The Insanity of the Markets with Ben & Emil

31:00I just, I get at some point, this has to go poorly. I mean, it's probably already getting poorly, going poorly with the amount of fucking money going into these random stocks, but it just feels like it's setting everyone up at once to get fucked again and again and again. Couple things. Go on. I remember the most frustrated I was, just piggybacking off the nebulous shareholders. There was a similar kind of fanfare all around quantum computing stocks last year. And I, my enterprising dumbass, fought the trend and got short some of them just a couple weeks too early, right before the final blow-off top.

31:44And I was getting, I was just getting. just sitting around oh man I was getting coming up with slurs for quantum computers oh man oh yeah I was I was getting I was turning racist I was getting all kinds of anger because I was just getting my ass blown out and then which was very funny I mean we're looking at these companies probably not for that this company is like it sold one computer in 2025 or something and it's just blasting off it booked like two six million dollars in revenues for the whole year and the market cap was like 25 billion. And they're like, see guys, quantum is the future. I think we're going to the moon with this one.

32:25But then they eventually petered out and have dropped considerably. But now it's funny because now all of the energy guys, the nuclear energy guys are trying to rally the energy sector. And they're all tweeting like, they're trying to force the meme, essentially, of being like... I've seen that fail in crypto so many times. Yeah. But to answer your question, of what's going to happen, how's this going to end, people are going to get hurt, I think what could be the catalyst is, and this goes back to Twitter being the hive mind, and when we talk about looking for catalysts and reasons, I think the narrative is going to start going toward Koreans again in Korea and these retail traders over there that are just going nuts.

33:22I saw a translated Korean tweet the other day that from someone over there who said, you guys don't understand. It's gotten so insane over here. The like old lady who's checking you out. I saw the grandma tweet earlier is looking at stock charts. So I think that if and when we see... That's exactly what happened with Enron. It's the same thing. I think that when and if we get a significant pullback on the Korean index, on the COSPI, we will see a lot of people talking about contagion. And especially in the higher held names that Korean... The number one retail ones like Soxel and SanDisk and all that stuff.

34:09But yeah, there's nothing quite like that pain of just going, of thinking, why the fuck didn't I just buy and chase and ride the trend? I could be sitting on hundreds of thousands, if not maybe a couple million dollars from a modest position if I just, and they just, just when you think I can't chase it, it's at$800 a share, I can't chase it. Then it's at a thousand. Then it's at$1 ,100. Then it's at$1 ,400. I think today it hit$1 ,500 a share, this sanded. Jesus fucking Christ. And Micron is just, they're just going parabolic. And somewhere there's some kid in Korea just slurping on bibimbap, and I'm going, is that what it is, bulgogi?

34:58Bibimbap and bulgogi, and he's going like, hot damn, I can take my girlfriend out or boyfriend. You know, it was, it's a, we live, we live in the 21st century. We're progressive. And I'm over here just going, God damn, that Korean guy out there on the other side of this trade. Cause I am short a little bit of Soxel and SMH, but. And you like Bibimbap. I love Bibimbap. I can't, can't we have a, wouldn't that be beautiful if the Korean boy makes his money on the long side and then I, the, his American counterparty makes money on the short side. Let's just hope he gets out in time and it all works out for you.

35:34That's exactly right. And I hope the Korean grocery vegetable lady out there, God, I hope she brings the register. That's who I hope is really ringing the register. Yeah. But it's the modern day shoe shiner. It's the Korean vegetable lady. It's just such a bad idea. In the past, I said I bought some S &P 500 and people got mad at me. And it was like, I did it once as a bid for a guest that I just joked about it with. I live in cash for many reasons that I won't go into. it's mostly mostly to do with like just how i grew up like stocks have always scared me it's why i don't trust them and it's one of the things my dad told me was like don't bet with fear like don't like the best thing to do is nothing if you're scared and i actually think it's a good rule in general it just doesn't it feels like the internet has made everything worse you said it it is better i don't know if i agree like when i first got to america 2008 i remember there were like investor newsletters there were like 70 of them oh yeah that was a big one too some crusty old man would send you his thoughts every week and you pay him 1500 a month for some reason and i assume you did well it wasn't 2008 wasn't really a great year for stocks for some reason and it's just like now it's just however many anonymous or pseudonymous insane people you follow and which one of them successfully cons enough people into being insane too.

