The Academics That Think ChatGPT Is BS

29:25That might be another reason to call it bullshit. We go, look, if we have to treat it as if it's doing something like what we do, it's not hallucinating, it's not lying, it's not confabulating, it's bullshitting. If we have to treat it as if it's behaving in some kind of human-like way, here's the appropriate human-like behavior to describe it. I also think the language in this case, and one of the reasons they probably really like the large language model concept, is language gives life to things. When we describe the processes through which we interact with the world and interact with living beings, even cats, dogs, even.

29:55We anthropomorphize living things, but also when we communicate with something, language is life. And so it probably works out really fucking well for them. Sam Altman was saying a couple of weeks back, maybe a month or two, he was saying, oh yeah, AI is not a creature. It was something he said. And it was just so obvious what he wanted people to do was say, but what if it was? Or are people saying this is a creature? And it almost feels like just part of the con. Yeah. yeah yeah it fully is i hadn't thought about that as a reason for them to go for large language models as a way of kind of i don't know being the gateway into more investment with fake consciousness yeah yeah but i had thought about like how this might have been caused by just like deep misunderstandings of the turing test right go ahead no i want to hear this one yeah yeah so So the Turing test, I think this is closer to what Turing was thinking, but the Turing test is a way of getting evidence that something is conscious, right?

30:58So, you know, I'm not in your head, so I can't feel your feelings or think your thoughts directly, right? I have to judge whether you're conscious based on how you interact with me. And the way I do it is by listening to what you say, right, and talking to you. And Turing sort of was asked, you know, how would you know if a computer was conscious? So, you know, we think that our brains are doing something similar to what computers do. That's a reason to think that maybe computers eventually could have thoughts like ours. Right. And all of us think that. I think it's possible. I think it's possible.

31:36Great. Yeah. I didn't know if they thought it was possible. Because not everybody thinks it's possible. It's possible. I just don't know how. Yeah, exactly. Right. So Turing was kind of, you know, thinking like, how would we know? And one way we would know the obvious way is to do the same thing you do to humans, talk to it and see how it responds. And that's actually pretty good evidence if you don't have the ability to look deeper. But it's not constitutive of being conscious. It's not what makes something conscious or determines whether they're conscious or in any way like grounds their consciousness.

32:12right? Their ability to talk to you is just evidence. It's just one signal you can get. And that's the way to think of the Turing test. So as a result of people thinking in a kind of behaviorist way, thinking, ah, passing the Turing test is just all it is to be a thinking thing. There have been, at least since the 90s, attempts to design chatbots that can beat the Turing test, right? And popularizations of these attempts and run-throughs of the Turing test that talk as if, oh, if a computer finally beats the Turing test, I should say what the Turing test is, right? The way Turing suggests that the test works is you have a computer and a person both chatting in some way with a judge, and the judge is also a person.

32:55And if the judge can't tell which of the people he's chatting with is a human, then the computer's won the Turing test because it's unfulfable from a human, right? So people have taken this, and it's been popularized as a way of determining sort of full stop whether something's conscious. But it's just a piece of evidence, and we have a lot more evidence. Like, we know a lot more than Turing did about how the internal functioning of a mind works, functionally what it's doing, how representation works, how experience and belief works, how they are connected to action, and how they're connected to speech and thought.

33:30And once you know all that stuff, you have a lot of other avenues to get more evidence about whether the thing is conscious. And whether it passes the Turing test is just like a drop in the bucket compared to these, especially if you know how it's internal functioning. The other notorious problem with the Turing test, and I think, to be fair, Turing did mention this, if not in the original, then kind of later on. One problem with the Turing test is that it's like the Voigt-Kampf in Do Androids Do You Have Electric Sheep, right? Plenty of humans would fail the Turing test. Yeah, it is a piece of evidence, but it was never, as Mike says, it wasn't supposed to be constitutive.

