The Guy Who Had It All (And Nearly Lost Himself)

0:00Paul Sculfor: When do the images we see online become too much for us to handle? Job at Writers Theatre is an intense psychological thriller that skewers the insidiousness of the internet, the meaning of work, and the ramifications of a secret revealed. The off-Broadway sensation and edge-of-your-seat thriller about big tech and even bigger secrets is on stage at Writers Theatre April 9th through June 14th.

0:32I'm Danny White-Scorn and this is Behind the Title. From his success as a male model and partnering with some of the biggest brands in the industry, today we're joined by Paul Scholfer, who's enjoyed an exciting and varied career. Beyond being a familiar face, some might recognize him as a judge and host on Britain's Next Top Model. Paul also founded Stride Foundation. Stride is an organization designed to help people walk away from addiction. the outside looked incredibly shiny incredibly fantastic really sexy really fun and if i read that on paper about my life i'd be like i'd like to do that i'd like to be that person but on the inside yeah there was a lot of emotional and mental pain with an addict they the brain just wires itself to try and survive it's always important to ask for help to be honest and say i just can't do this anymore addiction is a common yet highly misunderstood public health issue which directly affects one in ten individuals in the UK and Paul is doing amazing work through Stride and his own podcast This Is Powerful.

1:36Paul, welcome to Behind the Title. It's lovely to have you. Thank you for joining. For those that may not know you because I don't think you're necessarily directly in the cold face of what I do um maybe just give a bit of intro to yourself and your kind of career background um and why it was important to come on to the podcast today it was important to come on because you asked me and i want you to come on my podcast um yeah so uh my name is paul scolfer i have been a fashion model for 30 years lived over the world um shot lots of commercials editorials been in the movies which was fun, presented a couple of TV shows.

2:20The last one was Britain's Next Top Model, which is a fashion show here. And of late, I run my foundation I started 14 years ago called Stride Foundation UK, where we do school talks to educate kids on addiction. And I host my own podcast called This Is Powerful, which is associated with stride foundation because we are trying to break the stigma of addiction to really explain it is a disease because oddly it's still not recognized that even though it was proven in the 50s we try to educate people and break the stigma through that and i wanted to come on here hey because you asked me we've been talking and i think it's important for two guys to talk about a subject like this because there's still a big stigma attached misunderstanding and guys you know fortunately we're two guys that know ourselves well and can talk but a lot of people still can't yeah we we had um we had a uh gentleman called michael smith come on in the in the first series and he talked about his experience with addiction actually it's the the way that we met was because i had shared quite openly in a piece of content i'd done with channel four around my challenge with mental health and being part of a fellowship.

3:40And I'd never met him before. And he sent me a message on LinkedIn. He said, I'd heard your video and I thought it was awesome. And I was a little bit, but I'm always blown away when people message me about the podcast and stuff I've done in the past. It turns out Michael lives 15 minutes from me. Oh, nice. and um we kind of connected and bonded over our experience in recovery um you know we're both part of a 12-step fellowship and actually you know that's where we met many many many years ago as we said i think we haven't seen each other in in a long time um but i think that in the world of media and entertainment and advertising it's it's quite astonishing how many people are probably exposed to substances and maybe get caught up in substance abuse and either don't understand one the ability to say no if they have the power maybe they don't but also that a lot of the time there are resources and support that's readily available actually most of the time free of charge as well i think last year or i think it was last year there about 140 ,000 people in the UK that were receiving treatment for substance abuse.

5:01What's your experience, I guess, with current here and now and the Stride Foundation and why most people are ending up in treatment for substance abuse? We're tiny as a charity, but we've just helped put someone in this week who is in this kind of industry. And I don't think most people make it to treatment, if I'm honest with you. There's a lot of people, we try and put as many people as we can in, but it's difficult because we're small and we focus more now on the school program. They're not always affordable. I think the cheapest one's about six and a half thousand for 28 days. The most expensive is 150 ,000 for 28 days.