37:05Yeah. And they used to have a strategy back then where they would say you had a thousand subscribers to your newsletter. You would send one pick to a hundred people, one to another hundred people, one, and you would divvy them up. And then the people who got the losers were obviously like, well, fuck this guy. The people who got the winners were like, damn, this guy's awesome. And I'm butchering this, but basically they would keep focusing on their winner subscribers and build their trust and build their rapport with that group. And they just kind of repeated that multiple times until they had 5 ,000 people who just trust them and will blindly follow them into any...

37:51I was one of those people. I remember... God damn it, man. I forgot the name of it. It was some stupid name. I don't know. But I remember the name of the company, SYNCOR, and the ticker symbol was SYNC. And I bought it in 2010 because they had had some previous winners that went up like 2 ,000%. And I thought, man, I slept on that last one. I slept on the one before because I didn't trust this group, but they seem to be the hot group right now. Wouldn't you know it? When I bought the one that they suggested, the next one, that was when their hot streak came to a grinding halt. And I remember being, I bought this thing right before earnings with all of my money that I had in my trading account, which was like 18 grand or something.

38:37And the stock got cut in half immediately after earnings. And I was like, I was at my, I've told this story on the show where I was at my job that I hated, like despised. I'd worked there for nine months and I saw, oh, basically just like nine months of my entire job here has just been erased. I've essentially been working for free. And I went and I sat in the bathroom and I just sat there and I took out my phone and I took out the calculator and I did the math on, I included gas because I had to commute every day and taxes. And I was like, it's going to take me, i don't know eight months just to make back what i just lost on that one trade i fucking and there was no air conditioning in the building and it was always like 85 degrees in there every day and i had a co-worker who had a chronic uh like throat clearing thing so i just go back to my desk and this guy's just going like every 10 seconds oh brother those would become a serial killer oh i was i was like i'm the you didn't have it back then but i wanted to become the joker i mean that's what you're you're joking but that's what you did have the joker back then oh yeah well not like that like i'm gonna be had yet to be created yeah but that's what's so scary we're joking but there is now uh basically like hundreds of thousands of these people strewn across society, just getting hosed on stocks, losing their hard-earned money.

40:09Or in some cases making some. In some cases, becoming insane. There was a stock that I talked about on our show. It is called Bloom Energy. The ticker symbol is B-E. And Ed, I famously owned this in the teens, and I sold it. and it's now it like christ man yeah you see that chart it's up to like 280 dollars a share well what i also see is the receipt i have for how much oracle is paying them and oh yeah if oracle is the announced thing oh no i'm looking at the actual receipt oh from internal oracle and let me tell you something um it's only for stargate abilene so i mean long term you'll be right but that's the thing none of this matters yeah like things being bad now doesn't matter as long as the insane people have led it this all sounds like enron plus crypto it's terrifying to me

41:19Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. On Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Who's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation? To the group? The Yardbirds, right? That's the name? The Harvard Yardbirds. But they're open to change.

41:57Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

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43:13The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight reel. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow TimboSliceLife12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor IV. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

43:46Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. And he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on Office Blue, 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to wave at her. What?

44:08Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to The Clifford Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

44:23one of the reasons i don't engage with stocks is what you're talking about this sense of like i would go insane if i was looking at these numbers every day and they mattered like if if i was like i'm gonna lose money because something happened because the way i'm not gonna make money because i sold it too soon right like all of that sounds horrible to me it's uh yeah it sucks shit sometimes but what I was going to say, someone actually left a comment recently. I forgot where, but they said that they bought that Bloom Energy stock when I talked about it. And they're like, I'm up 300%. Thanks, Ben.

44:57Wow. And I'm like, cool, dude. Just enjoy yourself. Remember to pay yourself and not just let it sit there. Do your listeners get mad at you? Do you give stock advice? I know you talk about your own trading. Good. I talk about my own trades, but I have been sure to remind people that none of this... I mean, people know by now. And talk about it in entertainment purposes of like, here's how you got lost. Never you should buy this or any of that. Yeah. I have said, I really like this for the following reasons kind of thing. Yeah. I get people who email me and message me all the time being like, how do I short this?

