CZM Rewind: The Case Against Generative AI (Part 2)

26 Dec 2025 · 29 min

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In short

Better Offline: Episode Summary

Podcast Title

Better Offline Podcast Description *Better Offline* is a weekly show that explores the tech industry’s influence on society, critiquing the growth-at-all-costs mentality of tech elites. Hosted by tech veteran Ed Zitron, the show employs narrative storytelling, interviews, and panel discussions to unveil the schemes and scams within the tech industry.

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Episode Title

CZM Rewind: The Case Against Generative AI (Part 2) Episode Description In this second part of a four-part series on generative AI, Ed Zitron analyzes how NVIDIA supports financially unviable "neoclouds" to mask the declining demand for generative AI compute.

Original Air Date

October 1, 2025

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Key Themes and Concepts

The Flawed Growth Model of Generative AI

  • Zitron argues that the growth narrative surrounding generative AI is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable.
  • Identifies key players, particularly NVIDIA and OpenAI, as driving forces pushing a misleading narrative of demand and profitability.

Economic Implications of AI Compute

  • Generative AI is characterized by high costs due to the reliance on expensive GPUs.
  • Companies must invest significantly in infrastructure to make AI viable, leading to unsustainable business practices.

Hallucinations in AI Models

  • The concept of "hallucinations" in AI models is discussed, where models generate erroneous outputs.
  • Zitron expands the definition of hallucinations to include misunderstandings of user intent, leading to inefficiencies and inaccuracies.

The Neocloud Phenomenon

  • Neoclouds refer to companies like CoreWeave and Lambda that provide access to AI compute resources.
  • These companies are heavily indebted, relying on a revolving door of financing from NVIDIA and other major players to sustain operations.

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Key Arguments

  1. Generative AI as a Financial Bubble
  2. Zitron describes generative AI as being in a "bubble," fueled by unrealistic expectations and financial maneuvers.
  3. He emphasizes that the perceived demand for AI does not translate into actual profitability for these companies.
  1. NVIDIA's Role
  2. NVIDIA is portrayed as the primary benefactor of the generative AI hype, benefiting from its monopoly on high-powered GPUs.
  3. The company invests in neoclouds and uses them as a vehicle to secure further GPU sales, perpetuating a cycle of debt.
  1. Problems with Current Business Models
  2. The reliance on large-scale GPU clusters is economically precarious, as most neoclouds are financially unsustainable.
  3. Companies like Microsoft and Amazon face losses when renting out AI compute resources, questioning the viability of the AI business model.

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Conclusion

  • Zitron concludes with a warning about the dark future of the generative AI landscape, indicating that without a sustainable business model and diverse revenue streams, the industry is likely headed for significant challenges.
  • He encourages listeners to critically evaluate the narratives pushed by tech elites and understand the economic realities of generative AI.

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Key Takeaways

  • Generative AI is currently viewed as a bubble with no clear path to sustainable profitability.
  • NVIDIA plays a critical role in perpetuating this bubble through strategic investments in neoclouds.
  • The economic model surrounding AI compute is fraught with debt and unsustainable practices, posing risks for all stakeholders involved.

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Additional Resources

  • Merchandise: [Better Offline Merch](https://cottonbureau.com/people/better-offline)
  • Newsletter: [Wheres You Red](https://www.wheresyoured.at/)
  • Community: [Discord](https://discord.com/invite/QUUQUP9szv), [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/BetterOffline/)
  • Host Socials:
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  • [BSky Profile](https://bsky.app/profile/edzitron.com)
  • [Threads](https://www.threads.net/@edzitron)

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Thank you for engaging with *Better Offline*. Be sure to tune in for the next part of the series, where Zitron continues to unravel the complexities of generative AI.

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Transcript

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0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

0:31Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-IHEART. I'm Stephen Curry and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product with every sip you get a little something different visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or bevmo this message is intended for audiences 21 and older gentlemen's cut bourbon boone county kentucky for more on gentlemen's cut bourbon please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com please enjoy responsibly have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers who catfishes a city is it even safe to snort human remains?

1:26Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scovel, and I'm here to tell you Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Call Zone Media Hello, I'm Ed Zitron, and this, of course, is Better Offline.