5:47So there's a broad spectrum. a treatment centre acts as really like an airbag for people to land in a soft place which is safe to allow them to get out of their environment for a period of time to introduce hopefully into a 12-step program or smart recovery and change the narrative there's an internal narrative that goes on with everybody anyway but with someone that suffers from addiction you have a real strong internal narrative as well as an external life and they don't always work together. If we go just back a step, so obviously you mentioned you've kind of lived all over the world and you've kind of had a career in modeling, acting, I guess outwardly to most people that feels like quite a glamorous, you know, life that either they aspire to or they want to kind of get behind the scenes of, right?

6:39Because it feels like it's quite exciting and but I guess it probably wasn't for you um maybe at the time but actually the the end result you know i think i've read a few things and maybe you can fact check me if they're incorrect but everything from you know um how it was quite normalized to use substances at work um the celebrations at the end of a big shoot um i think at one point you talked about uh sprinkling something onto your breakfast you know to kind of pick you up talk me through how you as an individual at that time either did or didn't have the power of choice as to what you should or shouldn't be doing i.e taking drink or drugs and and i and i guess really where i want to get to is a moment where you looked fine on the outside but on the inside everything was crumbling i've been sober over 21 years now so it's a long time ago um in the 90s it was completely different fashion was sexy tv was sexy music was it was fun it was brilliant uh it was less corporate minded as it is now you could speak more freely and it was a very cool period um and when you do fashion shows the the intensity is it's like i don't know it's like going to your favorite music concert and you're right at the front and the music's loud and everyone's like, yeah, let's do this.

8:15And everyone's the same. And it's a really good thing. But if you're doing like five shows a day, it's like a very, it's a, it's a big high and it's, it's fun and it's, it's really cool. And you know, it's took months of someone to create something that you're wearing and the press is out there taking pictures and it's just, it is a sexy thing. And it was not unusual to have champagne there because everyone's worked for months and they've done a good job and everyone would celebrate. um so it was normal i've never done a corporate job so i don't know what that's like um early on i was really into my fitness um i never really liked alcohol i've seen what it's done to people around me um and drugs was a no-no for me in my mindset that was for losers and um i had tried them early on but i loved the feeling of being in control and i loved the feeling of being fresh

9:11and you know it's the disease of alcoholism incredible because I never thought I would have it and it slowly creeps up on you so so in in the midst of hard work and excitement you'd always have downtime and all the boys would either be smoking joints or drinking over parties and in that in that game when you're successful be it you're doing a shoot in Athens or whatever your agent or someone else will see like you're invited to a club they've sent you a car here's a table there's your liquor have a good time and that was normal and i'm not saying it was a bad thing it was a wonderful time it was a really romantic time it was great it was fun um and there was a couple of times that i thought hang on a minute i'm i don't want to go to work today I feel exhausted.

10:04I mean, you know, I was flying sometimes a hundred times a year. It was a lot. But that was unlike me, to switch from got a job, going to do it, going to meet more people, this is going to be amazing, to like, oh, my God, I've got to get up. I don't feel like this. Let's put some eye drops in. Let's have a strong coffee. And my energy and the whole thing started to change. I think around 97, 98 was an incredibly powerful and busy time for me. I was doing lots of campaigns and flying a lot. But I started to kind of break down inside, like not be my authentic self, trying to people please, losing boundaries, just starting to mess up in that sense.

10:50even though I'd turn up for work, I'd work hard and just go off and party after and party hard. And it was difficult because there was people around me that were doing the same. So it didn't seem abnormal. It seemed the only place to go to. And there was no one there really to say, maybe don't do that. That was actually one of my thoughts as you're saying that. I'm thinking parents, siblings, friends, no one. kind of shining a spotlight on this? No. So my mum and dad had no idea. Right. I never lived at home since I was 21, I think, something like that. And I was always on the road. Sometimes I wouldn't see my parents for a year.

11:38So everything was away. Sister wouldn't know. My parents wouldn't know. It was shocking to them that I had a problem, basically. And for the last two years, I think of, of, um, partying, I was living abroad anyway for the whole period of time. There's only when I come back that there was like, my mum said to me, you're okay. You don't look okay. Like you really don't look okay. And again, I was like, no, I'm fine. Everything's fine. Um, so there was a period then when, when the outside looked incredibly shiny, incredibly fantastic, um, really sexy, really fun. And if I read that on paper about my life, I'd be like, I'd like to do that.

