Radio Better Offline: Kyle Barr, Alex Cranz & Michael Fisher

22:22You do not. USB-C, HDMI, whatever. And then it just creates a desktop environment like Windows, except it's Android. It's your phone. So you don't have to find a Wi-Fi hotspot. You've already got a cellular connection. You don't have to move your files to it because your files are already on your phone. The Atrix promised us this. Indeed. 15 years ago. And the pad phone. The Atrix? What was this? It was the Verizon. Motorola Verizon. Yeah, Motorola Verizon. No, AT &T. Was it AT &T? It was. Never trust them. The Atrix 4G. Yeah. Never trust that fucking guy. Well, actually, Motorola's good now, though.

22:49They've got the Razer. The Razer Ultra. We love that. We love a wooden phone in this house. Thank you, Lenovo. It's wooden? Indeed. It's got wood on it? You've got wood. You've got Alcantara, if you want to get it really gross overnight. Mm-hmm. And then, what, fake? Wait, what do you mean gross? Other sex interiors? Yes, yeah. Alcantara is like a fabric and that was what they put on the palm rest for the surface and it can get dirty because it's fabric. I want a velour one. Just flipping out a velour razor. But like two months in after you do like a New York summer it's just going to be so disgusting on the front.

23:25No one will ever borrow it. You drop it it like just absorbs all the stuff. Yeah. But you know But then it's your phone. You've got a nice patina. No one will ever touch it because they'll be disgusted. Yeah. Enough, right? Yeah, I think that's great. And I will say it. I want Apple to do this fucking flip phone. I want them to do something different. I'm tired of it. I want my – I have the most giant phone. I occasionally go back to the smaller iPhone. I hate it. I want the big one again. Except I want an even bigger one. I want Apple to do foldables so bad. You don't need to wait for a foldable.

23:54I got just the thing for you. You ever use Clix for the iPhone? I do. I have a Clix. I have a Clix. I have a Clix. Disclosure. I am a co-founder of Clix. You co-founder of Clix. I bought one. I sent you a picture of me using it. Which I appreciate it. Thank you. That makes it big. Just use that. It makes it clicky, too. No. It's fine. The thing is, I don't have trouble typing on a phone at all. Bummer. I just want the screen. I would like my screen to be twice the size. Well, you could just carry an iPad. I do carry an iPad, and I love the iPad Pro. I really do. Do you use it for taking photos?

24:24No, I'm not my dad. Okay. No, I love my dad. And he pulls out his iPad Mini and it's just like the most like. It's like put it down. No, no, I love it. I love the fact that he's into the iPad because I got him his original iPad whenever like the second. No, it was the first iPad Mini I released. And my dad, he loved hearing this. And he loved it. He uses it all the time. And I consider like that the best sign of technology. If like. If like an older uses it. Like an older person who's just a regular person who does like a business job. And like listens to the radio and watches the news. Like what are their use cases with it?

24:56And the fact that he picks it up and uses it as a picture taker, that's the term. Picture taker, isn't it? I think it's lovely. This is the beauty of a foldable. Oh, look, it's me. He's photographing me. That's actually really cool. Yeah. And I get back to my thing that the UX situation, we're just at the limits of the current UX. I think so. And also my controversial opinion, which is the Vision Pro is amazing. When it works. It's so heavy. It is. But when I say when it works, I mean we're talking 4 % of the time. Have I told any of you what's happened with my Vision Pro? Tell us. So I got told by my good friend Matt Bamberg, who told me that Metallica was on the Vision Pro.

25:34I'm like, a big, heavy thing that's kind of lost its way and we're not really sure why we engage with it? Sounds like Metallica. So I get this thing. I put it on. It goes, you need to update. I'm like, fuck yeah. Okay, I'll update. I update shit all the time. I let it start downloading. I pick it up. I put it down. I pick it up. The UX doesn't load again. Yeah. you have to keep this thing on your fucking head while you update it yep it's like a 15 minute long update this feels like just the easiest thing in the world for them to fix and it's just it's so annoying because there are there are like several minutes at a time when i'm using the vision pro when i can make it work which is not at the moment where i'm just like damn this feels like the few it's a giant screen it like i can grab things and then like the headset moves three centimeters Yeah.

26:21And now it's out of focus. Have you used a Quest? I have, the Quest 3, and it's just like, even then, my strange skull. Yeah. Like, lots of people love measuring my skulls for different reasons, but it's just like the Quest 3 doesn't feel right, but it feels better than this. Yeah. But the Vision Pro has these moments, and I think it's just because it's less about the Vision Pro, more the idea of, yeah, an interface that we could reach out and grab and move around with our hands makes sense. It's cool as hell. And it works when it works, but it doesn't work very well, And it's just the problem is every article is either this is the most amazing thing, which it is not, or it's this completely sucks, which it does a lot of the time.

26:59Yeah. It's in a journey phase, right? I wish all the money from AI had gone into this, not because I think it would be particularly successful, but we'd get somewhere quicker. I mean, it did go into it at Meta for a couple of years. Yeah,$42 billion went into experiments doing air quotes. Yeah.

27:29We'll be right back.

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28:29And then again, before I had to record this ad, I really like them. My green over shirt in particular looks great. I use it like a jacket. It's breathable and comfortable and hangs in my body nicely. I get a lot of compliments. I liked it so much. I got it in all the different colors, along with one of their corduroy ones, which I think I pull off, and really that's the only person that matters. I also really love their linen shirts too. They're comfortable, they're breathable, and they look nice. Get a lot of compliments there too. I have a few of them. Love their rust-colored ones as well. And in general, I really like quints.

28:57The shirts fit nicely and the rest of their clothes do too. They ship quickly, they look good, they're high quality, and they partner directly with ethical factories and skip the middlemen. So you get top-tier fabrics and craftsmanship at half the price of similar brands. I'm probably going to buy more from them very, very soon. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash better for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash better. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash better. This week on a very special episode of Health Discovered, We're taking a closer look at a condition that affects hundreds of thousands of men each year, prostate cancer.