2:06Welcome to the second part of our four-part series where I give you my most comprehensive, most up-to-date explanation of why we're in a bubble and what that even means. The reason why I'm taking my time to be descriptive and comprehensive is because I want this to make sense to those who listen to it. Having written hundreds of thousands of words this year about the AI bubble, so many of the arguments I've made and the secrets I've exposed are contained in their own discreet little episodes or newsletters. This is my series to consolidate all of the information I put out there in one place. And I want to make it make sense to anyone who listens to it.

2:39I want anyone, even someone who doesn't even know that much about AI, to listen to the arguments I've been making for the past three years, to understand why things are dire and to feel the same alarm I'm feeling, or at least understand why I'm alarmed. Because I don't like to tell you how you feel. Old school bit of feedback I got from a listener once, and I appreciate that to this day. Now today I'll make the case that Generative AI's fundamental growth story is flawed, and explain why we're in the midst of an egregious bubble. This industry is sold by keeping things vague, and knowing that most people don't dig much deeper than a headliner, a problem I simply do not have.

3:12This industry is effectively in service of two companies, OpenAI and NVIDIA, who pump headlines out through endless contracts between them or subsidiaries or investments to give the illusion of activity. OpenAI has now promised over$400 billion in the next four years, though honestly, they might owe about a trillion dollars with all the data centers they signed up for. All of these are egregious sums for a company that have already forecasted billions in losses, with no clear explanation as to how it will afford any of this beyond we need more money, and the vague hope that there's another SoftBank or Microsoft waiting in the wings to swoop in and save the day.

3:46Now, I'm going to walk you through where I see this industry today and why I see no future for it beyond a horrible, fiery car wreck. While everybody reasonably harps on about hallucinations, which to remind you is when a model authoritatively states something that isn't true, the truth of why that's bad is far more complex and actually far worse than it seems. You cannot rely on a large language model to do what you want. Even though it's highly tuned models on the most expensive and intricate platforms can't actually be relied upon to do exactly what you want. And I know some people might say, well, yes, they do.

4:20Every time? 100 % of the time? A hallucination isn't just when these models say something that isn't true. It's when they decide to do something wrong because it seems the most likely thing to do, or when a coding model decides to go on a wild goose chase, failing the user and burning a ton of money in the process. The advent of reasoning models, those engineered to think through problems in a way reminiscent of a human, but it's not thinking they don't think they have no consciousness, they literally you ask them something and they break down what the prompt might mean and then choose it's not thinking and the expansion of what people are trying to use llms for demands that the definition of an ai hallucination be widened not merely referring to factual errors but fundamental errors in understanding the user's request or intent or what constitutes a task in part because these models as i said cannot think and do not know anything however successful a model might be in generating something good once, it will also often generate something bad, or it'll generate the right thing but in an inefficient and overvibosed fashion.

5:19You do not know what you're going to get each time, and hallucinations multiply with the complexity of the thing you're asking for or whether a task contains multiple steps, which is a fatal blow to the idea of agents. You can add as many levels of intrigue and reasoning as you want, but large language models cannot be trusted to do something correctly or even consistently, let alone every time. Model companies have successfully convinced everybody that the issue is that users are prompting the models wrong And that the people need to be trained to use AI But what they're doing is training people to explain away the inconsistencies of large language models And to assume individual responsibility for what is an innate flaw in how these fucking things work Large language models are also uniquely expensive Many mistakenly try and claim that this is like the dot-com boom or Uber but the basic unit economics of generative AI are insane.

6:09Providers must purchase tens or hundreds of thousands of GPUs, each costing 50 ,000 to 70 ,000 apiece. And the hundreds of millions of or billions of dollars of infrastructure that goes around them are so expensive and hard to install. And that's without mentioning things like staffing or construction or power or water, or even permitting. Then you turn them on and immediately they start losing you money. Despite hundreds of billions of GPUs sold, nobody seems to actually make any of it, other than NVIDIA, of course, the company that makes them, and resellers like Dell and Supermicro who buy the GPUs, put them in servers, and sell them to other people.

6:43Now, if you're an eager listener, I would love to hear from you on one question, and this is just something that's been bouncing around my head. Supermicro. Is NVIDIA a customer of Supermicro? Supermicro is a huge customer of NVIDIA. I read something like 70 % of their cost of goods sold is buying GPUs. But I read that NVIDIA was a customer of them, but I can't find anything else. Reach out easy at betteroffline.com if you've got any thoughts there. Anyway, but back to those resellers, this arrangement works out great for Jensen Huang, the CEO of NVIDIA, and terribly for everybody else. Today, I'm going to explain the insanity of the situation we find ourselves in and why I continue to do this work undeterred.