45:35How do I short this? And I always say, I don't know. Yeah. Like, I just like, I don't know. I don't give financial advice. I can't tell you how to do it. Put cash in a box under your bed. I mean, but that's the thing. You know, if it was that easy, everyone would be millionaires. I think as we've been talking about this entire time, the irrationality of all of it is like impossible to account for. Someone like Ben has a lot of experience with it, so he has a better shot. But like, you know, I was telling Ben when all those permaboles were calling for a big crash because of all of these factors.

46:14I was like, I believe them. I know that they're idiots.

46:20I'm looking at everything going, yeah, how the fuck is everything not just taking a nosedive? It's a lot of factors. It feels like the market doesn't want it to. Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. I think they're going to do anything they can to keep the ownership class satisfied and keep the market propped up for them and continuing to grow. Yeah, it's momentum. It's just the passive investing and all that cash that just gets forced into the system week after week, day after day. It's a lot of different factors. It doesn't matter until it suddenly matters. And everybody can collectively on Twitter decide why and then they give it a couple weeks and they've now processed it.

47:11And now it's like, well, now we've, whew, what used to take months to process information and to process catalysts now takes weeks, if not days, if not hours sometimes. So the thing I've been enjoying right now is everyone's talking about CPUs instead of GPUs. Yeah, CPUs are so back. They're the hottest thing right now. AMD is going to make all this CPU revenue. And it's like, they have forgotten that like eight months ago, nine months ago, AMD promised to sell 10 % of its stock to OpenAI. Never happened. Broadcom 10 gigawatts never happened. Broadcom is up now because the market is slightly deciding that they kind of don't like NVIDIA.

47:56It just feels like being tortured looking at this stuff and thinking about it from the perspective of the logical. It doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It just means that, well, I mean, I'm not wrong because I'm not investing in the market. You're bringing too much logic into this. That's the problem. You're thinking too rationally about it. And yeah, I think it's all going to get absorbed and pivot. If the whole AI thing goes bust, I don't think we're even going to see this bubble bursting that everyone's expecting. Everyone's just going to start being like, robotics. Robotics is what that's what it all is now.

48:38And we're all heavily invested in that. The future's that. And we're all just going to keep going up. Robotics is going to be the next theme, I think. You think that's where they go off to right eye? I think that there's you can put your ear to the ground. Robotics and maybe space. With finance, Twitter, robotics are... Robotics was already pretty hot earlier this year and last year. But then it kind of gave way to the memory trade and the bottleneck trade. And now you're going to be seeing, I think, a return to the robotics trade and the physical AI thing. And of course, yeah, you've got the big IPOs coming with fucking SpaceX and...

49:18He's going to put a million people on Mars, don't you understand? He's going to put a million people on Mars. But the thing is, here's the thing. With that, with the big IPOs, the Anthropics, the Open AIs, I don't think those two go public. I don't think, I think that their S1 is going to look like a dog's dinner on Thanksgiving and then it's an arsehole on the other way. Because the thing is, even in an illogical market, we've yet to see a big IPO showing its dirty business. We've yet to see somebody really showing how bad things are. You'll notice the XAI's IPO, they've hidden that documentation from the world.

49:56Like they don't want - Well, and it's now fully absorbed in SpaceX too. Insane. I'm sorry I called it XAI it's SpaceX now it's SpaceX now $250 billion value it's just like you're borrowing from Peter to pay Elon you're borrowing from Elon to pay Elon but also the other thing is how is there enough money for this because there was like $47 billion of IPOs in 2025 they want to have $50 billion for Anthropic $50 billion for SpaceX $50 billion for OpenAI how? You just keep trading back and forth. That money needs to cut people's stocks. SpaceX buys Tesla Cybertrucks and it's all just Oh, oh, oh. I just mean the stock themselves.

50:48Anyway. Probably what you'll see, ironically, I mean, a lot of... A couple things, again. A lot of people start to talk about, the Anthropic or the SpaceX or the whatever IPO is going to mark the top of the market. But then when you put that out there as a narrative, the more and more you put it out there, the more and more people think the same thing. But then when everybody's thinking that same thing, it ain't going to fucking happen. Because it pisses me off that it wouldn't happen. Actually, it's like, it's the fucking Princess Bride poison goblet scene. It's just, well, actually, a smart man would think that the market would go down, but the wise man would know that the smart man thinks that it would go down.