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30:24I mean, that's what Android XR is supposed to be, right? It's going to be first Samsung's Project Muhan is just going to be, you know, Apple Vision Pro, but with, yeah, so Samsung's making a Vision Pro. It's going to have very similar, like, micro-OLED displays. I don't know if it's going to go the full, like, 4K, 4K or whatever bullshit, but it'll just be, like, you know, it'll be Android's version of Apple's Vision OS. It's just going to be a little bit more AI-focused because it's all full of Gemini. Because it's Google. Yeah, because it's Google. I was using these Vichu glasses. Have you heard of these?

30:58Yes, I've used them. Are these like those X-Real ones? You just put them on, you have a USB. It doesn't try and be fancy or nothing. You just have a cable you put in your phone and you have them on your glasses. And it looks pretty big. That's the best thing about the problem. I like AR glasses because I just like secondary screens. It's like, oh, okay, you know, they're good for a plane. They're just a little bit expensive. But, yeah, they do what you need them to do. But then I put it on the plane. I'm like, oh, right. I don't want to look straight ahead. Like it was just like immediately just like, this is cool.

31:30Can I move it? Nope. This is attached to my fucking face. But there is something here, I swear to God. No, there is something there. There's so much more here than generative AI. Like with generative AI, I've not had a goddamn moment of peace in two years. But also not a goddamn moment where I've been like, okay, I kind of see it. And there were moments with the vision. There's moments with the quest where I've been like, okay, like horseshoes and hand grenades. Yeah. Steam game where you can just pick up guns and it's extremely realistic. And it just feels so good. And it's satisfying. Exactly the kind of moment that you're like, this is great, fun technology.

32:06I fucking love the future. The same thing. I remember when I got the original iPhone on singular wireless in Penn State. And I remember the moment of like, wow, I don't have to wait for my voicemail. Wow, I can just type out a tape and I can move apps. This is cool. Those moments are there with XR and VR. I'm actually like, I'm not like a fantasist about it. most of the shit sucks. Yeah. Well, I think what Google is going to say is that they've invested in AI so that the AI can go and actually fix all of the problems that the brilliant scientists and researchers haven't been able to do to actually make a pair of good looking XR glasses that you can wear on your face that aren't going to be silly.

32:43It's so funny. Well, so I spent almost the entirety of last CES looking at displays because I was going to cover other things. And then I very quickly realized the most interesting stuff on the floor was eyeglasses for AR applications. And I used the Even Reality's G1. Have you used these? One of these. These are some very normal-looking glasses. If you're a Harry Potter fan, you're really a fan of them because they kind of make you look like that. But they don't look like they have tech in them. In fact, the first ad I saw for them, I did not believe that they existed. I'm like, you guys are just hitting me with a render, and this is vaporware.

33:14It's never going to launch. And I saw them on a friend's head, and I'm like, wait, are those they? And you put them on, and they have a monochrome, WarGames-esque, like green text display. I've seen these on Instagram. Dude, they are. And they do very few things, but they do them all pretty damn well. I saw Chris Velasco, the legend over at WashPi, were talking about them. They're great. I kept wearing them for weeks after the review. And what they do, and caveat, I'm a sucker for notification dashboards. Terminal. Smartwatches. This takes your smartwatch, puts it on your face. And so if you're just interacting, you're fine, and then you look up and then you have a little dashboard.

33:50There's all my text, You have to look up. No, you can set it so that if you get a notification, it pops up right in front of you. So if I'm looking at you, I'm actually reading my messages, and that's creepy, so I keep that off. I'm the other way around, though, where I'm like, I wouldn't want this on all the time, but if I could look up just to take a look. Yeah. Because if I see a notification, I want to chew on it. Yeah. I want to take a look. What do you got for me? Absolutely. And I love this. And again, is this super useful? It's useful. Is it too expensive? I assume yes. Probably. I forgot how much it costs.

34:18They look like you have to wear a leather duster with them whenever you wear them. No, that's the thing. So this is my main complaint with all the other stuff you're talking about is like the – and I'm sorry. I always bring out X-Reel just to like beat on them. But like great technology. But when you wear it, it's like – What is X-Reel? You put on sunglasses, but you have like four inches of, I don't know, foam between them and your eyes. Like they just ride so damn high and they're just because of the – What is X-Reel though? They're like what you just described for airplane viewing. They're like wearable displays.

34:43Yeah, they've been doing it for years. But they're also working on an XR thing for Android. Are they? Yep. Okay. I hope that they use a display technology that doesn't require to sit on your forehead. We would have a working Vision Pro by now if they'd have put the$400 billion into this shit. That's the actual thing. If they wanted to invest in the future, even if it's not XRVR, if they put hundreds of billions of dollars into the next interface, and their argument would be, oh, yeah, well, AI is the next interface because you can just talk. Right. No, I can't. No, I can't at all. I have a British accent.

35:14Do you know, I have to have British Siri sometimes. Yeah. Because sometimes Siri just goes, I don't fucking know. Oh, no. A lot of my family has really strong Southern and Texas accents. It's incredible. Like, it has not, nothing has improved from when Google first issued, like, voicemail where it would transcribe it. Nothing's improved. Siri, Android, any of them, if they've got a really strong accent and they're talking like this, then, my God, it is not going to fucking work. Oh, my God, just talk it out. Yeah. You have to. People in the South and people in Baltimore just fuck. Just absolutely fuck.

35:48Give me that food. Actually, did you know that when you go to Europe, the Android dictation engine changes? No. GDPR, I assume, or something like that? I don't know why. All I know is when I'm in Europe and I'm trying to type and I'm like, no, I'll come to you, period. It says period. I have to say, no, I'll come to you, full stop. Oh, that makes more sense. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty smart. That's cool. Yeah, if you go around in England being like period, people don't look at you at the end of every sentence. It's like, oh, you seem fine. But I do think, though, that this is a very dread-infused time.