7:23The bubble has entered its most pornographic, aggressive, and destructive stage, where the more obvious it becomes that we're all cooked here in AI land, the more ridiculous the generative AI industry will act. A dark juxtaposition against every new study that says generative AI does not work, or new story about ChatGPT's uncanny ability to activate mental illness in people. And we're going to start looking at one company, NVIDIA, which now dominates the stock market and has taken extraordinary and dangerous measures to sustain growth that is, to any sane person, completely unsustainable and unrealistic on every level.

7:55But let's start simple. Nvidia is a hardware company that sells GPUs, including consumer GPUs that you'd see in a modern gaming PC. But when you read someone say GPU within the context of AI, they mean enterprise-focused GPUs like the A100, H100, H200, and more modern GPUs like the Blackwell series B200 and GB200, which combines two GPUs with an Nvidia CPU. This is all complex sounding, but I want you to have the groundwork. These GPUs cost anywhere from$50 ,000 to$70 ,000 and require tens of thousands of dollars more of infrastructure. Networking to cluster these server racks of GPUs together to provide compute, and massive cooling systems to deal with the massive amounts of heat they produce, as well as servers themselves that they run on, which typically use top-of-the-line data center CPUs and contain vast quantities of high-speed memory and storage.

8:46While the GPU itself is likely the most expensive single item within an AI server, The other costs, and I'm not even factoring in the actual physical building that the server lives in, or the water or electricity that it uses, well, all this crap adds up. I've mentioned NVIDIA because it has a virtual monopoly in this space. Generative AI effectively requires NVIDIA GPUs, in part because it's the only company really making the kinds of high-powered cards that Generative AI demands, and because NVIDIA created something called CUDA, C-U-D-A, a collection of software tools that lets programmers write software that runs on GPUs, which were traditionally used primarily for rendering graphics in games.

9:22While there are some open-source alternatives, as well as alternatives from Intel, with its Arc GPUs and AMD, NVIDIA's main rival in the consumer space, these aren't nearly as mature or feature-rich. CUDA's been around for 10, 15 years now, and they really knew what they were doing. They also bought a company called Mellanox, which did the high-speed networking back in 2019, I think, for$6 billion. dollars? Anyway, due to the complexities of AI models, one cannot just stand up a few of these GPUs either. You need clusters of thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of them for it to be worthwhile, making any investment in GPUs in the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, especially considering they require completely different data center architecture to make them run.

10:02You've probably read a bunch of stuff about crypto miners turning into AI data center providers. These crypto data centers have to be knocked down and replaced. You can't just put the same GPUs in. It isn't going to work. And with the new Blackwell ones, the brand new ones, and then the Rubens following them, same deal. A common request, like asking a generative AI model to pass through thousands of lines of code and make a change or an addition, may use multiples of these$50 ,000 GPUs at the same time. And so, if you aspire to serve thousands or millions of concurrent users, you need to spend big.

10:35Really, really, really big. It's these factors, the vendor lock-in, the ecosystem, and the fact that generative AI really only works when you're buying GPUs at scale, that underpin the rise of NVIDIA. But beyond the economic and technical factors, there are human ones too. To understand the AI bubble is to understand why CEOs do the things they do. Because an executive job is so vague, they can telegraph the value of their labor by spending money on initiatives and partnerships and stratagem. AI gave hyperscalers the excuse to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on data centers and buy a bunch of GPUs to go in them because that to the markets looks like they're doing something.

11:11By virtue of spending a lot of money in a frighteningly short amount of time, Satya Nadella received multiple glossy profiles, all without having to prove that AI can really do anything, be it a job or make Microsoft money. Nevertheless, AI allowed CEOs to look busy, and once the markets and journalists had agreed on the consensus opinion that AI would be big, All that these executives had to do was buy GPUs and do AI. Or plug AI within their own software products. But really, it was just jump on the big stupid arsehole train.

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12:12Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. I'm Stephen Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

12:53With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'sCutBourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or BevMo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentleman'sCutBourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you. From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players comes Crimeless.