12:17I'd like to be that person. but on the inside yeah there was um a lot of emotional and mental pain during my time getting sober there were so many times when i wish i'd said something like i could i could recall many where i just on a sunday i'd be like that's it i'd get rid of everything you know whatever it was and i'd swear that was it i'd had enough no more and then the monday midday would come and i'd be stuck in that same place in that same cycle where I had no control. I had no, I had no physical or mental control over my addiction. You know, I now understand, you know, one is too many, a thousand is never enough.

13:04Um, I now understand when I've, when I'm not drinking or using substances, then the reality is, is that I'm craving them. Um, but actually I learned that it always came back to like these thoughts like these sitting tenants in my head that have been living up there rent free for like years and years and years but i do feel like there was shit that i wish i'd said like there were moments like did you ever find yourself again through your career where there was even just a glimmer like a chink i probably should i could reach out for help here yeah there was uh definitely later on not early on um mine was like a like a little train crash in the sense that i was just going and going and going and going and going and going and at the end there was a big crash um i did ask for help i went to see a therapist i went to see a hypnotist i did eight hours of yoga sessions i did everything from standing on my head to fast into changing girlfriends, changing cars, moved countries.

14:16I mean, I literally didn't stay in one country more than two months for about seven, eight years. Our bodies, as humans, are really smart. And with an addict, the brain just wires itself to try and survive, be it if you've had trauma or disconnect when you were younger, or you just have – I do believe there's a – I know from the people in the podcast, there's a genetic element to it as well. And I think that the brain just figures out how can we support this body, you know, and it just does it. So all the stuff that served me in the beginning became really detrimental in the end. And because that's hardwired, you can see you're doing stuff that you don't want to do.

14:58I could see behaviors I didn't want to do, but I did. I remember once, you know, I remember once I had a girlfriend and I didn't want to split up, but I moved to LA. She was still in Miami and she'd come to see us and I thought it'd be a good idea because the emotions were quite heightened that I'd smoke a joint and then I'd just drive down there and be fine. And I only had to drive two miles. I knew the route. It was very easy. It took me about three hours to get there. Totally lost and confused. By the time I got there, she said, why are you late? And that was it because I had a really stressful journey there.

15:37That was it. I was like, I only wanted to give her a kiss and a hug and say, let's sort this out. I'm going to end up having an argument. That was it. I think you get hijacked by your brain. And this is why you need to ask, in my view, for help. Because we really are resilient people and we just carry on and try and make it work and say to ourselves, we won't, but we end up doing it. Because the brain just needs to look, it thinks it needs to look after us. And I believe the subconscious doesn't know the right from right from wrong or truth from false. It just does what it does to keep you surviving.

16:11My point, you know, I had a couple of moments and actually my point came when I hadn't showed up for work for a week. I used to work for myself. Um, and actually I've been in my flat just getting off my box and my dad had come round and he's knocked on the door. I don't know why I decided to answer it. And I was, I think I had my dressing gown on and a pair of boxer shorts, like, you know, but I'd looked disheveled. I was slightly yellow gaunt and he stood me in front of the mirror. Um, and he said, is this who you want to be? You know? And, um, and I, and I, I don't, I don't know if I understood it at that point, but I knew that I didn't want to be that person, but I couldn't quite connect what he was saying.

16:58And, um, he asked me, so do you want to go jump to get you some help? And now my dad has, um, has been in another fellowship, uh, for, for many, many years. Um, and so I've learned over the years that there is an element of addiction, which is hereditary, right? It's passed down through genetics in some way, shape or form. And, and I have a really special bond with him now, because I might call him on a Saturday morning on the way back from going to a meeting and, and he'll know, but how was your meeting? And I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, how was yours? You know, he hasn't been to one, you know.

17:31That's really important. But that's why he asked that question. Yeah. Because he's obviously done work on himself. I don't know most lads would ask that question. Well, I think at the time, you know, I didn't realize how blessed I was. And then fast forward, unfortunately, he had a blip at some point when I was about two years sober. And I was able to help him. And he went into treatment and whatnot. but I find it really interesting when you, when you look at the family dynamics and you look at, um, again, some of the genetics and, and I don't have enough of a knowledge to be able to kind of talk through some of that stuff.