36:24It's very doomer-y. But then I see these little foldable. I see the fun device. I'm like, the tech industry does actually have other things. It's just I think we might have maxed out software. I think we may have reached the limits of what software can do based on what we have as computing devices. I think it's something else. I'm sure it's not fully at the limits, but I'm just saying as far as consumers go with using stuff, what do you think, Alex? I would say that it is more laziness of the large companies. The Apples and the Samsungs and the Googles and the Microsofts. The Lenovo's. I mean, well, the Lenovo actually, they have fun.

37:03They're actually better than us. Yeah, Lenovo's actually really good at like, we're going to experiment. And they're a Chinese company. They're always trying something. But primarily these American companies making gadgets and stuff, they don't try. All of their interest in is how can I get you to replace what you have in two years? Yeah. That's it. And instead of being like, how can I get you to replace what you have in two years by completely redefining the entire industry? They're like, now you can use magnets. It's longer. Yeah. And it's like, well, that's cool, but am I really going to upgrade my phone just for that?

37:34I might. No, I— The people in this room might. I definitely would, but you're right. But with the people outside of this room. Anybody have a case for that? It's also, I think they've tried to do everything with one device, which is great, but that's where you bump up. Like the limits of entertainment, I think we're reaching especially because watching, I'm done with people telling me to watch. I don't know how people watch like full movies on their phone. Even the biggest, most hugest phone. Well, they're young. They started watching. No, I mean older people too. Okay. I mean, I've met people and it's like on like a six inch phone.

38:06And it's like, what the fuck? this is worse than an airplane. My brother did that. He watched Sinners like on his iPad. And he was like, why does everybody like Sinners? It's not very good. And I was like, how'd you watch it? Like, you know, in the middle of the day with the lights all on on my iPad. And I'm like, well, of course you didn't like it. Hell yeah. Get it together, sir. Watching the good, the bad and the ugly on a Droid 2. You're not paying attention. That was a good phone. I liked the Droid 2. That was. And also, just to be clear, you can do experiments that suck. I did also try the BlackBerry Storm back in the day.

38:37With its like, it was a screen where you could just like do happy. It was like you could press. It felt like you were pressing in, but it felt. It didn't. It floated on a button. It felt bad. It felt like. It was bad. A slightly harder version of poking some like Greek yogurt. Yeah. Which is not the sensation I want while typing. No one wants that. It like had a clunk to it. That was the one that like Blackberry was like, this is going to save us. Yes. Absolutely. It was their big, it was so, it was like the home mobile phones. It fucking. I love them for how bad it was. Yeah. They were like, we don't need this multi-touch stuff.

39:13We got this. Yeah, we go, you want your screen to move. Yeah. You want a screen that makes you feel bad every time you touch it. And everyone else is like, we're working on that with different ways. I also think that it's nice to hear that there's some fun as well because the AI stuff, and I'm not going to make this a big complain fest about AI. You've got the rest of the episodes. But there's something joyless about large language. It's not fun. I'm not using any of it and being like, oh, how whimsical. Like, oh, you're having – they don't seem like they're having fun. We're not having fun. At least with some dorky, insane phone, you're like, okay, what are you going to fuck me up?

39:51I mean, the vibe coders. The vibe coders are having fun. No, they're not. Read the vibe coding Reddit. It's a bunch of people talking like they've been captured by North Korea. Yeah. It's straight to be like, I love doing this every day. hey, I put three months of my life and thousands of dollars into this, and I have eight paying customers. It's the best thing in the world. It's so funny, and they're like, yeah, I don't get how this happened. And someone will be like, yeah, you don't read code. You can't understand how this happened. Well, I asked it to tell me. It's like, yeah, that's the problem.

40:20But it's like there's nothing dorky or funny about it. Even the metaverse was more fun than this. It was more fun to make fun of. No, it was like the metaverse that first time you put on that stupid Windows headset and you had your big Windows playhouse and you go and you put a giant dinosaur in it. And then you ask your coworker to try on the headset and they're like, why the hell is a giant dinosaur staring at me? Like that's fun. But you can't do it. Yeah, it's hard to troll people with AI. I mean you really have to think about it. That's the thing, though. People trolled a little hard because what I also enjoyed was watching during the metaverse regular journalists be like, I'll check out this VR chat thing.

41:00And just like getting the worst people online, a bunch of people dressed as Knuckles, just doing racism constant, just like endless racism. And a few 13-year-olds. Yeah, just 13-year-olds saying the worst shit you've heard in your life. And like, hey, I'm here from a business magazine. It's like, fuck you, you piece of shit. No, it's great. Yeah, I think the journalists need to see the real internet occasionally. But you can do that with... You can just do that with the internet. You've been able to do it for decades. It's just... But the metaverse also, you saw some people try some weird shit.

41:31You saw a lot of grifters and all this crap, like whatever. But it was like, at least someone was having fun. Mark Zuckerberg was lying. But also, people didn't really full-ass the metaverse. I wish that they had put this kind of money into it. Because we would have got one really shit thing and one really funny thing. Yeah. I mean, to an extent, they did put the money in. Like, Apple spent a lot of money on Vision Pro. I don't think they did that because of the metaverse. I think that they were planning it anyway. Really? I always felt it was like, we need to play catch-up. Everyone is talking.

42:01Yeah, I can see that. Like, Apple under 10 Cook chases. But I refuse to believe it's been two, three years. What, it came out, 2024? I don't think they've only been working on it two years. Maybe they accelerated it. They've been working on it for years. Steve Jobs would have fucking killed them. Can you imagine Steve Jobs finding out that? He never would have let that be real. He would have beaten someone to death with one of those. Wasn't the idea that they were creating glasses first and then they're like, this is the step towards the glasses. And now, well, there was all that talk whether or not they're actually making the glasses.

42:28Now they're back on. Whether or not they're going to be smart glasses or AR glasses. It seems silly. Yeah, everybody was like, okay. And this is the dumbest part of the generative AI moment. is 10 years ago, everybody was like, we're going to have smart glasses, but they're going to be, you put them on and you talk to somebody because Alexa's doing it. And Siri and all of this. So we're going to do it just like this. It didn't work because we don't know how to interact audio-wise with computers and stuff. It's not just like it is in Star Trek. It's actually more complex. You have to consider multiple users and stuff.