13:33Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalist. And me, Rory Scovel, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meet some memorable antiheroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch and it freaks you out. He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimeless on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

14:18We are in the midst of one of the darkest forms of software in history, described by many as an unwanted guest invading their products, their social media feeds, their boss's empty minds, and resting in the hands of monsters. Every story of AI's success feels bereft of any real triumph, with every literal description of its abilities involving multiple caveats about the mistakes it makes or the incredible costs of running it. Generative AI really exists for two reasons, to cost money and to make executives look busy. It was meant to be the new enterprise software and the new iPhone and the new Netflix all at once, a panacea where the software guys pay one hardware guy for GPUs to unlock the incredible value creation of the future.

14:57In many ways, Genre of AI was always set up to fail, because it was meant to be everything, was talked about like it was everything, is still sold like it's everything, yet for all the fucking hype, it comes down to two companies, OpenAI and NVIDIA. And NVIDIA was, for a while, living high on the hog. All CEO Jensen Huang had to do every three months would say, check out these numbers, and the markets and business journalists would squeal with glee, even as he said stuff like the more you buy the more you save in part tipping his head to the very real and sensible idea of accelerated computing but framed within the context of the cash inferno that's generative AI and it all seems kind of fucking ludicrous.

15:35Huang's showmanship worked really well for Nvidia for a while because for a while the growth was easy. Everybody was buying GPUs. Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Google and to a lesser extent Apple and Tesla made up 42 % of Nvidia's revenue creating at least for the first four a degree of shared mania where everybody justified buying tens of billions of dollars of gpus by saying the other guy's doing it this is one of the major reasons the ai bubble is happening because people conflated nvidia's incredible sales with interest in ai rather than everybody buying gpus at once don't worry i'll explain the revenue side a little bit later we're here for the long haul sit down get comfy you're going to need to be anyway nvidia is now facing a big problem that the only thing that grows forever is cancer.

16:18On September 9th, 2025, the Wall Street Journal said that NVIDIA's wow factor was fading, going from beating analyst estimates by nearly 21 % in its fiscal year Q2 2024 earnings to scraping by with a pathetic, measly 1.52 % beat in its most recent earnings, something that for any other company would be a good thing because they made so much money, but framed against the delusional expectations that Generative AI has inspired, well, the figure looks nothing short of ominous. I quote the Wall Street Journal. Already, NVIDIA's 56 % annual revenue growth rate in its latest quarter was its slowest in more than two years.

16:53If analyst projections hold, growth will slow further in the current quarter. In any other scenario, 56 % year-over-year growth would lead to an abundance of Dom Perignon and Huang signing hundreds of boobs, but this is NVIDIA, and that's just not good enough. Back in February 2024, NVIDIA was booking 265 % year-over-year growth, but in its February 2025 earnings, NVIDIA only grew by a measly, pathetic, disgusting 78 % year-over-year. I'm being sarcastic, of course. It isn't so much that NVIDIA isn't growing, but to grow year-over-year at the rates that people expect is insane. Life was a lot easier when NVIDIA went from$6.05 billion in revenue in Q4 fiscal year 2025 to$22 billion in revenue in Q4 fiscal year 2024.

17:39But for it to grow even 55 % year-over-year, year from Q2 FY2026, I'm just going to truncate that now, which was$46.7 billion to Q2 2027, that would require them to make$72.385 billion in revenue in the space of three months, mostly from selling GPUs, which make up about 88 % of its revenue. Just want to be clear there. In a year, they would have to make$72 billion, just selling pretty much GPUs and the associated hardware in the space of three months. It's insane. This is really, it's too much. It's too much to expect. And this, by the way, would put NVIDIA in the ballpark of Microsoft, who made$76 billion in their last quarterly earnings, and within the neighborhood of Apple, who made$94 billion in their last quarter of earnings.

18:24And they would do this predominantly making money in an industry that a year and a half ago barely made the company$6 billion in a quarter. and the market needs nvidia to perform they must they must as the company makes up seven to eight percent of the value of the s &p 500 it's not enough for nvidia to be wildly profitable or to have a monopsony on selling gpus or for it to have effectively 10x their stock in a few years no no no more more more more always more number must go up it must continue to grow at the fastest rate of anything ever making more and more money selling more and more of these gpus to a small group of companies that immediately start losing money the moment they plug them in.