18:07But at that point, I, I knew that I wanted to get help and, um, reached out to actually a mutual that I mentioned to you, mutual contact that took me to my very first meeting. And I don't know what it was, but I just felt at peace, sat down and i just heard people talk and i was like wow like i i felt like that or i i've acted like that and and i think over the years i've now understood more about this being an illness and so i kind of want to shift the upper gear because we talk a lot about triggers right in this podcast and certain triggers that um cause people to act or respond in a certain way Now in recovery, we talk about it as defects of character, right?

18:58Things that are behavior traits that just cause me to think, act, and do things in a certain way. During your time in your career, but also more so now, because I realize that addiction doesn't leave me. I will be a recovering, you know, addict, alcoholic for the rest of my life. Are there certain kind of triggers that you experienced back then that always made you just be like, fuck it, I'm going to have a drink? Yeah, triggers is a funny word. I think that if you don't know yourself deeply and you don't do any self-searching or admit any of your, if you want, character defects, then you're driving blind.

19:50It's like an architect not having a blueprint of a building and they go back in to do something. They wouldn't know where things are. so to answer your question when I started to have triggers it was mostly something to do with emotional uh reactions or situations where um I didn't not get my own way but like if I was up for a big job and I'd worked for it for three or four months and then we got turned down at last minute I'd be like oh I'm just gonna go out so it's either a reward or something's used to cover the pain up so i'm quite an introvert and i don't like social scenes right which is ironic given your career yeah i had to work on a lot but i can't stand it i'd rather be at home i charge my batteries on my own at home with my family or dog or if i'm walking on my own or riding my own motorbike when i'm with people i get drained very quickly so i always knew i had a certain amount of energy.

20:53So I would use substances to have the energy or to take away the conscious feeling of I'm separate from these people. And that would be most of my triggers. And having more awareness of that now, you're obviously in a different place, family, kids, are your triggers different or are you just more aware of them? Good question. I wouldn't call them triggers now. I'm aware of them that, for example, you know,

21:25So after we had lockdown, we was going to go on a family holiday. And it's the first time for years I hadn't flown for a year. I think I didn't fly for a year. And I was like, I have anxiety about flying again. And I used to have anxiety for flying. And it went. And I thought, God, I've got to get on the plane. I've got to do this routine. I've got to see the security. And it started to build up. So I booked a flight. to Ibiza for two days on my own to go through the process to know I was okay. So I worked a little bit to, I put effort in instead of going, I'm not going, or I'm taking something while we're flying.

22:03I've got the responsibility of the kids. So I'll jump in, do something, go, yeah, no, that's not right. Whatever fear was going on is not correct. So I'll do it. Obviously you've got Stride Foundation, you've still got work, you've got family. what kind of keeps you sane you know and in a kind of fit condition well externally yeah yeah it's good to take responsibility but if you're running for a plane and it's late it's not your fault what's your fault is do i start screaming at everyone that you've made me stressed out or whatever or do i say this is really frustrating but i'm just going to be cool about it because it is as it is and I'm going to accept the situation.

22:46So I think just to be clear, if you're a leader and you've got people working for you, managing people is incredibly difficult. You know, we're all on this planet, all trying to do our stuff, all trying to feed our families or get a big career, whatever. And there's a lot of pressure. And there's a lot of things that go unsaid that, well, you're in that position, so you should be the one that everyone goes to. in my experience uh that can be really really overwhelming sure you can't say to him i'm having a bit of a moment i'm gonna i'm burning out here and whatever you there's ways of doing things ways of saying it but what i would say from personal experience is that if you are that person and you have a lot of responsibility but you've got to carry on doing the job is to seek someone or something that works for you whether it's um it could be as simple as a yoga or therapy with someone where you can change your nervous system just to bring you down or whether you see a therapist or a coach or whatever it is but find something that helps because we are only human and we will burn out before covid uh i had stopped going to meetings for a couple of years because life got good and fast forward i ended up going back into therapy again um and they taught me and i carry it through and i've mentioned the podcast quite a few times they taught me about the ace framework which is um every day try to get a sense of achievement by doing something um whether that's taking out the rubbish through to cleaning your car through to helping someone across the road you know whatever it may be um connect so connect one-to-one connect in a group with individuals um that can give you more than just living up you know in my head and then enjoy right which is find a sense of enjoyment small wins are really important for human beings.