43:04So everybody's like, okay, how else can we do this? Well, we'll do the metaverse and we'll do these AR glasses. And then they were like, wait, we can't figure out how to make these glasses small enough with battery life, with good vision. Like, we can't do all of that. And then Generative AI came out, and everybody was like, you know what we're going to do? That Alexa shit again. I love that as well, because Alexa didn't work. It still doesn't. And they were like, well, we'll make a new one that works worse. Yes. And it's, I haven't, have any of you used Alexa Plus yet? Not yet. Not only in demos.

43:35Damn, I was, I really, when I read about that, and they're like, it's worse. and you can be like, yeah, make me a recipe for chicken pasta and it will tell you it. And I just think that people need to accept that voice is not a good interface. Just in general, I don't think it needs to be perfect perfect. I think it requires so much more training of ourselves, right? But I don't want to be trained. I want to use the thingy. But you are trained. We're all trained. We're trained to use our phones. For limited use cases. Like turn the lights on. Open the garage door or whatever. But beyond that, to your point, it's required to be usable by such a wide swath of humans that it's almost impossible to do it.

44:15And we all want to do it just like Star Trek. Absolutely. I also think it has a very flat view of tasks. I think that most people think that it's going to be – well, people like Sundar Pichai or Andy Jassy think that people go into their house and go, and I will do this, and I will do this. Not me. I'm like, what about that YouTube? What about that Chrome thing? I should read this article. Now, wait. Fuck. I'm meant to send an email. Send an email. Okay, fuck. No, I haven't got the information for the email. shit, why is it so fucking hot in here? I need to make it cold in here. Fuck, it's cold.

44:42I want to put this YouTube back on. Yeah, you can't multitask at all. You also just can't do any context switching. You cannot do it. And I will do something which I think would be tantamount to suicide on any other day. I will defend an LLM on your podcast. Okay, go on. Go on, go. I feel like it's probably a good mechanic for training these things to do exactly that because I have found the one enjoyable bit of using LLMs I have found is that I'll talk to Gemini Live a lot because I'm very used to, as we all are, doing a Google Voice dictated search for what I'm looking for. But I love that Gemini lets me talk to it like my brain actually works.

45:16I'm like, thinking about this thing, it's like a wrench, but it's not. It's like a ratcheting socket. That's probably not ratcheting. Anyway, it's a vacuum cleaner adjustment. You know what I mean? And then she'll be like, oh yeah, totally got it. Here's what it is. And then her return, to be fair, will be 20 % wrong. But at least she's gotten me where I needed it. This is the use case of LLMs, which is they are better at inferring meaning from what we say. And they have found a way to do that, which is just better search, which gets back to the thing that you were saying, Alex, about how these companies are lazy.

45:45Because why didn't Google have this 10 years ago? How are there no other ways to do this? And why is Google still not really like this in the search engine part? You have to go into Gemini. And even when you can't type in to Google search that kind of thing. When you try and... I will type in like, cite the information, a term, and it will be like, I don't fucking know, man, because I didn't write dot com. Yeah. Because it's just, I don't know what possibly could site colon the information mean. Oh, you had a.com. It's a website. My bad. Like, I'm only worth, we're only a market cap of$4 trillion.

46:18Fuck you. Well, they would say you should be using Chrome to do it. I wasn't Chrome. No! I wasn't Chrome. I'm still in Chrome a little bit because certain websites don't work because we live in the future. I tried to switch to Kagi's mobile browser. Worst experience. I switch to Firefox and I hate it. Sometimes some things just work better. I live in Chrome. Especially since Pocket died. Now I have to use Chrome for all my mobile bookmarks and it has all my passwords. Oh, man. That's actually another thing. It just really grinds my gears. Bookmarks are the same still. I don't use bookmarks because I'm chaotic.

46:56Every time I save something, I forget where I saved it. I just assume I'll remember everything. No, I genuinely do. Like I remember. No, same, same. Yeah, and it works out. It's bad. I'm like, oh, my God. He's horrified by us. I remember everything, but at exactly the wrong time. No, I remember everything. Oh, yeah, I should look that up. As long as I have the weirdest cues, like several words. If you read my notes from my newsletter, they're insane. It's like three broken sentences with like a question mark and a typo. I'm like, that's 16 ,000 words, babe. Yeah. Well, hold up. I didn't have this on my list, but there's a gadget for that.

47:31What is it? The Plowed or Plod. Plowed. AI recorder things. Oh. Right? What is this? Those didn't work, I thought. They work pretty well. In fact, you could say they work too well. They make a little credit card-sized thing. It's very thin. It's very impressive. It's metal. It's kind of cool. They have a necklace, too. Now, this is the note pen. This is the thing that works too well. They had a bug. You want to know what the bug was? What was it? That fucker would record when you didn't ask it to. I have four hours of me snoring at CES on the note pen. And I was like, hey, guys, you have to fix this because it's the one thing it can't do.

48:03And they're like, ah, yes, we're replacing those affected units. I'm so sorry though now that is an impossible to buy device that's what I said in the review anyone who knows that happened to you I wouldn't be able to buy it nope I don't trust it you probably have because we all have phones and phones have definitely done that too I've more than once had my phone just be like I'm sorry I didn't catch that and I was like I was on the fucking toilet I didn't need you to catch that yeah I like my HomePods but they do occasionally hear me and just go like I don't know what that means It's like, I was screaming to myself, thank you.

48:37I was just watching TV. I was just mad. I was just saying some of the words that I say inside when I'm upset. Even the PS5, the PlayStation 5 has that ability. You don't know it because nobody enables it, but it actually works. You can talk into the controller and control the PS5 that way. And I turned it on, and I just keep forgetting to take it off. And now I'm just talking with my brother, and then the PS5 is like, are you sure? And I'm like, what do you mean? No, PlayStation 5. That's why I'm talking.