51:36So actually it would not. But there is a possibility that money comes out of the other momentum stocks like SanDisk, like Micron, like AMD, etc. So people would dump them. It's possible that we might get a rotation like that, yeah. But real fast, I saw a tweet last night from a guy who has 188 ,000 followers. I retweeted it. I quote retweeted it because it was too fucking funny. He goes, it was something like, boy, I can't wait until Tesla starts sending Optimus robots into space. It's going to be so good for Tesla. And I'm like, hold on, wait, do you even, and he hosts like a Tesla centric podcast.

52:18It's like, my guy, who is buying the Optimus robots from Tesla? number one, and then why are they being blasted into space? What are they doing out there? That's the equivalent of being like, boy, Tesla's going to make a bunch of cars and then blast them into space. Well, they're going to go build our little Mars civilization for us. But who's paying for that? Oh my God, dude. Is Blackstone buying the fucking robots and then going, now send them to Mars. It's going to be good for Tesla. But this is, you know, we talk about this all the time too. There's a bunch of people who have, the people who have hit on these things then develop their own psychosis where you have these Tesla people who have made a lot of money and now cannot see what's really happening.

53:02Which I understand. Oh, yeah. Because if I was a guy, I am, but if I was a guy who made, some of these retail guys truly have made 10, 20 million dollars. Oh, I fully would be a psycho. I'd be a psycho. I'd be like, oh no, I would be. If I'd made like 10 million dollars off of some insane trade I read on Twitter, I would begin to lose my grip on reality. I wouldn't be able. And I'd think that the CEO was omniscient and I would follow him to the ends of the earth. You don't get it. This whole time he was making outrageous claims and no one believed him. Right. But the market eventually caught up and he's doing the same thing now and you just don't get it, do you?

53:41I love that people are finally kind of, I mean, they've done it multiple times, but they're rightfully starting to call out Kathy Wood in the arc. Oh, you mean the dumbest? What's her returns like? Uh, now not good, but yeah. Like the whole thing was paying in 2021, right? Yeah. She was, she, she made one big right call, which was, they famously said, we think Tesla is undervalued when it was at like, I don't know, a hundred billion, 90 billion market cap or something like that. And that was right before it skyrocketed straight to a trillion. So they made well over 10 X on their, on their thing.

54:21And everybody was like, boy, this Kathy Wood lady's really, for a lady, she's got the Midas touch. And then they were also calling for cyber cabs and autonomous stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you hear that that's going to be a$34 trillion industry by 2030? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, of course. And even though Waymo currently has Tesla completely licked, just you wait. because pretty soon I have a feeling that Elon Musk is going to make millions of these cyber cabs and Optimus robots are going to be building the cyber cabs. And they're only going to cost$30 ,000. And get this, Elon's going to blast the cyber cabs into space, which is going to be good for Tesla stock.

55:06Because they're going to be building all those cars, which is going to be revenue for them. And then they send them into space on SpaceX rockets, which is good revenue for SpaceX. You fucking idiot. I also think that Musk himself, this is an underrated success that Musk has had, though I don't think he did it with intention. The Twitter algorithm is evil. And I looked for that AXTI stock, and now I've just got four or five different psychopaths being like, this is the future. This is the future. I'm going to buy the lasers. The lasers will be the biggest stock I've ever seen. Yum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, once you click one cash tag, as they call them, you are then inundated with all kinds of pumping tweets.

55:57But yeah, it's frustrating. How much of that do you think is bots and how much do you think it is organic? I think that they've gotten decent at the bots. It used to be when you click a cash tag of any kind, you would just get spam posts for Discord rooms. but I think that they've started to clamp down on that. It's frustrating because you'll see what it's musical chairs because me as a momentum trader, again, I'm like, I don't want to, I'm not here to judge. What's a momentum trader? Sorry. Just riding the trend. Like, okay, if a correct thing of me to have done, but I didn't do would have been to recognize that momentum is currently focused on memory stocks.