24:55Connection's paramount. Unfortunately in our society, we're really pushed to disconnect because it's about what you have, what you wear, what position, look at the differences, you're not from where I'm from. And it's really hard to connect. And we talk at people rather than with people because we're afraid of being intimate in the sense that saying I'm having a bad day or finding this difficult. And especially at the moment, it's a very weird thing where you You can't talk about politics or people and, and everyone's on edge. And it's really important to be able to look someone in the eye and have a genuine conversation that maybe doesn't go anywhere else.

25:37So you have a small cohort, be it in work or in your family, wherever, where there's not, it's just an honest conversation of relief and understanding of where you're at. And, you know, there's an old thing where a problem shared is a problem halved, and it really is. Energetically, it can take one sentence and someone to look at you and go, okay, I got you. That's all I have to say. And that can just relieve a lot of that pressure, you know. Well, I'll get a bit honest here, right? We're sitting here, we're having a conversation. You know, I don't mind. One of the biggest challenges that I'm faced with at the moment is where I go in my career next.

26:19because you know as i've had some amazing senior leaders come and talk almost people that i've modeled my career on over this podcast all i keep hearing is how it's almost turned their lives in a direction they didn't want to go and i'm still battling i've put down boundaries over the last few years but i'm still battling do you want that big big job over there or do you want to have the job over here which is still rewarding but actually doesn't give you the pressure and the stresses and the strains and create isolation you know because all of a sudden when you're in that big senior role you are a little bit isolated everyone's looking at you um and it's hard it's really hard um it's hard as a a parent to a stepson you know i really struggle i struggle with making the right decisions about school right now i struggle with being uh a step parent i had to go to um my partner's uh ex-husband's wedding last weekend love him love him and his partner they're amazing we have a beautiful blended family but doesn't mean that it's easy for me to do this stuff and all of these sorts of thoughts and behaviors you can't normally discuss them openly yeah they just feel taboo they feel and also you you don't want to burden someone whereas i don't know i feel compelled to share it with you right now because you understand probably what i'm probably thinking and feeling and at the same time I know that I get more from that just opening up yeah what you've got to remember is a gift in this is that by sharing something with someone else you're actually giving them a gift instead of burdening them burden them would be uh I don't like my car I want to get a new one but never get a new one and keep saying I don't like my car if you can say to someone I don't like my car and they can say what do you want to do about it I don't know.

28:29I'm confused. Can you help me? Yeah, there you go. So it depends on the perspective of that. You can also do, you can also be a really high-powered job and enjoy it. And the pressure depends on your perception. You know, it's like if you're going to go to the gym and train hard, not everyone wants to train hard. It's bloody difficult. You have to eat the right food, do the right stuff. But if you want that, the hardness is in part of the enjoyment. Yeah. You know? and I really try and find a balance with my family money and what I enjoy doing because I've gone from like totally doing what I want to do don't care to totally people pleasing to being confused at what I want to do and I've really found that in the height of pressure there's there's a sort of trust in the universe that if you if you're honest and you just take the right steps.

29:24It's amazing. You know what? I never used to ask for help. I rarely do now, but I've had some stuff going on recently where I've said to people, do you know what? I'd really like your advice. And some of them said, really? And I'm like, yeah, just tell me. And I start asking just people and just the amount of wisdom that can come from one, you know, from a word or a sentence with anybody. It's incredible. So I feel like vulnerability for me used to be a weakness and I feel now it's a strength. I want to get into just, uh, you talked about the, the, the train crash. Um, and I'd love to unpack a little bit about, was there like a moment?

30:09It sounds like there was like metaphorically or physically where you, you actually had to stand yourself in front of a mirror and say enough is enough. Like what happened in that period which made you decide to go the path that you have been on for the last 21 years? Yeah. I never had mirrors in my place. I still don't have a full mirror in our house. We only got them in the bathroom because it's a thing to do. Don't have mirrors. I never liked them. I couldn't look in the mirror. I hated it. And it's really funny. This is the problem I had is that I hated the reflection that I looked back in the mirror on a shoot, having my hair done, being paid for the job.