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51:39I don't know. I just want them to do more fun things. I'm so glad. The fact that you, Michael, have this flip phone tablet, I keep looking at this being like, please. But there's the trifold now, right? We love the trifold, yes. China is actually doing a lot of these Chinese companies are doing really interesting stuff, right? They're innovating. Absolutely. Like Huawei is doing it. Lenovo is doing it. Apple is like, we'll get there in five years after everyone else has done it. Right. We can test it there and make sure we can do it better. One thing I will say is you can't do contiguous touch between the windows.

52:13So yeah, when you're running two apps side by side, well, Android demands you select your focus. Yeah, so you can't be doing them both at once. And that's the weird thing. Like Apple used to – like they had the Apple Hi-Fi. They used to take fun risks. And then Steve Jobs would kill the family and everyone involved. Well, and they failed at a risk. The air dock? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The charging plate? Air power. Air power. So for the listeners, there was this thing that now exists in 19 different forms where they were going to do this block where you could put your AirPods, your Apple Watch, and your phone.

52:45And they would talk about it every few months and they'd be like, it's just around the corner. They announced it. They're like shooting records. It was like a big thing. They announced that Mark Gurman would just put out. It's like, no, that's not going to happen. And they just canceled it one day. And then Anker and several hundred other companies. Well, it was different. You go ahead, Alex. What was different than this? So what Apple was trying to do was take those coils, the charging coils, and stack them on each other so it was one real small spot. So you could throw it on anywhere on the pad and it would charge.

53:16That is cool. Whereas everybody else is like, no, you have to have your little spots. And I love, I've got one, and it's great. I use it all the time. But air power would have been slightly cooler, except for it was like melting things, I think. They couldn't figure it out one way or the other. Oh, wow. Customers are so demanding. It's like, oh, no, I melted a hole in my floor. But now we have, like MagSafe obviated the need for it, right? Because the magnets are better for, like, it's like, it doesn't matter that you need to, like, discreetly place it. Because the magnets are going to put it there anyway, and that's better for a bunch of reasons.

53:44I will say there is an Anker thing that I have at home that I don't replace out of spite, which is it's one of the things where the Apple Watch component flips up so that the circle, except that thing, there are so many times I put it on, it just does not stick for some reason. And every time it happens, you're like, fuck, piece of shit. Do I replace it? Fuck no. No. You just don't have your support. I paid my$50, and I will get every dollar's worth. Ten years later, I will replace it when I throw it from the window. I mean, that's like all my GAN chargers. GAN is cool. We love GAN. We love GAN.

54:19GAN is cool. We love GAN. No, we really do. I genuinely like it. I mean, that's how you know it's a bunch of nerds who love gadgets, because we're all like, yeah, GAN. And if you've not heard of GAN, I've mentioned it before. It's the thing where they basically found a way to make plugs smaller and batteries smaller. I actually have these amazing anchor things. There's just all this cool shit that came out of it. It's so great. Ugreen makes really good stuff, too. Mm-hmm. Ugreen? Yeah, Ugreen. I thought they were just a slot brand. No, they're real people. I have one in my bag right now. And they're actually good because I've been looking for Anchor alternatives just because I like.

54:51Does it keep melting? Yeah. No, I like Anchor melting things. Yeah, they got a lot of recalls recently. Things have gotten a little more expensive. Ukraine and there's a few others. I like Anchor. They committed the ultimate sin long ago for me. The same thing. Allbirds did the same thing. Everything company does that achieves scale is they go from building something interesting looking in a fun color with a weird shape to like, oh, no. 80 % of people buy the boring black rectangle. So now that's all we're going to share. Anchor's variety is black or white. There you go. I somewhat disagree. Oh, come on.

55:22Just because of the Nebula X one which you talked about. It's this insane$3 ,000 projector. Oh, yeah. You can put it in a weird angle and it will still keystone in. They do claim it's like, oh, you hit a button and it just works. Not for me. I am the person you should bring every new thing to before you say that because it will break every time. Has there ever been a projector that just works? But it does. It gets about as close as you can. It sets up in like a minute. You can keystone it at the weird angles. It's fucking cool. And it looks weird. And it's like really nice. And like the wireless speakers just work.

55:51How much is it? It's$3 ,000 fucking dollars. It's so expensive. Good news. If you Google it, you will get your first three results are cheaper alternatives that are being paid to be put there. Nice. When I bought my GPD for Wim 4, I ended up getting scammed by a Google ad. No way. I had some, and it was just, I was buying it. I was excited to get it. And I saw, and I am so resilient to these things. So I was like mad at myself. Yeah. I emailed fucking GPD. I emailed Google. I was fucking, I was like, listen to me. Fuck, no, I didn't. And to be fair, GPD got back to me and like, holy shit, like, we're going to contact Google.

56:25Google did not. GPD was actually very concerned. Yeah, because that's like their whole brand. And it was just like a Chinese guy's G-Vail as well. Like he had a perfectly good GPD website. Did he just mail you a box? No, I canceled the payment. Put it on a credit card because these things happen. I haven't for a long time. I was quite embarrassed. But no, I like Anker and they occasionally will do something like the Nebula X1. However, yeah, they are mostly just blocks. They have them in different colors now. I mean, the batteries, I have one that's like mint green. Yeah, I go lovely. I go like a pink one in my pocket.

57:01How about that? I mean, Anker's like, you know, charging brand. It's just kind of stayed. But like all the other shit they're doing with all their other sub-brands, because now they have like 12, you know, they have that UV printer. That's really cool. Wait, what is that? What is this? So UV printers, they basically use a UV light on UV activated ink to print stuff. So sort of like thermal printers? Kind of, but there's less heat involved since it's just light. Yeah. So you can technically print on almost anything, and it can print in 3D, quote-unquote. So if you're looking at an oil painting, it has those raised edges where the oil thickens.