56:43and just buy the dips on those and get out. Buy the dips, get out. And so I try to bring that to my next trades. Okay, I'm not going to judge. I'm just going to be like, okay, what stocks have momentum? What sectors, whatever has momentum, I'm just going to try to get in and get out. But just my luck, sometimes you buy the one that just doesn't fucking work. And that's scary enough to keep me from getting on that train. It's just a fucking never-ending thing that makes you just want to fucking die. That's the thing. I invest in words. What's that? I invest in words, and no one can see what I'm doing, like a DreamWorks-style thing, but my face isn't doing it anymore.

57:25It's just, I feel like this will only end in pain for this cycle and the next and the next and the next because gravity exists. Something will send this to hell. Perhaps it won't be something logical, but it's going to be something. Such as the fact that they're... Look at software stocks. Software stocks, I mean, it's kind of a conundrum because it was AI that brought down the software stocks, but for the longest time, they were untouchable and impossible to defeat, and they were free cash flow printing machines, but they've all been cut by 60%, 70%. So it's entirely likely and probably inevitable that the same fate will meet a lot of these high flyers right now.

58:06It's just a question of when. Yeah, but I think Ed is talking about broadly the entire market, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The experience of we have a market that is somewhat dictated by Twitter psychopaths is really bad. Yeah. It's not good. Fundamentals are totally out the window. You could make an argument for, well, hey, that's just the new normal now. and you kind of have to throw caution out the window if you want to try to make money at it, which is not a reassuring thing and it's not a good thing. It just is what it is. I'm doing the Alex Karp hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking, God, I can't stand that.

58:50Yeah. Oh, geez. I remember following that at five bucks and people were like, you don't understand. And I just was like, I don't know. Fuck, I don't even understand what this company does. Palantir, get the fuck out of here. year fucking god yeah i i think the future should be mass censorship i don't think we should have cnbc able to talk about stocks anymore i don't think like just like shut down or like you can't talk about stocks online anymore no i don't think there's any fixing this other than massive amounts of pain and the fact they want to move to semi-annual earnings is fucking bonkers that is the craziest move in the world.

59:3124-7 trading plus six-month earnings is that will actually destroy the markets in ways that I'm not sure people could fully conceptualize. Because it would just be like, everything will be casino now. Except no, that's an insult to my beautiful slot machines. Which are fair and have real odds. Unlike these scurrilous markets run by pigs and vagabonds. And at least with the slot machines, you have those fun sounds that are stimulating. I will fully admit there have been times that I've been very anxious in my life where I've just listened to casino sounds. I found them very relaxing. It is very.

1:00:15I have the same thing. I remember as a kid going to Harris Casino in Laughlin with my family for vacation and walking through that casino floor, I was like, this sounds so nice and good, but I don't know why. It's just so pleasing. The ding, ding, ding. It's got to be intentional. Of course. They've figured it out. They're pumping in oxygen, so you're feeling good. It just feels good. They've figured out the perfect phonic. I remember loving the bacon that I had at that Harrah's breakfast buffet. Oh, the buffets. The buffets in casinos are just fucking amazing. It's like, hey, you might kill yourself because you just lost everything, but the least we could do is give you some really top shelf bacon.

1:01:01That was back then. I don't know if it's any good now, but... It's still good, thank you. I've sucked. I will not hear Vegas slant here. All right, fellas, I'm going to wrap it here. Where can people find you? Ben and Emile Show. If you just Google the Ben and Emile Show, you go on YouTube, you go on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Instagram, Twitter, you know, BenAndMealShow.com. We do our weekly show and then we also do some fun stuff like where we famously took acid and went to the mall or we took acid and went to a train festival. You'll find it all at our YouTube page and Instagram stuff. It's all there.

1:01:40We love taking the piss out of this whole racket. And I do too. Listeners, you'll have a monologue. I apologize that I missed last week. My life has been crazy, but I really appreciate you being patient with me and have another monologue and have some fun guests coming up. Thank you as ever for listening.

1:02:05Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Ossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I.com You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:03:11We'll be right back.

1:03:19Guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines.

1:03:59And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow TimboSliceLife12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor IV, and on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

1:04:34What? Quarterback on office blue, 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to wave at her. What?

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