19:03It's not brilliant, is it? While a few members of the Magnificent Seven could be depended on to funnel tens of billions of dollars into a furnace each quarter, there were limits, even for companies like Microsoft, which had bought over 485 ,000 GPUs in 2024 alone. To take a step back about how people actually make money from buying these GPUs, companies like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon make their money by either selling access to large language models that people incorporate into their products, or by renting out servers full of those GPUs to run inference, the thing to generate the output, or train AI models for companies that develop and market their models themselves, namely Anthropic and OpenAI with some smaller competitors that don't really matter.

19:42That latter revenue stream, renting out GPUs, is where Jensen Huang found a solution to that horrible eternal growth problem, the NeoCloud. Namely, companies like CoreWeave, Lambda, and Nebius. Now, these businesses are fairly straightforward. They own or lease data centers that they then fill full of servers that are full of NVIDIA GPUs, which they then rent out on an hourly basis to customers, either on a per-GPU basis or in large batches for large customers who guarantee they'll use a certain amount of compute and sign up for a long-term agreement, for more than an hour at a time, a couple years perhaps, these larger commitments.

20:17A NeoCloud is a specialist cloud compute company that exists only to provide access to GPUs for AI, unlike Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure, and Google Cloud, all of which to have healthy businesses selling other kinds of compute, with AI, as I'll get into later, failing to provide much of a return on investment at all. It's not just the fact that these companies are more specialized than, say, AWS or Azure. As you've gathered from the name, these are new, young, and in almost all cases incredibly precarious businesses, each with financial circumstances that would make a Greek finance minister blush.

20:49That's because setting up a NeoCloud is expensive. Even if the company in question already has data centers, as Corweave did with its cryptocurrency mining operation, AI requires, as I said, completely new data center infrastructure to run and cool the GPUs. And those GPUs also need paying for, and then there's the other stuff I mentioned earlier, like power, water, and the other bits of the computer, CPU, motherboard, blah blah blah blah blah. As a result, these NeoClouds are forced to raise billions of dollars in debt, which they collateralize using the GPUs they already have, along with contracts from customers, which they then use to buy more GPUs.

21:22That's right, they buy GPUs from NVIDIA, they raise debt on those GPUs, and then they use that debt to buy more GPUs from NVIDIA. It's enough to drive a man insane. CoreWave, for example, has$25 billion in debt on an estimated$5.35 billion of revenue in 2025, losing hundreds of billions of dollars per quarter. Now, you know who also invests in these NeoClouds? You'll never guess. It's NVIDIA. NVIDIA is also one of CoreWeave's largest customers, accounting for 15 % of its revenue in 2024, and just signed a deal to buy$6.3 billion of any capacity that CoreWeave can't otherwise sell to someone else through 2032, an extension of a$1.3 billion 2023 deal reported by the information.

22:06It was also the anchor investment in CoreWeave's IPO, about$250 million. NVIDIA is currently doing the same thing with Lambda, another NeoCloud that NVIDIA invested in, which also plans to go public next year. NVIDIA is also one of Lambda's largest customers, signing a deal with it this summer to rent 10 ,000 GPUs for$1.3 billion over four years. In the UK, NVIDIA has also just invested$700 million in NScale, a former crypto miner that has never built an AI data center that has, despite having no experience, committed$1 billion and or 100 ,000 GPUs to an open AI data center in Norway. On Thursday, September 25th, Nscale announced that it closed another funding round with NVIDIA listed as the main backer, although it's unclear how much money it put in.

22:52It would be safe to assume it's probably at least$100 million. NVIDIA also invested in Nebius, an outgrowth of Russian conglomerate Yandex, and Nebius provides, through their partnership with NVIDIA, tens of thousands of dollars of compute credits the company's NVIDIA's inception startup program. Look, NVIDIA's plan is simple. Fund these NeoClouds, let these NeoClouds load themselves up with debt, at which point they buy bunches of GPUs from NVIDIA, which can then be used as collateral for loans, along with contracts from customers, allowing the NeoClouds to buy even more GPUs from NVIDIA. It is just that simple.

23:24It's infinite money, right? Just money me, money now. You fund the company, the company buys from you, you fund them again, they've used the thing they bought to buy more from you. Unlimited money. Except that is for one small problem. These companies don't really appear to have that many customers and they don't appear to be making much money.