57:39It can technically do that. Cool. Okay, that's cool. It's very cool. I like that. And I got to use it. I printed out a meme on a little magnet, and it looks really nice. I can't wait to actually try it out more. How much is this thing? It's probably around like$1 ,300. No, it was more than that. But like a good 3D printer is that much. Is this like one of those printers that I saw a number of years ago that is kind of like a mouse and you like run it over the surface you're printing on? No, this is a big unit. But it's like other UV printers are like gigantic. And this is like a tabletop one, which is why it was like big in the maker space for like a hot minute.

58:19I don't know where it is right now. And I've been trying to get a review unit in. And Anchor, if you're listening, please. So I actually do have a question for all three of you. I keep seeing things on Kickstarter, but I haven't touched Kickstarter in years because of all the shit. Is it trustworthy still? Is it still dodgy? It depends on who you're going. Like some companies, big companies, will use Kickstarter to validate the market. Like Unihertz is famous for this. If you want an interesting phone, Unihertz is there for you. They make all the BlackBerry revivals, all the ones with weird QWERTY.

58:46They're huge. They have a screen on the back for no reason. Hell yeah. Yeah, you'd love it. Yeah, try it. Every launch they do is on Kickstarter, and I think they also use it as a PR thing because they know they're going to exceed their goal in the first day. But it isn't 2013 anymore. I run a PR firm. I know that doesn't work anymore. Yeah. But, yeah, you'll see that with, like, it's mainly the big brands. The smaller brands I would still be a little, like. They're still dodgy. Leary of, yeah. Yeah, because you just run into this. I mean, it's just the practical nature of building gadgets. It's hard.

59:15Hardware is really difficult. Yeah. Can confirm, yeah. And it's only going to get more difficult over the next, because of the tariffs and stuff, I suspect. Especially Americans are going to have, you know, until we get manufacturing in the United States again, it's going to be a challenge. Yeah, I look forward to that happening one day. Any day. There is one that I actually invested in, which is technically a gadget. Now, I was going to save this to the very end because no one could possibly care about this if they didn't follow the moon landing program in the 60s. Tell me more. Okay. This is a watch.

59:46It is called the DSKY Moon Watch, DSKY. And it is not a smart watch. It is not an LCD and all this stuff. What they took, there's an Apollo guidance computer from the moon capsule, and they shrunk it down to the size of a watch. Oh, my God. Oh, my hell yes. And it is not just an aesthetic reproduction. It is literally the same computer. That's cool as hell. So you can program it with, like, old 60s noun verb, you know, combinations. And what I love, my favorite thing about it is, you know, in the 60s, you didn't have LEDs. Well, we have to have LEDs in the watch. to do stuff, they came up with color filters to make the LED match the incandescent bulbs of the 60s.

1:00:22Like, it's pretty. It looks like an oscilloscope kind of like. I don't need this, but I'm going to get it. That's what I said. The minute I saw, I think. Holy crap, it's expensive. How much is that? 890 bucks or something like that. On their website, it's 659 pounds for the Americans. Yes. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Anyway, I'll let you know if I get it because I have backed it. But what does it do? It tells you the time. It looks cool. Yeah, that's fine. It also is the guidance computer, so you can program it. It is limited by your imagination and your coding ability if you know 1969-era code.

1:00:55Of course. Yeah. Which I do. But it's all open source, so you can actually do whatever you want with it, which is really fun. It also has GPS for some reason. I don't know. I don't know what else. Fuck it. While we're there, it's, yeah, I'm so glad. I wasn't sure coming into this whether we'd have more doodads. It seems like they're still healthy, but they're just not in America. No, you can get stuff here. No, sorry. You can get it here, but it's not American companies that seem to be driving this. Like Anka's Chinese? Yeah. Well, I've got a couple, actually. Oh, please, please. I'd genuinely like to know.

1:01:30Pebble? Pebble. Go. Okay, Pebble is back. Why is Pebble back? Because we want it. People are so tired of their regular watches. Yeah. No, it's just they're doing— Never should have died. Never should have died. they're doing e-ink watches again. They start shipping this month. I definitely ordered both. What do they do? How much do they cost? You know, they're just watches. Well, they're smart watches. Yeah, they're smart watches. They've got heart rate monitors in them. They do notifications. Is it Bluetooth or ANT? Bluetooth. And it's just a watch. And you can, you know, they have a very robust user community.

1:02:09That's the killer. And what, like apps and such? Yeah, right. So that was the thing. I mean, Pebble was the first one doing apps on a watch, and they did it well. And people liked it, and then they sold, right? They sold to Fitbit, who were then bought by Google immediately. Right. And then died. It killed it, and the guy got it back, got the rights to Pebble back. That's kind of sick. And he's just out there making cool-as-hell watches. Yes. And I think the user community is the thing. Because all these, I love a smartwatch, but the ones from Google and Apple are kind of soulless of necessity because they're corporate products and they're mass market.

1:02:40They're meant for the wider consumer. Exactly. Whereas the Pebble is like, wow, who made this weird ostrich watch face that's like, oh, some guy in Denmark. Oh, that's cool. I mean, the Pebble watch, my best friend, she goes to Orange Theory. She drinks her Starbucks. I love her. But she does not give a shit about smartwatches, and she's not going to care about the Pebble. So if I told her about it, she'd say, what? Yeah. Whereas an Apple watch, she cares about it. Yeah. And it's just a perfect gadget, and I'm excited. How much was it again? I don't know. It was like$200 something. Yeah,$200. It's not bad.

1:03:11Yeah. And he's only making small batches, so it could be cheaper, but he's only doing$10 ,000 or something like that. I was like, don't ask me how much I spent on these watches. Yeah, right. That's credit cards. I spent a lot. That's future Alex's problem. Exactly. I already paid for it all, so it's not. It's past Alex's problem. Yeah. I just get free stuff now. Yeah. That's how I think of it. Exactly. That's how it works. Yeah. Boy, any other American? Yes, American company. The Light Phone. The Light Company. I didn't get a chance to watch your video. What a trash friend you are. Okay. Well, I watched it.