34:07It wasn't like, if you can do this thing, you're conscious, kind of full stop. It was supposed to be, here is the thing that might indicate that being you're talking to is conscious. Happily, as Mike says, we've got loads and loads of other evidence. So these guys have made a machine that's just designed to do one thing, and that's pass the Turing test. I can give you one more annoying example. are you familiar with francois chalet the abstraction reasoning corpus so this is going to make you laugh so he's a google engineer and he created this thing called the arc the abstraction reasoning corpus to test whether a machine was intelligent and someone created a model that could beat it and then he immediately went okay you can't just train the model on the answers to the test this is why people well i say people a fairly small subset of of weird nerds but this is why a small subset of weird nerds have been for the last 20 years emphasizing artificial general intelligence right what we'll call it when something really is a thinking being is when it's not specialized to do one and only one task but rather when it's capable of applying reasoning to multiple kinds of different and disanalogous cases on the one hand it does seem a little bit like the guy flipping the table and going oh for fuck's sake now you've won I'm changing the rules but on the other I think he's got a point right If you're training a thing to do very specific, like activate certain shibboleths, then unless you're some kind of mad, hard behaviorist, then yeah, that doesn't demonstrate intelligence.

35:33It is one thing that might indicate intelligence. It's the same problem with ChatGPT. It's built to resemble intelligence and resemble consciousness and resemble these things, but it isn't. It's almost like it's meaningless on a very high-end philosophical level. I find the whole generative AI thing deeply nihilistic. I do. I mean, one thing that connects to this is how bad it is at reasoning. And this is kind of good for us, especially in philosophy, because our students, when they use it to write papers, the papers have to have arguments. And ChatGPT is very bad at doing reasoning if it has to be, you know, sort of an extended argument or a proof or something like that.

36:14It's very bad at it. I think also that if there's one thing kind of we learned from chat GPT, it's that this is not the way to get to artificial general intelligence. I was going to ask, do you think that this is getting to that? No, partially because it's so subject specific, right? It's one, it's trained to do one task and it takes quite a lot of training to get it to do that task well. It's bad at many of the other tasks that we think are connected with intelligence. It's bad at logical and mathematical reasoning. I understand that OpenAI is trying to fix that. Sometimes it sounds like they want to fix it by just connecting it to a database or a program that can do that for it.

36:58But either way, what you have with these kind of big Bayes Nets models is something that is really good at whatever you train it to do, but not going to be good at anything else. You know, it's got a lot of data on one thing. it finds patterns in that, it finds regularities in that, it represents those. The more data you feed it, the better it'll be at that. But it's not going to have this kind of general ability. And it's not going to grow it out of learning how to speak English. Have you heard the Terry Pratchett quote about, it's quite early on, he's talking about HEX, the kind of steampunk computer they make at Unseen University.

37:36And it just has this offhand line, a computer program is exactly like a philosophy professor, unless you ask it the question in exactly the right way it will delight in giving you a perfectly accurate completely unhelpful answer right so if you abstract the justified shot of philosophy lectures there basically what intelligent things do is go you can't have meant that you must have meant this right chat gpt goes uh i will take a question as read i mean of course it doesn't have an i there is nothing like i've just answered formalized it again but it's the same thing And it's trained to do incredibly specific things, and you get the same problem as any program like Garbage In, Garbage Out.

38:37a fast funding solution? Amerifactors provides fast capital. Call today for a free no obligation quote at 800-884-FUND. Startups, rapid growth stage or struggling, even with less than perfect credit, including bankruptcies. In business for over 34 years, thousands of satisfied clients have transformed their cash flow with Amerifactors. Call Amerifactors today at 800-884-FUND. That's 800-884-3863 or visit amerifactors.com. This is Jacob Goldstein from What's Your Problem? Business software is expensive, and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate.

39:18Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting, all linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O-D-O-O dot com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So have you found a lot of students using ChatGPT? Because this is a hard problem to quantify. Is it all the time? I mean, it's a lot. I wouldn't say all the time.

40:01Jay, you thought there were more seasoned needs this semester. yeah so i think there are quite a few and sometimes it is difficult for us to prove and if we can't prove it then at our university then well shucks they kind of get away with it we can interview them but unless we're like unless we have the proof that you could take before like a court then we are we're not able to really nail them for it which is a bit of a shame So it's suspicion. Yes. We suspect that a lot of them are very, I'm 100 % on some of them. I just know. What are the clues? I want to hear from all of you on this one. Like, what are the signs?