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24:32iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart. I'm Stephen Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, Developing the profile of this beautiful finished product, with every sip you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'sCutBourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or BevMo.

25:10This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentleman'sCutBourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you. From smartless media, campsite media, and big money players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalist. And me, Rory Scovel, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.

Read the full transcript

25:52We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable antiheroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch and it freaks you out. He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I gotta follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimeless on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

26:28As I went into in a recent premium newsletter, NVIDIA funds and sustains NeoClouds as a way of funneling revenue to itself, as well as partners like Supermicro and Dell, resellers that take NVIDIA GPUs, like I mentioned, and put them in service to sell pre-built to customers. These two companies made up 39 % of NVIDIA's revenues last quarter. Yet when you remove hyperscaler revenue, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, OpenAI, and NVIDIA, from the revenues of these NeoClouds, there's barely$1 billion in revenue combined across CoreWeave, Nebius, and Lambda. CoreWeave's$5.35 billion in revenue is predominantly made up with its contracts with NVIDIA, Microsoft, who are offering that compute to OpenAI, Google, who have hired CoreWeave to offer compute to OpenAI, and I'm not kidding, and of course OpenAI itself, which has now promised CoreWeave$22.4 billion in business over the next five years.

27:18This is all a lot of stuff, so I'll make it really simple. There's no real money in offering AI compute, but that isn't Jensen Huang's problem. So we simply will force NVIDIA to hand money to these companies so that they have contracts to point at so they can raise debt to buy more of those GPUs so that NVIDIA can give them more contracts so they can use that to raise more money. It's really bad, all right? It's really bad. When I read this stuff out loud, I feel a little crazy because it's so obviously unsustainable. Neoclouds are effectively giant private equity vehicles that exist to raise money to buy GPUs from NVIDIA, or for hyperscalers to move money around so they don't have to increase their capital expenditures and can, as Microsoft did earlier in the year, simply walk away from deals they don't like with the masses of data center leases they've walked from.

28:05Nebius recently signed a$17.4 billion deal with Microsoft, which even included the clause in its 6k filing, an official filing with the government, that Microsoft can terminate the deal in the event the capacity isn't built by the delivery dates. And by the way, Nebius already used the contract that Microsoft gave them to raise$3 billion to I'm not cheating you here, build the data center to actually provide the compute for the contract. They don't have it yet. They don't have the they don't have the fucking compute. They don't have the fucking build it. No one built it. They haven't got the compute, mate.

28:41These fucking companies are right. Anyway, sorry. sorry, I'll stop spiraling. Let me just break down these numbers. Let's look at CourtWeave first. Microsoft, they're 60 % of their revenue in 2024, and they're providing compute mostly for OpenAI. 15 % of their revenue last year was NVIDIA, and then the rest was Meta, and then OpenAI, and then Google. Lambda, half of their revenue comes from Amazon and Microsoft, and now$1.5 billion of their revenue comes from NVIDIA, which their current revenue, by the way, and that$1.5 billion over four years. So the current revenue is$250 million. Well, that would make NVIDIA the largest customer.

29:17I realize I'm just saying numbers here, but for real, with that contract, because Lambda only made$250 million in the first half of this year, and NVIDIA is spreading$1.5 billion across four years, NVIDIA is the largest customer now. Now, Nebius has got similar revenue to Lambda, but their largest customer is now... It's fucking Microsoft. It's just... They don't have real customers. They just have hyperscalers or NVIDIA themselves. And from my analysis, it appears that CoreWeave, despite expectations to make that$5.35 billion this year, has only around$500 million of non-Magnificent 7 or OpenAI revenue in 2025, with Lambda estimated to have maybe a round of$100 million in AI revenue otherwise, and Nebius only around$250 million.

30:04And that's being generous. In much simpler terms, the Magnificent 7 is the AI bubble, and the AI bubble exists to buy more GPUs because, as I'll talk about, there's no real money or growth coming out of this other than the amount that private credit is investing. And this really is quite worrying, by the way. I had a quote here for an analyst that says, it's about$50 billion a quarter for the low end for the past three quarters. So why is this bad? All right, I don't know. Let's start simple. $50 billion a quarter of data center funding is going into an industry that has less revenue than free-to-play mobile game Genshin Impact.