1:03:46There's only one person I have Telegram for, and that's you. You don't even use that anymore. Don't lie to the listeners. And I don't use it. That's why I miss your messages. But anywho, so wait. So this Light Phone, was it good or bad? The Light Phone 3 was a very 7 out of 10 experience. Because it was basically half unfinished when I was covering it. And what does it do exactly? Very little. It lets you do phone calls, text messages, and then a handful of apps that are meant to keep you as disconnected as possible. You have maps. You will never have email. You will never have social media. You will not have a web browser.

1:04:22But, like, things to get you from point A to point B except right now, no payments, no Lyft, no Uber, none of that stuff. So it made life very difficult. I tried it for two weeks. I found I had to carry an iPad mini along with me, which the Light Phone does generate a hotspot so you can use. That's cool. Like, you know, if you want to pop open a laptop, I really enjoyed experimenting with that lifestyle again of reverting to the late 90s when we had to decide to be online and then decide to be offline. Well, I decided to be online all the time as a kid. Like, it's not really... I think it's worked out well for all of us.

1:04:56But this thing, is it like a black and white screen? So that is, in my opinion, it's shining achievement. Like, this is a remarkable piece of hardware. I love picking it up. It is like if you blew up an Apple Watch to buy 4X the size and made it out of black metal and glass and put a knob on the side to control your brightness. And the screen is black and white, but it has this diffusion filter on it. It does have a camera with a nice chunky dual stage shutter button. It's an okay camera, though. Actually, better than I expected, to be honest. But it's black and white. I'm sorry. The display is OLED.

1:05:31So it is a black and white interface. And when you fire the camera, it activates the color OLED. This thing is so cool. but also it's like the opposite of what I want. Is it? I'm abnormal. I love being connected always. I am like a problem. Try it. Try it. The second weekend I was like, I get it. I get people who talk about presence and intentionality. I hadn't gotten that before. But I also have the steel wool of the Buddha. If I need to focus on people, I can just not look at my phone. What's it like to have restraint? I don't know. I'm familiar with that. I think this is the thing we see though from American gadgets.

1:06:07A lot of the American gadgets are about disconnecting. They're about taking a step back. And as we all look at our phones. I was checking the time. I was checking off the minimal phone. You know, it's about how do we disconnect from Google? How do we disconnect from our corporate overlords? How do we disconnect from social media? Those are the things driving a lot of American ingenuity and gadgets, which is like cool, but culturally like oof. Where are we as a culture if that's the driving point? I also understand, like, that is cool, but it's also sad. Yeah. Because it's, I get the sense that other countries when they look at technology, they see like, oh, like regular people are like, oh, what could it do for me next?

1:06:47And everyone's like, is there a fucking way that I could stop using it? Versus, like, Kate Nottopoulos from BI, Business Insider, wrote a few years ago, I think, this thing was like, I love my phone. Stop trying to get me off my phone. Make my phone better. And I kind of subscribe to that. And I know I'm a freak for liking the phone and being online all the time. But nevertheless, it's like this sense of, I want to get away from big tech. I want to get away from my phone. I want to do all this. It's very sad. And also, they're clearly building towards it by making, oh, we'll just control the shit for you.

1:07:16You have no control. You have no industry over this. So there's a flip side to this, and then I'm going to stop talking about phones. There's another philosophical approach done by a company called the Minimal Company, the Minimal Phone. Now, they are much smaller than light. They also have some problems fulfilling orders. I think they're customer service, whatever. But their phone is a good idea because the phone does the opposite of the light phone. It gives you all the apps you want, but the display is e-ink, so you don't want to use any of them. But you can if you need to, like Uber, which I needed a billion times on the light phone.

1:07:47It didn't have it. I was really pissed off. That was really, really cool. The minimal phone idea is a very cool one. And I'm a nerd for this, but they put a QWERTY keyboard on there, which I also like. Yeah, yeah. That's just cool. TCL is making a phone. Well, they made a phone last year. That's their NXPT paper phone that you can't get in the U.S. Yeah. And you can like swap it between a fake like e-paper screen and to a regular screen. Yeah, it's not actually e-paper. I know. But it looks, it has like a kind of like, you know, sheen to it that makes it look less screen-y. Or you can just go and spend$10 on a matte glass for your phone.

1:08:25That's what I did because I looked at that stuff and I was like, oh, this is cool. I'll just put matte glass on my phone and I get the exact same experience. I should have would stop talking about phones, but you just made me think of another one. This is my podcast. Talk about the phone. I don't care. Fairphone 6. What is this? I have not paid attention to Fairphone almost at all because it's a bit about repairability, which is important, but I don't really care about it. So, okay. Fairphone 6 has a big neon green switch on the side, and when you flip it down, it turns from a regular Android phone into a dumb phone.

1:08:56Yeah. And I like that physical trigger because, yeah, you can do it with a custom launcher. Yeah, you can do it through umpteen software options. But having a switch seems to suggest more intentionality is required of you. And switching out of it feels like more friction, a little more friction. Yeah, exactly. It's a little more friction, but it's also less friction in the setup, right? Yeah, true. Yeah, because if I – you know, you can do that with an iPhone. You are going to spend a very long time dicking around with your iPhone to get it to that point. I think a lot of these problems come down to the fact that just notifications have become an invasion of our privacy.

1:09:28That when you look at your phone, it will be like, hey, it's Etsy again. Yeah, you bought one thing seven years ago. You didn't delete this app. Do you want to look at flowers? And you're just like, leave me the fuck alone. And Apple's just like, we don't give a fuck. New York Times used to do breaking news for everything. Just like every damn thing. They'd be like, you know, Beyonce is going to be in New York. Great. Why is that breaking news? You can't fix this as well with the phone. It's the companies. They've made it worse, and they make it worse every day. And they're like, well, we'll give you control.

1:10:00You can fix it, but you have to do way too much work to do it. To your point, you have to do way too much tweaking. You can't tweak the notifications. Well, if you have an Android phone, you can. Yeah, and that's the thing where, like. Put iMessage on a fucking Android. You want to be able to go to your phone and just say, fix it. And Google keeps promising that, and have they delivered? Someday. I mean, speaking of the Fairphone, like, there's, Framework is making really cool laptops. I was just thinking, yeah. I really, really like Framework. And, like, I don't want. Tell the audience about it.