30:50Obviously, you've got to have a look to be paid for the job. I don't have that anymore, but I think that's the thing with a disease that strips you of any self-esteem, morals, and fills you with shame and guilt and everything. It's hard to look at yourself because whilst you're looking at yourself, there's a narrative that goes on of what you could have been, what you could do. And it's just painful. In my experience being a sober person, you can get that to a point where it's not really there, you know, and that's in a humble way, not in a gloating way. It's hard work. It's very hard work. When I first started to act in Los Angeles, I went to a Meisner technique class with this amazing teacher called Janet Elhanty.

31:45And we, there's an exercise in there where you repeat and hold hands with the other person, looked him in the eye. First time I'd done it for a long time. And, um, I was having all sorts of breakdowns on stage. I feel like I need to go on that. You're standing in front of you with that. And, and emotions. And it was really good. What it done was everything that I've been holding on like this and gripping my hands about, just released in one go. And it was amazing. It's such a great craft that it just blew me open, basically. and I think that was the start of my recovery because I've become mindful aware I started to look in things and that was in that was in the late 90s early 2000 I think um but ultimately I'd been trying to stop using and drinking at that point against my will I'd phone friends up and they'd be saying we're going to this place I'm not going tonight because I don't want to drink oh come on come out like I only have one make sure I have one and I'm putting it on everyone else.

32:43Just make sure I have one. Obviously it doesn't work. So finally, I'd been trying to stop for a long time by not going out, by not seeing people, by, you know, putting all sorts of measures in place, which is really sad because you imprison yourself, not going to parties, not networking at work, just shutting down with fear. And I see this a lot with people who choose to not drink but don't address something, and they just get smaller and smaller. So my life was getting smaller, and I went to a party on a Friday night, a charity event, and just on the way there, I was already intoxicated, and I just had a breakdown, I think, on the way.

33:30And when I got there, my friend was like, what happened to you? like you look like in a bad way i just said just get me to the bar let's just just just have some jack and coke and wine and just drunk lots consumed other things went drove people back to my apartment they was going into central london and i just said i don't want to go and they're like oh come on what's the matter and i felt like my world was just about to collapse and um i kind of felt like metaphorically dying. But I did when they, when they left, I carried on until six in the morning, just collapsed on the floor. And, um, and that was the last time I ever touched anything.

34:16Did you get help immediately the day after? So I, it's very confusing, but I can't remember. I remember being on the phone once to someone saying I'm dying. I remember stranger being on the phone. Don't know who it was from a helpline. Um, Um, but, uh, I phoned a friend of mine who's a very straight goer and just said, I'm really in trouble. And, um, can I come around? I went to his house, burst out crying. I was like, I really need help. And it was sincere and he's very practical guy. And he just said, right, what do you want to do? And I said, I've seen, I've read about a treatment center. I just need to go there.

34:54And he took me straight there and got admitted in. And that was the beginning of my journey. That day? Yeah. Wow. and when you came out of treatment obviously probably quite a hard time right to normalize back into society yeah i mean at the time god i remember i was in there for two weeks i found my agent and uh i just said i'm in here and she was brilliant she was like that's great we'll support you do you need anything no one come up to see me but they said you need anything we'll send you some M &S pajamas or whatever you want. And she was particularly lovely. And another one of my agents in America sent me a poem and a beautiful writing every week for a year.

35:40And I'll never forget those two people because a lot of people just went on and, you know, did their own thing. But these two people were amazing. And in my second week, I was offered a big movie part. and like come to Los Angeles, you know, you've auditioned for it before, you're down to the last few. And this was big stuff. Whether I would have got it or not, I don't know. But it was a moment where I sat on my bed in a treatment centre, kind of like what you just said, do I want, am I going to do that? Or am I going to do this? That could be big house in Hollywood, lots of money and shiny stuff.

