and funnily enough I was on a bike ride with a a friend of mine on Saturday Saturday called Grant and he was talking about something that he has no control over so i talked him through the serenity prayer and i said that's what i use when i can't control something when i want to control something that i can't control when i want to fix something that i can't fix and i and i use the serenity prayer do you want to just just for people that may not know what the serenity prayer is you want to just just say it so the serenity or explain it yeah no so basically it's grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change the courage to change the things i can and the wisdom to know the difference so in short let go of the stuff you've got zero control over focus on the stuff that you can control and understand the difference between the two that's literally i've where i use that the most is flying because i hate flying and if turbulence kick in that for me i've got no control over but so I use the serenity prayer on that that's probably one of the things I use the other is that I'm super fortunate to have people like you in my life people like you that I can phone up and say you know what Danny it's kind of bit wonky and more often than not as soon as I've picked up that phone or I'll put that phone down actually no even when that phone is ringing before you've even answered or whoever's answered the phone my problem is probably reduced by five percent my obsession for something is reduced by five percent and by the time I get off that call with you or somebody else it's no longer a problem I'm not obsessing about it I've realized yeah I was a little bit of a dick thinking that way because I narrow my focus went to one thing but that support is is is huge you know I'm super grateful super grateful of the smaller things in life the littler things in life the simpler things the free things in life you know I'm super grateful that I have you know my kids are healthy I'm super grateful that I have a roof over my head I have water in the tap you know that's what I'm grateful about today you know I'm grateful that I've had another day where I haven't taken a drink.

39:53Michael Smith: Little things, nothing that you can't put a number or monetary value to any of those things I've just said. And I'll tell you that, and it is part of my AA recovery. It's what I do as I put my head on the pillow every night. I don't write it down like some people do, but I go through what I'm grateful for. And it really does put me to sleep in a better place than feeling about stress, worry, and anxiety. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today and being so honest and so candid. Remind me, it's SITSIL, the initiative with Sober. Oh, so SPILL. SPILL. So yeah, Sober People, Industry Lads and Ladies, just reach out to me.

40:36Michael Smith: We're a WhatsApp group. We're a support, we're a community. There's 120, 150 of us. Amazing. which just bored from a conversation at Madfest. Amazing. And, you know, it just grew from there. So Spill was a big part of my life. And, yes, it's a great little initiative. I'm still yet to be invited, just to be clear. Oh, my God. I think I have to be invited. Okay. Don't worry. Don't worry. It's fine. I'll read it. But if you want to, guys, if you want to find out more about Spill, reach out to Michael Smith equally if you just want to have a chat around stuff that's going on in your head or you have family that might be affected I'm sure Michael and certainly I would be happy to talk to you again thank you so much for your candid honesty today we need more people like you that are willing to show that it's okay not to be okay and not to suffer in silence so I appreciate you coming on I know you've got to get off to Madfest so I'll let you go and listeners, yeah can't wait to play the next episode to you when we record it