30:39That feels pretty bad. Who's going to use these data centers? How are they even going to make money on them? Private equity firms don't typically hold on to assets. They sell them or they take them public. That doesn't seem great to me. Anyway, if AI was truly the next big growth vehicle, neoclouds would be swimming in diverse global revenue streams. Instead, they're heavily centralized around the same few names, one of which, NVIDIA, directly benefits from their existence not as a company doing business, but as an entity that can accrue debt and spend money on GPUs. These NeoClouds are entirely dependent on a continual flow of private credit from firms like Goldman Sachs, who's backed Nebius, CoreWeave, and Lambda, JPMorgan, Lambda, Crusoe, building Abilene, Texas's OpenAI data center, and of course CoreWeave, and Blackstone, Lambda, and CoreWeave, who have in a very real sense created an entirely debt-based infrastructure to feed billions of dollars directly to NVIDIA, all in the name of an AI revolution that's yet to arrive.

31:33The fact that the rest of the NeoCloud revenue stream is effectively either a hyperscaler or OpenAI is also concerning. Hyperscalers are, at this point, the majority of data center capital expenditures, and have yet to prove any kind of success from building out this capacity. Outside, of course, Microsoft's investment in OpenAI, which has succeeded in generating revenue while burning billions of dollars of revenue on, well, I mean, it's not really any profit, is there, just burning money. It's also insane. When you say this stuff, I've got two more goddamn episodes of this. And when I read these scripts, I'm just like, how is nobody else more freaked out?

32:08Oh, well, hyperscaler revenue is also capricious. But even if it isn't, why are there no other major customers? Why across all of these companies does there not seem to be one major customer who isn't open AI? Well, the answer is quite obvious. Nobody that wants it can afford it, and those that can afford it don't need it. It's also unclear what exactly hyperscalers are doing with this compute, because it sure isn't making money. While Microsoft makes $10 billion in revenue from renting compute to OpenAI via their Microsoft Azure cloud, it does so at cost, and was charging OpenAI$1.30 per hour for each A100 AI GPU it rents, a loss of$2.2 an hour per GPU, meaning that it is likely losing money on this compute, especially as semi-analysis has the total cost per hour per GPU around$1.46 with the cost of capital and debt associated for a hyperscaler.

33:00Though it's unclear whether that's for an H100 or an A100 GPU. In any case, how do these NeoClouds pay for their debt if the hyperscalers give up, or NVIDIA doesn't send them money, or more likely, private credit begins to notice that there's no real revenue growth outside of circular compute deals with NeoCloud's largest suppliers, investors, and customers. Don't know why I said plural there, because it's just one, NVIDIA. And the answer is they don't. In fact, I have serious concerns that they can't even build the capacity necessary to fulfill these deals, but nobody seems to worry or think about them.

33:32But really, though, it appears to be taking Oracle and Crusoe around 2.5 years per gigawatt of compute capacity. How exactly are any of these NeoClouds, or indeed Oracle itself, able to expand to capture this revenue? Who knows? But I assume somebody is going to say OpenAI. Here's an insane statistic for you, by the way. OpenAI will account for, in both its revenue, projected$13 billion, and in its own compute cost,$10, somewhere in the region of 40-50 % of all AI revenues in 2025. As a reminder, OpenAI has leaked that it will burn$115 billion in the next four years, and based on my estimates, it actually needs to raise, I mean, upwards of$400 billion in the next four years, based on its$300 billion deal with Oracle and some recently announced$100 billion compute purchases for backup.

34:19And that alone is a very bad sign. Very, very bad indeed. Especially as we're three years and$500 billion or more into this hype cycle, with few signs of life outside of, well, open AI promising people money. And that's not healthy or sane or normal. And it's certainly not stable. And it's going to get bad real fast. Catch you tomorrow.

34:50Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Ossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I dot com. You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

36:11We'll be right back. Made real. Get started at GoDaddy.com with GoDaddy Aero.

36:20I'm Stephan Curry and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'sCutBourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or BevMo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemanscutbourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?

36:56Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scovel, and I'm here to tell you Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause.

37:34Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to The Brothers Ortiz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

From the publisher

In part two of this week’s four-part case against generative AI, Ed Zitron walks you through how NVIDIA funds and pumps money into unprofitable, debt-ridden “neoclouds” all to create vehicles to buy more GPUs - all to cover up the lack of demand for generative AI compute.

Original Air Date: 10.1.25

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