36:25which I've had, but would be amazing. But this side could be dull, boring, whatever on the outside. But I need to reboot myself. I need to live because of all of the stuff at the end, the cars, the watches, relationships and everything never worked. It was never enough. It just didn't do anything for me. It's what I thought I wanted you to see me have rather than what I wanted to have. I chose life and, you know, sure, 20 years later, I don't have the mansion in Hollywood Hills, but I have stuff and I'm enjoying my life. I feel like I have choices. I feel like I have freedom. I have good friends and good family.

37:15I'm becoming the person I really want to be, you know, instead of the person that you want me to be. and it took me a long time to adjust not having to have the latest jacket the latest shoes the latest car or one of 50 cars or the latest watch i don't wear stuff now and not because i don't have it but it's because i don't need to if i want to i will but i don't need to and need and want's big big difference you know before we bring it to a close i'm curious and i'm sure other people will be um what kind of makes you tick now obviously you've got family i think i think i read you know huge into kind of uh bikes motorsport um i know that you box once upon a time do you you do you go to the gym a lot you know what are you using as an outlet there like what makes paul paul now aside that peace of mind and that kind of acceptance as to who you are it's a good question i'm now In my mid-50s.

38:17No, you're not. It's hard to believe.

38:23It's a good question. My kids and my wife make me tick. I love them dearly. I'm so grateful and lucky to – she's a brilliant lady, my wife, and we're completely different from completely different backgrounds, different cultures. And we have the same intention, which is just to bring up these two young people to best of our ability to hope they make a good impact you know in the world and and um things change for me i don't stay with one thing you know i've worked really hard in our charity and and the podcast to make a change and we have main changes we don't talk about them but i get private messages about stuff that's really heartwarming um i don't know where i'm gonna go next I want to continue this and then probably put it over to someone else to run um I love being free I do I do train um I've always trained and I feel that's really imperative especially when you've got young kids to to fight with them and and whatever um I don't know there's a lot of difficulties in life at the moment generally and I try and stay out of the news um even though I'm introvert people make me tick i love having conversations i love sitting there with someone wherever it may be and just talking about life i do not do small talk i can't stand it that's why i struggle in big crowds everyone's like hey man what you're up to yeah what's this do you know johnny have you done that and i'm just like can we just talk about something else like how are you and um that's what makes me tick is is interactions relationships moments in in in life you know um yeah that's probably what makes me do you still enjoy being in the public eye if that's what i don't know how it's referred yeah i mean i don't think i am but i am i love doing the podcast i still love doing fashion i mean i'm old i don't know they still use me and um it's great and i love it and i'm it's weird because i always used to be the young dude on set and now i'm the old dude on set and i'm a little bit like they advise ask me advice and stuff and i and i give it um so i love that i've got different things going on you know i've just been actually just been asked to be in a film again and i haven't acted for like five or six years although my wife might disagree with that um i might do that i don't know it would be you know before when i was younger it was all about the prestige oh wow i'm in a magazine or i'm like that i look in a way now i'm like i'm really grateful for that picture you know it's really it's a nice little thing to have It was a nice day.

41:03It's a nice story. That might sound boring to people. But for me, you know, going back to all these little wins in life, you know, the nice moments and nice stuff. To be in a place where you can pause, reflect and say, I don't know, I'm just enjoying it for what it is, I think is hugely powerful. I really do. like that that just that ease that comfort that i used to get from substances i now get from just saying i'm not sure and i've had to learn a lot of that myself over the last year um i've had a coach who's really kind of in fact they one of the things they said to me which stuck to me danny you're probably gonna be working for the next 25 years of your life so whatever you're in your head manifesting that you think you want now what do you think is going to happen in three years time you're either going to continue to chase that or you'll peek in your head too early and you'll find yourself thinking well what's next i can catch myself sometimes saying oh i want i want to get this in in in 2026 there's loads of new motorbikes and i've got the list of like maybe i should have the adventure bike maybe i want that bike maybe I want to do that one and wouldn't it be nice if I had this house with this stuff and then I sit there with myself and I have to look around I'm like oh I've got what I want I've got what I've always wanted in the sense of I have a couple of toys but I've got the love of my family and all the stuff which may sound soft and gooey but when you have been so alone close to death you know pretty much burn your life to the ground these things are important I couldn't agree more I mean I never thought I'd meet someone from southeast London that was getting divorced that had a child of 18 months old at the time when we met and I find myself here eight years later where I'm a step parent I am responsible for another human being i am finding that i draw boundaries at work you know in order to make sure that i can give enough time i'm not always not always like fully immersed in it but i'm there and i'm present as much as i can be and so there is something quite i don't know there is something quite warm and gooey about that it's just it's just nice you know i really everyone everything i hear is all about the biggest, the better, the fastest, the most powerful, the more money, right?