40:39It's the uncanny valley. Like, I will not shut up about this. You know that, like you, of course, I imagine a lot of you kind of, this really will be as well, but the uncanny valley thing in respect of humans is that there's a kind of a point up to which humans seem to trust artificial things more the more they look like a human. So like, we'll trust a robot if it's kind of bipedal or if it looks like a dog. But after a point, we really rapidly start to trust it. So like if it basically, when it starts looking like data, some deep buried lizard brain goes, danger, danger, this thing's trying to fuck with you somehow.

41:13And chat GPT writes exactly like that. It writes almost, but not entirely like a thing that is trying to convince you that it's human. I mean, the dead giveaway for me is that it never makes any spelling mistakes, but it can format a paragraph to save its life. Normally, you would expect someone who didn't know how to kind of order their sentences to misspell the occasional word. ChatGPT spells everything correctly and doesn't know what, like, subject-object agreement is. It's, like, it's bad. So can you just define that, please? Subject-object. The beer that I drink, right? Not the drink that I beer.

41:49Right. Because it's interesting. It almost feels like there is just an entire way of processing and delivering information as a human being that we do not understand. there is something missing. I mean, for me, like, it's very good at summarizing, but when it responds, it responds in the, in really trite and repetitive ways. So it'll like, you'll get a paper that summarizes a bunch of literature at length very effectively. And then responds by saying, well, you know, this person said this, that is doubtful. They should say more to support that, you know, which is basically saying nothing. Right.

42:26And that's pretty common it also does lists it formats things in kind of like a list and even if like make it look less like a list the paper still reads like a list oh because someone has asked give me a few thoughts on x yeah yeah yeah that's very depressing what about you things like the introductions you get um you'll get this is a interesting and complex question that philosophers of our students. And this is one of the things we shout at students not to write from first year, and then you'll get this garbage right back at you. And then at the end, it'll be, oh, overall, this is a complicated and difficult question, with many nuances.

43:12It's a world of contrasts. One of the things we tell them, don't ever fucking do this. This is terrible. And right back at you, in perfect English, the sort of English that you'd expect a really good student might have written, but clearly they can't be a good student because otherwise they've listened to our fucking instruction i also i had some papers that i suspected were chat gpt this year but they were already failing so i didn't okay yeah i didn't think it was worth it to pursue them you know as a plagiarism or chat gpt case so it's never good papers then it's never like an eight like a first no absolutely not so i think that part of what goes on is you can get a passing grade with the chat gpt paper sometimes in the first couple years when the papers are shorter and we're not expecting as much but then when you move into the what we call honors level here which is like upper level classes in the u.s like third and fourth year i got a first to have a wrist with Oh, no.

44:15Yeah, exactly. Great. Well done. Well done. You would not have gotten it with ChatGPT because you get dropped in these classes where we expect you to have gained writing skills, minimal ones, in your first two years. And then we're going to build on that and have you do more complicated stuff. And ChatGPT doesn't build on that, right? It just stays where it was. So you go from writing kind of C-grade passing paper to C or F. grade paper. And it's also more obvious because the papers are longer. And ChatGPT can write long text, but it gets very repetitive and noticeably repetitive, right? And so you're kind of lost.

44:56Like you haven't done the work of figuring out how to write on your own. And the tool that you've been using is not up to the task that you're now presented with. And so I think I I have seen a few papers that I was suspicious of, but the papers that I was certain of were ones that were like senior theses. Very clearly a person just had no way of writing. That's insane at that stage. Yeah. I mean, it's bonkers. I mean, one of the things that we get told about is like, oh, students have got to learn how to use, you know, AI and large language models, plagiarism machines responsibly and in a kind of positive way.

45:32Well, if they're using them in a way that means they don't learn how to write, then it's not positive, is it? Yeah, it's fucking hard to write a good essay. Yes, it is fucking hard to write. That's why we practice. That's why we have editors. That's why we do this collaboratively. If you're using this as a sort of, oh, I don't know how to write, well, tough shit. You're never going to know how to write. That doesn't seem to be a positive use of any of this. Well, that's the thing. Writing is also reading. The consumption of information and then bouncing the ideas off of your brain, allegedly. Yeah, I worry about, Like, because ChatGPT is good at summarizing.