1:10:28So, Framework's laptop where all you kind of have to do is, like, you get a bunch of the parts and you slot in the SSD, you slot in the RAM, and you kind of put the screen bezels on, and then you put the keyboard on, you screw everything in. It's like, oh, it's a laptop now. Cool. You built it. I mean, it's fun because the company makes it really easy to do. It's like it. Yeah, it's Legos. You make yourself feel smart, even though they literally put everything out there for you and you just did it. But it also means you can repair it, yada, yada, yada. And you can upgrade it. Yeah, you can upgrade it.

1:10:58I like the feeling of ownership, because half the problem with ownership is that I don't feel like I actually own the thing. I bought the thing, and they're managing my life for me. They're putting all the software on it that I don't want. They're putting this program on it. They change how you use it with UX updates. Yeah, exactly. So I want to own the thing by controlling what goes into it. And I feel like I want more products that have that ability to just like I can just control the hardware at least, if not the software. Like if I could control both, I'd be in a happy place. I'm more nerdy.

1:11:31But imagine if like every laptop had that ability to just like take off the back and like just swap things around. Well, you were seeing that in gaming laptops for a long time before the framework came along, right? And quite a few of them you can still swap the RAM, right? Yes. Some of them, although some of them are more soldered on, like some of the smaller 14 inches are still. Which kind of makes sense. One of the tricks here is just for laptops, order the business laptops because they usually do have much more upgradability because the big companies are like, no, we're not going to pay you that much for RAM.

1:12:01We will replace the RAM ourself or you will die and never get our business again. And so they fix it for them. Like that's why you see that from Dell and Lenovo and the others. On the build your own stuff, Kyle, do you follow the – or does anybody follow the cyberdeck building community? Oh, yeah. What is – I have a blast. If you want to have a gadget binge, I would say just Google cyberdeck builds on YouTube. It's basically people are trying to like relive the Neuromancer book. And they're just building cyberdecks from the Neuromancer. What is a cyberdeck? Oh, my God. All right. I was like, you don't know William Gibson?

1:12:35I'm familiar. Yeah, Neuromancer, kind of like that whole cyberpunk era aesthetic. The idea of a cyberdeck is like you literally plug into the internet. You have this deck and you sit down in a chair and you plug yourself in and you're literally a body. And the whole idea of a metaverse kind of stems from this, except it's a lot more grungy and a lot more punk. Right. The deck itself is like part of it is like it's personalized to you, right? You build it yourself. So it takes the form in modern day with what we can do of little laptops, kind of like the GPD stuff, right? Netbooks. Except you build it yourself.

1:13:15Yeah, netbooks. I loved netbooks. So cool. I miss netbooks. So what is the functionality of a Cyberdeck? What's it meant? In modern day, it's just basically a little laptop. It's just to be cool. But the idea is that you're doing it yourself and it's your own and you're making it like, I mean, I don't know. Are they using Raspberry Pis and stuff like that? Yeah, often they'll be built on a Raspberry Pi or something like that. But if you want functionality, the MeshTastic is another good thing to look at. What is MeshTastic? That is like these little pocket terminals that are being built around.

1:13:48I had to look it up. An ESP32 system on a chip, which enables a lot of cool stuff. And the MeshTastic network is like node to node. You're not on the Internet necessarily. Each phone or each terminal is a node. So, Jack Dorsey just dropped an app for this. Oh, God. BitChat. He's dropped several apps. He's dropped a lot of things. No, I'm trying to remember. That's an app for the iPhone. And, like, if we all had BitChat, we could text each other without connecting to the Internet. Like, it's a direct peer-to-peer network. Oh, I like that. And the MeshTastic, like, there's a lot of handheld hardware.

1:14:20They all look like BlackBerrys. They're all really cool. They're little mini Cyberdex. And it's just to utilize that network. And, again, you can build your own a lot of the time if you're more skilled than I am. So I'm going to wrap it here and I want to end with a message that everyone should go and support Steve Burke over at Gamers Nexus, who Bloomberg has been fucking him up by doing bullshit YouTube DMCA. He's coming on the show next week. This is a ridiculous situation. Bloomberg should be fucking ashamed of themselves, the legal department and everyone involved. Other journalists, including at Bloomberg, should see this as an offense against journalism and not giving him support is tantamount to not having solidarity with your peers.

1:14:57Steve is doing some of the best work out there. And I realize that's kind of a grim thing. But one of the reasons I love all three of you is you really, in the same way as Steve, get into this stuff and actually know it and love it and are excited about it. And I think that that is a dying art within journalism, especially within tech. And I hope everyone's enjoyed this episode because I certainly fucking have. It's so much fun. It's nice to talk about stuff. And, like, sure, there's bad things going on and it can be kind of grim out there. But there's still people making dorky little innovations out there.

1:15:23and it's worth remembering that the tech industry is not all bad, which does not mean that AI doesn't fucking suck. Bing bong. Michael, where can people find you? They can find me on YouTube at TheMrMobile, T-H-E-M-R-M-O-B-I-L-E, or on Threads at Captain2Phones, at Captain the number two phones. Miss Kranz. Most places, Alex H. Kranz, Blue Sky, Threads, all those places. And Kyle? You can go to Gizmodo.com and just look at the review section because it's me and, like, two other guys. Hell yeah. You can find me, of course, at betteroffline.com and on the podcast you're listening to, please subscribe to my newsletter and hit the premium as well.

1:15:58We will have some really fun episodes coming up. We've got, of course, the interview with Steve Berg from Games Nexus next week. I will work out a monologue later today. I am really loving doing this show. Things are about to get spicy. I have the spiciness in the air. So looking forward to the next two episodes as things begin to collapse, because that's where we're going. Peace out, everyone.

1:16:25Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Ossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I dot com. You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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1:19:45This is an iHeart Podcast.