43:44And every time, you know, I'm very lucky, I've been on some very nice shots and private planes and all these things. They, in my view, money bring, money's so important, but it brings about freedom. It doesn't bring happiness. They're a different thing. You know, if you, if you're having a bad week and you have the money, you can go on a holiday. Amazing. That will, in effect, give you happiness from freedom. But I really think it's, for me personally, it's living in the middle that's the balance, that's the happiness. You know, it's not extremes. I've done extremes all my life. They don't work.

44:26They give you an adrenaline hit. You feel like you're a legend. Amazing. But they don't bring happiness. So let's bring it to a close. I've loved this chat. It's been hugely kind of eye opening to hear someone talk about addiction and certainly what they're doing with the Stride Foundation to support others. um it we talk about the permission slip um and what permission people will give people either to kind of think feel say do in terms of just behaving differently or acting differently what permission slip would you give to those that are maybe not sure if they're suffering with addiction or are in active addiction um that they can kind of go and uh take forward themselves well usually if you're in active addiction you don't know you're in active addiction because these are your coping mechanisms and what your substance be it alcohol or if you're smoking marijuana whatever it is will be your friend that's your support system at one point that will stop working that's when you have to make a decision do i ask for help or do i not ask for help and asking for help at that point feels like your whole world's uh gonna fall down you're admitting that you've lost the game that you are a loser you can't do it anymore all the negative stuff but what you're doing is actually just about to start a new game so for example if i'm driving down the motorway i've got four flat tires i'm running out of gas and i'm still trying to go and there's a garage there, wouldn't it be better to pull into the garage and say I've got four flat tires, cars kaput, what do I do?

46:23And then I would get a new one, I'll get the guy to do it and then you're off and running again. You know, so I think it's always important to ask for help, to be honest and say I just can't do this anymore. But ask a professional or, you know, you can go online and Google so much stuff about 12-step meetings or ask Frank or, you know, smart recovery or rehabs, just ask. People can help. That's what I'd do if I was in active addiction. If I'm confused about something, I don't ask myself, have I got a cornflake addiction? Because I don't have a cornflake addiction. I don't eat them. So if I'm asking myself, do I have a problem in this area?

47:08The question itself is important because if there wasn't anything, you wouldn't be asking it. Paul it's been a pleasure to have you on here it's been nice to reconnect however short time or long time ago we spoke just remind people what the Stride Foundation does and how and if they can support in any way thanks Danny yeah so we're changing we've changed a lot what we're trying to do now is we were supporting people by paying for their treatment it's very expensive for short small charities So we've pretty much pivoted. So what we do do, we offer school talks and we're focusing on that and the education of that.

47:51And we're trying to figure out a policy where if a parent of a child in a school, and this is very difficult for safeguarding, if we can somehow figure out the mechanisms where we can treat the parent and support the child, that's what we'll do. So we're there really now to break the stigma. we have a few people we put into treatment but we're very very limited we do need donations so if you go on the website stridefoundation.co.uk we're doing some charity runs coming up that we're putting on there and different things and what we're trying to do really is prevention now for kids you know because when we started there wasn't many charities or treatment centres that would help you out with bursaries but now that's becoming quite available.

48:42So we're going to focus on more on the education side. Which I think is hugely important, right? If we can, it's behaviour change, right? If you can reach them before they've even... You don't know what you don't know, Danny. Yeah. If you do know, you have a choice. And on that, we'll leave it. Thank you so much for coming on, Paul. It's been great to have you. And I know that lots of our listeners will love hearing about what you're doing, but also understanding more about the challenges and the stigmas that exist with addiction. So appreciate your time. Danny, thank you very much.

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