46:07So I worry that one of the uses people will think, ah, this is a pretty good use for it, is summarizing the paper that they're supposed to read. And it will do that effectively enough for them to discuss it in class if they're willing to be. Yeah. Right. But they're not going to pick up a lot of the nuances and a lot of the kind of like stylistic ways of presenting ideas that you get when you actually do the reading. and it's it's so frustrating as well because like for this for example i've just got to printing off things i don't read pdfs anymore because i feel like you do need to focus yeah there's some evidence that reading physical copies makes you engage more sorry i'm very old-fashioned i guess but no it's true though but also reading that i wouldn't have really on a pdf i wouldn't have given it as much attention but also going through this paper you could see what you were doing Like you could see that you were lining up, here are the qualities that we use to judge bullshit.

47:03But also, summarizing a paper does not actually give you the argument. It gives you an answer. So what do you actually want students to do instead? Because I don't think there's any reason to use ChatGPT for these reasons. It doesn't seem to do anything that's useful for them. I don't have, no, I don't actually have any use for ChatGPT that I can put to my students and say, here's what I think you should use it. we are like kind of developing strategies for keeping them from using it. So like building directly on what you're saying, like in my class next year, I'm going to have the students do regular assignments, which are argument summaries and not paper summaries.

47:44So the idea is they have to read the paper, find an argument, and tell me what are the premises, what's the conclusion. And that's something that ChatGPT is not good at, right? But it's also something that will give them critical reading skills, which is what I want to do. Right. So, yeah, I think that I've mostly been thinking about ways to keep them from relying on it, because I think that often if they rely on it, they'll put themselves in a worse position. Yeah. When it comes to future work, they won't develop the skills that they're going to need and the skills that we tell them and their parents they're going to get with their college degree.

48:22Right. it almost feels like we need more deliberacy in university education because i was not taught to write i just did a lot of it until i got good enough grades and daniel chandler great mentor but i've had tons of them and it almost feels like we need classes where it's like okay no computer for this one i'm going to print this paper out and you're going to underline the things that are important and talk to me about almost feels like we need to rebuild this because yes, we shouldn't be using chat GPT to half us our essays, but at the same time, human beings are lazy. Yeah. I mean, for me, I also prefer to read off the computer, but I often read PDFs because I'm terrible at keeping files, right?

49:06Physical, like, you know, I'm not going to keep a giant file drawer with all the papers that I've read and then written my liner notes in. You guys can see in my office, they're just piled around. Like, you can't see this end. That's academia. Yeah, but I just have piles of paper with empty coffee bugs everywhere that the camera is not facing. But it's the terrible system. So at least on my computer, if I'm like, oh, I read that paper like a year ago, what did I think? I can click on it and see my own notes. And I do think that there's something to keeping those records and kind of actively reading in that way.

49:40I don't know how I ended this without telling you how to make students do that. No, you started with the correct answer, which is don't use chat GPT. Yeah. I actually, I've got a certain amount of sympathy with like, just keep writing until you get good at it. But I realize as a lecturer, that can't be my official position. And I certainly think that it's the case that certainly Glasgow has got better over the last few years about going, oh, actually, you do like we do need to give you some kind of structuring and some buttressing on here's how to write academically. Here's how to do research.

50:11And I think that's all to the good. it's worth saying this started happening well before chat gpt started pissing all over our doorstep so they don't get to claim that as being a benefit there was the whole wikipedia panic when i was in school yeah yeah the thing about wikipedia right it's like i used to say this to my students actually one of the best resources it's absolutely fine as a starting point for research yeah absolutely no problem with it whatsoever but if you're turning in an honors level essay i want you to go and read the fucking things it's referencing yeah that's right um yeah I think these things are often great as sources.

50:43My worry about ChatGPT is that it's not great as a source. It's just, we've been saying it often gets things wrong and it often will make up sources, whereas Wikipedia will never do that. There are some famous hoaxes. Yeah, it gets edited out fast. They get caught, yeah. Joe, have you got any positive things to say about ChatGPT? Positive things to say about it. Big fan. So I know some people who have used these kinds of things productively not in ways that our students would but I know some mathematicians who have been using it and to do sort of informal proofs and things like that and it does still bullshit and it bullshits very convincingly which makes it very difficult to use for this kind of purpose but it can do some interesting and cool things yeah I think some people in that sort of field have found useful and also we've mentioned this before Or if you want ChatGPT to write you a bibliography, if you've got a bibliography in one style, tell it to put something into a different one, then it's good for that.

51:45And it's good for coding doing certain things. I also think, I don't know, I'm not sure how I feel about what I'm about to say. Perfect. Yeah, I'm going for it. It is a somewhat positive thing maybe for ChatGPT, which is that we often have students who have really interesting ideas and well-thought-out arguments, but for whom English isn't their first language and the actual writing is kind of rough and you have to like push through reading it to get the good idea which is often really there and quite you know creative and insightful and so I do wonder if there's a way to use it so it just moves off the edges of this kind of thing but I worry that if you tell students to do that they'll just first if they can develop the language skills they often get really good by the end Yeah, what are you going to say, James?

52:35I want to say, yeah, you can see me getting agitated. I think Mike's correct about that this is a kind of possible use, but I think this, and this is why I'm getting visibly agitated here, that students either need to or feel they need to use this speaks to a deeper issue, right? To a social issue, to a political issue, to an issue about how universities work. If a student is having problems with English, then there's a number of explanations or a number of responses. One response is that Glasgow is an English teacher at university, if someone's English isn't good enough to be taking a degree, then plausibly they shouldn't have been let in, and why have they been let in?

53:08Well, because of money. Or alternatively, if someone's having problems with English for whatever reason at all, there should be support here. There should be tutors. There should be people who can help with English. But again, that will cost university money, so of course that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen anywhere. It doesn't have anywhere to the extent it would have to happen in order for this to be general policy. Yeah, I think it could be better, but I do think that universities often have like a writing center or a tutoring center that you can send students to. But they don't have the sort of spread that would be needed or the staff that would be needed for this to be, instead of using ChatGPT to sound the edges off.

53:48Yeah, I think my... To, for example, talk through with your supervisor. My worry especially would be that, this is my first year here at Glasgow, but I think they probably have a good writing center. Universities I've been at in the past, I felt very confident sending students to the writing center when they have these problems. But I think James is completely right that we don't want the universities to see this as a way to get rid of the writing center. And that's 100 % a risk given the financial problems that universities are facing. And maybe they're already not writing centers much like given the quality of papers.

54:25But they're often good. I think another thing as far as this is like a social problem is that when grading, I myself try to grade in terms of like the ideas and argument. This is philosophy and not the quality of the age. Right. But not everybody does that. So I kind of think that another part of this is figuring out how we want to evaluate the students and what we want to privilege in that evaluation. Yeah, sure. So then again, that becomes a problem about what people are checking for, not let's take this arse backwards approach to marking, which is like, how fancy is your English? Ah, fancy English is good English, have an A, but rather we should be kind of checking for different things.

55:05So again, the blame lies differently in that case, but it still becomes a question that's not solved technologically. Yeah. Almost feels like large language models are taking advantage of a certain kind of organizational failure. Oh, yes. What an idea. Yeah. Crazy that the tech industry manipulating a part of society. I have a kind of related tangent here, which is like, what are the use cases that OpenAI was expecting but didn't want to emphasize? Because for everybody in university, as soon as this came out, the first thought was students are going to use this to cheat. And certainly like the people in OpenAI went to college.

55:45Right. And that's what I hear about them. So they must know. Will Sam Altman drop down. Yeah, I'm sure he really understands the value of a secondary. He's like, I've got to write all these fucking essays. Anyway, maybe he was thinking I would have loved to have a computer write my essays. I'll devote my life. But I mean, I'm sure that they like recognize these bad use cases, right? But they're doing nothing to mitigate them as far as I can see. And like another one that's very related is like, you know, I'm sure you've heard of this, Ed, phishing, right? A lot of corporations get attacked and get hacked, not by someone cleverly figuring out a back door to their system, but by somebody sending in social engineering.

56:27Yeah. Asking for the password to somebody else. And one of the biggest barriers to that is that a lot of the people who are engaging in phishing aren't from the same country as the company they're targeting. Right. So they're not able to write a convincing email or make a phone call that sounds like that person's supervisor. But with a tool like this, you could 100 % write that email, right? It's going to make it a lot easier for these kinds of illicit schemes to work. There has been a marked increase according to CNBC, which we just brought up. It's a 1 ,265 % increase in malicious phishing email since the launch of ChatGPT.

57:04Great start. I mean, if I could have thought of that. Imagine what a criminal could do. Right. But also, weren't the people at OpenAI thinking about that? They don't care. Yeah. We've all seen Jurassic Park, right? They were so busy thinking about what they could do, they never thought about whether they should. Yeah, this is the kind of problem with the move fast and break things mentality. Like, they're obvious, I mean, I think I might be the only person who was raised in the US, but we had future problem solvers, where you think about a future problem and what bad consequences there could be of some technology and how to solve them, usually through social cues.

57:41If I could do that in fifth grade, I would expect these people to have thought through some of the bad consequences of the technology they're putting out and you know some of those are cheating on tests and they don't seem to have worried about that yeah and another one is phishing they don't seem to have worried about that you know and by using algorithms right so yeah this again is a um you know it comes no surprise to you Edward it turns out so with a lot of the facial recognition systems they were incredibly racist they were going back to Microsoft's Kinect they could not see black Yeah, yeah, yeah.

58:14And kind of CCTV stuff that basically just sort of, unless it was presented with a blindingly white Caucasian, went, I don't know, right? But like, the sort of stuff where these like language models are trained on certain sets of data and they're trained on certain assumptions and, you know, like shitting shit out, right? And particularly if people think that it's actually doing any kind of thinking and if they kind of cargo cult it, we again get a kind of social problem, multiplied by technology feeding back into a social problem right and it's the sorry these guys have heard me whinge about it so much i love it year or so but i'm profoundly skeptical of technology's ability to solve anything unless we know exactly the respect in which we want to solve it and how that technology is going to be applied um you know like sure experiment with bringing back dinosaurs but but like don't tell me that it's going to save the healthcare system unless you can demonstrate it to me step by step how that big old T-Rex ran around on Isla Nublaid is going to save anything.

59:17And they just tried to blind people. Actually, bringing back dinosaurs would be just good in itself. That would be great. Yeah, all right. This isn't the best example, but I already had Jeff Goldblum in my head. I had to go to Jurassic Park, for example. Fellas, this has been such a pleasure. Oh, right. Have we had it? Don't put that in the recording. I'm sorry. That's fine. Nah, it's fine. We won't edit it in post. and you will give us your names i'm mike hicks but my papers are written by michael townsend hicks and i'm a lecturer at the university of glasgow my website is townsendhicks it'll be in the podcast profile don't you worry you'll get that right just plug in my like your stuff my name is joe slater i'm a university lecturer in moral and political philosophy at glasgow uh i'm james humphries i'm a lecturer in political theory at the university of glasgow and even if I wanted to or couldn't give you my website because I don't have one fuck you everyone you've been listening to Better Offline thank you so much for listening everyone guys thank you for joining me thanks for having us cheers

1:00:29thank you for listening to Better Offline the editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Ossowski you can check out more of his music and audio projects at matasowski.com, M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I.com. You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:01:34Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. Every day has a to-do list, but adding Enjoy Velveeta to yours can help you knock out the rest of it. Velveeta breakfast biscuits are a tasty and convenient breakfast option when paired with low-fat yogurt and fruit that provides steady energy all morning. while Belvita Energy Snack Bites give you the perfect mid-morning refuel. Best part? They both taste great.

1:02:11So make the most out of your morning with a bite of Belvita. Pick up a pack of Belvita at your local store today. Are you a business owner or entrepreneur in need of a fast funding solution? Amerifactors provides fast capital. Call today for a free no-obligation quote at 800-884-FUND. Startups, rapid growth stage, or struggling, even with less than perfect credit, including bankruptcies. In business for over 34 years, thousands of satisfied clients have transformed their cash flow with Amerifactors. Call Amerifactors today at 800-884-FUND. That's 800-884-3863. Or visit Amerifactors.com. This is an iHeart Podcast.